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WashedOut
04-07-2014, 09:54 PM
Is CB the real deal when it comes to stopping future loss? It would be a shame to wait 4 years to see it's not much more effective than other stuff we have now.

doke
04-08-2014, 01:31 AM
do you use this product ?

http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc481/alexiqbal/431E5D5D-868B-4D83-B1F6-8308FE381928-1397-000000F359958451_zps5abb2576.jpg (http://s1214.photobucket.com/user/alexiqbal/media/431E5D5D-868B-4D83-B1F6-8308FE381928-1397-000000F359958451_zps5abb2576.jpg.html)

hi i do not use the liquid spiro although i do still have the one in your picture but it smelt too strong so i used the cream instead which also has caffein in.
I stopped spiro now and am on 5% ru premix from anagen which has no smell and once a day at night 2mls of minox.

kobefan234
04-08-2014, 05:29 AM
doke- yes the smell is terrible with liquid spiro. i also have the cream although i don't know if its working or not.

i apply it to the temple areas.

http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc481/alexiqbal/A45CBEE5-4B37-468B-8571-08A337775087_zps6ddayegq.png (http://s1214.photobucket.com/user/alexiqbal/media/A45CBEE5-4B37-468B-8571-08A337775087_zps6ddayegq.png.html)

doke
04-08-2014, 06:14 AM
doke- yes the smell is terrible with liquid spiro. i also have the cream although i don't know if its working or not.

i apply it to the temple areas.

http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc481/alexiqbal/A45CBEE5-4B37-468B-8571-08A337775087_zps6ddayegq.png (http://s1214.photobucket.com/user/alexiqbal/media/A45CBEE5-4B37-468B-8571-08A337775087_zps6ddayegq.png.html)

not much smell to ru58841 which is good and its better than spiro.

burtandernie
04-10-2014, 03:26 PM
Is CB the real deal when it comes to stopping future loss? It would be a shame to wait 4 years to see it's not much more effective than other stuff we have now.

Too early to say. Contrary to what many others on here think CB 03 01 is an entirely experimental chemical that is not close to fully studied. Its anyone guess what it could do or how well it works. In theory its a powerful AA with a small preliminary study they did showing it works twice as well as propecia.
I dont want to wait 3 or 4 years, but using it now is questionable at best and not indicative of any possible results when it eventually does come out. Its not out yet to buy because of many good reasons

doke
04-11-2014, 02:24 AM
An article by john ertel at regrowth com many years ago stated that ru58841 was the mother of all antiandrogens and without side effects and its as strong as flutamide and stronger than finasteride but topical application.
So is it stronger than cb 01 03 it maybe?

simba
04-11-2014, 08:40 AM
Too early to say. Contrary to what many others on here think CB 03 01 is an entirely experimental chemical that is not close to fully studied. Its anyone guess what it could do or how well it works. In theory its a powerful AA with a small preliminary study they did showing it works twice as well as propecia.
I dont want to wait 3 or 4 years, but using it now is questionable at best and not indicative of any possible results when it eventually does come out. Its not out yet to buy because of many good reasons

The chemicals CB-03-01 degrades into are well known to be safe.

Tenma
04-11-2014, 09:22 AM
An article by john ertel at regrowth com many years ago stated that ru58841 was the mother of all antiandrogens and without side effects and its as strong as flutamide and stronger than finasteride but topical application.
So is it stronger than cb 01 03 it maybe?


I think CB is a bit stronger, but cant tell you for sure. There is one paper discussing the antiandrogenic activity of the drug. if someone can find it that would be great.

Here is the abstract of the study we need to read:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15646372

doke
04-12-2014, 02:30 AM
I think CB is a bit stronger, but cant tell you for sure. There is one paper discussing the antiandrogenic activity of the drug. if someone can find it that would be great.

Here is the abstract of the study we need to read:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15646372

many thanks for the link tenma i notice that ru58842 is mentioned on this site but ru myristat i wonder why the premix ru does not use that?

cichlidfort
04-12-2014, 07:18 AM
Is anyone confident that we'll find a working vehicle soon for CB before it's actually suppose to come out?

joely
04-12-2014, 07:28 AM
Is anyone confident that we'll find a working vehicle soon for CB before it's actually suppose to come out?

When is it suppose to come out?

simba
04-12-2014, 09:20 AM
Is anyone confident that we'll find a working vehicle soon for CB before it's actually suppose to come out?

People are waiting to see what Cosmo are using in trials, so hopefully well get it before Cosmo release it commercially.

HairBane
04-12-2014, 10:52 AM
There are probably already vehicles out there that work for CB. They're just not (a) optimal or (b) user-friendly.

deuce
04-12-2014, 04:42 PM
Do companies release the vehicles for their products while they are in phase 1 testing?

burtandernie
04-12-2014, 07:08 PM
Why would a company release the vehicle at all? Doesnt seem like telling everyone like competition what vehicle they use is a good idea to me. Loose lips sink ships it applies to almost everything where giving information can harm you. I dont know what benefit they gain from telling anyone that specific info.

HairBane
04-12-2014, 10:42 PM
Why would a company release the vehicle at all? Doesnt seem like telling everyone like competition what vehicle they use is a good idea to me. Loose lips sink ships it applies to almost everything where giving information can harm you. I dont know what benefit they gain from telling anyone that specific info.

If they were to release any info regarding the vehicle, it would most likely be just a snippet, perhaps one line in amongst the vast documentation and presentations disseminating information about the ongoing trials. Something like "a such-and-such based vehicle will be used for phase I alopecia trials", rather than some exhaustive ingredients list. But who knows, really? Our best bet is just logically deducing a decent working vehicle until we get an official one. There are some theoretical options already.

jason1001
04-16-2014, 08:29 AM
When is it suppose to come out?

Im also curious about the release date

hellouser
04-16-2014, 08:54 AM
Im also curious about the release date

2016 was their initial projected date. It's been pushed back at least another year. Cosmo is focusing more on their acne product because the dozens of treatments for acne already on the market are not enough.

2018 is the more likely release date of CB. Good news, right? :rolleyes:

burtandernie
04-16-2014, 03:13 PM
Four years is a long long time. You really could not log into this forum for a year and probably not miss a single thing. Most of the stuff on this forum is many years away so almost all of it is endless speculation or about the frequent snake oil that pops up out of nowhere.
Maybe I need to bite the bullet and try propecia. I dont think 4 years is a length of time I can wait.

cichlidfort
04-16-2014, 03:34 PM
2016 was their initial projected date. It's been pushed back at least another year. Cosmo is focusing more on their acne product because the dozens of treatments for acne already on the market are not enough.

2018 is the more likely release date of CB. Good news, right? :rolleyes:

For a lot of us, it's terrible news. But in the general big picture of balding, it's awesome. In 3-4 years we'll have something that will knock hairloss in the teeth. In theory, CB is a 1000 times better than fin because of the no sides and efficacy of it.

hellouser
04-16-2014, 04:01 PM
For a lot of us, it's terrible news. But in the general big picture of balding, it's awesome. In 3-4 years we'll have something that will knock hairloss in the teeth. In theory, CB is a 1000 times better than fin because of the no sides and efficacy of it.

If its really 4 years, perhaps less if Cosmo gets the acne product out and we figure out the damn vehicle, I could opt for an HT today, get my hair back, keep using RU and Minox to stabilize, potentially even microdose on Fin and I could keep what I got until then.

I'd hope Cosmo isn't incompetent like Aderans or Histogen when it comes to projections though... but they've already pushed back by a couple years so really, my expectations are very low for them.

cichlidfort
04-16-2014, 04:07 PM
If its really 4 years, perhaps less if Cosmo gets the acne product out and we figure out the damn vehicle, I could opt for an HT today, get my hair back, keep using RU and Minox to stabilize, potentially even microdose on Fin and I could keep what I got until then.

I'd hope Cosmo isn't incompetent like Aderans or Histogen when it comes to projections though... but they've already pushed back by a couple years so really, my expectations are very low for them.

I understand the frustrations with hairloss can cloud our judgement with expectations of new releases. Hopefully 3-4 years is the actually timeline. But I'm unsure of HT. Once you get the implanted hair, will it stay there for life, like the DHT resistant hair on the back of our heads?

kobefan234
04-16-2014, 07:27 PM
If its really 4 years, perhaps less if Cosmo gets the acne product out and we figure out the damn vehicle, I could opt for an HT today, get my hair back, keep using RU and Minox to stabilize, potentially even microdose on Fin and I could keep what I got until then.

I'd hope Cosmo isn't incompetent like Aderans or Histogen when it comes to projections though... but they've already pushed back by a couple years so really, my expectations are very low for them.

its always x amount of "years" away. I'll believe it when I can comb it.

Auld Reekie
04-17-2014, 12:27 AM
For a lot of us, it's terrible news. But in the general big picture of balding, it's awesome. In 3-4 years we'll have something that will knock hairloss in the teeth. In theory, CB is a 1000 times better than fin because of the no sides and efficacy of it.

Is it 1000 times better than RU? I thought RU was a side-free (or at least vastly reduced sides) topical alternative to finasteride. Isn't it?

jason1001
04-17-2014, 01:23 PM
Is Ru out now?
I never see much people posting about it.

cichlidfort
04-17-2014, 01:29 PM
Is Ru out now?
I never see much people posting about it.

...because you're not looking.

Potm22
04-17-2014, 01:53 PM
Would love to give CB a try after i used RU for at least a few months.
Is there a "common" statement yet on what ppl that used it already BELIEVE to be the best vehicle? So that i know what i should use.

Also does anyone know a decent blog or sth of someone reporting his CB results and maybe giving some advice that helps noobs like me getting started? for ru the Hellouserthread(god bless him) was obv a lifesaver, was hoping that there is sth similar for CB around? havent found anything while googling :(

burtandernie
04-17-2014, 03:21 PM
How many human studies were done with RU? I find it hard to believe they tested RU in humans and then after seeing how well it worked they decided there was not enough money so they shelved it or couldnt find a partner for it.
I just dont think it works, it has sides, its too large a molecule, it doesnt penetrate well enough or one of a hundred other technical reasons it doesnt work. So then every guy on here sees what he wants as he uses it along with other treatments and we never know whether it really works or not. Its a big crap shoot and its silly. I guess if your desperate though its worth a shot. Hopefully it has no sides.

hellouser
04-17-2014, 03:41 PM
How many human studies were done with RU? I find it hard to believe they tested RU in humans and then after seeing how well it worked they decided there was not enough money so they shelved it or couldnt find a partner for it.
I just dont think it works, it has sides, its too large a molecule, it doesnt penetrate well enough or one of a hundred other technical reasons it doesnt work. So then every guy on here sees what he wants as he uses it along with other treatments and we never know whether it really works or not. Its a big crap shoot and its silly. I guess if your desperate though its worth a shot. Hopefully it has no sides.

The same should be asked about NEOSH and Aderans.

Potm22
04-17-2014, 03:55 PM
How many human studies were done with RU? I find it hard to believe they tested RU in humans and then after seeing how well it worked they decided there was not enough money so they shelved it or couldnt find a partner for it.
I just dont think it works, it has sides, its too large a molecule, it doesnt penetrate well enough or one of a hundred other technical reasons it doesnt work. So then every guy on here sees what he wants as he uses it along with other treatments and we never know whether it really works or not. Its a big crap shoot and its silly. I guess if your desperate though its worth a shot. Hopefully it has no sides.

Judging by experiences from ppl who already tried it, severe sides seem really rare. And yes there might be a slight chance there are "hidden" longterm sides. But still, if theres a product that gives me a 1% chance of stopping my hairloss, i will alwaaaaays give it a try, even if it would cost me 1000$ per g or whatever. Guess ppl just got different views on that kind of stuff, which is perfectly fine.

jason1001
04-26-2014, 01:01 AM
The problem is what if it doesn't come out in 4 years or by the time it does you've lost all your hair.

maomao
05-17-2014, 01:57 PM
I've been reading the presentations on this - and one question.

Have they even used a chemical vehicle for the alopecia treatment? I only see mention of the iontophoresis.

If not - does this mean they are also still trying to work one out? (Or did I miss something somewhere?)

breakbot
05-17-2014, 02:31 PM
I've been reading the presentations on this - and one question.

Have they even used a chemical vehicle for the alopecia treatment? I only see mention of the iontophoresis.

If not - does this mean they are also still trying to work one out? (Or did I miss something somewhere?)

Nobody knows if they found for the alopecia version the right vehicle although they are working on a lotion by cosmo's presentation.
Iontophoresis was used in European trials.
It is very difficult to achieve the iontophoresis results anyway, but this doesn't mean they will have no success.
Sorry for my English.

burtandernie
05-17-2014, 02:35 PM
I know a long time is the right answer, but what year does the timeline predict this is going to come out?

lilpauly
05-17-2014, 03:14 PM
Nobody knows if they found for the alopecia version the right vehicle although they are working on a lotion by cosmo's presentation.
Iontophoresis was used in European trials.
It is very difficult to achieve the iontophoresis results anyway, but this doesn't mean they will have no success.
Sorry for my English.

They actually trying a gel formula right now in trials

jjo
05-17-2014, 04:19 PM
They actually trying a gel formula right now in trials


how do you know?

lilpauly
05-17-2014, 04:21 PM
how do you know?

Hi man it was in the Cosmo presrntaion

jjo
05-17-2014, 04:29 PM
Hi man it was in the Cosmo presrntaion

do you know more about it than most people?

maomao
05-17-2014, 05:56 PM
They actually trying a gel formula right now in trials
I can't find any reference to that, which presentation was it in? :)

So this also means then, that they don't even know it will work in a chemical solution - as all the results are only about iontophoresis?

Pate
05-18-2014, 07:33 PM
I can't find any reference to that, which presentation was it in? :)

So this also means then, that they don't even know it will work in a chemical solution - as all the results are only about iontophoresis?

Correct. This is the first human phase 2 trial to use a topical solution.

As for the vehicle, all I have seen them say is it's anhydrous, which means not water based. The acne treatment is cream based.

Anhydrous is not very informative as it covers a wide range of possibilities as to what the primary ingredients are.

deuce
05-19-2014, 09:34 PM
I think they release results at their quarterly report. I am pretty sure it is at the end of this month. Man we really need this soon. Especially now that it does not look like there will be a full blown cure for a while.

TravisB
05-20-2014, 03:50 AM
It better not fail, because if it fails we're ****ed.

It's our only chance for a better treatment in the near future.

The good thing is that CB-03-01 comes from well estabilished company - Cosmo Pharmaceuticals. They already managed to succesfully release several drugs on the market.

Also, CB will be licensed worldwide to another big pharma company - Valeant, so it's likely that Valeant knows that it works so they bought the rights and are pumping cash into research.

This is the latest statement about CB-03-01 from Cosmo (from March 27th 2014):


CB-03-01
Together with Intrepid Therapeutics we initiated the dose escalating phase II
trial for acne. The trial is progressing as planned and is expected to end in the
first half of 2014 with the end of phase III meeting scheduled late in the second
half.

During 2013 we completed additional formulation and stability tests for
CB-03-01 lotion for the treatment of alopecia. In late Q4 we had a pre IND meeting with the FDA with no additional requests being filed by the regulator. The proof of concept trial is scheduled to be started in the first half of 2014.

They will end (or have already ended) Phase II acne trials in H1 2014, and will probably start phase III in H2 2014, or 2015. So I think we can expect CB for acne on the market in 2017-2018. I wonder if acne cream will work for MPB?

Also, they plan to start (or have already started) Proof of Concept (also known as Phase I/IIa I believe) trial for alopecia in H1 2014. They say that they will be testing lotion CB in lotion for alopecia, so they already have some vehicle for it.

So if everything goes well, I think we'll have acne version on the shelves in 2017-2018, and MPB version 2-3 years later (or faster if CB will prove to be safe for acne, and maybe they will be able to speed up the process).

So 2020-2021 is probably when we'll have CB for MPB.

Well, I know that 6-7 years is not that near at all, but it's still better than to wait decades for promised "cures".

Allowme
05-25-2014, 03:29 AM
I can't hold off any longer. I am going to go with 5% cb once a week. Does anyone have a recommendation for a vehicle? How harsh is oleyl? I'm thinking of 9:1 oleyl and pg. Also, should I mention that I am going use cb to my doctor? Will I be ridiculed and forced to be on propecia instead?

Seuxin
05-25-2014, 03:32 AM
Hello,


5% once a week ? It's a bad idea....
You need to use 5% / Day.

Allowme
05-25-2014, 01:20 PM
Hello,


5% once a week ? It's a bad idea....
You need to use 5% / Day.

As far as I know, cosmo study showed cb is good for a week? Are you suggesting daily usuage because cosmo used iontophoresis? But isn't cosmo also developing topical cb that you only have to use once a week? I don't know what vehicle cosmo is using, but I doubt efficacy is so far off from the study. Perhaps twice a week? I know nothing of chemistry though. I cant afford daily use of cb 5%. In that case I will have to try ru instead. Please let me know what you guys think.

lilpauly
05-25-2014, 04:34 PM
Cosmo is giving a update in a week, right now I would not purchase cb because if the expense , ha e u considered find and Minox?

Allowme
05-25-2014, 06:30 PM
Cosmo is giving a update in a week, right now I would not purchase cb because if the expense , ha e u considered find and Minox?

I could hold off for another week I suppose. I feel iffy about fin and minox though. The whole systemic thing and minox's effect on the heart.

lilpauly
05-25-2014, 07:12 PM
I could hold off for another week I suppose. I feel iffy about fin and minox though. The whole systemic thing and minox's effect on the heart.

Don't be so foolish , jump on fin and Minox first

Allowme
05-25-2014, 07:45 PM
Don't be so foolish , jump on fin and Minox first

I am wary of minox due to family history. Some of those studies on minox and the heart sound worrisome. And it also sounds as though minox gains hair cosmetically not actually combatting androgen alopecia. I can't tell if I am being irrational or not due to sudden of hair loss. I am more convinced of trying cb than fin. Sorry for straying away from topic. All your inputs are appreciated. I spent so much tine reading through the forum I am having hard time digesting the info and decide what is the best course of action.

deuce
05-25-2014, 07:53 PM
My advice if you are worried about fin would see a cardiologist. Preferably someone who is familiar with your family history, and talk to him about minoxidil for you. As for the fin goes all you can do is try it. More people do not get sides than those who do.

hellouser
06-02-2014, 04:18 PM
Good news:

ClinicalTrials.gov Identifier: NCT01631474
Study Title: A Phase 2 Dose Escalating Study to Evaluate the Safety and Efficacy of CB-03-01 Cream in Subjects With Facial Acne Vulgaris
First Received: June 27, 2012
Last Updated: May 29, 2014

Source:
http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/archive/NCT01631474
http://clinicaltrials.gov/archive/NCT01631474/2014_05_29/changes

Looks like Phase II trials are done.

breakbot
06-02-2014, 04:19 PM
Good news:

ClinicalTrials.gov Identifier: NCT01631474
Study Title: A Phase 2 Dose Escalating Study to Evaluate the Safety and Efficacy of CB-03-01 Cream in Subjects With Facial Acne Vulgaris
First Received: June 27, 2012
Last Updated: May 29, 2014

Source:
http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/archive/NCT01631474
http://clinicaltrials.gov/archive/NCT01631474/2014_05_29/changes

Looks like Phase II trials are done.

How long does phase 3 lasts?

hellouser
06-02-2014, 04:24 PM
How long does phase 3 lasts?

God knows.... but couldn't this stuff hit the market already in Asia? I'd buy the stuff by the cases...

http://cdn.altcoinherald.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/shutup.jpg

breakbot
06-02-2014, 04:41 PM
God knows.... but couldn't this stuff hit the market already in Asia? I'd buy the stuff by the cases...

http://cdn.altcoinherald.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/shutup.jpg

Finally some good news, i hope that it'll work somehow even the acne version.
If we could find out the vehicle they use....

hgs1989
06-02-2014, 04:58 PM
God knows.... but couldn't this stuff hit the market already in Asia? I'd buy the stuff by the cases...

http://cdn.altcoinherald.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/shutup.jpg

I contacted replicel about early release in asia due to new rules by japan. bottom line is replicel expects to release their product early in asia. I cant think of a reason why cb won't be there sooner, not to mention others. evry body will be cashing in there. I really hope the west catches up. pretty sure europe will, but the US is a whole different story.if it becomes profitable in japan, big companies here will be influencing the FDA to do the same.

joachim
06-02-2014, 06:44 PM
shouldn't we try to contact cosmo and ask if an early release in asia is an option?
i mean, 2 phases are really enough to see safety and efficiency, so why not throw it on the market already and make some cash? at least they could sell it off-label or under a different name if they are afraid of some marketing complications or whatever.

would be worth a try, there's nothing to lose... is someone already in contact with them by email?

tommy e
06-02-2014, 06:59 PM
Good news:

ClinicalTrials.gov Identifier: NCT01631474
Study Title: A Phase 2 Dose Escalating Study to Evaluate the Safety and Efficacy of CB-03-01 Cream in Subjects With Facial Acne Vulgaris
First Received: June 27, 2012
Last Updated: May 29, 2014

Source:
http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/archive/NCT01631474
http://clinicaltrials.gov/archive/NCT01631474/2014_05_29/changes

Looks like Phase II trials are done.

Acne PII trials are done, but what about AA?
I can't find the Cosmo's presentation of the recent conference in NY.

Samsonite
06-03-2014, 10:31 AM
Could this be the the compound of CB cream:

excipients of CB-03-01 1% cream (cetyl alcohol, glyceryl
monostearate, liquid paraffin, propylene glycol, tocopherol,
sodium edetate, polysorbate 80, water).

http://intrepidthera.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/CB-03-01-Publication-BJD-2011-Trifu-et-al-.pdf

page 2 Study design and treatment

hellouser
06-03-2014, 10:55 AM
Could this be the the compound of CB cream:

excipients of CB-03-01 1% cream (cetyl alcohol, glyceryl
monostearate, liquid paraffin, propylene glycol, tocopherol,
sodium edetate, polysorbate 80, water).

http://intrepidthera.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/CB-03-01-Publication-BJD-2011-Trifu-et-al-.pdf

page 2 Study design and treatment

Looks like the vehicle for acne.

efedrez
06-03-2014, 12:50 PM
Looks like the vehicle for acne.

Even if the vehicle was designed for acne, would it make sense to use it for baldness?

I imagine that it will a creamy solution that will give us a hard time on the scalp with hairs but hopefully it will work anyway

yan
06-03-2014, 01:17 PM
Another small update from cosmo:

CB-03-01:
Only topical antiandrogen for treatment of acne and alopecia in
development
Outlicensed to Medicis/Valeant with $ 25m signing fee plus milestones
and low double digit royalties
Phase II completed in acne:
no major adverse event ocurred
data report available shortly
$ 20m milestone is due upon successful EOP II meeting with
FDA scheduled for September
POC in alopecia to start H2 2014: $ 10m milestone at completion
(6 months treatment; overall one year trial)

hellouser
06-03-2014, 01:29 PM
Even if the vehicle was designed for acne, would it make sense to use it for baldness?

I imagine that it will a creamy solution that will give us a hard time on the scalp with hairs but hopefully it will work anyway

Ingredient needs to sink underneath the skin. I can't see the cream working at all.

Sogeking
06-03-2014, 02:17 PM
Another small update from cosmo:

CB-03-01:
Only topical antiandrogen for treatment of acne and alopecia in
development
Outlicensed to Medicis/Valeant with $ 25m signing fee plus milestones
and low double digit royalties
Phase II completed in acne:
no major adverse event ocurred
data report available shortly
$ 20m milestone is due upon successful EOP II meeting with
FDA scheduled for September
POC in alopecia to start H2 2014: $ 10m milestone at completion
(6 months treatment; overall one year trial)


Nice man, one year phase 2 trial. They could be finished with Phase 2 alopecia trial by end of next year. Then if they enter phase 3 thats it.

rdawg
06-03-2014, 02:55 PM
Another small update from cosmo:

CB-03-01:
Only topical antiandrogen for treatment of acne and alopecia in
development
Outlicensed to Medicis/Valeant with $ 25m signing fee plus milestones
and low double digit royalties
Phase II completed in acne:
no major adverse event ocurred
data report available shortly
$ 20m milestone is due upon successful EOP II meeting with
FDA scheduled for September
POC in alopecia to start H2 2014: $ 10m milestone at completion
(6 months treatment; overall one year trial)

It's a very good sign when the treatment is approved for a different situation. If anything, we can possibly use it and modify it slightly to use it on our hair which is helpful.

Usually that means not having to go through a long phase II process, they could do Phase II within a year(arent they in Pre-clinical for the MPB treatment?)

So sounds like BIM and CB will be our near future options as of now.

maomao
06-03-2014, 03:07 PM
Another small update from cosmo:

CB-03-01:
Only topical antiandrogen for treatment of acne and alopecia in
development
Outlicensed to Medicis/Valeant with $ 25m signing fee plus milestones
and low double digit royalties
Phase II completed in acne:
no major adverse event ocurred
data report available shortly
$ 20m milestone is due upon successful EOP II meeting with
FDA scheduled for September
POC in alopecia to start H2 2014: $ 10m milestone at completion
(6 months treatment; overall one year trial)

Great! So this means the IND must have been accepted then - Phase 1 I assume will be pretty short as they already did the testing for the Acne treatment.

Once Phase 2 starts - is this when we will be able to find out what the vehicle is?

hellouser
06-03-2014, 03:13 PM
Once Phase 2 starts - is this when we will be able to find out what the vehicle is?

Good point! Maybe so. Hopefully Mark will have some info for us.

sdsurfin
06-03-2014, 04:01 PM
Great! So this means the IND must have been accepted then - Phase 1 I assume will be pretty short as they already did the testing for the Acne treatment.

Once Phase 2 starts - is this when we will be able to find out what the vehicle is?

Last I talked to them they said that the cream cannot be used on the scalp because the delivery vehicle and formula and concentration are all different.

There is no way they are going to tell people what the vehicle and recipe are. they are trying to sell it. we're gonna have to wait. we also don't even know if this stuff works or how well it will work, people on here hype shit up so much it's ridiculous. androgens are only part of the problem, as has been proved by finasteride. this might be a nice treatment, but a POC will take a year, phase one another, phase two another, phase three another etc. it takes 8 years to go through trials, maybe take two off if we're lucky because it's proven safe for acne. and then still I'm sure it will have side effects if it does work. everything has side effects, which is why stem cell treatments are exciting, because they di not use foreign drugs.

burtandernie
06-03-2014, 04:39 PM
I still think CB 03 01 is one of the nearest and most promising things because we know it will work. Propecia did the dirty work already we know what an AA can do and since this would be the first topical I think the sides will be minimal compared to propecia. I just hope its powerful and the vehicle gets the job done.
Of course, we have to wait and see. There are no sure things here and its going to be a long wait.

Swooping
06-03-2014, 05:08 PM
CB-03-01 is just as , or just a bit less powerful than RU58841. So whoever has hope for him miraculously regrowing all his hair with it, forget about it. 1% will be to weak to use for alopecia, just as RU58841 doesn't perform at 1%.

Prevention is key though, and cb-03-01 will really be extremely nice for young people (and everyone) who can hop on it and don't have to deal with possible anti-androgenic side effects.

maomao
06-03-2014, 05:51 PM
Last I talked to them they said that the cream cannot be used on the scalp because the delivery vehicle and formula and concentration are all different.

There is no way they are going to tell people what the vehicle and recipe are. they are trying to sell it. we're gonna have to wait. we also don't even know if this stuff works or how well it will work, people on here hype shit up so much it's ridiculous. androgens are only part of the problem, as has been proved by finasteride. this might be a nice treatment, but a POC will take a year, phase one another, phase two another, phase three another etc. it takes 8 years to go through trials, maybe take two off if we're lucky because it's proven safe for acne. and then still I'm sure it will have side effects if it does work. everything has side effects, which is why stem cell treatments are exciting, because they di not use foreign drugs.

POC is phase one and phase two. (Unless I'm mistaken)

As for the vehicle, the acne one is known, which is why I'm guessing the alopecia one would become known when trials start.

rdawg
06-03-2014, 05:53 PM
CB-03-01 is just as , or just a bit less powerful than RU58841. So whoever has hope for him miraculously regrowing all his hair with it, forget about it. 1% will be to weak to use for alopecia, just as RU58841 doesn't perform at 1%.

Prevention is key though, and cb-03-01 will really be extremely nice for young people (and everyone) who can hop on it and don't have to deal with possible anti-androgenic side effects.

I think it would be of interest for agressive hairloss sufferers and in general with it's stacking affect.

Mixing fin with CB which supposedly has a very good safety profile can potentially halt or improve the hair on an aggressive hairloss sufferer.

RU I don't feel as it's worth it imo as I've seen similar side effects happen to people and it just seems that CB for a similar price would be better.

deuce
06-03-2014, 06:10 PM
Last I talked to them they said that the cream cannot be used on the scalp because the delivery vehicle and formula and concentration are all different.

There is no way they are going to tell people what the vehicle and recipe are. they are trying to sell it. we're gonna have to wait. we also don't even know if this stuff works or how well it will work, people on here hype shit up so much it's ridiculous. androgens are only part of the problem, as has been proved by finasteride. this might be a nice treatment, but a POC will take a year, phase one another, phase two another, phase three another etc. it takes 8 years to go through trials, maybe take two off if we're lucky because it's proven safe for acne. and then still I'm sure it will have side effects if it does work. everything has side effects, which is why stem cell treatments are exciting, because they di not use foreign drugs.

I may be wrong, but wasn't the IND for Acne filed in 2012?

Swooping
06-03-2014, 06:15 PM
I think it would be of interest for agressive hairloss sufferers and in general with it's stacking affect.

Mixing fin with CB which supposedly has a very good safety profile can potentially halt or improve the hair on an aggressive hairloss sufferer.

RU I don't feel as it's worth it imo as I've seen similar side effects happen to people and it just seems that CB for a similar price would be better.

Well let me put it to you this way then perhaps you understand. If you were both to apply RU and CB in the same %. You are yielding pretty much CB useless because it will lose competing to the androgen receptor.

But yeah, the lack of supposedly side effects for CB is extremely nice that will help out many people who generally are very susceptible to side effects whether that is from fin, dut , ru etc.

But prevention is one thing, when damage to the cells is done and it is to late you ain't going reverse your hairloss even if you were to inhibit the AR 100% and stop androgens completely from binding. Simple as that.

rdawg
06-03-2014, 06:24 PM
Well let me put it to you this way then perhaps you understand. If you were both to apply RU and CB in the same %. You are yielding pretty much CB useless because it will lose competing to the androgen receptor.



Wouldn't it be a different story with Fin+CB though as fin is systemic while RU is topical?

I'm essentially saying wouldn't it help inhibit more and do more to halt the loss?

Your last sentence may be true now, but it seems clear that science is figuring a way to awaken those 'damaged' cells. So what we clearly need to worry about is maintenance and getting any growth that we can now and in the near future until a major product comes out in the next decade.

Pate
06-04-2014, 06:26 AM
Wouldn't it be a different story with Fin+CB though as fin is systemic while RU is topical?

I'm essentially saying wouldn't it help inhibit more and do more to halt the loss?

Yes, Fin+CB would be more effective than CB alone. They have quite different mechanisms. Fin is a 5AR inhibitor while CB is an androgen antagonist. But CB may be effective enough on its own that the benefit of adding fin is not really noticeable. I for one plan to discontinue fin as soon as I can get a reliable, proven source of CB in an effective vehicle.

CB+RU would probably just be like applying a double dose of one or the other.

RU shouldn't really have androgenic systemic effects, from what work has been done. It has a tiny systemic effect, but the active metabolite of RU is very much in the minority - something like 1%. The other 99% of metabolised RU is inactive, like the metabolite of CB. So CB and RU should both have basically no systemic sides.

So when guys are reporting sides from RU, I can only really see three explanations:

1. The research was wrong about RU and it's more systemic than first thought
2. These guys getting sides are SERIOUSLY sensitive to anti-androgens
3. There is a placebo component to the sides

I have mild sides from fin but nothing at all from RU, which is I believe what the vast majority of guys will experience.

Paul73
06-04-2014, 07:02 AM
Yes, Fin+CB would be more effective than CB alone. They have quite different mechanisms. Fin is a 5AR inhibitor while CB is an androgen antagonist. But CB may be effective enough on its own that the benefit of adding fin is not really noticeable. I for one plan to discontinue fin as soon as I can get a reliable, proven source of CB in an effective vehicle.

CB+RU would probably just be like applying a double dose of one or the other.

RU shouldn't really have androgenic systemic effects, from what work has been done. It has a tiny systemic effect, but the active metabolite of RU is very much in the minority - something like 1%. The other 99% of metabolised RU is inactive, like the metabolite of CB. So CB and RU should both have basically no systemic sides.

So when guys are reporting sides from RU, I can only really see three explanations:

1. The research was wrong about RU and it's more systemic than first thought
2. These guys getting sides are SERIOUSLY sensitive to anti-androgens
3. There is a placebo component to the sides

I have mild sides from fin but nothing at all from RU, which is I believe what the vast majority of guys will experience.

Good post.

Since you seem to know a lot about RU, what are your thoughts about the cancer risk on it? I mean, the substance was not tested in humans long enough to check this possibility. So how do you know if in the long run it will not cause tumors?

Or we will never know the answer?

Thanks!

rdawg
06-04-2014, 12:09 PM
Yes, Fin+CB would be more effective than CB alone. They have quite different mechanisms. Fin is a 5AR inhibitor while CB is an androgen antagonist. But CB may be effective enough on its own that the benefit of adding fin is not really noticeable. I for one plan to discontinue fin as soon as I can get a reliable, proven source of CB in an effective vehicle.


Thanks for answering this is what I thought. Essentially Fin is more systemic/general CB is more localised.

I think aggressive sufferers need a two-pronged approach, I don't suffer from sides but my hair is very slowly getting worse(i've been NW3 for about 2 years now, but I'm guessing I'll be NW4 within the next two years)

Either way if we can get CB here AND BIM as well, it may be a very good booster for our hair while we wait for a more complete, advanced solution that may come down the road.

maomao
06-04-2014, 04:30 PM
I may be wrong, but wasn't the IND for Acne filed in 2012?

Yes - it was - http://www.cosmopharmaceuticals.com/news/press/2012/12-03-12.aspx

The US Phase II study then started 3 months later (June 2012) and was completed Feb 2014 (http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT01631474?term=CB-03-01&rank=1)

Interestingly, before the US Phase II trials had started, they had already done Phase II studies in Europe - although this doesn't show up anywhere on the EU Clinical Trials register (https://www.clinicaltrialsregister.eu/ctr-search/search). I'm not sure if this is the case with the Alopecia as well?

What I can't find though, is when Cosmos first gave out the Acne cream vehicle - it would be nice to see how long after phase II went active they did that. It might give us a rough time when the alopecia vehicle will be known...

Pate
06-06-2014, 06:10 AM
Good post.

Since you seem to know a lot about RU, what are your thoughts about the cancer risk on it? I mean, the substance was not tested in humans long enough to check this possibility. So how do you know if in the long run it will not cause tumors?

Or we will never know the answer?

Thanks!

It's impossible to really know. It must have passed all its safety tests to get to Phase II, including some pretty significant pre-clinical toxicology trials, so I doubt there is any really significant cancer risk, but since it never went to large-scale testing it's possible.

It's one of the risks you've got to take if you use an unapproved compound, I guess.

Paul73
06-07-2014, 01:56 PM
It's impossible to really know. It must have passed all its safety tests to get to Phase II, including some pretty significant pre-clinical toxicology trials, so I doubt there is any really significant cancer risk, but since it never went to large-scale testing it's possible.

It's one of the risks you've got to take if you use an unapproved compound, I guess.

Thanks, Pate.
Have you been using RU for a long time? Whats your experience with this?

FearTheLoss
06-08-2014, 11:43 PM
what phase are they in for alopecia? when will we get an update? and when is the estimated commercialization?

deuce
06-11-2014, 11:31 PM
I do not know ehy people are saying the alopecia version wont be for another 8 years. The ind for acne was filed 2 years ago and its eta is 2-3 years from now

goldnt
06-16-2014, 08:35 PM
I could of sworn thhey said in one of their previous presentations that they were going to start phase trials 1 for alopecia in either 2,3,4(ik sorry i forgot) quarter of the 2014 year.

FearTheLoss
06-16-2014, 09:39 PM
I thought they were already done w phase 1. I believe it says that on their site.

Duke
06-17-2014, 01:42 AM
Correct, FearTheLoss

according to this they are done with phase 1 and about to start phase 2

http://www.cosmopharmaceuticals.com/~/media/Files/C/Cosmo-Pharmaceuticals/product_pipeline_03_14.pdf

FearTheLoss
06-18-2014, 08:42 AM
Guys I just spoke with a representative for Cosmo and they are actually well underway with their "phase II proof of concept trials" for alopecia. They are starting phase III for acne in the coming months. This is a great sign, it looks as if they, as well as other companies, are further than we are aware of.

FTL

hellouser
06-18-2014, 08:46 AM
Guys I just spoke with a representative for Cosmo and they are actually well underway with their "phase II proof of concept trials" for alopecia. They are starting phase III for acne in the coming months. This is a great sign, it looks as if they, as well as other companies, are further than we are aware of.

FTL

Can you copy/paste the email conversation???

FearTheLoss
06-18-2014, 08:54 AM
"Hello,

I'm very interested in your companies progress with the CB compound for hair loss. I see that you have finished phase 1 trials. When are phase 2 trials beginning?"

"Hi *********,
We have completed phase II acne and will start with phase III in the coming months. We are in proof of concept phase II for alopecia right now.
Best regards

Dr. Chris Tanner
Chief Financial Officer

cid:image001.jpg@01CD06A8.A2EBD7D0
Via C. Colombo, 1
20020 Lainate, Milan - Italy
Phone: + 39 02 93 33 7453
Fax: + 39 02 93 33 7604
CTanner@cosmopharma.com
www.cosmopharma.com"

Sogeking
06-18-2014, 09:54 AM
"Hello,

I'm very interested in your companies progress with the CB compound for hair loss. I see that you have finished phase 1 trials. When are phase 2 trials beginning?"

"Hi *********,
We have completed phase II acne and will start with phase III in the coming months. We are in proof of concept phase II for alopecia right now.
Best regards

Dr. Chris Tanner
Chief Financial Officer

cid:image001.jpg@01CD06A8.A2EBD7D0
Via C. Colombo, 1
20020 Lainate, Milan - Italy
Phone: + 39 02 93 33 7453
Fax: + 39 02 93 33 7604
CTanner@cosmopharma.com
www.cosmopharma.com"
NOICE!!!

CB will come within 5 years. This is good. Replicel will follow. With pilofocus they might be some kind of a bridge towards the cure we are waiting for.

Scalpology
06-18-2014, 10:30 AM
If CB will come out in 5 years, how come people have gotten and tested it before now?

FearTheLoss
06-18-2014, 10:34 AM
Yes, as long as the proof of concept phase II results are similar to their initial study results we should see CB out in 3-5 years max.

stan
06-18-2014, 11:32 AM
Yes, as long as the proof of concept phase II results are similar to their initial study results we should see CB out in 3-5 years max.
what happens after phase 3? are there only three phases? what is motive behind each phase? sorry i am a newbie.

tommy e
06-18-2014, 12:03 PM
what happens after phase 3? are there only three phases? what is motive behind each phase? sorry i am a newbie.

I think they are like 5 phases, but drugs undergoing phase 3 trials can be marketed under FDA norms, the rest phases are postmarketing. :)

sascha
06-18-2014, 01:29 PM
what happens after phase 3? are there only three phases? what is motive behind each phase? sorry i am a newbie.

phase 1 is for showing that the drugs does something.
phase 2 is for testing for a longer period of time, around 1,5 years+. There they also find out the perfect dosage.
phase 3 is the phase where they meet with the FDA and clear about the steps that need to be done to enter the market. another 6 month - 1 year.

a wikipedia search will bring you good information about it.

hellouser
06-18-2014, 02:07 PM
phase 1 is for showing that the drugs does something.
phase 2 is for testing for a longer period of time, around 1,5 years+. There they also find out the perfect dosage.
phase 3 is the phase where they meet with the FDA and clear about the steps that need to be done to enter the market. another 6 month - 1 year.

a wikipedia search will bring you good information about it.

Phase I is safety.

sascha
06-18-2014, 02:25 PM
Yes hellouser is right. phase 1 is safety and efficiency to some degree. Sorry

Pentarou
06-18-2014, 03:14 PM
Does anyone know what the European Union equivalent to the FDA and its 'phases' are, and if they know of there's information on how far along CB-03-01 is along with it?

stan
06-19-2014, 07:38 AM
wow thank you very much guys! much appreciated.

35YrsAfter
06-19-2014, 07:49 AM
Update from Cosmo.

http://www.cosmopharma.com/~/media/Files/C/Cosmo-Pharmaceuticals/ir/presentations/25-01-2013/RDDAY_25JAN13_v5.pdf

Thanks for posting. I believe that treatments more effective than Propecia and Avodart will be available within the next few years.

35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office - forhair.com - Cole Hair Transplant 1070 Powers Place Alpharetta, Georgia 30009 - Phone 678-566-1011 - email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
The contents of my posts are my opinions and not medical advice. Please feel free to call or email me with any questions. Ask for Chuck

FearTheLoss
06-19-2014, 08:11 AM
Thanks for posting. I believe that treatments more effective than Propecia and Avodart will be available within the next few years.

35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office - forhair.com - Cole Hair Transplant 1070 Powers Place Alpharetta, Georgia 30009 - Phone 678-566-1011 - email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
The contents of my posts are my opinions and not medical advice. Please feel free to call or email me with any questions. Ask for Chuck

Correct me if I'm wrong, but they finish POC in March of 2015, so we could see this hit the market by the end of 2016, baring they get the results they want in POC.

CB won't need a phase IIb? Also, this could be released overseas in 2015?

sdsurfin
06-19-2014, 08:18 AM
How did the acne product go so fast from IND to phase II? If you look at the alopecia product, the timeline goes from IND to a long time in proof of concept. Is proff of concept the same as phase II or I? Either way I'm not sure why people are saying 3-5 years, it seems more like 2 more for phase 1, another 2 probably for phase 2, and maybe another for phase 3, and then putting it out to market after that. 6-8 seems more realistic. And that's if this BS even works, they compare it to flutamide on here, didn't people try that with no success? Also, I doubt there's any great mystery to the vehicle, they are just using anhydrous solution, I'm sure if this was really a bette treatment than propecia then people would have seen results by now. Wouldnt put my hopes on this stuff.

stan
06-19-2014, 08:42 AM
How did the acne product go so fast from IND to phase II? If you look at the alopecia product, the timeline goes from IND to a long time in proof of concept. Is proff of concept the same as phase II or I? Either way I'm not sure why people are saying 3-5 years, it seems more like 2 more for phase 1, another 2 probably for phase 2, and maybe another for phase 3, and then putting it out to market after that. 6-8 seems more realistic. And that's if this BS even works, they compare it to flutamide on here, didn't people try that with no success? Also, I doubt there's any great mystery to the vehicle, they are just using anhydrous solution, I'm sure if this was really a bette treatment than propecia then people would have seen results by now. Wouldnt put my hopes on this stuff.
i think they are done with phase I and in phase II already, acc to a guy who contacted people at cosmo. can you please tell me if there was any study etc that shows that cb has been more effective than fin, i mean a lot of people here say that it would be like topical fin but better, but based on what?

Atum
06-19-2014, 09:47 AM
Didn't Kane shop said last year in dec. or something like that they would release a cream or gel in 3-4 months time? Where the heck is it?

Paul73
06-19-2014, 11:08 AM
If CB-03-01 is already for sale at Kane, why should we wait for Cosmos trials?

Isnt Hellouser using CB with great success? Why not follow his protocol to prepare it right now?

BTW, Hellouser. are you still using CB? Could you update us about your recent results on it?

Id appreciate your feedback. Thanks!

Denda
06-19-2014, 11:22 AM
I agree, if they design it to be applied via pulse therapy the atrophy should be avoided

Seuxin
06-19-2014, 11:58 AM
Paul73,

Yes, you could buy CB-03-01 on kane, but you need to have the good vehicle with it.
In addition, CB-03-01 is heay heavy higher price !!! :\

rdawg
06-19-2014, 03:12 PM
This, along with BIM seems clearly on track for release. It's a very good sign when the product is already released/about to be released for a different situation.

BIM will be done phase IIb by january, likely moving on barring massive side effects(or if it doesnt work enough for them)

CB looks like it wont even need phase IIb given it's more of a product similar to fin, but it's an interesting product in that it can be used alone with seemingly no side effects OR it can be stacked on top of fin(for aggressive sufferers) to give an even better result.

Seems likely we'll have 1-2 new products by 2016, albeit they wont be cures, but they'll be new solutions.

rdawg
06-19-2014, 03:14 PM
If CB-03-01 is already for sale at Kane, why should we wait for Cosmos trials?

Isnt Hellouser using CB with great success? Why not follow his protocol to prepare it right now?

BTW, Hellouser. are you still using CB? Could you update us about your recent results on it?

Id appreciate your feedback. Thanks!

Vehicle issues really is the situation, Desmond seemed to have found a proper one but it was IMO too complex for the average person to put together(it was like 10 different chemicals).

If they put together something proper it'll be great to get it earlier, i'm very interested in seeing their phase I results or Phase II results next year though.

Paul73
06-19-2014, 03:43 PM
Vehicle issues really is the situation, Desmond seemed to have found a proper one but it was IMO too complex for the average person to put together(it was like 10 different chemicals).

If they put together something proper it'll be great to get it earlier, i'm very interested in seeing their phase I results or Phase II results next year though.

rdawg, thanks for the answer.

i agree that the vehicle is the issue here, but thats why i asked for Hellouser update. If i am not wrong he is using CB with good results.

Maybe when phase II trials for hair loss start we will know which vehicle Cosmos is using.

Hey Hellouser, can you comment about your actual status on CB?

Thanks guys!

Swooping
06-19-2014, 04:46 PM
Vehicle issues really is the situation, Desmond seemed to have found a proper one but it was IMO too complex for the average person to put together(it was like 10 different chemicals).

If they put together something proper it'll be great to get it earlier, i'm very interested in seeing their phase I results or Phase II results next year though.

Sorry but there are really no vehicle issues for CB.. The problem is the price, not the vehicle. PG/ETH is completely fine as a vehicle only thing that isn't known is the stability but you can make daily batches to cope with that. You really need to use at least like a 3% concentration though and preferably 5%.

LMS
06-20-2014, 02:56 AM
Sorry but there are really no vehicle issues for CB.. The problem is the price, not the vehicle. PG/ETH is completely fine as a vehicle only thing that isn't known is the stability but you can make daily batches to cope with that. You really need to use at least like a 3% concentration though and preferably 5%.

isnt the permeability of pg/eth pretty bad though. i believe cosmo released studies showing (on cadaver skin) that penetration was like many times better with oleyl alcohol.

i think some sort of solvent or a combination is needed. dmi/nmp/oleyl. dmso would almost definately work though no practical :p

price is also a huge factor. price im willing to pay for side effect free aa.

Scalpology
06-20-2014, 05:07 AM
Is it worth taking if I'm already on RU?

LMS
06-20-2014, 02:56 PM
Is it worth taking if I'm already on RU?

They're both topical anti androgens. The only reason you'd want to go on CB is if you're getting sides on RU (like I do, much less than fin sides tho).
Stacking them together would yield little improvement over one.

burtandernie
06-20-2014, 07:28 PM
If this BS works? How is something going through trials to prove it works at the highest standards in existance any kind of BS compared to the huge list of previous topicals where the company just says it works maybe with a small study to support it? Something going through trials is a different league of proof than anything else. If it doesnt work it will be shown and they wouldnt even be going to further trials and its already far enough along in acne to be pretty sure it works.
They will find a vehicle that works or it will never come out I guess. Some small early study said it was about twice as strong as fin, but finding the right dose if its higher might do better who knows. You dont know anything until they go through this long process and prove it

torontostringer
06-27-2014, 06:44 PM
can i mix this into minox and leave on the shelf or should i store it in the fridge?

Paul73
07-02-2014, 01:09 PM
What about CB-03-01 pre-made solution from Iron Dragon?

They are selling it since 2013. Has anybody tried it?

hellouser
07-02-2014, 01:53 PM
What about CB-03-01 pre-made solution from Iron Dragon?

They are selling it since 2013. Has anybody tried it?

As has been mentioned numerous times; Iron Dragon does NOT reveal purity tests of their CB-03-01 compound. Make of that what you will.

Paul73
07-02-2014, 03:58 PM
As has been mentioned numerous times; Iron Dragon does NOT reveal purity tests of their CB-03-01 compound. Make of that what you will.

Thank you. I confess i didnt do the ideal research to know about that.

Please, do you mind to comment about your recent experience with CB? Do you believe that you are using a efficient vehicle? Id appreciate your feedback on it. I imagine other friends here would like to know about that too. Sorry if you already detailed it.

Thanks!

Paul73
07-03-2014, 10:32 AM
_

joachim
07-08-2014, 01:24 PM
hey guys. wasn't kane planning to bring a gel or nano-vehicle for cb? wasn't kane able to develop it or what? does anybody know more about kane's team? how many people are working there? are these professional chemists or what kind of guys are they?

i just wondered... are we really supposed to wait for cosmo's official release of their cb?
can't we just find a company (some chemists professionals) and pay them some money to help us with the vehicle? what about crowdfunding? i don't think that more than 100.000 are required for that mission. this would be an easy goal to crowdfund, and could bring us CB three years sooner. who knows for how long cosmo will be dancing around with their phases. so, do we really just have to wait all those years?

lilpauly
07-08-2014, 02:03 PM
Cosmo announces successful conclusion of acne Phase II trial and agreement with Valeant to continue developing CB-03-01 in house

Lainate, Italy – July 8, 2014 – Cosmo Pharmaceuticals S.p.A. (SIX: COPN) today informed that it had successfully concluded the phase II acne trials of CB-03-01 and that, prior to the upcoming end of phase II meeting with the FDA, both Cosmo and Valeant Pharmaceuticals International, Inc., the licensee (NYSE / TSX: VRX), had agreed that it was preferable for both parties for Cosmo to continue developing the drug. Consequently both Cosmo and Valeant agreed to unwind the present agreement and replace it with an agreement granting Valeant a right of first refusal should Cosmo decide to license out the drug after completing its development.Alessandro Della Ch, CEO, commented: “I am very pleased by the results of this phase II, and even more pleased that Cosmo can continue developing the products in-house, leveraging on all the accumulated know how. Their potential is very significant, so the retention of the rights now allow us to create a stronger franchise in the derma field. Together with CB-03-01 we now have 5 products in clinical development. Given our strong financial position and in-house expertise, we are well equipped to exploit the potential of this rich pipeline for the benefit of patients and shareholders”."

http://www.cosmopharma.com/news/press/2 ... 07-08.aspx

joachim
07-08-2014, 02:24 PM
thanks lilpauly. but what does it mean exactly? ok, a successful phase 2 for acne completed, but the hairloss version is still more than 3 years away, if not more. no?

clarence
07-08-2014, 02:56 PM
CB all over the last 2 years at numerous forums, along the right ingretients to penetrate the scalp. Nothing has come out of it

burtandernie
07-08-2014, 03:41 PM
Of course its going to be a long wait, but less of wait than some of the other stuff hyped up around here. The one thing I worry about CB is just the cost of this once if it does get finished. Its going to cost a fortune to make up for getting through the FDA.
Something will come out of it once it gets approval and you can buy it knowing that its proven and formulated to work

kmit028
07-08-2014, 07:10 PM
There is a newly found vehicle that may work:

NMP or DMI + ethanol + glycerol or PG or BG

NMP - http://www.hairlosshelp.com/forums/messageview.cfm?catid=7&threadid=111435&enterthread=y

Use NMP to dissolve CB, then just use the 70/30 or 80/20 vehicle of ethanol + glycerol/PG/BG

Also have a look here
http://www.hairlosshelp.com/forums/messageview.cfm?catid=7&threadid=111881&enterthread=y

rdawg
07-08-2014, 08:14 PM
CB all over the last 2 years at numerous forums, along the right ingretients to penetrate the scalp. Nothing has come out of it

I've never actually seen a member using it with the proper vehicle though, it's my understanding many of the vehicles members were using werent actually penetrating the scalp and that the vehicle is slightly more complex than just ethanol for example.

Great news that was posted above this comment though, this drug like Propecia was(and BIM was), is about to get approved for something else, very very likely this gets approved for hairloss as well barring very poor results, the next year will be very interesting.

Personally, I'm waiting to see Phase I/II hairloss trial results, if they're promising I'll be jumping on band wagon right away and stack this on top of FIN.

yan
07-09-2014, 04:19 AM
Salix Pharmaceuticals to Combine with Cosmo Technologies to Form Salix Pharmaceuticals, plc

http://www.cosmopharmaceuticals.com/news/press/2014/2014-07-09.aspx

After the deal, cosmo owns 19.4 million shares of Salix, worth at $2.7 billion.

The cosmo share price is exploding. Around 90% rise in only 3 months and 200% rise in the last year.

I think these are all good signs. In most cases, when cosmo started developing a drug, it made it to market. They are very well capitalized, so from the financial part, things look very good. The risk is very low that they get bought up per example.

burtandernie
07-09-2014, 03:56 PM
As an added benefit I think its possible CB 03 01 could be used to prevent unwanted hair growth. I would be curious to see how it does on just body hair or facial hair if it really interferes with both T and DHT in a powerful enough way it should have some effect. What happens to body/facial hair if you not only significantly lower DHT but also T does hair growth stop/slow or unaffected? I am curious to see that.

ShookOnes
07-10-2014, 05:14 AM
Can't believe I've been lurking for years but never bothered to look at this thread until a few nights ago. Will Pilofocus+CB be the closest thing we have to a cure? And CB is applied once a week? I'm 21 but I've had sexual sides from fin but as a diffuser I can't stop or I'll very quickly become a NW7 from my NW3 in a matter of years

BoSox
07-10-2014, 07:49 AM
Is CB still on schedule to be released 2015 in the US? Also, is this only a stronger form of Rogaine? I'm a diffuse thinner, and worried nothing will work on me a year from now.

FearTheLoss
07-10-2014, 09:32 AM
CB for acne was scheduled for 2015..for alopecia it was originally 2016 or 2017 I believe..and no it, in preclinical trials, looked to be a stronger version of propecia without side effects.

yan
07-10-2014, 01:30 PM
Update from Cosmo:

http://www.cosmopharmaceuticals.com/~/media/Files/C/Cosmo-Pharmaceuticals/ir/presentations/2014/20140708Zurichpresentationfinal.pdf

CB-03-01 Phase II data for acne look very promising.

- Phase II dose ranging trial completed
- Best dose identified
- 1.0% BID (twice a day) treatment group had the best results
- No adverse events
- Phase III scheduled to start Q4 2014.


I think the acne version will be out in 2016. Alopecia 2017 - 2018.

burtandernie
07-10-2014, 03:56 PM
Every time I see someone mention CB its a different number of years until it comes out. I think the last one on here I read he said 6 years which puts it at 2020 or 2021? I hope im not dead by then

JZA70
07-10-2014, 05:20 PM
Every time I see someone mention CB its a different number of years until it comes out.

That's speculation at it's finest.

cthulhu2
07-10-2014, 07:56 PM
Cosmo announces successful conclusion of acne Phase II trial and agreement with Valeant to continue developing CB-03-01 in house

Lainate, Italy – July 8, 2014 – Cosmo Pharmaceuticals S.p.A. (SIX: COPN) today informed that it had successfully concluded the phase II acne trials of CB-03-01 and that, prior to the upcoming end of phase II meeting with the FDA, both Cosmo and Valeant Pharmaceuticals International, Inc., the licensee (NYSE / TSX: VRX), had agreed that it was preferable for both parties for Cosmo to continue developing the drug. Consequently both Cosmo and Valeant agreed to unwind the present agreement and replace it with an agreement granting Valeant a right of first refusal should Cosmo decide to license out the drug after completing its development.Alessandro Della Ch, CEO, commented: “I am very pleased by the results of this phase II, and even more pleased that Cosmo can continue developing the products in-house, leveraging on all the accumulated know how. Their potential is very significant, so the retention of the rights now allow us to create a stronger franchise in the derma field. Together with CB-03-01 we now have 5 products in clinical development. Given our strong financial position and in-house expertise, we are well equipped to exploit the potential of this rich pipeline for the benefit of patients and shareholders”."

http://www.cosmopharma.com/news/press/2 ... 07-08.aspx

I don't understand why people are so negative, this is great news! Think about all of the other topical anti androgens that were in the pipeline (neosh-101, asc-j9, ru) and failed to make it into phase III. I don't think we have to worry about the fact that the alopecia trials are lagging behind the acne trials since doctors would likely prescribe it off label to treat AGA (think dutasteride).

lothar99
07-10-2014, 08:17 PM
There is a new PDF up today from Cosmo's "Investors and Analysts Meeting" in Germany. They do discuss the Phase 2 acne results (but no vehicle) and they call the results "very promising", there were no "adverse events", and Phase 3 begins this year.

http://www.cosmopharmaceuticals.com/~/media/Files/C/Cosmo-Pharmaceuticals/ir/presentations/2014/20140708Zurichpresentationfinal.pdf

ShookOnes
07-11-2014, 01:35 AM
I don't understand why people are so negative, this is great news! Think about all of the other topical anti androgens that were in the pipeline (neosh-101, asc-j9, ru) and failed to make it into phase III. I don't think we have to worry about the fact that the alopecia trials are lagging behind the acne trials since doctors would likely prescribe it off label to treat AGA (think dutasteride).

this is exactly the point of the trials to the blind uneducated idiots that can't see through this. Comso is an enormous financially powerful company. They would know that something for DHT would be much more difficult to get through FDA as it is hormones you are trying to affect, which would require quite some more time than good ol' acne cream. Acne cream which has a side effect of stopping baldness if you apply on scalp. dear lord i should get my transplant soon.

ShookOnes
07-11-2014, 04:30 AM
Is CB still on schedule to be released 2015 in the US? Also, is this only a stronger form of Rogaine? I'm a diffuse thinner, and worried nothing will work on me a year from now.

I'm a diffuser also. Went form NW 0 -> 3 with thin scalp in 2 years. GET ON FIN. Diffusers are alike, it will regrow everything except temples in a year. Stop the fin after you regrow everything because CB will be available then.
CB is scheduled for acne in 2015, if we get it off label then the game will be different in a year for us, brother. If not, 2016 will be the year for AA at the latest.

And NO, it is not just a stronger form of rogaine. It is basically rogaine+fin on steroids. I believe you only need to apply it once a week on the scalp also.

LMS
07-11-2014, 04:37 AM
And NO, it is not just a stronger form of rogaine. It is basically rogaine+fin on steroids. I believe you only need to apply it once a week on the scalp also.

CB is just an anti androgen much like RU, sans sides. Its also a mild anti inflammatory due to being a potent steroidal anti androgen. Far from anything like rogaine...

ShookOnes
07-11-2014, 05:37 AM
whoops i mean 2017/2018? how come you can't edit posts after a few hours ;s

sdsurfin
07-11-2014, 08:55 AM
You don't know any of this, nor do I think it's even accurate. CB has only just begun preclinical trials for AA(clinical trials take 8 years). I spoke to them a while back and they said that if the acne version proves safe, then it might take a couple years off the testing time for AA. still looking at 5 years or so. Also, they were pretty vehement that the acne version will do nothing for AA. They said the concentration is different and the vehicle is totally different. Which means that we will still be at the same place with it as we are now, until they come out with the aa version (if it works and they ever do). Lotta ifs here, and no way it comes to market that soon. They just filed the IND, and you can't go around saying it's like "rgaine and fin on steroids" when all we have to back that up is one little trial that used iontophoresis, which we can't use anyway. Anyhow a lot of the time these initial trials don't mean squat. RU and other compounds had great initial trials and then failed. Not trying to be negative or say that it won't be a great drug, it might be. But let's stop getting people all hyped up, especially with these bogus timelines.

sdsurfin
07-11-2014, 08:59 AM
this is exactly the point of the trials to the blind uneducated idiots that can't see through this. Comso is an enormous financially powerful company. They would know that something for DHT would be much more difficult to get through FDA as it is hormones you are trying to affect, which would require quite some more time than good ol' acne cream. Acne cream which has a side effect of stopping baldness if you apply on scalp. dear lord i should get my transplant soon.


this statement makes no sense. They are both used to block DHT. they are testing acne first because it's a bigger and more reliable market. period. It's also easier to treat acne than alopecia, and can be used for women and men. Also you will not be able to use the acne version on your head. Cosmo confirmed this to me a while back, so stop getting people all hyped on the idea. It's a different concentration and vehicle, and you can't just remove the chemical from the cream or something. I doubt CB will even work for alopecia, vehicles are not that complicated and people have been getting no results from this on the black market. Just because it worked with iontophoresis doesn't mean that it will ever work as a topical.

sascha
07-11-2014, 09:31 AM
Actually the website of cosmo states that IND for CB 03 01 for acne was in Q1 2012, began phase 2 in H2 2012 And as you all may know, finished phase 2 a couple of days ago.
They should have filled the IND for CB 03 01 for alopecia in H1 2014.
Q1 2012 -> July 2014 = around 28 months for the acne version.
To all Inspector Gadgets out there, have fun :)

ShookOnes
07-11-2014, 12:03 PM
this statement makes no sense. They are both used to block DHT. they are testing acne first because it's a bigger and more reliable market. period. It's also easier to treat acne than alopecia, and can be used for women and men. Also you will not be able to use the acne version on your head. Cosmo confirmed this to me a while back, so stop getting people all hyped on the idea. It's a different concentration and vehicle, and you can't just remove the chemical from the cream or something. I doubt CB will even work for alopecia, vehicles are not that complicated and people have been getting no results from this on the black market. Just because it worked with iontophoresis doesn't mean that it will ever work as a topical.


2010, http://www.cosmopharmaceuticals.com/news/press/pr2010/2010-10-06.aspx

Mauro Ajani, Chief Executive Officer of Cosmo Pharmaceuticals, said: We are extremely pleased with this result. This is the first step towards establishing CB-03-01 as an effective, topically applied anti-androgen and could therefore mark a major breakthrough for all men and women affected by androgenetic alopecia. Currently the only FDA approved anti-androgen for this condition is Propecia..."

True but you're just a guy on the internet criticizing a financially driven billion-dollar company that's trying to knock down propecia and take over the entire market. And they're still progressing with this, 4 years later. i belib

Phatalis
07-11-2014, 01:11 PM
This might be a rediculous question. But if CB already works miraculously with iontopherorsisisis or whatever... why the **** cant we just like... do that? get treatments with that?

Like.. idk. Can't they make a machine for home use?? Idk.. tell me why im dumb

hellouser
07-11-2014, 01:18 PM
This might be a rediculous question. But if CB already works miraculously with iontopherorsisisis or whatever... why the **** cant we just like... do that? get treatments with that?

Like.. idk. Can't they make a machine for home use?? Idk.. tell me why im dumb

The machine costs so much, that if you had the money for it just to save your hair, you probably wouldn't care about being bald.

FearTheLoss
07-11-2014, 01:20 PM
You don't know any of this, nor do I think it's even accurate. CB has only just begun preclinical trials for AA(clinical trials take 8 years). I spoke to them a while back and they said that if the acne version proves safe, then it might take a couple years off the testing time for AA. still looking at 5 years or so. Also, they were pretty vehement that the acne version will do nothing for AA. They said the concentration is different and the vehicle is totally different. Which means that we will still be at the same place with it as we are now, until they come out with the aa version (if it works and they ever do). Lotta ifs here, and no way it comes to market that soon. They just filed the IND, and you can't go around saying it's like "rgaine and fin on steroids" when all we have to back that up is one little trial that used iontophoresis, which we can't use anyway. Anyhow a lot of the time these initial trials don't mean squat. RU and other compounds had great initial trials and then failed. Not trying to be negative or say that it won't be a great drug, it might be. But let's stop getting people all hyped up, especially with these bogus timelines.

This is a complete lie. I talked to them less than a month ago and they stated they were already underway with phase II clinical testing for alopecia. You're so negative that your own pessimistic attitude is obscuring your ability to look at facts.

Phatalis
07-11-2014, 01:20 PM
The machine costs so much, that if you had the money for it just to save your hair, you probably wouldn't care about being bald.

Thanks hell. youre such an awesome poster.

Phatalis
07-11-2014, 01:24 PM
The machine costs so much, that if you had the money for it just to save your hair, you probably wouldn't care about being bald.

Idk. I googled and they make some. Are these machines not the right ones? they were like 500+ pounds or something

hellouser
07-11-2014, 01:32 PM
Idk. I googled and they make some. Are these machines not the right ones? they were like 500+ pounds or something

They used hydro electrophoresis... very different from the cheap run of the mill iontophoresis device.

ShookOnes
07-11-2014, 01:41 PM
They used hydro electrophoresis... very different from the cheap run of the mill iontophoresis device.

we can't afford those to be able to use CB 03 01. I doubt Cosmo will be able to produce a product that's comparable to hydro electro in topical form, that would take so much time to go through FDA... not to mention the sure genius of converting what a lab machine does to a cream, lol. is this the reason why people using their homemade vehicles have been failing? Not trying to be too pessimistic, I just discovered this CB thread after 2 years of lurking haha..

hellouser
07-11-2014, 01:44 PM
we can't afford those to be able to use CB 03 01. I doubt Cosmo will be able to produce a product that's comparable to hydro electro in topical form, that would take so much time to go through FDA... not to mention the sure genius of converting what a lab machine does to a cream, lol. is this the reason why people using their homemade vehicles have been failing? Not trying to be too pessimistic, I just discovered this CB thread after 2 years of lurking haha..

That, or perhaps the CB everyone's been using is fake. I don't have the answers.

Phatalis
07-11-2014, 01:44 PM
Just out of raw curiosity again.. how much are those around.. a rough estimate? it'd be hilarious if somehow we did a "crowd funding" thing and got like a community machine for different areas and delivered CB ourselves lmfao.

Just joking.

Phatalis
07-11-2014, 01:45 PM
welp, i need to bridge the gap until CB works or doesnt.

Right now I'm about to try propecia.. but im so ****ing scared.

I'm looking at Hells RU guide and about to try it out.

ShookOnes
07-11-2014, 01:45 PM
would probably be a lot cheaper to 3D print the machine


welp, i need to bridge the gap until CB works or doesnt.

Right now I'm about to try propecia.. but im so ****ing scared.

I'm looking at Hells RU guide and about to try it out.

are you a diffuser? and take it 3x a week, that's what im doing

Phatalis
07-11-2014, 01:47 PM
Yeah. diffuse. but i havent had much loss yet. i had a GHO HST for hairline. and now everything else is very slowly starting to go. it JUST started. you cant tell yet but its coming.

Phatalis
07-11-2014, 01:48 PM
before HST I was a nw3 juts cause my hairline went back. i hid it well enough tho

Phatalis
07-11-2014, 01:49 PM
take RU or Prop 3x week?

sdsurfin
07-11-2014, 02:05 PM
This is a complete lie. I talked to them less than a month ago and they stated they were already underway with phase II clinical testing for alopecia. You're so negative that your own pessimistic attitude is obscuring your ability to look at facts.

Are you sure, I think thats for acne.... If not, well that's encouraging. Those must be european trials then, because as someone just posted, they are just barely filing an IND in the states in the first half of 2014 for alopecia. A lot of conflicting information. Would be great if someone could clear it all up. Last time I talked to cosmo they were filing an IND for alopecia this year. that means a lot of years to come. Even if it came five years from now that would be great, but I remain skeptical due to the lack of results from users here, and also from past results of other anti androgenic topicals. Hopefully it will be a great drug. I also highly doubt that it won't have side effects, but hopefully they won't be of the brain/testicle killing variety. I could deal with a lot of things, but not those.

ShookOnes
07-11-2014, 02:14 PM
Yeah. diffuse. but i havent had much loss yet. i had a GHO HST for hairline. and now everything else is very slowly starting to go. it JUST started. you cant tell yet but its coming.


in 2 years from a NW 0, almost perfect hairline with a slightly broader hairline/forehead than her: http://www.yeshairstyles.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/kristen-stewart-perfect-hairline-brown-mtv-movie-awards.jpg

into this: (just uploaded for ya) : http://imgur.com/GSVye7o


I grew back the entire crown with fin in 1.5 years. my temples and the front hairline took a hit but... if CB takes more than a year, you're going to suffer greatly. you'll lose all the hair on the top/temples and only the hair you got from the transplant will be left. diffusers have it worst. people like hellrouser complain a lot but the small percent of us who see a future NW7 at 17 have it worst.

I'm hoping I can get pilofocus and then CB 03 forever, but that's riding A LOT that CB will be perfect as i fantasize it will be

sdsurfin
07-11-2014, 05:16 PM
in 2 years from a NW 0, almost perfect hairline with a slightly broader hairline/forehead than her: http://www.yeshairstyles.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/kristen-stewart-perfect-hairline-brown-mtv-movie-awards.jpg

into this: (just uploaded for ya) : http://imgur.com/GSVye7o


I grew back the entire crown with fin in 1.5 years. my temples and the front hairline took a hit but... if CB takes more than a year, you're going to suffer greatly. you'll lose all the hair on the top/temples and only the hair you got from the transplant will be left. diffusers have it worst. people like hellrouser complain a lot but the small percent of us who see a future NW7 at 17 have it worst.

I'm hoping I can get pilofocus and then CB 03 forever, but that's riding A LOT that CB will be perfect as i fantasize it will be

You can't say how fast someone else's loss will occur. In a way all men are diffuse thinners, stepdad has had perfect hair (grey) his whole life but into his fifties started thinning out considerably. same for most guys ive seen who have a full head in their later age. Probably like 10% of guys don't thin out at all, and most of those are prob asians or native americans.

that's great that fin works for you, if you don't get side effects i wouldn't worry too much, you'll probably have a better alternative in the somewhat near future. anyway the only guys i've seen who look pretty bad with shaved heads are really light haired and pale guys, you're probably good even if you lose all of it. sorry you lost it young, but that also means that you'll likely have a very effective cure before you're even old at all. I have two friends that lost it all in their early twenties, two of the best guys I know and never let it slow them down. just rocked the shiny head and haven't been deprived of anything. One day baldness will be obsolete and shaving your head bald will be exotic and desired, mark my words.

ShookOnes
07-11-2014, 05:36 PM
You can't say how fast someone else's loss will occur. In a way all men are diffuse thinners, stepdad has had perfect hair (grey) his whole life but into his fifties started thinning out considerably. same for most guys ive seen who have a full head in their later age. Probably like 10% of guys don't thin out at all, and most of those are prob asians or native americans.

that's great that fin works for you, if you don't get side effects i wouldn't worry too much, you'll probably have a better alternative in the somewhat near future. anyway the only guys i've seen who look pretty bad with shaved heads are really light haired and pale guys, you're probably good even if you lose all of it. sorry you lost it young, but that also means that you'll likely have a very effective cure before you're even old at all. I have two friends that lost it all in their early twenties, two of the best guys I know and never let it slow them down. just rocked the shiny head and haven't been deprived of anything. One day baldness will be obsolete and shaving your head bald will be exotic and desired, mark my words.


diffuse thinners lose their hair at a young age with a NW6 shape. MPB is MPB but diffuse thinners by category are the most aggressive. My main point was that he should be on finasteride if he's starting to lose more hair after his transplant. He'll only look ridiculous to have hair at the hairline but completely bald everywhere else. And yeah, I've had side effects. Last 3 years I've had muddy brain fog. I can probably medidate for hours because I can stare at a white wall for hours. My mind is easily detachable. And no morning wood for the last three years with weak erections. But I still continue to take fin, or like the males in my family, I'll also go NW7 at 24.

sucks so I hope CB really is the next thing.

bradpitthair
07-11-2014, 06:02 PM
Cosmos held a conf call a few days ago discussing the results of the CB 03 01 trial. They said that it was very effective in reducing acne and noticeable side effects were nil. The most effective percentage was 1% CB-03-01 cream and this will be used in their upcoming Phase 3 Trial.

cthulhu2
07-11-2014, 08:49 PM
Did I hear someone say dermaroller??????????

I don't think we can trust black market cb though :(

Swooping
07-12-2014, 04:22 AM
Guys how many times do i need to explain this. CB-03-01 isn't going to be any better than the current options we have. Yes indeed, it isn't going to be any better than dutasteride or RU in terms of effectiveness. Furthermore the vehicle thing is broscience. But it is quite logical to assume that when the binding of CB to the androgen receptor is weaker than RU that you need more than 1% of a concentration of CB to work.

1% isn't going to cut it for prevention of AGA, if they will ever release a formulation it is going to be 5%. The CB-03-01 on the black market is legit, and the guys who do use it at 5% get good results. But forget about CB-03-01 being more effective than the 5ar2 inhibitors or anti androgens we have now. The only thing good about CB is that it is supposedly devoid of systematic side effects. But this is theoretical, and ironically when CB-03-01 get's systematic it could even pose more risks like cardiovascular effects as it is a steroidal anti androgen as cyproterone acetate and not a non-steroidal anti androgen.

But yes if it works as proposed and it has no side effects it will be a good thing for young guys and for prevention, because prevention is the best thing in AGA. Forget about CB-03-01 regrowing your hair any better than the current treatments we have now though.

Pate
07-12-2014, 05:12 AM
Guys how many times do i need to explain this. CB-03-01 isn't going to be any better than the current options we have. Yes indeed, it isn't going to be any better than dutasteride or RU in terms of effectiveness. Furthermore the vehicle thing is broscience. But it is quite logical to assume that when the binding of CB to the androgen receptor is weaker than RU that you need more than 1% of a concentration of CB to work.

1% isn't going to cut it for prevention of AGA, if they will ever release a formulation it is going to be 5%. The CB-03-01 on the black market is legit, and the guys who do use it at 5% get good results. But forget about CB-03-01 being more effective than the 5ar2 inhibitors or anti androgens we have now. The only thing good about CB is that it is supposedly devoid of systematic side effects. But this is theoretical, and ironically when CB-03-01 get's systematic it could even pose more risks like cardiovascular effects as it is a steroidal anti androgen as cyproterone acetate and not a non-steroidal anti androgen.

But yes if it works as proposed and it has no side effects it will be a good thing for young guys and for prevention, because prevention is the best thing in AGA. Forget about CB-03-01 regrowing your hair any better than the current treatments we have now though.

I mostly agree with this but with a couple of qualifiers.

1) CB should be more effective than dut because as a topical it's being applied to the follicles directly, and it will also target both DHT and T. Fin doesn't actually reduce DHT in the scalp much at all (something like 30%) and although I haven't seen any data, there's no reason to suggest dut is much better. A better comparison is with RU, which it should be roughly equivalent to in terms of efficacy, except for...

2) RU is known to be unstable and my experience is that it is unstable even in KB beyond about six weeks. Only the guys who are mixing it from the freezer on a weekly basis IMO are getting the full effect. Those guys are mostly reporting that 5% RU is stopping their loss cold. While CB is a slightly weaker anti-androgen than RU, this is offset somewhat by the fact we should theoretically be able to use it in higher amounts, because it's safer.

The big risk for CB I think is getting it through the skin, being such a large molecule. I'm not fully convinced that the guys mixing it themselves have that problem solved, but Cosmo should hopefully be able to do it, because they did a lot of skin permeability tests.

What it all boils down to is that CB should be at least as effective, and possibly slightly more effective IMO, than fin, dut and RU, while being much safer in terms of sides. There is every reason to be optimistic IMO that 5% CB in an appropriate vehicle should stop the majority of MPB in its tracks with the lowest level of sides yet seen.

Regrowth will be minor except in some cases in the crown, but for a lot of the guys at lower NWs, that is a pretty good result. And for those of us on fin or dut, it's an outstanding result.

Valeant pulling out is not great, but I was worried that when they took over Medicis, they would kill CB altogether. Instead they have pulled out of the licensing deal and Cosmo have it back under their control, and they are obviously still keen to develop it. The key risk now is finding another partner.

Swooping
07-12-2014, 07:22 AM
1. Yes you are right you can't compare a 5ar2 inhibitor with a anti-androgen. That said, as you say CB-03-01 is approximately as strong as RU, albeit a tiny little less strong from the literature we have now.

2. I don't know if I can agree with you on this one. RU has been tested in ethanol solution by kane and he said that it was stable over 6 months. Then german guys on a german hairloss forum tested it in "bifon" hairloss solution and found out the RU was stable for over 230 days in solution. Furthermore enzulatamide which is highly similar to RU58841 in structure is given in a liquid oral suspension and is also highly stable (up to 2 years i think). I use RU myself for 10 daily batches and i have my powder at room temperature 24/7. Still works perfectly. I keep my solution at room temperature too.

I totally agree with you that we need something that doesn't have any side effects, and that is where CB-03-01 might shine. Don't get me wrong, but prevention is very easy to do nowadays. If you hop on DUT + RU, you won't bald. Problem is side effects obviously. But if you can handle them you can stop AGA in it's track very easy nowadays. But its just terrible to suffer from libido issues and other side effects to safe your hair. Not fair :(.

Notbalding83
07-12-2014, 07:48 AM
Has cosmo ever once said that they actually have a working vehicle for alopecia? Thanks

Tenma
07-12-2014, 07:53 AM
CB alone has the potential to slow down the balding process for many many years. Yes, it wont regrow hair on advanced norwoods, but for the first time people all over the world will have the chance to buy without restraints an effective topical antiandrogen.

In my opinion, the real game changer for long term prevention is the potential synergistic effects of using 5ar inhibitors with T & DHT blockers. We will have the best of both worlds: drastic reduction in DHT production and powerful antagonization of the remaining DHT/T interaction with the specific hair-follicle androgen receptors

One thing is for sure if this pans out: the HT industry will suffer major losses in revenue. Well informed young people using CB + DUT will lower down the androgen stimulus so much that they will be able to keep most of their hair for decades.

ShookOnes
07-12-2014, 08:29 AM
Guys how many times do i need to explain this. CB-03-01 isn't going to be any better than the current options we have. Yes indeed, it isn't going to be any better than dutasteride or RU in terms of effectiveness. Furthermore the vehicle thing is broscience. But it is quite logical to assume that when the binding of CB to the androgen receptor is weaker than RU that you need more than 1% of a concentration of CB to work.

1% isn't going to cut it for prevention of AGA, if they will ever release a formulation it is going to be 5%. The CB-03-01 on the black market is legit, and the guys who do use it at 5% get good results. But forget about CB-03-01 being more effective than the 5ar2 inhibitors or anti androgens we have now. The only thing good about CB is that it is supposedly devoid of systematic side effects. But this is theoretical, and ironically when CB-03-01 get's systematic it could even pose more risks like cardiovascular effects as it is a steroidal anti androgen as cyproterone acetate and not a non-steroidal anti androgen.

But yes if it works as proposed and it has no side effects it will be a good thing for young guys and for prevention, because prevention is the best thing in AGA. Forget about CB-03-01 regrowing your hair any better than the current treatments we have now though.

if it gets released for aa it would be safe because FDA phases. Like I have mentioned, it will probably regrow in the same people who would have regrown from fin.

burtandernie
07-12-2014, 09:50 AM
A lot of what your saying about CB though is pure speculation and guesswork. You compare it to RU but how can you even do that when so little is really known about either one. Just wait a few years so we can see the actual results. I dont think we know the strength of CB compared to RU yet and the side effects are a huge part of what CB will bring to the table. A lot of guys dont want to trade health for hair and your putting your health on the roulette table long term by drastically lowering DHT.

Tenma
07-12-2014, 10:24 AM
A lot of guys dont want to trade health for hair and your putting your health on the roulette table long term by drastically lowering DHT.

Dut and Fin are safe for most men. The 10 year fin study confirms that.

Also Glaxo is completing an aditional safety trial to pursue Avodart for hair loss.

ShookOnes
07-12-2014, 03:46 PM
Dut and Fin are safe for most men. The 10 year fin study confirms that.

Also Glaxo is completing an aditional safety trial to pursue Avodart for hair loss.

ya. and what's better than most..? all. check over bodybuilding/steroid forums and you'll see that every single gym rat that throws weight has mentioned finasteride slowing down muscle gains. topical > oral, i'm sick of brain fog and weak erections bruh

kobefan234
07-12-2014, 07:11 PM
fin negatively affected my short term memory I have noticed. long term memory is fine.

sdsurfin
07-13-2014, 12:01 AM
ya. and what's better than most..? all. check over bodybuilding/steroid forums and you'll see that every single gym rat that throws weight has mentioned finasteride slowing down muscle gains. topical > oral, i'm sick of brain fog and weak erections bruh

People throw around side effects like brain fog and memory loss and lack of libido on here like it's nothing. ITS YOUR ****ING BRAIN MAN. Would you rather have hair than have a working brain? Makes no sense whatsoever.

A study last year in Journal of Sexual Medicine noted "changes related to the urogenital system in terms of semen quality and decreased ejaculate volume, reduction in penis size, penile curvature or reduced sensation, fewer spontaneous erections, decreased testicular size, testicular pain, and prostatitis." Many subjects also noted a "disconnection between the mental and physical aspects of sexual function," and changes in mental abilities, sleeping patterns, and/or depressive symptoms.

I know this isn't all bullshit because I experienced it first hand, I really wanted propecia to work for me, but even at low doses it gave me serious non-psychosomatic sides like intense testicle pain and headaches and brain fog. In my opinion there's no way anyone is taking this drug without doing damage, the ones that claim not to have sides are probably just being ****ed in incrementally small ways that they won't notice until later. I think the ten year safety data is BS, that was mainly on much older men who are already crapped out sexually and mentally, and 10 years may not be enough to see the real damage on less sensitive people. I have 4 friends who have tried propecia and ALL of them got sides to some degree.

seriously, hair is not that important, to the young guys out there, stop playing with your two most important organs, your brain and your balls. I'm pretty sure there will be a better maintenance drug out in the next 8 yrs or so, just get on minoxidil or if you really have to then maybe topical propecia, but seriously, this stuff is poison. you can't block a major enzyme that maintains your brain and body without doing damage, it's not possible.

Pate
07-13-2014, 05:18 AM
1. Yes you are right you can't compare a 5ar2 inhibitor with a anti-androgen. That said, as you say CB-03-01 is approximately as strong as RU, albeit a tiny little less strong from the literature we have now.

2. I don't know if I can agree with you on this one. RU has been tested in ethanol solution by kane and he said that it was stable over 6 months. Then german guys on a german hairloss forum tested it in "bifon" hairloss solution and found out the RU was stable for over 230 days in solution. Furthermore enzulatamide which is highly similar to RU58841 in structure is given in a liquid oral suspension and is also highly stable (up to 2 years i think). I use RU myself for 10 daily batches and i have my powder at room temperature 24/7. Still works perfectly. I keep my solution at room temperature too.

I totally agree with you that we need something that doesn't have any side effects, and that is where CB-03-01 might shine. Don't get me wrong, but prevention is very easy to do nowadays. If you hop on DUT + RU, you won't bald. Problem is side effects obviously. But if you can handle them you can stop AGA in it's track very easy nowadays. But its just terrible to suffer from libido issues and other side effects to safe your hair. Not fair :(.

Well I can only go on what I've read and my own personal experience. From my reading it seems to be well-known in the literature that RU is unstable in ethanol. In fact anecdotally it seems to be one of the major reasons it wasn't pursued.

My own experience seems to back this up but it's important to say that I have only tested this with mpbtreatments pre-mixed RU in KB, which I know some guys here are suspicious of (but it's only suspicion as nobody has ever tested it, to my knowledge).

What I found was that after I placed an order it took about 3 weeks to arrive. When I started using it, I had an instant (within 3 days) massive drop in sebum production on my scalp. I have an extremely oily scalp in the thinning area, and almost no sebum on the non-thinning area, which is obviously due to the effect of the androgens. The RU stopped it cold so that I couldn't notice any difference between the thinning and non-thinning areas. But after about 4 weeks, the oil slowly started coming back, and by the end of the 8 week supply, my scalp was almost back to its pre-RU level of oiliness. Then a new bottle would arrive it the oil would disappear again within a couple of days.

I am interpreting this as the RU losing effectiveness as it starts to degrade. But if other people are getting different results I am happy to listen, and I freely admit that mpbtreatments RU is not the final word in RU solutions. In your case, I think you have shown the freezing is not probably not really necessary, as long as you are mixing on a weekly basis.

I have always been interested in mixing it myself, but I'm a bit hesitant to important quantities of white powder from China through Australian customs, who are notoriously quick to confiscate. I actually sought out some labs here to do purity tests - I was going to send them some Kane powder and then some solutions at different ages to test how the concentration declines over time. But eventually I went off RU anyway because I wasn't getting any significant regrowth, so I never did it.

So for the moment I'm sticking with fin, and hoping for CB to be available in a few years. Because I have definitely noticed minor sides from fin and I don't like staying on a systemic anti-androgen.

Anyway, just my story to add to the mix.

rdawg
07-13-2014, 01:11 PM
Hey guys, is there anywhere that ships to canada that I can buy this stuff from? Does Kane ship to Canada?

also is it worth buying right now or would you recommend waiting a bit? I was gonna buy it in sept when i get back from vacay in europe.

ShookOnes
07-13-2014, 01:16 PM
Hey guys, is there anywhere that ships to canada that I can buy this stuff from? Does Kane ship to Canada?

also is it worth buying right now or would you recommend waiting a bit? I was gonna buy it in sept when i get back from vacay in europe.


depends if you want to wait at least a year for a product that has a chance of not working at all unless cosmo's got their hands on a vehicle that they're secretive with

MancBoy
07-14-2014, 04:17 AM
http://www.cosmopharmaceuticals.com/~/media/Files/C/Cosmo-Pharmaceuticals/ir/presentations/2014/20140708Zurichpresentationfinal.pdf

The above link to an investor report (pg 16) seems to show alopecia in phase 2 trials!! Can someone clarify I think someone has mentioned this maybe Europe trials. However I would see this as accurate as being a listed company they are not allowed to lie to the market.

The part that worries me is the statement of possible disposal of a the derma business (incl CB 03 01) to fund the colon business. I know they state colon as a great growth potential but if you were sat on a cure for hair loss which would be worth billions and you'd have complete control of the market you wouldn't sell the product to fund a more competitive business where you aren't the market leader?

Just to end positive this quote from the annual results sounds good
"CB-03-01’s mechanism of action is based on the competitive activity between CB-03-01 and testosterone respectively dihydrotestosterone (DHT) for androgen receptors in the skin. CB-03-01 has a substantially higher cell-binding power than either testosterone or DHT, and will block the androgen receptor thus inhibiting
testosterone/DHT’s effects on the cell. CB-03-01 is devoid of systemic antiandrogenic activity, and has a moderate anti-inflammatory effect. In preclinical studies, CB-03-01 was shown to be rapidly metabolized by the skin to the
parent compound cortexolone, which is a physiological steroid lacking
antiandrogen activity and is safe. CB-03-01 has also been shown to have
good penetration through the skin, making it the first steroidal antiandrogen suitable for topical application."

Sorry I like being an optimist!!

sascha
07-14-2014, 04:31 AM
http://www.cosmopharmaceuticals.com/~/media/Files/C/Cosmo-Pharmaceuticals/ir/presentations/2014/20140708Zurichpresentationfinal.pdf

The above link to an investor report (pg 16) seems to show alopecia in phase 2 trials!! Can someone clarify I think someone has mentioned this maybe Europe trials. However I would see this as accurate as being a listed company they are not allowed to lie to the market.

The part that worries me is the statement of possible disposal of a the derma business (incl CB 03 01) to fund the colon business. I know they state colon as a great growth potential but if you were sat on a cure for hair loss which would be worth billions and you'd have complete control of the market you wouldn't sell the product to fund a more competitive business where you aren't the market leader?

Just to end positive this quote from the annual results sounds good
"CB-03-01s mechanism of action is based on the competitive activity between CB-03-01 and testosterone respectively dihydrotestosterone (DHT) for androgen receptors in the skin. CB-03-01 has a substantially higher cell-binding power than either testosterone or DHT, and will block the androgen receptor thus inhibiting
testosterone/DHTs effects on the cell. CB-03-01 is devoid of systemic antiandrogenic activity, and has a moderate anti-inflammatory effect. In preclinical studies, CB-03-01 was shown to be rapidly metabolized by the skin to the
parent compound cortexolone, which is a physiological steroid lacking
antiandrogen activity and is safe. CB-03-01 has also been shown to have
good penetration through the skin, making it the first steroidal antiandrogen suitable for topical application."

Sorry I like being an optimist!!

Yes its no secret. You can ask them and they will tell you that they are in phase 2. filling IND does not take that long and phase 2 trials can take as less as 18 month. Their phase 2 for acne was around 21 month, so yes why not being optimistic, its always better :)

ShookOnes
07-14-2014, 04:42 AM
http://www.cosmopharmaceuticals.com/~/media/Files/C/Cosmo-Pharmaceuticals/ir/presentations/2014/20140708Zurichpresentationfinal.pdf

The above link to an investor report (pg 16) seems to show alopecia in phase 2 trials!! Can someone clarify I think someone has mentioned this maybe Europe trials. However I would see this as accurate as being a listed company they are not allowed to lie to the market.

The part that worries me is the statement of possible disposal of a the derma business (incl CB 03 01) to fund the colon business. I know they state colon as a great growth potential but if you were sat on a cure for hair loss which would be worth billions and you'd have complete control of the market you wouldn't sell the product to fund a more competitive business where you aren't the market leader?

Just to end positive this quote from the annual results sounds good
"CB-03-01s mechanism of action is based on the competitive activity between CB-03-01 and testosterone respectively dihydrotestosterone (DHT) for androgen receptors in the skin. CB-03-01 has a substantially higher cell-binding power than either testosterone or DHT, and will block the androgen receptor thus inhibiting
testosterone/DHTs effects on the cell. CB-03-01 is devoid of systemic antiandrogenic activity, and has a moderate anti-inflammatory effect. In preclinical studies, CB-03-01 was shown to be rapidly metabolized by the skin to the
parent compound cortexolone, which is a physiological steroid lacking
antiandrogen activity and is safe. CB-03-01 has also been shown to have
good penetration through the skin, making it the first steroidal antiandrogen suitable for topical application."

Sorry I like being an optimist!!

That last sentence..good penetration thru skin? A lot of forum members fears were that it wouldn't penetrate bc of their failed vehicle/effective on skin. This could be great news!

MancBoy
07-14-2014, 04:45 AM
So how do I get myself in the trial!! haha so from phase two completing how long does phase three take??

I live in the UK so all these phases being USA does this actually have any relevance for me??

sascha
07-14-2014, 04:57 AM
Well I am from Italy actually and dont know that much either, but a quick search on the Internet said IND filling does not take long if the evidence is clear that it works...after phase 2 the company meets with the FDA and decide to continue or not. phase 3 can take up to a year/year and a half, but can also just be 6 month. Unlike many other members I believe that the FDA does not hold anything back that works. The FDA may be a bit more conservative than the EU or UK version, but thats it. I dont think that you can participate, because the recrution-phase is over if they are already in the trial.

burtandernie
07-14-2014, 10:21 AM
Wait wait people on this forum arent always right about their random guesses and predictions? Now you have me worrying they might sell it off to fund the colon stuff. That would be bad if cb 03 01 goes away so does the chances of ever getting a safe topical and there is not much if anything in the near future to look forward to for prevention besides this
It sounds like its a couple years away or so which is odd because I see people saying its 6 years away at least which I guess proves few people on forums really know what they are even talking about

FearTheLoss
07-14-2014, 10:56 AM
They are talking about a spin-off or getting private placement for the derma portion of their company..not terminating it. Those are two very different things. They clearly aren't going to terminate a portion of their company that is a "rich pipeline" with "very good results".

ShookOnes
07-14-2014, 11:53 AM
Wait wait people on this forum arent always right about their random guesses and predictions? Now you have me worrying they might sell it off to fund the colon stuff. That would be bad if cb 03 01 goes away so does the chances of ever getting a safe topical and there is not much if anything in the near future to look forward to for prevention besides this
It sounds like its a couple years away or so which is odd because I see people saying its 6 years away at least which I guess proves few people on forums really know what they are even talking about


would be 6 years if it wasn't already in phase 2

MancBoy
07-14-2014, 12:02 PM
Yeah I should of been clearer a spin off isn't termination but still they'd be handing profits to someone else in order to raise cash for their other business. Therefore they value colon as a more valuable business (or less risk). Also if you spin off it could take the company away from a strong cash rich business to a PE firm that maybe less willing to put in any extra cash. But that sounds negative so to be positive it could go somewhere that would really push it!! So if they are in phase two how long do we think until market??

But my point about spin off is if you knew you had a winning lottery ticket, why would you share the winnings??

rdawg
07-14-2014, 12:12 PM
sounds like this stuff is getting fast-tracked due to high safety.

Will be interested to see the results however, and we still dont know the true vehicle! Very happy we at least have a new alternative solution soon to be approved.

Xoxo
07-14-2014, 12:21 PM
CB can already be bought, but we do not know which vehicle really works.
If we can find out, which vehicle was used in the trials, we could mix it ourselves and would not need to wait for phase 2 trials, FDA approval, market release, etc.
Or we must find out ourselves, which vehicle works very well.
But how could any of that be achieved?

ShookOnes
07-14-2014, 12:56 PM
CB can already be bought, but we do not know which vehicle really works.
If we can find out, which vehicle was used in the trials, we could mix it ourselves and would not need to wait for phase 2 trials, FDA approval, market release, etc.
Or we must find out ourselves, which vehicle works very well.
But how could any of that be achieved?


it can't. so wait.

Borealis
07-14-2014, 02:09 PM
Must not get excited about this! How are the acne trials getting on? Wasn't there potential for a product on the market (for acne) by the end of the year? I'm aware it's a cream based product that isn't appropriate for hairloss.

burtandernie
07-14-2014, 02:18 PM
What really is the use if the acne version did come out? I mean what good is that really almost nothing about it is much relevant to MPB

rdawg
07-14-2014, 03:00 PM
What really is the use if the acne version did come out? I mean what good is that really almost nothing about it is much relevant to MPB

Ease of access, could modify it slightly to make it able to penetrate the skin. Could also end up being cheaper etc.

rdawg
07-14-2014, 03:01 PM
Must not get excited about this! How are the acne trials getting on? Wasn't there potential for a product on the market (for acne) by the end of the year? I'm aware it's a cream based product that isn't appropriate for hairloss.

1 more year or so until the acne trials are done, phase III is about to begin i'd assume.

JZA70
07-14-2014, 03:40 PM
Ease of access, could modify it slightly to make it able to penetrate the skin. Could also end up being cheaper etc.

It's going to have a lot of ingredients in it that will make it useless as a topical.

Sogeking
07-14-2014, 04:05 PM
Someone posted before, they plan to end phase 2 trials by the end of the next year. After that we just have to wait to see when will phase 3 start. If they enter phase 3 it becomes a lot more likely they will push it to market.

FearTheLoss
07-14-2014, 07:38 PM
Yeah I should of been clearer a spin off isn't termination but still they'd be handing profits to someone else in order to raise cash for their other business. Therefore they value colon as a more valuable business (or less risk). Also if you spin off it could take the company away from a strong cash rich business to a PE firm that maybe less willing to put in any extra cash. But that sounds negative so to be positive it could go somewhere that would really push it!! So if they are in phase two how long do we think until market??

But my point about spin off is if you knew you had a winning lottery ticket, why would you share the winnings??


by the looks of things, also going off the email I received from them about a month ago, they are doing an 18 month phase II trial that is 6 months underway. In this case, if everything goes as planned, there's a year left of phase II and then we will see results/know vehicle I believe. Furthermore, this suggests that maximum, we would have 3 years until CB is publicly released. (12 more months phase II, 6 months give or take to get phase III ready, 12 months phase III, 6 more months until release, being generous)

Pate
07-16-2014, 01:07 AM
by the looks of things, also going off the email I received from them about a month ago, they are doing an 18 month phase II trial that is 6 months underway. In this case, if everything goes as planned, there's a year left of phase II and then we will see results/know vehicle I believe. Furthermore, this suggests that maximum, we would have 3 years until CB is publicly released. (12 more months phase II, 6 months give or take to get phase III ready, 12 months phase III, 6 more months until release, being generous)

What did the e-mail from them say?

I think the presentation linked to in a previous post is saying that they are currently doing pre-trial preparations for the Phase II alopecia (enrolling study participants, finalising the vehicle etc). That's why it's about a third of the way through the Phase II column. I have not seen anything from Cosmo to suggest they have actually started giving patients the drug yet - has anybody else?

The spin-off is actually a good thing because it means they can launch a fresh round of funding and actually get the money to run Phase III for acne and Phase II for alopecia (as well as their new drug for genital warts, which maybe we will all need by that time after we start getting laid all the time with our new heads of hair :D )

It's only a partial spin-off so Cosmo will still have majority ownership of it. It shows a real commitment by Cosmo to CB which is great. They are about the only company out there with both the money and the desire to follow their new drug through.

doke
07-16-2014, 02:12 AM
To be honest cb may or maynot be better than ru and now you can even get premade at ru solutions and anagen, and the powder to make your own at this time its better than anything.

LMS
07-16-2014, 03:20 AM
To be honest cb may or maynot be better than ru and now you can even get premade at ru solutions and anagen, and the powder to make your own at this time its better than anything.

Agreed. Its saving grace is of course is non systematic activity. I get sides on RU.

MancBoy
07-16-2014, 05:44 AM
The spin-off is actually a good thing because it means they can launch a fresh round of funding and actually get the money to run Phase III for acne and Phase II for alopecia (as well as their new drug for genital warts, which maybe we will all need by that time after we start getting laid all the time with our new heads of hair :D )

It's only a partial spin-off so Cosmo will still have majority ownership of it. It shows a real commitment by Cosmo to CB which is great. They are about the only company out there with both the money and the desire to follow their new drug through.

Yeah I'm not saying it's fully negative I just mean that new shareholders tend to want one thing - PROFIT. So if it's PE (who typically are the ones who are transacted in private placements) then if results aren't awesome then they can lose patients very quickly.

But hopefully they go the route of IPO and I'll be buying in...try and make some money back from however expensive this product may be!! ha

FearTheLoss
07-16-2014, 10:02 AM
What did the e-mail from them say?

I think the presentation linked to in a previous post is saying that they are currently doing pre-trial preparations for the Phase II alopecia (enrolling study participants, finalising the vehicle etc). That's why it's about a third of the way through the Phase II column. I have not seen anything from Cosmo to suggest they have actually started giving patients the drug yet - has anybody else?

The spin-off is actually a good thing because it means they can launch a fresh round of funding and actually get the money to run Phase III for acne and Phase II for alopecia (as well as their new drug for genital warts, which maybe we will all need by that time after we start getting laid all the time with our new heads of hair :D )

It's only a partial spin-off so Cosmo will still have majority ownership of it. It shows a real commitment by Cosmo to CB which is great. They are about the only company out there with both the money and the desire to follow their new drug through.


I posted it somewhere in this thread, but I asked them how it was coming along and they said they were well underway with phase II trials.

Doke: lol, we don't have a single study to suggest any positive or negative affects of RU on hairless and other parts of the body, making a claim like this is a little outrageous.

burtandernie
07-16-2014, 04:05 PM
There is a lot riding on this thats for sure. If this doesnt happen finasteride will be the treatment of choice for a long time to come.

ShookOnes
07-17-2014, 11:03 PM
There is a lot riding on this thats for sure. If this doesnt happen finasteride will be the treatment of choice for a long time to come.


yeah if a multi-billion dollar company with immense FDA experience and power can't produce something better than finasteride, little to no chance any other company can...

burtandernie
07-18-2014, 03:30 PM
I hope it does because CB can scratch a lot of itches. Women should be able to use it, guys too young for propecia, and it could be used in combination with propecia. It would have a lot of benefits if it pans out. It might also be something to stop or prevent unwanted body hair or facial hair which dosages for MPB might be useful for. I am curious to see if that works.

ShookOnes
07-18-2014, 07:33 PM
just curious, if CB0301 proves to be as effective as fin (ofc without the sides), how many of you fellas are planning on getting a HT?

Pate
07-19-2014, 08:44 AM
just curious, if CB0301 proves to be as effective as fin (ofc without the sides), how many of you fellas are planning on getting a HT?

Not me, I have too much loss already for it to look natural. For me it's all about keeping the damn follicles alive (I'm only slick bald at the temples, NW3 pattern, but I'm miniaturised in a NW5 pattern) until the cellular treatments come out. If they never come out, well, guess I'll stay bald. I'd rather that than the obvious, thin hair look that comes with a HT that doesn't have enough hair to go around.

Fin has stopped my loss I estimate by about 95%, I'm hoping CB will push it up to 99% or more. Plus get rid of the minor fin sides I get.

ShookOnes
07-21-2014, 04:53 PM
Not me, I have too much loss already for it to look natural. For me it's all about keeping the damn follicles alive (I'm only slick bald at the temples, NW3 pattern, but I'm miniaturised in a NW5 pattern) until the cellular treatments come out. If they never come out, well, guess I'll stay bald. I'd rather that than the obvious, thin hair look that comes with a HT that doesn't have enough hair to go around.

Fin has stopped my loss I estimate by about 95%, I'm hoping CB will push it up to 99% or more. Plus get rid of the minor fin sides I get.



damn, not even pilofocus? On that thread Arista's been heavily hinting strong renegeration, don't lose hope yet!

FearTheLoss
07-22-2014, 11:16 AM
Technically we should be able to use this within the next 16 months. The acne version will be released and phase 2 of alopecia should be finished so we will know the vehicle.

Arashi
07-22-2014, 11:25 AM
Technically we should be able to use this within the next 16 months. The acne version will be released and phase 2 of alopecia should be finished so we will know the vehicle.

Why will we know the vehicle after phase II ? I thought they didnt have to publish that until market release ?

hellouser
07-22-2014, 11:58 AM
Why will we know the vehicle after phase II ? I thought they didnt have to publish that until market release ?

Hopefully it gets leaked.

Paul73
07-22-2014, 01:02 PM
Hellouser, please man could you let us know if you are still using CB-01-03 and if you are seeing results? If YES, what vehicle and which percentage are you using?

I tried to find some reports from you about it but didn't see recent updates.

I'd appreciate your feedback. Thanks!

hellouser
07-22-2014, 03:05 PM
Hellouser, please man could you let us know if you are still using CB-01-03 and if you are seeing results? If YES, what vehicle and which percentage are you using?

I tried to find some reports from you about it but didn't see recent updates.

I'd appreciate your feedback. Thanks!

I'm not using it. I sorta threw in the towel. Plus all the results I've ever seen of CB are dubious.

Paul73
07-22-2014, 03:18 PM
I'm not using it. I sorta threw in the towel. Plus all the results I've ever seen of CB are dubious.

Thanks! Do you believe that you did not see solid results on it because of the vehicle you were using? Or do you think that CB is not as effective as we imagine?

hellouser
07-22-2014, 06:43 PM
Thanks! Do you believe that you did not see solid results on it because of the vehicle you were using? Or do you think that CB is not as effective as we imagine?

Nobody has any method of verifying the results or lack thereof. Everything everyone has done so far has basically been just a shot in the dark. I'm not even fully convinced that the CB people are buying either from Iron Dragon, Kane or elsewhere is 100% real, I have my doubts.

WashedOut
07-22-2014, 08:37 PM
If CB does come out then as far as preventative cures go isn't that pretty much ideal? I guess they could come out with some kind of one time treatment that you get and then you never lose hair.

But, isn't CB what people have been dreaming about for years? Something you put on your head and you never have to lose your hair. Obviously the final challenge after that is regrowth.

JZA70
07-22-2014, 10:25 PM
I have an eerie feeling that CB has been way overhyped like everything else.

Paul73
07-23-2014, 12:47 PM
Nobody has any method of verifying the results or lack thereof. Everything everyone has done so far has basically been just a shot in the dark. I'm not even fully convinced that the CB people are buying either from Iron Dragon, Kane or elsewhere is 100% real, I have my doubts.

It makes sense, Hellouser. Thanks for answering. It seems that we will have to wait the acne version come to the market and make our own hair loss version using this product.
Just like some people do with azelaic acid gel and cream for acne. They buy it and apply to their heads.

Paul73
07-23-2014, 12:49 PM
I have an eerie feeling that CB has been way overhyped like everything else.

The great benefit of CB is that it will be side effect free. So from what i have read, it will work similar or better than RU, but without side effects. That's a good reason for the hype.

ShookOnes
07-23-2014, 01:23 PM
I have an eerie feeling that CB has been way overhyped like everything else.

how is it overhyped? It was made to be superior by cosmo. we're just waiting and discussing it.

burtandernie
07-23-2014, 05:00 PM
Nothing is for certain until its finished and being used. Hopefully they see this through all the way to the finish line. This might be able to prevent mature hairlines and with few sides so you just use it for the fun of it in case you might lose hair and twice as strong as propecia? If it works out its near a cure for people looking to just prevent MPB. All the hype of course is just theoretical. We need to see how it actually works in large trials

WashedOut
07-23-2014, 11:00 PM
RU and Propecia have proven preventing loss is possible. CB is basically just the first commercially available topical that we can use without sides. It should work considering it's not doing anything new it's just a question of how well and without adverse effects.

Seems like it's not hitting any roadblocks in trials. All the other treatments seemed to draw out and delay their trials while CB is surprisingly going quickly.

burtandernie
07-24-2014, 02:49 PM
Yeah Im glad and hope we see it. I think a lot of guys would love a preventative treatment that is safer. It would really be good if it could be over the counter next to rogain that would really increase the sales and help drive down the cost.

TravisB
07-24-2014, 03:15 PM
RU and Propecia have proven preventing loss is possible. CB is basically just the first commercially available topical that we can use without sides. It should work considering it's not doing anything new it's just a question of how well and without adverse effects.

Seems like it's not hitting any roadblocks in trials. All the other treatments seemed to draw out and delay their trials while CB is surprisingly going quickly.

Still I don't think we'll see MPB version sooner than in 2018

And we can't be sure if we'll ever see it, because there is no guarantee that they will find the right vehicle for it.

Remember that they used iontophoresis in their Proof Of Concept study back in 2010, and that gave GREAT results - it looks like it's isn't good only for maintenance, but also for regrowth and hair thickening

Here is link to the study results - http://www.cosmopharmaceuticals.com/news/press/pr2010/2010-10-06.aspx

http://www.cosmopharmaceuticals.com/~/media/Images/C/Cosmo-Pharmaceuticals/Images/images/T20101006.jpg

They tested it on 40 men

If they want to release it to the market, then it will have to be in some cream or lotion form

So we can't be sure if they will find the right vehicle, and if this vehicle will work as good as iontophoresis

Acne version will be released sooner, but it will most likely not work for MPB

sdsurfin
07-25-2014, 12:30 AM
how is it overhyped? It was made to be superior by cosmo. we're just waiting and discussing it.

Might be a cool drug, but could def be overhyped.

For one, EVERYTHING has sides. No such thing as a drug that doesn't affect the body in multiple ways. Guaranteed some people will get side effects. I won't care as long as it doesn't destroy my sex organs or my brain like propecia does.

Secondly, everyone is basing this "twice as strong as propecia" stuff on ONE trial that used iontophoresis, and only measured a small subset of men during a small amount of time. Propecia is proven to work and has been tried and true, and even still it doesn't do the trick for everyone. I'm keeping my fingers crossed, but it's usually good to keep expectations low when it comes to drugs. Replicel might still prove to be a good maintenance drug too, but they are both up in the air, and the real cure will come via stem cell regeneration, but who knows when. Propecia really ****ed us all, these things would have been brought to market earlier if it weren't for its effectiveness.

burtandernie
07-25-2014, 11:24 AM
Yeah I agree until its all said and done no one really knows anything for sure. I think it has a lot of potential from what we have heard so far and its the nearest thing to market really in the next couple years. Minus CB I dont know what else is even coming in the next 10 years

WashedOut
07-28-2014, 01:51 PM
Might be a cool drug, but could def be overhyped.

For one, EVERYTHING has sides. No such thing as a drug that doesn't affect the body in multiple ways. Guaranteed some people will get side effects. I won't care as long as it doesn't destroy my sex organs or my brain like propecia does.

Secondly, everyone is basing this "twice as strong as propecia" stuff on ONE trial that used iontophoresis, and only measured a small subset of men during a small amount of time. Propecia is proven to work and has been tried and true, and even still it doesn't do the trick for everyone. I'm keeping my fingers crossed, but it's usually good to keep expectations low when it comes to drugs. Replicel might still prove to be a good maintenance drug too, but they are both up in the air, and the real cure will come via stem cell regeneration, but who knows when. Propecia really ****ed us all, these things would have been brought to market earlier if it weren't for its effectiveness.

Everything has sides but maybe there's less risk, maybe the sides are less dangerous. Hell if it's even just as effective as propecia that's not bad. It's not going to be some magic potion but it could be a very good option when we basically have no choice but to take finasteride.

Pentarou
07-28-2014, 03:42 PM
I genuinely despair that people seem to think that a topical alternative to finasteride, purchasable from pharmacies rather than the black market, wouldn't be an incredible thing (if it passes trials, of course)

BDDFreak
07-28-2014, 03:53 PM
I think cosmo is giving an update on the 30th of this month, so in 2 days.

NeedHairASAP
07-28-2014, 07:22 PM
why has nobody bought an iso machine and CB and tried it?

http://www.iontocentre.com/iontophoresis/Iontophoresis-Machines.html

stan
07-29-2014, 09:41 AM
why has nobody bought an iso machine and CB and tried it?

http://www.iontocentre.com/iontophoresis/Iontophoresis-Machines.html
perhaps for reason similar to yours

efedrez
07-29-2014, 11:48 AM
why has nobody bought an iso machine and CB and tried it?

http://www.iontocentre.com/iontophoresis/Iontophoresis-Machines.html

I have been wondering the same thing for a while, I wouldn't mind to use a machine once a week to apply CB if I can get the same results as I was getting with fin without risking my health.

If we could get our hand on a detailed procedure on how to do it we could even consider a community trial and see how that goes

lifelonglearning
07-29-2014, 11:50 AM
I think the problem is most of them you can buy are like this and the patch wont work on your scalp

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMVAScMhUkU#t=47

I think you would need something like this one. But even then it may not work because long hair would prevent the current from going through your scalp

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udhUMKx-OMs

burtandernie
07-29-2014, 04:15 PM
I wonder if CB will finally be able to stop and prevent mature hairlines that seem to be beyond the ability of current treatments

lifelonglearning
07-30-2014, 10:41 AM
From the half year report

Work on Proof of Concept trial for CB-03-01 in alopecia continues. It is target to be completed in 2015

Thinning@30
07-30-2014, 11:07 AM
Work on Proof of Concept trial for CB-03-01 in alopecia continues. It is target to be completed in 2015

I'm confused. I thought proof of concept was something that happened prior to Phase I. On Cosmo's website, there is a bar chart showing the alopecia formulation of CB 03 01 as being in the middle of Phase II, with the abbreviation "POC" next to it. I thought the drug approval pipeline went something like this:

POC/preclinical -> Phase I (safety) -> Phase IIa (safety & efficacy) -> Phase IIb (dose ranging) -> Phase III (large scale safety) -> approval.

Can anyone clarify the approval process for me?

efedrez
07-30-2014, 01:21 PM
I'm confused. I thought proof of concept was something that happened prior to Phase I. On Cosmo's website, there is a bar chart showing the alopecia formulation of CB 03 01 as being in the middle of Phase II, with the abbreviation "POC" next to it. I thought the drug approval pipeline went something like this:

POC/preclinical -> Phase I (safety) -> Phase IIa (safety & efficacy) -> Phase IIb (dose ranging) -> Phase III (large scale safety) -> approval.

Can anyone clarify the approval process for me?

I'm also confused, In Cosmos reports submitted today (http://www.cosmopharma.com/~/media/Files/C/Cosmo-Pharmaceuticals/ir/presentations/2014/140730_First_Half_2014.pdf) it appear that they are conducting the POC for alopecia which will be completed by 2015 and it looks like this is also the end of phase 2 (120 patients against minoxidil and placebo)

If this is correct maybe we are looking at a potential phase 3 by 2016 and something that we can use by 2017.

Something is sure, Cosmo is making progress with CB (both acne and alopecia) and will try to get return over their investment as soon as possible, so the future might give us a good alternative to fin before someone else comes up with a more definitive cure

joel203
07-30-2014, 05:45 PM
Anyone have any idea roughly when this will come out?

burtandernie
07-31-2014, 04:56 PM
Anyone have any idea roughly when this will come out?

Yeah it seems no one really knows for sure except for some vague guesswork. So maybe 2017? I might need to give propecia a try soon to keep my hair until then so that would only be about 3 years of having to be on propecia. I guess you can always hope its sooner than 2017 but I have my doubts that if anything it will take longer

joel203
07-31-2014, 05:03 PM
Yeah it seems no one really knows for sure except for some vague guesswork. So maybe 2017? I might need to give propecia a try soon to keep my hair until then so that would only be about 3 years of having to be on propecia. I guess you can always hope its sooner than 2017 but I have my doubts that if anything it will take longer

I hope it comes out soon and is effective! I am a NW2 at the moment, my hairs quite thick atm (maybe thinning slightly at the crown but nothing noticeable) but hairlines receeded a bit noticeably, although it can be covered up. I really hope this comes out soon and is effective for many years so I can maintain- I got on finasteride last month to hopefully maintain for the next few years if possible (only 23 atm)

Pate
08-03-2014, 02:14 AM
I'm also confused, In Cosmos reports submitted today (http://www.cosmopharma.com/~/media/Files/C/Cosmo-Pharmaceuticals/ir/presentations/2014/140730_First_Half_2014.pdf) it appear that they are conducting the POC for alopecia which will be completed by 2015 and it looks like this is also the end of phase 2 (120 patients against minoxidil and placebo)

If this is correct maybe we are looking at a potential phase 3 by 2016 and something that we can use by 2017.

Something is sure, Cosmo is making progress with CB (both acne and alopecia) and will try to get return over their investment as soon as possible, so the future might give us a good alternative to fin before someone else comes up with a more definitive cure

The POC will be a combined Phase I/IIa trial. After that they still need to do a Phase IIb trial. I assume that is why in the Pipeline Update chart in the presentation, the line for CB alopecia only goes halfway through Phase II, while the acne line goes to the end of Phase II. Acne will be ready for Phase III but alopecia will need a IIb trial first.

The weird thing is that IIa is usually the dose-ranging study, but they seem to already decided on the dose to use (5% anhydrous), so they seem to have done their dose-ranging in pre-clinicial. So I don't know what they will do with their Phase IIb trial.

TwoInchCircle
08-03-2014, 11:39 AM
FROM COSMO:
Acne: Phase III to target to be completed H2 2016
Alopecia: POC targeted to be competed end 2015

I'm confused by the phrasing in the acne section: "Phase III to target to be completed H2 2016."

Does it mean that their target is to be done Phase III by H2 2016 or are they insinuating that Phase Three + commercialization is targeted by second half 2016?

deuce
08-03-2014, 01:05 PM
Bottom Line is CB for Hair will be out in 2018 or later and most of us will be bald by then.

joely
08-03-2014, 01:18 PM
Desmond seems to think when the Acne version is out he will be able to come up with a vehicle for hair! I hope it's soon just quit propecia after three years because of sides! Needs something soon I don't think my array of natural supplements and I grow are gonna hold me

burtandernie
08-03-2014, 02:41 PM
How do you buy the acne solution and get just the CB and then enough of it to make the MPB version? It sounds hard to do that if its even possible. I dont think anyone would use propecia if they had a choice of something safer everyone uses it because its the only good option. I thought bryan one time said that merk asked if men wanted topical or oral and everyone picked oral so there it is. Now everyone complains about it being oral because of sides. I guess people dont know what they want

burtandernie
08-03-2014, 03:34 PM
Little off topic but what happened with ascj 9 that was similar to CB is that still coming out or did they stop because CB is going to do the same thing?

Swooping
08-04-2014, 04:19 PM
Little off topic but what happened with ascj 9 that was similar to CB is that still coming out or did they stop because CB is going to do the same thing?

Same thing what happens with 70%+ of drugs in phase 2 mate. God knows what reason, could be from financial reasons to effectiveness. Nobody knows. The literature is really scarce on ascj-9 though. People have tried it and had very mixed results (not good generally), stained like hell too.

burtandernie
08-05-2014, 03:28 PM
Ah okay just wondered. Thats my biggest worry about CB is that it wont get funded and seen through to the finish line. There are lots of good things that never made it and its just never the same trying to make it yourself these things are just too hard to do your on own

Haircure
08-05-2014, 06:40 PM
Ah okay just wondered. Thats my biggest worry about CB is that it wont get funded and seen through to the finish line. There are lots of good things that never made it and its just never the same trying to make it yourself these things are just too hard to do your on own
I doubt funding will be an issue since Cosmo pharmaceuticals seems to be doing very well, especially in their stock, which has increased dramatically over the past 5 years or so. And it's most likely the same for other treatments, because if they worked, then there would definitely be investors involved. So most likely treatments that have been postponed or canceled have likely been done so due to issues with effectiveness.

Duke
08-06-2014, 02:02 AM
Cosmo has more than enough funds...so as long as THEY decide to push CB for hair loss, funding will not be an issue!