PDA

View Full Version : Aderans



Pages : 1 [2] 3 4 5

Person
08-15-2012, 12:06 PM
You just quoted what I said?

Oh and the idiot who said 2017 - that is 5 years away. It will take 5 years to do phase 3?


Ya. How long has phase II taken again? Also considering they may be doing another part of Phase II before even going to Phase III. Also, that date includes the time it would take to 1. recruit subjects 2. actually do phase III 3. the FDA review and approval process after finishing phase 3 (on avg 11 months) and 4. The time it takes to be available to the public/commercialized after approval. What in the world name makes you think that it will be some quick 1 yr trial and instant fda approval.

When i said that date i didnt mean just when phase III ends. I meant when you will actually see aderans available to the public.

idiot

greatjob!
08-15-2012, 12:30 PM
speculating about release date whether optimistic or pessimistic, before we even know how effective the treatment is doesn't make any sense. Just look at what happened with Replicel, that thread was crazy with people buying stocks and claiming baldness was cured and then the bottom fell out. No one knows anything about release date. The only thing that is certain and promising about Aderans is the scope and strength of their distribution network. The clinical trials are long and arduous but if their treatment is successful and approved it would be realistic to expect it to be released almost immediately through their bosley and hair club infrastructure. Thats something the other major players don't have going for them.

UK_
08-15-2012, 01:02 PM
Look how long phase 2 has taken lol - you people really think they'll be done & dusted with phase 3 after 1 year? hahahaha that 2014 timeline is rubbish.

Dan26
08-15-2012, 02:24 PM
Remember, money talks and, bullshit walks. IF this is a proven solution, IF there is enough money behind it, it WILL be brought to the market when the time is right. Lets not fret about release dates and such, science and technology are on our side.

UK_
08-15-2012, 02:47 PM
Remember, money talks and, bullshit walks. IF this is a proven solution, IF there is enough money behind it, it WILL be brought to the market when the time is right. Lets not fret about release dates and such, science and technology are on our side.

If any company has got access to shit loads of cash its Aderans.

yeahyeahyeah
08-15-2012, 02:59 PM
Look how long phase 2 has taken lol - you people really think they'll be done & dusted with phase 3 after 1 year? hahahaha that 2014 timeline is rubbish.

phase 2 look long cos of the direction of the hair causing problems.

After phase 2, they wouldn't need to tweek it, rather test it on a larger amount of people. So, in theory, it should be quicker.

Alf
08-15-2012, 03:16 PM
Look how long phase 2 has taken lol - you people really think they'll be done & dusted with phase 3 after 1 year? hahahaha that 2014 timeline is rubbish.


I'm sceptic about 2014 too, but if they can start phase 3 imediate after the original phase 2 has finished then we're back in business. Of course thats a big if and who knows what kind of results the are able to get.

But to another point, anyone knows what you get for participating in phase 3, would they give you as much aderans you need to get the job done or do you just get a couple of square inches? I guess they have to give someone the full job, but all of them? Then they can count me in! Have to move to USA, but I'm going aborad to study anyway so why not america.

Follicle Death Row
08-15-2012, 03:34 PM
If we knew 2016 was 100% for definite would we all be happy? I certainly would.

UK_
08-15-2012, 03:40 PM
phase 2 look long cos of the direction of the hair causing problems.

After phase 2, they wouldn't need to tweek it, rather test it on a larger amount of people. So, in theory, it should be quicker.

Hmm - good point, I guess also they'll have actually chosen the most powerful protocol and only be testing the best one instead of spending years testing several protocols (I bet this is what ate up most of the time during Phase II).

UK_
08-15-2012, 03:41 PM
If we knew 2016 was 100% for definite would we all be happy? I certainly would.

Ive been waiting since the 80's so erm lol yeah I'd be happy.

yeahyeahyeah
08-15-2012, 03:43 PM
Ive been waiting since the 80's so erm lol yeah I'd be happy.

Science was too primative in the 80s-90s

UK_
08-15-2012, 03:47 PM
Yep sure was, I remember Minoxidil was just like the way RU is today lol you could only get it in powder/pill form and then have to crush them to apply it topically - and we were waiting for finasteride to be released lol.

yeahyeahyeah
08-15-2012, 03:53 PM
Yep sure was, I remember Minoxidil was just like the way RU is today lol you could only get it in powder/pill form and then have to crush them to apply it topically - and we were waiting for finasteride to be released lol.

Thats why all the pessimists are stupid for saying new treatments wont come out, we are at that stage right now.

Regenerative medicine is the future.

Alf
08-15-2012, 04:08 PM
Ive been waiting since the 80's so erm lol yeah I'd be happy.

But are you still wanting the cure for the same reasons? Dont want to be impolite, but being bald in your 50/60s(2016) isn't that bad? getting the hair back is maybe more to look younger?

Again don't want to be implite, but I'm 24 and was hoping that after I hit 30 I wouldn't care about my hair loss.

UK_
08-15-2012, 04:40 PM
But are you still wanting the cure for the same reasons? Dont want to be impolite, but being bald in your 50/60s(2016) isn't that bad? getting the hair back is maybe more to look younger?

Again don't want to be implite, but I'm 24 and was hoping that after I hit 30 I wouldn't care about my hair loss.

lol you will always care about your hair loss. I used to tell myself at 23 once I got married had children and grew older I wouldnt care... well... lol I was wrong.

Alf
08-15-2012, 05:02 PM
lol you will always care about your hair loss. I used to tell myself at 23 once I got married had children and grew older I wouldnt care... well... lol I was wrong.

Fu*k! But atleast my little brother will be bald then too:) I'm not kidding if he does not start balding soon i'm not sure what to do.

briandesigns
08-15-2012, 06:31 PM
lol, wishing for loved ones to go bald is not a good thing

UK_
08-15-2012, 07:16 PM
How old is Dr Cots? Because according to this journalist he's spent several decades working on a cure for hair loss, was he studying hair loss in the womb?

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/29/business/baldness-battle-fought-in-the-follicle.html

UK_
08-15-2012, 07:26 PM
Fu*k! But atleast my little brother will be bald then too:) I'm not kidding if he does not start balding soon i'm not sure what to do.

Look on the bright side, atleast you're not stuck in 1989 waiting for Propecia to be released lol.

Kiwi
08-16-2012, 03:08 PM
Look on the bright side, atleast you're not stuck in 1989 waiting for Propecia to be released lol.

I can't even fathom this.

But after getting a failed HT (there are not 3000+ hairs in my f___ng head and ACELL don't do shit) I feel like I'm in the same boat as you even though I'm 34.

If HTs were not around and if there wasnt crap hype I wouldnt have flown to Carolina to get a HT, and I would have simply shaved my head. Now I feel like a damn fool.

Aderans can't come quickly enough!!!

Kiwi
08-16-2012, 03:11 PM
This is my story too:
http://www.baldingblog.com/2012/08/09/another-young-man-who-had-almost-3000-grafts-fail-to-grow/

I don't care what people say about Rassman because I think he's brutally honest and its what I need.

Still... Milan... Spex.. SMP... I'm very tempted for that as a short term solution :P

Maradona
08-16-2012, 03:19 PM
This is my story too:
http://www.baldingblog.com/2012/08/09/another-young-man-who-had-almost-3000-grafts-fail-to-grow/

I don't care what people say about Rassman because I think he's brutally honest and its what I need.

Still... Milan... Spex.. SMP... I'm very tempted for that as a short term solution :P

You should Gho that shit up. From my research, I heard Dr. Gho has never ever had a failed transplant. A couple of dudes who had HST also told me they were told this.

hellouser
08-16-2012, 03:21 PM
I can't even fathom this.

But after getting a failed HT (there are not 3000+ hairs in my f___ng head )

What happened with your HT?

hellouser
08-16-2012, 03:22 PM
You should Gho that shit up. From my research, I heard Dr. Gho has never ever had a failed transplant. A couple of dudes who had HST also told me they were told this.

Do you think anyone with a Gho treatment will still be able to go for a Histogen/Aderans treatment?

Maradona
08-16-2012, 03:26 PM
Do you think anyone with a Gho treatment will still be able to go for a Histogen/Aderans treatment?

Hmmm...you mean having a transplant on a certain area and then applying that treatment to that area?

It should work, you're simply giving your new hairs a boost with those new treatments. But if you want to revive old lost follicles that are minituarized that will not work because a transplant destroys whatever was below your skin layer.

The new treatments should make your new hair stronger but will not make new hair appear. Again I'm talking about the treatment area that you used HST/FUE/FUT or whatever.

Anyone who tells you otherwise is an imbecile.

In fact, I plan to use Gho + Histogen as I am a future norwood 7 with a thinned out horshoe.

But there is something special about Gho's medium and I think that might even be used like a treatment...I am researching hard on this but there's not much direct info on it...it's all scattered around dozens of research papers with those ingredients.

hellouser
08-16-2012, 03:32 PM
Hmmm...you mean having a transplant on a certain area and then applying that treatment to that area?

It should work, you're simply giving your new hairs a boost with those new treatments. But if you want to revive old lost follicles that are minituarized that will not work because a transplant destroys whatever was below your skin layer.

The new treatments should make your new hair stronger but will not make new hair appear. Again I'm talking about the treatment area that you used HST/FUE/FUT or whatever.

Anyone who tells you otherwise is an imbecile.

In fact, I plan to use Gho + Histogen as I am a future norwood 7 with a thinned out horshoe.

But there is something special about Gho's medium and I think that might even be used like a treatment...I am researching hard on this but there's not much direct info it...it's all scattered around dozens of research papers with those ingredients.

The treatment from Gho that I'm interested in is the one where only a part of the follicle is cut and transplanted to the front of the scalp, leaving behind a remainder where it can regenerate itself in the back, thus giving life for 2 hairs. I'm willing to drop the cash for this procedure but what I'm curious is how will those original hair follicles react to Histogen or Aderans. I don't want to ruin the chances of a future 'cure' if I've gone with Gho.

Think I should fork out the money now on Gho and be happy/stress free for the time being (and continue using RU58841) until a permanent treatment comes along? At the moment I'm not in dire need of anything to the top of my scalp, I just want to lower the hairline a little and patch up my temples.... therefor leaving the top of my head open for a Histogen/Aderans treatment.

Maradona
08-16-2012, 03:42 PM
The treatment from Gho that I'm interested in is the one where only a part of the follicle is cut and transplanted to the front of the scalp, leaving behind a remainder where it can regenerate itself in the back, thus giving life for 2 hairs. I'm willing to drop the cash for this procedure but what I'm curious is how will those original hair follicles react to Histogen or Aderans. I don't want to ruin the chances of a future 'cure' if I've gone with Gho.

Think I should fork out the money now on Gho and be happy/stress free for the time being (and continue using RU58841) until a permanent treatment comes along? At the moment I'm not in dire need of anything to the top of my scalp, I just want to lower the hairline a little and patch up my temples.... therefor leaving the top of my head open for a Histogen/Aderans treatment.

Any treatment should work on your recipient hairs. Those are transplanted normal regular hairs with the necessary tissues attached to it, otherwise they would die. Why do you think doctors give propecia to their patients after transplants: it works and they need it but Gho doesn't.

As for the donor area...if you are scared some misterious component will be taken out of your donor that will make aderans,replicel not work then tell Gho to leave a .5cm area in your donor for future treatments.

In fact there is no need because he doesn't use all the donor at all...you will always have untouched FUs for HM in the future.

Yes that's a good plan. In fact it's what i'm trying to do. Get Gho on my hairline and use RU till HSC makes it to market.

There's a consultation for Gho in september. Maybe you should go there. I might go.

Kiwi
08-16-2012, 03:46 PM
Any treatment should work on your recipient hairs. Those are transplanted normal regular hairs with the necessary tissues attached to it, otherwise they would die. Why do you think doctors give propecia to their patients after transplants: it works and they need it but Gho doesn't.

As for the donor area...if you are scared some misterious component will be taken out of your donor that will make aderans,replicel not work then tell Gho to leave a .5cm area in your donor for future treatments.

In fact there is no need because he doesn't use all the donor at all...you will always have untouched FUs for HM in the future.

Yes that's a good plan. In fact it's what i'm trying to do. Get Gho on my hairline and use RU till HSC makes it to market.

There's a consultation for Gho in september. Maybe you should go there. I might go.

What is RU?

Also we should all meet there in September :P

Kiwi
08-16-2012, 03:48 PM
Hmmm...you mean having a transplant on a certain area and then applying that treatment to that area?

It should work, you're simply giving your new hairs a boost with those new treatments. But if you want to revive old lost follicles that are minituarized that will not work because a transplant destroys whatever was below your skin layer.


So you're saying the follicles exactly under the transplanted hair right... not the hair follicles to the left or right of the transplanted hair?

Maradona
08-16-2012, 03:49 PM
So you're saying the follicles exactly under the transplanted hair right... not the hair follicles to the left or right of the transplanted hair?

Wherever the incision was made...that's for the recipient.

yeahyeahyeah
08-16-2012, 03:56 PM
This is my story too:
http://www.baldingblog.com/2012/08/09/another-young-man-who-had-almost-3000-grafts-fail-to-grow/

I don't care what people say about Rassman because I think he's brutally honest and its what I need.

Still... Milan... Spex.. SMP... I'm very tempted for that as a short term solution :P

Was it a good HT Dr?

hellouser
08-16-2012, 05:02 PM
Any treatment should work on your recipient hairs. Those are transplanted normal regular hairs with the necessary tissues attached to it, otherwise they would die. Why do you think doctors give propecia to their patients after transplants: it works and they need it but Gho doesn't.

As for the donor area...if you are scared some misterious component will be taken out of your donor that will make aderans,replicel not work then tell Gho to leave a .5cm area in your donor for future treatments.

In fact there is no need because he doesn't use all the donor at all...you will always have untouched FUs for HM in the future.

Yes that's a good plan. In fact it's what i'm trying to do. Get Gho on my hairline and use RU till HSC makes it to market.

There's a consultation for Gho in september. Maybe you should go there. I might go.

Hmmm, if I were in Europe, I'd easily schedule a consultation... but I was just there, and now I'm in Canada which makes things a little difficult. The good news is that I have some friends that live in London now and can make a relatively cheap trip down there and schedule a consultation some time in the future.

Does he accept consultations at any time by appointment or does he only do consultations at certain times of the year?

Maradona
08-16-2012, 05:04 PM
Hmmm, if I were in Europe, I'd easily schedule a consultation... but I was just there, and now I'm in Canada which makes things a little difficult. The good news is that I have some friends that live in London now and can make a relatively cheap trip down there and schedule a consultation some time in the future.

Does he accept consultations at any time by appointment or does he only do consultations at certain times of the year?

I'm not sure I would guess any time by appointment. But I rather speak to Gho himself and that may not be any time.

Joker
08-16-2012, 06:58 PM
Honestly, a two-page conversation about Dr. Gho in the Aderans thread?

You guys are seriously ruining everything that was good about this site.

Speaking on behalf of all the desperate, bald losers that come here looking for real information about HM (whether or not it will ever materialize), I'm asking you nicely to please give it a rest.

Maradona
08-16-2012, 07:24 PM
Honestly, a two-page conversation about Dr. Gho in the Aderans thread?

You guys are seriously ruining everything that was good about this site.

Speaking on behalf of all the desperate, bald losers that come here looking for real information about HM (whether or not it will ever materialize), I'm asking you nicely to please give it a rest.

If you look around this thread there are other things discussed besides aderans that are 2-pages.

What is it with Gho? Is he a serial killer? lol...most of you go crazy when the name is even mentioned.
He's just doing real HM or "may be" doing real HM if those scientific journals were faked, that's gotta be related to ARI...Hair Multiplication...ari...Hair multiplication...ADERANS...Hair...multiply.

This forum is really brainwashed. ----------->

Kiwi
08-16-2012, 07:26 PM
Honestly, a two-page conversation about Dr. Gho in the Aderans thread?

You guys are seriously ruining everything that was good about this site.

Speaking on behalf of all the desperate, bald losers that come here looking for real information about HM (whether or not it will ever materialize), I'm asking you nicely to please give it a rest.

Deal with it dude. We're all mates round here chatting and helping each other... and if you don't like it... you know where to shove it....

hellouser
08-16-2012, 07:46 PM
Honestly, a two-page conversation about Dr. Gho in the Aderans thread?

You guys are seriously ruining everything that was good about this site.

Speaking on behalf of all the desperate, bald losers that come here looking for real information about HM (whether or not it will ever materialize), I'm asking you nicely to please give it a rest.


Really? Ruining it how? I asked how a treatment from Gho would affect a future treatment from Histogen/Aderans... if you have issues with individuals seeking the best advice on matters related directly to Aderans treatments than I suggest you find yourself a forum with extremely strict rules.

I dont understand why you wouldnt find this bit of information useful:

Get Gho treatment now for temporary relief and use Aderans later on *if* Gho's treatment won't affect Aderans down the line. But I'd like to know why you think this logic/questioning would ruin anything?

Maradona
08-16-2012, 07:57 PM
Really? Ruining it how? I asked how a treatment from Gho would affect a future treatment from Histogen/Aderans... if you have issues with individuals seeking the best advice on matters related directly to Aderans treatments than I suggest you find yourself a forum with extremely strict rules.

I dont understand why you wouldnt find this bit of information useful:

Get Gho treatment now for temporary relief and use Aderans later on *if* Gho's treatment won't affect Aderans down the line. But I'd like to know why you think this logic/questioning would ruin anything?

He does not think. He follows other's so called experts on Gho matters. Unqualified doctors that to talk about this issue with no evidence or even a well thought out scientific reason as to why it shouldn't be discussed.

I am very interested in Dr. Gho's medium. It is very impressive the yield he got in his clinical studies while using that medium. I think that's the main reason why none of his 3000 patients had a failed transplant like Kiwi.

I am very sorry Kiwi but you must look at the bright side. You still got donor left.

534623
08-17-2012, 01:09 AM
I can't even fathom this.

But after getting a failed HT (there are not 3000+ hairs in my f___ng head
http://www.baldingblog.com/2012/08/09/another-young-man-who-had-almost-3000-grafts-fail-to-grow/

and ACELL don't do shit) I feel like I'm in the same boat as you even though I'm 34.

If HTs were not around and if there wasnt crap hype I wouldnt have flown to Carolina to get a HT, and I would have simply shaved my head. Now I feel like a damn fool.

let me guess - you got a 'golden standard' (fut) procedure, whereby your 3000+ grafts were bathed in an acell/saline solution - performed by dr. jerry cooley in north carolina?

534623
08-17-2012, 01:34 AM
quote dr. Rassman

“I keep seeing more and more patients that come in to meet with me after the hair transplants they got elsewhere failed to grow. This seems to be the case in large session grafting, usually above 2000 grafts.
Last week I met with another young man who had 3000 grafts transplanted at a clinic with a doctor that I was not familiar with. Shockingly, he had a failure of graft growth to about 95% of what was put in.”

quote spencer kobren (radio show – concerning dr. gho)

“You know, that is how I see it, there is nothing wrong with kinda doing a hybrid [gho vs standard bs], especially if you wanna live your life now and enjoy it. Cause I see these guys that only have 1500 grafts a shot, 2000 grafts a shot, and then have to wait a year between each procedure, so by the time to get 4000 grafts, with healing, it is going to be like 4 years. I mean it just seems like a long time in a young person’s life to wait for a result and to hope that they are actually getting scalp regeneration.”

How do these two quotes fit together?

Joker
08-17-2012, 07:29 AM
Sorry, everyone. I didn't realize that wanting to discuss Aderans in the Aderans thread was considered a serious offense. It won't happen again. ;)

Anyways, I called Radiant Research today and I would like to sync my experience with JRQ's. I called the office in Florida (I'm not sure which one JRQ called) and they were indeed looking for individuals who were balding in the crown area, but not elsewhere. She explained the procedure, and mentioned that the amount of cells they implant varies from patient to patient. Sometimes the growth process yields 900 cells, sometimes 400, etc. I think 900 cells seems low, so I'm thinking she meant to say 900 units - each unit being perhaps thousands of cells. Anyways, she DID say that the process has been proven to work. Having said that, she was not the patient coordinator and was very far removed from the process for the most part. She could just be repeating what she's heard from others, and she didn't provide any meaningful amount of detail with regard to efficacy. She said that admissions are rolling, and they already have people in their study that have been injected and measured, which leads me to believe that they didn't JUST START the enrolling process as the website states. I left a message for the actual coordinator and *hopefully* she'll call back and is willing to give me more information on Monday.

mlao
08-17-2012, 07:34 AM
Sorry, everyone. I didn't realize that wanting to discuss Aderans in the Aderans thread was considered a serious offense. It won't happen again. ;)

Anyways, I called Radiant Research today and I would like to sync my experience with JRQ's. I called the office in Florida (I'm not sure which one JRQ called) and they were indeed looking for individuals who were balding in the crown area, but not elsewhere. She explained the procedure, and mentioned that the amount of cells they implant varies from patient to patient. Sometimes the growth process yields 900 cells, sometimes 400, etc. I think 900 cells seems low, so I'm thinking she meant to say 900 units - each unit being perhaps thousands of cells. Anyways, she DID say that the process has been proven to work. Having said that, she was not the patient coordinator and was very far removed from the process for the most part. She could just be repeating what she's heard from others, and she didn't provide any meaningful amount of detail with regard to efficacy. She said that admissions are rolling, and they already have people in their study that have been injected and measured, which leads me to believe that they didn't JUST START the enrolling process as the website states. I left a message for the actual coordinator and *hopefully* she'll call back and is willing to give me more information on Monday.

Please keep the forum informed. Thanks.

534623
08-17-2012, 11:00 AM
let me guess - you got a 'golden standard' (fut) procedure, whereby your 3000+ grafts were bathed in an acell/saline solution - performed by dr. jerry cooley in north carolina?

and, if so...

Computer system aids hair loss treatment
Published: July 24, 2012 at 1:21 AM
CHARLOTTE, N.C., July 24 (UPI) -- A U.S. firm said it can harvest follicular (hair) units directly from the scalp to provide hair restoration, using computer-assisted technology.

Dr. Jerry E. Cooley, founder and operator of the Carolina Dermatology Hair Center, in Charlotte, N.C., said the ARTAS System is approved by the U.S. government and he is the first to use the system to treat hair loss.

Cooley said more than 35 million men are affected by male pattern baldness -- androgenetic alopecia -- in the United States.

Approximately two-thirds of U.S. men will experience appreciable hair loss by age 35; by age 50, 85 percent will see significant loss in hair thickness. Genetic hair loss, which typically begins between late adolescence and before or during middle age, is largely untreatable outside of surgery, Cooley said.

Restoration Robotics Inc., provides an interactive, computer assisted system that uses image guided technology to enhance the quality of hair follicle harvesting for the benefit of physicians and their patients, Cooley said.

"I've always worked to provide my patients with the most effective, comfortable solutions available," Cooley said. "Needless to say, the ARTAS System represents a new and exciting addition to my practice. I'm confident my patients will benefit immensely from the system's advanced, highly sophisticated approach."



HOW ARTAS WORKS: THE MECHANICS

Cameras, color identification sensors, and 3-D imaging software guide the robotic arm of ARTAS in selecting which follicles to score. To carry out the rest of the FUE process, ARTAS employs:

- A needle punch mechanism
- Disposable dermal punches
- Disposable cartridges
- A video imaging system
- A user interface

This double-punch extraction technique requires an outer 16g (1.65mm) punch with cutting capabilities, along with an inner 18g (1.2 mm) punch with a blunt edge.

ARTAS is only approved for use on patients with

- straight hair
- that is dark brown
- or black in color.

The patient is positioned for the robot to punch out the grafts on a donor area of roughly 5 to 10cm at a time. During this time, the patient must remain absolutely still as the head is restrained by straps. After this, the surgeon removes each graft by hand with a pair of forceps. The patient is then repositioned for ARTAS to work on a new section of donor hair. This process continues until the extraction portion of surgery is complete. The implantation of grafts to the bald area is done using a traditional transplant approach.

...how do these two quotes fit together?? :rolleyes:

UK_
08-17-2012, 03:48 PM
Sorry, everyone. I didn't realize that wanting to discuss Aderans in the Aderans thread was considered a serious offense. It won't happen again. ;)

Anyways, I called Radiant Research today and I would like to sync my experience with JRQ's. I called the office in Florida (I'm not sure which one JRQ called) and they were indeed looking for individuals who were balding in the crown area, but not elsewhere. She explained the procedure, and mentioned that the amount of cells they implant varies from patient to patient. Sometimes the growth process yields 900 cells, sometimes 400, etc. I think 900 cells seems low, so I'm thinking she meant to say 900 units - each unit being perhaps thousands of cells. Anyways, she DID say that the process has been proven to work. Having said that, she was not the patient coordinator and was very far removed from the process for the most part. She could just be repeating what she's heard from others, and she didn't provide any meaningful amount of detail with regard to efficacy. She said that admissions are rolling, and they already have people in their study that have been injected and measured, which leads me to believe that they didn't JUST START the enrolling process as the website states. I left a message for the actual coordinator and *hopefully* she'll call back and is willing to give me more information on Monday.

400 cells? are you serious? Because I thought it would have been tens of millions of cells lol - I mean these are ****ing cells we're talking about right? Replicel implanted millions of cells in their phase 1.

hellouser
08-18-2012, 01:35 AM
I haven't read much into it, but from what I've seen in the forums here and elsewhere online, Aderans bought out Bosley, MHR and HairClub for $165 Million dollars.

Food for thought; they spent THAT much cash on HairClub a couple or so years before they roll out a potentially working 'cure' so to speak. I don't think they bought out HairClub for the hell of it, it looks like they've really got a guaranteed working solution and are doing what Steve Jobs would do; secure the future market with one of the biggest players and roll out their own solution via HairClub and rake in the money. They wouldnt gamble on the acquisition if they didnt know if they had a working treatment, no investor/shareholder would be crazy enough otherwise.

Its simple logic really, it looks like a cure is really close.... god damn exciting time to live in if your balding, so much to look forward to right now, so many players.. its almost like a rat race.

yeahyeahyeah
08-18-2012, 03:17 AM
I haven't read much into it, but from what I've seen in the forums here and elsewhere online, Aderans bought out Bosley, MHR and HairClub for $165 Million dollars.

Food for thought; they spent THAT much cash on HairClub a couple or so years before they roll out a potentially working 'cure' so to speak. I don't think they bought out HairClub for the hell of it, it looks like they've really got a guaranteed working solution and are doing what Steve Jobs would do; secure the future market with one of the biggest players and roll out their own solution via HairClub and rake in the money. They wouldnt gamble on the acquisition if they didnt know if they had a working treatment, no investor/shareholder would be crazy enough otherwise.

Its simple logic really, it looks like a cure is really close.... god damn exciting time to live in if your balding, so much to look forward to right now, so many players.. its almost like a rat race.

Or they want to monopolize the WIG market

Kiwi
08-18-2012, 04:27 AM
let me guess - you got a 'golden standard' (fut) procedure, whereby your 3000+ grafts were bathed in an acell/saline solution - performed by dr. jerry cooley in north carolina?

Do you know other people that have had Jerry's "golden standard" procedure?

UK_
08-18-2012, 04:37 AM
I haven't read much into it, but from what I've seen in the forums here and elsewhere online, Aderans bought out Bosley, MHR and HairClub for $165 Million dollars.

Food for thought; they spent THAT much cash on HairClub a couple or so years before they roll out a potentially working 'cure' so to speak. I don't think they bought out HairClub for the hell of it, it looks like they've really got a guaranteed working solution and are doing what Steve Jobs would do; secure the future market with one of the biggest players and roll out their own solution via HairClub and rake in the money. They wouldnt gamble on the acquisition if they didnt know if they had a working treatment, no investor/shareholder would be crazy enough otherwise.

Its simple logic really, it looks like a cure is really close.... god damn exciting time to live in if your balding, so much to look forward to right now, so many players.. its almost like a rat race.

Dont forget their purchase of Intercytex!

And if this is the case, and they're capable of offering cell therapy combined with a HT - why on earth would anyone visit a traditional HT doctor? For scars maybe? Perhaps the HT doctors would have to purchase a licence for a substantial amount off Aderans to incorporate the process into their own clinics.

Artista
08-18-2012, 05:57 AM
Id prefer to stay positive on this topic. 'hellouser' does make a good point here. Cautious Optimism is needed-lol

Alf
08-18-2012, 07:08 AM
Its simple logic really, it looks like a cure is really close.... god damn exciting time to live in if your balding, so much to look forward to right now, so many players.. its almost like a rat race.

I feel it to, too bad people have felt the same thing for decades, lol.

BoSox
08-18-2012, 08:01 AM
The cure is coming soon, let's all rent an apartment like the Mexicans do and save up together. I'm not kidding either.

Alf
08-18-2012, 08:35 AM
The cure is coming soon, let's all rent an apartment like the Mexicans do and save up together. I'm not kidding either.

Like I would share apartment with someone who would mugg me if they got the chance.

Dazza
08-18-2012, 12:35 PM
Like I would share apartment with someone who would mugg me if they got the chance.

I lol'd..

Question, as this treatment is injecting cells into your head creating new hair follicles why is there talk of have a HT and having this? If the New hairfollicles didnt give you full Density You would just get another injection? I'm slightly confused.

Alf
08-18-2012, 12:51 PM
Question, as this treatment is injecting cells into your head creating new hair follicles why is there talk of have a HT and having this? If the New hairfollicles didnt give you full Density You would just get another injection? I'm slightly confused.

Im confused too, but maybe aderans only can give a limited hairs per square inch no matter how many injections or that it is cheaper with combining the two options.

But some of the participants must soon start posting on the web. I have seen Bald-Half Truth on ************* but he hasn't posted since 2010.
But some of the phase 2 participants must have gotten several injection to see if you can get a decengt hair dencity.

You could of course never know if they were telling the truth, but if there were several people telling the same credible story and they had som post before they told about their aderans experience.

350 participants someone must want to share their hairgain.

krewel
08-18-2012, 12:57 PM
Im confused too, but maybe aderans only can give a limited hairs per square inch no matter how many injections or that it is cheaper with combining the two options.

But some of the participants must soon start posting on the web. I have seen Bald-Half Truth on ************* but he hasn't posted since 2010.
But some of the phase 2 participants must have gotten several injection to see if you can get a decengt hair dencity.

You could of course never know if they were telling the truth, but if there were several people telling the same credible story and they had som post before they told about their aderans experience.

350 participants someone must want to share their hairgain.

Because basically it is a hair transplant, but not as we usually know it. You extract cells from the back of your cells and inject them again, so it's a transplant. People just get this wrong sometimes.

To answer your last question: Because they are simply not allowed to. You would have to pay very high fees for pre-releasing trial information.

Alf
08-18-2012, 01:02 PM
Because basically it is a hair transplant, but not as we usually know it. You extract cells from the back of your cells and inject them again, so it's a transplant. People just get this wrong sometimes.

To answer your last question: Because they are simply not allowed to. You would have to pay very high fees for pre-releasing trial information.
Thanks.

But internet is anonymity. Bald-Half Truth said that they had marked his head so that he could not take pictures, but only count the new hairs vissible to the naked eye. Can't see why not more people would do that. Would be nice to know if someone had gotten several injections in the same area and that they started getting "cured".

So if anyone on the forum participates please give some information and just make sure not to get specific enough that they can catch you.

Dazza
08-18-2012, 01:03 PM
Because basically it is a hair transplant, but not as we usually know it. You extract cells from the back of your cells and inject them again, so it's a transplant.

can you rephrase this

krewel
08-18-2012, 01:24 PM
Thanks.

But internet is anonymity. Bald-Half Truth said that they had marked his head so that he could not take pictures, but only count the new hairs vissible to the naked eye. Can't see why not more people would do that. Would be nice to know if someone had gotten several injections in the same area and that they started getting "cured".

So if anyone on the forum participates please give some information and just make sure not to get specific enough that they can catch you.

Well personally, I wouldn't take the risk. I am pretty sure the company would prosecute you under civil and criminal law. The internet never forgets!


can you rephrase this

"Organ transplantation is the moving of an organ from one body to another or from a donor site on the patient's own body, for the purpose of replacing the recipient's damaged or absent organ." - Wikipedia

Aderans is doing the same, only that they are transplanting certain cells of the hair follicle and not a whole hair follicle as we usually know. That's why you can call this a hair transplant.

hellouser
08-18-2012, 01:33 PM
Well personally, I wouldn't take the risk. I am pretty sure the company would prosecute you under civil and criminal law. The internet never forgets!



"Organ transplantation is the moving of an organ from one body to another or from a donor site on the patient's own body, for the purpose of replacing the recipient's damaged or absent organ." - Wikipedia

Aderans is doing the same, only that they are transplanting certain cells of the hair follicle and not a whole hair follicle as we usually know. That's why you can call this a hair transplant.

But its still pretty much unlimited supply though, right?

krewel
08-18-2012, 01:40 PM
But its still pretty much unlimited supply though, right?

Yes. The cells taken from the biopsy will be multiplied in a growth medium. From a logical point of view, it's even possible to freeze them to be able to multiply them again. But I'm not sure about that.

Edit: Apparently yes.
"Cells were used either the same day or kept frozen at -80 °C for future use..." - http://aderansresearch.com/pdfs/02PatchAssay_04_05.pdf - Page 8

hellouser
08-18-2012, 01:57 PM
Yes. The cells taken from the biopsy will be multiplied in a growth medium. From a logical point of view, it's even possible to freeze them to be able to multiply them again. But I'm not sure about that.

Edit: Apparently yes.
"Cells were used either the same day or kept frozen at -80 °C for future use..." - http://aderansresearch.com/pdfs/02PatchAssay_04_05.pdf - Page 8

From the video I watched with their report i saw something in the area of 60% more hair after the injections. Thats pretty awesome, but could further injections be used to give even more hair? How would it even fair on the temples/hairline?

krewel
08-18-2012, 02:04 PM
From the video I watched with their report i saw something in the area of 60% more hair after the injections. Thats pretty awesome, but could further injections be used to give even more hair? How would it even fair on the temples/hairline?

More hair? According to their reports, probably yes, because also new hair follicles were created.

I can't tell you anything about hair lines because they haven't made any reports (at least I haven't seen any) about that. That's what they are/were about to find out in Phase II.

JRQ
08-18-2012, 02:23 PM
More hair? According to their reports, probably yes, because also new hair follicles were created.

I can't tell you anything about hair lines because they haven't made any reports (at least I haven't seen any) about that. That's what they are/were about to find out in Phase II.

But I know for a fact Phase II specifically focused on the crown only?

krewel
08-18-2012, 02:39 PM
But I know for a fact Phase II specifically focused on the crown only?

As far as I remember, not in all of their Phase II studies.

Alf
08-18-2012, 03:06 PM
But I know for a fact Phase II specifically focused on the crown only?

Sure? didn't you just get information for the phase 2 which starts now and not the original one?

UK_
08-18-2012, 03:15 PM
Remember people - no news is good news!

hellouser
08-18-2012, 03:33 PM
Remember people - no news is good news!

That might actually be true, lol. No point in hyping anything up and getting competitors scared. Seems like Aderans might have a fantastic strategy in place.

JRQ
08-18-2012, 09:43 PM
Sure? didn't you just get information for the phase 2 which starts now and not the original one?

I know for a fact that the past 2 years have focused only on the crown- you had to have a hairline in place and balding at the crown. I unfortunately have a receding hairline and hair scattered throughout my crown area, thus I was ineligible. I also have direct knowledge that the east coast locations were all following the same platform. This does leave the door open for movement, so I cannot say for 100%- however, I would find it unlikely.

Kiwi
08-18-2012, 10:48 PM
I know for a fact that the past 2 years have focused only on the crown- you had to have a hairline in place and balding at the crown. I unfortunately have a receding hairline and hair scattered throughout my crown area, thus I was ineligible. I also have direct knowledge that the east coast locations were all following the same platform. This does leave the door open for movement, so I cannot say for 100%- however, I would find it unlikely.

Either way this is totally awesome. Even if they can ONLY fill up my crown, I'm free get get that transplanted to my hairline later on down the track...

Kiwi
08-18-2012, 10:50 PM
Thanks.

But internet is anonymity. Bald-Half Truth said that they had marked his head so that he could not take pictures, but only count the new hairs vissible to the naked eye. Can't see why not more people would do that. Would be nice to know if someone had gotten several injections in the same area and that they started getting "cured".

So if anyone on the forum participates please give some information and just make sure not to get specific enough that they can catch you.

Are you totally retarded!

If you were in the trial and promised to be one of the first to get full treatment... free post launch... would you dare open your stupid ass mouth!!! Wake up dude.

hellouser
08-19-2012, 02:50 AM
More hair? According to their reports, probably yes, because also new hair follicles were created.

I can't tell you anything about hair lines because they haven't made any reports (at least I haven't seen any) about that. That's what they are/were about to find out in Phase II.

I'm mostly curious if Aderans would be able to cover a completely bald head back to normal. If not, perhaps with a combination of Gho + Aderans?

Dazza
08-19-2012, 03:15 AM
I'm mostly curious if Aderans would be able to cover a completely bald head back to normal. If not, perhaps with a combination of Gho + Aderans?

If there product worked, as in grew new follicles then why would the amount of balding matter on the person? If it works it works, why would one point on the scalp turn around able be like "nope I don't like this area I'm not going to work here"

hellouser
08-19-2012, 03:35 AM
If there product worked, as in grew new follicles then why would the amount of balding matter on the person? If it works it works, why would one point on the scalp turn around able be like "nope I don't like this area I'm not going to work here"

Well I'm not in the position to be able to make that call, I don't know the scientific details, one could make the argument that depending on the area where the cells are injected follicles may/may not grow.

Like everyone, I'm tired of waiting. I recently looked at my photos from 5-6 years ago and my hairline hasn't changed too much and I think paranoia may have got the best of me because looking at some more detailed shots of the top of my head from 5 years ago, there isnt a whole lot more hair on the top of my scalp from back then there is now. Thus I'm considering Gho until Aderans or someone else comes up with another solution.... but dear god, would it be nice to know some kind of guarantee of when Aderans will definitely be hitting the market and how well their procedure works. I don't care about the money, I'll spend the cash for both Gho and Aderans, I just don't want to see my best years be pissed away and have a head full of hair later on when im older and have less energy for life... or god forbid, AFTER I hit 30.

Their projected product date is early 2014, which sounds great and plausible considering their acquisition of HairClub (meaning theyre ready to roll out the product in the clinics by 2014 without any problems). I wish there was some kind of update.....

Does anyone know when theyre Phase II trials end, Phase III trials begin and how long Phase III lasts?

Dazza
08-19-2012, 05:44 AM
Does anyone know when theyre Phase II trials end, Phase III trials begin and how long Phase III lasts?

http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/results?term=Aderans

Alf
08-19-2012, 08:40 AM
http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/results?term=Aderans
Great!
*10 char*

UK_
08-19-2012, 01:34 PM
http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/results?term=Aderans

Thanks for that.

hellouser
08-19-2012, 01:38 PM
http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/results?term=Aderans

Thanks!

Looks like the absolute last Phase II trial is set for February of 2013, so not too far away;

http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT01451190?term=Aderans&rank=9

After that its all Phase III which should take about a year to complete.

Seeing how they acquired HairClub/Bosley they will have no trouble at all rolling out their product when available. 2014 doesnt seem unlikely... god damn this is exciting =D

krewel
08-19-2012, 02:21 PM
Does anyone know when theyre Phase II trials end, Phase III trials begin and how long Phase III lasts?

One thing I know is, that Phase III can be finished very quickly. Some weeks ago I read an article about a company, I do not remember exactly what kind of a treatment it was (I think it was a treatment for a bowel disease), but the company successfully finished their Phase III trial in about 14 months.
A big reason Phase II took so long is because they were testing different complexes of their Ji-Gami solution, not only one. After their Phase II trial, they will know, which one works best.
Aderans has huge potential.

Edit: There are really no borders, some Phase III trials were finished after six months. http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/results?rslt=With&phase=2&rcv_s=01%2F01%2F2010&pg=3
It can take some months, but it can also take years. :)

BoSox
08-19-2012, 02:50 PM
I'm located on Columbus Ohio, called Radiant Research up in Akron OH. I was put on the waiting list for Aderan's clinical trials.. I doubt I'll get selected but it's worth a shot.

Hopefully a shot of my sexy cells :P


I seriously can't wait until October, or w/e Aderan's will fill us in with some information, aka hair :P

Stay positive brothers/sisters.

UK_
08-19-2012, 02:55 PM
I'm located on Columbus Ohio, called Radiant Research up in Akron OH. I was put on the waiting list for Aderan's clinical trials.. I doubt I'll get selected but it's worth a shot.

Hopefully a shot of my sexy cells :P


I seriously can't wait until October, or w/e Aderan's will fill us in with some information, aka hair :P

Stay positive brothers/sisters.

Hey thats good news - hope you get on! - I cant wait until 17th - 20th October too!

Alf
08-19-2012, 03:22 PM
http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/4181/aderanstimeline.jpg

So it seems like phase 3 lasts as long as phase 2.

So maybe late 2014 or 2015 is realistic.

Alf
08-19-2012, 03:26 PM
I'm located on Columbus Ohio, called Radiant Research up in Akron OH. I was put on the waiting list for Aderan's clinical trials.. I doubt I'll get selected but it's worth a shot.



Do you know how many times you have to show up on the clinic?

And at least some of the phase 3 participants must get the full work, full head of hair? Or will they not start testing that before phase 3 is finished?

hellouser
08-19-2012, 03:26 PM
http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/4181/aderanstimeline.jpg

So it seems like phase 3 lasts as long as phase 2.

So maybe late 2014 or 2015 is realistic.

That image is taken from the video presentation on aderans website. The dude doing the presentation said a commercial product would be ready in early 2014.

I like to stay open/optimistic but theres also the reality that things may go wrong and delays may occur. I'd like it to be early 2013 instead or RIGHT NOW but 2014 isnt too far off if what he said is true (or guaranteed).

Alf
08-19-2012, 03:33 PM
That image is taken from the video presentation on aderans website. The dude doing the presentation said a commercial product would be ready in early 2014.



I know just wanted to show the length of phase 3. And it seems like they at the moment are 3/4 of a year behind the 2010 presentation. phase 2 finishes february 2013 and not in the middle of 2012.

hellouser
08-19-2012, 03:40 PM
I know just wanted to show the length of phase 3. And it seems like they at the moment are 3/4 of a year behind the 2010 presentation. phase 2 finishes february 2013 and not in the middle of 2012.

According to the clinical trials website, yes, February 2013 is the final time for all of their Phase II trials. If Phase III takes a year to complete, Aderans will be right on schedule for their early 2014 projected date. I have no doubt in my mind that a quick roll out for the general public will be possible given their acquisition of Bosly/HairClub. I would assume that if Phase II trials went as planned, they would probably start preparing their commercial product within the time Phase III trials were taking place and get an immediate product for sale, thus satisfying many of their investors and dominating the market completely all of their acquired clinics and make a boat load of profits... as much as their solution is to improve the quality of life for bald/balding men, theyre still a business so profits are still a top priority.... and you know when money is involved they will hurry to get it.

TravisB
08-19-2012, 04:12 PM
Can someone tell me why this Aderans thing is so hyped? As far as I know their first results were poor (remember the photos?).

There is no chance that it could be as good as a transplant, is there?

Or will it work similar to Histogen, i. e. it will help people who still have fair amount of miniaturised hair, but no slick bald spots?

Alf
08-19-2012, 04:24 PM
According to the clinical trials website, yes, you know when money is involved they will hurry to get it.

And will be first in line handing them whatever they want.

Alf
08-19-2012, 04:33 PM
Can someone tell me why this Aderans thing is so hyped? As far as I know their first results were poor (remember the photos?).


I know the photos made me think that this will never happen soon enough to make me their customer. But as I said earlier, I trust Bald-Halftruth
http://www.*************/hair-loss/forum_entry-id-62706-page-0-category-1-order-last_answer.html

And if they get 5 vissible hairs with one injection, there is hope that more injections, and better injections will make people hairy.

of course it might be that Bald-halftruth lied, or that there were something else that made the hair grow.

hellouser
08-19-2012, 04:57 PM
I know the photos made me think that this will never happen soon enough to make me their customer. But as I said earlier, I trust Bald-Halftruth
http://www.*************/hair-loss/forum_entry-id-62706-page-0-category-1-order-last_answer.html

And if they get 5 vissible hairs with one injection, there is hope that more injections, and better injections will make people hairy.

of course it might be that Bald-halftruth lied, or that there were something else that made the hair grow.

Keep in mind that thread/post is from 2009. Its been three years since the discussion took place and if true, a 25% increase in hair was achieved 3 years ago which one could assume that since that time improvements have been made. Aderans claimed a 62% increase in hair count back in 2010;

http://i46.tinypic.com/334p25u.jpg

Thats pretty damn impressive, I don't think their results could have gotten any worse, but even if 25% thats still impressive.

Heres the link to their 2010 presentation, some interesting stuff to listen to:

http://www.aderansresearch.com/presentation/

Alf
08-19-2012, 05:02 PM
Keep in mind that thread/post is from 2009. Its been three years since the discussion took place and if true, a 25% increase in hair was achieved 3 years ago which one could assume that since that time improvements have been made. Aderans claimed a 62% increase in hair count back in 2010;


Thats pretty damn impressive, I don't think their results could have gotten any worse, but even if 25% thats still impressive.

Heres the link to their 2010 presentation, some interesting stuff to listen to:

http://www.aderansresearch.com/presentation/

Yes its impressive as hell.,but I don't know why they are claiming the increase in hair in percentage, shouldn't they rather count hairs cause the method should be independent of the number of hairs in the injection area?

hellouser
08-19-2012, 05:14 PM
Yes its impressive as hell.,but I don't know why they are claiming the increase in hair in percentage, shouldn't they rather count hairs cause the method should be independent of the number of hairs in the injection area?

Its probably better they use percentages rather than numbers, each individual is going to respond differently to the treatment, so its probably an average response. In a square inch of scalp, one person may have 10 hairs another may have 50 hairs... it may depend on the severity of hairloss per person... it may be that the person with 10 hairs only sees 5 new hairs (50%) and the other sees 25 new hairs (75 total, again 50%). I don't think we'll know the details until this years announcement from them... or next years. We'll have to wait and see, but so far it looks pretty good!

Sogeking
08-20-2012, 08:35 AM
Its probably better they use percentages rather than numbers, each individual is going to respond differently to the treatment, so its probably an average response. In a square inch of scalp, one person may have 10 hairs another may have 50 hairs... it may depend on the severity of hairloss per person... it may be that the person with 10 hairs only sees 5 new hairs (50%) and the other sees 25 new hairs (75 total, again 50%). I don't think we'll know the details until this years announcement from them... or next years. We'll have to wait and see, but so far it looks pretty good!

Yeah but percentages are too relative. If you had 10 hairs in the area which is shown in the square on that picture and you get 62% total hair count (which can consist of velus hair as well) your final result is 16 hair. But if you had 30 hairs than the total hair count is around 48 hairs. Why am I telling you this, because if they can gro 6 new hairs that won't be much of an improvement so basically for a small number of hairs in a given are they should have total hair count well over 100%. That would be a really good treatment in my book.

I always thought of Aderans as a treatment meant to boost the looks of HTs and my biggest fear is that they will sell it as such. But I still think it will be a treatment with moderate results. Won't give you your hair back but it will make some cosmetical change...

UK_
08-20-2012, 08:38 AM
wow I cant believe this:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/20/tony-scott-dead-top-gun-director-obituary_n_1808583.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular

Sorry has nothing to do with Aderans, I just really liked his films.

yeahyeahyeah
08-20-2012, 10:42 AM
Yeah but percentages are too relative. If you had 10 hairs in the area which is shown in the square on that picture and you get 62% total hair count (which can consist of velus hair as well) your final result is 16 hair. But if you had 30 hairs than the total hair count is around 48 hairs. Why am I telling you this, because if they can gro 6 new hairs that won't be much of an improvement so basically for a small number of hairs in a given are they should have total hair count well over 100%. That would be a really good treatment in my book.

I always thought of Aderans as a treatment meant to boost the looks of HTs and my biggest fear is that they will sell it as such. But I still think it will be a treatment with moderate results. Won't give you your hair back but it will make some cosmetical change...

If it can regrow the hair follicle, then there will be unlimited donor supply - in which case you will get your hair back.

Joker
08-20-2012, 01:18 PM
Hi guys, spoke with the clinical trial coordinator today. I have some news to break.

Our conversation was very short. Applicants need to be off Propecia for at least 1 year to be eligible. Before our conversation ended, however, I asked her how the trial was going. I also asked what phase they were in.

....

Per her knowledge, we're in Phase 3 boys!!!

First she said "I believe this is Phase 3." Then she said "This is Phase 3." And then she said "I guess the only difference is if you get in on this trial they will pay you for the treatment. Otherwise you'll have to wait and then you'll pay them for the treatment."

I would love it if someone else could call their local center to corroborate/verify this.

hellouser
08-20-2012, 01:33 PM
Hi guys, spoke with the clinical trial coordinator today. I have some news to break.

Our conversation was very short. Applicants need to be off Propecia for at least 1 year to be eligible. Before our conversation ended, however, I asked her how the trial was going. I also asked what phase they were in.

....

Per her knowledge, we're in Phase 3 boys!!!

First she said "I believe this is Phase 3." Then she said "This is Phase 3." And then she said "I guess the only difference is if you get in on this trial they will pay you for the treatment. Otherwise you'll have to wait and then you'll pay them for the treatment."

I would love it if someone else could call their local center to corroborate/verify this.

That put a smile on my face. Do you have a link/telephone number to call again and ask? I'll definitely make a call to see whats going on.

Joker
08-20-2012, 01:37 PM
http://www.aderansresearch.com/ari_clinicupdates.html

I just called the one in Florida. I REALLY, REALLY hope she didn't make a mistake.

hellouser
08-20-2012, 01:41 PM
http://www.aderansresearch.com/ari_clinicupdates.html

I just called the one in Florida. I REALLY, REALLY hope she didn't make a mistake.

Do you think its possible that some of the labs are in Phase III and others still in Phase II?

Joker
08-20-2012, 01:50 PM
That's an interesting question. I *hope* that's the case, because that makes sense with what JRQ said (his clinical site was in Phase 2 apparently). Also, it would mean that Aderans is able to run Phase 2 and Phase 3 concurrently, so they can bring multiple treatments to market as they improve efficacy.

I don't really know, just crossing my fingers at this point.

krewel
08-20-2012, 02:03 PM
In Aderans case, it's indeed possible. Aderans different Phase II trials were including different derivatives of their Ji-Gami complex, and since we all know that Aderans already finished several Phase II trials, they might be in Phase III, testing one of them already.

But somehow I doubt that. First, because I don't know if Jokers post is legit (no offense :)), neither do I know if that person on the phone was't doing a mistake. I also think Aderans would announce such an awesome progress.

Maybe and hopefully I'm wrong. :)

hellouser
08-20-2012, 02:15 PM
In Aderans case, it's indeed possible. Aderans different Phase II trials were including different derivatives of their Ji-Gami complex, and since we all know that Aderans already finished several Phase II trials, they might be in Phase III, testing one of them already.

But somehow I doubt that. First, because I don't know if Jokers post is legit (no offense :)), neither do I know if that person on the phone was't doing a mistake. I also think Aderans would announce such an awesome progress.

Maybe and hopefully I'm wrong. :)

According to this:

http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/results?term=Aderans

Some of their Phase 2 trials *are* finished, so with the woman saying theyre in Phase 3, its likely that its true. You never know though, she could have just messed up and said something she wasnt supposed to... mistakes happen, and in this case, probably for the better for us.

Theres more and more evidence of Aderans being right on schedule.

gmonasco
08-20-2012, 02:51 PM
Also, it would mean that Aderans is able to run Phase 2 and Phase 3 concurrently, so they can bring multiple treatments to market as they improve efficacy.

It doesn't necessarily mean that. It's standard procedure to start screening potential subjects for the next phase of clinical trials while the current stage is still in process so that you don't have an unnecessarily large time gap between the trial stages. In itself such screening doesn't mean that trial phases are (or can be) run concurrently.

JRQ
08-20-2012, 02:56 PM
I personally called the SC office of Radiant and was told this screening process was still Phase II. Maybe it's different at different locations, but I really, really don't think so.

Joker
08-20-2012, 03:29 PM
Can someone else call another clinical site (or call Florida again) and see what's up? I'm not doubting JRQ at all, and believe me I'm probably the most pessimistic person on this board, but I was definitely told Phase 3 and I want to know if this lady was confused or if we legitimately have a reason to be happy.

Alf
08-20-2012, 05:28 PM
It doesn't necessarily mean that. It's standard procedure to start screening potential subjects for the next phase of clinical trials while the current stage is still in process so that you don't have an unnecessarily large time gap between the trial stages. In itself such screening doesn't mean that trial phases are (or can be) run concurrently.

Agreed and Aderans said they would do phase 3 on the best one. But screening for phase 3 would be the greatest news ever no matter if we have to wait a bit before phase 3 starts.

Joker I would have called, but I'm in europe and only have a cell phone, that makes things kind of expencive. But I apprecuate your call and hope someone else would pick up the phone.

Maradona
08-20-2012, 05:43 PM
I'd be surprised if they get to phase 3 this/next year that would be a dream come true.

Maradona
08-20-2012, 05:44 PM
Agreed and Aderans said they would do phase 3 on the best one. But screening for phase 3 would be the greatest news ever no matter if we have to wait a bit before phase 3 starts.

Joker I would have called, but I'm in europe and only have a cell phone, that makes things kind of expencive. But I apprecuate your call and hope someone else would pick up the phone.

Phase 3 = baldness cured.

hellouser
08-20-2012, 05:47 PM
Joker I would have called, but I'm in europe and only have a cell phone, that makes things kind of expencive. But I apprecuate your call and hope someone else would pick up the phone.

I'll call myself tomorrow, I have free minutes to anywhere in the USA.

hellouser
08-20-2012, 05:50 PM
I'd be surprised if they get to phase 3 this/next year that would be a dream come true.

If what the woman on the phone said is true and Phase II is done in certain areas, then Phase III could be already going, maybe they meant *all* Phase III trials would be done by 2014 with a commercial product by then?

That said, if things are on schedule for Aderans, which looks like they are, then Phase III should be started by around February/March seeing how the last Phase II trials ends in February.

Alf
08-20-2012, 06:10 PM
Phase 3 = baldness cured.

I know:D

Have already gotten my "Ken Washenik is my homeboy" tshirt.

john2399
08-20-2012, 06:30 PM
Phase 3 = baldness cured.

You really believe aderans is the cure?

Maradona
08-20-2012, 06:32 PM
You really believe aderans is the cure?

Any HM technique that goes to phase 3 is pretty much a cure but there will always be the unlucky ones that for some reason are not responsive to it.

Who knows? :confused:

For a real cure see:

http://bcrt.charite.de/index.php?id=391

http://www.tsuji-lab.com/en/research/organ/hair.html

hellouser
08-20-2012, 09:18 PM
For a real cure see:

http://bcrt.charite.de/index.php?id=391


I really want to know whats been going on with Dr. Lauster in the last few years. Theres been pretty much zero news about his work which is the most interesting of all as its a full blown permanent cure to this *disease* of MPB.

Have you heard anything from him at all?

BoSox
08-21-2012, 04:06 AM
Many believe Aderans will be just an addition to HT, not an actual cure.. Do you guys honestly believe if phase 3 is a reality that we have the holy grail?

Joker
08-21-2012, 08:31 AM
Nope. I definitely don't think this is the "holy grail" at all. But I do think it's a treatment that can eventually turn into a really solid solution for most people. No one can say for certain, though. Let's just hope they actually ARE in Phase 3 first!!!

Gjm127
08-21-2012, 08:58 AM
Before people on this forum start thinking about release dates, what results are we looking at from Aderans? What technology do they use? Compared to Histogen and Replicel...?

Where is 2020? lol

krewel
08-21-2012, 10:48 AM
Before people on this forum start thinking about release dates, what results are we looking at from Aderans? What technology do they use? Compared to Histogen and Replicel...?


This thread has over 350 posts. I guarantee you'll find the answers in this thread. There's no point in answering these questions every few pages again. I mean this board has really good search tools.

Let's see if someone will call the guys in Florida again. It will really surprise me, if her answer would be "Phase III" again.

yeahyeahyeah
08-21-2012, 11:33 AM
This thread has over 350 posts. I guarantee you'll find the answers in this thread. There's no point in answering these questions every few pages again. I mean this board has really good search tools.

Let's see if someone will call the guys in Florida again. It will really surprise me, if her answer would be "Phase III" again.

You guys spend more time bitching and speculating, rather then being pro-active.

How hard is a ****ing phone call?

yeahyeahyeah
08-21-2012, 11:35 AM
Nope. I definitely don't think this is the "holy grail" at all. But I do think it's a treatment that can eventually turn into a really solid solution for most people. No one can say for certain, though. Let's just hope they actually ARE in Phase 3 first!!!

With the amount they have spent, it will shock me if it fails outright.

Out of all companies, ARI has the biggest financial backing.

krewel
08-21-2012, 11:48 AM
You guys spend more time bitching and speculating, rather then being pro-active.

How hard is a ****ing phone call?

I am everything but not a speculator and if I do, I do it carefully and write down my reasons. I think everyone that knows me on TBTT knows this.
I just don't think it's neccessary and pro-active to ask the same questions in the same thread 20x a row while you could use the search function. Otherwise every thread here would end up like that TRX-2 thread. I don't think anybody wants another TRX-2 thread.
I'd call them by myself, but right now I'm in Scandinavia and calling these guys from my mobile phone would be quite expensive for me. Hellouser wanted to call them too, so we already got one.

yeahyeahyeah
08-21-2012, 11:52 AM
I am everything but not a speculator and if I do, I do it carefully and write down my reasons. I think everyone that knows me on TBTT knows this.
I just don't think it's neccessary and pro-active to ask the same questions in the same thread 20x a row while you could use the search function. Otherwise every thread here would end up like that TRX-2 thread. I don't think anybody wants another TRX-2 thread.
I'd call them by myself, but right now I'm in Scandinavia and calling these guys from my mobile phone would be quite expensive for me. Hellouser wanted to call them too, so we already got one.

Talking about the guys in the US.

End the speculation and call them ffs.

hellouser
08-21-2012, 12:25 PM
I am everything but not a speculator and if I do, I do it carefully and write down my reasons. I think everyone that knows me on TBTT knows this.
I just don't think it's neccessary and pro-active to ask the same questions in the same thread 20x a row while you could use the search function. Otherwise every thread here would end up like that TRX-2 thread. I don't think anybody wants another TRX-2 thread.
I'd call them by myself, but right now I'm in Scandinavia and calling these guys from my mobile phone would be quite expensive for me. Hellouser wanted to call them too, so we already got one.

I just gave them a call in Tucscon, Arizona. I recorded the whole conversation, I'll post it later on. Speaking of which, anyone know where I can upload an MP3 file for download?

yeahyeahyeah
08-21-2012, 12:37 PM
I just gave them a call in Tucscon, Arizona. I recorded the whole conversation, I'll post it later on. Speaking of which, anyone know where I can upload an MP3 file for download?

What did they say?

gmonasco
08-21-2012, 01:18 PM
I really want to know whats been going on with Dr. Lauster in the last few years. Theres been pretty much zero news about his work which is the most interesting of all as its a full blown permanent cure to this *disease* of MPB. Have you heard anything from him at all?

He's apparently still working along those lines, as he contributed to a paper on the subject published last November:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3284944/?tool=pubmed

hellouser
08-21-2012, 01:48 PM
What did they say?

Christ, I just checked the call recording quality and it is absolute CRAP. I can barely hear the girl that was on the phone with me, the quality is so bad its pretty much inaudible. I should mention I was at a restaurant with a lot of ambient noise.... I'll make another call to another location from home where its quiet, I should get a better recording (I'm really pissed).

In short, YES, they are taking in participants for Phase III as their Phase II trials have ended. Each location is in different phases, but again according to the clinical trials page online, all of them are in AT LEAST in the end of phase II. She also mentioned that Phase III will probably take around a year so the 2014 projected date they set in 2010 seems legit.

The bad news is this, and I really hope that this isnt the case... After the clinical trials are up, the FDA requires 2-3 years of more results/testing before giving the go ahead and having a final product on store shelves. So 2016/17 at this point seems more likely the case, BUT that also means that the presentation given in 2010 is also wrong since it *clearly* showed a commercial product in early 2014, which means a product for the public.

The great news is this:
They are only injecting a few hundred cells and their results are great, she mentioned the patients are walking out with THICK terminal hair so their solution is working. Of course, this was only a few hundred injections which means we could expect more hair or better results with more injections. I asked about the temple areas and she couldnt give a response since they are only focusing on the crown area. I wonder though, if the hairline/temples would require additional information or longer wait periods for the FDA to give clearance on their procedure.

I can put up the recorded conversation if someone knows a site where I can upload and share a 15mb file, but its really moot as the quality is absolutely awful (you can hear me just fine, but not the woman on the other end is very faint). I'm really pissed because she had a lot of great answers for me and its a 10 minute conversation, plus she mentioned shes with the company for 5 years.

Regardless, we're going to have much better information by january when aderans gives us their update.

Joker
08-21-2012, 01:52 PM
Whoah.

Bummer about that 2016/17 thing... but perhaps they'll offer it in another country first?

Still, whoah.

hellouser
08-21-2012, 02:03 PM
Whoah.

Bummer about that 2016/17 thing... but perhaps they'll offer it in another country first?

Still, whoah.

I'm going to call the FDA and try and get some answers from them about this. I wouldnt take it all too seriously until theres some final concrete answers in regards to the 'commercial product' date.

In my eyes, if *three* clinical trials are done and all come back without any complications, I really don't understand why the FDA would require up to three MORE years (basically double, one year for each phase) of study? It doesn't make sense to me, I thought the whole point of the clinical trials was specifically FOR safety and all that, especially Phase I (Replicel stressed the safety requirement and results of phase I).

I'm really confused....

Joker
08-21-2012, 02:05 PM
Never underestimate the corruption of American bureaucratic agencies.

Still, let's focus on the good news! Maybe the FDA will cut us baldies a break for once!

krewel
08-21-2012, 02:07 PM
Whoah.

Bummer about that 2016/17 thing... but perhaps they'll offer it in another country first?

Still, whoah.

Very likely, yes. Aderans is a Japanese company. The FDA is not really relevant in Japan. Europe is possible too.


hellouser, thank you very much! :) Great news! ... You could upload that file to Zippyshare.

hellouser
08-21-2012, 02:11 PM
Never underestimate the corruption of American bureaucratic agencies.

Still, let's focus on the good news! Maybe the FDA will cut us baldies a break for once!

Check this link:

http://www.fiercebiotech.com/topics/fda_approval_process.asp


Phase III

Phase III is a large-scale study of the effectiveness and side effects of the drug in a larger population, usually ranging from 1000-3000 patients. If the drug is submitted to the FDA for approval, the FDA will look at the Phase III data to determine if the drug is safe and effective. Aside from testing the drug’s viability, the company producing the drug also determines the logistics involved in creating a large supply of the treatment. Phase III of the FDA approval process takes about three years.

I think if anyone wants a faster approval, you guys, Americans... will need to do some heavy protesting. I've done it before in Canada, and if people come out in large enough numbers, you CAN get what you want and what you deserve. At that point, I can only count on PROACTIVE americans. Being in Canada for the past 22 years, ive realized that Canadians are the most passive individuals on the planet with zero backbone... protests here are a joke, I hope this isnt the case with you guys.

Bah....

Although, this does raise an interesting point.... can other nations give the go ahead for a commercial product going by american clinical trials alone?

krewel
08-21-2012, 02:25 PM
Although, this does raise an interesting point.... can other nations give the go ahead for a commercial product going by american clinical trials alone?

Yes, they can. But in Europe it's probably even more difficult to release them that fast. It's different from country to country. For example in Germany, the foam version of Minoxidil got approved this month.

But in an Asian country like Japan, it's way easier to release treatments and they probably will release Ji-Gami there at first, since Aderans is a Japanese company.

hellouser
08-21-2012, 02:39 PM
Yes, they can. But in Europe it's probably even more difficult to release them that fast. It's different from country to country. For example in Germany, the foam version of Minoxidil got approved this month.

But in an Asian country like Japan, it's way easier to release treatments and they probably will release Ji-Gami there at first, since Aderans is a Japanese company.

Thats germany alone though, some european countries have more lax laws on things like this. But thats just europe, if Japan is a candidate for a quick release of the product, you can be sure i'll have a booked flight... thank god i have friends there :)

Alf
08-21-2012, 04:11 PM
But in an Asian country like Japan, it's way easier to release treatments and they probably will release Ji-Gami there at first, since Aderans is a Japanese company.

Are you sure it is easier in Japan?

Alf
08-21-2012, 04:17 PM
The bad news is this, and I really hope that this isnt the case... After the clinical trials are up, the FDA requires 2-3 years of more results/testing before giving the go ahead and having a final product on store shelvesaderans gives us their update.

Fu*k, but if that is the case why wouldn't they show it in the 2010 presentation:
http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/4181/aderanstimeline.jpg

Not saying I don't believe the girl on the phone,I do, but how can they not include it in the presentation?

hellouser
08-21-2012, 04:32 PM
Fu*k, but if that is the case why wouldn't they show it in the 2010 presentation:
http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/4181/aderanstimeline.jpg

Not saying I don't believe the girl on the phone,I do, but how can they not include it in the presentation?

We'll soon find out. Regardless, balding americans need to make a stand....

I'm gonna call the FDA and see what they say. I guess for the time being we have to hope aderans gives us treatments in 2014... if not im gonna see if Gho is a viable option with a future treatment from aderans (or other).

Alf
08-21-2012, 04:51 PM
We'll soon find out. Regardless, balding americans need to make a stand....

I'm gonna call the FDA and see what they say. I guess for the time being we have to hope aderans gives us treatments in 2014... if not im gonna see if Gho is a viable option with a future treatment from aderans (or other).

Would be strange if FDA said, **** safety this is a cure for baldness:-) Or that 1000 people outside FDA HQ could make a difference. Can't blame them, but as I said stange that Aderans didn't account for this in 2010.

And if Aderans is only injectioning my own hair cells, it seems completely safe.

gmonasco
08-21-2012, 04:57 PM
The bad news is this, and I really hope that this isnt the case... After the clinical trials are up, the FDA requires 2-3 years of more results/testing before giving the go ahead and having a final product on store shelves.

I don't know of any additional testing requirements after the initial clinical trials have been completed and the New Drug Application has been submitted to the FDA. The FDA may sometimes specify phase IV trials as a condition of approval, but those trials take place after drugs have been approved for sale.

hellouser
08-21-2012, 05:10 PM
Would be strange if FDA said, **** safety this is a cure for baldness:-) Or that 1000 people outside FDA HQ could make a difference. Can't blame them, but as I said stange that Aderans didn't account for this in 2010.

And if Aderans is only injectioning my own hair cells, it seems completely safe.

It pretty much is, its kind of like asking 'can I infect myself?' The obvious answer is no.

hellouser
08-21-2012, 05:11 PM
I don't know of any additional testing requirements after the initial clinical trials have been completed and the New Drug Application has been submitted to the FDA. The FDA may sometimes specify phase IV trials as a condition of approval, but those trials take place after drugs have been approved for sale.

Maybe it depends on the type of drug/procedure in terms of years or any waiting time at all? Would it be fair to assume that there are different timelines for different applications especially with three phases of clinical trials?

JJJJrS
08-21-2012, 06:02 PM
Christ, I just checked the call recording quality and it is absolute CRAP. I can barely hear the girl that was on the phone with me, the quality is so bad its pretty much inaudible. I should mention I was at a restaurant with a lot of ambient noise.... I'll make another call to another location from home where its quiet, I should get a better recording (I'm really pissed).

In short, YES, they are taking in participants for Phase III as their Phase II trials have ended. Each location is in different phases, but again according to the clinical trials page online, all of them are in AT LEAST in the end of phase II. She also mentioned that Phase III will probably take around a year so the 2014 projected date they set in 2010 seems legit.

The bad news is this, and I really hope that this isnt the case... After the clinical trials are up, the FDA requires 2-3 years of more results/testing before giving the go ahead and having a final product on store shelves. So 2016/17 at this point seems more likely the case, BUT that also means that the presentation given in 2010 is also wrong since it *clearly* showed a commercial product in early 2014, which means a product for the public.

The great news is this:
They are only injecting a few hundred cells and their results are great, she mentioned the patients are walking out with THICK terminal hair so their solution is working. Of course, this was only a few hundred injections which means we could expect more hair or better results with more injections. I asked about the temple areas and she couldnt give a response since they are only focusing on the crown area. I wonder though, if the hairline/temples would require additional information or longer wait periods for the FDA to give clearance on their procedure.

I can put up the recorded conversation if someone knows a site where I can upload and share a 15mb file, but its really moot as the quality is absolutely awful (you can hear me just fine, but not the woman on the other end is very faint). I'm really pissed because she had a lot of great answers for me and its a 10 minute conversation, plus she mentioned shes with the company for 5 years.

Regardless, we're going to have much better information by january when aderans gives us their update.

Thanks for taking the effort to call them. Too bad the recording didn't seem to work out but there's still plenty of interesting info in your post.

krewel
08-21-2012, 08:19 PM
Phase III Finasteride results were presented in March 1997 and got approved in December 1997. Of course that was 15 years ago, but I can't imagine the same process taking 2-3 years in 2014 with a way more harmless treatment.

hellouser
08-21-2012, 08:24 PM
Phase III Finasteride results were presented in March 1997 and got approved in December 1997. Of course that was 15 years ago, but I can't imagine the same process taking 2-3 years in 2014 with a way more harmless treatment.

THIS should be seriously considered. There clearly are ways to shorten the approval process, so the 2-3 year approval process could just be 2-3 months, but who knows. I'm going to stay positive and hope for the best (and expect the worst). However, since Aderans presented the 2014 timeline of a 'commercialized product' and didnt mention that it would be another (potentially) 3 years, wouldnt they know their investors would be really pissed off if they found the actual date is set for 2016/17? It almost seems like lying, I have a feeling they will be given the go ahead much sooner than the three years. And since the cells are *our own* theres really almost no way of developing complications... this alone compared to an actual drug with potential side effects should make the approval that much more swift considering finasteride's quick approval.

Oh, and seeing how much money would be involved with this, theres a ton of cash for Aderans to make.... which means a ton of taxes the us government would collect, which it BADLY needs considering USA's poor economy/debt. It'd be kind of stupid to say 'no, we dont want to make millions happy and collect some nice tax money'

*fingers crossed*

JRQ
08-21-2012, 10:29 PM
Wow guys, this is awesome news. I honestly didn't mean to be a Debbie Downer about the Phase II, but I was on the phone with them for about 5 minutes at the SC branch.....she was extremely nice, but didn't exude competence sadly. They were one of the very last branches to end Phase 2 screening, so maybe that's what the aforementioned Arizona site was talking about.

I will be waiting for the FDA call:) thanks again guys!

Joker
08-23-2012, 10:04 AM
No problem, JRQ. You helped get this thing started, and I'm ALWAYS an advocate of tempering enthusiasm where baldness treatments are concerned.

I think this is an area where Spencer Kobren can *hopefully* be of some help. Perhaps he can contact Aderans and inquire about this 2-3 year period after Phase 3? Maybe he has more resources than we do...

mlao
08-23-2012, 10:38 AM
The bad news is this, and I really hope that this isnt the case... After the clinical trials are up, the FDA requires 2-3 years of more results/testing before giving the go ahead and having a final product on store shelves. So 2016/17 at this point seems more likely the case, BUT that also means that the presentation given in 2010 is also wrong since it *clearly* showed a commercial product in early 2014, which means a product for the public.


hellhouser, for clarification is this what the person you spoke to at Aderans said, or is this your own conjecture?

Because I think I once read that a company can began FDA approval assessment during phase III.

eqvist
08-23-2012, 03:35 PM
Were can I see the phase II results?

Joker
08-23-2012, 03:49 PM
There is no way to see the Phase 2 results until Aderans decides to release them. Very few hair loss companies reveal accurate and transparent sets of data to consumers.

Hopefully they release some positive trial data soon.

Sorry. :/

stilted
08-23-2012, 04:48 PM
Phase III Finasteride results were presented in March 1997 and got approved in December 1997. Of course that was 15 years ago, but I can't imagine the same process taking 2-3 years in 2014 with a way more harmless treatment.

But are you taking into account the fact that 5mg of finasteride (proscar) had already been on the market for years and years? Surely marketing a 1mg tablet version of a pre-existing drug helped speed things along at the FDA.

mlao
08-23-2012, 06:53 PM
Hellouser, sorry for misspelling your name - mlao

southasian
08-23-2012, 10:27 PM
No problem, JRQ. You helped get this thing started, and I'm ALWAYS an advocate of tempering enthusiasm where baldness treatments are concerned.

I think this is an area where Spencer Kobren can *hopefully* be of some help. Perhaps he can contact Aderans and inquire about this 2-3 year period after Phase 3? Maybe he has more resources than we do...

Folks, getting FDA approval never takes 3 years. I remember researching about this approval part many years ago & that it normally takes about 6 mths or so. Here's a link below from Wikipedia that elaborates the process, and no i did not edit the details :-)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Drug_Application#The_actual_application

hellouser
08-24-2012, 12:32 AM
hellhouser, for clarification is this what the person you spoke to at Aderans said, or is this your own conjecture?

Because I think I once read that a company can began FDA approval assessment during phase III.

lol, nice typo.

its what I was told over the phone with the lady on the other end. I hope she's wrong for *our* sake.

Kiwi
08-24-2012, 02:22 PM
lol, nice typo.

its what I was told over the phone with the lady on the other end. I hope she's wrong for *our* sake.

Seriously guys. Just think about it. There is no way on earth the lady on the phone taking enrollment calls is on a high enough pay grade where she is allowed to talk about actual release dates - or for that matter is even told in the first place.

Seriously!!

mlao
08-24-2012, 02:30 PM
Seriously guys. Just think about it. There is no way on earth the lady on the phone taking enrollment calls is on a high enough pay grade where she is allowed to talk about actual release dates - or for that matter is even told in the first place.

Seriously!!

That's kind of what I'm thinking. Aren't some of these facilities places where they do multiple clinical trials for different companies.

hellouser
08-24-2012, 06:03 PM
Seriously guys. Just think about it. There is no way on earth the lady on the phone taking enrollment calls is on a high enough pay grade where she is allowed to talk about actual release dates - or for that matter is even told in the first place.

Seriously!!

Why would it matter if Aderans presented a 2014 commercial product date?

534623
08-25-2012, 01:03 AM
http://i46.tinypic.com/334p25u.jpg

Thats pretty damn impressive, I don't think their results could have gotten any worse, but even if 25% thats still impressive.

Heres the link to their 2010 presentation, some interesting stuff to listen to:

http://www.aderansresearch.com/presentation/
this pic is not impressive at all. according to dr washenik in this presentation, it just shows a facial skin sample from a lady who had a facelift; these few hairs on this skin sample grew outside the body in the lab and everybody knows that hairs still grow even if you’re dead. this means, in this pic, it’s even unclear what is what (new hair due to the procedure or just growth of the patients’ existing –sleeping- hairs. furthermore, aga in general or any other negative factors (hormones etc) or ‘real world situation factors’ who cause hair loss were not involved in this experiment.

krewel
08-25-2012, 03:27 AM
Sometimes I ask myself, what these people expect to see on a Trichoscan picture.
I think it's something like this:

http://www.image-upload.net/di/54Q0/php5E1D8s.png

Dazza
08-25-2012, 06:44 AM
Sometimes I ask myself, what these people expect to see on a Trichoscan picture.
I think it's something like this:

http://www.image-upload.net/di/54Q0/php5E1D8s.png

You sir! Made me laugh.

blowmeup
08-25-2012, 09:11 AM
Sometimes I ask myself, what these people expect to see on a Trichoscan picture.
I think it's something like this:

http://www.image-upload.net/di/54Q0/php5E1D8s.png

Lol!!!!!!!

mlao
08-25-2012, 09:51 AM
[QUOTE=krewel;79189]Sometimes I ask myself, what these people expect to see on a Trichoscan picture.
I think it's something like this:

http://www.image-upload.net/di/54Q0/php5E1D8s.png[/QUOTE

That is the truth!

NeedHairASAP
08-25-2012, 03:23 PM
We'll soon find out. Regardless, balding americans need to make a stand....

I'm gonna call the FDA and see what they say. I guess for the time being we have to hope aderans gives us treatments in 2014... if not im gonna see if Gho is a viable option with a future treatment from aderans (or other).

I don't see why Adrian's wouldn't work with an HT. I doubt HTs damage the surrounding tissue enough to void Aderans.

534623
08-26-2012, 01:17 AM
I don't see why Adrian's wouldn't work with an HT. I doubt HTs damage the surrounding tissue enough to void Aderans.

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2012/0022433.html

is there someone who is able to describe/summarize how the aderans technique should work according to their new patents? :rolleyes:

UK_
08-26-2012, 10:59 AM
Sometimes I ask myself, what these people expect to see on a Trichoscan picture.
I think it's something like this:

http://www.image-upload.net/di/54Q0/php5E1D8s.png

Sorry im late but...

AHAHAHAHHAHAAAAAA

This sums up what ive been saying since May.

Alf
08-27-2012, 10:40 AM
this pic is not impressive at all. according to dr washenik in this presentation, it just shows a facial skin sample from a lady who had a facelift; these few hairs on this skin sample grew outside the body in the lab and everybody knows that hairs still grow even if you’re dead. this means, in this pic, it’s even unclear what is what (new hair due to the procedure or just growth of the patients’ existing –sleeping- hairs. furthermore, aga in general or any other negative factors (hormones etc) or ‘real world situation factors’ who cause hair loss were not involved in this experiment.
Seriously? So they didn't use Aderans on the lady, cause with aderans the hair is not growing in lab but inside the body. At least that is how I have uderstood it.

hellouser
08-27-2012, 12:06 PM
Seriously? So they didn't use Aderans on the lady, cause with aderans the hair is not growing in lab but inside the body. At least that is how I have uderstood it.

Also, it should be noted that the picture is most likely taken from the crown as well.... so probably not a picture of a woman after a facelift. What the hell though, how would he know she had facelift and why would that information even be released? Sounds like bullsh...

534623
08-27-2012, 12:12 PM
Also, it should be noted that the picture is most likely taken from the crown as well.... so probably not a picture of a woman after a facelift. What the hell though, how would he know she had facelift and why would that information even be released? Sounds like bullsh...

http://www.aderansresearch.com/presentation/

why don't you guys listen to the bullsh... yourself - eh?? :rolleyes:

Alf
08-27-2012, 12:35 PM
http://www.aderansresearch.com/presentation/

why don't you guys listen to the bullsh... yourself - eh?? :rolleyes:

I did, but you are halfway talking about "human xenograft assay", there he is talking about facelift, but he says they inject hair cells and that the hair grows in the body.

the picture we are talking about is "macrophotogenetic assessment(cont)", where the injections are in the back of the scalp. and the incjections are cells.

southasian
08-27-2012, 12:37 PM
http://www.aderansresearch.com/presentation/

why don't you guys listen to the bullsh... yourself - eh?? :rolleyes:

Thanks a bunch for this link!

534623
08-27-2012, 12:57 PM
Also, it should be noted that the picture is most likely taken from the crown as well.... so probably not a picture of a woman after a facelift. What the hell though, how would he know she had facelift and why would that information even be released? Sounds like bullsh...

dr. washenik shows actually pics of the outcome of two (actually three including mouse studies) different procedures:

1) what happened if injected into skin explants of ladies who had a facelift;
2) what happened after 3 month if injected into the crown area of men or into the front area of women;

both pics a pretty similar, but the here in this thread discussed pic shows, in fact, the outcome of procedure 2).

he explains the same and same pics here (in france) again:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oQYjppOPJM

yeahyeahyeah
08-28-2012, 10:43 AM
For the pessimists.

Who the **** spends 140 million only to release a product that does not work well.

These guys are serious.

Stop your bullshit.

gmonasco
08-28-2012, 11:01 AM
Who the **** spends 140 million only to release a product that does not work well.

See http://www.thecoca-colacompany.com/heritage/cokelore_newcoke.html

Dazza
08-28-2012, 11:02 AM
For the pessimists.

Who the **** spends 140 million only to release a product that does not work well.

These guys are serious.

Stop your bullshit.

One word..

"Microsoft".. They spend billions and there products don't work..

yeahyeahyeah
08-28-2012, 11:08 AM
See http://www.thecoca-colacompany.com/heritage/cokelore_newcoke.html

You can't compare the two.

By this point coca cola was an established product, so they took a gamble.

Aderans are creating their flagship product.

534623
08-28-2012, 11:10 AM
One word..

"Microsoft".. They spend billions and there products don't work..

two words...

"Bill Gates".. he says "more money was being spent finding a cure for baldness than developing drugs to combat malaria. (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1136463/Theres-reason-poor-people-malaria-The-moment-Bill-Gates-released-jar-mosquitoes-packed-conference.html)"

yeahyeahyeah
08-28-2012, 11:16 AM
two words...

"Bill Gates".. he says "more money was being spent finding a cure for baldness than developing drugs to combat malaria. (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1136463/Theres-reason-poor-people-malaria-The-moment-Bill-Gates-released-jar-mosquitoes-packed-conference.html)"



Gates said more money was being spent finding a cure for baldness than developing drugs to combat malaria.
'Now, baldness is a terrible thing and rich men are afflicted,' he joked. 'That is why that priority has been set.



Idiot.

If he had went bald young he would have been affected mentally.

yeahyeahyeah
08-28-2012, 11:39 AM
One word..

"Microsoft".. They spend billions and there products don't work..

After windows was established.

Their first product was good, it had to be.

producto
08-28-2012, 04:27 PM
Idiot.

If he had went bald young he would have been affected mentally.

I don't like hair loss either, but get it together. Dying of malaria in some god-forsaken third world country is a hell of a lot worse then a shiny bald head.

Sorry for hijacking the thread, but seriously.

Pate
08-30-2012, 01:56 AM
Having had malaria at approximately the same time I started balding, I can attest that for me, balding was by far the more traumatic experience emotionally. ;)

But maybe that's because I always knew I'd eventually get cured of malaria... and sure enough I did.

gmonasco
08-30-2012, 11:11 AM
You can't compare the two. By this point coca cola was an established product, so they took a gamble. Aderans are creating their flagship product.

Coca-Cola radically altered their flagship product into something very different. The two are directly comparable.

And this is neither Aderans' first product nor its flagship product. Aderans is a decades-old company whose flagship product is wigs.

yeahyeahyeah
08-30-2012, 11:51 AM
Coca-Cola radically altered their flagship product into something very different. The two are directly comparable.

And this is neither Aderans' first product nor its flagship product. Aderans is a decades-old company whose flagship product is wigs.

...

It is their first product for hair cloning.

gmonasco
08-30-2012, 12:24 PM
It is their first product for hair cloning.

So what? You've dismissed every other counter-example by claiming that the company mentioned was already established, or that the referenced product wasn't their first one. All the same is true for Aderans.

A hair multiplication product will no doubt be a huge boon to Aderans if it proves successful. But it's not their first product, it's not their only product, it's not their main product, and it won't kill the company if it doesn't pan out.

UK_
10-01-2012, 02:54 PM
So what? You've dismissed every other counter-example by claiming that the company mentioned was already established, or that the referenced product wasn't their first one. All the same is true for Aderans.

A hair multiplication product will no doubt be a huge boon to Aderans if it proves successful. But it's not their first product, it's not their only product, it's not their main product, and it won't kill the company if it doesn't pan out.

You say that, and we know Aderans is apart of a large corporation with a heck of a lot of financial backing.

But reading this article, why do they need to attend conferences to ask other people for money if they're apart of such a big financially sound company?

http://www.ctpost.com/news/article/Biotech-event-brings-more-than-125-to-Stamford-3890289.php


One of those in the audience Monday was Vern Liebmann, chief operating officer at Aderans Research of Marietta, Ga., a company working on a cellular-based treatment to reinvigorate hair growth.

Liebmann said he attends about four similar events a year with a prime goal of obtaining funding to advance the treatment from Phase 2 testing to the marketplace.

"We see how we can share knowledge and information," said Liebmann, who returned to Stamford after many years and was impressed by its growth.

gmonasco
10-01-2012, 03:41 PM
why do they need to attend conferences to ask other people for money if they're apart of such a big financially sound company?

Because "Company A is a subsidiary of Corporation X" doesn't mean "Company A is completely funded by Corporation X." Corporations typically expect their subsidiaries to succeed (or fail) on their own; they don't just pump unlimited capital into them year after year.

Aderans Inc. set up Aderans Research Institute, Inc. (ARI) back in 2002 and provided ARI with $400,000 of seed capital. An on ongoing basis, though, ARI needs to come up with its own operating capital, which includes finding partners to help defray the costs of conducting clinical trials.

Joker
10-07-2012, 10:37 AM
So it's been more than 6 months since Aderans has issued any sort of update, which is the longest gap in communication since early 2009.

I really wish they'd say something about their clinical trial results/updated commercialization timeline (if they're still planning to commercialize). I know I'm reading WAY too much into this, but I hope this isn't a bad sign... this wait is killing me!

Sorry, just venting. It's been a bad week.

Person
10-07-2012, 11:37 AM
In my personal opinion, Aderans is a waste of time. I definitely would not consider waiting around on them. They are FAR from finished. Realistically 2018. I used to research them then I realized how much more they have to do and how shady of a company aderans is. Its a lot of money raising and little progress. Seems like a money making scheme. Just my opinion though.

Joker
10-07-2012, 12:28 PM
That's a fine opinion to have, but are we talking about the same company? Aderans is conducting large-scale clinical trials, which to me seems like respectable progress. I mean, it's slow and we have no idea how effective their treatment is, but it's more than we can say for most companies... sadly... :(

Kiwi
10-08-2012, 04:35 AM
In my personal opinion, Aderans is a waste of time. I definitely would not consider waiting around on them. They are FAR from finished. Realistically 2018. I used to research them then I realized how much more they have to do and how shady of a company aderans is. Its a lot of money raising and little progress. Seems like a money making scheme. Just my opinion though.

What a silly little opinion that you that you have.

Even if they raised twice as much America's stupid outdated FDA process is what will actually slow this all down.

Hazah for American red tape!!!
Not.

UK_
10-08-2012, 04:44 AM
So it's been more than 6 months since Aderans has issued any sort of update, which is the longest gap in communication since early 2009.

I really wish they'd say something about their clinical trial results/updated commercialization timeline (if they're still planning to commercialize). I know I'm reading WAY too much into this, but I hope this isn't a bad sign... this wait is killing me!

Sorry, just venting. It's been a bad week.

They'll also be talking at the Bahamas conference on October 17 - 20, if you're looking for a finalised update from their phase 2 trial then it'll likely be February 2013 at the very least.

UK_
10-08-2012, 04:47 AM
In my personal opinion, Aderans is a waste of time. I definitely would not consider waiting around on them. They are FAR from finished. Realistically 2018. I used to research them then I realized how much more they have to do and how shady of a company aderans is. Its a lot of money raising and little progress. Seems like a money making scheme. Just my opinion though.

Yes the same scam company that purchased Hair Club for a price of 163m USD, remember this is what they had to say on the matter:


Aderans:"Acquiring Hair Club is an important step in our previously announced strategic shift away from focusing on business reorganization to emphasizing global revenue and profit expansion.”

Clearly, given that the HT and wig market has been saturated for so many years, they're referring to new technologies when they talk of "profit expansion", new technologies of the kind that have been in theoretical and practical development for over 30 years.

Dan26
10-08-2012, 02:33 PM
I really have not been following Aderans, so I just want to ask someone who has been, when they believe it will be on market by, and what kind of results they have achieved.

UK_
10-08-2012, 03:23 PM
I really have not been following Aderans, so I just want to ask someone who has been, when they believe it will be on market by, and what kind of results they have achieved.

They're currently in phase 2, with an efficacy rate of around 70% (works in the majority of patients) however this update was way back in late 2010 so I am guessing they may have seen better results.

Possible release? They stated 2014 as a release date back in 2010, but I'm not too sure, if everything goes to plan we're probably realistically looking at a late 2015/early 2016 release.

Person
10-08-2012, 03:26 PM
I hate to be negative, but im also a realistic person. I follow aderans.

They are the definition of the "always 5 years away company". Quote me right now, in 2016 they will still be in phase II raising funds for Phase 3.

Alf
10-10-2012, 06:09 AM
To be honest I will cry if aderans doesn't make it. Not because of being bald sucks, but i have gotten my hopes so much up.

534623
10-10-2012, 07:47 AM
http://www.*************/hair-loss/img/uploaded/2879_image746.jpg
http://www.aderansresearch.com/pdfs/AtlBusChronAug11.pdf

They have already invested nearly $100 million?
~55 people in a 27,000-square-foot building?

What the hell have they done more than 10 years? :rolleyes:

In the past, I really had high hopes for the Aderans guys, but the more I read about their science/knowledge in all their papers and patents during the past 3 years, I sometimes got the feeling that they still work completely in the dark.

bigentries
10-10-2012, 08:55 AM
I hate to be negative, but im also a realistic person. I follow aderans.

They are the definition of the "always 5 years away company". Quote me right now, in 2016 they will still be in phase II raising funds for Phase 3.

Funds would not be a problem if they had a product worth of moving to phase 3

From all the companies involved in HM, they already have the infrastructure to commercialize a product as soon as possible with the biggest profit. The only thing they lack is a product that works

yeahyeahyeah
10-10-2012, 09:15 AM
Funds would not be a problem if they had a product worth of moving to phase 3

From all the companies involved in HM, they already have the infrastructure to commercialize a product as soon as possible with the biggest profit. The only thing they lack is a product that works

My money is on histogen.

Dazza
10-10-2012, 09:55 AM
If you read histogen's latest patient aderans have been supplying them with human hair follicle cells.

bigentries
10-10-2012, 11:15 AM
My money is on histogen.

They are the only ones that have shown a cosmetically relevant result

Super close up pictures are great for graphics and the scientific side, but the bottom line is that, everyone wants to know how our scalp is going to look to a complete stranger some feets away.

gmonasco
10-10-2012, 12:02 PM
Funds would not be a problem if they had a product worth of moving to phase 3

Not so. Phase 3 testing alone eats up 90% of the costs of conducting clinical trials:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/aroy/2012/04/25/how-the-fda-stifles-new-cures-part-ii-90-of-clinical-trial-costs-are-incurred-in-phase-iii/

bigentries
10-10-2012, 12:14 PM
Not so. Phase 3 testing alone eats up 90% of the costs of conducting clinical trials:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/aroy/2012/04/25/how-the-fda-stifles-new-cures-part-ii-90-of-clinical-trial-costs-are-incurred-in-phase-iii/

Yes, but Bosley has enough money or can get a credit if they need it

If it was any other company, I would agree, as they would need to talk to potential partners or just sell the product to a bigger company, but I'm pretty sure Bosley wants all the profits for themselves, which is bad news for potential customers if whatever Aderans is testing really works

garethbale
10-10-2012, 04:22 PM
I've no idea if and when Aderans will get to market, but I tend not to take anything Ken Washenik (their MD I think) says too seriously. I remember seeing a video in early 2008 of him proclaiming that hair multiplication could be with is in late 2009 / early 2010. I thought it was BS at the time, and therefore I've no reason to have much confidence in a possible solution (at least from Aderans) of being available in 2 or 3 years.

Joker
10-10-2012, 07:10 PM
Hi guys,

In lieu of any new information, I just wanted to run some ideas by everyone with regard to commercialization.

I think hellouser's conversation about an extra 2-3 years of FDA oversight might be true, unfortunately.

On LinkedIn, the Director for Regulatory Affairs has the following statement on his profile regarding his work with Aderans:

"Leading a team of junior Regulatory and Clinical Affairs staff to beat 7 years of timelines and challenges while embracing startup mentality and creativity to gain back time and dollars to get to market."

He was hired in March of 2011, 8 months after Aderans speculated on a 2014 commercialization date. Perhaps within that 8 months they encountered FDA complications and hired this guy to help out? The 7 years statement seems a bit ominous and I'm not really sure what to make of it...

Dan26
10-10-2012, 10:05 PM
Remember yall, money talks and bullshit walks. If they have something that works, and have the financial backing to bring it to market knowing it will be successful, it'll happen in due time. They have one of the two it seems for now ahah.

534623
10-19-2012, 08:07 AM
The problem everyone has RIGHT NOW, is that in order to get a HT you need to be taking propecia - which requires us to mess around with our hormones. This should no longer be the case with Aderans treatment.

Here is what Mr. Tom Hanks is thinking about your comment:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjakaPkXghk

Oops, sorry for my post, but actually I desperate tried to find the impressive Aderans results in this thread ...


Aderans is a potential solution as well and according to their press release in 2010 IIRC, their target date for a consumer product is early 2014.

Their results have been impressive as well, you'll need to look through the Aderans thread for all the details, theres a lot to go over.

Anyway, it seems Mr. Hanks is thinking the same about these comments/post/quote.

yeahyeahyeah
10-19-2012, 03:53 PM
Any news from Aderans, they were presenting at the ISHRS

534623
10-20-2012, 07:05 AM
Any news from Aderans, they were presenting at the ISHRS

Yes, the presented a video with patient results - here it is ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7SwA1ENqxI

Artista
10-20-2012, 07:10 AM
I guess that was supposed to be funny 534623

534623
10-20-2012, 07:27 AM
I guess that was supposed to be funny 534623

Unfortunately (because I myself had big hopes for the ARI guys in the past), nothing around Aderans is "funny" - maybe in 10-15 years.

Person
10-20-2012, 09:29 AM
Why are there so many posts about Aderans? It is a damn joke. It will not realistically be available until 2025 and they are always moving at a snails pace and raising lots of money (sounds like a scam) so why does anyone care. Sorry for the negativity but seriously.

Joker
10-20-2012, 10:23 AM
http://stemcellmeetingonthemesa.com/investor-and-partnering-forum/agenda/

I know nothing ever comes out of these meetings (certainly nothing came out of yesterday's ISHRS presentation), but I figured I would post this anyways. Aderans is speaking after the plenary session on clinical milestones.

Desmond84
10-20-2012, 06:47 PM
OK guys, somethings up I think.

I had a look at Aderans website under news and I noticed that ever since March 2009 they had at least 1 update every 2 months. But then it died on January 2012. Not a word for the last 9 months!!!

What's happening? Are they stuck? :(

gutted
10-20-2012, 06:56 PM
OK guys, somethings up I think.

I had a look at Aderans website under news and I noticed that ever since March 2009 they had at least 1 update every 2 months. But then it died on January 2012. Not a word for the last 9 months!!!

What's happening? Are they stuck? :(

they probably realised HM is a technology that can easily be wiped out of the industry should the true cause of baldness be identified and the pathway to reverse mpb is exploited through biotechnology.

although HM and HT's are a potential solution for burn victims etc the market size is significantly reduced.

534623
10-22-2012, 11:13 AM
OK guys, somethings up I think.

I had a look at Aderans website under news and I noticed that ever since March 2009 they had at least 1 update every 2 months. But then it died on January 2012. Not a word for the last 9 months!!!

What's happening? Are they stuck? :(

Actually, THIS is a point concerning Aderans (actually Unihair or ARI for "Aderans Research Institute") where I appreciate their "silence". I mean, if they simply DON'T have something "exciting" to show or to report - would it make sense, instead of, to publish utter BULLSHIT (http://www.fileden.com/files/2012/3/15/3278666/Histogen-SID-2) just due to "pressure" ? :rolleyes:

Something to think - I think ...

NotBelievingIt
10-22-2012, 11:20 AM
Baby Biotechs can often go a long time without releasing information. Its no big deal. You have to worry about companies who are constantly updating about stuff because they are likely doing it to influence the stock price.

While they can't really be called out on manipulation because they are doing something perfectly legal....thats usually what the reasoning is.

If a company is private, it has no need to blather online because it is likely well funded and doesn't need to promote whatever it is that it is doing.

hellouser
10-22-2012, 11:49 AM
Actually, THIS is a point concerning Aderans (actually Unihair or ARI for "Aderans Research Institute") where I appreciate their "silence". I mean, if they simply DON'T have something "exciting" to show or to report - would it make sense, instead of, to publish utter BULLSHIT (http://www.fileden.com/files/2012/3/15/3278666/Histogen-SID-2) just due to "pressure" ? :rolleyes:

Something to think - I think ...

Pure speculation.

Joker
10-24-2012, 03:08 PM
Hey guys,

I called another Aderans facility (in OH) to get more information.

The screener on the phone didn't know too much specific information, but said "this is the last phase" and "we only do trials for the last phase before it hits the market, so this treatment has been tested before."

They are looking for people who are completely bald in the crown.

Once again, this is imperfect information so take it with a grain of salt. Hopefully these sites truly are in Phase 3. There seem to be a few of them now saying the same things, so I guess that's better than nothing. We'll just have to wait for official word from Aderans before we can get excited.

Desmond84
10-24-2012, 04:09 PM
Hey guys,

I called another Aderans facility (in OH) to get more information.

The screener on the phone didn't know too much specific information, but said "this is the last phase" and "we only do trials for the last phase before it hits the market, so this treatment has been tested before."

They are looking for people who are completely bald in the crown.

Once again, this is imperfect information so take it with a grain of salt. Hopefully these sites truly are in Phase 3. There seem to be a few of them now saying the same things, so I guess that's better than nothing. We'll just have to wait for official word from Aderans before we can get excited.

Hey Joker,

I just ran a search through clinicaltrials.gov and found this study that is still ongoing for Aderans Ji Gami CN version. Ohio is listed as a study site and it is a PHASE II study. Estimated completion date is April 2013.

Let's hope we see some AWESOME results from this man! Life will be sweet :)

Here's the link to the study:

http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT01669746?term=ji+gami&rank=2

Joker
10-24-2012, 07:26 PM
Hey Desmond, thanks for the link. I've already seen those studies posted, but I'm not 100% certain that they are the same ones which are currently recruiting.

I say this for a few reasons:

1) Me and Hellouser called sites in FL and AZ and were told they were in Phase 3. They also said that other sites were still in Phase 2. There seems to be some variability among the locations.
2) The site I contacted in OH that said they were in the final stage before commercialization was in Cincinnati, not the one in Akron listed on the clinical trials page.
3) The clinical trials page still says that certain sites haven't even started recruiting yet. If that's true, there is no way it will finish in February 2013. I feel as though (and certainly hope) the clinical trials site is not always frequently updated.
4) If they HAVE started recruiting for Phase 3, this would match perfectly with the timeline they released in June 2010 and re-released in September 2011.

I'm not trying to spread false hope or anything, it's just that the facts we have are inconsistent and it's difficult to tell if Aderans is strictly in Phase 2 or if they are silently making a move to Phase 3. I really wish we'd have some form of conclusive evidence like a press release or a listing on clinicaltrials.gov. Let's just continue to keep our fingers crossed until we know for sure!

Joker
10-24-2012, 07:37 PM
Another thing I can't reconcile is the press release from March 2012 that said they finished recruiting for a Phase 2 trial, and yet there was no corresponding trial on clinicaltrials.gov around that time.

It seems to me like the type of trials Aderans is doing are very complicated and fluid, and they don't really "fit" into the classifications on clinicaltrials.gov.

Whatever, maybe I'm just being optimistic. I really have no idea what's going on with this company...

yeahyeahyeah
10-24-2012, 07:51 PM
Hey Desmond, thanks for the link. I've already seen those studies posted, but I'm not 100% certain that they are the same ones which are currently recruiting.

I say this for a few reasons:

1) Me and Hellouser called sites in FL and AZ and were told they were in Phase 3. They also said that other sites were still in Phase 2. There seems to be some variability among the locations.
2) The site I contacted in OH that said they were in the final stage before commercialization was in Cincinnati, not the one in Akron listed on the clinical trials page.
3) The clinical trials page still says that certain sites haven't even started recruiting yet. If that's true, there is no way it will finish in February 2013. I feel as though (and certainly hope) the clinical trials site is not always frequently updated.
4) If they HAVE started recruiting for Phase 3, this would match perfectly with the timeline they released in June 2010 and re-released in September 2011.

I'm not trying to spread false hope or anything, it's just that the facts we have are inconsistent and it's difficult to tell if Aderans is strictly in Phase 2 or if they are silently making a move to Phase 3. I really wish we'd have some form of conclusive evidence like a press release or a listing on clinicaltrials.gov. Let's just continue to keep our fingers crossed until we know for sure!

More people should make a phone call to those sites to verify it.

2020
10-24-2012, 08:09 PM
There is no way this would be their last trial...

yeahyeahyeah
10-24-2012, 08:16 PM
There is no way this would be their last trial...

Why are you so ****ing negative.

You have nothing positive to say about ANYTHING.

Really ****ing annoying.

Desmond84
10-24-2012, 08:33 PM
Why are you so ****ing negative.

You have nothing positive to say about ANYTHING.

Really ****ing annoying.

LMAO...you know I kind of like 2020. He reminds me of Marvin (the Robot) in Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy :)

So grime and funny at the same time. I dare you guys to watch this and not see the resemblance! LOL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lH7XCghlH7M

Alf
10-25-2012, 01:56 AM
Anyone knows how many consultations you have to take if you participate?

Alf
10-25-2012, 06:20 AM
1) Me and Hellouser called sites in FL and AZ and were told they were in Phase 3.
I don't want to be negative, but i'm not so sure if the people you spoke with gave the correct information. Just think of inside traiding if they are just giving such information to only those who asks. I mean starting phase 3 must have an impact on the stock of aderans?

yeahyeahyeah
10-25-2012, 07:37 AM
I don't want to be negative, but i'm not so sure if the people you spoke with gave the correct information. Just think of inside traiding if they are just giving such information to only those who asks. I mean starting phase 3 must have an impact on the stock of aderans?

How is this insider trading when they are actually in phase 3 in x place?

Only because they haven't made an official news announcement does not make it insider trading. Because afterall they are in the process of recruiting participants. For all they know he could be a potential one.

JJacobs152
10-25-2012, 08:37 AM
yeahyeahyeah, what's the latest news and development with Aderans?

yeahyeahyeah
10-25-2012, 10:36 AM
yeahyeahyeah, what's the latest news and development with Aderans?

They are in phase 2.

Not much else has been officially released, aside from them getting 100m funding.

Joker
10-25-2012, 01:35 PM
Real quick, just to correct one of the most common pieces of misinformation posted on these forums...

Aderans never received 100 million dollars of funding. The article says they invested a current total of 100 million dollars developing their technology (i.e. from 2002 to 2012, Aderans spent 100 million dollars). This is not the same thing as an investment round.

hellouser
10-25-2012, 02:08 PM
Real quick, just to correct one of the most common pieces of misinformation posted on these forums...

Aderans never received 100 million dollars of funding. The article says they invested a current total of 100 million dollars developing their technology (i.e. from 2002 to 2012, Aderans spent 100 million dollars). This is not the same thing as an investment round.

100 million dollars in spending and buying out bosley, hair club, etc looks like theyre onto something. They should be finishing up all their Phase II trials by february 2013 and Phase III results should be done about a year after.

Lets hope they dont hit any roadblocks :)

yeahyeahyeah
10-25-2012, 02:13 PM
100 million dollars in spending and buying out bosley, hair club, etc looks like theyre onto something. They should be finishing up all their Phase II trials by february 2013 and Phase III results should be done about a year after.

Lets hope they dont hit any roadblocks :)

The only problem is , we all will need to get HTs from bosley if this comes to fruitation.

Kiwi
10-25-2012, 03:09 PM
100 million dollars in spending and buying out bosley, hair club, etc looks like theyre onto something. They should be finishing up all their Phase II trials by february 2013 and Phase III results should be done about a year after.

Lets hope they dont hit any roadblocks :)

Lets hope. But the point is clinical trials are meant to be the time where you hit any blocks. So hopefully all blocks are dealt with :P

Alf
10-25-2012, 03:45 PM
The only problem is , we all will need to get HTs from bosley if this comes to fruitation.
Is that a problem?

yeahyeahyeah
10-25-2012, 04:45 PM
Is that a problem?

They do shoddy HT, so yes.

gmonasco
10-25-2012, 05:39 PM
Why would getting a hair loss treatment from Aderans mean one would also have to get a hair transplant from Bosley?

yeahyeahyeah
10-25-2012, 05:41 PM
Why would getting a hair loss treatment from Aderans mean one would also have to get a hair transplant from Bosley?

Its bosley backed, so likely to hit bosleys shelves first.

gmonasco
10-25-2012, 05:51 PM
But Aderans' product is a hair multiplication treatment, not a hair transplant.

yeahyeahyeah
10-25-2012, 05:58 PM
But Aderans' product is a hair multiplication treatment, not a hair transplant.

After they multiply the hairs. Somebody will need to transplant them.

gmonasco
10-25-2012, 06:19 PM
Aderan's treatment involves cultivating cells that are injected into the scalp to elicit new hair growth. There's no transplantation involved.

yeahyeahyeah
10-25-2012, 06:23 PM
Aderan's treatment involves cultivating cells that are injected into the scalp to elicit new hair growth. There's no transplantation involved.

No they take a strip of skin with hair follicles, cultivate the follicle in a lab (essentially multiplying the # of follicles) and than transplant it into the scalp.

hellouser
10-25-2012, 06:27 PM
Aderan's treatment involves cultivating cells that are injected into the scalp to elicit new hair growth. There's no transplantation involved.

This.

The acquisition of Bosley is a safe bet that will not be for hair transplants but used as locations/facilities to execute their procedure. Of course, I'm sure hair transplants will still be an option for others. I expect the price of hair transplants to drop in price once Aderans DOES get their product out for consumers.

clarence
10-25-2012, 06:28 PM
No they take a strip of skin with hair follicles, cultivate the follicle in a lab (essentially multiplying the # of follicles) and than transplant it into the scalp.

Sh#t, I was thinking buzzing my head, at least the sides and the back, when hair multiplication became available. Another one down the drain. Guess there's little hope for those who like to buzz it?

gmonasco
10-25-2012, 06:29 PM
No they take a strip of skin with hair follicles, cultivate the follicle in a lab (essentially multiplying the # of follicles) and than transplant it into the scalp.

No, they don't:

http://www.aderansresearch.com/ari_science.html


During this process, often called hair multiplication or hair cloning, a small piece of tissue is removed from the neckline. Cells are cultivated in controlled conditions where they are encouraged to multiply by the addition of proprietary growth media. When enough new cells are formed, they are returned to the scalp, where they are injected and elicit new hair growth and thickness, ultimately producing more hair than the client had before.

Injecting newly-formed cells into the scalp to produce hair growth is not a form of "transplant."

yeahyeahyeah
10-25-2012, 07:28 PM
No, they don't:

http://www.aderansresearch.com/ari_science.html



Injecting newly-formed cells into the scalp to produce hair growth is not a form of "transplant."

And this will give you a full set of hair?

hellouser
10-25-2012, 08:47 PM
And this will give you a full set of hair?

The answer to that question..... I wish someone had.

gmonasco
10-25-2012, 11:59 PM
And this will give you a full set of hair?

Maybe, maybe not. Either way, it won't obligate you to get a hair transplant from Bosley.

UK_
10-27-2012, 09:17 AM
I thought Aderans had a section at the ISHRS in Bahamas?

Anyone know what they said?

Alf
10-27-2012, 02:52 PM
In phase 3 would it not be natural to use aderans on large parts of the head an even on completely bald people?

Desmond84
10-27-2012, 04:44 PM
In phase 3 would it not be natural to use aderans on large parts of the head an even on completely bald people?

They probably have already! You have to try that in your safety & efficacy trial (Phase 2) before you do it in Phase 3 or the Ethics committees will not allow you to try it in a large population.



I thought Aderans had a section at the ISHRS in Bahamas?

Anyone know what they said?

I really hope we get an update before Xmas! That would make me the happiest man this xmas eve. Did Spencer go to the conference?

Alf
10-28-2012, 01:41 AM
They probably have already! You have to try that in your safety & efficacy trial (Phase 2) before you do it in Phase 3 or the Ethics committees will not allow you to try it in a large population.


Great!

10 char

Joker
10-30-2012, 01:59 PM
Excuse my neuroticism, but I'm desperate for any form of update right now.

Has anyone else been able to contact a research facility to find out more about which phase Aderans is recruiting for?

707.542.1469 - Santa Rosa, CA (Still recruiting.)
314.692.2100 - St. Louis, MO (Still recruiting.)
520.885.6793 - Tucson, AZ (Where hellouser was told Phase 3.)
727.544.6367 - St. Petersburg, FL (Where I was told Phase 3.)
513.247.5577 - Cincinnati, OH (Where I was told "the last phase.")

I'm having trouble reconciling the following conditions:

1) In March of this year Aderans said they COMPLETED enrollment for an important Phase 2 trial that put their total number of participants over 350. There is no corresponding clinicaltrials.gov page for any trial that started around this time.
2) On clinicaltrials.gov Aderans says their most recent trial is a Phase 2 trial, but it only started recruiting in June and continued to recruit when the page was last updated this August (4 months after the Aderans press release).
3) On the phone, on three occasions, "Phase 3" or "the last phase" was used in conversation.
4) On the phone, on one occasion, "Phase 2" was used in conversation.

NOTE: The most recent Aderans trial says it started in June, but it was not received by clinicaltrials.gov until August. Some other studies started 2 or 3 years before they were received by clinicaltrials.gov. Is it possible that new trials could have started, but they also have not been received by clinicaltrials.gov? I know, I know. Unlikely. Just hopelessly optimistic speculation...

HELP US, SPENCER! lol