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deuce
08-08-2013, 07:56 PM
I agree with you Staythick. It is truly depressing. I have been coming on these forums for 3 years, and it has been the same the whole time. People getting excited about these possible cures, but nothing ever comes of them. People have been talking about this cb for years and nobody I have ever seen with success. I am not trying to be negative, but how will it now make a difference if no one can get it to work? I am not a pessimist just a realist. Wasting my time on these forums made me this way. **** hair loss. It truly sucks.

hellouser
08-08-2013, 08:12 PM
Honestly, I don't even know if all the money I spend and treatments I have tried and currently use even do anything at all. Sometimes I think I should just save my cash, let nature take its course, and hope the HT industry improves for a more permanent solution. The current treatments available are just terrible...

Tell that to the finasteride dickriders.

That shit has no place for anyone who's an NW4 or higher. Good luck reversing anything after that. And since NW4+ looks already worse than NW3 (and that looks bad too) what the fvck is the point in clinging on to an NW4 stage head of hair?

deuce
08-08-2013, 08:14 PM
I agree houser. So what you think man? IS the future bright? I heard the 1000th x stregnth Bimatropost is being tested in an accelerated phase 2 trial starting this week. Could be good news.

hellouser
08-08-2013, 08:18 PM
I agree houser. So what you think man? IS the future bright? I heard the 1000th x stregnth Bimatropost is being tested in an accelerated phase 2 trial starting this week. Could be good news.

Its not on my radar. In fact, it never has been.

Aderans was my #1 treatment followed by Histogen. Even if bimatropost has success, god knows when its made available. I've got more faith in CB right now, we'll see how Kane's form III CB fares for us. Hopefully its good. Just gotta wait a few months for some results.

yan
08-08-2013, 08:20 PM
I got this message from Cosmo pharmaceuticals about a month ago.


Thank you for your interest on our anti-androgen CB-03-01.
At this moment the product is under clinical evaluation only for Acne, nor for alopecia. It is too early foresee the possible date of availability for sale in US and EU.
Clinical studies for the indication for Alopecia are not yet scheduled.
kind regards.
G. Celasco

They released a timeline earlier this year in one of their presentations where they said start of phase 2 and clinical evaluation early 2014, end of POC early 2015...

But these two statements don`t contradict each other...

Anyway its just too damn long away... We need it now.

optimisticyouth
08-08-2013, 10:02 PM
Tell that to the finasteride dickriders.

That shit has no place for anyone who's an NW4 or higher. Good luck reversing anything after that. And since NW4+ looks already worse than NW3 (and that looks bad too) what the fvck is the point in clinging on to an NW4 stage head of hair?

You're probably right, if you're already too far gone, then there's really no point in using fin. Having said that, however, fin CAN help many people who catch their hair loss early on. I'm not sure where your hatred towards fin and its users comes from, but you act like it causes side effects in nearly everyone. That doesn't seem to be reality though.

hellouser
08-08-2013, 10:07 PM
You're probably right, if you're already too far gone, then there's really no point in using fin. Having said that, however, fin CAN help many people who catch their hair loss early on. I'm not sure where your hatred towards fin and its users comes from, but you act like it causes side effects in nearly everyone. That doesn't seem to be reality though.

The hatred is toward every current option and every complacent hair loss sufferer. Its inexcusable for propecia to be the best solution to hair loss after 20 years in 2013... and we're STILL years away from a cure.

We've failed MISERABLY as a hair loss community to demand and push forward for superior alternatives. I cannot believe that in 2013 such a relatively SHIT treatment is still the #1 option.

And once a cure does come to the market, everyone will fully agree that its shit... theres NO EXCUSE for us not have a proper solution by now.

deuce
08-08-2013, 10:36 PM
Wasn/t one of yall looking for this?

http://www.cosmopharmaceuticals.com/~/media/Files/C/Cosmo-Pharmaceuticals/news/press/pr2010/20101006/2010-10-06_en.pdf

thechamp
08-09-2013, 12:16 AM
The hatred is toward every current option and every complacent hair loss sufferer. Its inexcusable for propecia to be the best solution to hair loss after 20 years in 2013... and we're STILL years away from a cure.

We've failed MISERABLY as a hair loss community to demand and push forward for superior alternatives. I cannot believe that in 2013 such a relatively SHIT treatment is still the #1 option.

And once a cure does come to the market, everyone will fully agree that its shit... theres NO EXCUSE for us not have a proper solution by now.

Your right 2013 we all work hard have money still no cure i have come to the point I'm just going to shave my head and embrace it!

UK_
08-09-2013, 01:15 AM
Your right 2013 we all work hard have money still no cure i have come to the point I'm just going to shave my head and embrace it!

Wait!!! Dont go until you've seen this: (it might be something)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7SwA1ENqxI

clandestine
08-09-2013, 07:16 AM
The hatred is toward every current option and every complacent hair loss sufferer. Its inexcusable for propecia to be the best solution to hair loss after 20 years in 2013... and we're STILL years away from a cure.

We've failed MISERABLY as a hair loss community to demand and push forward for superior alternatives. I cannot believe that in 2013 such a relatively SHIT treatment is still the #1 option.

And once a cure does come to the market, everyone will fully agree that its shit... theres NO EXCUSE for us not have a proper solution by now.

Amen.

StayThick
08-09-2013, 07:29 AM
The hatred is toward every current option and every complacent hair loss sufferer. Its inexcusable for propecia to be the best solution to hair loss after 20 years in 2013... and we're STILL years away from a cure.

We've failed MISERABLY as a hair loss community to demand and push forward for superior alternatives. I cannot believe that in 2013 such a relatively SHIT treatment is still the #1 option.

And once a cure does come to the market, everyone will fully agree that its shit... theres NO EXCUSE for us not have a proper solution by now.

Wait!!! There's always rolling a bunch of needles on your head. The cure is right here in front of us... What are you talking about Hellouser?! :rolleyes:

DesperateOne
08-09-2013, 08:20 AM
Wait!!! There's always rolling a bunch of needles on your head. The cure is right here in front of us... What are you talking about Hellouser?! :rolleyes:

Well I am rolling that on my head but its painful as hell. I still don't think that will be the true cure. I will be applying some stuff while I roll.

It is true that we should have a freaking cure by now, I am so tied of this freaking situation. Why do all those geniuses go to study physics? We needed a few of them to study hair loss, we would of had this crap beat. Why did we have mediocre scientist who are nothing but sheeple among the few researchers.

hellouser
08-09-2013, 08:55 AM
Wait!!! There's always rolling a bunch of needles on your head. The cure is right here in front of us... What are you talking about Hellouser?! :rolleyes:

The wounding theory is backed by actual science. If you want to knock it, you may as well completely dismiss Follica.

If your stance is to ignore trial and error, then I don't give a shit about your comments.

simba
08-09-2013, 10:27 AM
Now that you have all stop whining we can get back to whats important.

I've got another question about CB, in the trials they said they're using a 5% solution, but they don't state the absolute amount of CB (or solution) that they're using, will it be 5% with 1ml solution or 5ml/10ml etc?

hellouser
08-09-2013, 10:37 AM
Now that you have all stop whining we can get back to whats important.

I've got another question about CB, in the trials they said they're using a 5% solution, but they don't state the absolute amount of CB (or solution) that they're using, will it be 5% with 1ml solution or 5ml/10ml etc?

Thats way to specific of a question. We don't even know the vehicle, theres no way we'd know the amount used in it.

Just think of it as minox, 1ml is typically not enough to cover the entire scalp, so if you want complete coverage, it'll probably 2ml or more.

yan
08-09-2013, 11:36 AM
Now that you have all stop whining we can get back to whats important.

I've got another question about CB, in the trials they said they're using a 5% solution, but they don't state the absolute amount of CB (or solution) that they're using, will it be 5% with 1ml solution or 5ml/10ml etc?

Dude this makes no sense. % is the strenght.

1% = 10mg/1ml or 20mg/2ml or 100mg/10ml
5% = 50mg/1ml or 100mg/2ml or 500mg/10ml

If you apply 1ml 1% cb to cover your hairline, you applied 10mg CB. If you apply 2ml 1% cb to cover your whole head, you applied 20mg CB.

So 200 dollar for 1g CB from kane + lets assume you use 2ml 5% daily = 10 days ??? Wtf. This would be ridicilous expensive!! Its like 10x as expensive as RU.

hellouser
08-09-2013, 11:44 AM
Dude this makes no sense. % is the strenght.

1% = 10mg/1ml or 20mg/2ml or 100mg/10ml

If you apply 1ml to cover your hairline, you applied 10mg CB. If you apply 2ml to cover your whole head, you applied 20mg CB.

This.

Although I've got a gut feeling that an ethanol/pg vehicle may work just as well *if* youre dermarolling as well. Penetration should be significantly easier, I've seen sources say that molecules with a weight of up to 10,000 dalton can pass through skin when dermarolled.

Which is interesting because this is what would allow BNP-32 to pass through skin EASILY as its molecular weight is 3,464 dalton. Would love to see results with that.

yan
08-09-2013, 11:54 AM
Cortexolone 17alpha propionate 1g Form III from Kane: 200 dollar

How long will it last?

1ml 1% daily = 100 days = 2 dollar / day
2ml 1% daily = 50 days = 4 dollar / day

1ml 5% daily = 20 days = 10 dollar / day
2ml 5% daily = 10 days = 20 dollar / day

CB is going to test 5% anhydrous solution. So lets assume you have to cover your whole scalp. That costs you 20 dollar / day. Wow, so damn expensive!

And this is only the price for CB, the price for the vehicle is not included... But I guess 1% could give you also good results if applied with the right vehicle.

hellouser
08-09-2013, 12:01 PM
Cortexolone 17alpha propionate 1g Form III from Kane: 200 dollar

How long will it last?

1ml 1% daily = 100 days = 2 dollar / day
2ml 1% daily = 50 days = 4 dollar / day

1ml 5% daily = 20 days = 10 dollar / day
2ml 5% daily = 10 days = 20 dollar / day

CB is going to test 5% anhydrous solution. So lets assume you have to cover your whole scalp. That costs you 20 dollar / day. Wow, so damn expensive!

And this is only the price for CB, the price for the vehicle is not included... But I guess 1% could give you also good results if applied with the right vehicle.

Group buys would be necessary to bring the price down.

But I think the 5% number is just a safety measure much like finasteride; its not necessary to use it at 5mg, 1mg shows the same efficacy.

yan
08-09-2013, 12:08 PM
Group buys would be necessary to bring the price down.

But I think the 5% number is just a safety measure much like finasteride; its not necessary to use it at 5mg, 1mg shows the same efficacy.

Exactly my thoughts. They pursue the best possible results with 5%.
Its maybe like 23% regrowth with 1% compared to 25% regrowth with 5%. (just examples)

If you are happy with your current hair, you might be able to use 1% CB twice a week or something like that, just to maintain.

tdo
08-09-2013, 12:31 PM
Ive been using Kane's CB form III for around a month and half now.

Ive switched between vehicles, first using KB, PG/Oleyl, and finally now to ethanol/pg/oleyl. PG/Oleyl did not burn or irritate my scalp but it left huge white flakes.

Before using CB, I was seeing around 10-15 hairs while showering. Now I am seeing around 5-10 or less.

I cant say Ive seen any visible improvement but my hair hairloss is minimal so its hard to judge. I have to also note that I am not sure if I am really balding. Ive seen several IAHRS docs and only 1 out of 4 said I was balding, so I am not sure whats going on or who to believe.

hellouser
08-09-2013, 01:29 PM
Ive been using Kane's CB form III for around a month and half now.

Ive switched between vehicles, first using KB, PG/Oleyl, and finally now to ethanol/pg/oleyl. PG/Oleyl did not burn or irritate my scalp but it left huge white flakes.

Before using CB, I was seeing around 10-15 hairs while showering. Now I am seeing around 5-10 or less.

I cant say Ive seen any visible improvement but my hair hairloss is minimal so its hard to judge. I have to also note that I am not sure if I am really balding. Ive seen several IAHRS docs and only 1 out of 4 said I was balding, so I am not sure whats going on or who to believe.

Before CB, were you using anything else? Fin? RU? 10-15 hairs while showering is quite a low number. If youre now seeing 5-10 less, that means you typically seeing 5-10 hairs in the shower. Thats a pretty significantly low number.

tdo
08-09-2013, 01:36 PM
Before CB, were you using anything else? Fin? RU? 10-15 hairs while showering is quite a low number. If youre now seeing 5-10 less, that means you typically seeing 5-10 hairs in the shower. Thats a pretty significantly low number.

Hell,

I meant that I am now seeing around 5-10 hairs while showering whereas before I was seeing 10-15.

Ive never been on anything before CB.

Like I said in my previous post, most IAHRS docs say I am not balding while Dr. Rassman said I am. He performed a "miniaturization" test and found no area of my scalp with miniaturized hair. He followed up with a bulk test. The bulk test showed that an area of my crown had slightly less density so he concluded I was balding very slowly therefore I had no miniaturized hair. Ive had two miniaturization test done 9 months apart and still no miniaturization so I dont know what to say....

hellouser
08-09-2013, 01:37 PM
Hell,

I meant that I am now seeing around 5-10 hairs while showering whereas before I was seeing 10-15.

Ive never been on anything before CB.

Jesus, youre lucky. I'm shedding 20+ hairs while showering.

simba
08-09-2013, 02:14 PM
Cortexolone 17alpha propionate 1g Form III from Kane: 200 dollar

How long will it last?

1ml 1% daily = 100 days = 2 dollar / day
2ml 1% daily = 50 days = 4 dollar / day

1ml 5% daily = 20 days = 10 dollar / day
2ml 5% daily = 10 days = 20 dollar / day

CB is going to test 5% anhydrous solution. So lets assume you have to cover your whole scalp. That costs you 20 dollar / day. Wow, so damn expensive!

And this is only the price for CB, the price for the vehicle is not included... But I guess 1% could give you also good results if applied with the right vehicle.

Isn't cb meant to be a once weekly topical?

1ml 1% weekly = 100 weeks = 28cents/day, not bad

hellouser
08-09-2013, 02:25 PM
Isn't cb meant to be a once weekly topical?

1ml 1% weekly = 100 weeks = 28cents/day, not bad

I think I did read somewhere about that.... all I have on hand is this:

http://oi44.tinypic.com/2qa1ld4.jpg

NOTE: Just got confirmation, it was once WEEKLY but it was using iontophoresis. I'd love to get my hands on an iontophoresis device that can do it on the SCALP.

yan
08-09-2013, 02:39 PM
Isn't cb meant to be a once weekly topical?

1ml 1% weekly = 100 weeks = 28cents/day, not bad

They tested it once or twice a week with iontophoresis. But iontophoresis is far more powerful than a "normal" vehicle, so I assume you have to use it more frequently.

They apply CB daily for acne, who knows why...

yan
08-09-2013, 02:43 PM
NOTE: Just got confirmation, it was once WEEKLY but it was using iontophoresis. I'd love to get my hands on an iontophoresis device that can do it on the SCALP.

One thing is for sure, if you get your hands on an iontophoresis device, you will see dramatic improvement! Thats a proven thing.

CB via iontophoresis is really really powerful. Nearly 50% increase in follicular density (n/cm2) in only like 2 months! Thats freaking awesome.

hellouser
08-09-2013, 02:55 PM
One thing is for sure, if you get your hands on an iontophoresis device, you will see dramatic improvement! Thats a proven thing.

CB via iontophoresis is really really powerful. Nearly 50% increase in follicular density (n/cm2) in only like 2 months! Thats freaking awesome.

Where can we get a proper iontophoresis device?

All I can find is this:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Rio-Second-Face-Facial-Toner/dp/B0030NL7NS

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Rio-Galvanic-Reduction-Rejuvenation-Treatment/dp/B00827XDT8/ref=sr_1_9?s=drugstore&ie=UTF8&qid=1376085190&sr=1-9&keywords=iontophoresis

http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/466402861/Galvanic_Beauty_machine_hammer_lift_with.html

And other similar ones on ebay, which I've heard are garbage.

But even if theyre not, how do we use an iontophoresis? Where does the CB go?

hiilikeyourbeard
08-09-2013, 03:19 PM
the price on this stuff needs to go down. jesus christ

lilpauly
08-09-2013, 03:21 PM
Yes the price must come down its to high. 2 years ago mp treatments had it for 320 per gram so it has come down lol

yan
08-09-2013, 03:27 PM
Where can we get a proper iontophoresis device?

All I can find is this:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Rio-Second-Face-Facial-Toner/dp/B0030NL7NS

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Rio-Galvanic-Reduction-Rejuvenation-Treatment/dp/B00827XDT8/ref=sr_1_9?s=drugstore&ie=UTF8&qid=1376085190&sr=1-9&keywords=iontophoresis

http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/466402861/Galvanic_Beauty_machine_hammer_lift_with.html

And other similar ones on ebay, which I've heard are garbage.

But even if theyre not, how do we use an iontophoresis? Where does the CB go?

To be honest with you, I have no idea... :P

Conpecia
08-09-2013, 03:42 PM
@staythick dude you've been negative as **** the past couple months, no idea what's up.

yan
08-09-2013, 04:18 PM
edit

lilpauly
08-09-2013, 04:22 PM
Fellas lets wait for the vehicle to made for cb, I will have the trailist for the growth factors post their progress .

StayThick
08-09-2013, 04:38 PM
@staythick dude you've been negative as **** the past couple months, no idea what's up.

My bad Conpecia, it's just hard to contain my frustration with the current state of my hair and the lack of effin' options right now. I absolutely hate experimenting with my body using various powders and potions just to hope something positive can occur. It feels like nothing promising is in the works to be released soon either. Just sucks to be losing hair at this point in my life.

If there were viable options, I'd feel better...but I'm stuck rolling needles on my head and hoping CB from ID will be legit

In either case, my apologies brotha....just in one of those funks right now. I just want my hair back.

chimera
08-09-2013, 04:39 PM
All I can find is this:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Rio-Second-Face-Facial-Toner/dp/B0030NL7NS

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Rio-Galvanic-Reduction-Rejuvenation-Treatment/dp/B00827XDT8/ref=sr_1_9?s=drugstore&ie=UTF8&qid=1376085190&sr=1-9&keywords=iontophoresis

http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/466402861/Galvanic_Beauty_machine_hammer_lift_with.html


Woa, that's actually pretty cheap. And I was worrying they were going to be very expensive, a couple of hundreds at least.

Do you know CB's molecular weight?, maybe a very, very hardcore sesion of dermaroller could help...

Conpecia
08-09-2013, 05:54 PM
My bad Conpecia, it's just hard to contain my frustration with the current state of my hair and the lack of effin' options right now. I absolutely hate experimenting with my body using various powders and potions just to hope something positive can occur. It feels like nothing promising is in the works to be released soon either. Just sucks to be losing hair at this point in my life.

If there were viable options, I'd feel better...but I'm stuck rolling needles on my head and hoping CB from ID will be legit

In either case, my apologies brotha....just in one of those funks right now. I just want my hair back.


no worries dude, i totally understand and i think we're pretty much all in the same boat. i think about my hair all day every day. i obsess over it. and yes, the existing treatments are really shitty and it sucks having to dump random shit on our heads or down our throats and just sit and wait, knowing we are mostly likely gonna keep losing what we have unless we get on fin or dut. but i honestly think we're inching closer and closer, and i do believe the costarelis stuff is important. i do believe that cb has good potential, and that at least SOMETHING will be here by 2015. that's less than 2 years. even if it's just a topical fin with no sides and improved donor regeneration, that's on the right path. if we can all just stop further loss without sides and then improve hair transplant yields and donor regeneration, we will at least never be *slick* bald, and surely something will come out before the end of the decade that blows all of this bullshit away. just do what you can to stop your loss. i'm gonna do some research on fighting fin and dut sides, maybe we are better off attacking this from that angle rather than ****ing with random unproven shit. just gotta keep the faith man, we're all in this together. at least you have a ton of other dudes in this forum who feel your exact pain. i know that helps me.

hiilikeyourbeard
08-09-2013, 05:57 PM
no worries dude, i totally understand and i think we're pretty much all in the same boat. i think about my hair all day every day. i obsess over it. and yes, the existing treatments are really shitty and it sucks having to dump random shit on our heads or down our throats and just sit and wait, knowing we are mostly likely gonna keep losing what we have unless we get on fin or dut. but i honestly think we're inching closer and closer, and i do believe the costarelis stuff is important. i do believe that cb has good potential, and that at least SOMETHING will be here by 2015. that's less than 2 years. even if it's just a topical fin with no sides and improved donor regeneration, that's on the right path. if we can all just stop further loss without sides and then improve hair transplant yields and donor regeneration, we will at least never be *slick* bald, and surely something will come out before the end of the decade that blows all of this bullshit away. just do what you can to stop your loss. i'm gonna do some research on fighting fin and dut sides, maybe we are better off attacking this from that angle rather than ****ing with random unproven shit. just gotta keep the faith man, we're all in this together. at least you have a ton of other dudes in this forum who feel your exact pain. i know that helps me.

fighting sides would be great I'm about to give up cause of mine

yan
08-09-2013, 06:14 PM
fighting sides would be great I'm about to give up cause of mine

Did you try out a really small dose? I take 0.2mg twice a week since 4 months. Managed to maintain what I had...

No sides and believe me, I`m so damn horny lately... :P So not even libido issues.

I had sides on 1mg / day...

hiilikeyourbeard
08-09-2013, 06:19 PM
Did you try out a really small dose? I take 0.2mg twice a week since 4 months. Managed to maintain what I had...

No sides and believe me, I`m so damn horny lately... :P So not even libido issues.

I had sides on 1mg / day...

I take .6 every three days I dunno how to go lower with proscar tabs. dissolve the pills somehow maybe

yan
08-09-2013, 06:23 PM
I take .6 every three days I dunno how to go lower with proscar tabs. dissolve the pills somehow maybe

Well there is no reason to take proscar tabs if you take that low amount of fin. Propecia twice a week 0.2 or 0.25mg is really cheap.

Conpecia
08-09-2013, 06:26 PM
Well there is no reason to take proscar tabs if you take that low amount of fin. Finasterid twice a week 0.2 or 0.25mg is really cheap.

i tried this and unfortunately had sides. i am going to switch to dutasteride because my sides were gynecomastia and i've read at least some studies that dutasteride caused less gyno than finasteride. if that fails i will return to a low dose of propecia and work my way back up, using estrogen blockers if necessary.

yan
08-09-2013, 06:29 PM
i tried this and unfortunately had sides. i am going to switch to dutasteride because my sides were gynecomastia and i've read at least some studies that dutasteride caused less gyno than finasteride. if that fails i will return to a low dose of propecia and work my way back up, using estrogen blockers if necessary.

Ok try it, but from a scientific side of view, there is no reason why dut should cause fewer gyno-sides. Its simple as that: The more DHT you suppress, the more testosteron you have, the more estrogen you have in your body. Are you sure its gyno? I thought the same with 1mg / day, but I guess it was only more fat around my chest. But it sucks too to be honest. It also looks a bit like gyno.

hiilikeyourbeard
08-09-2013, 06:34 PM
as odd as it is would someone sell me like 4 1mg tabs?

chimera
08-09-2013, 06:38 PM
if that fails i will return to a low dose of propecia and work my way back up, using estrogen blockers if necessary.

There is a reason almost nobody uses estrogen blockers to treat finasteride side-effects. Estrogen blockers and aromatase inhibitors also cause side effects. Yeah, believe it or not, they also produce sexual side-effects...

yan
08-09-2013, 06:39 PM
as odd as it is would someone sell me like 4 1mg tabs?

I would give you 4 tabs for free, but I live in europe... ;)

hiilikeyourbeard
08-09-2013, 06:42 PM
I would give you 4 tabs for free, but I live in europe... ;)

lol no worries

Conpecia
08-09-2013, 06:42 PM
Ok try it, but from a scientific side of view, there is no reason why dut should cause fewer gyno-sides. Its simple as that: The more DHT you suppress, the more testosteron you have, the more estrogen you have in your body. Are you sure its gyno? I thought the same with 1mg / day, but I guess it was only more fat around my chest. But it sucks too to be honest. It also looks a bit like gyno.

yeah it's gotta be gyno, my chest hurts like hell. constantly. and i developed big nips and sagging ... breasts for lack of a better word. but the pain is the worst, i could give a **** less about the other stuff, just lose weight, you know? but it hurts really bad, like a horrible toothache in your nip man

Conpecia
08-09-2013, 06:44 PM
and dude, we have been wondering about the fin/dut thing. i have read a study in which gyno was less in dut than fin. 50% less actually. no one knows why, we all have the same belief as you with regard to the estrogen effects of blocking dht, but the study showed otherwise...

yan
08-09-2013, 06:45 PM
yeah it's gotta be gyno, my chest hurts like hell. constantly. and i developed big nips and sagging ... breasts for lack of a better word. but the pain is the worst, i could give a **** less about the other stuff, just lose weight, you know? but it hurts really bad, like a horrible toothache in your nip man

Ok that really doesn`t sound good.

I mean you got not much other options left, so you might give dut a go. I wouldn`t, but its up to you... ;) Anyway, wish you the best if you decide to start!

chimera
08-09-2013, 06:46 PM
yeah it's gotta be gyno, my chest hurts like hell. constantly. and i developed big nips and sagging ... breasts for lack of a better word. but the pain is the worst, i could give a **** less about the other stuff, just lose weight, you know? but it hurts really bad, like a horrible toothache in your nip man


Wait a minute, if your only problem is gyno, I think there are things like tomoxifen in cream form which work pretty good for gyno, and is sides-free

Conpecia
08-09-2013, 06:47 PM
also progesterone cream was recommended to me, but i haven't tried either. kind of sketched out about fighting side effects from one drug with another drug. really wish this CB would just ****ing work...

Conpecia
08-09-2013, 06:49 PM
i have some letrozole as well but again i'm scared to use it because of an estrogen rebound and the side effects may be pretty bad. that stuff is powerful.

edit: actually **** it guys, i'm going to get surgery on the gyno and then i'll be able to take propecia again. it doesn't return after surgery. i'll just maintain a good weight.

yan
08-09-2013, 06:54 PM
Btw. just a short story. One of my friends tried fin and had some minor sides. He was the only person I recommended not to use fin anymore, because he really looks like Ljungberg. :P He always shaved it kind of low, but atm like blade 1. And he looks really good. Last weekend he thanked me for my advice. He is happy now and to be honest, I envy him for being happy bald. :P
But as I said, it largely depends on your look (headshape, tan, muscles etc...)

I have several friends who are nearly bald, but I work in the security branch and those guys are all really self confident, muscular and everything. The shaved baldies I know are far more happier than NW 3+ who try to hide their hairloss.

I have my biggest respect for people who just shave it short and live happy. There are also some I know which began to shave after NW2.5 and kept it really really short since then (Blade 1). I envy them, although I shave it too, but only to Blade #4-6. Never managed to shave everything down.

Conpecia
08-09-2013, 07:01 PM
guys, is gynecomastia not supposed to hurt? doing some research on it now and realizing i might actually have a bigger issue. kind of freaked out. mine has hurt off and on pretty regularly for about a year and a half now... sometimes really bad.

yan
08-09-2013, 07:05 PM
guys, is gynecomastia not supposed to hurt? doing some research on it now and realizing i might actually have a bigger issue. kind of freaked out. mine has hurt off and on pretty regularly for about a year and a half now... sometimes really bad.

It is supposed to hurt, especially if you press your nipples... But most important sign is if you start to feel hard tissue underneath your nipple, which grows.

Conpecia
08-09-2013, 07:07 PM
It is supposed to hurt, especially if you press your nipples... But most important sign is if you start to feel hard tissue underneath your nipple, which grows.

ok. in all honesty it hurts much less since quitting fin this past january, but still flairs up. strangely it tends to flare up when i have acid reflux for whatever reason, like my throat and nips flare up when i eat spicy foods.

either way i think i'm gonna get surgery next month. insurance will most likely cover it if i go to my doctor and tell him it's hurting. i already did that once a year ago so hopefully that's good testimony to deal with the insurance company...

clandestine
08-09-2013, 07:21 PM
i have some letrozole as well but again i'm scared to use it because of an estrogen rebound and the side effects may be pretty bad. that stuff is powerful.

edit: actually **** it guys, i'm going to get surgery on the gyno and then i'll be able to take propecia again. it doesn't return after surgery. i'll just maintain a good weight.

Conpecia; Gynecomastia can absolutely return after surgery. Please research.

hiilikeyourbeard
08-09-2013, 07:38 PM
this is gonna sound so homosexual and i promise it's not lol but i have no one to talk to about hairloss and it's killing me. i can only read so much on here and share so much but i just need someone to talk to about it i think, my friends are a bunch of douche bags and don't really understand. anyone wanna chat on skype or somethin?

hellouser
08-10-2013, 12:41 AM
Woa, that's actually pretty cheap. And I was worrying they were going to be very expensive, a couple of hundreds at least.

Do you know CB's molecular weight?, maybe a very, very hardcore sesion of dermaroller could help...

Molecular weight of CB is about 400-500 I think, or just slightly above 500, so more or less at the breaking point of the maximum weight.

As far as I know, dermarolling should allow molecules with a weight of up to 10,000 dalton to pass through skin.

I've mentioned this before, but if thats true, then BNP-32 would easily be able to penetrate skin as its weight is 3,464, which is no surprise why nobody got results using it with lubrajel... too heavy!

Dermarolling for CB should make it really, REALLY easy to pass it through skin. I'll continue to dermaroll myself once a week and apply CB on all days outside of my rolling session.

Hopefully I can thicken up my hair back to what it was a few years ago and maybe, MAYBE fill in the temples a little bit (a few mm and I'd be pretty excitied, this way I'd know im regrowing and maintaining and would definitely go for an HT with Gho for at least some regeneration or Pilofocus should it prove regen). I just need my temples filled in, I dont have any bald spots anywhere else, just general thinning.

SOTF
08-10-2013, 01:53 AM
And this is one reason amongst many why it's clear to me finasteride side effects are the result of reading forum posts.

The difference in serum DHT @ .25 vs 1 in a propecia/proscar tab is negligible. The dosage vs. it's effects are pretty flat with this drug. If you are crippled by these terrible, terrible sides, taking 1 mg you would be experiencing about the same with .25 mg.

Avacfc
08-10-2013, 05:41 AM
i have some letrozole as well but again i'm scared to use it because of an estrogen rebound and the side effects may be pretty bad. that stuff is powerful.

edit: actually **** it guys, i'm going to get surgery on the gyno and then i'll be able to take propecia again. it doesn't return after surgery. i'll just maintain a good weight.

I had gyno surgery 6 weeks ago which was due to propecia. I will never touch it again after the pain effort i had to go through to get it removed. Have surgery done and just stick to cet untill something else becomes available, seems to be working for me. You will get so much more confidence once those damned lumps are removed i promise you.

clandestine
08-10-2013, 05:44 AM
Conpecia; Gynecomastia can absolutely return after surgery. Please research this.

UK_
08-10-2013, 05:53 AM
How does gyno not return after surgey? Do they remove the receptors from the surrounding area?

Conpecia have you tried this?:

http://andractim.com/

List of side effects:

Hair loss :D

clandestine
08-10-2013, 05:59 AM
this is gonna sound so homosexual and i promise it's not lol but i have no one to talk to about hairloss and it's killing me. i can only read so much on here and share so much but i just need someone to talk to about it i think, my friends are a bunch of douche bags and don't really understand. anyone wanna chat on skype or somethin?

Therapists can help if your insurance covers it.

clandestine
08-10-2013, 06:00 AM
How does gyno not return after surgey? Do they remove the receptors from the surrounding area?

Conpecia have you tried this?:

http://andractim.com/

List of side effects:

Hair loss :D
It can return after surgery, if stimulated.

For example, by medication, called medication induced gynecomastia.

deuce
08-10-2013, 09:48 AM
Hellouser when are you starting the cb? I am a little low on funds right now so I am going to continue taking my FIN for the next couple of months. I get a bonus at work in early October so I am gonna get it when I do.

yan
08-10-2013, 10:09 AM
And this is one reason amongst many why it's clear to me finasteride side effects are the result of reading forum posts.

The difference in serum DHT @ .25 vs 1 in a propecia/proscar tab is negligible. The dosage vs. it's effects are pretty flat with this drug. If you are crippled by these terrible, terrible sides, taking 1 mg you would be experiencing about the same with .25 mg.

Not really dude. I took 1mg daily and now 0.2mg twice a week. Thats like a 17th part of the dose.

yan
08-10-2013, 10:42 AM
Its like 0.057mg daily. So don`t tell me anything about serum DHT etc. I know what I do.

petewete
08-10-2013, 02:51 PM
Can everybody posting about fin, propecia or whatever continue your debate on another thread which is labelled fin or prophecia??? Stop infesting these threads with your useless info that doesn't belong here. It becomes impossible to understand and follow these new products when 20 out of 25 pages have become a heated exchange between a few of you about the same old crap.

The moderators need to step in at some point, clean up some of these threads so they're actually relevant.

Javert
08-10-2013, 03:15 PM
Can everybody posting about fin, propecia or whatever continue your debate on another thread which is labelled fin or prophecia??? Stop infesting these threads with your useless info that doesn't belong here. It becomes impossible to understand and follow these new products when 20 out of 25 pages have become a heated exchange between a few of you about the same old crap.

The moderators need to step in at some point, clean up some of these threads so they're actually relevant.

+1

yan
08-10-2013, 03:20 PM
Can everybody posting about fin, propecia or whatever continue your debate on another thread which is labelled fin or prophecia??? Stop infesting these threads with your useless info that doesn't belong here. It becomes impossible to understand and follow these new products when 20 out of 25 pages have become a heated exchange between a few of you about the same old crap.

The moderators need to step in at some point, clean up some of these threads so they're actually relevant.

You are right, this was the wrong place... There is no possibility to delete posts?

hiilikeyourbeard
08-10-2013, 03:28 PM
my Skype is the same as my name here if anyone wants to talk about hairloss

StayThick
08-12-2013, 04:38 AM
Emailed Iron-Dragon to inquire what vehicle they will be using for their CB-01-03 and they responded:

50% propylene glycol / 50% ethanol

Just an FYI for those that are curious on what their vehicle will be. Isn't this the vehicle others have tried here and failed??

hiilikeyourbeard
08-12-2013, 05:10 AM
Emailed Iron-Dragon to inquire what vehicle they will be using for their CB-01-03 and they responded:

50% propylene glycol / 50% ethanol

Just an FYI for those that are curious on what their vehicle will be. Isn't this the vehicle others have tried here and failed??

lol yup. the hell are they doing?

chimera
08-12-2013, 05:52 AM
Molecular weight of CB is about 400-500 I think, or just slightly above 500, so more or less at the breaking point of the maximum weight.

As far as I know, dermarolling should allow molecules with a weight of up to 10,000 dalton to pass through skin.

I've mentioned this before, but if thats true, then BNP-32 would easily be able to penetrate skin as its weight is 3,464, which is no surprise why nobody got results using it with lubrajel... too heavy!

Dermarolling for CB should make it really, REALLY easy to pass it through skin. I'll continue to dermaroll myself once a week and apply CB on all days outside of my rolling session.


According to kane, CB's molecular weight is only 402.52, which is pretty low.

You would not ned a dermaroller for the CB (I would roll regardless, just to get a stronger effect). Then I suppose our only and last problem is to find a right vehicle.

simba
08-12-2013, 06:03 AM
Emailed Iron-Dragon to inquire what vehicle they will be using for their CB-01-03 and they responded:

50% propylene glycol / 50% ethanol

Just an FYI for those that are curious on what their vehicle will be. Isn't this the vehicle others have tried here and failed??

Urgh what gimps.

Looks like ill need to buy from Kane and mix it myself.

hellouser
08-12-2013, 07:20 AM
According to kane, CB's molecular weight is only 402.52, which is pretty low.

You would not ned a dermaroller for the CB (I would roll regardless, just to get a stronger effect). Then I suppose our only and last problem is to find a right vehicle.

Skin usually has a 500 dalton tolerance, 400 is much lower, some may have issues with it but I think on the scalp where skin is thinning along with the hair, it should make it fairly easy regardless of vehicle. Dermarolling should only increase absorption.

baldnotbeautiful
08-12-2013, 09:33 AM
so its not worth buying from Iron dragon then?

Any word on if this stuff degrades when mixed like RU does? Or is it ok to buy a pre-mixed solution like this?

Conpecia
08-12-2013, 09:43 AM
Can everybody posting about fin, propecia or whatever continue your debate on another thread which is labelled fin or prophecia??? Stop infesting these threads with your useless info that doesn't belong here. It becomes impossible to understand and follow these new products when 20 out of 25 pages have become a heated exchange between a few of you about the same old crap.

The moderators need to step in at some point, clean up some of these threads so they're actually relevant.

i mean i agree with this but wtf do you expect us to do? if someone asks why i'm considering cb and i tell them it's because of propecia sides, how am i supposed to get that info across? it's a problem of the forum's format. no pm's, no shoutbox, no way to write on someone's profile. doesn't give us many options.

i do agree that moderators should be able to come in and clean up old conversations that are off-topic. good luck getting that pushed through though.

simba
08-12-2013, 09:56 AM
Skin usually has a 500 dalton tolerance, 400 is much lower, some may have issues with it but I think on the scalp where skin is thinning along with the hair, it should make it fairly easy regardless of vehicle. Dermarolling should only increase absorption.

How do I go about dermarolling with the purpose of increasing absorbtion? Do I roll and then apply the CB straight away or do I wait until the day after.

simba
08-12-2013, 10:00 AM
Emailed Iron-Dragon to inquire what vehicle they will be using for their CB-01-03 and they responded:

50% propylene glycol / 50% ethanol

Just an FYI for those that are curious on what their vehicle will be. Isn't this the vehicle others have tried here and failed??

I just realized this probably wont be a problem.

Cant we just buy some Oleyl and mix it into ID's solution?

hellouser
08-12-2013, 10:02 AM
I just realized this probably wont be a problem.

Cant we just buy some Oleyl and mix it into ID's solution?

Adding Oleyl to their premixed solutions lowers the concentration of the CB dosage. Also, have they even stated how much CB theyre giving away in total at $45?

simba
08-12-2013, 12:09 PM
Adding Oleyl to their premixed solutions lowers the concentration of the CB dosage. Also, have they even stated how much CB theyre giving away in total at $45?

But isn't it the absolute amount that matters, so it'll be diluted but we can just apply more (and really, even if adding oleyl makes cb half as effective, that's still better then fin)

yan
08-13-2013, 09:10 AM
Just realised that there is a slightly newer presentation on cosmo`s website.

Alopecia trial amendments due to change in formulation...

Next Milestone:

• POC alopecia $ 10 m (expected H1 2015)


http://www.cosmopharmaceuticals.com/~/media/Files/C/Cosmo-Pharmaceuticals/ir/presentations/2013-08-02/US_Road_Show.pdf - page 28

But those points are listed under: CB-03-01 in 2012 and onwards

This could also mean that the change in formulation happened last year.

yan
08-13-2013, 09:19 AM
Does anyone of you expect some new informations regarding the vehicle / efficacy from cosmo?

In my opinion, we have to wait until early 2015 to be really sure that there is a vehicle that works and shows similiar results like those from cosmo in 2011 with iontophoresis...
Until then its trial and error... But even in 2015, I don`t think they will publish the vehicle informations. At least we hopefully know by then that it works.

adam k
08-14-2013, 06:11 AM
But isn't it the absolute amount that matters, so it'll be diluted but we can just apply more (and really, even if adding oleyl makes cb half as effective, that's still better then fin)

Indeed adding more solvent will reduce the molarity of the solution and as simba said to recieve the same amount of moles of CB more of the solution must be used.

Alternatively if one has some pure CB of the correct form then this dilution problem can be rectified with a simple calculation of how much more CB to add to bring the concentration back up. Of course for this to be viable we must know the exact concentration of the existing CB by Iron Dragon.

Jazz1
08-25-2013, 05:50 PM
Iron dragon are legit guys I bought from then the pdg2 stuff my friend who tried fin failed to maintain hair. He recently about 2 months ago started iron dragon pdg2 and all his hairloss has halted, there's couple guys in hairloss help who have had the same. I can't speak for others but I can speak for my work friend as I recommended it and he's using it with success, unfortunatly no regrowth yet.

yan
08-26-2013, 04:52 AM
Btw. just a side information:

Cosmo`s share price rose about 200% since 1 year. Why didn`t I buy some shares? Still no new treatment, but at least I would be rich now. :P

HARIRI
08-26-2013, 07:09 AM
Btw. just a side information:

Cosmo`s share price rose about 200% since 1 year. Why didn`t I buy some shares? Still no new treatment, but at least I would be rich now. :P

You are Damn right about that yan. I wish I had extra savings to buy some Cosmo shares. CB with the right vehicle will do wonders for sure. Mamma Mia, Forza Cosmo :-)

burtandernie
08-26-2013, 03:56 PM
Personally I think CB all panning out is way bigger and more important then anything else in the pipeline. All that other stuff just doesnt have history or results. We know androgens are a major factor maybe even a single way to completely prevent MPB forever but who knows we have never seen a strong enough androgen inhibitor. CB might be it and keeping hair cant be understated because if you keep the hair you dont need all that expensive futuristic stuff like hair multiplication

HARIRI
08-31-2013, 01:13 AM
Here is a great explanation about CB from Iron Dragon :-)


Cortexolone 17-alpha propionate (CB-03-01): Peripherally Selective Anti-Androgen

Cortexolone 17-alpha propionate, also called CB-03-01, is a derivative of 11-deoxycortisone[1] with peripheral, selective anti-androgen activity. Published data demonstrate that cortexolone 17α-propionate possesses therapeutic potential as a topical anti-androgen for skin disorders such as acne, as well as androgenic alopecia (male pattern baldness). Cortexolone boasts equal or greater safety and potentially greater efficacy compared to retinoids used to treat acne, as well as a more localized and therefore potentially safer and more effective mechanism as compared to systemic 5-alpha reductase drugs such as finasteride and dutasteride. Though not currently FDA-approved, if FDA approval is granted cortexolone 17-alpha propionate will be the first commercially available topical anti-androgen[1].

Background and Timeline of Development

According to the manufacturer, Italian company Cosmo Pharmaceuticals, cortexolone “tightly mimics the profile of an ideal anti-androgen for topical use”[1]. The stated objective of the manufacturer is “to create a product for topical application to treat acne, male pattern baldness, and seborrhoea that does not have the side effects of products currently being taken in tablet form”[1] which presumably would include oral isotretinoin (Accutane) and antibiotics for acne, and 5-AR inhibitors such as dutasteride (Avodart) and finasteride (Propecia) for male pattern baldness.

Five clinical trials assessing the safety and efficacy of cortexolone 17-alpha propionate in European markets have been completed with favorable results, and non-clinical early data supporting the IND (investigational new drug) application was also deemed promising[2].

Per US FDA code, each individual disease or disorder claimed to be treated by a drug will require separate applications for the drug approval process. According to Cosmo, an IND application for acne was granted by FDA in the first quarter of 2012, with phase II escalating dose trials in process at the time of this writing[1]. While the future appears bright for cortexolone 17-alpha propionate as an alopecia drug, the IND process has not been initiated at this time; the manufacturer has stated their intent to apply for an IND for androgenic alopecia in 2014[1].

Anti-inflammatory and Anti-Androgenic Mechanism and Safety Profile and Rationale

Due to a common androgenic pathway between inflammatory acne and androgenic alopecia, cortexolone 17-alpha propionate is considered a promising drug for both disorders[3]. What is unique about cortexolone 17-alpha propionate is the peripheral and selective mechanism.

Cortexolone has good penetrative properties, making it suitable for topical use, and while effective locally it is metabolized into a harmless, inactive parent compound prior to circulating systemically:

“CB-03-01’s mechanism of action is based on the competitive activity between testosterone and DHT for androgen-receptors in the skin. CB-03-01 is devoid of systemic anti-androgenic activity, in as far as it does not inhibit gonadotropins hypersecretion, and has a moderate anti-inflammatory effect. In preclinical studies, CB-03-01 was shown to be rapidly metabolized by the skin to the parent compound cortexolone, which is a physiological steroid lacking anti-androgen activity and is completely safe. CB-03-01 has also been shown to have good penetration through the skin, making it the first anti-androgen suitable for topical application.”(emphasis added)[3]

The primary supporting study around which Cosmo bases their claims regarding safety and efficacy of topical anti-androgen therapy for acne was published in the British Journal of Dermatology in 2011.[4]

There are effective anti-androgens currently available, but they are not suitable for topical use and act in a systemic manner which, due to the pervasiveness of androgen activity and androgen receptors in physiological function throughout the body, results in a poor safety profile. As Cosmo CEO Mauro Ajani states, “drugs available for the treatment of acne are either not very effective or have substantial negative side effects”[3].

The recent manufacturer-funded studies and internal data are abundant, but there is also early peer-reviewed data that is illustrative of the comparative potency, and safety rationale, of cortexolone (CB-03-01) compared to other drugs:

“The aim of this study was to investigate the antiandrogenic activity of a new monoester of cortexolone, cortexolone 17alpha-propionate (CAS 19608-29-8, CB-03-01). Although the compound displayed a strong local antiandrogenic activity… it did not exhibit antiandrogenic activity in rats after subcutaneous injection, nor did it affect gonadotropins hypersecretion… As topical antiandrogen, the steroid resulted about 4 times more active than progesterone (CAS 57-83-0) and, when compared to known antiandrogen standards, it was about 3 times more potent than flutamide (CAS 13311-84-7), about 2 times more effective than finasteride …Its pharmacological activity seemed to be primarily related to its ability to antagonistically compete at androgen receptor level.”[5]

Androgen-Receptor-mediated Acne Mechanisms

The pathogenesis of acne vulgaris involves multiple factors, but local mechanisms mediated by androgens are known to play a significant role in the development of lesions:

“Acne is a chronic inflammatory disease of the pilosebaceous unit resulting from androgen-induced increased sebum production, altered keratinisation, inflammation, and bacterial colonisation of hair follicles on the face, neck, chest, and back by Propionibacterium acnes.”[15]

The consensus is that each factor of acne vulgaris pathogenesis is involved in a complex interplay, and the resulting dysfunction often requires a multi-prong treatment approach:

“The multifactorial nature of the pathogenesis of acne includes increased sebum production, alteration of the quality of sebum lipids, inflammatory processes, interaction with neuropeptides and dysregulation of the hormone microenvironment, follicular hyperkeratinization and inflammation maintained by Propionbacterium acnes products within the follicle”[16]

The four primary factors – altered keratinization, bacterial colonization by P. acnes, increased sebum production, and inflammation – are often treated separately using different drugs; for example, oral isotretinoin to reduce sebum production, exogenous hormones (usually in women) to reduce androgen-receptor-mediated effects, topical retinoids or other drugs with anti-inflammatory properties, and systemic antibiotics for reduction of P. acnes colonization.

According to Lee et al, new data that shows that cultured sebum cells product inflammatory cytokines through an androgen-mediated pathway, suggesting that “DHT may not only be involved in sebum production but also in production of proinflammatory cytokines in acne” [17].

Comparative Efficacy

In Treatment of Acne

In order to quantify the efficacy of cortexolone in treatment of acne, it was compared directly with tretinoin (Retin-A) 0.05% w/v in a randomized three-arm double-blinded controlled study with parallel treatment groups[3].

The trial entailed application of either compound (or control) to the facial region of sufferers of acne vulgaris, and lasted for ten weeks and compared total counts of two types of lesions, as well as overall severity of the acne using a standardized index[3]. Evaluations of each outcome were performed every other week[3].

According to the manufacturer’s website, “preliminary data of the trial showed that CB-03-01 met all clinical end points and was clinically superior to placebo and to Retin-A® in the treatment of facial acne vulgaris after 8 weeks of drug application” (emphasis added) [3]. The fact that cortexolone 17-alpha propionate not only took effect faster, but was more clinically effective than Retin-A in a large controlled trial demonstrates that its safety and efficacy profiles, taken together, are unprecedented.

The mechanism of action of cortexolone 17α-propionate is unique and suggests an exceptional safety profile compared to systemically dosed 5-AR inhibitory drugs currently used to treat androgenic alopecia.

Cortexolone 17-alpha propionate, Androgen Receptors, and AR-Targeted Treatment of Alopecia

Compared to the recently-demonstrated PGD2 mechanism, knowledge of the effects of androgen receptor agonism is not cutting-edge; the mechanism was first mentioned in published literature in the late 1980s [7], and early off-label use of 5-alpha reductase (5AR) inhibitor drugs finasteride (then Proscar, now also Propecia) and Dutasteride (Avodart) existed in the 1990s [8] prior to the approval of finasteride labeled for treatment of alopecia in 1997[9]. 5AR inhibitors prevent the local enzymatic conversion of testosterone into dihydrotestosterone, which is 2.4-10 times more potent in its action at the androgen receptor than testosterone depending on tissue and action examined [10]. However, they also reduce serum DHT levels, sometimes drastically, resulting in potentially undesirable effects[11].

5AR inhibitors are effective to prevent hair shedding when taken long-term by men with androgenic alopecia (AGA). However, lately there have been increasing concerns as to the short-term and long-term safety profiles of these drugs, both in civil courts and in the published literature:

“Men who suffered ongoing erectile dysfunction after taking prescription drugs to treat prostate problems and male pattern baldness will be able to pursue a class-action lawsuit against the drug maker, a B.C. judge has ruled.”[12]

“The significant reduction in DFI within 3 months of finasteride cessation and continued improvement suggests a causal link between finasteride and sperm DNA damage. We hypothesize that low-dose finasteride may exert a negative influence on sperm DNA integrity, resulting in increased pregnancy losses. We suggest that in infertile men using finasteride, sperm DFI should be measured in addition to semen parameters, and a trial of discontinuation of finasteride may be warranted.”[13]

The likely primary mechanism of most or all reported side-effects not due to nocebo-type effect is systemic action of 5-alpha reductase. When taken orally, 5AR drugs have systemic action and are in no way confined in their action to the peripheral (local) area of effect, namely the scalps of balding men. Topical applications of finasteride preparations may reduce systemic circulation, but will not prevent this issue, since, unlike cortexolone, the finasteride gel that absorbs into the dermal layer can still be circulated systemically in its active form[14].

The androgen-receptor-mediated mechanism is upstream of PGD2, meaning that it is hypothetically possible to reduce PGD2 levels to treat baldness without interfering with androgen levels. On the other hand, since PGD2 is likely associated in a general sense with inflammation, modulation of the androgen pathway may be an insufficient way to address baldness in some men if PGD2 elevation is caused by a pathway other than androgen receptor binding by DHT. Without more published PGD2 data, though, it is impossible to predict how future PGD2 inhibitor drugs may change the treatment landscape for AGA patients.

It is reasonable to state that the androgen receptor pathway of baldness is well-demonstrated, well-studied, and is an effective target for drug development in the interest of treating androgenic alopecia. Cortexolone, with a distinct yet similar mechanism (competitive inhibition/receptor inactivation, preventing DHT-binding) is a major step forward in addressing the major downside to 5AR inhibition as a baldness treatment because, if approved, it may be as effective as systemic, orally-dosed 5AR inhibitors, and would almost certainly be safer."

HARIRI
09-10-2013, 02:11 AM
Check out this link:-

8 documents about Cortexolone 17-alpha propionate (CB-03-01)

http://www.biocentury.com/products/cb-03-01

Avacfc
09-11-2013, 06:08 AM
Quick update on this. Been on kanes CB for a little over a week now. Shedding deffo reduced. Used to run my hand through my hair of a morning and the sink would be full of hair, however im lucky if theres two or three in there at the moment.

Would be content if this just stopped hairloss but lets see if it can thicken up some of the babies. I will keep a close eye.

DesperateOne
09-11-2013, 06:18 AM
Quick update on this. Been on kanes CB for a little over a week now. Shedding deffo reduced. Used to run my hand through my hair of a morning and the sink would be full of hair, however im lucky if theres two or three in there at the moment.

Would be content if this just stopped hairloss but lets see if it can thicken up some of the babies. I will keep a close eye.

How are you mixing it, the vehicle and current regime. Also, I thought the hairs one had that were bound to jump ship two weeks ago would still drop even if on fin or any other treatment. So maybe CB works really fast. I wonder if CB with the right vehicle can regrow hair after one has already used fin.

Avacfc
09-11-2013, 09:59 AM
How are you mixing it, the vehicle and current regime. Also, I thought the hairs one had that were bound to jump ship two weeks ago would still drop even if on fin or any other treatment. So maybe CB works really fast. I wonder if CB with the right vehicle can regrow hair after one has already used fin.

Mixing 140mg (two weeks worth) with 14ml of pg/eth. I am using only CB and minox once a day.

burtandernie
09-14-2013, 01:50 PM
My opinion is using this is much more dangerous then finasteride just because so many unknowns its way to early on and I question any source selling this experimental stuff, but Im sure everyone with common sense thought of that already. Maybe I can try fin for a few years until something new.

clandestine
09-14-2013, 01:53 PM
My opinion is using this is much more dangerous then finasteride just because so many unknowns its way to early on and I question any source selling this experimental stuff, but Im sure everyone with common sense thought of that already. Maybe I can try fin for a few years until something new.

Yes, well, many of us can't take finasteride. So there's that.

Can. not. tolerate. fin. in. need. of. better. treatments.

hiilikeyourbeard
09-14-2013, 03:12 PM
My opinion is using this is much more dangerous then finasteride just because so many unknowns its way to early on and I question any source selling this experimental stuff, but Im sure everyone with common sense thought of that already. Maybe I can try fin for a few years until something new.

just get it from trusted sources like Kane.

Sogeking
09-14-2013, 05:50 PM
Yes, well, many of us can't take finasteride. So there's that.

Can. not. tolerate. fin. in. need. of. better. treatments.

Seconded!

yan
09-15-2013, 10:51 AM
Btw. cosmo is about to finish a clinical PK (Pharmacokinetics) and a 6 month chronic tox study for alopecia in about three months.

Pharmacokinetics:
"It attempts to discover the fate of a drug from the moment that it is administered up to the point at which it is completely eliminated from the body. Pharmacokinetics describes how the body affects a specific drug after administration through the mechanisms of absorption and distribution, as well as the chemical changes of the substance in the body (e.g. by metabolic enzymes such as cytochrome P450 or glucuronosyltransferase enzymes), and the effects and routes of excretion of the metabolites of the drug."

Parts of the study analyse:

Liberation - the process of release of a drug from the pharmaceutical formulation.
Absorption - the process of a substance entering the blood circulation.
Distribution - the dispersion or dissemination of substances throughout the fluids and tissues of the body.
Metabolization – the recognition by the organism that a foreign substance is present and the irreversible transformation of parent compounds into daughter metabolites.
Excretion - the removal of the substances from the body. In rare cases, some drugs irreversibly accumulate in body tissue.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharmacokinetics


So I guess we will soon know more about cb`s safety profile. I expect to hear a lot of new information on the yearly R&D Day in january.

hellouser
09-15-2013, 12:28 PM
Btw. cosmo is about to finish a clinical PK (Pharmacokinetics) and a 6 month chronic tox study for alopecia in about three months.

Pharmacokinetics:
"It attempts to discover the fate of a drug from the moment that it is administered up to the point at which it is completely eliminated from the body. Pharmacokinetics describes how the body affects a specific drug after administration through the mechanisms of absorption and distribution, as well as the chemical changes of the substance in the body (e.g. by metabolic enzymes such as cytochrome P450 or glucuronosyltransferase enzymes), and the effects and routes of excretion of the metabolites of the drug."

Parts of the study analyse:

Liberation - the process of release of a drug from the pharmaceutical formulation.
Absorption - the process of a substance entering the blood circulation.
Distribution - the dispersion or dissemination of substances throughout the fluids and tissues of the body.
Metabolization the recognition by the organism that a foreign substance is present and the irreversible transformation of parent compounds into daughter metabolites.
Excretion - the removal of the substances from the body. In rare cases, some drugs irreversibly accumulate in body tissue.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharmacokinetics


So I guess we will soon know more about cb`s safety profile. I expect to hear a lot of new information on the yearly R&D Day in january.

Hopefully THAT information will finally put people at ease with using CB from black market sources.

burtandernie
09-15-2013, 02:11 PM
Yeah I guess its something more, but there is a reason it takes so long to get through FDA its all important to know for safety. The idea of experimental chemicals is not a good one.

gainspotter
09-16-2013, 04:20 AM
Is anyone yet to actually have any success with this treatment?

hellouser
09-16-2013, 07:45 AM
Is anyone yet to actually have any success with this treatment?

Too soon to really know, but my shedding is down. A lot of treatments take many months before results are shown, just be patient... or at least try to.

locke999
09-16-2013, 08:03 AM
Hellouser, if you are planning to get back on RU how will you determine if CB is working or not?

yan
09-16-2013, 08:55 AM
With all respect to hell, but he isn`t the right person to test CB as a stand-alone-treatment and I understand him. He doesn`t have the time to wait months for potential treatments to work, so he has to jump on RU again, bcs he knows that this works for him.

He would lose a ton of hairs if CB doesn`t work, so its more than understandable that he jumps back on RU.

I think if we would have official study results showing results, a lot more would drop fin / ru and get on cb, including me. ;)

Cob984
09-16-2013, 08:56 AM
when id he say hes jumping back on ru??

yan
09-16-2013, 09:00 AM
I just dermarolled yesterday seeing how last week I wasn't very vigorous with my session. I know I pressed harder this time, but I get this weird feeling that each time I dermaroll, I bleed more easily than the following week. It's been about 4-5 sessions of dermarolling and I've yet to see any positive results from using Minox and CB with it. I'm going to be ordering RU next week as well and get back on it.


In the "Dermarolling Community Trial" Thread...

Cob984
09-16-2013, 09:24 AM
well that sucks,
seems to me an admission that cb isnt doing much or even maintaining

yan
09-16-2013, 09:27 AM
well that sucks,
seems to me an admission that cb isnt doing much or even maintaining

Not really. He is only like 2-3 weeks on cb as far as I know. Far too early to tell anything. He just knows that RU works for him, bcs he already was months on it. I assume its too risky for him to stay on cb for months without knowing if it works or not.

But how about asking him? :P

I think best is if early hairloss sufferers start CB, they don`t risk that much in case it doesn`t work. But if you were on treatments for years, you risk to lose a ton of hairs in 4-6 months (which you need to assess if a treatment is working or not) if the treatment isn`t working.

pat
09-16-2013, 01:41 PM
And we have PICS of a member who used cb + minox for a whole year, he has had good regrowth using a cream vehicle at 1% . PM lilpauly aka mark if u want to join our community and get in on our Group Buys. We can get CB for $105 per g if we get a large enough order. Everything gets tested. 1 gram will last 100 days @ 1% in a 1ml application. 2% would even be affordable at $105 per gram. We can get any research chem. SABA Gel, vitamin D analogue, RU, ect. We are even working on getting BNP and CNP, plus a HSC alternative. We have a super organized forum with full text libraries on the latest hairloss advancements (not misleading abstracts and bro science). There are no fees, nor requirements to buy products, just rules and etiquette to keep us sufferers civilized. PM Lilpauly, you will regret not joining us.:)

This is an old post of yours but....Id really be interested in getting the Saba Gel. I don't know how or if I can PM yet though

hellouser
09-16-2013, 02:00 PM
well that sucks,
seems to me an admission that cb isnt doing much or even maintaining

I've stated countless times my shedding has decreased and that I've only been on it for about 3 weeks. You guys need to READ, it's getting really tiring repeating myself when I've made everything really REALLY clear about my regimen and timelines.

You guys do realize that even finasteride may take 6+ months to start working, right? CB shouldn't be much different in that it blocks DHT but regrowth may take a few weeks or months or many months.

cp9
09-16-2013, 04:46 PM
Hey hellouser, I'm looking for an alternative treatment to fin (I can't take the sides anymore).. Do you reckon I should get on RU (which has worked wonders for you) or just jump straight to CB?

HARIRI
09-16-2013, 08:46 PM
Hey hellouser, I'm looking for an alternative treatment to fin (I can't take the sides anymore).. Do you reckon I should get on RU (which has worked wonders for you) or just jump straight to CB?

Just jump to CB, many members had Finasteride similar sexual sides from RU. I am actually interested and ready to use it. Start with 1% CB by adding 10mg in 1ml based on Hellouser previous post.

cp9
09-17-2013, 03:40 AM
Can I mix CB powder with lipogaine like many users do with RU? Sorry for being a bit of a newb

HARIRI
09-17-2013, 04:06 AM
Can I mix CB powder with lipogaine like many users do with RU? Sorry for being a bit of a newb

I dont think so because Lipogaine is stuffed with ingredients and somehow sticky. I dont think that CB will be dissolved there. However you can mix it with plain minoxidil formula like Regaine 2% or 5% where there is plenty space for the CB. Johnnynohair is doing it successfully with his Regaine 2% and soon I will do it with my Regaine 5% but dont go more than CB 1% as it may not dissolve well.

If you wish to go higher then better to buy seperate plain ethanol/PG vehicle like what Hellouser did.

pat
09-17-2013, 03:36 PM
Uhhhhhhh how come the picture Kane uses for CB is actually anthrax powder :confused::eek:

http://www.thekaneshop.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/thumbnail/56x/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/a/n/anthraxpowder131.jpg

note the ending of the url once you click it to see the full verison

yan
09-17-2013, 04:25 PM
Uhhhhhhh how come the picture Kane uses for CB is actually anthrax powder :confused::eek:

http://www.thekaneshop.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/thumbnail/56x/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/a/n/anthraxpowder131.jpg

note the ending of the url once you click it to see the full verison

Holy shit...

That is really bad marketing! :P

DesperateOne
09-17-2013, 04:35 PM
Holy shit...

That is really bad marketing! :P

Wow, now that's funny.

lilpauly
09-17-2013, 07:53 PM
guys i tested the cb-03-01 i can post the results in this thread. i will tell kane to remove the picture lol

lilpauly
09-17-2013, 07:58 PM
I sent her Kane's HPLC and NMR, along with drap's 3rd party test.

[her first email]
I have reviewed the data regarding CB-03-01. The compound is found to be pure based on evaluation of the HPLC chromatogram and NMR spectral data. If you need further insight into the evaluation of this data, please feel free to ask, and I will be happy to provide you with more detail regarding the identification and characterization of CB-03-01 from the data provided.
her second email]
The NMR from 'Kane' looks good. There are 34 hydrogens in the MF for CD-03-01 which all appear within the integrations of this NMR spectra at the expected ppm absorptions for their respective structural positions. It is from this observation that one can suggest not only is this compound identified, but it is pure.

Looking at the second NMR from Kane, we see the absorptions match the independent 3rd party's perfectly,

Looks like your compound is there, and is pure. The baseline for all spectra are flat, except for absorptions, and the hydrogens integrate to the number expected, matching the molecular formula.

lilpauly
09-17-2013, 08:07 PM
third party test results

lilpauly
09-17-2013, 08:10 PM
bigger shots

simba
09-18-2013, 12:48 PM
Your the man lilpauly

Avacfc
09-18-2013, 01:04 PM
Just a quick update on the cb front. Im coming into my third week of taking now and i have to say im getting pretty excited. I have vellues hair popping up all along the hair line which seem to be getting thicker everyday. I just hope this is a sign it will thicken existing hairs also.

I dont wanna over hype it just yet but im just being wary for any gyno signs as this is what prevents me from taking fin and ru. If/when these hairs become visable on a camera i will 100% share. Early days but fingers crossed.

pat
09-18-2013, 01:05 PM
Just a quick update on the cb front. Im coming into my third week of taking now and i have to say im getting pretty excited. I have vellues hair popping up all along the hair line which seem to be getting thicker everyday. I just hope this is a sign it will thicken existing hairs also.

I dont wanna over hype it just yet but im just being wary for any gyno signs as this is what prevents me from taking fin and ru. If/when these hairs become visable on a camera i will 100% share. Early days but fingers crossed.

May I ask what vehicle you're using? and are you using anything else like minox?

Avacfc
09-18-2013, 01:12 PM
May I ask what vehicle you're using? and are you using anything else like minox?

Im using a 50/50 mix of pg/eth. On minox once a day on the hairless areas of my hairline only which i have been doing for the last 3 years!

Knockin on NW4
09-18-2013, 02:08 PM
Im using a 50/50 mix of pg/eth. On minox once a day on the hairless areas of my hairline only which i have been doing for the last 3 years!

I hope u took before pics, even if u dont want to share them with the world. its the only way to see if its working or not. The mind can make the eye see what it wants... Oooo so deep lol. but seriously, consistent pics are way more rational than a sufferers mind. that being said, good luck!

clandestine
09-18-2013, 02:27 PM
Anyone dermarolling with CB besides hellouser?

Sogeking
09-18-2013, 02:28 PM
Guys don't want ot be too demanding and I am really grateful for the information from all the guys currently testing CB, however I think it would be prudent for future testers to have blood tests done for their testosterone and DHT levels. Before taking CB, and every 1 month afterwards.

It might be seen as being a hypochondriac but it could actually show us if anti androgens get to the blood or are they metabolised before entry into blood stream.

yan
09-18-2013, 02:33 PM
Guys don't want ot be too demanding and I am really grateful for the information from all the guys currently testing CB, however I think it would be prudent for future testers to have blood tests done for their testosterone and DHT levels. Before taking CB, and every 1 month afterwards.

It might be seen as being a hypochondriac but it could actually show us if anti androgens get to the blood or are they metabolised before entry into blood stream.

Do it if you want, but its not necessary. It doesn`t impact hormonal levels, thats a proven fact. Cosmo stated that fact various times, conducted european phase 1 for alopecia, european phase 1 / 2 for acne and US phase 1 & 2 clinical tests for acne and and and... You guys really want me to search and post the whole links again? I did it various times before, but ok I will do it once again if you still dont believe me lol.

hellouser
09-18-2013, 02:56 PM
Do it if you want, but its not necessary. It doesn`t impact hormonal levels, thats a proven fact. Cosmo stated that fact various times, conducted european phase 1 for alopecia, european phase 1 / 2 for acne and US phase 1 & 2 clinical tests for acne and and and... You guys really want me to search and post the whole links again? I did it various times before, but ok I will do it once again if you still dont believe me lol.

That and the fact that in about a month (I think) Cosmo is supposed to release detailed safety results. That should put an end to the side effects debate.

DesperateOne
09-18-2013, 04:08 PM
Just a quick update on the cb front. Im coming into my third week of taking now and i have to say im getting pretty excited. I have vellues hair popping up all along the hair line which seem to be getting thicker everyday. I just hope this is a sign it will thicken existing hairs also.

I dont wanna over hype it just yet but im just being wary for any gyno signs as this is what prevents me from taking fin and ru. If/when these hairs become visable on a camera i will 100% share. Early days but fingers crossed.

How can we know for sure that those vellus hairs are from Cb only and not something else

yan
09-18-2013, 04:12 PM
That and the fact that in about a month (I think) Cosmo is supposed to release detailed safety results. That should put an end to the side effects debate.

They are going to finish a large part of the phase 1 studies for alopecia in december, so I think they will release the study results by then or wait until the R&D Day in January.

yan
09-18-2013, 04:19 PM
To be more exactly:

6-month MiniPig Repeat Dose Tox Study ends in december (6 mo report 12/31/13)

6-month Chronic Tox Study ends in december

EU Clinical PK Study - Single / Repeat Dose is about to end next month

lilpauly
09-18-2013, 04:33 PM
btw i emailed kane about nano ru and nano cb .

clandestine
09-18-2013, 06:44 PM
btw i emailed kane about nano ru and nano cb .

Please let us know what he says mark; I'm very interested, as I'm sure many others are.

simba
09-19-2013, 06:29 AM
btw i emailed kane about nano ru and nano cb .

Whats nano ru/cb?

HARIRI
09-19-2013, 06:39 AM
Whats nano ru/cb?

This will really help you understand about Nano:-

http://www.nano.gov/you/nanotechnology-benefits

TO YOUNG TO RETIRE
09-19-2013, 07:52 AM
maybe smaller size to penetrate easier?

yan
09-20-2013, 03:15 PM
Just a small summary for people who ask why CB should be better than fin, ru or similar products.

- an impressive reduction of sebacious gland size, observed in about 85% of treated subjects.
- a decrease in dermal fibrosis, indicator of inflammatory process, after treatment mainly with CB-03-01
- a reduction of vessel diameter of peribulbar microvasculature
- a reduction of inflammatory cells after treatment with CB-03-01

You can`t simply argue with "even castrated men dont see much regrow", because CB acts on more layers.

This is old news, but still, a lot don`t know those facts.
http://files.investis.com/csm/presentations/RDday2010.pdf - page 81 - 86

HARIRI
09-21-2013, 12:12 AM
Just a small summary for people who ask why CB should be better than fin, ru or similar products.

- an impressive reduction of sebacious gland size, observed in about 85% of treated subjects.
- a decrease in dermal fibrosis, indicator of inflammatory process, after treatment mainly with CB-03-01
- a reduction of vessel diameter of peribulbar microvasculature
- a reduction of inflammatory cells after treatment with CB-03-01

You can`t simply argue with "even castrated men dont see much regrow", because CB acts on more layers.

This is old news, but still, a lot don`t know those facts.
http://files.investis.com/csm/presentations/RDday2010.pdf - page 81 - 86

Great info yan, Keep it up buddy. I'm waiting for my CB-03-01. I will mix it with my Regaine 5% as it already contains Ethanol + PG. :)

Basically I will divide my 60ml bottle into 3 bottles of 20ml and add 20mg in each time. Hope this will make it work better and stay fresh. The concentration will be 1%. This will really save my time instead of applying two solutions in one day. I guess I will be 2nd member after johnnynohair who mixes CB-03-01 with Regaine :D

yan
09-21-2013, 03:34 PM
Great info yan, Keep it up buddy. I'm waiting for my CB-03-01. I will mix it with my Regaine 5% as it already contains Ethanol + PG. :)

Basically I will divide my 60ml bottle into 3 bottles of 20ml and add 20mg in each time. Hope this will make it work better and stay fresh. The concentration will be 1%. This will really save my time instead of applying two solutions in one day. I guess I will be 2nd member after johnnynohair who mixes CB-03-01 with Regaine :D

This sounds good, I wish you the very best for your treatment! Keep us up to date buddy!

burtandernie
09-22-2013, 10:42 AM
I remember the company working on CB 03 01 said that it might be possible as a once weekly application. Hopefully that turns out to work well enough because it would be amazing for a sides free topical that only needs to get used once a week. Where do I buy?

Kalio
09-22-2013, 11:00 AM
Is there anything known about the price yet if and when Cosmo brings this stuff to the market?

Will it be roughly as expensive as buying it from Kane?

NeedHairASAP
09-22-2013, 11:45 AM
Sucks that kane etc dont just pre-mix it....

yan
09-22-2013, 01:29 PM
Is there anything known about the price yet if and when Cosmo brings this stuff to the market?

Will it be roughly as expensive as buying it from Kane?

No. It is years away from market entry, so we don`t know anything at this point.

DesperateOne
09-22-2013, 05:09 PM
No. It is years away from market entry, so we don`t know anything at this point.

Kane's nano mix should be better than the cream

pat
09-22-2013, 08:07 PM
kane's nano mix should be better than the cream

i need this asap

cp9
09-23-2013, 04:23 AM
So.. How's everyone doing with CB? Heard about reduced shedding a while back. Anything new? :)

Avacfc
09-23-2013, 05:27 AM
Hate to be the bring the bad news but i have been on CB 1% from kane for 3 weeks now with postive signs on the hair front.

However the last couple of days ive have been so tired and light headed. I took a days break to confirm it was CB and sure enough today i feel terrible again. It feel as though i could pass out at any moment and i cant focus on anything. Whats more im having strong signs of gyno with breast tenderness.

This is a real downer because i want this to work just as much as everybody else but im going to have to quit or reduce applications as i cant feel like this, i felt better on propecia!

Anyone else getting this?

clandestine
09-23-2013, 06:24 AM
Hate to be the bring the bad news but i have been on CB 1% from kane for 3 weeks now with postive signs on the hair front.

However the last couple of days ive have been so tired and light headed. I took a days break to confirm it was CB and sure enough today i feel terrible again. It feel as though i could pass out at any moment and i cant focus on anything. Whats more im having strong signs of gyno with breast tenderness.

This is a real downer because i want this to work just as much as everybody else but im going to have to quit or reduce applications as i cant feel like this, i felt better on propecia!

Anyone else getting this?

CB technically shouldn't have any sides. 😷

yan
09-23-2013, 06:37 AM
Sorry to hear this Avavfc. Really strange. You had gyno surgery 2 months ago right? So only now you have problems again, or is it some kind of post-op-pain?

We have to be cautious, we don't know how the vehicle affects the cb. Maybe if cb enters the blood too fast, it doesn't metabolize or something similar. Please consider that.

yan
09-23-2013, 06:46 AM
Yeah technically there shouldn`t be any systemic side effects, but who knows.

I repost this study:

Phase 2 European Pilot study for acne: http://intrepidthera.com/wp-co...2011-Trifu-et-al-.pdf

They used CB-03-01 1% cream.

"Regarding systemic tolerability, no clinically important abnormalities were detected in any treated group in haematology, clinical laboratory, urinalysis, vital signs and other observations related to safety"

So at least the CB 1% cream is proven to have no systemic side-effects.

But as I said, I have no idea how important the vehicle is in regards to side-effects.

hellouser
09-23-2013, 07:59 AM
CB technically shouldn't have any sides. 😷

No sides for me. Except for wicked hard erections, regular morningwood. Libido seems to be down again, but I attribute that to being very VERY busy, so no time to think about sex.

Cob984
09-23-2013, 08:06 AM
No sides for me. Except for wicked hard erections, regular morningwood. Libido seems to be down again, but I attribute that to being very VERY busy, so no time to think about sex.

what about the hair?
is it atleast containing hairloss if its too early to see anything else?

hellouser
09-23-2013, 08:16 AM
what about the hair?
is it atleast containing hairloss if its too early to see anything else?

I don't know at this point, its been about a month since I've been on CB... and things aren't worse but not much better either.

Avacfc
09-23-2013, 09:26 AM
CB technically shouldn't have any sides. 😷

These sides are real ive never had fatigue like it before. I just wonder if they have give me powder form finasteride instead, how are we to know? Because i am deffo seeing early positive signs with the hair.

burtandernie
09-23-2013, 04:07 PM
I think the FDA should fast track CB 03 01 through trials its a topical how much more dangerous then finasteride could it be?

yan
09-23-2013, 04:09 PM
Lol this will never ever happen. :P

If a topical like RU or CB goes systemic, its way more dangerous than fin. It could potentially block testosterone in your body.

burtandernie
09-23-2013, 04:54 PM
Yeah well tell that to all the people buying it from random online sites and doing it themselves citing those early studies saying its safe

yan
09-23-2013, 05:12 PM
The thing is, if you cant take fin, you have to try experimental and potential "dangerous" stuff. I know a lot about cb, but I prefer to wait until early 2014, when we have phase 2 acne results + phase 1 alopecia results. I think by then, we know a lot more about its savety profile.

But that said, regarding cb, I think we have more than just early studies. We are in the "lucky" situation that the cb for acne is the same, just another strength.

clandestine
09-23-2013, 06:50 PM
The thing is, if you cant take fin, you have to try experimental and potential "dangerous" stuff. I know a lot about cb, but I prefer to wait until early 2014, when we have phase 2 acne results + phase 1 alopecia results. I think by then, we know a lot more about its savety profile.

But that said, regarding cb, I think we have more than just early studies. We are in the "lucky" situation that the cb for acne is the same, just another strength.

This man speaks truth.

burtandernie
09-24-2013, 06:50 PM
Yeah that could be. Maybe I will wait until then too or if I dont try propecia before then maybe propecia will work for me and just help me maintain. Its hard to find reliable places to get it though too.

lilpauly
09-24-2013, 07:14 PM
Yeah well tell that to all the people buying it from random online sites and doing it themselves citing those early studies saying its safe

Well that's why third party testing is important and trusted source.

Pentarou
09-24-2013, 07:33 PM
The thing is, if you cant take fin, you have to try experimental and potential "dangerous" stuff. I know a lot about cb, but I prefer to wait until early 2014, when we have phase 2 acne results + phase 1 alopecia results. I think by then, we know a lot more about its savety profile.

We'd also know whether or not it actually works in practice. Too many people on hair loss forums are making assumptions about the efficacy of CB.

simba
09-25-2013, 05:38 AM
Lol this will never ever happen. :P

If a topical like RU or CB goes systemic, its way more dangerous than fin. It could potentially block testosterone in your body.

RU yes, CB being dangerous is very unlikely.

yan
09-25-2013, 05:40 AM
RU yes, CB being dangerous is very unlikely.

The studies we have seen till now suggest it is indeed very unlikely that cb is dangerous. But still, we have to be cautious in regards to experimental treatments.

The Dark Knight
09-25-2013, 07:29 AM
Well, I finally got all the stuff together to mix the CB, I'll apply it later on this week and update this thread with any progress in a week or two.

HARIRI
09-25-2013, 07:50 AM
Well, I finally got all the stuff together to mix the CB, I'll apply it later on this week and update this thread with any progress in a week or two.

Which vehicle will use? Is it Ethanol/PG? What percentage of CB are you going to use? Is it 1%? Keep us informed. Good Luck :)

The Dark Knight
09-26-2013, 10:56 AM
Which vehicle will use? Is it Ethanol/PG? What percentage of CB are you going to use? Is it 1%? Keep us informed. Good Luck :)


Yup, using the Ethanol and PG mix and I think I will start at 5% to test the waters and if that turns out fine, I'll try and go for the 15%. Thanks, hope this stuff really works!

pat
09-26-2013, 11:01 AM
Yup, using the Ethanol and PG mix and I think I will start at 5% to test the waters and if that turns out fine, I'll try and go for the 15%. Thanks, hope this stuff really works!

15%??? Wow that seems really high

HairBane
09-26-2013, 11:24 AM
Yup, using the Ethanol and PG mix and I think I will start at 5% to test the waters and if that turns out fine, I'll try and go for the 15%. Thanks, hope this stuff really works!

Isn't 15% ridiculously high for CB? I thought most people were using 1-2%?

Also didn't I bury you in a prison down a hole?

hellouser
09-26-2013, 11:41 AM
yup, using the ethanol and pg mix and i think i will start at 5% to test the waters and if that turns out fine, i'll try and go for the 15%. Thanks, hope this stuff really works!
also didn't i bury you in a prison down a hole?

lmao!

UK_
09-26-2013, 11:48 AM
Also didn't I bury you in a prison down a hole?

Lol I dont even wanan know what this is all about.:rolleyes:

hellouser
09-26-2013, 11:55 AM
Lol I dont even wanan know what this is all about.:rolleyes:

Bane & Dark Knight are characters from Batman.

The Dark Knight
09-26-2013, 11:59 AM
Isn't 15% ridiculously high for CB? I thought most people were using 1-2%?

Also didn't I bury you in a prison down a hole?

I thought 15% was the desired target? If not, I'll go for 1% CB then, means it will last longer too

You did, but I managed to escape, I'd watch out for Catwoman if I were you though

pat
09-27-2013, 07:56 PM
So we currently have the option to apply at a percentage like 1%, 3%, 5%, etc... or whatever we want.

But if there's the nano solution, which would be pre-made, what would the percentage be?

HARIRI
09-27-2013, 10:48 PM
So we currently have the option to apply at a percentage like 1%, 3%, 5%, etc... or whatever we want.

But if there's the nano solution, which would be pre-made, what would the percentage be?

Do you mean that Kane Shop will sell the CB formula pre mixed with Nano solution? This is a great news. Could anyone confirm this? :D

chimera
09-28-2013, 12:23 AM
I'll try and go for the 15%.

Are you rich?

The Dark Knight
09-28-2013, 12:25 PM
Are you rich?

I wish, I decided to go for 1% due to that and what everyone else here has said. Just made my first batch and application. My head feels a bit itchy on the hariline (where I applied it) but nothing else unusual, with RU I got a sense of instant relief and bit of tingling in my testicals, nothing here though, I hope thats a good thing.

pat
09-28-2013, 01:32 PM
Do you mean that Kane Shop will sell the CB formula pre mixed with Nano solution? This is a great news. Could anyone confirm this? :D

and i'm only assuming it would be pre-made just like the Growth Factors nano solution is

lilpauly
09-28-2013, 02:31 PM
Do you mean that Kane Shop will sell the CB formula pre mixed with Nano solution? This is a great news. Could anyone confirm this? :D

yes man kane is currently working on a vehicle for cb

eqvist
09-28-2013, 03:46 PM
Im a noob, but is it really good potential in CB?

chimera
09-28-2013, 07:42 PM
I´m a noob, but is it really good potential in CB?

In theory, yes. Picture a more powerful finasteride without sexual side effects...

The big problem right now is the price (at least for some of us), and also finding a proper vehicle, without it, we're ****ed deep in the ass.

Also, you could wait for CB to be released officially, but it will still take a couple of years before that happens...

DesperateOne
09-29-2013, 05:34 PM
yes man kane is currently working on a vehicle for cb

I am curious, is Kane going to test if the vehicle works? If so, how?
Do you think that it will cost more than the current version?

I think that the nano approach may have some merit, let's just hope, that's all we can do.

As much as I hate to admit it, Chimera might be right, we are screwed for now.

dan1938
02-02-2014, 11:48 AM
If I get sides from using even 1% RU, would CB make any difference in that respect? The studies show a nearly 1% systemic absorption which I think is very similar to RU's, so why would CB be any better as far as sides are concerned?

burtandernie
02-02-2014, 04:26 PM
No one can answer that because cosmo is studying the chemical as we speak. If we knew CB was safe in the vehicle they are using then it would be approved and sitting at a store to buy. The years of testing are to show that. In theory it turns into a harmless type of substance found normally in the body so its supposed to be safe but again no one knows if that is really true aside from the little prelim study they did showing that

TO YOUNG TO RETIRE
02-05-2014, 11:48 AM
:)

HairBeWithYou
02-05-2014, 02:05 PM
Hey guys, I understand that CB will be released for acne treatment first and it seems like they'll be releasing something soon. Would it then be possible to just use this off-label? I understand the formulation might be different though, but it might still be effective for hair loss? Just wondering if I'm way off base or not?

burtandernie
02-05-2014, 07:31 PM
I know everyone wants to use this off label after it comes out but the vehicle and concentration will not be at all tested or figured to work for MPB so your almost back to where you are now except you have the chemical itself I guess. It might not even work for MPB if you can get a prescription to use it off label to even try. We are going to need to still wait for them finish the MPB version IMO.

Seuxin
02-08-2014, 04:25 AM
Hello,

Anyone know this compagny ?

http://koutingsales.guidechem.com/pro-show1973783.html#inq

Is there any progress about a good vehcle for the CB ? Because waiting 2018 is too long .... :\

dan1938
02-08-2014, 10:07 AM
:)
what happened with your derma rolling thread on ***, heard you got banned. How is your progress?

dan1938
02-26-2014, 03:03 PM
I guess nothing came off it. I am amazed at the number of people who claim extraordinary success with one of those fads and then just disappear off the surface of the earth. Even if the method doesn't work, letting the rest of us know seems like the fair thing to do. Sometimes I suspect of the financial incentives that might be involved in such things.


what happened with your derma rolling thread on ***, heard you got banned. How is your progress?

Cob984
02-28-2014, 10:44 AM
so does anyone plan on working on this vehicle or has this been dropped now?

HairBane
02-28-2014, 08:49 PM
Well whatever work gets done on it is going to be mostly educated guess work about how to reverse engineer this stuff. You're welcome to try buying the ingredients yourself and having a crack at it.

Just a thought, but when Cosmo eventually release the CB in acne cream form (maybe next year? they're starting phase 3 now I think), could we just switch out a few of the ingredients which are bad for hair, and up the percentage ourselves?

burtandernie
03-08-2014, 02:14 PM
Yeah I like how the community drops the most promising things and pursues the dumbest ones like laser helmets.

hellouser
03-08-2014, 04:03 PM
Yeah I like how the community drops the most promising things and pursues the dumbest ones like laser helmets.

Dalek Helmets:


http://i62.tinypic.com/2199mkw.jpg

http://www.coolest-toys.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/dalek.jpg[/QUOTE]

Pate
03-27-2014, 12:44 AM
Updates from Cosmo on CB just released today.

- Phase II for acne completed in February, top line results expected in April.
- FDA has waived the requirement for a systemic carcinogenicity trial, which must mean they are satisfied there is no systemic absorption!
- $20M payment due from Valeant for the completion of Phase II milestone
- 120 patient Phase II POC trial comparing CB, minox and placebo for alopecia due to start in H2 2014, with IND filing in April.

Finally looks like some action on this front. Unlike most of these deadbeat startups like Histogen and Replicel, Cosmo is actually very successful financially so funding shouldn't be an issue. If the drug works in this trial I think there is a good chance it might be developed for sale (officially, not Chinese!).

They say it is on track for acne but slightly behind schedule for alopecia. Typical...

simba
03-27-2014, 04:41 AM
Updates from Cosmo on CB just released today.

- Phase II for acne completed in February, top line results expected in April.
- FDA has waived the requirement for a systemic carcinogenicity trial, which must mean they are satisfied there is no systemic absorption!
- $20M payment due from Valeant for the completion of Phase II milestone
- 120 patient Phase II POC trial comparing CB, minox and placebo for alopecia due to start in H2 2014, with IND filing in April.

Finally looks like some action on this front. Unlike most of these deadbeat startups like Histogen and Replicel, Cosmo is actually very successful financially so funding shouldn't be an issue. If the drug works in this trial I think there is a good chance it might be developed for sale (officially, not Chinese!).

They say it is on track for acne but slightly behind schedule for alopecia. Typical...

Thats great news, do you have any idea how long the Phase II trial will last?

Hair Bear
03-27-2014, 05:07 AM
Excellent, unless I am mistaken CB-03-01 is just about the only thing on the horizon, without this it will be a huge wait too long for some of us.
It may not be the best thing to hit the market but it will be the only thing of substance.

BDDFreak
03-27-2014, 08:32 AM
Excellent, unless I am mistaken CB-03-01 is just about the only thing on the horizon, without this it will be a huge wait too long for some of us.
It may not be the best thing to hit the market but it will be the only thing of substance.

I think bimatoprost is also on the horizon. With cb, bimatoprost and pilofocus which most likely will be in practice by 2015 then we can consider a lot of ppl essentially "cured" .

Sogeking
03-27-2014, 10:41 AM
Updates from Cosmo on CB just released today.

- Phase II for acne completed in February, top line results expected in April.
- FDA has waived the requirement for a systemic carcinogenicity trial, which must mean they are satisfied there is no systemic absorption!
- $20M payment due from Valeant for the completion of Phase II milestone
- 120 patient Phase II POC trial comparing CB, minox and placebo for alopecia due to start in H2 2014, with IND filing in April.

Finally looks like some action on this front. Unlike most of these deadbeat startups like Histogen and Replicel, Cosmo is actually very successful financially so funding shouldn't be an issue. If the drug works in this trial I think there is a good chance it might be developed for sale (officially, not Chinese!).

They say it is on track for acne but slightly behind schedule for alopecia. Typical...
Here's hoping mate. I am stoked for this. And I like the fact that Phase II for alopecia will compare it both to minox and placebo.
Go Cosmo...

burtandernie
03-27-2014, 08:00 PM
I think CB with a decent long term study showing it stops MPB can sell plenty by saying it prevents MPB with no sexual sides, and actually has the evidence proving its true. If it can become over the counter eventually it could sell big time.
The sexual sides and other possible problems did not help propecia with its sales

Mike K
03-27-2014, 09:33 PM
- 120 patient Phase II POC trial comparing CB, minox and placebo for alopecia due to start in H2 2014, with IND filing in April.



What does H2 and IND mean? Also isn't the problem with this stuff that there isn't a good vehicle for it? Does anyone know what vehicle they are planning to use in the trials?

lilpauly
03-28-2014, 01:59 AM
What does H2 and IND mean? Also isn't the problem with this stuff that there isn't a good vehicle for it? Does anyone know what vehicle they are planning to use in the trials?

Hi they might give more info next month regarding the vehicle in quarterly update

LMS
03-28-2014, 03:52 PM
I have full confidence in regards to CB and Cosmo being able to bring it to commercialization, unlike Histogen and those other start ups, Cosmo is a pharmaceutical company.

This is though, its essentially topical fin/dut without sides - if I wait before its released - even just the acne version so we can reverse engineer it I will probably be something like diffuse nw6 with recession to NW4 because I have aggressive MPB. I don't know what to bridge these 1-2 years with... RU? Dut made me piss like a mad man and infact Im still ****ed from it but its been only 3 days and Im getting better.

lilpauly
03-28-2014, 04:07 PM
I have full confidence in regards to CB and Cosmo being able to bring it to commercialization, unlike Histogen and those other start ups, Cosmo is a pharmaceutical company.

This is though, its essentially topical fin/dut without sides - if I wait before its released - even just the acne version so we can reverse engineer it I will probably be something like diffuse nw6 with recession to NW4 because I have aggressive MPB. I don't know what to bridge these 1-2 years with... RU? Dut made me piss like a mad man and infact Im still ****ed from it but its been only 3 days and Im getting better.

I have hopes in in bim as well!!!!

Pate
03-30-2014, 06:03 AM
What does H2 and IND mean? Also isn't the problem with this stuff that there isn't a good vehicle for it? Does anyone know what vehicle they are planning to use in the trials?

H2 or 2H means second half of 2014. IND is Investigational New Drug which is what they need to get approved by the FDA before they can conduct clinical trials in the US.

They have been doing a lot of work on the vehicle. They have said what the vehicle is based on but I forget. Maybe someone else remembers.

Mike K
03-30-2014, 09:34 AM
H2 or 2H means second half of 2014. IND is Investigational New Drug which is what they need to get approved by the FDA before they can conduct clinical trials in the US.

Thank you. Anyone have any vehicle info?

Cob984
03-30-2014, 09:57 AM
Pauly whats the acne vehicle bro?

deuce
03-30-2014, 12:48 PM
Any educated guesses on hair arrival or for acne?

yan
03-31-2014, 01:36 PM
Important quote from the recent presentation:

CB-03-01 for acne:
"What is important to know and what has emerged from the patient that we treated in the meantime, was the absolute safety profile of the drug that didnt reveal any serious adverse events treatment related, and confirm that the product is absolutely safe."

Tenma
03-31-2014, 08:16 PM
Important quote from the recent presentation:

CB-03-01 for acne:
"What is important to know and what has emerged from the patient that we treated in the meantime, was the absolute safety profile of the drug that didn’t reveal any serious adverse events treatment related, and confirm that the product is absolutely safe."

This is really important. It could mean they will probably jump from POC to Phase III for AGA too.

If that's the case we are only 3-4 years away from having the first topical antiandrogen.

CB and Dut should sofocate AGA for a long, long time

hellouser
03-31-2014, 08:28 PM
This is really important. It could mean they will probably jump from POC to Phase III for AGA too.

If that's the case we are only 3-4 years away from having the first topical antiandrogen.

CB and Dut should sofocate AGA for a long, long time

Waiting 3-4 years to basically halt further loss but not reverse it is pretty miserable news, many of us will be fully bald by then.

deuce
03-31-2014, 08:42 PM
Waiting 3-4 years to basically halt further loss but not reverse it is pretty miserable news, many of us will be fully bald by then.


That is true. This stuff sucks. I had to quit again after trying it for the third time with sides. WTF is it ever gonna get better. I mean damn why could not they do Acne last.

Tenma
03-31-2014, 08:51 PM
Waiting 3-4 years to basically halt further loss but not reverse it is pretty miserable news, many of us will be fully bald by then.

Havent you consider Fin or Dut? And it depends. If you are at the 2-3 nw level cb, dut and something like Pilofocus will change the game for good.

Also keep in mind that new stuff will be released in the mid-term.

I have high hopes in RestorGenex to succeed with their promising topical estrogen-antiandrogen plan.

Cob984
04-01-2014, 10:34 AM
Can some tell me the damn acne vehicle,
is it out? i need to try something else besides eth/pg

lilpauly
04-01-2014, 10:52 AM
Can some tell me the damn acne vehicle,
is it out? i need to try something else besides eth/pg

Desmond posted a better version . He found it on Cosmo presrntaion last year , u do not want the acne cream it contains ingredients that will be no good such as mineral oil , these ingredients don't penetrate the hair shaft only clog it

Cob984
04-01-2014, 11:06 AM
are you referring to the vehicle he posted with 20 different ingredients? did anyone even try that?

lilpauly
04-01-2014, 11:08 AM
are you referring to the vehicle he posted with 20 different ingredients? did anyone even try that?

It was like 8 or so, Cosmo might release the vehicle that they will be using in the next presentation in 2 weeks , we know its a gel, we know they are checking to see if the cb is stable in the gel ,

HairBane
04-01-2014, 12:44 PM
Desmond posted a better version . He found it on Cosmo presrntaion last year , u do not want the acne cream it contains ingredients that will be no good such as mineral oil , these ingredients don't penetrate the hair shaft only clog it

I'm pretty sure you're confused. AFAIK Cosmo have NEVER released any vehicle information, acne or AA.

The vehicle Desmond suggested was from a hirsutism cream called Vaniqa which targets the dermal papilla, hence why he thinks it might be able to deliver CB to the correct area, with slight modifications to avoid clogging hair shafts.

lilpauly
04-01-2014, 12:47 PM
I'm pretty sure you're confused. AFAIK Cosmo have NEVER released any vehicle information, acne or AA.

The vehicle Desmond suggested was from a hirsutism cream called Vaniqa which targets the dermal papilla, hence why he thinks it might be able to deliver CB to the correct area, with slight modifications to avoid clogging hair shafts.

Hi friend Cosmo did use 4 different vehicles for acne I will post them later tonight when u get home . 4 vehicles for the different forms of cb ,

HairBane
04-01-2014, 12:50 PM
Hi friend Cosmo did use 4 different vehicles for acne I will post them later tonight when u get home . 4 vehicles for the different forms of cb ,

Alright, thanks.

cichlidfort
04-01-2014, 09:07 PM
Is anyone actually confident that someone will find a vehicle before the actual legitimate CB comes out in 2017/18? If someone does find a working vehicle for CB they better announce it and spread the news like wild fire.

hellouser
04-01-2014, 09:18 PM
Is anyone actually confident that someone will find a vehicle before the actual legitimate CB comes out in 2017/18? If someone does find a working vehicle for CB they better announce it and spread the news like wild fire.

It'll spread like wildfire on its own, don't worry about that.

Mike K
04-01-2014, 09:20 PM
Waiting 3-4 years to basically halt further loss but not reverse it is pretty miserable news, many of us will be fully bald by then.

Hellouser are you no longer holding ground with RU? Your RU log is very encouraging and I plan to follow your RU user guide when Fin loses effectiveness or if the sides get worse. It seemed you were having excellent results with it from your previous posts. Do you not think you could hold ground with it until CB is commercial in a well researched vehicle?

hellouser
04-01-2014, 09:36 PM
Hellouser are you no longer holding ground with RU? Your RU log is very encouraging and I plan to follow your RU user guide when Fin loses effectiveness or if the sides get worse. It seemed you were having excellent results with it from your previous posts. Do you not think you could hold ground with it until CB is commercial in a well researched vehicle?

Every guy will probably hold ground with CB. It's a direct DHT inhibitor at the follicle level, none of that systemic crap... some guys don't even respond to finasteride (Dan26 for example).

Mike K
04-01-2014, 09:43 PM
Isn't that the benefit of RU though? I'm sorry if this is a stupid question, but what exactly makes this better than RU? Is it stronger or something?

I guess what I mean is, isn't RU supposed to be not systematic? Isn't that why you used it instead of Fin?

hellouser
04-01-2014, 09:48 PM
Isn't that the benefit of RU though? I'm sorry if this is a stupid question, but what exactly makes this better than RU? Is it stronger or something?

I guess what I mean is, isn't RU supposed to be not systematic? Isn't that why you used it instead of Fin?

RU can and for some DOES give the same side effects as Finasteride. CB is more effective without the sides.

Mike K
04-01-2014, 09:54 PM
Ok cool thank you. You mentioned that you were using CB also in your RU usage guide, do you think you saw results from that, was it all the RU, or is it hard to say since you were using them at the same time? Just curious.

strife91
04-01-2014, 09:57 PM
i believe wounding works but needs to be done properly , i have seen a dermarolling thread with amazing results no minox or anything. he went all out though

hellouser
04-01-2014, 10:10 PM
Ok cool thank you. You mentioned that you were using CB also in your RU usage guide, do you think you saw results from that, was it all the RU, or is it hard to say since you were using them at the same time? Just curious.

Didn't see results. Haven't been on CB in about 3 months. I'll be restarting soon.

Mike K
04-01-2014, 10:16 PM
Well that's discouraging. I really hope this CB thing turns out to be everything were hoping for.

hellouser
04-01-2014, 10:19 PM
Well that's discouraging. I really hope this CB thing turns out to be everything were hoping for.

It was the incorrect vehicle anyway, I wouldn't be too discouraged.

Mike K
04-01-2014, 10:24 PM
What vehicle will you be using this time around?

doke
04-02-2014, 02:49 AM
We do not know whether cb is any better than spiro cream 5% as i use this alongside kanes ru premade and minoxidil 15% and getting regrowth forgot to mention the igrow which i will not be without.

HairBane
04-02-2014, 08:06 AM
We do not know whether cb is any better than spiro cream 5% as i use this alongside kanes ru premade and minoxidil 15% and getting regrowth forgot to mention the igrow which i will not be without.

most of us do not use spiro because we dont want to turn into women cb is supposed to have no side effects yet be as effective if not more effective than all of the current anti androgens which are guaranteed to go systemic and **** you up and make you grow tits we want cb so we can maintain our hair whilst still being men

efedrez
04-02-2014, 09:19 AM
RU can and for some DOES give the same side effects as Finasteride. CB is more effective without the sides.

I'm considering RU since fin is giving me sides but since your are mentioning that RU can give you the same sides, I'm curious about why did you decided to go with RU, which is still an experimental drug and much more complicated to mix than simply taking fin

doke
04-02-2014, 09:34 AM
spiro 5% cream has never caused me any problems oral may but its been out a long time for acne as well.

Mike K
04-02-2014, 10:51 AM
i believe wounding works but needs to be done properly , i have seen a dermarolling thread with amazing results no minox or anything. he went all out though

Any chance you could tell me where I could find this thread? I know that we can't post links but maybe which site and what user it was so I can go there and search? I'd like to see it if possible.

We do not know whether cb is any better than spiro cream 5% as i use this alongside kanes ru premade and minoxidil 15% and getting regrowth forgot to mention the igrow which i will not be without.

That's a lot of stuff. Do you have any pics of your progress? Also, where do you get 15% minox? Dr. Klein?

most of us do not use spiro because we dont want to turn into women cb is supposed to have no side effects yet be as effective if not more effective than all of the current anti androgens which are guaranteed to go systemic and **** you up and make you grow tits we want cb so we can maintain our hair whilst still being men

This is what is stopping me from adding spiro topical or oral. I'm all for lowering DHT but I don't like the idea of lowering test entirely. Plus I heard it smells bad.

doke
04-02-2014, 11:02 AM
Any chance you could tell me where I could find this thread? I know that we can't post links but maybe which site and what user it was so I can go there and search? I'd like to see it if possible.


That's a lot of stuff. Do you have any pics of your progress? Also, where do you get 15% minox? Dr. Klein?


This is what is stopping me from adding spiro topical or oral. I'm all for lowering DHT but I don't like the idea of lowering test entirely. Plus I heard it smells bad.

hi i use dualgen 15% sensitive formula.

simba
04-02-2014, 03:19 PM
I'm considering RU since fin is giving me sides but since your are mentioning that RU can give you the same sides, I'm curious about why did you decided to go with RU, which is still an experimental drug and much more complicated to mix than simply taking fin

Using fin at 0.25mg ed killed my penis within 10 days (went totally back to normal 3-4 days after stopping).

Ive been at 1ml RU @5% ed for 3 months now (and one year of minox) with decent results and no sides at all. I really need to make a log of it.

burtandernie
04-02-2014, 07:46 PM
Im curious to just see some studies or results on CB long term how it does in terms of preventing or stopping MPB or maybe how it does in the front verses the crap we have now where even propecia fails at the front. Is the sensitivity at the front and temples like a mature hairline from T or the DHT left over from propecia? CB might provide the answers. If its side free and ends up working well and gets finished its a dream product for sure at least as big as propecia was.

lilpauly
04-02-2014, 07:50 PM
Im curious to just see some studies or results on CB long term how it does in terms of preventing or stopping MPB or maybe how it does in the front verses the crap we have now where even propecia fails at the front. Is the sensitivity at the front and temples like a mature hairline from T or the DHT left over from propecia? CB might provide the answers.

Who says propecia doesnt work on front ? Who says Minox doesn't work on hairlines? I suggest u look at the studies again it was NEVER tested on the hairlines . Also all the information you are asking has been presented in countless Cosmo presentations

kobefan234
04-02-2014, 10:55 PM
spiro 5% cream has never caused me any problems oral may but its been out a long time for acne as well.

do you use this product ?

http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc481/alexiqbal/431E5D5D-868B-4D83-B1F6-8308FE381928-1397-000000F359958451_zps5abb2576.jpg (http://s1214.photobucket.com/user/alexiqbal/media/431E5D5D-868B-4D83-B1F6-8308FE381928-1397-000000F359958451_zps5abb2576.jpg.html)

burtandernie
04-03-2014, 04:30 PM
Who says propecia doesnt work on front ? Who says Minox doesn't work on hairlines? I suggest u look at the studies again it was NEVER tested on the hairlines . Also all the information you are asking has been presented in countless Cosmo presentations

Propecia does have studies on the front showing it works, but it doesnt work as well there as it does in other places. Many men still get mature hairlines even on propecia or get some slight recession over many years on propecia. So why that difference or why do some men continue losing hair even on propecia when it doesnt work? CB might have answers there.
There are more studies to be done on CB or it would be approved already it seems.