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cichlidfort
12-13-2013, 05:04 PM
Here's a simple rule of thumb- no pain, no gain. You better bleed and your scalp better be red otherwise you're NOT doing it properly. Also, doing it once a month is not enough.

awesome1
12-13-2013, 05:13 PM
On what basis? Thumbing around skin care forums people scoff at people doing treatments more than once a month, purporting that it is far too often for collagen induction to work effectively. I'm not saying neither of us are without burdens of proof, but when you make claims like that, what is the basis?

Hicks
12-13-2013, 05:30 PM
Has anyone experienced a dulling DR? I wonder what the life expectancy is of a DR.

chimera
12-13-2013, 08:22 PM
Got my roller almost 2 months ago, have been decreasing frequency to once a month of treatments based on the healing process timeline and recommendations from forums where people have been using it for skin care. The only other major thing in my regiment is 1% keto (and daily vitamins and ginko biloba), I'm not sure if I've seen regrowth yet or if they're broken hairs, I'm also noticing many vellus hairs where the hair is thin enough to spot em, but I'm not sure if that's a new development. I've been on keto shampoo 3 months now.

I'm cautiously optimistic, whats frustrating is my thinning crown is far back enough I have difficulties gauging how bad it really looks most the time.

I don't know. Yeah, guys using the dermaroller say you should not use it more than once a month... but we don't know if that is enough for us... remember, all those people use the dermaroller as a therapy for the induction of new collagen... welll, we don't. We do it because of the growth factors released during wounding... waiting a month may very well be enough for those who are just waiting to heal... as all those on skin-care therapy... but is the promotion of the factors asociated with wounding once a month enough for us?

chimera
12-13-2013, 08:29 PM
I have medium length hair (for a guy anyway) and it's difficult getting the top of my scalp done with a 540 roller, dunno if it'd be any easier with a 192 roller, I get some bleeding, but most of it is on the temples, where it's easier to get the roller. Kinda tough if I'm getting it on the crown, but I'm definitely super sensitive across the scalp the next few days so I imagine I'm doing fine. I definitely break a lot of hairs with it every roll, another reason I've reduced frequency of rolls. (It's also made me confused whether I see real regrowth or just broken hairs now)

I hope I'm still getting my scalp sufficiently, my crown is what worries me most. I'm tempted to spend a little more on a 192 but am not sure if it will be a dramatic enough difference. Anyone used both kinds and have noticed much difference? People say the 540 causes the "bed of needles" effect but I haven't heard that from anyone who's actually reported to try both.

I can feel it sink into the flesh on my temples (god it's weird), but don't get the same sensation at the crown, where there's more hair in the way.

Everyone complaining about tangled and broken hairs is on 540 neddles... go to 192, it won't mess with your hair... well, it will, but it will be much less than the 540...

chimera
12-13-2013, 08:55 PM
I been rolling once every two weeks. this is working for me, no doubt about it. As I said before, my results are completely pathetic... very small hairs... but they are everywhere on my hairline... an I bet my whole scalp is the same (but I still have too much hair to see it there)... this hairs are so, so small, but they were not there, and I have been using minox for two years... so I know this is the dermaroller in action... I don't really think this hairs will be as long and wide as normal hair, and if they do, I'm sure it will take a a lot of hair cycles before that happens (if it happens at all)... if they keep growing at the same rate... it will probable take a couple of years...

Anyway, I don't really care about those small hairs... I care about the hair on my scalp which is still in good shape... If the dermaroller is giving me all these small new hairs everywhere, I'm sure it must be doing something for my existing hair too.. and that's what I want... to save what I still got...

I stopped rolling for more than a month... I just got lazy... but I'm going at it again starting january first at full force... I'm going to do it for a full year...

Yeah guys... this is paifully slow... even if the study said so, don't mind if you don't see any results at the three month mark, in fact, you probably won't... but got to keep rolling...

saintsfan92344
12-14-2013, 08:40 AM
I don't know. Yeah, guys using the dermaroller say you should not use it more than once a month... but we don't know if that is enough for us... remember, all those people use the dermaroller as a therapy for the induction of new collagen... welll, we don't. We do it because of the growth factors released during wounding... waiting a month may very well be enough for those who are just waiting to heal... as all those on skin-care therapy... but is the promotion of the factors asociated with wounding once a month enough for us?

As far as length of time between rolls, no one knows what is best yet, I have been doing it 1x a week for 6 weeks till bloody, this last week my head where I roll itched so bad for the whole week, I was going nuts. it wasn't a shed itch either, if it was and I shed that bad I wouldn't have any hair left. I may wait 10 days between rolls, maybe I wasn't giving it enough time to heal

inbrugge
12-15-2013, 11:10 PM
Quick question.

Why go with 1.5 mm? If deeper is better, I can handle 2.5 mm.

BTW, I did my first dermaroll last week. I liked it. Even though I drew no blood, I think that's ok for the first roll. I will be going in harder next time.

I'm hopeful and looking forward to the next roll. Now if I could begin a Minox treatment, then it's only a matter of finding which route I want to take in terms of DHT blocking. (Too many alternatives).

JulioGP
12-16-2013, 06:06 AM
Hey all my Balding Brothers and Sister

As promised here are my 3 month update photo's which I'm posting for all to gauge the effectiveness of this treatment.

To summarize, I haven't changed anything in my regime from my first posts on page 6-8 of this thread as I didnt want to blur any results by changing techniques. My understanding was the original purpose of this thread by Hellouser was either to replicate the study or undertake a regime with slight variations on the technique. I'm planning to stick with my regime until I see someone yield better results with theirs. In no way am I saying mine was better than the studies, I had just been doing it for 2 months so thought to carry on.

Ive tried to match close ups over various area's of my shiny NW6 head to compare each area individually. Sorry if they are not exactly correctly positioned as these were all taken with an Galaxy SIII but I think they show enough detail.

Would like to hear everyone views on them, whether there has been any progress. Be gentle with your comments please, this is my head after all:o

For those using this technique, please please please keep going, it's only been 1 month since this thread started and the only way we can verify or disprove the study is with multiple cases. Close ups before and during are the only way to see if anything is happening as its VERY slow in my case so please take baseline pictures.

Remember to click ZOOM button twice to get full size, here we go:
Front Start of Treatment
http://s1292.photobucket.com/user/PrettyFly83/media/Derma%20Roller%20and%20Minox/2013-05-20094342_zpsb0ced7ac.jpg.html?sort=3&o=9
Front 3 Months into Treatment:
http://s1292.photobucket.com/user/PrettyFly83/media/Derma%20Roller%20and%20Minox/2013-08-30082555_zpsc1ab2ba5.jpg.html?sort=3&o=1

Top: Start of Treatment
http://s1292.photobucket.com/user/PrettyFly83/media/Derma%20Roller%20and%20Minox/2013-05-14163009_zpsd965f535.jpg.html?sort=3&o=10
Top: 3 Months into Treatment
http://s1292.photobucket.com/user/PrettyFly83/media/Derma%20Roller%20and%20Minox/2013-08-18092448_zps173028a1.jpg.html?sort=3&o=3

Crown: Start of Treatment
http://s1292.photobucket.com/user/PrettyFly83/media/Derma%20Roller%20and%20Minox/2013-05-22092731_zpsb129f54a.jpg.html?sort=3&o=8
Crown: 3 Months into Treatment
http://s1292.photobucket.com/user/PrettyFly83/media/Derma%20Roller%20and%20Minox/2013-08-18092438_zps8252c1b3.jpg.html?sort=3&o=4

Back: Start of Treatment
http://s1292.photobucket.com/user/PrettyFly83/media/Derma%20Roller%20and%20Minox/2013-05-12190720_zpse012e8d8.jpg.html?sort=3&o=11
Back: 3 Months into Treatment
http://s1292.photobucket.com/user/PrettyFly83/media/Derma%20Roller%20and%20Minox/2013-08-18092438_zps8252c1b3.jpg.html?sort=3&o=4

Left Temple: 1 Month into Treatment
http://s1292.photobucket.com/user/PrettyFly83/media/Derma%20Roller%20and%20Minox/2013-06-27193151_zps21f48a7c.jpg.html?sort=3&o=7
Left Temple: 3 Months into Treatment
http://s1292.photobucket.com/user/PrettyFly83/media/Derma%20Roller%20and%20Minox/2013-08-30102218_zps340d03d6.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0

Right Temple: 1 Month into Treatment
http://s1292.photobucket.com/user/PrettyFly83/media/Derma%20Roller%20and%20Minox/2013-06-27193200_zps5db31454.jpg.html?sort=3&o=6
Right Temple: 3 Months into Treatment
http://s1292.photobucket.com/user/PrettyFly83/media/Derma%20Roller%20and%20Minox/2013-08-29130926_zps62c4302c.jpg.html?sort=3&o=2
I only took temple shots at 1 month into treatment.

Sorry its so many.

My view: Regrowth is still happening but more slowly now, I think Im seeing new very fine hairs sprouting from my slick temples but can't be sure as the old photo's go blurry there. Older regrowth seems to be thickening but is VERY slow. There are thousand of black dots just below the skin and I'm hoping those are hairs resting.

Very good results!

JDW
12-16-2013, 10:59 AM
Nice improvement man, definitely hairs sprouting there

JulioGP
12-17-2013, 10:36 AM
I do not know if you should apply these vitamins in the head.

kissmyscalp
12-17-2013, 04:37 PM
You say 0.5 is not fine, but PrettyFly83 use 0.5 and got the best results I've seen.
(sorry for bad english)

Dav7
12-17-2013, 05:28 PM
Where do you buy these and exactly what else is needed? Also any links/ tips on how to work this thing?

chimera
12-17-2013, 06:00 PM
You say 0.5 is not fine, but PrettyFly83 use 0.5 and got the best results I've seen.
(sorry for bad english)

He started on 0.5 but now he is on 1.5 mm...

Dav7
12-17-2013, 06:40 PM
CB!!

Man, if the dermarolling trial is legit and CB proves to be at least half as good as it is on paper, imagine the results when combined!

What is CB?

baldymcgee
12-17-2013, 09:17 PM
I been rolling once every two weeks. this is working for me, no doubt about it. As I said before, my results are completely pathetic... very small hairs... but they are everywhere on my hairline... an I bet my whole scalp is the same (but I still have too much hair to see it there)... this hairs are so, so small, but they were not there, and I have been using minox for two years... so I know this is the dermaroller in action... I don't really think this hairs will be as long and wide as normal hair, and if they do, I'm sure it will take a a lot of hair cycles before that happens (if it happens at all)... if they keep growing at the same rate... it will probable take a couple of years...

Anyway, I don't really care about those small hairs... I care about the hair on my scalp which is still in good shape... If the dermaroller is giving me all these small new hairs everywhere, I'm sure it must be doing something for my existing hair too.. and that's what I want... to save what I still got...

I stopped rolling for more than a month... I just got lazy... but I'm going at it again starting january first at full force... I'm going to do it for a full year...

Yeah guys... this is paifully slow... even if the study said so, don't mind if you don't see any results at the three month mark, in fact, you probably won't... but got to keep rolling...

The study had to be flawed in some way. Correct me if I'm wrong, but not a single person in this "community trial" has seen results anything like in the study.

chimera
12-18-2013, 09:12 AM
The study had to be flawed in some way. Correct me if I'm wrong, but not a single person in this "community trial" has seen results anything like in the study.

But of course it is flawed... in fact, I myself have said so many times through this thread...


Yet... I'm seeing results... far from those the study presented, but still...

JulioGP
12-18-2013, 09:28 AM
Hi Hellouser, congratulations for performing tests that comes with Rolldads.

I have some doubts that use the Dermarolling. You are using only 1 x per week. Once you do use and "hurt" the scalp, apply as a topical solution after that? Because I think that would burn, because most topical products (Minoxidil, for example) have alcohol in their composition.

saintsfan92344
12-18-2013, 10:11 AM
But of course it is flawed... in fact, I myself have said so many times through this thread...


Yet... I'm seeing results... far from those the study presented, but still...

How long have you been rolling, i just did #7. Using minox. Been shedding since the 3rd week but I may be noticing some regrowth in the front and top but temples are thinner. It kind of looks a little more filled in. Waiting to see if it holds or falls out. I buzz with a 1mm.

kissmyscalp
12-18-2013, 10:51 AM
How to:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHTdVOvnBB4

chimera
12-18-2013, 12:41 PM
Hi Hellouser, congratulations for performing tests that comes with Rolldads.

I have some doubts that use the Dermarolling. You are using only 1 x per week. Once you do use and "hurt" the scalp, apply as a topical solution after that? Because I think that would burn, because most topical products (Minoxidil, for example) have alcohol in their composition.

It does not burn... because you are not supposed to use minoxidil the same day you use the dermaroller... (no, we are not using the dermaroller to increase minoxidil absorption)...



How long have you been rolling, i just did #7. Using minox. Been shedding since the 3rd week but I may be noticing some regrowth in the front and top but temples are thinner. It kind of looks a little more filled in. Waiting to see if it holds or falls out. I buzz with a 1mm.

I've been rolling for like four months. I did not see anything unitll like the 14 week or so. I was very disappointed with the study (in fact, I'm still disappointed with it, as according to it, we were supposed to be a ****ing norwood less after just three months) but when I was about to drop out, I started seeing new hairs. But damn!, they are very small, and they grow very slow. Will I get results like those from the study?, I don't know, but if I do, I don't think it will be before 2015...

I did not had any shedd. I never get any shedd from any treatment, not from the dermaroller, not when I started minox years ago, not when I tried anti-androgens in the past.

In the study, it says that the response was sustainable even after 8 months... so, some guys think that the pictures from the study were taken there, at 8 months... there is no real indication of that on the study, so that is probably bullshit... but I think those results at 8 months it's much more credible... at least accord to what I'm observing...

chimera
12-18-2013, 12:43 PM
No, I think it was around the 12 week the first time I was able to see something...

Pentarou
12-18-2013, 01:01 PM
Getting regrowth from the basic Big 3 takes a long time (unless you happen to be a genetic mutant super-responder), this is no different really. I imagine the photographs in the study were of the best/fastest responders to the rollin' treatment.

hellouser
12-18-2013, 01:30 PM
Getting regrowth from the basic Big 3 takes a long time (unless you happen to be a genetic mutant super-responder), this is no different really. I imagine the photographs in the study were of the best/fastest responders to the rollin' treatment.

Definitely, there could have been other (better) cases beyond the 8 months, but thats probably not documented after.

JulioGP
12-18-2013, 03:13 PM
Thanks for the reply Chimera.


I don´t know if anyone here saw, but I found a double blind study that explain it and all thinks about Dermarolling, here:

http://www.ijtrichology.com/article.asp?issn=0974-7753;year=2013;volume=5;issue=1;spage=6;epage=11;a ulast=Dhurat

saintsfan92344
12-18-2013, 03:20 PM
Thanks for the reply Chimera.


I don´t know if anyone here saw, but I found a double blind study that explain it and all thinks about Dermarolling, here:

http://www.ijtrichology.com/article.asp?issn=0974-7753;year=2013;volume=5;issue=1;spage=6;epage=11;a ulast=Dhurat

Thats thee study that started the latest trend in rolling, most of us are modeling our rolling based on that

hellouser
12-18-2013, 03:33 PM
Thanks for the reply Chimera.


I don´t know if anyone here saw, but I found a double blind study that explain it and all thinks about Dermarolling, here:

http://www.ijtrichology.com/article.asp?issn=0974-7753;year=2013;volume=5;issue=1;spage=6;epage=11;a ulast=Dhurat

Um, there's an image from your link on PAGE ONE of this thread.

kissmyscalp
12-18-2013, 03:55 PM
Looks like we can store this experiment in the snake oil category...

hellouser
12-18-2013, 03:57 PM
Looks like we can store this experiment in the snake oil category...

Or not? Go over to other forums and members are getting results. Even if theyre not, dermarolling DOES help with penetration so you may want to continue the practice.

kissmyscalp
12-18-2013, 04:08 PM
I don't know, I find this technique a little barbaric, another treatment to add, it coast time, money...

I do not see enough satisfactory results that pushes me to start.

I'm not sure it's worthwhile to invest.

hellouser
12-18-2013, 04:18 PM
I don't know, I find this technique a little barbaric, another treatment to add, it coast time, money...

I do not see enough satisfactory results that pushes me to start.

I'm not sure it's worthwhile to invest.

Its a $20 device that you use along with Minoxidil which you should be on regardless. Are you saying you can't afford such a simple device?

Time is no excuse, all the garbage treatments we have available take lots of time.

chimera
12-18-2013, 04:35 PM
I don't know, I find this technique a little barbaric, another treatment to add, it coast time, money...


You can find dermarollers from $4 or $5 on Ebay. Yeah, they are cheap, but they get the job done. And 1 dermaroller should last you at least 2 months.

It should not take you more than 20 minutes to dermaroll your scalp (you can do it in way less time than that, if you don't mind the pain). I have been able to do it in just 10 minutes, and that's just because I have long hair, If my hair were shorter it would take me like 5 minutes or less. And you are supposed to use the dermaroller just once a week.

Is $2.5 a month too much money for you?...

Are 15 minutes a week to much time for you?..

But yeah, theres no real way to know right now if the bloody pain is worth it or not...

Anyway, I don't think we will have our definite answer until 2015... I know that sounds awful, but that's just the way it is... or at least that's when I will have absolutely no any doubt left...



... since it seems we will never be able to get our hands on the right CB vehicle, I hope this can buy me at least a little more time...

JulioGP
12-18-2013, 05:33 PM
It really is very cheap. The only concern is the risk of infection or even inflammation, which could be a disaster for the wires that are still alive.

Do not you think? But the idea is tempting.

kissmyscalp
12-18-2013, 06:11 PM
Take care ! Ebay & Amazon are full of fake & non-sterilized dermarollers.

I read some press paper about that.

Look this one:

http://renaissance-essentielle.blogspot.fr/2013/10/dermaroller-une-boutique-en-ligne-sure.html

its in french sorry but you can see the differences in pictures between a true dermaroller and a fake. Fake packaging too.

Maybe some people have bad results because crapy dermarollers.

Otherwise, it is certain that there is no risk of damaging the scalp in long term use?
I know wounding is about damaging the scalp, but I'm talking about irreversible damages?

Pentarou
12-18-2013, 06:52 PM
It really is very cheap. The only concern is the risk of infection or even inflammation, which could be a disaster for the wires that are still alive.
As long as you're sensible, and keep your roller and scalp hygienic before and after, infection shouldn't be an issue. It's a risk, yes, but a risk that one can reduce dramatically through some common sense actions.

I've bought my roller from owndoc.com, incidentally, and it's pretty damn good.

chimera
12-18-2013, 07:11 PM
Otherwise, it is certain that there is no risk of damaging the scalp in long term use?
I know wounding is about damaging the scalp, but I'm talking about irreversible damages?

I'm not concerned about damagin the scalp because of long term use... that is not a problem, dermarollers are safe in that regard...

But I'm concerned about how often we are doing it. We can use the dermaroller for years, but I odon't think we should use the dermaroller "that often" for years.
Shorter needles are not a problem, but 1.5 is never recommended more than once a month...

Hicks
12-18-2013, 07:37 PM
I'm not concerned about damagin the scalp because of long term use... that is not a problem, dermarollers are safe in that regard...

But I'm concerned about how often we are doing it. We can use the dermaroller for years, but I odon't think we should use the dermaroller "that often" for years.
Shorter needles are not a problem, but 1.5 is never recommended more than once a month...

There's nothing that says 1.5 is the right size. 2.5 might be more effective. Yes 1.5 was in the study. Did they try 2 or 2.5? Why 1.5? An educated guessbased on their research. So that's what you do. Research and go with a length and frequency you guesstimate would be the most effective. Then let us know your results.

saintsfan92344
12-18-2013, 07:40 PM
There's nothing that says 1.5 is the right size. 2.5 might be more effective. Yes 1.5 was in the study. Did they try 2 or 2.5? Why 1.5? An educated guessbased on their research. So that's what you do. Research and go with a length and frequency you guesstimate would be the most effective. Then let us know your results.

I 100% agree with you, I just got a 2mm and am going with that for the next several weeks. this is an experiment, we are conducting our own study

chimera
12-18-2013, 07:52 PM
There's nothing that says 1.5 is the right size. 2.5 might be more effective. Yes 1.5 was in the study. Did they try 2 or 2.5? Why 1.5? An educated guessbased on their research. So that's what you do. Research and go with a length and frequency you guesstimate would be the most effective. Then let us know your results.

That's not what I meant at all ... I am not talking about which is the right size for our "experiment", I am not talking about which size would give us the best results. I am talking about the safety. What I am trying to say is that at 1.5 the dermaroller acts different than a 0.2 or 0.5, It not the same kind of damage on the skin, and the response of tissue is also diferent. Going that deep, that often, could be very agressive for the skin on athe long term.

But yeah... it is truem that is just a guess. There's a lot of info saying it is safe, and there's a lot of info saying it is not... so, who knows?

JulioGP
12-19-2013, 03:43 AM
Guys, now answer me one thing:

Using the example of dermaroller that came to be discussed here in the forum (since 2006 has heard from him in this space and nothing proved in favor), a "job" posted here shows a very favorable statistics in numeric prism.

Why then in practice it does not become routine and bald all the world, or at least a 66.45% return to get hairy? Why in dermatology clinics or trichology is not routine?

Chromeo
12-19-2013, 06:52 AM
I don't know, I find this technique a little barbaric, another treatment to add, it coast time, money...

I do not see enough satisfactory results that pushes me to start.

I'm not sure it's worthwhile to invest.

Invest a few more years in balding, then. :D

Chromeo
12-19-2013, 06:54 AM
Remember guys, the "after" pictures were not taken after 3 months, so don't get your knickers in a twist when you don't have a full head of hair after 12 weeks. Be realistic and stick with it.

Man up & roll on.

Hicks
12-19-2013, 07:25 AM
That's not what I meant at all ... I am not talking about which is the right size for our "experiment", I am not talking about which size would give us the best results. I am talking about the safety. What I am trying to say is that at 1.5 the dermaroller acts different than a 0.2 or 0.5, It not the same kind of damage on the skin, and the response of tissue is also diferent. Going that deep, that often, could be very agressive for the skin on athe long term.

But yeah... it is truem that is just a guess. There's a lot of info saying it is safe, and there's a lot of info saying it is not... so, who knows?

I think we're on the same page I just can't explain myself. Yeah I DR every week for about 6 weeks now I go once every 3 weeks. However I do use a massage ball about 2-3 times a week. I'm all about breaking up scar tissue. Might not get as deep as a DR but that's my experiment. Google Graston Technique. I also use Coconut oil for the healing properties and conditioner. Even though we still might have follicles that do not grow I find it extremely difficult to think we could or anyone could bring them back to life (It's like a dead arm or foot coming back to life). Maybe minianturized hair might stand a chance to become normal hair or dormant hair to activate growth sooner? Again my experiment is all about breaking scar tissue and increaseing blood flow to the area by moderate wounding. I'm on the Big 3, this is my one year mark so my results on DR might not be accurate compared to others.

chimera
12-19-2013, 08:28 AM
Guys, now answer me one thing:

Using the example of dermaroller that came to be discussed here in the forum (since 2006 has heard from him in this space and nothing proved in favor), a "job" posted here shows a very favorable statistics in numeric prism.

Why then in practice it does not become routine and bald all the world, or at least a 66.45% return to get hairy? Why in dermatology clinics or trichology is not routine?

Well... the only thing I can think of is that... yes, the dermaroller has been used for years. But needles of this size have almost never been used before. And not this often. Dermarollers have been used to increase absorption, but not like this.

JulioGP
12-19-2013, 10:26 AM
Not sure that Chimera. I see on the internet studies and reports on forums almost 10 years ago.

I think it was a discovery of the century, we would have several hairy people around the world.

I hope it works this trial here, but I think I've seen this "movie" before.

JulioGP
12-19-2013, 11:31 AM
Hellouser,

As it was you who started this topic, I would like to know if you have photos of your BEFORE and AFTER.

I saw that you are applying the Dermarolling for several months now, but have not seen your photos with the results, just other users.

Do you have?

hellouser
12-19-2013, 11:33 AM
Hellouser,

As it was you who started this topic, I would like to know if you have photos of your BEFORE and AFTER.

I saw that you are applying the Dermarolling for several months now, but have not seen your photos with the results, just other users.

Do you have?

I haven't taken any photos. I don't feel that I've made enough progress to share any pictures.

kissmyscalp
12-19-2013, 11:54 AM
Invest a few more years in balding, then. :D

Ok, show me your awesome results, I'm curious!

JulioGP
12-19-2013, 12:08 PM
I haven't taken any photos. I don't feel that I've made enough progress to share any pictures.

Thanks for the reply.

How long you've been doing applications Dermarolling? Makes 5 months that this Trial was created.

You do not feel any significant improvement? Nothing at all?

I searched all over 200 pages for the results, but I think we still have a lot of people who started the trial and has not shared the results.

I hope that soon the staff can give that feedback.

Julian P
12-19-2013, 12:21 PM
Thanks for the reply.

I searched all over 200 pages for the results, but I think we still have a lot of people who started the trial and has not shared the results.

I hope that soon the staff can give that feedback.

This thread was posted originally to share results, but it got quiet over there. I guess it got lost because it's a results-only thread, and doesn't get a lot of posts because of that.
http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showthread.php?t=14317
Results from Knockin on NW4 look good, and those from medion1 as well (clear results for being 8 weeks in, but nothing spectacular).
Some pretty good results were posted somewhere in this forum, but I'm not going to spend my whole evening searching for them.

JulioGP
12-19-2013, 03:14 PM
This thread was posted originally to share results, but it got quiet over there. I guess it got lost because it's a results-only thread, and doesn't get a lot of posts because of that.
http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showthread.php?t=14317
Results from Knockin on NW4 look good, and those from medion1 as well (clear results for being 8 weeks in, but nothing spectacular).
Some pretty good results were posted somewhere in this forum, but I'm not going to spend my whole evening searching for them.

friend

I even accessed this link, but I don´t saw so many results. It seems that a lot more people started this trial, but only saw some bloody heads. 1 or 2 positive feedbacks.

saintsfan92344
12-19-2013, 03:21 PM
Thanks for the reply.

How long you've been doing applications Dermarolling? Makes 5 months that this Trial was created.

You do not feel any significant improvement? Nothing at all?

I searched all over 200 pages for the results, but I think we still have a lot of people who started the trial and has not shared the results.

I hope that soon the staff can give that feedback.

I have been rolling for 7 weeks, minox for 8, really not enough time to see much increase, i started shedding at 3 weeks and seem to have a shed aprox 4 days post roll, had crazy itching last week, not this week so far. Several guys have stated they started seeing results around 6-7 rolls so i am hoping ij the next couple i may see something.
One observation is a lot of guys have a lot of flaking skin that are having results, i really dont have that, I think I roll pretty hard and draw blood as seen in the pic i posted so I am wondering why.
Recently got a 2mm roller for sundays roll, my thinking is maybe i have a thicker scalp? and am not getting in enough even though i bleed. We are conducting an experiment so I might as well go for it

inbrugge
12-19-2013, 09:33 PM
Just did my 2nd roll this Tuesday. Currently, this is the only treatment I'm administering aside from Regenepure (Nizoral) Shampo.

I was thinking about waiting 2 werks between each roll, but I got impatient and ready to go another round. Especially after the fact that I went pretty easy on my scalp the 1st round.

This round I pressed harder. It really hurt, but I pushed through it. I don't think I drew blood, but my scalp was red all over. The pain doesn't last, but my scalp did feel a bit sore in the upcoming day.

Also, I've had an increase in shedding afterwards. It seems to stabilize a little now, but for the past 2 days my hair has felt quite weak and I'm losing an increased amount of strands in the shower (seems to be fine during the day, but elevated in the shower). Could be other factors, but could also be dermarolling related.

I can't tell if this is a bad shedding, or the minox type of shedding where the strands are converting phases.

Anyone have any idea about the shedding?

chimera
12-19-2013, 10:19 PM
Just did my 2nd roll this Tuesday. Currently, this is the only treatment I'm administering aside from Regenepure (Nizoral) Shampo.


You mean you are not using minoxidil?, because we don't know if this treatment will work without minoxidil...

saintsfan92344
12-20-2013, 12:54 AM
I always shed 4 days after, at least the last 3 times, I bleed a good amount though

JulioGP
12-20-2013, 01:55 AM
Do not remember reading any statement claiming shedding here.

Chimera, from what I read in the studies, the treatment with Dermarolling was to work even without using Minoxidil, with only folicogênese.

I see the staff claim that bleeds a lot.
A doubt. How long are the wounds in the head?

You can leave home for work the next day after using the Dermarolling, or everyone will come ask why I'm mutilating myself?

The wounds are visible even after you stop bleeding?

chimera
12-20-2013, 04:28 AM
Do not remember reading any statement claiming shedding here.

Chimera, from what I read in the studies, the treatment with Dermarolling was to work even without using Minoxidil, with only folicogênese.

I see the staff claim that bleeds a lot.
A doubt. How long are the wounds in the head?

You can leave home for work the next day after using the Dermarolling, or everyone will come ask why I'm mutilating myself?

The wounds are visible even after you stop bleeding?

Wounding without minoxidil was tried decades ago. They failed to get more thatn just vellus hair.

chimera
12-20-2013, 05:49 AM
You can leave home for work the next day after using the Dermarolling, or everyone will come ask why I'm mutilating myself?

The wounds are visible even after you stop bleeding?

Wounds are not noticeable the day after, but if you go very hard like me, the redness can be seen still three days after... and yeah people my notice that redness.

But if you don't go crazy, redness will dissapear after a day or so. (I just go harder because I do it every two weeks instead of every week)

Atum
12-20-2013, 09:56 AM
Wounds are not noticeable the day after, but if you go very hard like me, the redness can be seen still three days after... and yeah people my notice that redness.

But if you don't go crazy, redness will dissapear after a day or so. (I just go harder because I do it every two weeks instead of every week)

With me you could see the red dots where the needles penetrated my head. Maybe that's because i smoke that it doesn't heal as fast, but on the other hand i don't smoke that much.

kissmyscalp
12-21-2013, 02:30 AM
What you put on the scalp after your session? Anything in particular like Betadine? Water?

saintsfan92344
12-21-2013, 01:16 PM
I just do a quick wipe with alcohol, then I add minox right after

juliogp I definitely shed from this treatment whether from the minox or shockloss from the rolling

kissmyscalp
12-21-2013, 01:21 PM
Minox right after? its dangerous man. You can have a heart attack. A doctor said that.

JulioGP
12-21-2013, 01:36 PM
My friends,

I searched on the internet about the news of the Dermarolling being reported in some major scientific journal and found nothing. Someone already found it by chance in scientific communication vehicles? Indeed it seems that there are only studies the creator of the method itself, but nothing scientific. I'm not trying to ask anything, but everyone would feel safer if it had been scientifically reported, no?

Dav7
12-21-2013, 03:12 PM
I have a quick question, are you putting yourself at serious risk of infection with a dermaroller than size been used to often? Also, there would be no medical supervision or doctors etc. who know exactly how to clean the rollers?

Also, could it be that the reason dermarollers were never advertised alongside Rogaine because it could be dangerous and you could be risking infections or side effects from too much rogaine entering the body?

chimera
12-21-2013, 03:35 PM
I have a quick question, are you putting yourself at serious risk of infection with a dermaroller than size been used to often? Also, there would be no medical supervision or doctors etc. who know exactly how to clean the rollers?

Also, could it be that the reason dermarollers were never advertised alongside Rogaine because it could be dangerous and you could be risking infections or side effects from too much rogaine entering the body?

Probably yes to everything you say. Anyway, I've been almost five months at this and I'm fine, I have not had any trouble... and I think it's enough time for the side effects due to increased absorption to appear, and they did not... and even if I get an infection or something... well, that's not a problem, getting an infection treated is routine work for any health professional...

chimera
12-21-2013, 03:38 PM
My friends,

I searched on the internet about the news of the Dermarolling being reported in some major scientific journal and found nothing. Someone already found it by chance in scientific communication vehicles? Indeed it seems that there are only studies the creator of the method itself, but nothing scientific. I'm not trying to ask anything, but everyone would feel safer if it had been scientifically reported, no?

I se you have been searching for a lot of info which I'm sure you ain't going to find, unfurtunately. And you are indeed right for doing so. With so many doubts which there's just no way to answer yet, I don't think you should use the dermaroller, not until a couple of months, to see if any of this lead us nowhere...

saintsfan92344
12-21-2013, 04:03 PM
I have no issues but I only use half dose, I think prettyfly uses it right after and his results speak for itself

saintsfan92344
12-21-2013, 04:05 PM
Minox right after? its dangerous man. You can have a heart attack. A doctor said that.
no issues

JulioGP
12-21-2013, 05:48 PM
I se you have been searching for a lot of info which I'm sure you ain't going to find, unfurtunately. And you are indeed right for doing so. With so many doubts which there's just no way to answer yet, I don't think you should use the dermaroller, not until a couple of months, to see if any of this lead us nowhere...

That's exactly what I'll do, because so far I think are few scientifically conclusions.

I prescribe a lot, because this type of procedure can cause inflammation of the scalp, take a look at this link:


ATTENTION: ONLY recommend LOOK WHO HAS STOMACH!
http://www.issoebizarro.com/blog/doencas-anomalias/celulite-dissecante-couro-cabeludo/

kissmyscalp
12-21-2013, 06:01 PM
OH MY ***** GOD! :eek:

SO HARD! But nice find! LOL

I don't play the youtube movie, pics are enought!

Ok the name of the disease is "dissecting cellulitis of the scalp". So freaking!

I bought a Dermaroller, I think he will stay in his box! :(

Dav7
12-21-2013, 09:10 PM
Out of curiosity, is anybody trying this also contemplating a hair transplant? Would dermarolling be a bad idea before getting a HT, I have a suspicion that it might be.

FearTheLoss
12-21-2013, 10:51 PM
That's exactly what I'll do, because so far I think are few scientifically conclusions.

I prescribe a lot, because this type of procedure can cause inflammation of the scalp, take a look at this link:


ATTENTION: ONLY recommend LOOK WHO HAS STOMACH!
http://www.issoebizarro.com/blog/doencas-anomalias/celulite-dissecante-couro-cabeludo/


oh my god, this is actually from derma rolling?

LevonHelms
12-21-2013, 11:17 PM
What a bunch of weiners. :rolleyes:

hellouser
12-21-2013, 11:29 PM
oh my god, this is actually from derma rolling?

Translating the page to English, it looks as if the guy had a very badly infected scalp caused by follicles doing something (more or less, cant remember, translation was off too).

Thats definitely not from dermarolling though, it was something else.

JulioGP
12-22-2013, 07:08 AM
oh my god, this is actually from derma rolling?

Not necessarily. It is basically an inflammation or infection caused by bacteria, which will gradually spreading. At the most, it is a serious disease, and painful too early.

Guys, be careful with this procedure with Dermarolling! Do proper aseptic!

iwannakeephair1674
12-22-2013, 09:55 AM
Those are some seriously frightening pictures! However in over 3 years of dermarolling my scalp at about ever one and a half weeks I have had no problems.

I normally let the dermaroller soak in peroxide for over an hour and then put it under the steaming hot faucet right before I use it. But to be extra careful I will add alcohol to the mix for my own ease of mind....bc again, those pictures are freaky!

I'm a believer in the dermaroller but do wonder if there are long term side effects, but these 3 and a half years have been fine with no issues and what I consider good results.

I have used a 1mm during that time and recently started using a 1.5mm. Im also on fin, keto 2%, lasercomb, prp yearly, however, ive been doing that well before starting dermaroller.

JulioGP
12-22-2013, 11:07 AM
Those are some seriously frightening pictures! However in over 3 years of dermarolling my scalp at about ever one and a half weeks I have had no problems.

I normally let the dermaroller soak in peroxide for over an hour and then put it under the steaming hot faucet right before I use it. But to be extra careful I will add alcohol to the mix for my own ease of mind....bc again, those pictures are freaky!

I'm a believer in the dermaroller but do wonder if there are long term side effects, but these 3 and a half years have been fine with no issues and what I consider good results.

I have used a 1mm during that time and recently started using a 1.5mm. Im also on fin, keto 2%, lasercomb, prp yearly, however, ive been doing that well before starting dermaroller.

Over 3 years?

Do you have photos of before and after, to see the results? It really is too long!

saintsfan92344
12-22-2013, 11:15 AM
Over 3 years?

Do you have photos of before and after, to see the results? It really is too long!


How do you know, no one does, if he is fine after 3 years then apparently its not too long! not attacking you Julio but we are experimenting

kissmyscalp
12-22-2013, 12:05 PM
It is possible to have a staph infection with a dermaroller (mine is 0.75 longer)?

I want to try this with Minox and Kéto cream.

hellouser
12-22-2013, 12:08 PM
The dude in those photos had cellulitis. Its caused by an infection. Here's more info on that:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cellulitis#Causes

If you're going to dermaroll, make sure to keep your rollers as clean as possible. I rinse mine with hot water and use an old toothbrush to get rid of dried up blood from the roller, then leave it in isopropanol 99% overnight.

iwannakeephair1674
12-22-2013, 12:31 PM
Over 3 years?

Do you have photos of before and after, to see the results? It really is too long!

Unfortunately I don't have good before pictures since this was before the forum trial and was doing it for me. However, I am genuinely curious as to why you think 3 years is to long? I'm afraid if I stop I would lose my good results.

I understand totally if you're skeptical of my results without proof, but all I can do is tell youit has helped greatly in my hairline. I've seen it turn a lot of hairs from vellus, but again this could be from my combo of other treatments including PRP with Dr. Greco.

JulioGP
12-22-2013, 01:02 PM
Friends , I believe the results of you, even without photos .

Too bad not everyone posted photos to make better monitoring, but I'm sure the fact just looking if there was significant improvement after a few months , you can already notice .

I think three years , is a significant time. In fact , I've used almost all topical products that are on the market . I was making the selection of what worked best for me . Today I know that if something does not work well in 4 months , I can leave for another treatment . In my opinion, no point in insisting on a very treatment that shows no improvement in 4 months .

Maybe that treatment with Dermarolling need a little more time, between 6 months and 1 year . But if there is any improvement in that time , I think it is better to try another treatment , because this is a much more aggressive treatment .

We are all in this fight , until something that really works arise .

Good luck to you , I'll keep watching the topic.

Hugs .

saintsfan92344
12-23-2013, 07:03 PM
It is possible to have a staph infection with a dermaroller (mine is 0.75 longer)?

I want to try this with Minox and Kéto cream.

A staph infection is a possibility with any open wound so it goes without saying to be as sterile as possible, in 8 weeks I have gone thru 1.5 bottles of iso alcohol, I wipe my scalp with it, soak my roller before after and during rolling. I almost had my knee amputated from a MRSA staph infection its no joke, it started with a sliver of metal in my knee the size of a small splinter


The dude in those photos had cellulitis. Its caused by an infection. Here's more info on that:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cellulitis#Causes

If you're going to dermaroll, make sure to keep your rollers as clean as possible. I rinse mine with hot water and use an old toothbrush to get rid of dried up blood from the roller, then leave it in isopropanol 99% overnight.

That was some scary a$$ pics huh

jasong1
12-24-2013, 05:06 PM
Wounding without minoxidil was tried decades ago. They failed to get more thatn just vellus hair.

Don't listen to this guy chimera, if that's the case people with wounds would not grow NEW normal looking hair post surgery. Also where is his trial that was tried decades ago? Minoxidil may not be needed so if you want to go that route than try it, don't listen to people so quick to promote drugs.

chimera
12-24-2013, 05:18 PM
Don't listen to this guy chimera, if that's the case people with wounds would not grow NEW normal looking hair post surgery. Also where is his trial that was tried decades ago? Minoxidil may not be needed so if you want to go that route than try it, don't listen to people so quick to promote drugs.

The thing is, wounding may produce new hair, but the level of wounding we are doing with the dermaroller is not enough...

also:

http://www.nature.com/jid/journal/v27/n1/full/jid195671a.html


That's the study I was talking about...


Also, I am not promoting drugs... I don't like them, and I wish we could stop hair loss without them, but I don't know if that's possible...

jasong1
12-24-2013, 05:32 PM
That study analysed 4 people between 1 week till 2 months also by freezing so should not get that conclusion. Also this study was about removing vellus hairs to see if they would regenerate and they did, normal hairs were not supposed to grow on that part of the face as well, only sparse.

kissmyscalp
12-26-2013, 04:06 AM
Guys, it is safe to use hair fibers after dermarolling?

kissmyscalp
12-26-2013, 04:13 AM
Guys, it is safe to use hair fibers after dermarolling?

saintsfan92344
12-26-2013, 06:07 PM
Guys, it is safe to use hair fibers after dermarolling?

Don't see why not, but to be on the safe side I would wait an hour till the holes close

Pate
12-27-2013, 02:36 AM
Here's my two-month update.

I saw my mother last week and she asked if I'd dyed my hair! She said it looked darker. I told her I haven't but explained about the dermaroller/minox combination. She said it was definitely looking thicker.

So I'll take that as a win. My hair is normally a No. 1 blade so it doesn't take long for any changes to grow through.

On the hairline there are definitely a bunch of fine but pigmented hairs growing through, several dozen on each temple. Too fine to be of any cosmetic significance. It will be interesting to see what happens when these hairs cycle, whether they come back thicker or stay fine.

JulioGP
12-27-2013, 03:29 AM
Here's my two-month update.

I saw my mother last week and she asked if I'd dyed my hair! She said it looked darker. I told her I haven't but explained about the dermaroller/minox combination. She said it was definitely looking thicker.

So I'll take that as a win. My hair is normally a No. 1 blade so it doesn't take long for any changes to grow through.

On the hairline there are definitely a bunch of fine but pigmented hairs growing through, several dozen on each temple. Too fine to be of any cosmetic significance. It will be interesting to see what happens when these hairs cycle, whether they come back thicker or stay fine.

Do you have photos?

Chromeo
12-27-2013, 08:41 AM
Friends , I believe the results of you, even without photos .

Too bad not everyone posted photos to make better monitoring, but I'm sure the fact just looking if there was significant improvement after a few months , you can already notice .

I think three years , is a significant time. In fact , I've used almost all topical products that are on the market . I was making the selection of what worked best for me . Today I know that if something does not work well in 4 months , I can leave for another treatment . In my opinion, no point in insisting on a very treatment that shows no improvement in 4 months .

Maybe that treatment with Dermarolling need a little more time, between 6 months and 1 year . But if there is any improvement in that time , I think it is better to try another treatment , because this is a much more aggressive treatment .

We are all in this fight , until something that really works arise .

Good luck to you , I'll keep watching the topic.

Hugs .

Wrong wrong wrong. The whole "4 months" thing is silly, many treatments take between 8 months & 1 year to really kick in. You may have found something that would work for you, but jumped off the treatment at 4 months due to impatience. Very typical of the desperation of hairloss sufferers, always looking for the overnight fix.

And how is 3 years too long to be dermarolling? You're not one of these cranks who thinks you can only do 12 weeks because a study only lasted 12 weeks, are you? If this works, we could well be rolling for life, perhaps at a reduced frequency. If it works I ain't getting off it because somebody who doesn't stick with any treatment more than "4 months" says it's "too long".

Come on, wisen up, people.

bigentries
12-27-2013, 09:08 AM
Wrong wrong wrong. The whole "4 months" thing is silly, many treatments take between 8 months & 1 year to really kick in. You may have found something that would work for you, but jumped off the treatment at 4 months due to impatience. Very typical of the desperation of hairloss sufferers, always looking for the overnight fix.

And how is 3 years too long to be dermarolling? You're not one of these cranks who thinks you can only do 12 weeks because a study only lasted 12 weeks, are you? If this works, we could well be rolling for life, perhaps at a reduced frequency. If it works I ain't getting off it because somebody who doesn't stick with any treatment more than "4 months" says it's "too long".

Come on, wisen up, people.

If the study showed amazing results in at least 80% of the subjects, 12 weeks is enough, the whole point of studies is that they are reproducible, otherwise something is wrong, and many people just don't want to admit it.

This sunday is my last dermarolling session, I lasted around 20 weeks and haven't seen anything worth to comment about.

If you people are right, then in another 4 months I will magically get the results from the photos in this study.

Pentarou
12-27-2013, 09:18 AM
Pate, I've had exactly the same experience! My mother commented how much darker my hair had gotten recently. Otherwise, small non-cosmetically-significant hairs are sprouting in key areas.

Atum
12-27-2013, 09:29 AM
Do you guys shave your head with a trimmer before dermarolling? Cause i used pull my hair out with the derma roller.

Chromeo
12-27-2013, 09:37 AM
If the study showed amazing results in at least 80% of the subjects, 12 weeks is enough, the whole point of studies is that they are reproducible, otherwise something is wrong, and many people just don't want to admit it.

This sunday is my last dermarolling session, I lasted around 20 weeks and haven't seen anything worth to comment about.

If you people are right, then in another 4 months I will magically get the results from the photos in this study.

Sounds to me like you just don't have the stomach to keep up with this, but good luck to you dude.

Chromeo
12-27-2013, 09:41 AM
Do you guys shave your head with a trimmer before dermarolling? Cause i used pull my hair out with the derma roller.

I keep mine shaved so I don't have this issue. Also, it's easier to see the new hair coming through when the hair is shorter.

fred970
12-27-2013, 10:10 AM
I'm dermarolling myself, but the hype about it on the forum has become crazy.

It seems that some sufferers will defend it to the death even if no one gets substantial results.

saintsfan92344
12-27-2013, 10:21 AM
Do you guys shave your head with a trimmer before dermarolling? Cause i used pull my hair out with the derma roller.

I buzz mine to a 1 and still cut/pull hair

Fred I agree with you on the hype, this like other treatments will work great on some not at all on others, its not a miracle cure but I am giving it a good shot and am hoping I am one of the lucky ones

Chromeo
12-27-2013, 10:23 AM
I'm dermarolling myself, but the hype about it on the forum has become crazy.

It seems that some sufferers will defend it to the death even if no one gets substantial results.

Yes, it is a bit much. But stick with it, it's the only way to know.

chimera
12-27-2013, 10:50 AM
Have any of you guys seen the dermaroller thread at ***...?

Damn... I remember that used to be the dermaroller thread...

But now it has become a deranged den of psychos and fanatics... it's just sad.

fred970
12-27-2013, 11:20 AM
Glad I'm not the only one who noticed that about the *** forum.

saintsfan92344
12-27-2013, 11:27 AM
Have any of you guys seen the dermaroller thread at ***...?

Damn... I remember that used to be the dermaroller thread...

But now it has become a deranged den of psychos and fanatics... it's just sad.


Yes there are a lot of fanatics over there a lot of good info also, if you do happen to mention anything negative god help you
one of the fanatics/ quacks that used to be there may have gotten chased off recently hopefully, although I did get some enjoyment in messing with him a little

hellouser
12-27-2013, 11:56 AM
Yes there are a lot of fanatics over there a lot of good info also, if you do happen to mention anything negative god help you
one of the fanatics/ quacks that used to be there may have gotten chased off recently hopefully, although I did get some enjoyment in messing with him a little

Its really just ONE guy thats the fanatic at ***; squeegee. The dude insults everyone and anyone that says something that goes against his theories/opinions. The amount of bullshit he posts is overwhelming and is the #1 reason why that thread gets derailed. Everyone else is normal. Though he does post relevant stuff as well.

chimera
12-27-2013, 12:03 PM
Its really just ONE guy thats the fanatic at ***; squeegee. The dude insults everyone and anyone that says something that goes against his theories/opinions. The amount of bullshit he posts is overwhelming and is the #1 reason why that thread gets derailed. Everyone else is normal. Though he does post relevant stuff as well.

You are completely right. From time to time he may post important information. But his personality is completely toxic, and it has spread to some of the other guys as well. That guy just does not allow any kind of debate.

bigentries
12-27-2013, 12:06 PM
Sounds to me like you just don't have the stomach to keep up with this, but good luck to you dude.

I've been almost 5 months on this.

The study claimed results in 12 weeks

People later started claiming the pics were 8 month pics, after the discontinuation of the treatment.

No one has gotten results even close to those in the study, the best ones have been just decent minox results.

People had the benefit of the doubt at 12 weeks, but right now, it is pretty obvious something is wrong, either the study is fake or everyone has been doing this thing wrong.

LongWayHome
12-27-2013, 12:20 PM
Its really just ONE guy thats the fanatic at ***; squeegee. The dude insults everyone and anyone that says something that goes against his theories/opinions. The amount of bullshit he posts is overwhelming and is the #1 reason why that thread gets derailed. Everyone else is normal. Though he does post relevant stuff as well.

Amen.
Squeegee thinks he's the "Gandalf" of ***, a wizard or something, and everyone else are hobbits.
Doesn't matter what they think, cause he's here to decide for them.
One day he wakes up, reads something about derma-rolling, and says:
"Are you ready for an adventure?" while all the hobbits yell "YES!!".
At start it was actually interesting, but now they became zombies that look for blood. Everyone's trying to show Squeegee that they're "cool" as he's, and the few that say anything else, get ambushed by him.

Chromeo
12-27-2013, 12:45 PM
I've been almost 5 months on this.

The study claimed results in 12 weeks

People later started claiming the pics were 8 month pics, after the discontinuation of the treatment.

No one has gotten results even close to those in the study, the best ones have been just decent minox results.

People had the benefit of the doubt at 12 weeks, but right now, it is pretty obvious something is wrong, either the study is fake or everyone has been doing this thing wrong.

Yeah, could be. We'll just have to wait and see. Suppose it's good to have people bailing out, could prove whether or not you need to keep on rolling after that initial period. I believe it would have to be an ongoing thing to stop fibrosis creeping back in, but that's just me.

Borealis
12-27-2013, 12:48 PM
Lost track of how many rolls I've done. I think this is my 14th or 15th maybe. (I do it every two weeks).

Honestly feel like my hair is thicker, and my hairline is recruiting more and more vellus hairs but there is literally no cosmetic difference from when I started so far.

bigentries
12-27-2013, 02:39 PM
Yeah, could be. We'll just have to wait and see. Suppose it's good to have people bailing out, could prove whether or not you need to keep on rolling after that initial period. I believe it would have to be an ongoing thing to stop fibrosis creeping back in, but that's just me.

People that claimed the pics were 8 at the 8 month mark also claimed it was after discontinuation from the treatment

We don't have to "wait and see" this is the kind of attitude that makes bald guys an easy target for charlatans. People brought up the inconsistencies in the study, like the time length of the pics, from day one and people just chose to ignore it.

Hope I get a miraculous regrowth in 3 months of doing nothing

saintsfan92344
12-27-2013, 04:44 PM
Amen.
Squeegee thinks he's the "Gandalf" of ***, a wizard or something, and everyone else are hobbits.
Doesn't matter what they think, cause he's here to decide for them.
One day he wakes up, reads something about derma-rolling, and says:
"Are you ready for an adventure?" while all the hobbits yell "YES!!".
At start it was actually interesting, but now they became zombies that look for blood. Everyone's trying to show Squeegee that they're "cool" as he's, and the few that say anything else, get ambushed by him.

Not everyone over there bows to squeegee, I roll till I bleed and am trying different things as people come up with them. I have had to call squeegee out a couple times and yes he can be a major a$$ at times but he is not afraid to try new things and jump into them so I will give him his props on that. most of the studies he posts are relevant to hairloss and I take what I want from them and what everyone else has to say not just squeegee and apply them as I see fit.
my take on rolling is I am doing the 12 weeks, then going monthly or 6 weeks, my reasoning is I get a decent shed 4 days after rolling due to what I believe is shockloss, during rolling I cut/pull so many hairs it is very noticeable when I finish so I need a chance for my hair to basically catch up to see if anything is happening. I have 4 more weeks to go

Pentarou
12-27-2013, 04:47 PM
Its really just ONE guy thats the fanatic at ***; squeegee. The dude insults everyone and anyone that says something that goes against his theories/opinions. The amount of bullshit he posts is overwhelming and is the #1 reason why that thread gets derailed. Everyone else is normal. Though he does post relevant stuff as well.

Yeah, very true, that's stopped me registering an account at *** to join the rolling thread(s), that guy's odd and nasty. Some good, intelligent contributors like princess Rambo have been chased away, sadly. At least some guys are posting before/after photos though, sadly lacking elsewhere.

Chromeo
12-27-2013, 05:09 PM
People that claimed the pics were 8 at the 8 month mark also claimed it was after discontinuation from the treatment

We don't have to "wait and see" this is the kind of attitude that makes bald guys an easy target for charlatans. People brought up the inconsistencies in the study, like the time length of the pics, from day one and people just chose to ignore it.

Hope I get a miraculous regrowth in 3 months of doing nothing

Unfortunately you do have to wait and see, as there is no way of telling at the moment how things will be at the 8 months mark.

I also hope you get a miraculous regrowth in 3 months, but it seems unlikely. If you haven't seen anything of note by 20 weeks when others are reporting hair thickening and new hairs coming through, then you're probably not doing it right or perhaps you have other underlying issues you need to address.

Fingers crossed for you.

bigentries
12-27-2013, 05:35 PM
If you haven't seen anything of note by 20 weeks when others are reporting hair thickening and new hairs coming through, then you're probably not doing it right or perhaps you have other underlying issues you need to address.

Anecdotal reports don't work. People also claimed hair thickening in two weeks with indomethacin this year, look were it lead

The only photographic results I've seen look like pretty average minox results, nothing to brag about

Chromeo
12-27-2013, 07:06 PM
Anecdotal reports don't work. People also claimed hair thickening in two weeks with indomethacin this year, look were it lead

The only photographic results I've seen look like pretty average minox results, nothing to brag about

True, I try to take most things with a pinch of salt. Regardless of whether anecdotal accounts work for you or not, I'm hearing too many positive reports of this working to personally discredit it. Don't remember hearing much about Indomethacin besides one guy posting a few questionable pics and not much else. I tuned out pretty early, sensing it was BS like most expensive topical treatments tend to be. I'm seeing improvements myself with rolling which I guess is the best evidence one can see. Sorry that it's not working for you at the moment, but I'll be sticking with it. Hope you see improvements or find something else that works for you.

Pentarou
12-27-2013, 07:46 PM
Are you having any noticeable results from rolling, Chromeo? Only vellus hair for me.

I'm the same with rolling, seeing too many positive accounts (some with photos) to discredit it, and I'm prepared to do it for a while yet, but there's something 'off' with how far off the relatively limited personal results in the community are from those of the original study.

Chromeo
12-27-2013, 08:55 PM
I'm having lots of short black hairs coming through all over my scalp. They are not as long as my other hairs but they are starting to come though, black and quite thick. I'm hopeful that if this continues I could have a pretty decent result, although I am probably years away from a full recovery, if that is even possible.

I also have my concerns regarding the study, it has bothered me from the start. Firstly they were misleading about the severity of the rolling, then they were misleading about the time-frame between the "before" and "after" pictures. I'm not sure if those were just genuine mistakes or something more dubious.

To be honest, as time goes on I've been relying more on the word and results photographs of other forum users rather than the study. Perhaps this too is folly on my part. Only time will tell!

For the time being, I am satisfied that I'm seeing changes and will be sticking with this treatment for the foreseeable.

Hicks
12-27-2013, 09:42 PM
I DR to break up fibrosis and increase blood circulation. Figure scar tissue could of been there sense I started losing hair 7 years ago. Scar tissue is tough. However I could be completely wrong but that's why I'm rolling and using a massage ball to break up and soften scar tissue. I'll keep doing my routine till June.

chimera
12-27-2013, 10:20 PM
I'm having lots of short black hairs coming through all over my scalp. They are not as long as my other hairs but they are starting to come though, black and quite thick. I'm hopeful that if this continues I could have a pretty decent result, although I am probably years away from a full recovery, if that is even possible.
.

I'm just the same. And while I'm completely disappointed with the original study... well, what the hell, those new tiny little hairs have make me decide to stick with this untill 2015...

PinotQ
12-28-2013, 07:00 AM
I'm having lots of short black hairs coming through all over my scalp. They are not as long as my other hairs but they are starting to come though, black and quite thick. I'm hopeful that if this continues I could have a pretty decent result, although I am probably years away from a full recovery, if that is even possible.

I also have my concerns regarding the study, it has bothered me from the start. Firstly they were misleading about the severity of the rolling, then they were misleading about the time-frame between the "before" and "after" pictures. I'm not sure if those were just genuine mistakes or something more dubious.

To be honest, as time goes on I've been relying more on the word and results photographs of other forum users rather than the study. Perhaps this too is folly on my part. Only time will tell!

For the time being, I am satisfied that I'm seeing changes and will be sticking with this treatment for the foreseeable.

I have completed 12 solid weeks of hard rolling and am now taking a break. I too have concerns about the study although I don't see the motivation for fraud b/c they aren't selling anything unless they are somehow sponsored by the dermaroller manufacturing industry which I highly doubt. For now, I choose to chalk much of the apparent inconsistency up to language and the level of professionalism in which the study was documented and written. Here is my experience: 1) I have had acell/prp and I was told I would see nothing for at least 4 months. I saw absolutely nothing for 4 months and then benefits started to appear....so I know this takes time. 2) Evaluating the benefits of a treatment is extremely difficult given the natural day to day fluctuation in the cosmetic appearance of hair and the slow and gradual pace of regression or improvement. For example, from week 1 of DR, my hair immediately looked thicker. Not sure if that is due to increased blood flow to the scalp or what but this effect could be nothing other than cosmetic given how immediate it was and how it seemed to recur after each session. 3) I believe the hairs I have look stronger and thicker than when I started DR but I believe I have fewer hairs. I do not count hairs each day and I am not saying DR has accelerated my hair loss. And this is not necessarily a bad thing but I do believe there is a possibility that DR has caused an unnoticeable shed and/or shock loss which would be consistent with positive benefits that have been set in motion. (I also went back to twice daily applications of minox at about the 6 week mark so this too could account for increased shedding.) 4) I believe there is no harm in taking a break for up to 6 months if need be in order allow any benefits to take effect and eliminate scalp trauma that could mask at least some of the benefits if in fact they exist. Given my experience with acell/prp, and assuming the study pics were in deed at the 8 month mark, if I will receive benefits from my 12 weeks of work they have already been set in motion and will not regress for at least another 6 months. 5) I believe I can see a slight visible improvement at the crown (my worst area). I can see many new hairs that have consistently been appearing for weeks now at and just behind the hair line. They are 1/4 to 1/2 inch in length but there is no way for me to tell yet whether they are hairs coming in stronger due to DR or hairs coming in weaker as part of natural regression. I will say that I have not noticed these types of "new" hairs in the past. I have also seemed to notice more vellus hair but that may just be because I am looking more closely.

So for me the jury is still out and I have guarded optimism. If all DR did was maintain, I would consider it a very powerful new weapon in the fight against hairloss as we continue to wait for the game changer.

ryan555
12-28-2013, 07:54 AM
Question - if you guys are penetrating the scalp to the point of drawing blood, aren't you as susceptible to shock loss as from having a hair transplant? I have been dermarolling for about four weeks and it seems like my hairline has thinned out a little. Not sure it's related, but I thought I'd throw it out there.

PinotQ
12-28-2013, 08:24 AM
It is certainly possible. I don't think any of us know for sure but if the study is legitimate, this is part of the process and we should recover. I know when I had acell/prp, the doctor rolled extremely hard and ultimately there was a benefit..........of course, this was a 1 time roll as opposed to every week. This is why I am giving my scalp a rest after 12 weeks until I see what happens. I don't see much of a down side until I can get a better assessment.

saintsfan92344
12-28-2013, 08:27 AM
Question - if you guys are penetrating the scalp to the point of drawing blood, aren't you as susceptible to shock loss as from having a hair transplant? I have been dermarolling for about four weeks and it seems like my hairline has thinned out a little. Not sure it's related, but I thought I'd throw it out there.

I think it is likely, this is what I posted earlier

"my take on rolling is I am doing the 12 weeks, then going monthly or 6 weeks, my reasoning is I get a decent shed 4 days after rolling due to what I believe is shockloss, during rolling I cut/pull so many hairs it is very noticeable when I finish so I need a chance for my hair to basically catch up to see if anything is happening. I have 4 more weeks to go"

PinotQ
12-28-2013, 04:09 PM
Do you use the 192 needle roller? I started with the 542 needle roller and it did exactly what you are describing. But I switched to a 192 needle roller and have had no problems.

saintsfan92344
12-28-2013, 04:54 PM
Do you use the 192 needle roller? I started with the 542 needle roller and it did exactly what you are describing. But I switched to a 192 needle roller and have had no problems.

192 needle

carlsagan
12-31-2013, 01:32 AM
The study says participants were prepared with betadine and saline before the dermarolling process.

However, it seems like everyone is talking about the pain they are going through, so it doesn't seem like many are using betadine.

Is there a reason for this? Have people been more/less successful when using betadine?

chimera
12-31-2013, 08:24 AM
Betadine is used just to prevent infection. It won't do anything againts the pain. And since there are cheaper and easier to get anti-bacterial agents, most people just bother with betadine. You can just get some alcohol and that's it...

saintsfan92344
12-31-2013, 11:15 AM
Betadine is used just to prevent infection. It won't do anything againts the pain. And since there are cheaper and easier to get anti-bacterial agents, most people just bother with betadine. You can just get some alcohol and that's it...

as far as pain, I use burn cream, put a heavy coat 1/2 hour before rolling, take a shower and wash it out, and clean my scalp with alcohol along with the roller, takes the pain down 30-50%, still hurts a little

carlsagan
12-31-2013, 02:19 PM
as far as pain, I use burn cream, put a heavy coat 1/2 hour before rolling, take a shower and wash it out, and clean my scalp with alcohol along with the roller, takes the pain down 30-50%, still hurts a little

So they didn't use a numbing agent in the trials?

My hunch is it doesn't matter, but have people who are using numbing creams been more/less successful with regrowth?

nliyan25
12-31-2013, 04:49 PM
Is it safe to use both Dermarolling and RU?

UK_
01-01-2014, 03:09 PM
Is it safe to use both Dermarolling and RU?

Is it safe for me to take a shit in the woods?

nliyan25
01-01-2014, 07:42 PM
Is it safe for me to take a shit in the woods?

Ok then.

chimera
01-01-2014, 07:58 PM
Is it safe to use both Dermarolling and RU?

I would wait at least a day before applying RU after the dermaroller, you don't want it going systemic...

Diesel15
01-20-2014, 07:25 PM
There's been no posts in this thread for a while now so maybe this discussion is dead. I don't want to dig through the entire thing to find whether or not this was addressed but did anyone here try DR with Folligen or Tricomin? I've been rolling for about 6 months now. I started at once a week for the first 4 months and have since scaled back to every 2 weeks. I've seen *some* improvement but it is very hard to gauge since I'm a diffuse thinner. I have not been using minox at all though so I'm curious if anyone has tried peptides and has any thoughts/conclusions.

ChrisM
01-20-2014, 08:20 PM
There's been no posts in this thread for a while now so maybe this discussion is dead. I don't want to dig through the entire thing to find whether or not this was addressed but did anyone here try DR with Folligen or Tricomin? I've been rolling for about 6 months now. I started at once a week for the first 4 months and have since scaled back to every 2 weeks. I've seen *some* improvement but it is very hard to gauge since I'm a diffuse thinner. I have not been using minox at all though so I'm curious if anyone has tried peptides and has any thoughts/conclusions.

I used Folligen, Follicure and Tricomin years ago as a shampoo based on the Folligen/ Follicure stated ability to clear away sebum and the Tricomin with its copper peptide binding none of which had a shred of any scientific evidence or clinical trials of import behind them. None of those shampoos did a damn thing and have long since being derided as scams to take the money of men suffering from male pattern baldness. As a result I stopped using them years ago. Regenepure DR was/ is good in the absence of Nizoral from the mainstream market due to faltering in its production/ distribution in various locations but the best is pure prescription Ketoconazole at 2% without the sodium laurel sulfates that damage the scalp and the hair follicle after continuous use of more than twice a week.

PinotQ
01-21-2014, 05:00 AM
ChrisM, How often do you use Ketoconazole 2% and how long due you leave it on your scalp when shampooing?

PinotQ
01-21-2014, 05:01 AM
ChrisM, How often do you use Ketoconazole 2% and how long due you leave it on your scalp when shampooing?

Bocaj
02-09-2014, 09:27 PM
Ok, so along with this tidbit, I was able to find a LOT of other articles on wound theory. This first one is particularly *really* interesting;

Skin wound healing and hair growth device
Inventors Masahiro Ogasawara
Applicant Mignon Belle Co., Ltd.

http://www.google.com/patents/EP2508228A1?cl=en

Here's one of the results in their patent study:

http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l490/hellouser/skin-wounding-masahiro-ogasawara.jpg




This seems to be tied into that Japanese LED device I posted about at some other place. They now have a home/helmet version: http://www.aderans.ne.jp/hairrepro/campaign/20120229/

Use an online translator for best results :cool:

hellouser
02-09-2014, 09:49 PM
This seems to be tied into that Japanese LED device I posted about at some other place. They now have a home/helmet version: http://www.aderans.ne.jp/hairrepro/campaign/20120229/

Use an online translator for best results :cool:

Everything in that link looks like a complete joke, for starters the helmet looks like a Dalek Robot from Dr. Who:

http://i62.tinypic.com/2199mkw.jpg

http://www.coolest-toys.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/dalek.jpg

Bocaj
02-09-2014, 10:19 PM
Actually it's just that first picture and the Japanese characters that make it look goofy. You got excited about that patent...well that's supposedly the kind of tech they were using.

Seuxin
02-10-2014, 03:10 AM
Argh...i juste order a dermaroller....but a 0.75 :\

UK Boy
02-10-2014, 09:12 AM
Haha, that Dalek helmet's being sold by Aderans! So they pulled their money from HM and decided to invest it in this kinda shit instead - gotta laugh or I'd cry!

Bocaj
02-10-2014, 09:27 AM
Haha, that Dalek helmet's being sold by Aderans! So they pulled their money from HM and decided to invest it in this kinda shit instead - gotta laugh or I'd cry!

Is the Aderans you're referring to from Japan?

Bocaj
02-10-2014, 09:39 AM
http://www.aderansresearch.com/ari_clinicupdates.html

http://www.aderans.com/english/company/history.html

I don't see a connection..unless I missed it.

Ha..they acquired Hair Club. THAT is funny..although I haven't followed what's going on with that lately.

Pate
02-13-2014, 01:24 AM
http://www.aderansresearch.com/ari_clinicupdates.html

http://www.aderans.com/english/company/history.html

I don't see a connection..unless I missed it.

Ha..they acquired Hair Club. THAT is funny..although I haven't followed what's going on with that lately.

Same company. ARI was the research arm of Aderans. But Aderans' board decided to cut ARI's funding, presumably because the results weren't good enough to be commercially viable as a treatment.

ARI are apparently trying to find alternative sources of funding but nobody seems to be too optimistic about that happening.

Pentarou
02-13-2014, 06:09 AM
Argh...i juste order a dermaroller....but a 0.75 :\

Doesn't matter, dermarolling doesn't work anyway. There's zero evidence from the results of rolling on this or any other forum. With the volume of people having tried this and the amount of time since the fad began (over 6 months) you'd expect that there would be at least some positive accounts with photos if the original study was halfway believable.

Seuxin
02-13-2014, 06:36 AM
Are you sure ?
A lot of people use it ?
And i think absorbtion is better no ???

Bocaj
02-13-2014, 07:40 AM
Same company. ARI was the research arm of Aderans. But Aderans' board decided to cut ARI's funding, presumably because the results weren't good enough to be commercially viable as a treatment.

ARI are apparently trying to find alternative sources of funding but nobody seems to be too optimistic about that happening.

But one is in Japan..been around for YEARS..the other in the USA. I guess there has to be a page on that somewhere if there is a connection...

youngin
02-13-2014, 08:55 AM
Doesn't matter, dermarolling doesn't work anyway. There's zero evidence from the results of rolling on this or any other forum. With the volume of people having tried this and the amount of time since the fad began (over 6 months) you'd expect that there would be at least some positive accounts with photos if the original study was halfway believable.

Quit misguiding people. Dermarolling may very well work for some people if you do it correctly and have patience. There's been plenty of proof of that. Look at PrettyFly83 posts on this board. The results are so obvious. Just because it doesn't work for you, doesn't mean that it doesn't work at all.

Pentarou
02-13-2014, 10:45 AM
Quit misguiding people. Dermarolling may very well work for some people if you do it correctly and have patience. There's been plenty of proof of that. Look at PrettyFly83 posts on this board. The results are so obvious. Just because it doesn't work for you, doesn't mean that it doesn't work at all.
I followed the study exactly. Bloodied my scalp up properly, used minoxidil daily, etc. Nothing.

If anyone is misguiding people, it's the ones who claim it does work, because there's no evidence other than "it works because I say so". Even prettyfly has disappeared.

Pentarou
02-13-2014, 10:56 AM
Basically if dermarolling + minoxidil worked even a fraction as well as claimed by the Indian journal article, we'd KNOW. So many guys dermarolled, we'd have dozens of clear, unambiguous success stories if it worked.

Conpecia
02-13-2014, 11:46 AM
Basically if dermarolling + minoxidil worked even a fraction as well as claimed by the Indian journal article, we'd KNOW. So many guys dermarolled, we'd have dozens of clear, unambiguous success stories if it worked.

i agree. i started rolling in august and although there looked to be positive signs around the 7th week nothing has changed since. if it worked like the study we'd definitely have a lot of people posting results. tons of guys are getting more vellus hairs so it may be something that takes just as long to regrow as it did to fall out. but i have to say i'm incredibly disappointed at what i've seen from this treatment.

hellouser
02-13-2014, 12:20 PM
Basically if dermarolling + minoxidil worked even a fraction as well as claimed by the Indian journal article, we'd KNOW. So many guys dermarolled, we'd have dozens of clear, unambiguous success stories if it worked.

It's posts like this that made Squeegee on *** go berserk on the 'naysayers'. Dermarolling didn't do much for me either; my hair is still thin and hairline still decimated.

Seuxin
02-13-2014, 12:23 PM
Juste buy one...
Disapointed :\ :\

Use ? Or don't use ?

bigentries
02-13-2014, 03:19 PM
Basically if dermarolling + minoxidil worked even a fraction as well as claimed by the Indian journal article, we'd KNOW. So many guys dermarolled, we'd have dozens of clear, unambiguous success stories if it worked.

Basically this. The study claimed figures around 80% with amazing results, we haven't seen a single unchallenged case in a forum member and this time, a lot of us participated since it was a cheap and easy treatment

Science doesn't work on good vibes, thing either work or not, and if they work, they can be replicated

People need to face reality, there are basically two options at the moment:

1. The study was wrong. A possibility since someone claimed the researchers were offering on their clinic. Huge conflict of interest, combined with the photos

2. We are doing something wrong. Another possibility, since the study was somewhat vague from the start.


Juste buy one...
Disapointed :\ :\

Use ? Or don't use ?

That's your choice man. You already have 6 months of experiences to base your decision.

If you decide to use, please take pics once in while in case you see something

youngin
02-14-2014, 01:40 PM
If it didn't work for you, I'm just curious...

1. How long did you do it?
2. Did you use betadine?
3. Did you use a numbing cream?
4. Did you wait 24 hours to apply Minox?
5. Are you taking MSM?

...the reason I ask #5 is it seems a few of the people who had success were taking MSM also.

35YrsAfter
02-14-2014, 02:53 PM
If it didn't work for you, I'm just curious...

1. How long did you do it?
2. Did you use betadine?
3. Did you use a numbing cream?
4. Did you wait 24 hours to apply Minox?
5. Are you taking MSM?

...the reason I ask #5 is it seems a few of the people who had success were taking MSM also.

Speaking of MSM... My daughter works at a health food store and brought some Hair, Skin and Nails home. Buried Treasure makes some decent supplements IMO. This one doesn't taste so great but may be worth trying.

35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office
forhair.com
Cole Hair Transplant
1070 Powers Place
Alpharetta, Georgia 30009
Phone 678-566-1011
email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
The contents of my posts are my opinions and not medical advice
Please feel free to call or email me with any questions. Ask for Chuck

bigentries
02-14-2014, 03:20 PM
If it didn't work for you, I'm just curious...

1. How long did you do it?
2. Did you use betadine?
3. Did you use a numbing cream?
4. Did you wait 24 hours to apply Minox?
5. Are you taking MSM?

...the reason I ask #5 is it seems a few of the people who had success were taking MSM also.

1. From August 11 to December 31
2. Yes
3. No
4. Yes
5. No, but been on fin for almost 4 years.

If people took MSM then it complicates things, considering some people report growth with it alone

Pentarou
02-14-2014, 06:17 PM
If it didn't work for you, I'm just curious...

1. How long did you do it?
2. Did you use betadine?
3. Did you use a numbing cream?
4. Did you wait 24 hours to apply Minox?
5. Are you taking MSM?

...the reason I ask #5 is it seems a few of the people who had success were taking MSM also.
1. Months, did 14 rolls. 1.5mm roller + bloodshed
2. No; you can't buy that here in the UK.
3. No.
4. Yes.
5. Yes, with zinc and vitamin C. However, MSM has never made my hair grow faster whenever I've used it.

Used Finasteride for years, FWIW.

Pentarou
02-28-2014, 04:19 PM
*** just locked all their dermarolling threads and will delete any further threads created about the topic. Not good. I'll be first to admit that I don't think dermarolling works as well as the study claims, perhaps not at all, but we all pulled together and gave it a go, whether here or on other forums. Seeing the ability to carry out community teamwork in future jeopardised is not a good thing.

hellouser
02-28-2014, 04:23 PM
*** just locked all their dermarolling threads and will delete any further threads created about the topic.

Squeegee must have just had a heart attack.

Bocaj
02-28-2014, 06:09 PM
Squeegee must have just had a heart attack.

He's probably saying- at least I didn't waste any more time there :eek:

dan1938
03-01-2014, 08:03 AM
why did they do it? Did it work too well to jeopardize their other products which I find unlikely from the other posts? Or did it take too much attention away from the products they sell? And how can we trust the moderators with the truth of what does and doesn't work if they take it upon themselves to lock threads that have attracted positive attention?





*** just locked all their dermarolling threads and will delete any further threads created about the topic. Not good. I'll be first to admit that I don't think dermarolling works as well as the study claims, perhaps not at all, but we all pulled together and gave it a go, whether here or on other forums. Seeing the ability to carry out community teamwork in future jeopardised is not a good thing.

fred970
03-01-2014, 09:36 AM
The 2young guy posted a pictured of his scalp literally butchered.

The admin of the forum was just concerned about the well-being of impressionable young hair loss sufferers who might have tried to do the same.

clarence
03-01-2014, 03:45 PM
The 2young guy posted a pictured of his scalp literally butchered.

The admin of the forum was just concerned about the well-being of impressionable young hair loss sufferers who might have tried to do the same.

Hahaha what an enchanting guy. So dedicated to find something which works, just hope he doesn't accidentally kill himself while --> NW0 or die trying

Parsia
03-02-2014, 07:42 PM
The 2young guy posted a pictured of his scalp literally butchered.

The admin of the forum was just concerned about the well-being of impressionable young hair loss sufferers who might have tried to do the same.

Fred , please come on , Do you enjoy to separate us from each other? Stop
doing that man , you have reported him like child because of some bloody pics
of his scalp . Its enough . ! everybody knows what you did. it was a childish behavior.

bigentries
03-03-2014, 08:51 AM
The 2young guy posted a pictured of his scalp literally butchered.

The admin of the forum was just concerned about the well-being of impressionable young hair loss sufferers who might have tried to do the same.

Yeah, his scalp is literally butchered, pretty scary. I wonder how did he explained to others in his everyday life what was going on

If the thing catches up again at that level of damage, I'm pretty sure someone will end up getting an infection

Anyone knows how long did it take him to get to that point?

Pentarou
03-21-2014, 06:19 AM
Anyone still on this journey? Seems like the lights have all gone out everywhere on the rolling front.

fred970
03-21-2014, 06:20 AM
Yeah unfortunately it was a scam. People jumped into it, me included. 800 pages of topics if we count the two forums, 0 convincing result.

bigentries
03-21-2014, 11:21 AM
Yeah unfortunately it was a scam. People jumped into it, me included. 800 pages of topics if we count the two forums, 0 convincing result.

"Scam" is a big word. The study is obviously wrong at this point, and of course there is the possibility of scam if it's verified that the researchers were offering the procedure in their clinic

Too bad, because this thing had the most potential for self-experimentation I've seen in hair loss forums

Now we come the usual stuff, people still dermarolling because a guy showed dubious pictures and a bunch of people with anecdotal evidence swear by it, throw again them getting mad at skepticism, and in a year, as always, we'll make it look like the thing never happened again

And to believe that just three years ago the future seemed so bright with Aderans and Histogen still in the game

Pentarou
03-21-2014, 11:37 AM
I know bigentries, it's really depressing.

Even if we had new treatments on the horizon, rolling if it worked 'as advertised' would've been a game changer. Regrowing hair with existing treatments is damn near impossible except for the lucky few, so something DIY to roll back miniaturisation, mind blowing.

I'm still surprised that this experiment yielded such sustained commitment and team work amongst this utterly dysfunctional community! Most successful experiment ever in hair loss forum history for lasting more than a week or two.

Dazza
03-21-2014, 12:04 PM
I'm still surprised that this experiment yielded such sustained commitment and team work amongst this utterly dysfunctional community! Most successful experiment ever in hair loss forum history for lasting more than a week or two.

Price and accessibility had a lot to do with this. You could easily pick up a roller from amazon for a few quid rather buying unstable chemicals off a dodgy Chinese website.

hellouser
03-21-2014, 12:31 PM
Price and accessibility had a lot to do with this. You could easily pick up a roller from amazon for a few quid rather buying unstable chemicals off a dodgy Chinese website.

Plus it reduces wrinkles and increases absorption of other topical treatment. Wounding may not work on its own, but the other treatments efficacy is improved.

Dazza
03-21-2014, 12:44 PM
increases absorption of other topical treatment. Wounding may not work on its own, but the other treatments efficacy is improved.

Totally agree. Didn't cots hint at this aswell?

hellouser
03-21-2014, 12:45 PM
Totally agree. Didn't cots hint at this aswell?

Not sure... all remember from him was 'cheesegrater' and '2-5 years'

We all know how the latter went...

JulioGP
04-06-2014, 08:17 AM
I started making use of the rink. So far all quiet. Here some four months back to talk about the results.

fred970
04-06-2014, 01:04 PM
I guess this scam finally died off completely.

hellouser
04-06-2014, 01:30 PM
I guess this scam finally died off completely.

Scam?

fred970
04-06-2014, 01:45 PM
Well maybe it's not the appropriate word, mmmh... Joke?

hellouser
04-06-2014, 01:53 PM
Well maybe it's not the appropriate word, mmmh... Joke?

Uh... dermarolling still has its purposes as it definitely helps penetration of topical treatments.

You're wrong to dismiss dermarolling completely.

fred970
04-06-2014, 02:47 PM
Penetration of topical treatments? We were already talking about that a decade ago.

Has it ever helped any hair loss sufferer? Nope.

hellouser
04-06-2014, 02:51 PM
Penetration of topical treatments? We were already talking about that a decade ago.

Has it ever helped any hair loss sufferer? Nope.

Has anything else? All the treatments are crap.

DesperateOne
04-06-2014, 03:23 PM
Well one thing derma rolling does do is increase hair shaft big time, but you have to do it so often and it's so painful that I question the trade off. What we need is someone to bite the bullet, derma roll really hard and apply minox with fgf-9.
Who in this forum has nothing to lose but everything to gain.

fred970
04-06-2014, 04:12 PM
Minoxidil, finasteride and hair transplants.

Notcoolanymore
04-06-2014, 06:01 PM
I am having my doubts about the effectiveness of dermarolling, but I still do it once a week. I don't turn my head into hamburger like many though, so I am probably just wasting my time.

35YrsAfter
04-07-2014, 06:48 AM
Uh... dermarolling still has its purposes as it definitely helps penetration of topical treatments.

You're wrong to dismiss dermarolling completely.

I couldn't agree more. When we step back and look carefully at the treatments that work even minimally like Rogaine, PRP, finasteride, dutasteride, etc., we can get some clues related to the problems causing miniaturized hairs.

I personally think there is something to dermarolling. I haven't read of any deaths caused by micro needling . On the other hand there are dangers of excess absorption of certain topicals.

I personally believe that MPB related hair loss is related to the effects of PGD2 inhibiting platelet aggregation. As mentioned in another thread, miniaturized hair follicles due to MPB have concentrations of prostaglandin D2. On the other hand platelet rich plasma increases the hair shaft diameter of miniaturized hair.

I think what is needed is a study of normal healthy hair cycles. Is there a critical time in normal hair cycles where platelet growth factors play a necessary role in sustaining thick terminal hairs? If so specifically what growth factors are the most important to hair growth or is it a combination? When one looks at nature, there are instances where optimal timing is important. For example, Before entering hibernation, animals need to store enough energy to last the entire winter. Larger species become hyperphagic and eat a large amount of food and store the energy in fat deposits. It's interesting to note that bald scalp has less fat. Testosterone contributes to thinning of the subcutaneous fat. In women, estrogen prevents thinning of these cushioning tissues, at least until menopause.

The aforementioned are just a few examples of what might stimulate ideas and discussion. In other words, if bald scalp has less fat, is there any topical when micro needled that could promote fat production? At this point anyway, before the major breakthrough we all want, I think that a better understanding of what already works even minimally is of value to everyone because the existing treatments can be improved upon.

35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office
forhair.com
Cole Hair Transplant
1070 Powers Place
Alpharetta, Georgia 30009
Phone 678-566-1011
email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
The contents of my posts are my opinions and not medical advice
Please feel free to call or email me with any questions. Ask for Chuck

HairBane
04-07-2014, 07:35 AM
I couldn't agree more. When we step back and look carefully at the treatments that work even minimally like Rogaine, PRP, finasteride, dutasteride, etc., we can get some clues related to the problems causing miniaturized hairs.

I personally think there is something to dermarolling. I haven't read of any deaths caused by micro needling . On the other hand there are dangers of excess absorption of certain topicals.

I personally believe that MPB related hair loss is related to the effects of PGD2 inhibiting platelet aggregation. As mentioned in another thread, miniaturized hair follicles due to MPB have concentrations of prostaglandin D2. On the other hand platelet rich plasma increases the hair shaft diameter of miniaturized hair.

I think what is needed is a study of normal healthy hair cycles. Is there a critical time in normal hair cycles where platelet growth factors play a necessary role in sustaining thick terminal hairs? If so specifically what growth factors are the most important to hair growth or is it a combination? When one looks at nature, there are instances where optimal timing is important. For example, Before entering hibernation, animals need to store enough energy to last the entire winter. Larger species become hyperphagic and eat a large amount of food and store the energy in fat deposits. It's interesting to note that bald scalp has less fat. Testosterone contributes to thinning of the subcutaneous fat. In women, estrogen prevents thinning of these cushioning tissues, at least until menopause.

The aforementioned are just a few examples of what might stimulate ideas and discussion. In other words, if bald scalp has less fat, is there any topical when micro needled that could promote fat production? At this point anyway, before the major breakthrough we all want, I think that a better understanding of what already works even minimally is of value to everyone because the existing treatments can be improved upon.

35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office
forhair.com
Cole Hair Transplant
1070 Powers Place
Alpharetta, Georgia 30009
Phone 678-566-1011
email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
The contents of my posts are my opinions and not medical advice
Please feel free to call or email me with any questions. Ask for Chuck

With the fat reduction theory though, what about bodybuilders on massive amounts of steroids with <6&#37; bodyfat, who just happen not to have the gene for hair loss and therefore keep their hair? Could it just be that once all of the hair follicles have miniaturized, the fat reduces as a consequence of the lack of follicles, rather than as a factor which causes it in the first place?

35YrsAfter
04-07-2014, 09:06 AM
With the fat reduction theory though, what about bodybuilders on massive amounts of steroids with <6% bodyfat, who just happen not to have the gene for hair loss and therefore keep their hair? Could it just be that once all of the hair follicles have miniaturized, the fat reduces as a consequence of the lack of follicles, rather than as a factor which causes it in the first place?

Good point and it's hard to say. I remember when I was around 14, a noticeable fatty layer preceded beard growth on my chin. Studies indicate, without DHT, you won't grow a beard or body hair. Even if you are genetically predisposed to MPB, without DHT you will maintain a teenage head of hair to old age. It messes with minds.

35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office
forhair.com
Cole Hair Transplant
1070 Powers Place
Alpharetta, Georgia 30009
Phone 678-566-1011
email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
The contents of my posts are my opinions and not medical advice
Please feel free to call or email me with any questions. Ask for Chuck

efedrez
05-19-2014, 05:38 PM
Is anyone still dermarolling or have we lost completely faith in this method?

I did it for a while with some minimal results and was wondering if it makes sense to go back for a few months

fred970
05-19-2014, 05:50 PM
No result everywhere. If it did anything, we would know it by now. Delighted eople would have posted pictures.

It has almost been a year since this method "came out" and there we have nothing.

Even I followed the 12 weeks protocol, and here I am 5 days after my FUE. So yeah, game over for this technique, it sounded promising on paper though.

hellouser
05-19-2014, 05:58 PM
No result everywhere. If it did anything, we would know it by now. Delighted eople would have posted pictures.

Not true. 2young2retire had some fantastic results.

fred970
05-19-2014, 06:02 PM
It's the minoxidil, he's just a very good responder like I was, that's all.

He will be in for a rude awakening in a few years.

Conpecia
05-19-2014, 06:20 PM
no he wasnt on minox

fred970
05-19-2014, 06:22 PM
He was, he still is. That's why he had regrowth, don't be fooled.

rdawg
05-19-2014, 06:47 PM
Is anyone still dermarolling or have we lost completely faith in this method?

I did it for a while with some minimal results and was wondering if it makes sense to go back for a few months

yea it doesnt work.

But it's a base, the whole FGF9 is the bigger piece of the puzzle here.

We need wounding+FGF9, just wounding doesnt seem to do anything.

Conpecia
05-19-2014, 07:28 PM
He was, he still is. That's why he had regrowth, don't be fooled.

no. he wasn't. that's why his case matters.

fred970
05-19-2014, 07:49 PM
He was, then he stopped, around the March.

It takes 3 months for the minoxidil hairs to shed, just wait a little more time, and you'll see him crawl back here wondering what's going on.

Also, on all the after pictures he posted, his hair was longer, that and the minoxidil alone can do miracles, you don't believe me? I guess I have to do this...

This is me in August 2011, at the peak of my minoxidil regrowth:

http://www.fredk.be/images/bubble.jpg

And this was me a few days ago, just before my FUE surgery:

http://www.fredk.be/fue/before-ht.jpg

As you see minoxidil can do wonders to very good responders, but the benefit doesn't last long. This is where 2young2retire is headed.

Sorry to burst your bubble Conpecia and hellhouser. One more thing: why on earth would he be the only guy to get results from dermarolling?

Agahi
05-19-2014, 07:51 PM
I got some results with it. I have a lot of new growth past my hairline and inside it when I thinned out. The problem is looking like the hairs never get longer than my arm hair(not very long). Though dark black and more close together than my arm hair.

I actually am able to add some concealer to it and look like a nw2 again, though I have a lot of trouble with concealer on the hairline.

fred970
05-19-2014, 07:56 PM
No one cares Agahi. We want pictures. Prove it.

Agahi
05-19-2014, 07:58 PM
lol. k gimme a bit.

Agahi
05-19-2014, 08:11 PM
Crap cam on my Phone but I wanted to get these up quick. Ill see about snagging the GFs phone tomorrow for you for a better look.

Pic #2 is an outline of the general area with new growth though the further from the hairline the shorter the hair(so harder to see).

I actually have some baby hairs down to NW1 area though those are very sparse.

Been derma rollin for maybe 3 months now? Fin 4 years, Minox 8 years Niz 3 years.

http://i62.tinypic.com/2whkq6b.jpg

http://i60.tinypic.com/2eat1ya.jpg

youngin
05-19-2014, 09:01 PM
PrettyFly83 had awesome results. He stopped posting cause of negative crap on this forum. He posted on ******* and showed pictures at 9 months that were crazy good. I have attached it to this post, I hope he doesn't mind. Fred, you gonna tell me this is all from Minox? I'm sure you will, cause it's your only acceptable thought process.

hellouser
05-19-2014, 09:07 PM
PrettyFly83 had awesome results. He stopped posting cause of negative crap on this forum. He posted on ******* and showed pictures at 9 months that were crazy good. I have attached it to this post, I hope he doesn't mind. Fred, you gonna tell me this is all from Minox? I'm sure you will, cause it's your only acceptable thought process.

That is incredible :|

fred970
05-19-2014, 09:21 PM
Are you guys really that naive? You don't see that the angles are different and he used a flash in the second picture?

Spencer explained what happens when you use a flash sideways, the light reflects on all the hairs, so it seems fuller.

Some people will never learn. Well at least until they are NW4+.

hellouser
05-19-2014, 10:01 PM
Are you guys really that naive? You don't see that the angles are different and he used a flash in the second picture?

Spencer explained what happens when you use a flash sideways, the light reflects on all the hairs, so it seems fuller.

Some people will never learn. Well at least until they are NW4+.

I've done lots of professional photography... no way in hell am I going to take the word of an amateur like Spencer on this subject, lol.

PrettyFly's results are plain as day and so are 2young's.

fred970
05-20-2014, 01:19 AM
So, dermarolling worked for these 2 persons but not you, not me, not swingline, not any single other user in the world (if it did, they would be shouting it on rooftops)?

This thread has 300000 views, the one on the other forum had 1 million, yet we have nothing conclusive.

They used minoxidil, that explains the results. The debate is closed.

PrettyFly83
05-20-2014, 08:03 AM
Hey guys thought I'd update

Took a break from rolling Jan - March then started up again. Hair has bounced back into regrowth mode this month. Lots of new vellus at the temples. Rest is getting thicker and stronger very slowly.

Yes hair lengths are different now etc etc but I have shaved my head the past 5 years o am enjoying the new hair and compliments:D I'm still very thin ontop though which may never fill in but its alot better than it was.

Yes lighting is not identical but its the best I can do.


Pics are:
1. back & crown 12 months
2. top crown 12 months
3. Left Side from old picture to know
4. Left side from old picture to know different angle
5. Right Temple

35YrsAfter
05-20-2014, 08:05 AM
So, dermarolling worked for these 2 persons but not you, not me, not swingline, not any single other user in the world (if it did, they would be shouting it on rooftops)?

This thread has 300000 views, the one on the other forum had 1 million, yet we have nothing conclusive.

They used minoxidil, that explains the results. The debate is closed.

On paper, derma rolling without using any topical is minimally effective. I believe there is a possibility that a future preventive topical cure for MPB will be a PGD2 neutralizer that is applied and derma rolled into the scalp. I wouldn't give up on the derma roller. Also consider that MPB can often take more than a decade to develop. What if some of the guys, discouraged with the short-term results just needed to stick with it? At least use a derma roller with Rogaine. Studies indicate that derma rolling increases its effectiveness. Dr. Cole uses a 1.5 needle length derma roller to enhance the effectiveness of stand-alone ACell/PRP treatments.



35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office
forhair.com
Cole Hair Transplant
1070 Powers Place
Alpharetta, Georgia 30009
Phone 678-566-1011
email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
The contents of my posts are my opinions and not medical advice
Please feel free to call or email me with any questions. Ask for Chuck

fred970
05-20-2014, 08:10 AM
Hey guys thought I'd update

Took a break from rolling Jan - March then started up again. Hair has bounced back into regrowth mode this month. Lots of new vellus at the temples. Rest is getting thicker and stronger very slowly.

Yes hair lengths are different now etc etc but I have shaved my head the past 5 years o am enjoying the new hair and compliments:D I'm still very thin ontop though which may never fill in but its alot better than it was.

Yes lighting is not identical but its the best I can do.


Pics are:
1. back & crown 12 months
2. top crown 12 months
3. Left Side from old picture to know
4. Left side from old picture to know different angle
5. Right Temple

No disrespect but I'm not buying that you're not on treatments. It's even possible that you had a hair transplant and decided to make fun of us.

Not only the lightning is different, but you have your head shaved in the before pictures.

Notcoolanymore
05-20-2014, 08:34 AM
Those are pretty damn good results if they are legit.

35YrsAfter
05-20-2014, 09:24 AM
Those are pretty damn good results if they are legit.

Working at Dr. Cole's office, I meet every patient that comes in for hair restoration surgery. I ask every patient if they post in the forums. Roughly 85% say they either regularly or occasionally visit the forums. Out of that 85% who visit the forums, only about 5% say they ever post.

35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office
forhair.com
Cole Hair Transplant
1070 Powers Place
Alpharetta, Georgia 30009
Phone 678-566-1011
email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
The contents of my posts are my opinions and not medical advice
Please feel free to call or email me with any questions. Ask for Chuck

youngin
05-20-2014, 04:36 PM
Hey guys thought I'd update

Took a break from rolling Jan - March then started up again. Hair has bounced back into regrowth mode this month. Lots of new vellus at the temples. Rest is getting thicker and stronger very slowly.

Yes hair lengths are different now etc etc but I have shaved my head the past 5 years o am enjoying the new hair and compliments:D I'm still very thin ontop though which may never fill in but its alot better than it was.

Yes lighting is not identical but its the best I can do.


Pics are:
1. back & crown 12 months
2. top crown 12 months
3. Left Side from old picture to know
4. Left side from old picture to know different angle
5. Right Temple

PrettyFly, thanks for stopping in. Incredible results. Your results give me alot of hope to continue on. Everytime I think I should just quit I look at your 9 month picture and remember you telling me to just KEEP GOING. These new ones are even more inspiring. THANKS!

One question is, did you roll every week for 12 months, or did you take breaks?

youngin
05-20-2014, 04:59 PM
One question is, did you roll every week for 12 months, or did you take breaks?

Guess I didn't thoroughly read your post. Did you roll all the way from May-2013 to December-2013?

PrettyFly83
05-21-2014, 01:52 AM
No disrespect but I'm not buying that you're not on treatments. It's even possible that you had a hair transplant and decided to make fun of us.

Not only the lightning is different, but you have your head shaved in the before pictures.

None taken, Ive got no reason too lie. Ive documented my progress throughout this thread from as early as page 5. Go back and see my posts and early pictures. Definitely no transplant and other meds!

As far as I can tell, I'm getting similar results to the good cases the original study assessed.

So you backtracking on your theory that this is minox only? or clever trick photography?

fred970
05-21-2014, 02:34 AM
Not really, I've seen everything in the 5 years I spent on hair loss forums.

27 posts only about dermarolling and a recent joining date, I just don't trust you and I think other members should be cautious too.

I suggest you send your pictures to Spencer and call the show, this could be interesting.

35YrsAfter
05-21-2014, 06:59 AM
Not really, I've seen everything in the 5 years I spent on hair loss forums.

27 posts only about dermarolling and a recent joining date, I just don't trust you and I think other members should be cautious too.

I suggest you send your pictures to Spencer and call the show, this could be interesting.

Here's a respected site summarizing a derma rolling study. Very encouraging:

Results:
"(1) Hair counts – The mean change in hair count at week 12 was significantly greater for the Microneedling group compared to the Minoxidil group (91.4 vs 22.2 respectively). (2) Investigator evaluation – Forty patients in Microneedling group had +2 to +3 response on 7-point visual analogue scale, while none showed the same response in the Minoxidil group. (3) Patient evaluation – In the Microneedling group, 41 (82%) patients reported more than 50% improvement versus only 2 (4.5%) patients in the Minoxidil group. Unsatisfied patients to conventional therapy for AGA got good response with Microneedling treatment.

Conclusion:
Dermaroller along with Minoxidil treated group was statistically superior to Minoxidil treated group in promoting hair growth in men with AGA for all 3 primary efficacy measures of hair growth. Microneedling is a safe and a promising tool in hair stimulation and also is useful to treat hair loss refractory to Minoxidil therapy."

Link to the article (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3746236/)

35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office
forhair.com
Cole Hair Transplant
1070 Powers Place
Alpharetta, Georgia 30009
Phone 678-566-1011
email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
The contents of my posts are my opinions and not medical advice
Please feel free to call or email me with any questions. Ask for Chuck

youngin
05-21-2014, 07:13 AM
Not really, I've seen everything in the 5 years I spent on hair loss forums.

27 posts only about dermarolling and a recent joining date, I just don't trust you and I think other members should be cautious too.

I suggest you send your pictures to Spencer and call the show, this could be interesting.

I know I wouldn't do that if I were him. What does he have to prove to everyone? Nothing. I totally believe it and I've been here more than 5 years. I am a NW6 and already see old hair thickening with DR + Minox after DR'ing for 4 months and Minox for 1. The study already proved the efficacy. I am more bald than PrettyFly. I have proof of hairs turning from vellus to dark hair on DR alone. You can see hairs that are blonde ontop and black on the bottom under a microscope. I won't post any pictures because I don't have anything to prove though. There's a good chance this technique would work for alot of people. Go get your hair transplant and leave it alone.

Arashi
05-21-2014, 07:34 AM
Lol

PrettyFly83
05-21-2014, 07:37 AM
Come on guys, this study was quoted on the first page, 9th word of this thread and was the whole hype of this treatment...

hellouser
05-21-2014, 07:38 AM
Come on guys, this study was quoted on the first page, 8th word of this thread and was the whole hype of this treatment...

LOL, I know, that study has been posted so many times... you'd think everyone would have seen it by now.

Arashi
05-21-2014, 07:41 AM
LOL, I know, that study has been posted so many times... you'd think everyone would have seen it by now.

LOL, thanks, I thought it was a different recent study :) Bummer indeed then ...

Arashi
05-21-2014, 07:42 AM
I haven't been following the dermarolling thread very much. SO what's the current consensus then ? THat that whole study was fake ?

bigentries
05-21-2014, 07:48 AM
I admit PrettyFly's results are very good. However, they are nowhere near what the study presented. They are very good minox results however

2young2retire? I think his pics are deceiving and the fact that he got all defensive about them proves he has little to back up. I'm always wary when a new user shows up with great results and starts speaking like he is an expert on the subject

And people do have reason to lie, this is the internet, we have seen MANY cases of people that cured baldness, pranced like they were the heroes agains the Big Pharma conspiracy and disappeared or quietly ignored their previous claims after no one got results from it.

FredtheBelgian is a good example of that kind of user, since he also became famous after promoting his own protocol. Kudos to him for not running away after things got sour


I haven't been following the dermarolling thread very much. SO what's the current consensus then ? THat that whole study was fake ?

Like many, I tried the protocol for 5 months with no results. Now everyone has moved on into massacring their scalps instead of following the study.

I still feel the study had some sort of deception. The after pics show a hair length suspiciously long for a 3 month study, specially when they claim they shaved their heads to measure baselines.
Some people keep repeating the after pics are actually the 8th month results, but I haven't seen any real quote from the researchers

hellouser
05-21-2014, 07:48 AM
I haven't been following the dermarolling thread very much. SO what's the current consensus then ? THat that whole study was fake ?

Didn't do much for me and I went at it for 4-5 months of dermarolling. Well thats not true, I did bleed a bit.

hellouser
05-21-2014, 07:55 AM
I admit PrettyFly's results are very good. However, they are nowhere near what the study presented. They are very good minox results however

PrettyFly's results are BETTER than what the study presented. He went from NW6 to an NW4.

bigentries
05-21-2014, 07:58 AM
I know I wouldn't do that if I were him. What does he have to prove to everyone? Nothing. I totally believe it and I've been here more than 5 years. I am a NW6 and already see old hair thickening with DR + Minox after DR'ing for 4 months and Minox for 1. The study already proved the efficacy. I am more bald than PrettyFly. I have proof of hairs turning from vellus to dark hair on DR alone. You can see hairs that are blonde ontop and black on the bottom under a microscope. I won't post any pictures because I don't have anything to prove though. There's a good chance this technique would work for alot of people. Go get your hair transplant and leave it alone.

No offense, but why even post this if you refuse to show evidence?
This pisses me off, and not only about dermarolling. HLH is very guilty of that, every treatment there has people claiming results, but no one posts pics because "they have nothing to prove"

This is very egotistical, if you have something to show, show it, we need all the information we can get, and analyse it together, good results or no results are valuable information. Otherwise, these kind of posts just add noise and leave people wondering years in the future if the treatment really worked.


PrettyFly's results are BETTER than what the study presented. He went from NW6 to an NW4.

But not in three months.
From what I remember, by the time the study popped up, PrettyFly claimed he had been on it for several months.
Nothing new, there was also a fad about minox and dermarolling years before this study appeared

35YrsAfter
05-21-2014, 08:01 AM
LOL, I know, that study has been posted so many times... you'd think everyone would have seen it by now.

The thing is, forums create the illusion for those who post that posters are an accurate representation of total forum visitors. Only a small percentage of forum readers ever post and there is a constant influx of new forum readers. Redundancy can help prevent a new forum visitor from landing on someone's sour note.

35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office
forhair.com
Cole Hair Transplant
1070 Powers Place
Alpharetta, Georgia 30009
Phone 678-566-1011
email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
The contents of my posts are my opinions and not medical advice
Please feel free to call or email me with any questions. Ask for Chuck

hellouser
05-21-2014, 08:10 AM
The thing is, forums create the illusion for those who post that posters are an accurate representation of total forum visitors. Only a small percentage of forum readers ever post and there is a constant influx of new forum readers. Redundancy can help prevent a new forum visitor from landing on someone's sour note.

The study is on page 1 of this thread. I'd be pretty disappointed if people simply saw the name of this thread and started reading random pages out 200+ while ignoring the very FIRST one.

youngin
05-21-2014, 08:45 AM
No offense, but why even post this if you refuse to show evidence?
This pisses me off, and not only about dermarolling. HLH is very guilty of that, every treatment there has people claiming results, but no one posts pics because "they have nothing to prove"

This is very egotistical, if you have something to show, show it, we need all the information we can get, and analyse it together, good results or no results are valuable information. Otherwise, these kind of posts just add noise and leave people wondering years in the future if the treatment really worked.


The statement is saying I believe it BECAUSE I have seen changes in myself. I have shown people on other forums the pictures but this forum is full of negativity so why would I share something that will be shrugged off immediately. Right now these pictures motivate me and give me hope, should I post them and then have peoples negativity and doubt bring me down? No thanks. You could have the ultimate cure for baldness and everyone would just say its fake or a fluke here. It's really useless to post anything. See now the original published study is fake! It doesn't matter what i post. If you want the photo then join PHG and I will send it to you.

It's totally understandable why PrettyFly didn't post here for a long time. He previously gave detailed posts about his routine and month by month results which anyone can look at. But the first response to 12 month photos by Fred is: NO OFFENSE BUT FAAAAAKE! Silly

fred970
05-21-2014, 08:45 AM
FredtheBelgian is a good example of that kind of user, since he also became famous after promoting his own protocol. Kudos to him for not running away after things got sour

I remember I had the same attitude as 2young2retire. Calling people idiots because they said I would end up bald. Or telling them to just go have a hair transplant, you know, like some people just did in this thread.

Users like 2young and Prettyfly will have to go what I've been through, and it's a pretty harsh experience. I had to edit all my previous posts on the other forum, I was so ashamed of myself. When I think that my nonsense is still out there on the IH forum.

Oh yes, of course! The negativity, it's because we're "negative" that we're still bald. Because healthy criticism and baldness go hand in hand!

Post picture or just don't post anything at all, it's completely useless.

bigentries
05-21-2014, 08:57 AM
The statement is saying I believe it BECAUSE I have seen changes in myself. I have shown people on other forums the pictures but this forum is full of negativity so why would I share something that will be shrugged off immediately. Right now these pictures motivate me and give me hope, should I post them and then have peoples negativity and doubt bring me down? No thanks. You could have the ultimate cure for baldness and everyone would just say its fake or a fluke here. It's really useless to post anything. See now the original published study is fake! It doesn't matter what i post. If you want the photo then join PHG and I will send it to you.

It's totally understandable why PrettyFly didn't post here for a long time. He previously gave detailed posts about his routine and month by month results which anyone can look at. But the first response to 12 month photos by Fred is: NO OFFENSE BUT FAAAAAKE! Silly
Don't confuse negativity as healthy skepticism, you've been too long in the game too.

I'm sorry, but if someone had the cure for baldness, and it could be replicated, I don't see why anyone would think is fake.

If you have pics, post them please, understand that you add noise to the debate if you claim results but can't prove them. You don't know if someone 5 years from now will read your posts and would get confused.

We have reasons to be skeptic. Again, look at Fred's case here, had he stopped posting after he went bald, someone might even think his original protocol really worked

hellouser
05-21-2014, 09:05 AM
Not posting pics is insulting to the members of this forum. Backup your claims with evidence.

youngin
05-21-2014, 09:21 AM
Don't confuse negativity as healthy skepticism, you've been too long in the game too.

I'm not confusing it :)

walrus
05-21-2014, 05:21 PM
2young2retire? I think his pics are deceiving and the fact that he got all defensive about them proves he has little to back up.

2young2retire seemed over-excitable and slightly delusional.

His photos weren't great either.

gemplus
05-21-2014, 10:10 PM
Congrats for your success and thanks for the very good pictures!

Could you please describe your regime?
You started with VitC, MSM and Minox? Rolling x mm every y days?

Thanks again!

BBay
05-22-2014, 06:35 AM
I can't comment on derma rolling but micro needling certainly could be worth investigating.
The 8 th World Hair Congress had a few papers on it. One was titled LONG TERM FOLOWUP OF MICRO NEEDLINGPATIENTS TREATED FOR ANDROGENETIC ALOPECIA
Conclusion: Microneedling is indeed proving to be a promising tool in patients distressed with AGA. The effect of microneedling on hair stimulation was maintained post procedure and long term effects were good.This modality of therapy has not shown any long term side effects, therefore can be safely used and implemented in our daily practice in patients with AGA.
There are/is some more papers on this, if any interest I'll check through the papers and post.

youngin
05-22-2014, 06:42 AM
Congrats for your success and thanks for the very good pictures!

Could you please describe your regime?
You started with VitC, MSM and Minox? Rolling x mm every y days?

Thanks again!

He has already described this. Find all posts by him and read them.

hellouser
05-22-2014, 07:35 AM
Congrats for your success and thanks for the very good pictures!

Could you please describe your regime?
You started with VitC, MSM and Minox? Rolling x mm every y days?

Thanks again!

Who is this directed to?

PrettyFly83
05-22-2014, 07:46 AM
Hey all

Ok so I’ve been asked a number of time to provide my routine so here it is with as much additional info I can think of but first a couple of important points I’d like to share:

1. I don’t know if rolling has been the key for me or if I’m just a good minox responder – there is no way we would ever be able to tell as I am not intending to stop minox.

2. My progress may look good but it has been incredibly slow and I am still very thin on top!

3. I’ve stuck to my regime with some minor changes / laziness along the way but there have been MANY times where I thought it was not working and to pack it in.

4. In my opinion consistency and patience is key.

5. As Fred and many more before have pointed out the study does not seem accurate in their pictures at the assumed 12 week point. I too believe the hair length in the pictures does not represent 12 weeks but more along the lines of 8 months – maybe even 8 months post the 12 week study.

6. Regarding various peoples success / failures of this treatment I think its important to note the study’s results: 50 people were on the rolling protocol, 18 people had “greatly increased” (36%), 22 had “moderately increased” (44%) and 10 had “slightly increased” (20%). 2 in 5 will have good results so it’s not guaranteed this will work for everyone.

7. These statistics were recorded by an independent person through HD photo’s via a stereotactic device at week 1 and week 12– not by looking in the mirror every day.

8. I look in the mirror and can’t see any new hairs to this day! That is just the nature of seeing yourself every day. Only with comparing Hi Res pictures between month 1 /3/6/12 could I tell things were happening very slowly.

Quick story on me age 30, NW6 as best I could tell. Started losing at 21 (9 years ago), NW4 at around 25 (5 years ago) and shaved my hair No.0 since 25. I had never cared to much about my hairloss and just accepted it and played along with the jokes but after reading an article somewhere, it stated its best to start treatments as early as possible so I thought I’d give it one last try before I’d left it too long.

Hair loss stages at age:
19: Started noticing increased hair fall in my study books etc
21: Noticed temples thinning (NW1.5)
23: Increased Temple and top thinning (NW2)
24: Significant thinning on top (NW3)
25-26: Loss of density all over (NW4 but could trace NW6 thinning - started buzzing)
28: Bald top no temples (NW5)
30: (Now) complete loss with some minor stubborn terminal hairs sporadically spaced (NW6)

My Regime as follows:
1. April 2013: I started Generic Minox 1ml twice a day as per instructions. This seemed to be the easiest treatment to start. Heard about Fin but was concerned about the sides.

2. May 2013: Picked up a 0.5mm roller as I wanted to reduce my sunspots and increase topical absorption of minox. When I research dermarollers, 0.5mm was said to be the best for skin pigmentation and hair growth through minox absorption. When I rolled it hurt and I got a quite a few spots of blood. I minox’d immediately after rolling, as this is what the roller was intended for and it burns. Ive always minoxed straight after rolling to this day. I never had heart issues and suggest you stop immediately if you feel strange. I press hard and roll for around 10min in a crisscross pattern over entire scalp.

3. May 2013: Added Vit C 1 gram and MSM 2gram a day after reading the thread. Occasionally made a topical 100% Vit C and distilled water which I rubbed on head for sunspots.

4. July 2013: Found this thread and the study and started posting progress pictures for the benefit of the community.

5. August 2013: Contacted the Authors of the study to try get some clarifications, can find that post here http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showthread.php?p=139398#post139398 . Regrowth seemed to have slowed down.

6. September 2013: Added 1.5mm roller, added Keto Shampoo 2 x week away from rolling, added supplement Zinc 18mg, Vit A 10 000iu, Vit B6 20mg .

7. December 2013: Provided 6 month update picture to forum, post here http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showthread.php?p=159611#post159611

8. Jan 2014 – March 2014: Took a break from rolling, got distracted and bored. Kept up with everything else.

9. March/April 2014: Picked up rolling again, updated other forum with pictures

10. May 2014: Posted 12 month update here

So my daily regime is:
• Minox 2ml
• 1 gram vita C, 1 gram MSM
• Zinc Supplement (supplement Zinc 18mg, Vit A 10 000iu, Vit B6 20mg)

Weekly:
• Roll for 10min with 1.5mm roller in crisscross pattern over entire scalp
• Very painful but don’t use any numbing cream etc. I get spots of blood all over
• I sterilise my roller thoroughly before and after
• Occasionally I rub 100% VitC in distilled water over my head for sunspots

Ive tried to be as open as possible with this community as the wealth of information here has helped me greatly. Therefor I feel responsible that I owe it back and play open book. I’m like you and just want to be able to get on with life and not worry about this crap so please try not be too harsh. I’m still not happy with my hair but it looks alot better – not too say that I wasn’t good looking with my shaved head;) People just think Ive grown it out but my family sees the difference.

I hope this helps

PrettyFly83
05-22-2014, 11:26 PM
I can't comment on derma rolling but micro needling certainly could be worth investigating.
The 8 th World Hair Congress had a few papers on it. One was titled LONG TERM FOLOWUP OF MICRO NEEDLINGPATIENTS TREATED FOR ANDROGENETIC ALOPECIA
Conclusion: Microneedling is indeed proving to be a promising tool in patients distressed with AGA. The effect of microneedling on hair stimulation was maintained post procedure and long term effects were good.This modality of therapy has not shown any long term side effects, therefore can be safely used and implemented in our daily practice in patients with AGA.
There are/is some more papers on this, if any interest I'll check through the papers and post.

Excellent find BBay - this looks like it could be a follow up report on the original study. Please post it or any other information you can find?

BBay
05-23-2014, 05:39 AM
OK here is another one on micro needling. I'll give a heavily edited version here.

COMPARISON OF THERAPEUTIC EFFECT OF SYSTEMIC GROWTH FACTOR MICRONEEDLE TREATMENT IN THE PATIENTS WITH MALE PATTERN HAIR LOSS BY VARYING DEPTH OF ABSORPTION:
Objective: The aim of this study was to compare the difference of effects according to the depth of micro needle.
Conclusion: Our results show that 0.5mm depth seems to be more effective than 0.3mm depth of micro needle.

If someone wants full abstract I'll write up if any interest.

youngin
05-23-2014, 06:36 AM
OK here is another one on micro needling. I'll give a heavily edited version here.

COMPARISON OF THERAPEUTIC EFFECT OF SYSTEMIC GROWTH FACTOR MICRONEEDLE TREATMENT IN THE PATIENTS WITH MALE PATTERN HAIR LOSS BY VARYING DEPTH OF ABSORPTION:
Objective: The aim of this study was to compare the difference of effects according to the depth of micro needle.
Conclusion: Our results show that 0.5mm depth seems to be more effective than 0.3mm depth of micro needle.

If someone wants full abstract I'll write up if any interest.

Please write it up or link to it.

fred970
05-23-2014, 03:56 PM
This was posted by Prettyfly on another forum:


1. I don’t know if rolling has been the key for me or if I’m just a good minox responder – there is no way we would ever be able to tell as I am not intending to stop minox.

Ok folks, show's over, nothing to see here.

hellouser
05-23-2014, 03:57 PM
This was posted by Prettyfly on another forum:



Ok folks, show's over, nothing to see here.

That doesnt go against dermarolling or for it though.

fred970
05-23-2014, 04:01 PM
I know it may be hard to believe hellhouser, but he's now 1 year into his minoxidil treatment. When I was 1 year into my minoxidil treatment, I went from a diffuse NW5 to a NW2 with slightly less density at the front, and I'm not exagerating, just look at the reactions about my results in the success stories sections of ***.

Like I said many times, he's just a very good responder like I was.

youngin
05-23-2014, 07:03 PM
I know it may be hard to believe hellhouser, but he's now 1 year into his minoxidil treatment. When I was 1 year into my minoxidil treatment, I went from a diffuse NW5 to a NW2 with slightly less density at the front, and I'm not exagerating, just look at the reactions about my results in the success stories sections of ***.

Like I said many times, he's just a very good responder like I was.

Your negativity is astounding.

youngin
05-23-2014, 10:39 PM
PrettyFly, this might seem completely irrelevant but call it my curiosity... Do you smoke or take any form of nicotine? Thanks

PrettyFly83
05-26-2014, 05:50 AM
Fred: I posted the same response to both forums. See post #2239 on previous page. Not hiding anything. What happened with your Minox response after your regrowth? did it just stop working or did you stop for other reasons?

Youngin: Smoked a little in my early 20's but stopped about 5 years ago. What your thoughts on that?

fred970
05-26-2014, 06:14 AM
The effects of minoxidil just don't last forever, if they did, it would be a cure.

youngin
05-26-2014, 07:16 AM
Youngin: Smoked a little in my early 20's but stopped about 5 years ago. What your thoughts on that?
Well the MPB twin studies correlate smoking to hair loss but I recently read a few studies showing that nicotine promotes angiogensis so it made me curious. I vape nicotine but have never smoked.