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BaldingJugZ
04-11-2011, 09:23 AM
Anyone ever heard of a supposed new anti-androgenic drug called CB-03-01?

I've looked into it and read a few threads on the subject.

Apparently, it is still in the next phase of testing. However, there is a few Chinese labs producing it at a hefty price.

So, was just wondering if anyone has bought it from China and how they went about getting it into a topical solution? (as it's in crystal form)

Any thoughts on it?

mlao
04-11-2011, 10:02 AM
At this stage I think it's a bad idea. All those guys on *** and HLH never post a lot of pictures of their success on things like RU58841. Now they are trying to go in on a group buy for CB-03-01 from the same labs that they buy the RU from.
Don't get me wrong I hope it works and they show great results but even Cosmos the company that owns the patent and is doing the clinical trials hasn't released any photo evidence of results. Nor is there an established method on how to use it. I would wait.

Kirby_
01-27-2013, 05:20 PM
Update from Cosmo.

http://www.cosmopharma.com/~/media/Files/C/Cosmo-Pharmaceuticals/ir/presentations/25-01-2013/RDDAY_25JAN13_v5.pdf

Thinning87
01-27-2013, 09:46 PM
very interesting, this would be a topical application and wouldn't affect the 5 alpha reductase, in that way causing less side effects (correct me if I'm wrong)

NotBelievingIt
01-27-2013, 09:54 PM
very interesting, this would be a topical application and wouldn't affect the 5 alpha reductase, in that way causing less side effects (correct me if I'm wrong)

Nope, you read that correctly. What it reads like it does is binds to the androgen receptors in hair follicile where it is applied, thereby basically taking the place of DHT on the hair follicile.

Fin/Dut bind with 5AR and prevent that enzyme from converting T to DHT, hence side effects. This basically does the same thing, but bypasses the hormone altering.

Who knows what side effects it might have. Your hair might stop falling out, but it might degrade hair quality if active androgen receptors are decreased, thereby decreasing potential protein uptake....

Something interesting to follow.

Thinning87
01-27-2013, 10:22 PM
yeah, or virtually this may be a cure in the sense that if it doesn't have side effects it would pretty much save all the hair or highly slow down MPB.

I see some people were getting some shipped from China, these people are in very early stages of development so I definitely wouldn't try it!

burtandernie
01-27-2013, 10:24 PM
Interesting for all the different timelines people say their projection is early 2015 to be on the market if all goes well. Also for all the talk about vehicles they mention the vehicle they are looking at for the 5% cream.
Nothing is ever certain with this stuff, but I doubt the androgen receptors interact with proteins uptake. They say this chemical gets converted into a natural substance in the blood stream so it seems like sides will be pretty minimal, but again its unpredictable in nature given how complicated this all is.

Kiwi
01-28-2013, 02:42 AM
At this stage I think it's a bad idea. All those guys on *** and HLH never post a lot of pictures of their success on things like RU58841. Now they are trying to go in on a group buy for CB-03-01 from the same labs that they buy the RU from.
Don't get me wrong I hope it works and they show great results but even Cosmos the company that owns the patent and is doing the clinical trials hasn't released any photo evidence of results. Nor is there an established method on how to use it. I would wait.

Except people are posting pictures of RU results...

Pate
01-28-2013, 03:03 AM
Good find thanks Kirby... I saw that R&D day was coming up, I was hoping they'd release a presentation with it.

New info: they FINALLY named the CB partner - Medicis, now Valeant. Never heard of them, time for some research. :D

On the basis of skin permeation test results and of stability test results,
CB-03-01 5% anhydrous solution was selected as the candidate drug
product for the treatment of alopecia.

They have a vehicle for alopecia!!! Excellent news. Anhydrous, which could mean just about anything.

Interesting that they went with the 5% solution even though their POC study indicated there was no significant difference between the 1% and 5% formulation.

March 2014 target for end of Phase II for acne.

For alopecia, March 2015 is end of POC study. From what I can tell "Proof of Concept" clinical trials encompass Phase I and Phase IIa.

That's a bit disappointing. It will be at least 2017 before CB comes out for alopecia. But at least they have a clear path to commercialisation.

burtandernie
01-28-2013, 06:57 PM
Oh I thought since the slides ended at 2015 that is the date it came out. Really not until 2017? Good lord I better go see a derm and get on finasteride or I will never have hair left by then 2017 is a long long time.
If this comes out and is on the shelf next to rogain with minor sides I see this selling a ton and becoming the gold standard. Heck it will answer questions on if stopping T and DHT at the receptor can stop MPB or not and how T affects hair growth for say facial hair or unwanted body hair. It might stop MPB completely forever I mean who really knows.

lilpauly
01-28-2013, 07:27 PM
cb-03-01 is easy to get! its the dam vehicle thats the problem. when i bought cb-03-01 from finfighter it was 340 per gram noe we can get for 150 per gram or cheaper. we trying to find the best possible vehicle for cb

Knockin on NW4
01-29-2013, 05:57 PM
cb-03-01 is easy to get! its the dam vehicle thats the problem. when i bought cb-03-01 from finfighter it was 340 per gram noe we can get for 150 per gram or cheaper. we trying to find the best possible vehicle for cb
And we have PICS of a member who used cb + minox for a whole year, he has had good regrowth using a cream vehicle at 1% . PM lilpauly aka mark if u want to join our community and get in on our Group Buys. We can get CB for $105 per g if we get a large enough order. Everything gets tested. 1 gram will last 100 days @ 1% in a 1ml application. 2% would even be affordable at $105 per gram. We can get any research chem. SABA Gel, vitamin D analogue, RU, ect. We are even working on getting BNP and CNP, plus a HSC alternative. We have a super organized forum with full text libraries on the latest hairloss advancements (not misleading abstracts and bro science). There are no fees, nor requirements to buy products, just rules and etiquette to keep us sufferers civilized. PM Lilpauly, you will regret not joining us.:)

Troy
01-29-2013, 08:27 PM
And we have PICS of a member who used cb + minox for a whole year, he has had good regrowth using a cream vehicle at 1% . PM lilpauly aka mark if u want to join our community and get in on our Group Buys. We can get CB for $105 per g if we get a large enough order. Everything gets tested. 1 gram will last 100 days @ 1% in a 1ml application. 2% would even be affordable at $105 per gram. We can get any research chem. SABA Gel, vitamin D analogue, RU, ect. We are even working on getting BNP and CNP, plus a HSC alternative. We have a super organized forum with full text libraries on the latest hairloss advancements (not misleading abstracts and bro science). There are no fees, nor requirements to buy products, just rules and etiquette to keep us sufferers civilized. PM Lilpauly, you will regret not joining us.:)

Like:)

This community has made me change the way i see the future of hair loss treatments...everything seems to be closer now...

Together we are stronger...as the community evolves, as more people that really try to be proactive about this "disease" join, more possibilities and more effective treatments we achieve!

This community has given us the possibility to better understand other possible treatments, while also given us the possibility to use some of them in the correct way...

As the community grows more and better treatments will be within our reach...

As knockin said if you are interested in get more knowledge about other treatments or be able to get them...contact someone from the community (like lilpauly / marklc2004)

clandestine
01-29-2013, 08:48 PM
Knockin; How is PSI fairing for you? Anything notable since the last update?

Knockin on NW4
01-30-2013, 12:46 PM
Knockin; How is PSI fairing for you? Anything notable since the last update?

My Labpe sponsored trial of preloaded resin PSI is freely discussed @ PHG! anyone who wishes to see my results and discussion, please join our community. Dont let paranoia prevent you from expanding your hairloss knowledge and resources. Labpe supplied me with free psi. Why would any supplier do this if they were scamming? Most research chems are so expensive, people drop them in 2 months, then give negative feedback. Hairloss is one tough cookie. At PHG we dip that bitch in milk. PM Mark.

hellouser
01-30-2013, 03:02 PM
cb-03-01 is easy to get! its the dam vehicle thats the problem. when i bought cb-03-01 from finfighter it was 340 per gram noe we can get for 150 per gram or cheaper. we trying to find the best possible vehicle for cb

How long would 1gram last if used once daily at 1ml, more or less like minoxidil?

Knockin on NW4
01-30-2013, 03:41 PM
How long would 1gram last if used once daily at 1ml, more or less like minoxidil?

Like i said, it depends on the concentration. @ 1% in a 1ml daily app, 1g will last last 100 days. that is 10mg per application. 2% would be 20mg per 1ml app, 5% is 50mg per app.

This reminds me, for all u guys that miss 10-15% minox. We get minoxidil sulphate powder, then u mix however strong you like!

We can get anything! even tretinoin for the wrinkles on your forehead from constant hairline mirror gazing! !! Plus other cutting edge anti aging peptides and even SARMs.

PM lilpauly aka Mark

Knockin on NW4
02-03-2013, 11:50 PM
We now have detailed logs of 2 users getting positive results with CB! And im not talking about maintnance ... im talking about visually impressive, asthetically pleasing regrowth! Freakin awesome! Cant wait to get my hands on some! If u guys aren't excited about an available product, that safely blocks nearly all dht from binding to the androgen recepters in your scalp, doesnt cause gyno or sexual dysfunction, and can be used topicaly ... then something is wrong with you!

hellouser
02-04-2013, 12:08 AM
We now have detailed logs of 2 users getting positive results with CB! And im not talking about maintnance ... im talking about visually impressive, asthetically pleasing regrowth! Freakin awesome! Cant wait to get my hands on some! If u guys aren't excited about an available product, that safely blocks nearly all dht from binding to the androgen recepters in your scalp, doesnt cause gyno or sexual dysfunction, and can be used topicaly ... then something is wrong with you!

Can you post the link to the 2 logs? are there any before/after pictures?

Knockin on NW4
02-04-2013, 12:23 AM
Can you post the link to the 2 logs? are there any before/after pictures?

Of course there are before and after pics! exclusively at PHG! Personally i wouldn't want to put any of my pics on a public forum, that opens yourself up to alot of criticism and accusations about an issue that already destroys your self esteem. You would have to defend yourself from haters calling u a fraud or liar. No sufferer wants to deal with that.

hellouser
02-04-2013, 12:26 AM
Of course there are before and after pics! exclusively at PHG! Personally i wouldn't want to put any of my pics on a public forum, that opens yourself up to alot of criticism and accusations about an issue that already destroys your self esteem. You would have to defend yourself from haters calling u a fraud or liar. No sufferer wants to deal with that.

What is PHG?

Hairismylife
02-04-2013, 03:31 AM
We now have detailed logs of 2 users getting positive results with CB! And im not talking about maintnance ... im talking about visually impressive, asthetically pleasing regrowth! Freakin awesome! Cant wait to get my hands on some! If u guys aren't excited about an available product, that safely blocks nearly all dht from binding to the androgen recepters in your scalp, doesnt cause gyno or sexual dysfunction, and can be used topicaly ... then something is wrong with you!

Knockin...do you mean that a good vehicle has been found?

LongWayHome
02-04-2013, 09:04 AM
Knockin - you have to explain youself or I'm going on self destruction and you're all going with me!!

The Alchemist
02-04-2013, 10:27 AM
We now have detailed logs of 2 users getting positive results with CB! And im not talking about maintnance ... im talking about visually impressive, asthetically pleasing regrowth!!

So post the photos here if you want people to join your forum. There is no reason you can't do that.



Labpe supplied me with free psi. Why would any supplier do this if they were scamming?

You really need to ask why? Because they send you free product to get you on the hook. The spend some money on actual product, send it out as free sample. Once they have you "believing", ie. coming back for more, they switch you over to bogus sh*t and make a boat load of money selling product that's been cut with filler.

greatjob!
02-04-2013, 12:30 PM
What is PHG?

x 2

what is this PHG you speak of

eqvist
02-04-2013, 12:44 PM
x 2

what is this PHG you speak of

x3

What´s PHG?

Knockin on NW4
02-04-2013, 01:01 PM
[QUOTE=The Alchemist;102487]So post the photos here if you want people to join your forum. There is no reason you can't do that.

1st, they are not my photos,

2nd its not my community. I was invited, i love PHG. everyone who joins feels the same way i do.

3rd We have rules and etiquette that every member follows, i.e. posting exclusive content on other boards.


I'm not going to keep playing defense on here. If you actually research CB, then you know how badass it is on paper. we are just now seeing real world results. Study Study Study, then speak.

Personally, i cant touch 5ar reductase inhibitors. they flare my psuedo gyno. CB is the safest AA because it metabolizes into cortexelone once aborbed through the dermis. It doesnt prevent the conversion of T into DHT which gives sexual dysfunction to many people. Now you dont have to even risk it. And now its affordable for anyone. Read the new cosmo release, CB is coming to market for acne soon! The AGA product will follow

clarence
02-04-2013, 01:30 PM
So what we learned so far is that CB is big news for acne sufferers and those who can't tolerate fin. Not much reason yet to get excited, if you're ok with fin, but looking for stuff that will give you regrowth in the hairline before resorting to surgery.

Oh btw, what is PGH?

garethbale
02-04-2013, 01:38 PM
Well I am on fin but I don't think its done a lot. All my hairloss is at the hairline and temples and I haven't regrown anything.

Maybe CB would help.

Cob984
02-04-2013, 01:40 PM
so you already using this stuff then knockin ? if not then why/?

youngin
02-04-2013, 01:43 PM
PHG = Pioneering Hair Growth.

..and lilpauly is not PMable, so why do you keep saying to PM him.

Knockin on NW4
02-04-2013, 02:53 PM
so you already using this stuff then knockin ? if not then why/?

it has been very expensive until now. Our group buy closes in ten days. i will have mine in about 2 - 3 weeks. for a third of the normal price! Most know Im a tight ass with my $!

Knockin on NW4
02-04-2013, 03:22 PM
just send lilpauly, me, dan26, or any other PHG member a visitor's message or whatever, i forgot this board doesnt have pm, sorry for the confusion. i never get on TBT anymore!


here is part of a study explaining why CB is better than other AAs. We have Full text libraries. Most readers on here are lazy, so here is an excerpt.

In this paper we provided the first evidence that the cortexolone17α-propionate(CB-03-01)is a new chemical entity with local and peripherally selective antiandrogenic activities in animals.CB-03-01derives from the parent cortexolone(11-desoxycortisone),a21-C corticosteroid also known as Reichstein’sSubstanceS, which represents a pivotal intermediate in the pathway of the synthesis of glucocorticoids, and which is usually considered devoid of endocrine function, with the exception of a weak glucocorticoid activity[12]. The importance of this work lies in the fact that cortexolone17α-propionate, considered here, shows unexpected pharmacological properties which cannot be demonstrated for the corresponding parent cortexolone. These properties are also of particular interest if compared to ones of the currently available androgen antagonists. When assayed as topical antiandrogen,CB-03-01 resulted highly effective and, when compared to well known androgen antagonists, it was significantly more active than progesterone, finasteride, and even more potent than the pure antiandrogen flutamide. Since CB03-01resulted active toward TP and its active metabolite DHT, the data here in presented suggest that the steroid is able to antagonize the androgenic effects of both hormones.


Its stronger than fin, without the nasty sides.... Dont be silly, this is good for more than just acne sufferers!

clarence
02-04-2013, 04:05 PM
Its stronger than fin, without the nasty sides.... Dont be silly, this is good for more than just acne sufferers!

I'm sure many people would also love to try it together with fin... but how much do you think the market version of CB will differ from what you guys are trying (other than in trustability of the supplier)?

Knockin on NW4
02-04-2013, 05:53 PM
I'm sure many people would also love to try it together with fin... but how much do you think the market version of CB will differ from what you guys are trying (other than in trustability of the supplier)?

the active ingredient will be the same, and tested for purity. only the vehicle when it comes to market may have some variations, and of course a fancy name. different members will trial different vehicles, the crwqm vehicle most used over thw past year actually limit absorbtion, some are trying oleyl alcohol & PG, some dmso & dmi, some a modified cream with better absorbtion, etc.

burtandernie
02-04-2013, 06:20 PM
A lot could happen between now and if it all works out, but in theory CB 03 01 should stop unwanted body hair as well. So they are going to get a good acne,unwanted hair, and hair loss product all in 1 with this. If they get this on the shelf next to rogain without needing a prescription I think they would make a fortune.
Im very curious to see its effect on facial hair or body hair to see how it does slowing or stopping that. I wonder how strong an effect it has on testosterone which might answer questions on how important a role does testosterone play besides just the usual DHT stuff?

clarence
02-04-2013, 06:24 PM
the active ingredient will be the same, and tested for purity. only the vehicle when it comes to market may have some variations, and of course a fancy name. different members will trial different vehicles, the crwqm vehicle most used over thw past year actually limit absorbtion, some are trying oleyl alcohol & PG, some dmso & dmi, some a modified cream with better absorbtion, etc.

Mmm thanks... I'll probably look for future group buys once we've got safer bets on the vehicle, since I'm at the stage of "why get a transplant when there's still so many miniaturized hairs"

The Alchemist
02-04-2013, 10:06 PM
just send lilpauly, me, dan26, or any other PHG member a visitor's message or whatever, i forgot this board doesnt have pm, sorry for the confusion. i never get on TBT anymore!


here is part of a study explaining why CB is better than other AAs. We have Full text libraries. Most readers on here are lazy, so here is an excerpt.

In this paper we provided the first evidence that the cortexolone17α-propionate(CB-03-01)is a new chemical entity with local and peripherally selective antiandrogenic activities in animals.CB-03-01derives from the parent cortexolone(11-desoxycortisone),a21-C corticosteroid also known as Reichstein’sSubstanceS, which represents a pivotal intermediate in the pathway of the synthesis of glucocorticoids, and which is usually considered devoid of endocrine function, with the exception of a weak glucocorticoid activity[12]. The importance of this work lies in the fact that cortexolone17α-propionate, considered here, shows unexpected pharmacological properties which cannot be demonstrated for the corresponding parent cortexolone. These properties are also of particular interest if compared to ones of the currently available androgen antagonists. When assayed as topical antiandrogen,CB-03-01 resulted highly effective and, when compared to well known androgen antagonists, it was significantly more active than progesterone, finasteride, and even more potent than the pure antiandrogen flutamide. Since CB03-01resulted active toward TP and its active metabolite DHT, the data here in presented suggest that the steroid is able to antagonize the androgenic effects of both hormones.


Its stronger than fin, without the nasty sides.... Dont be silly, this is good for more than just acne sufferers!


CB-03-01 has NEVER been proven to grow a single hair or even inhibit hairloss, and that's a fact. It may theoretically sound better than fin but that's never been proven. People have been using CB from other sources and haven't shown much of anything for results. And they've been doing it for quite some time. So take that into consideration.

The guys running the group have every means to rip you off. They can dilute the product buy cutting it with filler, sell double the amount and pocket the profits. You'd never know the difference unless you're willing to pay the exorbitant price to have a structural and purity test done on the material you're given.

These guys, despite claims of "having it tested", have no clue what they're being given. Not a single one of them could interpret an NMR spectra if their life depended on it. Furthermore, just because a small portion of the bulk is tested, doesn't say sh*t about the quality of the bulk. The material is coming from a dubious source of unknown integrity or reputation...and this is compounded by the fact that the practice is illegal.

You should ask yourself why the pictures are being held in private.


Give them your money at your own risk.

Knockin on NW4
02-04-2013, 11:56 PM
CB-03-01 has NEVER been proven to grow a single hair or even inhibit hairloss, and that's a fact. It may theoretically sound better than fin but that's never been proven. People have been using CB from other sources and haven't shown much of anything for results. And they've been doing it for quite some time. So take that into consideration.

The guys running the group have every means to rip you off. They can dilute the product buy cutting it with filler, sell double the amount and pocket the profits. You'd never know the difference unless you're willing to pay the exorbitant price to have a structural and purity test done on the material you're given.

These guys, despite claims of "having it tested", have no clue what they're being given. Not a single one of them could interpret an NMR spectra if their life depended on it. Furthermore, just because a small portion of the bulk is tested, doesn't say sh*t about the quality of the bulk. The material is coming from a dubious source of unknown integrity or reputation...and this is compounded by the fact that the practice is illegal.

You should ask yourself why the pictures are being held in private.


Give them your money at your own risk.


This is almost comical! Mpbtreatments sold a bogus cream to make more money, and it actually impeded aabsorbtion. and they sold cb for nearly 4 times as much as our Group Buys. No one could even afford to use it frequently enough for an extended period of time.

If u think I personally have something to gain here, then you are one silly man.

We got a large enough order already for our discounted price, so we dont need any more members to get the price down. But anyone who still wants to join our pro active hairloss community , just let me know!

tdo
02-05-2013, 10:27 AM
This is almost comical! Mpbtreatments sold a bogus cream to make more money, and it actually impeded aabsorbtion. and they sold cb for nearly 4 times as much as our Group Buys. No one could even afford to use it frequently enough for an extended period of time.

If u think I personally have something to gain here, then you are one silly man.

We got a large enough order already for our discounted price, so we dont need any more members to get the price down. But anyone who still wants to join our pro active hairloss community , just let me know!

Im interested. How do I join your forum?

clandestine
02-05-2013, 11:55 AM
Im interested. How do I join your forum?

Pm littlepauly or Dan26.

The Alchemist
02-05-2013, 07:43 PM
This is almost comical! Mpbtreatments sold a bogus cream to make more money, and it actually impeded aabsorbtion. and they sold cb for nearly 4 times as much as our Group Buys. No one could even afford to use it frequently enough for an extended period of time.

If u think I personally have something to gain here, then you are one silly man.

We got a large enough order already for our discounted price, so we dont need any more members to get the price down. But anyone who still wants to join our pro active hairloss community , just let me know!


Sure dude, because no ones ever been ripped off on the internet before. We'll just take your word for it :rolleyes:

Good luck to those who put their money in this.

Knockin on NW4
02-05-2013, 11:17 PM
Sure dude, because no ones ever been ripped off on the internet before. We'll just take your word for it :rolleyes:

Good luck to those who put their money in this.

what do you suggest we do then? sit around a wait for 5+ years for a miracle cure that may or may not arrive? i started balding around 2004, got on dut right away, got psuedo gyno, tried fin and it did the same. so i ignored it mostly, as everyone assumed by 2010 we would be cured. my hairloss got worse and worse waiting on big pharma to stop f ing us over with hormone manipulation bullcrap. minox doesn't help me but ive been using it for a while now.

now everyone is saying 2017, but who knows?

If u can handle fin, (most can) good for you. but its still just a crutch to slow the whole process.

Im tired of waiting, tired of getting screwed by big pharma and the fda. Im only young once, im 28 now and am headed for nw6. Im through sitting around and doing nothing about it

im tired of being bald, good luck doing nothing about it.

jjo
02-24-2013, 05:56 PM
[QUOTE=Knockin on NW4;102535]just send lilpauly, me, dan26, or any other PHG member a visitor's message or whatever, i forgot this board doesnt have pm, sorry for the confusion. i never get on TBT anymore!


here is part of a study explaining why CB is better than other AAs. We have Full text libraries. Most readers on here are lazy, so here is an excerpt.

In this paper we provided the first evidence that the cortexolone17α-propionate(CB-03-01)is a new chemical entity with local and peripherally selective antiandrogenic activities in animals.CB-03-01derives from the parent cortexolone(11-desoxycortisone),a21-C corticosteroid also known as Reichstein’sSubstanceS, which represents a pivotal intermediate in the pathway of the synthesis of glucocorticoids, and which is usually considered devoid of endocrine function, with the exception of a weak glucocorticoid activity[12]. The importance of this work lies in the fact that cortexolone17α-propionate, considered here, shows unexpected pharmacological properties which cannot be demonstrated for the corresponding parent cortexolone. These properties are also of particular interest if compared to ones of the currently available androgen antagonists. When assayed as topical antiandrogen,CB-03-01 resulted highly effective and, when compared to well known androgen antagonists, it was significantly more active than progesterone, finasteride, and even more potent than the pure antiandrogen flutamide. Since CB03-01resulted active toward TP and its active metabolite DHT, the data here in presented suggest that the steroid is able to antagonize the androgenic effects of both hormones.


This has lots of information for anyone who is a chemist or who can understand it.
Do you have any study's in English? Or can you dumb it down a bunch?

Thanks

burtandernie
02-25-2013, 06:38 PM
Yeah really I have a lot of hope for this. I think CB 03 01 could be the solution to keeping hair for decades because I think propecia proves we are nearly there its just not strong enough to stop DHT and also testosterone can not be left alone.
You get CB as OTC sitting next to rogain with a good marketing campaign and people will be buying it myself included. Just keep it reasonably priced.
I agree though CB 03 01 has a loong way to go right now its proven to do nothing. Its dangerous to use a chemical from an unknown source. Wait a few years for the real product hopefully.

StayThick
02-25-2013, 06:48 PM
I've heard some rumblings about CB but yet to speak to anyone that has actually used it at this point. I would definitely like try this, but there is too many unknown variables at the moment. Like where to buy it, is the source legit, side effects, vehicle to use?

Unfortunately I'm not a chemist, I wouldn't trust myself mixing potions in my house and applying products from China, but I feel this has a ton of upside yet nobody talks about it.

Anybody trying CB at the moment? Where are you buying it? How are you applying it?? Etc..

mpbsucks
03-01-2013, 02:54 AM
And we have PICS of a member who used cb + minox for a whole year, he has had good regrowth using a cream vehicle at 1% . PM lilpauly aka mark if u want to join our community and get in on our Group Buys. We can get CB for $105 per g if we get a large enough order. Everything gets tested. 1 gram will last 100 days @ 1% in a 1ml application. 2% would even be affordable at $105 per gram. We can get any research chem. SABA Gel, vitamin D analogue, RU, ect. We are even working on getting BNP and CNP, plus a HSC alternative. We have a super organized forum with full text libraries on the latest hairloss advancements (not misleading abstracts and bro science). There are no fees, nor requirements to buy products, just rules and etiquette to keep us sufferers civilized. PM Lilpauly, you will regret not joining us.:)

hey man, tell me how to join your forum please. I will be a good contributor...

unwheel
03-01-2013, 04:07 AM
Does anyone know how cost effective cb is? I'm aware it's more expensive per gram than ru but can we use a lower dose to get the same effect? Perhaps use it every two days instead of every day? Right now I'm using about 1.5ml of 5% ru a day and this would be far too expensive for me at current cb prices, even at group buy prices

hellouser
03-01-2013, 07:01 AM
Does anyone know how cost effective cb is? I'm aware it's more expensive per gram than ru but can we use a lower dose to get the same effect? Perhaps use it every two days instead of every day? Right now I'm using about 1.5ml of 5% ru a day and this would be far too expensive for me at current cb prices, even at group buy prices

CB is 2-4X as effective as Finasteride. Per 1ml application, you only need 1% mix as even Cosmo's trials showed a very small difference at 5% from 1%.

Comparing it to RU is difficult since its not as thoroughly tested.

clandestine
03-01-2013, 07:18 AM
CB is 2-4X as effective as Finasteride. Per 1ml application, you only need 1% mix as even Cosmo's trials showed a very small difference at 5% from 1%.

Comparing it to RU is difficult since its not as thoroughly tested.

Have they found an appropriate vehicle yet? Does Cosmo Cream work? Oleum Alcohol?

Cob984
03-01-2013, 07:53 AM
And CB comes with no sides inspite of being so effective? this is just too good to be true, i cant believe cosmo isnt spending every waking minute trying to get a hairloss product out, just doesnt make sense

clandestine
03-01-2013, 07:53 AM
And CB comes with no sides inspite of being so effective? this is just too good to be true, i cant believe cosmo isnt spending every waking minute trying to get a hairloss product out, just doesnt make sense

Pretty sure t will be released for acne first.

hellouser
03-01-2013, 08:35 AM
Have they found an appropriate vehicle yet? Does Cosmo Cream work? Oleum Alcohol?

The vehicle they were using was only stated as 'OL/PG'

PG should be pretty obvious as 'polypropylene glycol' but OL could mean oleum (though isnt that an acid???) or Oleyl.

hellouser
03-01-2013, 08:42 AM
And CB comes with no sides inspite of being so effective? this is just too good to be true, i cant believe cosmo isnt spending every waking minute trying to get a hairloss product out, just doesnt make sense

Its crazy too, I think I read somewhere that their results with CB against acne were mediocre but from what I've seen with CB against hairloss has been ridiculously impressive.

Cob984
03-01-2013, 11:54 AM
WTF? surely a hair loss breakthrough is more media/news worthy than acne trials?
this is just flat out illogical

hellouser
03-01-2013, 12:05 PM
WTF? surely a hair loss breakthrough is more media/news worthy than acne trials?
this is just flat out illogical

Well, not exactly. We still don't know what the vehicle should be for maximum efficacy and we dont know if it works for everyone as well as it did for Cosmo's own patients.

But, from baseline to 4 weeks of application the follicle count went up from 71 to 109 per cm/2 using only a 1% solution. At 5% the density rose from 73 to 111 grafts per cm/2, so its easy to see that not a lot of CB is needed to get the same results (kind of like finasteride).

So, using the one example, density was 54% higher. Whats crazy is that this number is ridiculously higher than even Replicel's initial Phase I results using stem cells! How the hell could THAT be?

CB does look very promising though. Combine that with Minox and maybe even with Keratene/Fin and you should have a ridiculous arsenal against hair loss. I'd throw in RU into the mix, maybe using CB on its own but Minox/RU in a single solution and Keratene every 2nd day just to avoid any potential side effects. Of course, Nizoral and some Saw Palmetto based shampoos should help a little as well.

StayThick
03-01-2013, 12:07 PM
Well, not exactly. We still don't know what the vehicle should be for maximum efficacy and we dont know if it works for everyone as well as it did for Cosmo's own patients.

But, from baseline to 4 weeks of application the follicle count went up from 71 to 109 per cm/2 using only a 1% solution. At 5% the density rose from 73 to 111 grafts per cm/2, so its easy to see that not a lot of CB is needed to get the same results (kind of like finasteride).

So, using the one example, density was 54% higher. Whats crazy is that this number is ridiculously higher than even Replicel's initial Phase I results using stem cells! How the hell could THAT be?

CB does look very promising though. Combine that with Minox and maybe even with Keratene/Fin and you should have a ridiculous arsenal against hair loss. I'd throw in RU into the mix, maybe using CB on its own but Minox/RU in a single solution and Keratene every 2nd day just to avoid any potential side effects. Of course, Nizoral and some Saw Palmetto based shampoos should help a little as well.

Are you using CB personally? If so, through what vehicle and what source are you using to buy it from?

What are your results? I have yet to see anyone on this forum discuss applying this and discussing the results. Anyone? I ask because I'm very interested just clueless on where to buy and how to apply.

hellouser
03-01-2013, 12:22 PM
Are you using CB personally? If so, through what vehicle and what source are you using to buy it from?

What are your results? I have yet to see anyone on this forum discuss applying this and discussing the results. Anyone? I ask because I'm very interested just clueless on where to buy and how to apply.

You can order CB from Kane. It's pricey though, but at 1% (10mg/1ml) will last you about 100 days if you buy 1gram @ $200.

As for vehicle, nobody knows whats best. I'll be trying a combination of Everclear/PG and Oleyl/PG. Others may be using the Cosmo cream, or something else. Right now its tough to say whats best, because nobody knows! I'll be getting CB sometime soon, probably within the next month.

I'll definitely make updates if I get good progress with it though. Hopefully I do, but my regiment will be:

1X Daily Before Bed (midnight): 1ml of CB at 1% (10mg)
1X Daily at 6pm: 1ml of Minoxidil 5% with 50-100mg of RU mixed in as well
2-4X Weekly: Nizoral
1X Daily: 160mg of Saw Palmetto

I may substitute Saw Palmetto with Keratene if I still don't get results. However, I'm still planning a consultation with Dr. Gho to fix my hairline. Hopefully this route will last me 2+ years without any loss, that way I can go for a procedure with Aderans when available (hopefully next year). This would ultimately cure me but lets remain hopeful! I'm currently about NW3 with thinning (though going through a really bad shed right now after switching to 5% Minox from 2% in December). I'm sure it will all grow back considering its most likely just a Minox shed, I cant see how I could lose so much density in 3 months when its taken me 10 years to get to NW3.

UK Boy
03-01-2013, 05:44 PM
I'd love to get on CB but I'm sh*t scared of using untested chemical compounds from illegal labs. This is where the system is so crap - the FDA holds eveything up to make sure stuff is 100% but by holding it up so long they drive people to getting the stuff through dodgy foreignlabs. Surely the safest thing is to allow reputable companies going through clinical trials to start selling it after phase I safety trials. There would be no promises as too efficacy but it'd be up to the consumer, at least it'd be safe and the company could use the profits for continuing trials.

I really don't get why Cosmos are concentrating on acne, there's tonnes of acne treatments. If people are gonna be using 1% for hair does that mean we could use the acne version for hair loss? If so I guess I'll just have ta hold on til that comes.

How comes so many if you feel so safe using untested, illegal chemical compounds. I saw in the other thread Hellouser told someone to "try RU or CB" as if it were totally normal and it was just totally safe OTC stuff that he was talking about.

burtandernie
03-04-2013, 04:55 PM
If CB is actually a super powerful anti androgen that fights with not just DHT but also T and it has some anti inflammatory properties then it could have big results given the right vehicle. MPB is androgens and inflammation if you stop that your stopping MPB. I think CB has the potential to stop MPB forever if its strong enough and Im not sure that is an exaggeration time will tell though its a long uncertain road.
I do wish it works out for acne though because I wouldnt mind seeing acne and MPB both given much better treatments

clandestine
03-04-2013, 05:42 PM
I saw in the other thread Hellouser told someone to "try RU or CB" as if it were totally normal and it was just totally safe OTC stuff that he was talking about.

For many OTC stuff isn't a viable option.

I am, as I sure some others are, unfathomably androgen sansitive. Fin? Gyno symptoms. Even Saw Pametto Complex larger doses? Gyno. RU anything above 30mg? Gyno. In my case, CB or other grey market chemicals are entirely realistic, enticing and potential viable options.

Others who might not be androgen sensitive, but are trialing these chemicals, have faith in sources and purity. Rather sure purity is tested anyway, in these situations.

Just saying; based on studies performed, a lot of people find fin and dut more dangerous than these grey market chemicals. I suppose your fear stems from elsewhere, though (source of chemical itself, purity, resulting efficacy and safety, etc.).

baldnotbeautiful
03-05-2013, 08:37 AM
maybe I'm blind but I can't find CB on Kane...can anyone provide a direct link if it is actually on there?

Only problem with this stuff is it seems even more complicated than RU to make yourself. Heres the directions one guy posted...

You add 1 gram of CB to 24 ml of PG, then add that solution to 75 grams of cream for a 1% formula. A jar contains 100 grams, so 3 jars is the equivalent of 4.



Shake up the CB and PG, until its almost completely dissolved (takes a bit of time, it doesn't dissolve that easily). Next, heat up the cream using a double boiler method, to 30 degrees celcius. I usually heat up to around 35 c, then remove from the stove, add the PG/CB solution, and whisk it all together. Start mixing slow! You don't want the CB solution to splash everywhere. It will turn nice and thick as it cools. Try to whisk as long as you can (Maybe 10 minutes) so its nice and even. As a final step, as a ML of preservative, most of us were using this stuff called "phenonip" A cheap, powerful preservative.

WTF is a double boiler method lol.

JJacobs152
03-05-2013, 10:25 AM
Where do we go to get access to PHG?

StayThick
03-05-2013, 04:43 PM
maybe I'm blind but I can't find CB on Kane...can anyone provide a direct link if it is actually on there?

Only problem with this stuff is it seems even more complicated than RU to make yourself. Heres the directions one guy posted...

You add 1 gram of CB to 24 ml of PG, then add that solution to 75 grams of cream for a 1% formula. A jar contains 100 grams, so 3 jars is the equivalent of 4.



Shake up the CB and PG, until its almost completely dissolved (takes a bit of time, it doesn't dissolve that easily). Next, heat up the cream using a double boiler method, to 30 degrees celcius. I usually heat up to around 35 c, then remove from the stove, add the PG/CB solution, and whisk it all together. Start mixing slow! You don't want the CB solution to splash everywhere. It will turn nice and thick as it cools. Try to whisk as long as you can (Maybe 10 minutes) so its nice and even. As a final step, as a ML of preservative, most of us were using this stuff called "phenonip" A cheap, powerful preservative.

WTF is a double boiler method lol.


Dude, WTF? I'll go bald before I even attempt to do or master that man is doing. No way I'll go through all that effort for something completely unproven..and I thought I was desperate...WOW

baldnotbeautiful
03-05-2013, 08:32 PM
Staythick - anything from your PRP injections? I go next week for mine, feeling like I'm about to waste my money.

StayThick
03-05-2013, 09:07 PM
Staythick - anything from your PRP injections? I go next week for mine, feeling like I'm about to waste my money.

Dude I hear you. You feel exactly how I did prior to the treatment. The way I see it there is some science behind it and to ME it was worth a shot.

I haven't noticed anything since the injections back in early January. To be fair, Dr. Greco advised to wait minimum 4 months before seeing any results. But by looking at my hair now and how it's progressing..I'm not counting on much improvement bro. Being honest man. I come to realize there is a reason why the whole PRP hype died so quick...

clandestine
03-05-2013, 09:37 PM
Dude, WTF? I'll go bald before I even attempt to do or master that man is doing. No way I'll go through all that effort for something completely unproven..and I thought I was desperate...WOW

There are different ways to mix, apply CB depending on vehicle being used. This is one persons experience, with one methodology &vehicle administration.

That said, for a potential 54% density increase, I would do this.

clandestine
03-05-2013, 09:38 PM
Where do we go to get access to PHG?

PM lilpauly.

10doe

baldnotbeautiful
03-07-2013, 02:44 PM
for a diffuse thinner, is this worth trying over RU? Im not currently on anything and I need to start on either RU or CB, but not sure which is better to try at this point.

What are people thinking is the best vehicle for CB, oleyl and PG? Where does one even get oleyl from?

JJacobs152
03-07-2013, 06:38 PM
PM lilpauly.

10doe

1,100 posts later and you're still telling to PM people. The board has disabled private messaging.

Next alternative?

Troy
03-08-2013, 05:20 AM
1,100 posts later and you're still telling to PM people. The board has disabled private messaging.

Next alternative?

Try the PM over HLH...

Marklc2004 or swissTemples

JJacobs152
03-08-2013, 06:20 AM
Try the PM over HLH...

Marklc2004 or swissTemples

thanks just sent a pm to marklc2004 on hlh. now waiting for a response. forum there is so complicated to use...have a headache now

Troy
03-08-2013, 08:02 AM
thanks just sent a pm to marklc2004 on hlh. now waiting for a response. forum there is so complicated to use...have a headache now

LOL

Don't forget to say who you are and where you post! Your username has to be verified and approved!

Good luck

Jens1986
05-13-2013, 02:41 PM
Any neews on this?

EDB
05-28-2013, 10:26 PM
^ seconded.

Any new info from the people using

Pentarou
05-29-2013, 06:09 PM
What I want to know is how/when we can get news from the company that is developing the real CB-03-01 for market. Do they ever announce anything?

yan
05-29-2013, 06:52 PM
02 Aug 2013, Lainate - Half year results - Maybe also some news about CB-03-01
Jan 2014, Lainate - R&D Day - Detailed infos about all their products, also CB-03-01

Product pipeline: http://www.cosmopharmaceuticals.com/activities/pipeline.aspx

They plan to file an IND for alopecia in January 14. Proof of Concept studies (Phase 1 + 2a) should be finished around March 15.

I just want it now! :(

burtandernie
05-29-2013, 07:41 PM
I think its definitely jumping the gun to cite a pretty small preliminary study they did already as proof it has no sides and is 2 times as strong as finasteride. It could turn out to be true hopefully, but there is a reason they are studying this for years to come its not just to waste time and money.
Very dangerous to use this at the stage this is at. I realize some men are desperate, but if your not I would wait more.

clandestine
05-29-2013, 08:25 PM
I think its definitely jumping the gun to cite a pretty small preliminary study they did already as proof it has no sides and is 2 times as strong as finasteride. It could turn out to be true hopefully, but there is a reason they are studying this for years to come its not just to waste time and money.
Very dangerous to use this at the stage this is at. I realize some men are desperate, but if your not I would wait more.

Desperation stems from the inability to use current treatments, as they have proven entirely ineffective, and even harmful.

Hairismylife
07-01-2013, 10:16 AM
What's the vehicle of CB?

KO1
07-01-2013, 10:19 AM
I think its definitely jumping the gun to cite a pretty small preliminary study they did already as proof it has no sides and is 2 times as strong as finasteride. It could turn out to be true hopefully, but there is a reason they are studying this for years to come its not just to waste time and money.
Very dangerous to use this at the stage this is at. I realize some men are desperate, but if your not I would wait more.

It's a mistake to say it won't have sides, we need to find out what happens with elevated levels of cortexolone in the body.

Otherwise you know, Cosmo is just taking advantage of balding mens' insecurities. LMAO.

tdo
07-01-2013, 11:23 AM
Isnt the hairloss and acne the same formula but just different vehicle?

Arent they already testing this for acne on humans? If they are and there arent any adverse effects for acne, I doubt there would be any for hair loss....

TO YOUNG TO RETIRE
07-01-2013, 11:48 AM
we need to get this,

yan
07-01-2013, 02:12 PM
Well they already tested CB 03 01 for acne in a phase 2 european pilot study. No sides reported, so I assume there wont be any (at least systemic) side effects with the alopecia formula as well.

Phase 2 European Pilot study for acne: http://intrepidthera.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/CB-03-01-Publication-BJD-2011-Trifu-et-al-.pdf

I`m a bit worried about local side effects, especially if you use it for many years. Per example steroid atrophy and other things...

They expect to finish US phase 2 acne tests in Q1 2014, so we will "soon" have more info about possible side effects.

Cory
07-01-2013, 02:17 PM
How strong is CB gonna be, because Histogen didn't provide any great results, Follica, Aderans and Replice are quiet, Tokyo lab is at least decade away, could this formula grow hair on bald scalp?

yan
07-01-2013, 02:26 PM
It`s at best a stronger fin without systemic side effects. Grow hair on bald scalp? Dont think so... CB only blocks DHT + Test, I guess thats not the "real solution", even though it showed like 50% increase in Follicular density (n°/cm2) in early proof of concept studies...

http://www.cosmopharmaceuticals.com/~/media/Files/C/Cosmo-Pharmaceuticals/news/press/pr2010/20101006/2010-10-06_en.pdf

But they applied it twice a week via iontophoresis. No one knows at the moment what results we can expect if used with a topical vehicle.

Cory
07-01-2013, 02:33 PM
It`s at best a stronger fin without systemic side effects. Grow hair on bald scalp? Dont think so... CB only blocks DHT + Test, I guess thats not the "real solution", even though it showed like 50% increase in Follicular density (n°/cm2) in early proof of concept studies...

http://www.cosmopharmaceuticals.com/~/media/Files/C/Cosmo-Pharmaceuticals/news/press/pr2010/20101006/2010-10-06_en.pdf

But they applied it twice a week via iontophoresis. No one knows at the moment what results we can expect if used with a topical vehicle.

That's a problem, I am losing hair and in few yrs I might completely have bald scalp, then what, my best hope are guys from Tokyo, but that's decade away and I'll be 38 yrs old, not old but not really young.

I have no hope of promising treatment coming unexpectedly.

yan
07-01-2013, 02:47 PM
Well if CB is able to keep the hair on your head you have (with some regrow) without major systemic and local side effects, you could easily go for some hair transplants and use CB for years to come until hopefully a final solution arrives (Per example Tokyo guys).

Let me tell you, I`m in a similar situation like you. I tried fin 1 mg for 5 months, got too much sides, stopped it. But now I realized, if I want to profit from future treatments like CB, I have to + / - maintain what I have now.

So I started using fin again 2.5 months ago (0.375mg a week!). Apart from a bit lower libido, no side effects (I had strong sides with 1mg after 3-4 weeks). I have no idea if it stops my hair loss completely, but it slows it for sure and it gives me the feeling that I do something against it, so to be honest, I dont care that much about it at the moment. I shave my head to 5mm every two weeks and I look good and feel amazing ;) I just dont want to be completely bald, NW3-NW4 till CB comes out would be ok for me. I dont need to style my hair, I just shave it short. But between short and nothing is a difference... ;)

Hair transplants: Even though I take a mini dose fin, I would never ever go for a hair transplant, bcs it would force me to take fin for the rest of my life (if CB and others fail) if I dont want to look like shit with hairs in front and rest gone... That could change with CB per example...

I need the option to stop fin if other treatments fail. To take even 0.375mg a week for a decade till Tokyo guys got the solution is crazy. I`m not willing to do that. My hope is CB, if they fail, bye bye hairs and bye bye fin.

KO1
07-01-2013, 08:40 PM
CB is most similar to RU, but with fewer sides.


In theory. Unless you're sensitive to cortisol.

clandestine
07-01-2013, 08:57 PM
CB is most similar to RU, but with fewer sides.


In theory. Unless you're sensitive to cortisol.

Any way to know or test if someone is sensitive to cortisol /corticosteroids?

FearTheLoss
07-01-2013, 09:22 PM
CB is most similar to RU, but with fewer sides.


In theory. Unless you're sensitive to cortisol.

CB also has anti-inflammatory properties...in theory it should be better than anything on the market because it works multiple angles.

KO1
07-02-2013, 07:31 AM
^Ah...high levels of cortisol cause: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cushing%27s_syndrome

If you're sensitive to cortisol, well then...

clandestine
07-02-2013, 09:03 AM
Any way to know or test if someone is sensitive to cortisol /corticosteroids?

KO;

KO1
07-02-2013, 09:05 AM
No idea, sorry.

Desmond84
07-02-2013, 09:14 AM
Any way to know or test if someone is sensitive to cortisol /corticosteroids?

Hey Clan :)

Ppl are generally not sensitive to steroids as it is used for skin sensitivity! However, prolonged use on a daily basis may cause skin atrophy (thinning of the epidermal layer) meaning your skin may break very easily when scratching etc.

CB-03-01 is a ONCE WEEKLY formulation, which may not have such detrimental effects on the skin but then again we don't know! For those lucky ones that tolerate Finasteride, they may be able to switch between fin & CB on a monthly basis to allow the epidermal layer to return to its original density. If you don't tolerate fin (and I know you don't brother) an option would be to apply it ONCE WEEKLY for 3 weeks then allow a ONE WEEK CB-free period before starting this routine again!

That's how we treat kids with severe eczema! 7-10 day drug holiday generally allows their skin to go back to normal.

Hairismylife
07-02-2013, 09:34 AM
Hey Clan :)

Ppl are generally not sensitive to steroids as it is used for skin sensitivity! However, prolonged use on a daily basis may cause skin atrophy (thinning of the epidermal layer) meaning your skin may break very easily when scratching etc.

CB-03-01 is a ONCE WEEKLY formulation, which may not have such detrimental effects on the skin but then again we don't know! For those lucky ones that tolerate Finasteride, they may be able to switch between fin & CB on a monthly basis to allow the epidermal layer to return to its original density. If you don't tolerate fin (and I know you don't brother) an option would be to apply it ONCE WEEKLY for 3 weeks then allow a ONE WEEK CB-free period before starting this routine again!

That's how we treat kids with severe eczema! 7-10 day drug holiday generally allows their skin to go back to normal.

Thanks Desmond!

Once a week, should in what amount?

Dan26
07-02-2013, 09:35 AM
Hey Clan :)

Ppl are generally not sensitive to steroids as it is used for skin sensitivity! However, prolonged use on a daily basis may cause skin atrophy (thinning of the epidermal layer) meaning your skin may break very easily when scratching etc.

CB-03-01 is a ONCE WEEKLY formulation, which may not have such detrimental effects on the skin but then again we don't know! For those lucky ones that tolerate Finasteride, they may be able to switch between fin & CB on a monthly basis to allow the epidermal layer to return to its original density. If you don't tolerate fin (and I know you don't brother) an option would be to apply it ONCE WEEKLY for 3 weeks then allow a ONE WEEK CB-free period before starting this routine again!

That's how we treat kids with severe eczema! 7-10 day drug holiday generally allows their skin to go back to normal.

Hey Desmond, do you know what class steroid CB would be considered comparable too? Potent like beta or clobeatsol? More potent?

clandestine
07-02-2013, 09:39 AM
Thanks so much for the reply Des, the clarification is much appreciated!

Desmond84
07-02-2013, 09:41 AM
Hey Desmond, do you know what class steroid CB would be considered comparable too? Potent like beta or clobeatsol? More potent?

CB's a very unique steroid as it has anti-androgenic properties! No other corticosteroid has such properties, which could mean two things: either it's anti-androgenic properties has made its steroidal activity minimal at best or it has steroidal properties just like any other topical steroids out there!

The only way to answer your question Dan is to conduct a Phase 2 trial, which is happening as we speak! The results should be released by January 2014. We just have to hang tight :) The answers are coming

Desmond84
07-02-2013, 09:45 AM
Thanks so much for the reply Des, the clarification is much appreciated!

No worries Clan ;)


Thanks Desmond!

Once a week, should in what amount?

I don't remember exactly but I'm pretty sure Cosmo Pharmaceuticals tried the 5% formula with outrageous results!

Hairismylife
07-02-2013, 09:52 AM
No worries Clan ;)



I don't remember exactly but I'm pretty sure Cosmo Pharmaceuticals tried the 5% formula with outrageous results!

But, once a week, means 6 CB-free weekday, can't imagine it can help hairloss, as you know minoxidil is to be applied daily to work.

Btw, what vehicle should I use for CB? And 5% means how much CB in how much vehicle, sorry I'm a chemistry idiot:(:(:(

Desmond84
07-02-2013, 10:04 AM
But, once a week, means 6 CB-free weekday, can't imagine it can help hairloss, as you know minoxidil is to be applied daily to work.

Btw, what vehicle should I use for CB? And 5% means how much CB in how much vehicle, sorry I'm a chemistry idiot:(:(:(

It blocks the androgen receptors for about a week before being washed away, hence once weekly dosing :)

With regards to vehicle and strength...it is going to be very difficult to find the right one ATM...so far we know that only ionopheresis can provide adequate topical absorption to halt hairloss. There is no data on other vehicles which makes in-house manufacturing quite difficult!

Ionopheresis is a device that costs $200-$300 and tbh I'm not quite sure how to use it! Has anyone actually tried the ionopheresis method btw?

P.S. No question is stupid to ask? That's why we're here brother

Hairismylife
07-02-2013, 10:18 AM
It blocks the androgen receptors for about a week before being washed away, hence once weekly dosing :)

With regards to vehicle and strength...it is going to be very difficult to find the right one ATM...so far we know that only ionopheresis can provide adequate topical absorption to halt hairloss. There is no data on other vehicles which makes in-house manufacturing quite difficult!

Ionopheresis is a device that costs $200-$300 and tbh I'm not quite sure how to use it! Has anyone actually tried the ionopheresis method btw?

P.S. No question is stupid to ask? That's why we're here brother

Hellouser is using CB but I dunno what vehicle he use, i'm waiting his response

Actually I'm using Mpbt premixed RU but i'm worry about any possible side effect,
is RU such a risky thing that you dont suggest using?

I remember RU has ever passed Phase 1 testing this means that it's safe?

KO1
07-02-2013, 10:46 AM
The key is that androgen receptors take some time to regenerate, but I don't know if that is days or hours. Anyone know?



With regards to vehicle and strength...it is going to be very difficult to find the right one ATM...so far we know that only ionopheresis can provide adequate topical absorption to halt hairloss.


They're using an anhydrous vehicle, so strong chance it could be E/PG. The cream is for acne, but we may not need it.



CB's a very unique steroid as it has anti-androgenic properties! No other corticosteroid has such properties, which could mean two things: either it's anti-androgenic properties has made its steroidal activity minimal at best or it has steroidal properties just like any other topical steroids out there!

It should be milder than other corticosteroids as it becomes converted to cortodoxone which is less potent than cortisol which is far less potent than clobetasol. Just my guess.



I don't remember exactly but I'm pretty sure Cosmo Pharmaceuticals tried the 5% formula with outrageous results!

They have said the 5% formula is for AGA, but where did u see their results out of curiosity?

Hairismylife
07-02-2013, 11:04 AM
The key is that androgen receptors take some time to regenerate, but I don't know if that is days or hours. Anyone know?



They're using an anhydrous vehicle, so strong chance it could be E/PG. The cream is for acne, but we may not need it.



It should be milder than other corticosteroids as it becomes converted to cortodoxone which is less potent than cortisol which is far less potent than clobetasol. Just my guess.



They have said the 5% formula is for AGA, but where did u see their results out of curiosity?

Can use KB solution instead?

KO1
07-02-2013, 11:05 AM
https://www.thieme-connect.com/ejournals/abstract/10.1055/s-0031-1297043


Summary

The aim of this study was to investigate the antiandrogenic activity of a new monoester of cortexolone, cortexolone 17α-propionate (CAS 19608-29-8, CB-03-01). Although the compound displayed a strong local antiandrogenic activity in hamster's flank organ test, it did not exhibit antiandrogenic activity in rats after subcutaneous injection, nor did it affect gonadotropins hypersecretion when injected to parabiotic rats. As topical antiandrogen, the steroid resulted about 4 times more active than progesterone (CAS 57-83-0) and, when compared to known antiandrogen standards, it was about 3 times more potent than flutamide (CAS 13311-84-7), about 2 times more effective than finasteride (CAS 98319-26-7) and approximately as active as cyproterone acetate (CAS 427-51-0). Its pharmacological activity seemed to be primarily related to its ability to antagonistically compete at androgen receptor level; nevertheless its primary pharmacological target needs to be further investigated. Its topical activity, along with the apparent absence of systemic effects, anticipates this compound to have the potential of representing a novel and safe therapeutic approach for androgen-de-pendent skin disorders.

This paper is from 2004 btw. The key is that it should be locally antiandrogenic ONLY.

yan
07-03-2013, 07:05 PM
It blocks the androgen receptors for about a week before being washed away, hence once weekly dosing :)

Where did you read that it blocks receptors for about a week? They applied it twice weekly in the alopecia tests and in acne tests once daily. If true, CB would be even more amazing. Wow just imagine, you spend 10 min a week and keep your hair forever. In my opinion, this is nearly a cure for low norwoods.

I guess they use it once daily for acne bcs of its anti-inflammatory properties? Wouldn't make sense to use it daily if receptors are blocked for a week.

Hairismylife
07-04-2013, 07:29 AM
https://www.thieme-connect.com/ejournals/abstract/10.1055/s-0031-1297043



This paper is from 2004 btw. The key is that it should be locally antiandrogenic ONLY.

Then it should be unsystematic? Glad to here that if it's true:)

Btw, I just think of a question. Now the problem of CB is the vehicle is not so penetrating compared to Cosmo Ion method. Say, 50% less penetrating, so if I double the concentration, I should have the same amount of CB reaching my receptor achieving the same effect. Any conceptual error?

hellouser
07-04-2013, 08:03 AM
Then it should be unsystematic? Glad to here that if it's true:)

Btw, I just think of a question. Now the problem of CB is the vehicle is not so penetrating compared to Cosmo Ion method. Say, 50% less penetrating, so if I double the concentration, I should have the same amount of CB reaching my receptor achieving the same effect. Any conceptual error?

I think doubling the dosage wouldnt give the desired results as Cosmo, probably a little more complicated than that...

hellouser
07-04-2013, 08:06 AM
Ionopheresis is a device that costs $200-$300 and tbh I'm not quite sure how to use it! Has anyone actually tried the ionopheresis method btw?

P.S. No question is stupid to ask? That's why we're here brother

You can make your own ionopheresis device for much less. Check out some youtube tutorial videos.

Scoots
07-04-2013, 08:37 AM
So on the iron dragon website it says they will be selling cb in 5 weeks (Cortexone 17 alpha propionate)...anybody think the vehicle they will be mixing it with will be the right one?

Hairismylife
07-04-2013, 08:52 AM
So on the iron dragon website it says they will be selling cb in 5 weeks (Cortexone 17 alpha propionate)...anybody think the vehicle they will be mixing it with will be the right one?

Are u sure they are selling pre-mixed CB?

KO1
07-04-2013, 12:11 PM
It is a solution, and it is going to be in either Ethanol or DMSO.....

simba
07-28-2013, 04:24 AM
It is a solution, and it is going to be in either Ethanol or DMSO.....

And are these the right vehicles?

burtandernie
07-28-2013, 07:27 PM
Where did you read that it blocks receptors for about a week? They applied it twice weekly in the alopecia tests and in acne tests once daily. If true, CB would be even more amazing. Wow just imagine, you spend 10 min a week and keep your hair forever. In my opinion, this is nearly a cure for low norwoods.

I guess they use it once daily for acne bcs of its anti-inflammatory properties? Wouldn't make sense to use it daily if receptors are blocked for a week.

Yeah I agree here if they find a vehicle that works well, nothing weird comes up, its priced reasonably, and its once a week then this could really be a preventative cure. A preventative cure that is safe is really important. If you cant keep hair your going to be getting expensive transplants or whatever they come up with periodically forever. We need better prevention that is safe and we dont have it now.

burtandernie
07-28-2013, 07:29 PM
If your not worried taking a hormone altering drug for 20 years then you lack common sense about how internal drugs work because how they work exactly no one knows. This CB 03 01 is possibly a safe much more effective way to keep hair. Cant come soon enough. Every year we have to wait is a year too long.
I just really hope they see this through financially and its priced realistic. Im worried its going to cost a ton.

simba
07-29-2013, 01:48 PM
If your not worried taking a hormone altering drug for 20 years then you lack common sense about how internal drugs work because how they work exactly no one knows. This CB 03 01 is possibly a safe much more effective way to keep hair. Cant come soon enough. Every year we have to wait is a year too long.
I just really hope they see this through financially and its priced realistic. Im worried its going to cost a ton.

Well Kane is selling non mixed cb for super cheap, I doubt the vehicle would cost all that much. It just needs to be our NOW

Conpecia
07-29-2013, 04:34 PM
we have to get the dosage and vehicle down pat. this is the savior for guys like me and clandestine.

thechamp
07-30-2013, 02:53 AM
Are you forgetting thechamp also is cb safe ?

Cob984
07-30-2013, 05:57 AM
well iv been on CB form 3 in kb solution at around 15 mg daily for a few weeks,
it doesnt seem to be doing much,
im also on RU 10-15 mg daily but thats too low a dose,
I tried I/C indo is bs, it makes my scalp itch like mad, chromo is v good in that my hair looks better immediately unfortunately i get huge dark circles under my eyes, it fks my face up so i had to drop it,
I am on ramotraban and topical cet daily which do a little but not much,

So thats my update, hairloss not stopped, temples still receding, FML

hellouser
07-30-2013, 07:25 AM
well iv been on CB form 3 in kb solution at around 15 mg daily for a few weeks,
it doesnt seem to be doing much,
im also on RU 10-15 mg daily but thats too low a dose,
I tried I/C indo is bs, it makes my scalp itch like mad, chromo is v good in that my hair looks better immediately unfortunately i get huge dark circles under my eyes, it fks my face up so i had to drop it,
I am on ramotraban and topical cet daily which do a little but not much,

So thats my update, hairloss not stopped, temples still receding, FML

Where did you get CB?

Cob984
07-30-2013, 07:30 AM
Kane

hellouser
07-30-2013, 07:32 AM
Kane

Is it form III? And does it dissolve fully?

Conpecia
07-30-2013, 07:51 AM
Cobb:

you are putting way too much experimental shit on your head man. i don't think it's healthy to take RU + CB + CET + Ramatroban.

from everything i've read the kitchen sink approach can do more harm than good. i would just stick with RU for a few months on its own, that's the most proven thing out of all this. maybe gradually increase the dosage until you're at 50mg or so.

we still don't know the proper CB vehicle or dosage. we have no clue about Ramatroban. CET seems like it works but who knows about combining it with all this other shit?

i know it sucks to keep losing hair but you could get into trouble dumping a bunch of different treatments on your scalp every day. and also they could be less effective when taken together.

Cob984
07-30-2013, 08:05 AM
Hmm i might reduce cb to every other day till proper vehicle is established

Btw yes its form 3 and it dissolves very easily in kb

hellouser
07-30-2013, 08:06 AM
Hmm i might reduce cb to every other day till proper vehicle is established

Btw yes its form 3 and it dissolves very easily in kb

Youre using KB?

Shouldn't you be using Oleyl/PG as that was what was most likely used in the trials?

Cob984
07-30-2013, 08:11 AM
i have no idea where to get oleyl from

simba
07-30-2013, 08:42 AM
Iron dragon updated their website, said its cb is now available in 1 week instead of 5. Plus they wrote this.

http://www.iron-dragon.com/product_info.php?products_id=238&osCsid=45ba21cb835e928582ad1606e7320d7b

CB is in clinical trials for acne, what vehicle are they using for that? Im guessing itll be the same as it needs to penetrate the skin for it to work against acne.

hellouser
07-30-2013, 08:49 AM
Iron dragon updated their website, said its cb is now available in 1 week instead of 5. Plus they wrote this.

http://www.iron-dragon.com/product_info.php?products_id=238&osCsid=45ba21cb835e928582ad1606e7320d7b

CB is in clinical trials for acne, what vehicle are they using for that? Im guessing itll be the same as it needs to penetrate the skin for it to work against acne.

Cosmo stated it will be an Anhydrous vehicle.

Cob984
07-30-2013, 09:14 AM
Iron dragon updated their website, said its cb is now available in 1 week instead of 5. Plus they wrote this.

http://www.iron-dragon.com/product_info.php?products_id=238&osCsid=45ba21cb835e928582ad1606e7320d7b

CB is in clinical trials for acne, what vehicle are they using for that? Im guessing itll be the same as it needs to penetrate the skin for it to work against acne.

Yes finally, im getting it asap

clandestine
07-30-2013, 09:23 AM
Yes finally, im getting it asap

Same, decided.

Cob984
07-30-2013, 09:26 AM
Wtf im unable to see the correct shipping option on the ID website for international shipping,

anyone else getting this?

goldbondmafia
07-30-2013, 01:05 PM
Has anyone actually had good results from CB in terms of maintenance or regrowth? Is it supposed to work like fin/RU to maintain hair or regrow it like minox does?

hellouser
07-30-2013, 01:43 PM
Has anyone actually had good results from CB in terms of maintenance or regrowth? Is it supposed to work like fin/RU to maintain hair or regrow it like minox does?

Too early to tell. We'll know in the coming months with Kane's CB.

BudskiiHD
07-30-2013, 01:50 PM
Has anyone actually had good results from CB in terms of maintenance or regrowth? Is it supposed to work like fin/RU to maintain hair or regrow it like minox does?

Maintain and thicken existing hair like Fin/RU. CB-03-01 binds to androgen receptors( like RU58841 ) so androgens can't bind and do any damage. It won't regrow any hair on a slick bald area.

hellouser
07-30-2013, 01:54 PM
Maintain and thicken existing hair like Fin/RU. CB-03-01 binds to androgen receptors( like RU58841 ) so androgens can't bind and do any damage. It won't regrow any hair on a slick bald area.

many vellus hairs could and should turn terminal. from cosmo's presentations, hair became about 50% thicker, with 40% more hair count. both of these factors should make a world of a difference in terms of overall density.

goldbondmafia
07-30-2013, 02:04 PM
Maintain and thicken existing hair like Fin/RU. CB-03-01 binds to androgen receptors( like RU58841 ) so androgens can't bind and do any damage. It won't regrow any hair on a slick bald area.

oh for sure, I don't expect anything to regrow hair on a slick bald area, just looking for something that may regrow thinning hair for my hairline personally. Don't know if I should try minoxidil or wait for CB...


Too early to tell. We'll know in the coming months with Kane's CB.

Is Kane's supposed to be legit compared to other sources for getting CB? Good to hear they are on it though

BudskiiHD
07-30-2013, 02:06 PM
many vellus hairs could and should turn terminal. from cosmo's presentations, hair became about 50% thicker, with 40% more hair count. both of these factors should make a world of a difference in terms of overall density.

Hmm, but the results that are possible with cb-03-01 should also be achievable with RU58841 since they are both doing the same thing. Maybe CB-03-01 has higher binding affinity when compared to RU58841, or maybe cb-03-01 reaches the target better when compared RU58841. But, note in the CB-03-01 POC study they did use Iontophoresis which certainly improved the results. So yeh, I guess we will have to wait and see. But honestly, I don't think think it's anything to be really hyped about, but it is something I guess. Since once FDA approved it will be cheaper and no "bad batches" as with RU. I'd rather just call it the "convenient RU58841".

StayThick
07-30-2013, 03:42 PM
Iron dragon updated their website, said its cb is now available in 1 week instead of 5. Plus they wrote this.

http://www.iron-dragon.com/product_info.php?products_id=238&osCsid=45ba21cb835e928582ad1606e7320d7b

CB is in clinical trials for acne, what vehicle are they using for that? Im guessing itll be the same as it needs to penetrate the skin for it to work against acne.

I'll jump on this if its premixed. Anybody know if Iron Dragon will be offering this in a premixed version?

I hope it doesn't ruin my eyes like RU did...fingers crossed

mari0s
07-30-2013, 06:01 PM
many vellus hairs could and should turn terminal. from cosmo's presentations, hair became about 50% thicker, with 40% more hair count. both of these factors should make a world of a difference in terms of overall density.

these results were archived by using iontophoresis, don't forget. The best thing should be buying the machine and make a try but you must be know how to use it

mari0s
07-30-2013, 11:26 PM
Ok i know is an 3 yrs old proof of concept but i was look at it and something occurred to my mind.

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/1634/capturadepantalla201104f.png

Forget about cb-03-01 for a moment and look the results of cyproterone acetato and 17a-estradiol. They seems pretty amazing, i would be more than happy if the cyproterone that i use in my lotion + minox would have given that result.

Plus the effect seems to continues even after 4 weeks the treatments is done (which is not occur with a topical lotion that you have to use every day)

So maybe (maybe) our approach is quite wrong, it's more HOW to apply rather than What apply.

On a old thread on another site a user has writed this:
"The follicle actually lies fairly deep under the skin. Iontophoresis is interesting because research suggests that it largely aids transdermal absorption by sending the active ingredient down the hair shaft.

The ideal scenario would be finding someone who can create cationic liposomes to encapsulate active ingredients. Then you could use a (fairly inexpensive) iontophoresis device to deliver it."

I dont have the knowledge to try, maybe someone has

yan
07-31-2013, 02:11 AM
Not specifically related to CB 03 01:

Lainate, Italy – 31 July 2013
Cosmo reports excellent first half; new product sales exceed expectations and important progress is attained in products in development strong increase in profits
http://www.cosmopharmaceuticals.com/news/press/pr2013/2013-07-31.aspx


Some other info from the half-year report:

"Work on attaining the proof of concept in CB-03-01 for Alopecia continues making progress."

"Valeant, who acquired our licensee Medicis late last year, has reiterated its high strategic interest in this product."

"The development of CB-03-01 continues as planned. The phase II for acne calls for 4 cohorts of 90 patients each to be treated with ascending doses. Currently patients for the third cohort are being recruited. To date there have been no major adverse events."

"For CB-03-01 the Company believes it has an optimal solution in being assisted in the management of the phase II trials by the experience professionals of Intrepid Therapeutics Inc. and an optimal long term licensing partnership with Valeant who is the leader in skin diseases in the US."

"CB-03-01 is applied topically. It penetrates the skin well and acts by displacing the androgen from the sebaceous gland or hair follicle."

Half-year report:
http://www.cosmopharma.com/~/media/Files/C/Cosmo-Pharmaceuticals/half-year%20report-31-7-13.pdf

TravisB
07-31-2013, 05:59 AM
Not specifically related to CB 03 01:

Lainate, Italy – 31 July 2013
Cosmo reports excellent first half; new product sales exceed expectations and important progress is attained in products in development strong increase in profits
http://www.cosmopharmaceuticals.com/news/press/pr2013/2013-07-31.aspx


Some other info from the half-year report:

"Work on attaining the proof of concept in CB-03-01 for Alopecia continues making progress."

"Valeant, who acquired our licensee Medicis late last year, has reiterated its high strategic interest in this product."

"The development of CB-03-01 continues as planned. The phase II for acne calls for 4 cohorts of 90 patients each to be treated with ascending doses. Currently patients for the third cohort are being recruited. To date there have been no major adverse events."

"For CB-03-01 the Company believes it has an optimal solution in being assisted in the management of the phase II trials by the experience professionals of Intrepid Therapeutics Inc. and an optimal long term licensing partnership with Valeant who is the leader in skin diseases in the US."

"CB-03-01 is applied topically. It penetrates the skin well and acts by displacing the androgen from the sebaceous gland or hair follicle."

Half-year report:
http://www.cosmopharma.com/~/media/Files/C/Cosmo-Pharmaceuticals/half-year%20report-31-7-13.pdf

Hmm, I wonder how will they deal with potentiall skin atrophy side effect, since CB-03-01 is a steroid. If we were to apply it to our scalps for the rest of our lives, it better NOT cause such serious side effect as skin atrophy.

mari0s
07-31-2013, 06:06 AM
"CB-03-01 is applied topically. It penetrates the skin well and acts by displacing the androgen from the sebaceous gland or hair follicle."

Half-year report:
http://www.cosmopharma.com/~/media/Files/C/Cosmo-Pharmaceuticals/half-year%20report-31-7-13.pdf

Off course their final product must be a topical but given the great results they have archived even with the 17a-estradiol make me think that this way will be less effective than ionophoresis, in their R&D day of january they don't speak about the results they had with their new vehicle only about skin permeation test.

Hairismylife
07-31-2013, 10:00 AM
Apply CB right after derma rolling could help:confused:

yan
07-31-2013, 10:50 AM
Hmm, I wonder how will they deal with potentiall skin atrophy side effect, since CB-03-01 is a steroid. If we were to apply it to our scalps for the rest of our lives, it better NOT cause such serious side effect as skin atrophy.

Is there even a minimum chance that it doesn`t cause this side effect?

Because as far as I know, every topical steroid can cause this side effect... :(

If steroid atrophy is a side effect of CB, then its useless and not worth the risk. I would rather take a mini dose fin for the rest of my life than risk steroid atrophy on my head.

KeepHoping
07-31-2013, 10:56 AM
Do you guys think it will have to be delivered through a specific vehicle to actually work? Will this IronDragon site sell the right formulation and is it legal for them to sell it? I need some insight from you guys because I'm sure you all know more than I do about the legal process of patented drugs and delivery mechanisms and whatnot. Thank you in advance.

hellouser
07-31-2013, 11:05 AM
Do you guys think it will have to be delivered through a specific vehicle to actually work? Will this IronDragon site sell the right formulation and is it legal for them to sell it? I need some insight from you guys because I'm sure you all know more than I do about the legal process of patented drugs and delivery mechanisms and whatnot. Thank you in advance.

If they sell you legitimate CB, YOU have nothing to worry about other than the potential side effects (skin atrophy, although at 10mg dosage spread out across a large area of scalp is probably too little to make a difference).

TravisB
07-31-2013, 11:10 AM
Is there even a minimum chance that it doesn`t cause this side effect?

Because as far as I know, every topical steroid can cause this side effect... :(

If steroid atrophy is a side effect of CB, then its useless and not worth the risk. I would rather take a mini dose fin for the rest of my life than risk steroid atrophy on my head.

If the steroid is relatively weak, and isn't applied every day (CB is meant to be applied once a week), then maybe that side effect can be avoided, but I'm not an expert. However I'm not sure what would happen after very prolonged use even with once a week application.

Note that CB-03-01 is now into Phase II for acne and they report no serious side effects, and it's also applied to the skin (however I don't know how often), so maybe they avoided skin atrophy side effect somehow.

hellouser
07-31-2013, 11:11 AM
Wikipedia article on steroid skin atrophy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steroid_atrophy

yan
07-31-2013, 11:35 AM
Note that CB-03-01 is now into Phase II for acne and they report no serious side effects, and it's also applied to the skin (however I don't know how often), so maybe they avoided skin atrophy side effect somehow.

Daily for acne... And I guess you have to use it daily too for alopecia...

TravisB
07-31-2013, 11:36 AM
Wikipedia article on steroid skin atrophy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steroid_atrophy

This article says that corticosteroids cause skin atrophy. Meanwhile CB-03-01 is steroidal ester.

Is there a difference between corticosteroid and steroidal ester?

Maybe CB-03-01 don't have the potential to cause skin atrophy afterall?

Don't you think if there was skin atrophy they would observe this in the trials by now? Meanwhile they state there were no side effects (they are now into phase II for acne, and they did pilot study for MPB)

yan
07-31-2013, 11:38 AM
Wikipedia article on steroid skin atrophy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steroid_atrophy

That article scares me so hard... :eek:

"The potential for the condition exists whenever topical corticosteroids are used, even with low potency preparations."

If I read this article, it seems like it is 100% sure you will get that side effect...

hellouser
07-31-2013, 11:44 AM
That article scares me so hard... :eek:

"The potential for the condition exists whenever topical corticosteroids are used, even with low potency preparations."

If I read this article, it seems like it is 100% sure you will get that side effect...

Best to talk to some doctors and ask Cosmo as well in regards to this.

TravisB
07-31-2013, 11:52 AM
That article scares me so hard... :eek:

"The potential for the condition exists whenever topical corticosteroids are used, even with low potency preparations."

If I read this article, it seems like it is 100% sure you will get that side effect...

Then how come they didn't report it in the trials? The trials are going for some time now and if they apply it every day as you said the skin atrophy would be visible very fast.

Meanwhile they stated today that there are no serious side effects so far, and they are already into phase II.

I think they know what they are doing

yan
07-31-2013, 11:53 AM
Interesting fact:

CB-03-01 = Cortodoxone, also known as cortexolone or 11-deoxycortisol

"Cortodoxone functions as a glucocorticoid, though is less potent than cortisol."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cortodoxone

Topical steroids are classified according to their strenght.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topical_steroid

Class IV (up to 600 times as potent as hydrocortisone (Cortisol))

...
Class II (2-25 times as potent as hydrocortisone (Cortisol))

Lowest class is Class I (mild - as potent as hydrocortisone (Cortisol))


So it looks like CB-03-01 is even milder than the current lowest defined class. Its less potent than cortisol itself.

Maybe that would explain why they reported no side effects so far. We have to consider that they used CB on the face. The face is far more sensitive to corticosteroids than the scalp.

I guess they are not stupid. They wouldn`t even consider CB as a treatment for MPB if it had such serious side effects like skin atrophy.

TravisB
07-31-2013, 11:57 AM
I guess they are not stupid. They wouldn`t even consider CB as a treatment for MPB if it had such serious side effects like skin atrophy.

Exactly

IMO there's a very good chance CB-03-01 will be our new, better standard after Finasteride.

However I don't think the alopecia version will be on the market until 2017-2019. But perhaps acne version will also be effective for MPB, we'll see.

There's a chance that acne version will be on the market in 2016.

hellouser
07-31-2013, 12:11 PM
Exactly

IMO there's a very good chance CB-03-01 will be our new, better standard after Finasteride.

However I don't think the alopecia version will be on the market until 2017-2019. But perhaps acne version will also be effective for MPB, we'll see.

There's a chance that acne version will be on the market in 2016.

Once the acne version hits the market or comes close, the black market copy of it should be EASILY reproduced and used on our own. We're nearly there already anyway.

TravisB
07-31-2013, 12:16 PM
Once the acne version hits the market or comes close, the black market copy of it should be EASILY reproduced and used on our own. We're nearly there already anyway.

There already is CB-03-01 on black market, and some people used it with no results. So the explanation is:

1. The CB-03-01 on black market is fake
2. Vehicle is the problem (of course when CB-03-01 will hit the shelves it will have the right vehicle)

hellouser
07-31-2013, 12:26 PM
There already is CB-03-01 on black market, and some people used it with no results. So the explanation is:

1. The CB-03-01 on black market is fake
2. Vehicle is the problem (of course when CB-03-01 will hit the shelves it will have the right vehicle)

Even if it hits shelves for acne, the vehicle will be anhydrous for hair loss, which is 1-2 years after the acne product.

Pretty fvcking dumb of cosmo to release a product for acne when theres so much stuff for that issue and so many more men suffering from hair loss and so much more SHIT on the market that doesnt work.

KeepHoping
07-31-2013, 12:31 PM
Are you gonna trail the iron dragon stuff?

hellouser
07-31-2013, 12:32 PM
Are you gonna trail the iron dragon stuff?

I'm considering it. The price is ridiculously low. However I wonder how much $45 gets you.

Only issue with Iron Dragon is purity. If anyone knows if Iron Dragon is reliable, please let me know :)

KeepHoping
07-31-2013, 12:35 PM
I'm considering it. The price is ridiculously low. However I wonder how much $45 gets you.

Only issue with Iron Dragon is purity. If anyone knows if Iron Dragon is reliable, please let me know :)

I have no idea man, I know people have been trying stuff off their website but I'm not sure to what extent it really works.

KeepHoping
07-31-2013, 12:41 PM
Also even if it only gets you a small amount, do you really need a lot of the product? In the trial it was used once a week right?

yan
07-31-2013, 12:46 PM
My faith is restored in CB after this little research... ;):)

yan
07-31-2013, 12:49 PM
Also even if it only gets you a small amount, do you really need a lot of the product? In the trial it was used once a week right?

"All subjects were given 5 treatments (in sessions once or twice a week)"

http://www.cosmopharmaceuticals.com/news/press/pr2010/2010-10-06.aspx

But strange thing is, the subjects had impressive regrowth even 1 week and 1 month AFTER last treatment. Iontophoresis must be really powerful.
Imagine if you can achieve that with a topical. You take the stuff twice a week for a month, then stop for a month and have like 40% more follicular density. Would be amazing :P

And as we all know, DHT needs up to 6 months to destroy those hairs again. Would be amazing if you could take this stuff twice a year for like a month haha. Just a dream I guess.

The problem is that a topical solution will most probably not be nearly as effective as iontophoresis. So you have to use it maybe daily to deliver the same amount of CB to the hair follicle.

hellouser
07-31-2013, 12:53 PM
Also even if it only gets you a small amount, do you really need a lot of the product? In the trial it was used once a week right?

It was used twice a week using iontophoresis. Very different. And no, you don't need a lot. 10mg per application gave pretty much the same results as 50mg.

FearTheLoss
07-31-2013, 12:54 PM
I thought cosmo was aiming to have CB on the market by 2016 for hair loss?

chimera
07-31-2013, 12:56 PM
I thought cosmo was aiming to have CB on the market by 2016 for hair loss?

Nope. 2016 is when they think they will be able to release CB for acne. CB for hair loss will take even more time to be released.

yan
07-31-2013, 12:57 PM
I thought cosmo was aiming to have CB on the market by 2016 for hair loss?

Hm I think the timeline slipped several times in the past.

early 2015: end of proof of concept (phase 2a)

...then maybe phase 2b?

...and then at least 18 months for phase 3

Its more like 2017 - 2018

They keyword until then is MAINTAIN... I`m currently taking 0.2mg FIN twice a week since 3 months. No side effect (had side effects with 1mg daily) and even thickened up my hair a bit with that small amount. Maybe I`m a good responder, I don`t know... But no debate about fin please. Fin is stone age and needs to get replaced with better stuff. Period. ;)

hellouser
07-31-2013, 01:01 PM
"All subjects were given 5 treatments (in sessions once or twice a week)"

http://www.cosmopharmaceuticals.com/news/press/pr2010/2010-10-06.aspx

But strange thing is, the subjects had impressive regrowth even 1 week and 1 month AFTER last treatment. Iontophoresis must be really powerful.
Imagine if you can achieve that with a topical. You take the stuff twice a week for a month, then stop for a month and have like 40% more follicular density. Would be amazing :P

And as we all know, DHT needs up to 6 months to destroy those hairs again. Would be amazing if you could take this stuff twice a year for like a month haha. Just a dream I guess.

The problem is that a topical solution will most probably not be nearly as effective as iontophoresis. So you have to use it maybe daily to deliver the same amount of CB to the hair follicle.

Ideally, it would be best to use a iontophoresis device for the scalp. There needs to be an initiative to find one.... SPECIFICALLY for the scalp.

Perhaps this also renders skin atrophy impossible?

hellouser
07-31-2013, 01:03 PM
Nope. 2016 is when they think they will be able to release CB for acne. CB for hair loss will take even more time to be released.

No, 2016 is the absolute earliest date Cosmo could release it. I emailed Cosmo about this in December, 2011:

Dear XXXXX
Unfortunately the clinical trials will take some more time. It is unlikely that the product will be in the market before 2016.
Best regards

Dr. Chris Tanner

yan
07-31-2013, 01:05 PM
Ideally, it would be best to use a iontophoresis device for the scalp. There needs to be an initiative to find one.... SPECIFICALLY for the scalp.

Perhaps this also renders skin atrophy impossible?

I would certainly be the best! I remember someone wrote he built his own device. But to be honest, I have no idea...

yan
07-31-2013, 01:06 PM
No, 2016 is the absolute earliest date Cosmo could release it. I emailed Cosmo about this in December, 2011:

Dear XXXXX
Unfortunately the clinical trials will take some more time. It is unlikely that the product will be in the market before 2016.
Best regards

Dr. Chris Tanner

I checked every single presentation they published. Since 2011, the timeline unfortunately slipped several times... I think this info isn`t accurate anymore. Maybe if they skip phase 2b?
Is 2b always necessary? Does someone know?

hellouser
07-31-2013, 01:27 PM
I checked every single presentation they published. Since 2011, the timeline unfortunately slipped several times... I think this info isn`t accurate anymore. Maybe if they skip phase 2b?
Is 2b always necessary? Does someone know?

Perhaps for an Asian release, which wouldnt be a bad idea, you can always release there and have it imported. Much easier than going to asia for a Replicel procedure.

chimera
07-31-2013, 01:44 PM
No, 2016 is the absolute earliest date Cosmo could release it. I emailed Cosmo about this in December, 2011:

Woa, that's great. And I was thinking it would be released around 2020. But just 2 or 3 more years does not sounds that bad.

Like how much do you guys think it will cost when it is actually released on the mainstream market?

TravisB
07-31-2013, 01:50 PM
Woa, that's great. And I was thinking it would be released around 2020. But just 2 or 3 more years does not sounds that bad.

Like how much do you guys think it will cost when it is actually released on the mainstream market?

Yeah, 2016 is not that far away, but it will be version for ACNE.

We can't be sure if acne vehicle will be effective against MPB.

MPB version will probably come somewhere between 2017-2019 (if ever)

hellouser
07-31-2013, 02:42 PM
Yeah, 2016 is not that far away, but it will be version for ACNE.

We can't be sure if acne vehicle will be effective against MPB.

MPB version will probably come somewhere between 2017-2019 (if ever)

If the acne vehicle penetrates skin and can get to the hair follicle, it will work.

TravisB
07-31-2013, 03:28 PM
If the acne vehicle penetrates skin and can get to the hair follicle, it will work.

It would be great!

Hopefully it won't be a prescription medication so we'll be able to just buy it anytime we want.

However it probably will be prescription unfortunately since it's steroidal.

Conpecia
07-31-2013, 05:41 PM
Guys why aren't we focusing on the fact that we HAVE CB NOW?? Meaning we need to find the correct vehicle and dosage. We also need to see how much CB is in what Iron Dragon is selling. Waiting until 2016 seems strange when it's allegedly right here...

hellouser
07-31-2013, 05:50 PM
Guys why aren't we focusing on the fact that we HAVE CB NOW?? Meaning we need to find the correct vehicle and dosage. We also need to see how much CB is in what Iron Dragon is selling. Waiting until 2016 seems strange when it's allegedly right here...

I'm curious how much CB you actually get for $45 from Iron Dragon.

But I fully agree. I'm gonna be trialing CB with Oleyl/PG :)

simba
08-01-2013, 01:34 AM
Even if it hits shelves for acne, the vehicle will be anhydrous for hair loss, which is 1-2 years after the acne product.

Pretty fvcking dumb of cosmo to release a product for acne when theres so much stuff for that issue and so many more men suffering from hair loss and so much more SHIT on the market that doesnt work.

Youve said itll be an "anhydrous" vehicle a few times now but I dont know what that means, could you explain? Im guessing it just means a cream instead of a liquid.

yan
08-01-2013, 06:22 AM
Youve said itll be an "anhydrous" vehicle a few times now but I dont know what that means, could you explain? Im guessing it just means a cream instead of a liquid.

Its anhydrous if it contains no water. It dont have to be a cream. A cream will most probably not work on the head and it would be a big mess to apply it in your hair.

hellouser
08-01-2013, 07:10 AM
Its anhydrous if it contains no water. It dont have to be a cream. A cream will most probably not work on the head and it would be a big mess to apply it in your hair.

Would be pretty fvcking AWESOME if it we're completely dry. Just apply CB and then style hair. Use Minoxidil at night and you've got an awesome one-two punch. Dermarolling once a week shold give results as well.

yan
08-01-2013, 08:31 AM
Would be pretty fvcking AWESOME if it we're completely dry. Just apply CB and then style hair. Use Minoxidil at night and you've got an awesome one-two punch. Dermarolling once a week shold give results as well.

Indeed! I hope so much all goes well...

hellouser
08-01-2013, 08:44 AM
Indeed! I hope so much all goes well...

There's also this which contains saw palmetto:

http://www.folica.com/hair-care/hair-protection-products/min-new-york-substance-texturizing-paste-three-five-oz

I doubt it will do much, if at all, but saw palmetto being there is better than the regular crap that we use normally.

Conpecia
08-01-2013, 12:59 PM
def start a trial thread on the CB hellouser, good luck dude. when is it supposed to arrive?

hellouser
08-01-2013, 01:03 PM
def start a trial thread on the CB hellouser, good luck dude. when is it supposed to arrive?

I need help ordering and paying on Kane's website. Its so confusing... nothing is explained on how to pay.

yan
08-01-2013, 06:23 PM
Btw regarding the safety:

Phase 2 European Pilot study for acne: http://intrepidthera.com/wp-co...2011-Trifu-et-al-.pdf

"During the study, no concerns were raised regarding the local and systemic safety of CB-03-01."

"No serious AEs were detected through the study, no drop-outs occurred for safety reasons, and no differences among the groups were noticed concerning the nature and the incidence of AEs."

They applied 1% CB once daily for 8 weeks.

yan
08-01-2013, 06:24 PM
Effectiveness of two vehicles for CB-03-01:


On human skin, in vitro:

~1% CB in Propylene Glycol has an average:

Permeation Rate of 7
Skin concentration of 36


~1% CB in Propylene Glycol and Oleyl Alcohol 9.1 has an average:

Permeation Rate of 1410
Skin Concentration of 231


http://files.investis.com/csm/presentations/RDday2010.pdf - Page 74

On page 7 you can see the timeline they had in 2010. They planned to finish the proof of concept for the alopecia formulation in H1 / 2013. Timeline slipped two years since 2010.. :/

thechamp
08-01-2013, 08:53 PM
Do you think cb will be effective ?

deuce
08-01-2013, 09:04 PM
Do you think cb will be effective ?

I HOPE it does work for everyones sake. Only thing is I have not seen one person report its effectiveness because no one can find the proper vehicle for it. I am not an expert on mixtures and stuff so I am not sure. What makes yall think it will work this time around?

thechamp
08-01-2013, 10:14 PM
How can we find the vehicle

simba
08-02-2013, 06:12 AM
Effectiveness of two vehicles for CB-03-01:


On human skin, in vitro:

~1% CB in Propylene Glycol has an average:

Permeation Rate of 7
Skin concentration of 36


~1% CB in Propylene Glycol and Oleyl Alcohol 9.1 has an average:

Permeation Rate of 1410
Skin Concentration of 231


http://files.investis.com/csm/presentations/RDday2010.pdf - Page 74

On page 7 you can see the timeline they had in 2010. They planned to finish the proof of concept for the alopecia formulation in H1 / 2013. Timeline slipped two years since 2010.. :/

Im guessing this means Propylene Glycol and Oleyl Alcohol are perfect vehicles?

huawei
08-02-2013, 09:04 PM
Hey all, a few days ago Cosmo released a financial report for shareholders which is available on their site.

The two key points relating to this drug are as follows

1. Phase II trials are half done for CB-03-01 but only for acne.
2. Phase I trials for CB-03-01 for MPB are about 80% done.

Here's in only info available in the doc relating to the Phase I:

Phase I alopecia
•Completion of toxicological studies ongoing
•Phase I PK ongoing (treatment completed)

so it's safe to say that if it goes to phase 2 saftey of the product is pretty much assured for all you clandestine hair loss fighters.

burtandernie
08-02-2013, 09:26 PM
That is good news just to see it progress for MPB I just hope they finish it and it ends up turning out as good as it sounds. Im more hype for this then I am anything else. I would be more then happy just keeping the hair I have more safely.

lilpauly
08-03-2013, 05:25 PM
i think we are going about cb the wrong way! people need to use a strength great then 1% and they must use the vehicle in the patent! higher then 1% is going to be expensive the price needs to come down. if your only targeting the hairline then its an option

also here is the test report of the cb-from kane. kane is the ONLY source that right form !
from the chemist:
have reviewed the data regarding CB-03-01. The compound is found to be pure based on evaluation of the HPLC chromatogram and NMR spectral data. If you need further insight into the evaluation of this data, please feel free to ask, and I will be happy to provide you with more detail regarding the identification and characterization of CB-03-01 from the data provided.

The NMR from ' looks good. There are 34 hydrogens in the MF for CD-03-01 which all appear within the integrations of this NMR spectra at the expected ppm absorptions for their respective structural positions. It is from this observation that one can suggest not only is this compound identified, but it is pure. i will upload both kanes test results and the third party test results

simba
08-04-2013, 08:46 AM
I tried emailing iron dragon asking what vehicle they're using

"Hello, I noticed you will soon be making Cortexolone 17 alpha propionate (or CB-03-01) available on your website and I have a few questions.

Will you be releasing this in solution or powder form? If solution what vehicle will you be using?"

Their reply was

"Hello,

Please refer to our newsletter that was recently posted about this product.

Thank you,

ID"

Not very useful, I also couldn't find what they were using in their newsletter, can anyone else.

StayThick
08-04-2013, 09:09 AM
I tried emailing iron dragon asking what vehicle they're using

"Hello, I noticed you will soon be making Cortexolone 17 alpha propionate (or CB-03-01) available on your website and I have a few questions.

Will you be releasing this in solution or powder form? If solution what vehicle will you be using?"

Their reply was

"Hello,

Please refer to our newsletter that was recently posted about this product.

Thank you,

ID"

Not very useful, I also couldn't find what they were using in their newsletter, can anyone else.



I was literally just about to email them too. I would like to know this before purchasing as well. I would prefer a premade olution, problem is nobody here knows the correct vehicle.

Sogeking
08-04-2013, 12:11 PM
This sounds great. All the benefits of finasteride without any side effects. I hope this comes out soon. I hope it works. I hope...

bibz
08-05-2013, 04:12 AM
Cb presale on irondragon, i ordered mine this morning, HERE WE GO!

StayThick
08-05-2013, 06:05 AM
Cb presale on irondragon, i ordered mine this morning, HERE WE GO!

Did you confirm if it will be in powdered form or a premade solution???

Cob984
08-05-2013, 06:25 AM
Damn they have some problem with international shipping ,
goddamit i need this NOW

Avacfc
08-05-2013, 09:17 AM
Did you confirm if it will be in powdered form or a premade solution???

I have put this question to them twice now and they wont give me a clear answer of how it will be sold, they kept saying read our information on the website!

Cob984
08-05-2013, 09:22 AM
I have put this question to them twice now and they wont give me a clear answer of how it will be sold, they kept saying read our information on the website!

wtf thats bs, im expecting it to be a soluution, i dont think they sell powdered anything

simba
08-05-2013, 09:34 AM
I have put this question to them twice now and they wont give me a clear answer of how it will be sold, they kept saying read our information on the website!

Was their response the same as the email I posted? Its probably an automated email.

bibz
08-05-2013, 09:41 AM
Damn shut the fvck up, Iron dragon only sell LIQUID PREMADE SOLUTION, the only negative point its the lack of information(dosage, etc...). The presale is already over that's why you might have some problem to order it, they are already out of stock. They will normally sell it officialy in one or two weeks.

bibz
08-05-2013, 09:42 AM
If this shit works, it will be the heaven for all of us. For guyz who can take fin or dut it will be the best combo ever. No more hairloss until the cure

chimera
08-05-2013, 09:49 AM
Damn shut the fvck up, Iron dragon only sell LIQUID PREMADE SOLUTION


Does that mean it will be ready for use right off the bat?

Avacfc
08-05-2013, 09:50 AM
Was their response the same as the email I posted? Its probably an automated email.

This was there response I got when asking how it is sold:

Hello,
>
> The best thing to do is to look at the new article that we have
> just put up as of a matter of minutes ago. It is extremely thorough and I
> am certain that you will find it interesting. In fact, it is the best
> compilation of information that I have seen on Cortexolone yet. There are
> citations of 17 independent studies.
>
> Thank you,
>
> ID

simba
08-05-2013, 09:54 AM
This was there response I got when asking how it is sold:

Hello,
>
> The best thing to do is to look at the new article that we have
> just put up as of a matter of minutes ago. It is extremely thorough and I
> am certain that you will find it interesting. In fact, it is the best
> compilation of information that I have seen on Cortexolone yet. There are
> citations of 17 independent studies.
>
> Thank you,
>
> ID

err.....to me it sounds like theyre avoiding the question because theyre not sure what the best vehicle is.

I sure hope thats not the case, Im really banking on ID CB maintaining my hair until something better comes along

yan
08-05-2013, 11:11 AM
Guys this CB is atm totally underrated. You dont seem to understand what I could mean for billions of men worldwide. If it works like promised in the early studies with nearly no side-effects, then this is the damn cure. I understand it isnt a cure for NW4+, but for all low norwoods, thats it. You dont have to think a damn second anymore about hair loss for the rest of your life.

The day they announce the hopefully successful Phase 2 results and the initiation of Phase 3 will be the best day in my life.

Cob984
08-05-2013, 11:23 AM
what ur missing is cb officialy from cosmo will hit mkt for hair loss 4-5 yrs away,
by then im toast

on another note, need to find the correct vehicle, right now it dissolves very easy in kb but i dont think it does squat and its bloody expensive,
here hoping iron dragon has figured it out a bit better

StayThick
08-05-2013, 03:46 PM
Damn shut the fvck up, Iron dragon only sell LIQUID PREMADE SOLUTION.


How about you STFU. It's clear nobody has received an accurate response from ID themself regarding this. Telling people to shut up when many of us would like answers before grabbing their credit card is annoying. Especially if it could mean potentially buying another useless Indo/Chromo or whatever experimental treatment you want to plug in there.

How about you calm the F down and realize in the wrong vehicle, CB is utterly useless. Useless! Which at that point would only guarantee a dent in your wallet with nothing to show for it. Just playing Devil's advocate here. Point is, people on these forum asks questions to obtain the proper information before making stupid decisions and buying snake oil. That's the point of this forum.

You don't even know what ID is using as a vehicle yet are stating this could be a cure. You say it's a liquid, what liquid? Are you hearing yourself? Get a grip bro... You're losing it and I'm not just talking about your hair.

lilpauly
08-05-2013, 05:09 PM
Correct fellas its all about the vehicle . Right now it looks like iron dragon and Kane are the only to suppliers that has cb. I tested Kane's cb and it is fact pure. The problem is we don't know the proper strength and vehicle . I'm hoping this can be solved very soon

simba
08-06-2013, 03:58 AM
Correct fellas its all about the vehicle . Right now it looks like iron dragon and Kane are the only to suppliers that has cb. I tested Kane's cb and it is fact pure. The problem is we don't know the proper strength and vehicle . I'm hoping this can be solved very soon

I few pages back yan posted this

Originally Posted by yan View Post
Effectiveness of two vehicles for CB-03-01:


On human skin, in vitro:

~1% CB in Propylene Glycol has an average:

Permeation Rate of 7
Skin concentration of 36


~1% CB in Propylene Glycol and Oleyl Alcohol 9.1 has an average:

Permeation Rate of 1410
Skin Concentration of 231


http://files.investis.com/csm/presen.../RDday2010.pdf - Page 74

On page 7 you can see the timeline they had in 2010. They planned to finish the proof of concept for the alopecia formulation in H1 / 2013. Timeline slipped two years since 2010.. :/


I thought this confirmed that Propylene Glycol and Oleyl Alcohol was the correct vehicle?

hellouser
08-06-2013, 07:43 AM
I few pages back yan posted this

Originally Posted by yan View Post
Effectiveness of two vehicles for CB-03-01:


On human skin, in vitro:

~1% CB in Propylene Glycol has an average:

Permeation Rate of 7
Skin concentration of 36


~1% CB in Propylene Glycol and Oleyl Alcohol 9.1 has an average:

Permeation Rate of 1410
Skin Concentration of 231


http://files.investis.com/csm/presen.../RDday2010.pdf - Page 74

On page 7 you can see the timeline they had in 2010. They planned to finish the proof of concept for the alopecia formulation in H1 / 2013. Timeline slipped two years since 2010.. :/


I thought this confirmed that Propylene Glycol and Oleyl Alcohol was the correct vehicle?

No, it was just the vehicle used in the trials.

simba
08-06-2013, 08:39 AM
No, it was just the vehicle used in the trials.

Yes but as the permeation rate was so high (and skin concentration) doesnt that mean its the right vehicle?

hellouser
08-06-2013, 09:55 AM
Yes but as the permeation rate was so high (and skin concentration) doesnt that mean its the right vehicle?

I wouldt know as I'm not sure what the numbers mean:


~1% CB in Propylene Glycol and Oleyl Alcohol 9.1 has an average:

Permeation Rate of 1410
Skin Concentration of 231

Lucky for me, I do have Oleyl on my and could easily apply CB much like Cosmo has. Do you know what the numbers for intophoresis are?

simba
08-06-2013, 01:32 PM
I wouldt know as I'm not sure what the numbers mean:



Lucky for me, I do have Oleyl on my and could easily apply CB much like Cosmo has. Do you know what the numbers for intophoresis are?

In the PDF that was linked to, from page 68 onwards it talks about antiandrogens and the use of cb for acne and alopecia. The numbers for skin permeation for acne are described as permeating the skin well and having a noticeable effect, and even though it doesn't talk about why they used intophoresis or how much it permeated the skin, applying cb to the scalp should permeate as well as on the face(with acne) and will most likely have a decent effect. At the very least its worth using until we find out what vehicle Cosmo is using for current trials.

Now all we need to do is figure out what solution iron dragon is using and we should be set for the next year until new research comes out

yan
08-06-2013, 02:01 PM
and even though it doesn't talk about why they used intophoresis


I read in an older presentation that they used it in order to save money and time. If you guys really don`t believe me, I have to search the presentation. :(;)

And its true, those permeation tests are like 2 or 3 years old and have nothing to do with the tests performed last year. So atm we have no idea which vehicle is the perfect one.

simba
08-06-2013, 02:16 PM
I read in an older presentation that they used it in order to save money and time. If you guys really don`t believe me, I have to search the presentation. :(;)

And its true, those permeation tests are like 2 or 3 years old and have nothing to do with the tests performed last year. So atm we have no idea which vehicle is the perfect one.

If you can find it that'll be great, there might be a useful nugget or two of information in there

yan
08-06-2013, 03:18 PM
If you can find it that'll be great, there might be a useful nugget or two of information in there

I cant find it anymore. Too much information in those annual reports. Dozens of sites... :( But I once read every single presentation and there are unfortunately no more information about a vehicle or permeation rate with iontophoresis.

lilpauly
08-06-2013, 05:18 PM
Here's my opinion they have a cream for the acne. We used it in the past and no 1 got results because it contained ingredients that would not penetrate the hair shaft like mineral oil . Change the mineral oil to coconut oil for example the it would help get to the hair shaft

deuce
08-06-2013, 11:07 PM
I just do not understand all the hype with this cb. No proven results were ever shown in pics. Fellas I hope it does work, but it gets me upset that there is no VISIBLE proof. How in the world would we figure out this vehicle? I think the best hope out there is what joe from staten island said on the bald truth about the newly rejuvinated bimatropost in phase 2 accelerated trials by allergen.

yan
08-07-2013, 05:51 AM
I just do not understand all the hype with this cb. No proven results were ever shown in pics. Fellas I hope it does work, but it gets me upset that there is no VISIBLE proof. How in the world would we figure out this vehicle? I think the best hope out there is what joe from staten island said on the bald truth about the newly rejuvinated bimatropost in phase 2 accelerated trials by allergen.

Well the mechanism of blocking DHT and the results on the hair is well known. The only problem, as you said, is the vehicle. But one thing is 100% sure, if it reaches the hair follicle and block dht + testeron, it will stop your hair loss and give you some regrowth.

chimera
08-07-2013, 08:07 AM
I just do not understand all the hype with this cb. No proven results were ever shown in pics. Fellas I hope it does work, but it gets me upset that there is no VISIBLE proof. How in the world would we figure out this vehicle? I think the best hope out there is what joe from staten island said on the bald truth about the newly rejuvinated bimatropost in phase 2 accelerated trials by allergen.

Bimatoprost has never done anything more than the prehistoric minox can do. Perhaps this new version can do a little more, but how much?, a hundred percent better, two hundred percent better?, that would still be low.

But, if we find the right vehicle for CB, it will practically be the cure for low Norwoods.

Hairismylife
08-07-2013, 09:50 AM
I'm ready to buy CB from Kane and use KB as vehicle.
Any opinion?

hellouser
08-07-2013, 09:50 AM
I'm ready to buy CB from Kane and use KB as vehicle.
Any opinion?

If your using something like KB, you better be dermarolling. CB doesn't penetrate all that well in ethanol. I doubt KB will be any better.

petewete
08-07-2013, 06:44 PM
What "vehicle" is this company running the trials using? Can we not just use the same approach? Or is it too expensive or complicated?

Maybe talking to a dermatologist or a chemist would give us a good idea on how to make this stuff penetrate into the scalp?

hellouser
08-07-2013, 06:48 PM
What "vehicle" is this company running the trials using? Can we not just use the same approach? Or is it too expensive or complicated?

Maybe talking to a dermatologist or a chemist would give us a good idea on how to make this stuff penetrate into the scalp?

They used iontophoresis in the study but also *may* have used oleyl and propylene glycol as well. However, Cosmo has stated it will use an anhydrous (dry) vehicle.

Best bet is to either find an iontophoresis device OR use a good vehicle (oleyl) and exfoliate + dermaroll for better penetration.

simba
08-08-2013, 04:44 AM
They used iontophoresis in the study but also *may* have used oleyl and propylene glycol as well. However, Cosmo has stated it will use an anhydrous (dry) vehicle.

Best bet is to either find an iontophoresis device OR use a good vehicle (oleyl) and exfoliate + dermaroll for better penetration.

Anhydrous means no water, which is different to "dry" (so still likely oleyl).

Im gonna risk derma roller + minox + cb with oleyl/glycol.

simba
08-08-2013, 09:48 AM
Does anyone here have decent knowledge of Chemistry?

If I were to buy some propylene glycol and oleyl alcohol individually and mix them together then add CB would that be enough or is there a special way of mixing it?

hellouser
08-08-2013, 09:59 AM
Does anyone here have decent knowledge of Chemistry?

If I were to buy some propylene glycol and oleyl alcohol individually and mix them together then add CB would that be enough or is there a special way of mixing it?

Thats all there is to it dude, its basically the same as RU.

Hairismylife
08-08-2013, 10:05 AM
They used iontophoresis in the study but also *may* have used oleyl and propylene glycol as well. However, Cosmo has stated it will use an anhydrous (dry) vehicle.

Best bet is to either find an iontophoresis device OR use a good vehicle (oleyl) and exfoliate + dermaroll for better penetration.

Where can I get oleyl and propylene glycol? Does Kane sell?

FearTheLoss
08-08-2013, 04:15 PM
I know saying this is useless..but i hate cosmo for trailing the acne version first...we could have had cb by 2014-15 if they had trialled hair loss version first...depressing

guess we just need to find the vehicle

hellouser
08-08-2013, 04:17 PM
I know saying this is useless..but i hate cosmo for trailing the acne version first...we could have had cb by 2014-15 if they had trialled hair loss version first...depressing

guess we just need to find the vehicle

Once their acne solution comes out, replicating the CB compound should be significantly easier. Wont matter how long it takes them to release it, we'll be using it regardless.

lilpauly
08-08-2013, 04:17 PM
Trust me I'm working with chemist , engineers and experts and we will find the right vehicle . Cosmo is using 5 % in the future

FearTheLoss
08-08-2013, 04:19 PM
Trust me I'm working with chemist , engineers and experts and we will find the right vehicle . Cosmo is using 5 % in the future

lilpauly if you find the right vehicle this forum will praise you...

lilpauly's vacation fund donations on phg if you find it haha

hellouser
08-08-2013, 04:21 PM
lilpauly if you find the right vehicle this forum will praise you...

lilpauly's vacation fund donations on phg if you find it haha

Just use oleyl/pg for now and dermaroll or at least exfoliate and shower before applying.

lilpauly
08-08-2013, 04:23 PM
lilpauly if you find the right vehicle this forum will praise you...

lilpauly's vacation fund donations on phg if you find it haha

I'm in charge of new product development. Kane was able to get form 111 cb after I asked him,and it was tested growth factors are also going to be released, I'm on several forums and I never takee any money from any1 ever. I paid out of my own pocket so 7 people can try the growth factors to the hairline only

lilpauly
08-08-2013, 04:25 PM
I'm working on several projects

Pentarou
08-08-2013, 04:31 PM
I know saying this is useless..but i hate cosmo for trailing the acne version first...we could have had cb by 2014-15 if they had trialled hair loss version first...depressing

guess we just need to find the vehicle
Apparently it is easier to get funding and approval for acne medicines, so getting CB cleared as an acne treatment first increases the chances of the medicine being able reach the market.

lilpauly
08-08-2013, 04:33 PM
Apparently it is easier to get funding and approval for acne medicines, so getting CB cleared as an acne treatment first increases the chances of the medicine being able reach the market.

Yes Man U are right something for asc j9

Conpecia
08-08-2013, 05:07 PM
Mark I consider this and dermarolling the best thing going for us at this time. Please let us know if you find an appropriate vehicle. This could be huge.

thechamp
08-08-2013, 07:21 PM
Mark I consider this and dermarolling the best thing going for us at this time. Please let us know if you find an appropriate vehicle. This could be huge.

Maybe a hair transplant plus cb could save alot of people?

FearTheLoss
08-08-2013, 07:32 PM
do you think there will be a major difference in vehicle and dosage for acne vs. alopecia?

it's supposed to be out in 2015 for acne right?
and 2016 at soonest for alopecia..

they don't need a phase I safety trial, so it would be just phase II and III

yan
08-08-2013, 07:38 PM
do you think there will be a major difference in vehicle and dosage for acne vs. alopecia?

it's supposed to be out in 2015 for acne right?
and 2016 at soonest for alopecia..

they don't need a phase I safety trial, so it would be just phase II and III

They want to finish proof of concept in early 2015. I have no idea if they have to do an phase 2b after that!? I think 2017 - 2018 is more realistic...

deuce
08-08-2013, 07:49 PM
I got this message from Cosmo pharmaceuticals about a month ago.


Thank you for your interest on our anti-androgen CB-03-01.
At this moment the product is under clinical evaluation only for Acne, nor for alopecia. It is too early foresee the possible date of availability for sale in US and EU.
Clinical studies for the indication for Alopecia are not yet scheduled.
kind regards.
G. Celasco

StayThick
08-08-2013, 07:51 PM
Mark I consider this and dermarolling the best thing going for us at this time. Please let us know if you find an appropriate vehicle. This could be huge.

If dermarolling is the best thing going for us right now I'm telling you we are all screwed. I'm at my breaking point.

I already have a head up on most of you, I've been dermarolling for the past 3 months and if anything it helps to "possibly" maintain. Don't expect regrowth all over the place or else you are in for a big surprise. Rolling needles all over your head isn't the answer guys, but it's still worth wild to try it and in my case continue 2x week.

Honestly, I don't even know if all the money I spend and treatments I have tried and currently use even do anything at all. Sometimes I think I should just save my cash, let nature take its course, and hope the HT industry improves for a more permanent solution. The current treatments available are just terrible...