Bad reaction to the big 3, is HT all that's left for me?

[psychic]

Well, that's my whole point - is that these shampoos won't really do much. They might help a little if they're used in conjunction with Fin and Minox, but by themselves...

Have you tried Saw Palmetto? It's supposed to be the same as Fin but it's "natural".

Onion juice (on the scalp) is supposed to help with hair loss.

I've heard about Saw soon after getting the horrible side effects with fin. And I was so horrified I didn't want to touch anything that works the same way as fin whether it's natural or not.

Perhaps I should give it a try.

Thanks

[VictimOfDHT]

Well, that's my whole point - is that these shampoos won't really do much. They might help a little if they're used in conjunction with Fin and Minox, but by themselves...

Have you tried Saw Palmetto? It's supposed to be the same as Fin but it's "natural".

Onion juice (on the scalp) is supposed to help with hair loss.

[psychic]

Well, I'm not against someone making money off others as long as their product delivers what it promises. But It's your money after all and you're free to do whatever you want with it. But still, that doesn't change the fact that most of these products and shampoos that claim to regrow hair are useless. I still don't think there's anything out there that can prevent baldness or give you a full head of hair again. I know many of these products say they use stimulants (caffeine, emu oil, biotin....) but I think there's been a lot of talk about these products here and on other forums but I haven't heard of any real success stories where people using these products ended up getting their hair back. I don't know. Are there ? I'd like to hear. Well, would you let me know if you have any success with the stuff you're using ? I still think most of these shampoos use Minox, or Ketokonazole (same stuff in Nizoral) but you're paying a lot more for their fancy versions of treatments. Has anyone here had any success with Emu oil, castor oil, caffeine....? I know these are some of the other ingredients they use.
Anyway, all I can say is good luck with whatever you're using but I'd be happy to hear how it goes.

Thanks!

To be honest, my gut feeling (but it's nothing more than that) is that some of those ingredients can be helpful in very small amounts, but they can't be relied upon to stop hairloss by themselves. And even if you combine a multitude of them like I'm trying to do by buying a couple of different shampoos and using them in rotation, I think that other things should be used as well as it's not enough.
The treatments that can be relied upon just by themselves, like fin are almost out of scope for me. Like I said before I'll go back to taking it maybe .25 once or twice a week. So that's why I'm supplementary stuff that may push me just a tad bit in the right direction.

[psychic]

A lot of guys just mix 3.5-4 grams of RU into a 60ml jug of minoxidil and go with that for a monthly batch...pretty easy really.

Sounds simple to make!
But I react badly to minoxidil, and I'm still a bit hesitant to use this for long term, until I hear more about it after it's applied for a longer time. Which is problematic because I can't afford to wait

[VictimOfDHT]

Well, I'm not against someone making money off others as long as their product delivers what it promises. But It's your money after all and you're free to do whatever you want with it. But still, that doesn't change the fact that most of these products and shampoos that claim to regrow hair are useless. I still don't think there's anything out there that can prevent baldness or give you a full head of hair again. I know many of these products say they use stimulants (caffeine, emu oil, biotin....) but I think there's been a lot of talk about these products here and on other forums but I haven't heard of any real success stories where people using these products ended up getting their hair back. I don't know. Are there ? I'd like to hear. Well, would you let me know if you have any success with the stuff you're using ? I still think most of these shampoos use Minox, or Ketokonazole (same stuff in Nizoral) but you're paying a lot more for their fancy versions of treatments. Has anyone here had any success with Emu oil, castor oil, caffeine....? I know these are some of the other ingredients they use.
Anyway, all I can say is good luck with whatever you're using but I'd be happy to hear how it goes.

[markusbdc]

Thanks for the suggestion.
The ingredent does seem promising, but the whole premise of becoming a scientist ordering stuff that gets warnings of "not for human consumption" and having a mini laboratory concocting materials looks unnerving.

I would expect at least a single even semi-commercial product to come out if it is indeed what is cracked up to be. Maybe I'm wrong in this assumption though.

A lot of guys just mix 3.5-4 grams of RU into a 60ml jug of minoxidil and go with that for a monthly batch...pretty easy really.

[psychic]

You're welcome.
I never actually used any of these shampoos myself. Only Minox and Nizoral as topical + Fin, and even tried Dutasteride for a few months.

I don't know but I think you're new to the world of hair loss and hair loss treatment. Most guys when they're new and still not well-informed they fall for these hair "regrowth" shampoos. If I weren't skeptic by nature I would've done the same too but I also believe in the "if it sounds too good to be true it probably is...". These scammers know that many of us are so desperate that we're willing to buy and try anything. They also know that most people don't do their research. And they know that advertising WORKS. I'm sorry to say but I don't think there's even one shampoo out there that can actually regrow hair or even stop baldness. There isn't anything that does that at the moment. Not even Minoxidil or Fin can do that 100% or anywhere near that. Some of these shampoos might say they have black tea or green tea or whatever the hell other tea or other herbal ingredients but while these things might be good for the hair, I don't think they can actually stop hair loss that's caused by MPB. If these shampoos worked people would kill for them. If you're going to try something I'd say try onion juice. It'll probably do a better job than all of these shampoos. And it only costs pennies.
I know you're probably thinking well, I'll just spend $50 or $60 a couple of times and give it a try. It's not a big amount of money. And that's all these guys (sellers of snake oils) need. That's how they make their money. I don't think there are many people who keep buying these products beyond a few times........because eventually they find out that they don't work. I'm not saying every single shampoo out there is a snake oil but again I can say that NONE will actually regrow your hair or even stop you from going bald by just using that shampoo. I don't care what any body says.

I am as desperate as every body else for some miracle shampoo that I can wash my hair with and end up with a full head of hair again but I know such shampoo only existed on "Married With Children". lol.

You say interesting things indeed.

I may be considered new, although I'm registered for this forum for a long time.
The reason is I got into this world about 8 years ago, started treatment, was horrified, stopped all treatments, went my own route of general health, had general success with it, that success stopped after a while as well and things started deteriorating quickly again, but then again I also strayed from this path of general health lately, so I might need to go back to it, perhaps that's all I'm missing, but I doubt it will hold for long anyway.

You're saying that even if I don't keep on buying these products that's all they need, and you are right 100%, only that I am not fazed by the fact this is all they need, I don't care so much what they need at all. And that's why that won't be a reason for me not to try it out. It's cheap for me, and if someone makes a living off of it, then fine. Some people waste money on stuff that not only contribute to another person's living but actually hurt other people, so I could be worse off

Please excuse the next paragraph, as it's a total digression from the main subject:
You're saying that people would kill for something that works, but from what I see on the internet in general (not just this forum), is that people don't want to go too far for things (then again one might say that it's because they are not convinced they will work, but then again they didn't even try, I'm not talking about marketed shampoos though), e.g. I've noticed many a time that some person would post about how abstaining from sexual pleasure (much less horrible than killing, right?) helped him stop hair loss, only to get replies that people prefer to lose than hair than stop masturbating, or give up on hot showers etc.
Given that reality, I don't think people would go as far as killing, but of course that's just a figure of speech, and I don't think you really meant that, but what you meant is that people would go far, but I wonder just how far will they really go.

The reason I gave this example is that my "golden age" i.e. the 3 years period that my hairloss halted completely were the years I practiced those habits (not for hairloss, mind you , I only noticed it in hindsight). Now, I'm not saying they are the cause, but saying they were at the same time, so it got me curious. At the minimum I think of trying them again, as I had other benefits as well during those times. I stopped when pressure in my life started increasing, I started lacking a bit in my self-discipline then like a tower of cards it all fell down

Anyways, just felt like sharing these things ^^. They don't relate to the main thread.

[VictimOfDHT]

You're welcome.
I never actually used any of these shampoos myself. Only Minox and Nizoral as topical + Fin, and even tried Dutasteride for a few months.

I don't know but I think you're new to the world of hair loss and hair loss treatment. Most guys when they're new and still not well-informed they fall for these hair "regrowth" shampoos. If I weren't skeptic by nature I would've done the same too but I also believe in the "if it sounds too good to be true it probably is...". These scammers know that many of us are so desperate that we're willing to buy and try anything. They also know that most people don't do their research. And they know that advertising WORKS. I'm sorry to say but I don't think there's even one shampoo out there that can actually regrow hair or even stop baldness. There isn't anything that does that at the moment. Not even Minoxidil or Fin can do that 100% or anywhere near that. Some of these shampoos might say they have black tea or green tea or whatever the hell other tea or other herbal ingredients but while these things might be good for the hair, I don't think they can actually stop hair loss that's caused by MPB. If these shampoos worked people would kill for them. If you're going to try something I'd say try onion juice. It'll probably do a better job than all of these shampoos. And it only costs pennies.
I know you're probably thinking well, I'll just spend $50 or $60 a couple of times and give it a try. It's not a big amount of money. And that's all these guys (sellers of snake oils) need. That's how they make their money. I don't think there are many people who keep buying these products beyond a few times........because eventually they find out that they don't work. I'm not saying every single shampoo out there is a snake oil but again I can say that NONE will actually regrow your hair or even stop you from going bald by just using that shampoo. I don't care what any body says.

I am as desperate as every body else for some miracle shampoo that I can wash my hair with and end up with a full head of hair again but I know such shampoo only existed on "Married With Children". lol.

[psychic]

I've been battling hair loss for more than one and half decades and have spent a lot of time on forums and read about all kinds of "treatments" including these fancy hair "regrowth" shampoos and all I can tell you is that most are nothing but snake oils. And for those VERY few that might work, I guarantee you that they have Minoxidil -or maybe Finasteride- in them. So, you're just buying fancy bottles of shampoo that use Minoxidil as their main ingredient for hair regrowth and you're paying a lot more for them. I'd say save your money. I've never bought anything other than Minoxidil -as topical treatment, and Fin. Everything else is most likely a snake oil. Nizoral never did anything for me. It never even helped with my dandruff even after using it for years.
I don't know anything about this "RU" stuff. I keep seeing this here and there but it looks like it's a headache to get.

Thanks for sharing your opinion VictimOfDHT!

I must say, none of these shampoos contain minoxidil, so you could say that they are just fancy shampoos
It's just that I haven't yet tried the route of going with more expensive shampoos than the cheap ones I get at the store which contain more harsh cleaning agents.

Admittedly, this doesn't mean it will help with hair loss, just that it something I didn't try yet. It might not do anything for me, like it didn't do anything for you.

But just like you minox and fin worked for you for a long time and those things wreaked havoc on my body, we all respond differently, so I'm at the stage of getting as much ideas as possible (albeit, I prefer to avoid snake oils, as they waste time) and trying them.

Those shampoos are one of those things that do not look like snake oil at first sight, because they contain ingredients that I keep seeing in people's posts. But of course they might end up as snake oil in the end

[VictimOfDHT]

I ordered 3 different kinds of hairloss shampoos, revita, regenepure NT and Neofollics.
Together with Nizoral, I'll try to do a rotation of all 4 shampoos, aiming for a sort of a shotgun approach.

Anyone ever tried doing this thing? It seems each shampoo has somewhat different ingredients which might or might not help with hairloss, however I assume they do not contain ingredients that are counter-productive for combatting hairloss so statistically speaking if I use all of them, and each one gets a use that is not too infrequently, they all will get a chance to work their charm.

Also, I'm going back to cold showers. It seems (but only vaguely, I admit), that the period where my hairloss didn't progress as much overlaps greatly with the period I did cold showers only.

I've been battling hair loss for more than one and half decades and have spent a lot of time on forums and read about all kinds of "treatments" including these fancy hair "regrowth" shampoos and all I can tell you is that most are nothing but snake oils. And for those VERY few that might work, I guarantee you that they have Minoxidil -or maybe Finasteride- in them. So, you're just buying fancy bottles of shampoo that use Minoxidil as their main ingredient for hair regrowth and you're paying a lot more for them. I'd say save your money. I've never bought anything other than Minoxidil -as topical treatment, and Fin. Everything else is most likely a snake oil. Nizoral never did anything for me. It never even helped with my dandruff even after using it for years.
I don't know anything about this "RU" stuff. I keep seeing this here and there but it looks like it's a headache to get.

[psychic]

I ordered 3 different kinds of hairloss shampoos, revita, regenepure NT and Neofollics.
Together with Nizoral, I'll try to do a rotation of all 4 shampoos, aiming for a sort of a shotgun approach.

Anyone ever tried doing this thing? It seems each shampoo has somewhat different ingredients which might or might not help with hairloss, however I assume they do not contain ingredients that are counter-productive for combatting hairloss so statistically speaking if I use all of them, and each one gets a use that is not too infrequently, they all will get a chance to work their charm.

Also, I'm going back to cold showers. It seems (but only vaguely, I admit), that the period where my hairloss didn't progress as much overlaps greatly with the period I did cold showers only.

[psychic]

You can start HTs any time but it does have disadvantages if you start too early however, it also has advantages too. I started my HTs when I had an almost full head of hair. My first 3 HTs were small/er ones (300-750 grafts). Then the fourth was 1700 or so. I still had a lot of native hair and you couldn't even tell I was getting all these HTs. Then I got the next HT, and then the next. The problem is that a HT is likely to cause the native existing hair to fall out from the shock. In my case, the first 3 HTs didn't cause any loss but after the 4th HT I started losing hair but the loss would occur after a year or so after an HT -I don't know why so late but this kept happening for the next 2 HTs. Here's where I'm at now - I HAVE hair, which IS the one and probably the biggest advantage of starting too early; that I NEVER was bald, although my crown is thinning rapidly now, which mean I'll probably get more HTs because I never had any there. My hair now (the transplanted area) is NOT anything it used to look before (it's just the nature of my hair being curly in the back but that's not the point). The disadvantage of starting too early is that the transplanted hairs might not be distributed evenly (due to the existing native hair). For me, even after 6 HTs I still see that some areas are a little thicker than others -not too bad or anything- and that's because of the fact that I still had a lot of native hair as mentioned, and also because some spots were thinning more than others, which is why the doctor was putting more grafts in there than in other areas (areas with less thinning). For someone who's completely bald or with little hair left, it will be much easier to place the grafts in an even and uniform pattern.

So, to sum it up, advantages of starting too early is that you can avoid going completely bald, EVER. Priceless to some people. People might not even know that you're actually going bald or that you're getting HTs.
Disadvantages : Once you start, you're almost on the hook in that you will have to keep getting more HTs in the future as the hair loss progresses. And again, in some people the shock from an HT might cause the native hair to fall out sooner or faster. They might tell you it will grow back but it might not. So, that's something to consider. And like I mentioned, chances are the grafts won't be placed evenly -if yo still have a lot of native hair- but then you can always get more HTs later to fill in the gaps.

Oh, and as for Replicell or whatever other crap (other companies) there used to be, they're all hot air. 4 or 5 years ago every body thought we would have a breakthrough in a couple of years. I think every body was saying '16 "IS THE YEAR" that we'd have a "cure" of some sort from these companies. Well,....I've said it before but I'll say it again, if any body is waiting for these companies then not only they, but their kids will be bald before these companies come up with something. So, don't put too much -if any- hope in that.

Lastly, NOT all doctors are the same. I wouldn't go by ishrs alone. There are some doctors that are much better than others and I'm sure many of the guys here have their own experiences and I think it's not hard to find the good ones depending on where you are.

Thanks for the interesting perspective regarding the pro and con of starting HTs early!

I'll take that into account!
I'm living a kind of a nomad lifestyle so I live in many different places and if I do end up this route, I will probably have to do those HTs at many different countries, and that's why I have to nail down a systematic way of pinpointing trust worthy surgeons. If the IAHRS is trust-worthy then that's a tremendous boon as I can quickly find ethic surgeons without too much hassle.

[psychic]

Have you given any consideration to RU58841- a lot of guys have had great results with it....

Thanks for the suggestion.
The ingredent does seem promising, but the whole premise of becoming a scientist ordering stuff that gets warnings of "not for human consumption" and having a mini laboratory concocting materials looks unnerving.

I would expect at least a single even semi-commercial product to come out if it is indeed what is cracked up to be. Maybe I'm wrong in this assumption though.

[VictimOfDHT]

You can start HTs any time but it does have disadvantages if you start too early however, it also has advantages too. I started my HTs when I had an almost full head of hair. My first 3 HTs were small/er ones (300-750 grafts). Then the fourth was 1700 or so. I still had a lot of native hair and you couldn't even tell I was getting all these HTs. Then I got the next HT, and then the next. The problem is that a HT is likely to cause the native existing hair to fall out from the shock. In my case, the first 3 HTs didn't cause any loss but after the 4th HT I started losing hair but the loss would occur after a year or so after an HT -I don't know why so late but this kept happening for the next 2 HTs. Here's where I'm at now - I HAVE hair, which IS the one and probably the biggest advantage of starting too early; that I NEVER was bald, although my crown is thinning rapidly now, which mean I'll probably get more HTs because I never had any there. My hair now (the transplanted area) is NOT anything it used to look before (it's just the nature of my hair being curly in the back but that's not the point). The disadvantage of starting too early is that the transplanted hairs might not be distributed evenly (due to the existing native hair). For me, even after 6 HTs I still see that some areas are a little thicker than others -not too bad or anything- and that's because of the fact that I still had a lot of native hair as mentioned, and also because some spots were thinning more than others, which is why the doctor was putting more grafts in there than in other areas (areas with less thinning). For someone who's completely bald or with little hair left, it will be much easier to place the grafts in an even and uniform pattern.

So, to sum it up, advantages of starting too early is that you can avoid going completely bald, EVER. Priceless to some people. People might not even know that you're actually going bald or that you're getting HTs.
Disadvantages : Once you start, you're almost on the hook in that you will have to keep getting more HTs in the future as the hair loss progresses. And again, in some people the shock from an HT might cause the native hair to fall out sooner or faster. They might tell you it will grow back but it might not. So, that's something to consider. And like I mentioned, chances are the grafts won't be placed evenly -if yo still have a lot of native hair- but then you can always get more HTs later to fill in the gaps.

Oh, and as for Replicell or whatever other crap (other companies) there used to be, they're all hot air. 4 or 5 years ago every body thought we would have a breakthrough in a couple of years. I think every body was saying '16 "IS THE YEAR" that we'd have a "cure" of some sort from these companies. Well,....I've said it before but I'll say it again, if any body is waiting for these companies then not only they, but their kids will be bald before these companies come up with something. So, don't put too much -if any- hope in that.

Lastly, NOT all doctors are the same. I wouldn't go by ishrs alone. There are some doctors that are much better than others and I'm sure many of the guys here have their own experiences and I think it's not hard to find the good ones depending on where you are.

[markusbdc]

Thanks for the reply!

Indeed without showing photos it's hard to say if I'm a candidate or not, but I wanted to know is, like you mentioned, if it's even plausible given that I'm in the middle of actively losing it, i.e. it isn't stabilized, and I prefer not to wait until it's stabilized as by then I'll have nothing.

So you're saying HTs are being done even if you're not stabilized? Does this mean that beforehand follicles that are completely healthy will be removed because they are anticipated to die out in the future? Or do they leave them in there and transplant more follicules to those areas? Potentially giving rise to overly dense hair, temporarily until the DHT-sensitive follicules die out?

The problem with HT is that no matter how much research I do I end up being overwhelmed with conflicting information. People vaguely say "do your research, due diligence" but it's problematic to do it when whatever you come across is either a truth or a lie that someone pays for. Can I trust doctors that are in the IAHRS? How do I know I can? By asking other people? How do I know they are honest?
Are unethical doctors get expelled from the IAHRS?

Thanks for suggesting the alternative PRP and laser. I'm all up for trying alternative approaches, I just want to stay away from things that are downright scams as I don't want to lose precious time. I'm also looking at getting Regenepure NT 5 times a week with Nizoral in the other 2 days.
Are there any other topical products that aren't downright scams?
I also think of trying Finasteride again, but this time taking 0.25 once or twice a week and staying there. Hopefully it won't turn out to be a waste of time.

Have you given any consideration to RU58841- a lot of guys have had great results with it....