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534623
10-05-2013, 10:31 AM
Anyone here have any ideas or theories on how to help push vellus hairs towards terminal hairs?

Sure ...

Try to write a proper DNA code for the proper re-programming and activation of your current DNA-programming. That's all.

baldybald
10-05-2013, 10:42 AM
Whatever mental problem you're suffering from the meds aren't helping, you should probably double the dose...

oh sorry, then you got some shit on your head ;)

chimera
10-05-2013, 11:59 AM
hey hellouser here am back, and did you get any hair from your stupid dermaroller? i do not think so, you only get sh*t !!

You sick bastard... why would it give you pleasure to know this is not working for any of us?...

greatjob!
10-05-2013, 12:24 PM
oh sorry, then you got some shit on your head ;)

I'm not sure if that's an insult or not, because it makes zero sense whatsoever. Good work. ;)

Conpecia
10-05-2013, 01:17 PM
You sick bastard... why would it give you pleasure to know this is not working for any of us?...

hey it gives me pleasure to know baldybald is a hideous bald f*ck, does that make me a sick bastard?

greatjob!
10-05-2013, 01:20 PM
hey it gives me pleasure to know baldybald is a hideous bald f*ck, does that make me a sick bastard?
No some people deserve it

Knockin on NW4
10-05-2013, 01:51 PM
hey hellouser here am back, and did you get any hair from your stupid dermaroller? i do not think so, you only get sh*t !!

my hair is most definitely improved since addding the 1.5mm roller, GFYS. what do u do to positively contribute to the hairloss community?

greatjob!
10-05-2013, 04:01 PM
what do u do to positively contribute to the hairloss community?

He makes us all look vastly more intelligent with his incoherent rants.

clandestine
10-05-2013, 05:11 PM
my hair is most definitely improved since addding the 1.5mm roller, GFYS. what do u do to positively contribute to the hairloss community?

What's your current entire regimen KoNW4?

baldybald
10-05-2013, 11:20 PM
you guys still have no idea what baldness and hair loss mean and this what makes me angry. hairloss is a beast that companies are spending MILLIONS of dollars to find a cure or a treatment and you guys want to treat yourself by dermaroller ? i mean think about it, it may be useful for people who lost his hair because of maybe lack of vitamins or something easy to solve, but not when your hormone destroy your hair!!! please think about it, this thread is taking too much attention!!

greatjob!
10-05-2013, 11:28 PM
you guys still have no idea what baldness and hair loss mean and this what makes me angry. hairloss is a beast that companies are spending MILLIONS of dollars to find a cure or a treatment and you guys want to treat yourself by dermaroller ? i mean think about it, it may be useful for people who lost his hair because of maybe lack of vitamins or something easy to solve, but not when your hormone destroy your hair!!! please think about it, this thread is taking too much attention!!

You know what makes me mad? People who talk about things when it is clear they are completely out of their depth (i.e. you).

baldybald
10-05-2013, 11:30 PM
You know what makes me mad? People who talk about things when it is clear they are completely out of their depth (i.e. you).

so are you telling me it is working for you, am sure it is not :)

greatjob!
10-05-2013, 11:35 PM
so are you telling me it is working for you, am sure it is not :)

I'm not sure, it hasn't been very long. Am I expecting this to work miracles? No, but it is almost free and there is solid science behind the principle of wounding leading to up-regulation of growth factors leading to follicle neogenesis. You know the science that every single one of those "million dollar" companies work is based on, however, science is clearly beyond your scope of comprehension so I will stop before your brain gets hurt.

p.s.- If this thread is getting too much attention and we are all stupid, then what are you doing here?

baldybald
10-05-2013, 11:52 PM
I'm not sure, it hasn't been very long. Am I expecting this to work miracles? No, but it is almost free and there is solid science behind the principle of wounding leading to up-regulation of growth factors leading to follicle neogenesis. You know the science that every single one of those "million dollar" companies work is based on, however, science is clearly beyond your scope of comprehension so I will stop before your brain gets hurt.

p.s.- If this thread is getting too much attention and we are all stupid, then what are you doing here?

i did not call anyone stupid. i know how hard it is when you put a lot of hope in something and turn to you that is not working. people talked about this thread in 2007 and if it worked everybody would use it.
Greatjob, sorry if i discourage anyone here. But remember i will come back to you exactly after 3 months to remind you. good luck !!

Koga
10-05-2013, 11:54 PM
you guys still have no idea what baldness and hair loss mean and this what makes me angry. hairloss is a beast that companies are spending MILLIONS of dollars to find a cure or a treatment and you guys want to treat yourself by dermaroller ? i mean think about it, it may be useful for people who lost his hair because of maybe lack of vitamins or something easy to solve, but not when your hormone destroy your hair!!! please think about it, this thread is taking too much attention!!

Lol those companies better hurry up because my hairs are slowly growing back

greatjob!
10-06-2013, 12:05 AM
people talked about this thread in 2007 and if it worked everybody would use it.


The pervious threads were focused on absorption

LevonHelms
10-06-2013, 01:25 AM
you guys still have no idea what baldness and hair loss mean and this what makes me angry. hairloss is a beast that companies are spending MILLIONS of dollars to find a cure or a treatment and you guys want to treat yourself by dermaroller ? i mean think about it, it may be useful for people who lost his hair because of maybe lack of vitamins or something easy to solve, but not when your hormone destroy your hair!!! please think about it, this thread is taking too much attention!!

Me jump on and say angry at too much a focus on a derm, when clearly millions are invested with a company. Why you try a dermarolla? Me simple caveman, confused by bright lights and loud noises!!!??

fred970
10-06-2013, 02:08 AM
What? We still don't have clear before/after pictures and it's October? I think we can safely say this does not work now.

StayThick
10-06-2013, 07:50 AM
What? We still don't have clear before/after pictures and it's October? I think we can safely say this does not work now.

I've been telling you Neanderthals that it doesn't work. Doesn't mean it wasn't worth a shot though. I'm still doing it 1x a week but I know it's not doing jack.

With treatments for baldness moving at a snails pace, I don't have any other options at the moment outside of a transplant. Sucks.

Knockin on NW4
10-06-2013, 09:01 AM
What's your current entire regimen KoNW4?



Roll 1.5mm once a week minox foam 2x a day, even roll days. just started CB @ 1% a few days ago. thats it. in my before pics, i had been not using minox very regularly. I was pretty strict in use for years, then got real lazy, so there was a minox shed happening.

Pentarou
10-06-2013, 10:18 AM
I've been telling you Neanderthals that it doesn't work. Doesn't mean it wasn't worth a shot though. I'm still doing it 1x a week but I know it's not doing jack.

With treatments for baldness moving at a snails pace, I don't have any other options at the moment outside of a transplant. Sucks.

I haven't tried rolling yet, and most likely will never do, because I don't think that it really works either. Might be one of those things that could work in theory, but not in practice.

Strong evidence, and I'd buzz down to a 0 and go at it full-on, with all the bloodshed it entails, now, nope.

chimera
10-06-2013, 10:29 AM
I've been telling you Neanderthals that it doesn't work.

Don't call us neanderthals. You should be happy we're willing to be the guinea pigs bleeding our damn scalps trying to find a treatment that works for us and for you all ungratefull pricks.

Maybe this won't work. We are just trying to do the best we can with the little info and resources we got. What did you expect us to do?. Take your word over a published study?. Even if in the end you're right, as I said, we have to do everything we can with as little as we have. We had to try this.

clandestine
10-06-2013, 10:51 AM
I haven't tried rolling yet, and most likely will never do, because I don't think that it really works either. Might be one of those things that could work in theory, but not in practice.

Strong evidence, and I'd buzz down to a 0 and go at it full-on, with all the bloodshed it entails, now, nope.


http://i1258.photobucket.com/albums/ii528/alecboring/Collage2013-10-0517_23_04-658677991_zpsdec1ec98.png (http://s1258.photobucket.com/user/alecboring/media/Collage2013-10-0517_23_04-658677991_zpsdec1ec98.png.html)


http://i1258.photobucket.com/albums/ii528/alecboring/Collage2013-10-0517_36_06-109741558_zps8f69dbd6.png (http://s1258.photobucket.com/user/alecboring/media/Collage2013-10-0517_36_06-109741558_zps8f69dbd6.png.html)

?

baldybald
10-06-2013, 10:52 AM
What? We still don't have clear before/after pictures and it's October? I think we can safely say this does not work now.

Thanks bro , hope they understand that soon :)

greatjob!
10-06-2013, 11:00 AM
Thanks bro , hope they understand that soon :)

Since you guys are so sure this won't work, why are you still trolling this thread? You don't think this thread should even exist and none of us want you here so just leave, us rolling our head affects your live in no way so GTFO!

baldybald
10-06-2013, 11:12 AM
Since you guys are so sure this won't work, why are you still trolling this thread? You don't think this thread should even exist and none of us want you here so just leave, us rolling our head affects your live in no way so GTFO!

Yes you are right, good luck bro

Knockin on NW4
10-06-2013, 11:50 AM
u guys are so naive to discredit this treatment modality. is it the cure? of course not, but its a great addition to a multiple angled approach to treating hairloss. plus it is by far the cheapest addition to any regimen.

Pentarou
10-06-2013, 06:10 PM
OK, I'm a lot more convinced of the merits of this technique after seeing Knockin's photos.

Californication
10-06-2013, 07:24 PM
I've been telling you Neanderthals that it doesn't work. Doesn't mean it wasn't worth a shot though. I'm still doing it 1x a week but I know it's not doing jack.

With treatments for baldness moving at a snails pace, I don't have any other options at the moment outside of a transplant. Sucks.

What happened to your post 5 DAYS ago that said you were slowly seeing some terminal hair?

No offense dude because I like you and we're in somewhat similar situations I feel with not being able to tolerate fin, but you're either a bad judge of whether something is working or are being overly emotional right now (hope its the emotional one, trust me I know that we all have our bad days)

StayThick
10-06-2013, 08:25 PM
What happened to your post 5 DAYS ago that said you were slowly seeing some terminal hair?

No offense dude because I like you and we're in somewhat similar situations I feel with not being able to tolerate fin, but you're either a bad judge of whether something is working or are being overly emotional right now (hope its the emotional one, trust me I know that we all have our bad days)

I think it's the latter man. This whole balding thing just takes a toll on me.

As a far dermarolling, I mentioned I still do it because I believe it helps. The problem is that it's not helping enough. It's not improving my hairline/overall scalp density enough for me to say it 100% works and can yield results. Then again, nothing currently in the market can, so I'm just screwed either way.

What I have noticed from dermarolling is terminal hair sprouting in my hairline. I just need effing more of it man. Cosmetically, these dark hair sprouts that are forming don't mean much to me unless more sprout and I can achieve at least somewhat ok density in the area. I guess its hair greed, but it's just frustrating poking holes in my skin while biting on a sock, just to grow some terminal hairs along the hairline. I need MORE! I will continue...just hope my my situation can improve.

StayThick
10-06-2013, 08:32 PM
Don't call us neanderthals. You should be happy we're willing to be the guinea pigs bleeding our damn scalps trying to find a treatment that works for us and for you all ungratefull pricks.

Maybe this won't work. We are just trying to do the best we can with the little info and resources we got. What did you expect us to do?. Take your word over a published study?. Even if in the end you're right, as I said, we have to do everything we can with as little as we have. We had to try this.

Chimera, easy there killer. I have been poking holes in my scalp with a freaking sock jammed in my mouth before you even know this study existed, let alone dermarolling. I have more experience with this application then 90% of those on this forum as I have been doing it for almost 8 months now.

It can help, the problem is to what degree? Those doing this need to tailor their expectations. That's been MY ISSUE. I keep getting frustrating with the lack of treatments available and the pace of when future treatments will come about, that I start putting all my eggs in this dermarolling basket. Foolish.

I said I still do it 1x a week because I think there is SOME value to the treatment. I just know now not to expect much from it, maybe maintenance at best. For those seeking immense regrowth I truly hope you have a back-up plan. That's all I'm saying.

Tracy C
10-06-2013, 09:08 PM
I see context is not your strong suit. Not surprising.

It is truly pathetic how clueless you are. It amazes me that someone like you started a thread about something that might actually have some merit.

Tracy C
10-06-2013, 09:15 PM
...this thread is taking too much attention!!

I wouldn't say that, though there is a bit too much crap going on. The idea this thread is about testing deserves to be tested. Though I personally feel that far too few are actually trying to duplicate the pilot study, I am happy that anybody is trying to duplicate it.

Conpecia
10-06-2013, 09:19 PM
tracy no offense but you're on the proverbial wrong side of town. no way you know as much about this type of experimental stuff as hellouser. while you're busy trumpeting the big 3 he's researching hair loss in more complex ways. which is why his name is on the first post of this massive thread and not yours. simple as that.

Tracy C
10-06-2013, 09:24 PM
What? We still don't have clear before/after pictures and it's October? I think we can safely say this does not work now.

Not really - and for the following reasons:

1) Not everyone started when this thread started. Some of us could not start right away. For example I am only on my fourth week.

2) Not everyone is trying to duplicate the pilot study. Most are doing their own thing. You need to wait for the group that is trying to duplicate the pilot study. If no one in that group gets results, then it is safe to say it does not work.

3) Realistically it would likely take at least four but more likely six months before anyone will know if this is working. Those who are expecting results in a matter of weeks are going to be disappointed.

Tracy C
10-06-2013, 09:27 PM
Stuff...

I do not trumpet "the big 3". I trumpet good quality evidence. There is little to no good quality evidence for these experimental treatments. If there was, I would would trumpet about it.

Conpecia
10-06-2013, 09:32 PM
anyways back ot... i'm starting to think we should be adding minox on the days we roll, since most of the guys getting results are doing so. thoughts?

Californication
10-06-2013, 09:42 PM
I think it's the latter man. This whole balding thing just takes a toll on me.

As a far dermarolling, I mentioned I still do it because I believe it helps. The problem is that it's not helping enough. It's not improving my hairline/overall scalp density enough for me to say it 100% works and can yield results. Then again, nothing currently in the market can, so I'm just screwed either way.

What I have noticed from dermarolling is terminal hair sprouting in my hairline. I just need effing more of it man. Cosmetically, these dark hair sprouts that are forming don't mean much to me unless more sprout and I can achieve at least somewhat ok density in the area. I guess its hair greed, but it's just frustrating poking holes in my skin while biting on a sock, just to grow some terminal hairs along the hairline. I need MORE! I will continue...just hope my my situation can improve.

Right there with you man, I remember you posting that because you're one of the good, reliable ones around here.

hellouser
10-07-2013, 12:08 PM
I do not trumpet "the big 3". I trumpet good quality evidence. There is little to no good quality evidence for these experimental treatments. If there was, I would would trumpet about it.

My god, please STOP it with the 'good quality' crap.

That is such a vague and meaningless demand. What the hell is supposed to be 'good quality' ??? I saw in another thread you wanted to see 'good quality' photos with a 'good quality' camera. I have a $3,000 dollar dSLR camera at home with a Canon L lens that is 'good quality' but for our intent and purposes I can replicate photos that meet our desired expectations with a regular point and shoot camera for $200 dollars or less. Its not the 'good quality' camera, its me knowing how to work with a set of tools available to achieve the results.

So tell us, what is it exactly you want to see from evidence?

I'll give you a head start: evenly lit subjects with diffused lighting similar to overcast outdoor light, f/8 or higher aperture from the lens to have most of everything IN focus (no bokeh), a fast enough shutter speed to NOT allow any motion blur to give the illusion of 'double hair' and the same practice for before and after photos with the same hair style and length taken at the same angles for comparison between one and the other.

chimera
10-07-2013, 02:29 PM
Hey, hellouser, have you seen princessRambo's results back at ***?...

I know he is not just using the dermaroller... but still, to achive that kind of regrowth without fin...wow...

StayThick
10-07-2013, 06:45 PM
anyways back ot... i'm starting to think we should be adding minox on the days we roll, since most of the guys getting results are doing so. thoughts?

I apply Minox immediately following my dermarolling session. I tried waiting 24 hours for about 2 months and felt it did nothing but slow my progress and made no sense to me personally considering the success I've had with Rogaine.

When I started noticing "some" improvement in my hairline was when I applied MINOX immediately following a serious derma-rolling session.

Note: Fortunately, I did not notice any added/increased side effects from doing this. That's just my personal experience. Thought I'd share.

hellouser
10-07-2013, 07:04 PM
Hey, hellouser, have you seen princessRambo's results back at ***?...

I know he is not just using the dermaroller... but still, to achive that kind of regrowth without fin...wow...

A quick look at his results and I can safely say the regrowth is on par with some of the BEST result's I've seen from guys that used finasteride... and hes only been dermarolling for a relatively short time. Absolutely incredible results. I hope something starts happening on my end soon. My shedding is significantly down but density, temples and hairline are still crap.

StayThick
10-07-2013, 08:15 PM
A quick look at his results and I can safely say the regrowth is on par with some of the BEST result's I've seen from guys that used finasteride... and hes only been dermarolling for a relatively short time. Absolutely incredible results. I hope something starts happening on my end soon. My shedding is significantly down but density, temples and hairline are still crap.

Hellouser, I'm in the same boat and we are paddling up the same river, but short of HT, nothing will regrow your hairline/corners bro. I seen your pics. It's not happening man. It just won't. We need to maintain at this point.

I'm saving my pennies for a HT next year...

hellouser
10-07-2013, 08:39 PM
Hellouser, I'm in the same boat and we are paddling up the same river, but short of HT, nothing will regrow your hairline/corners bro. I seen your pics. It's not happening man. It just won't. We need to maintain at this point.

I'm saving my pennies for a HT next year...

Only way my temples would have a chance of being filled in was if I had started a regimen 6 or so years ago. Hairline has been almost the same since, so essentially I've been about an NW2-3 for nearly a decade.

JDW
10-08-2013, 04:18 AM
Hey, hellouser, have you seen princessRambo's results back at ***?...

I know he is not just using the dermaroller... but still, to achive that kind of regrowth without fin...wow...

Any chance of posting pictures of this up here somewhere?
thanks

Tracy C
10-09-2013, 05:36 AM
My god, please STOP it with the 'good quality' crap.

Absolutely not - because it is not crap.

TheJive
10-09-2013, 11:05 AM
OK, I'm a lot more convinced of the merits of this technique after seeing Knockin's photos.

His just looks like he grew his hair out.

Any better before and after pictures, with hair the same length.

I'm hoping that this is the answer.

LevonHelms
10-09-2013, 01:15 PM
His just looks like he grew his hair out.

Any better before and after pictures, with hair the same length.

I'm hoping that this is the answer.

Theres a couple on ***.

Knockin on NW4
10-10-2013, 08:12 PM
His just looks like he grew his hair out.

Any better before and after pictures, with hair the same length.

I'm hoping that this is the answer.

That's why I posted the other pic from a year ago with even longer hair. i have no new hairs on my temple corners. But existing hair is thicker. I know i need a real camera. I dont wanna take my hair back that short because it looks better how it is now.

Hopefully in about three months i can post new pics. That way it will at least be the same phone taking the pics. And hopefully my results havent peaked yet and i can show more improvement. And i will be sure to keep it the same length.

Its stressful sharing how bad my loss is. And depressing. But if it helps my bald bros out, its worth it. Im doubting it will grow temple hair, but for advanced NWs its been helping

hellouser
10-13-2013, 10:41 AM
I'm switching over to dermarolling every two weeks. However, I'm being more aggressive with wounding each time I do it; drawing more blood, pressing as hard as possible (full 1.5mm depth), rolling many time over the same area and sometimes 1-3x in a single day.

A couple weeks ago I dermarolled 3 times in one day at 2 hour intervals and applied minox shortly after during one of the sessions. It stung, due to the alcohol, but no side effects what so ever.

My reasons for waiting a two week period is in regards to the following graph on wounding and healing process:

http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l490/hellouser/NRjUksx.jpg

Notice that at the 7-14 day mark there are a LOT of interesting things happening? By dermarolling/wounding every 7 days its POSSIBLE that we are in constant reset mode and the healing process is never achieved, thus not inducing the necessary growth factors.

When I waited my two week period, I noticed that a LOT of dead skin was being shed after 7 days, which could suggest that this time frame works.

clandestine
10-13-2013, 11:15 AM
Hellouser; do you leave the blood on your head? Or do you wash it off after rolling?

hellouser
10-13-2013, 04:18 PM
Hellouser; do you leave the blood on your head? Or do you wash it off after rolling?

Last two times I dermarolled I wiped it off. I noticed that the blood leaves ugly brown patches on my scalp that stay for a while.

Also, something to think about; when wisdom teeth are removed, the blood dries up from the blood clot and closes the holes where the teeth used to be. Maybe someone can chime in, but would wiping off the blood slow down the healing process? As far as I know, Follica applies some kind of substance to the wounded area that slows down the healing process which is supposed to induce hair follicle neogenesis. Thoughts?

cichlidfort
10-13-2013, 05:52 PM
Maybe someone can chime in, but would wiping off the blood slow down the healing process?

Maybe initially it might prolong the clotting process but overall I doubt it would slow down the healing process. Blood clotting is one the few bodily mechanisms that supports positive feedback (e.g. giving birth, inflammation, blood clotting, fever etc). The activity of the thrombocytes signals the body for more thrombocytes until the wound is blocked. Any other takes on it?

LevonHelms
10-14-2013, 09:50 AM
I'm switching over to dermarolling every two weeks. However, I'm being more aggressive with wounding each time I do it; drawing more blood, pressing as hard as possible (full 1.5mm depth), rolling many time over the same area and sometimes 1-3x in a single day.

A couple weeks ago I dermarolled 3 times in one day at 2 hour intervals and applied minox shortly after during one of the sessions. It stung, due to the alcohol, but no side effects what so ever.

My reasons for waiting a two week period is in regards to the following graph on wounding and healing process:

http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l490/hellouser/NRjUksx.jpg

Notice that at the 7-14 day mark there are a LOT of interesting things happening? By dermarolling/wounding every 7 days its POSSIBLE that we are in constant reset mode and the healing process is never achieved, thus not inducing the necessary growth factors.

When I waited my two week period, I noticed that a LOT of dead skin was being shed after 7 days, which could suggest that this time frame works.

Looking at the graph, it may turn out that 2 weeks is the better time frame.
Personally I'm liking what I see with the 1 week interval, and I'm beginning to wonder if the initial period of vasodilation may be the key player. I'm wondering this, because I've noticed all of the smaller hairs seem to go into a hyper growth phase in the 2-3 days after rolling.

DesperateOne
10-14-2013, 10:11 PM
It is now confirmed, this study will not achieve WIHN, it will only improve old hair and revive some old ones that were going to jump ship. It is still worth doing.

MackJames
10-15-2013, 06:48 AM
Looking at the graph, it may turn out that 2 weeks is the better time frame.
Personally I'm liking what I see with the 1 week interval, and I'm beginning to wonder if the initial period of vasodilation may be the key player. I'm wondering this, because I've noticed all of the smaller hairs seem to go into a hyper growth phase in the 2-3 days after rolling.


Two weeks may be better but I'm going to continue following the guidelines of the study for the duration. After the study period is over I will experiment with different application times.

MackJames
10-15-2013, 06:49 AM
It is now confirmed, this study will not achieve WIHN, it will only improve old hair and revive some old ones that were going to jump ship. It is still worth doing.



It's been confirmed?

clandestine
10-15-2013, 09:42 AM
It's been confirmed?

No; I wouldn't listen to the user DesperateOne, personally.

Erratic.

Chromeo
10-15-2013, 02:58 PM
No; I wouldn't listen to the user DesperateOne, personally.

Erratic.

I would tend to agree. The name is a bit of a giveaway.

Confirmed by whom, exactly?

cichlidfort
10-15-2013, 03:06 PM
It is now confirmed, this study will not achieve WIHN, it will only improve old hair and revive some old ones that were going to jump ship. It is still worth doing.

Don't deter new readers or members from trying this by announcing "it's been confirmed" when it clearly hasn't.

LevonHelms
10-15-2013, 03:26 PM
It's been confirmed?

No, nothing has been confirmed. It's all still conjecture at this point.

However, it's thought that actual neo-genesis might be impossible outside of Dr. Cotsarelis's lab. No surprise there, neo-genesis would be like turning lead into gold, a miracle. Neo-genesis would involve the formation of a complete follicle structure from scratch; sebaceous gland, dermal papilla, bulge region full of stem cells, all of it. This is what desperateone is referring to.

Regeneration, is what we're looking for, we don't need neo-genesis.

Everything that would be formed by neo-genesis of hair structures is already in our scalp! The idea is to hit the reset switch by wounding and activate all the dormant and miniaturised hairs!:D

brunobald
10-15-2013, 03:49 PM
Ah crap... The evidence is there levon, maybe not in the dermarolling community but neogenesis has been reported in multiple cases. All creating brand spanking new follicles. The most compelling is the case of young burns victims with almost complete hair loss having their scalps stretched by inflating water ballons under the skin. Under tension new skin forms over the gallon to release the pressure. This new skin contains new follicules. Search the forum for details I posted this a while back.

Then you have doctor cole and nigams regen. The complicated follicule structure has been removed leaving only part of the lower follicule in place, yet it completely regrows itsel from only a fraction of a follicle.

LevonHelms
10-15-2013, 04:20 PM
Yes, you're right Bruno.
I should of prefaced "In the context of dermarolling, neo-genesis seems unlikely, but not impossible.". That's the whole point, we don't know. It's damn sure doing something.

MackJames
10-15-2013, 04:39 PM
Just completed my eighth week of rolling. I have a question for my hair loss homies How do I go about taking a good pic of my white hair? I'm only 36 but my hair is basically white with a spattering of black and very short.

cichlidfort
10-15-2013, 04:40 PM
Just completed my eighth week of rolling. I have a question for my hair loss homies How do I go about taking a good pic of my white hair? I'm only 36 but my hair is basically white with a spattering of black and very short.

You can probably edit the picture. Are you using one of the new smart phones to take the pics?

MackJames
10-15-2013, 04:43 PM
You can probably edit the picture. Are you using one of the new smart phones to take the pics?


I have a 8 meg pixel digital camera and a smart phone also with 8. The flash just makes it appear as if I have a lot less hair than I do. It's better without the flash but is a bit dark. Should I try natural lighting? And the hair on my scalp is sticking straight up

clandestine
10-15-2013, 07:58 PM
I have a 8 meg pixel digital camera and a smart phone also with 8. The flash just makes it appear as if I have a lot less hair than I do. It's better without the flash but is a bit dark. Should I try natural lighting? And the hair on my scalp is sticking straight up

Yes natural lighting is ideal.

35YrsAfter
10-16-2013, 09:03 AM
Last two times I dermarolled I wiped it off. I noticed that the blood leaves ugly brown patches on my scalp that stay for a while.

Also, something to think about; when wisdom teeth are removed, the blood dries up from the blood clot and closes the holes where the teeth used to be. Maybe someone can chime in, but would wiping off the blood slow down the healing process? As far as I know, Follica applies some kind of substance to the wounded area that slows down the healing process which is supposed to induce hair follicle neogenesis. Thoughts?

I am certain that many doctors look at this thread and just roll their eyes. I personally believe there is merit to dermarolling over scar tissue to improve the appearance of a scar. Growing hair or increasing density? I doubt it but, it must be remembered that many medical breakthroughs were accidental. For example, a Russian ophthalmologist who removed a sliver of glass from a girl's eye is considered the "father" of radial keratotomy. Radial keratotomy is the technology that led to modern lasik surgery. The doctor who removed the glass from his patient's eye saw an improvement in her vision after the slit healed. If memory serves me, about 70% of refraction of light occurs at the cornea. In myopia, the eye has too much plus power. That's why optometrists and opthalmologists prescribe minus power lenses to lengthen the focal point so it reaches the retina. Opthalmologists realized that slicing the cornea in a variety of ways has a flattening effect which lengthens the focal length. Radial keratotomy is even effective in treating astigmatism. FYI

Compared with other research, MPB research is relatively scarce. I prefer to keep an open mind with a reasonable level of skepticism.

35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office
forhair.com
Cole Hair Transplant
1045 Powers Place
Alpharetta, Georgia 30009
Phone 678-566-1011
email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
Please feel free to call or email me with any questions. Ask for Chuck

Superdave
10-16-2013, 06:04 PM
I'm game for giving it a shot. Years ago I had mole removed on my right shoulder. The dermatologist sliced it off and sent it to a lab to be evaluated. It was deemed that more tissue needed to be removed, so I was referred to a general surgeon. Well, he went kind of nuts and I was left witty a 2" gash and 3 to 4 stitches, looks like I was stabbed here.

Anyway, the incision was on the face of my shoulder just outside of the area where hair grows on my chest. As this healed, hair grew out of the scar tissue and its a bit different in texture then the rest of the hair on my chest. My other shoulder has no hair in this same area.

Pentarou
10-16-2013, 06:19 PM
From my experiences so far, this woks to some mild degree, but there are some major pieces in the puzzle missing.

bombarie
10-17-2013, 06:11 AM
It is now confirmed, this study will not achieve WIHN, it will only improve old hair and revive some old ones that were going to jump ship. It is still worth doing.

sh!T Confirmed by princessrambo in ***! Must be true now!:eek::D

TO YOUNG TO RETIRE
10-19-2013, 02:52 PM
guys i am attaching some pictures pre op and immediatelly after op....(first session

i was rolling the scalp all directions 10 times with 1.5mm 192 needles roller for about an hour.(it was hurting very very much and i had to wait sometimes)

the scalp became red with blood drops (like a lot i think)

please have a moment and evaluate if the looks of it are what we are supposed to do as they did in the study....

i prepared it with saline and bedatine,...i also cleaned it slightly with betadine afterwards....

by the way i buzzed the head first time after years so i will monitor clearly the progress with pics and share with you...i dont like how i look buzzed cause i am receded...

please see and evaluate...
is this wounding sufficient...are there any dangers for my skin? i am slightly scared but i want to succeed as in the dermaroller study.

first three pics pre op second three after
thanks
-john

MackJames
10-19-2013, 03:03 PM
guys i am attaching some pictures pre op and immediatelly after op....(first session

i was rolling the scalp all directions 10 times with 1.5mm 192 needles roller for about an hour.(it was hurting very very much and i had to wait sometimes)

the scalp became red with blood drops (like a lot i think)

please have a moment and evaluate if the looks of it are what we are supposed to do as they did in the study....

i prepared it with saline and bedatine,...i also cleaned it slightly with betadine afterwards....

by the way i buzzed the head first time after years so i will monitor clearly the progress with pics and share with you...i dont like how i look buzzed cause i am receded...

please see and evaluate...
is this wounding sufficient...are there any dangers for my skin? i am slightly scared but i want to succeed as in the dermaroller study.

first three pics pre op second three after
thanks
-john

Great pics. I look forward to following your progress. I've been rolling for about eight weeks and I can't really tell if there has been any improvements. However, last night my wife looked at me strangely while i was playing with my daughter on the floor and asked to take a look at my scalp.

She said "oh my god, you have a ton of little hairs sprouting all over". She then said, "whatever your doing, it's working". Mind you she isn't the type to stroke my ego. I was actually taken aback by her comments.

MackJames
10-19-2013, 03:12 PM
This pic was taken last night. The area in question has been thin for some time. You can see the tiny little hairs. My hair is white and it has been difficult getting a good pic.

TO YOUNG TO RETIRE
10-19-2013, 03:39 PM
i can clearly see.congrats they look normal size..keep doing it to grow them ;)

i am considering to numb my head the next session to roll it relaxed...

:)

MackJames
10-19-2013, 04:14 PM
i can clearly see.congrats they look normal size..keep doing it to grow them ;)

i am considering to numb my head the next session to roll it relaxed...

:)


Thank you. I don't want to be delusional and see things that aren't there. I admit my eye does tear up when I roll. I tell myself, push through the pain.

For the record, I apply minoxidil about thirty minutes after rolling and have since I started. I've never experienced any side effects. I've also been using niz the following three days directly after rolling, sometimes within twenty minutes of rolling.

StayThick
10-19-2013, 04:41 PM
Thank you. I don't want to be delusional and see things that aren't there. I admit my eye does tear up when I roll. I tell myself, push through the pain.

For the record, I apply minoxidil about thirty minutes after rolling and have since I started. I've never experienced any side effects. I've also been using niz the following three days directly after rolling, sometimes within twenty minutes of rolling.

This. I force myself to get passed the pain and it's not easy. The things I would to keep/regrow my hair.

LevonHelms
10-19-2013, 08:28 PM
guys i am attaching some pictures pre op and immediatelly after op....(first session

i was rolling the scalp all directions 10 times with 1.5mm 192 needles roller for about an hour.(it was hurting very very much and i had to wait sometimes)

the scalp became red with blood drops (like a lot i think)

please have a moment and evaluate if the looks of it are what we are supposed to do as they did in the study....

i prepared it with saline and bedatine,...i also cleaned it slightly with betadine afterwards....

by the way i buzzed the head first time after years so i will monitor clearly the progress with pics and share with you...i dont like how i look buzzed cause i am receded...

please see and evaluate...
is this wounding sufficient...are there any dangers for my skin? i am slightly scared but i want to succeed as in the dermaroller study.

first three pics pre op second three after
thanks
-john

That's pretty much exactly what my head looks like post roll. I knock it out in 15 minutes tho, seems like you may be prolonging the agony lol. I've found that after the first 10 or 20 rolls adrenaline kicks in and the pain is suddenly much less.


This pic was taken last night. The area in question has been thin for some time. You can see the tiny little hairs. My hair is white and it has been difficult getting a good pic.

Looking good Mack!

brunobald
10-20-2013, 01:26 AM
Mack, that is quite something. Did you use any treatments in the months and years prior to using the dermaroller?

TO YOUNG TO RETIRE
10-20-2013, 02:20 AM
tomorrow guys i am applying minox and in 6 days i will roll harder but i will use some numb cream to do the job correct.....

hope it works... 11 more rolls and if it works i will need like 2500grafts to be nw1 ;)

TO YOUNG TO RETIRE
10-20-2013, 03:51 AM
hey guys how many days after roll the scabs fall ,the red dots disappear//i think people are looking me strange...

is it illusion or my hair where i wounded hard feels strong?

TO YOUNG TO RETIRE
10-20-2013, 04:51 AM
guys i also massage slightly everywhile and my galea is becoming really elastic....

lets see how it plays i feel positive.

MackJames
10-20-2013, 06:12 AM
Mack, that is quite something. Did you use any treatments in the months and years prior to using the dermaroller?

I had been on fin for about a year and a half but have been off it for roughly eleven month. I ceased using fin because my wife and I wanted to have another baby and I felt the quality and quantity of my semen was lower.(TMI?) I look forward to telling the new kid over and over again about the sacrifice I made for their existence. My doctor didn't recommend I discontinue, I decided on my own.

A little over a year ago I started using minoxidil regularly after having tried it a couple years back. It's so cheap now I thought what the hell. About three weeks ago my doctor prescribed 2% keto and I have been using it three times a week. Finally, my doctor prescribed clobetasol foam for my psoriasis and occasionally I will put it on my scalp.

MackJames
10-20-2013, 07:58 AM
hey guys how many days after roll the scabs fall ,the red dots disappear//i think people are looking me strange...

is it illusion or my hair where i wounded hard feels strong?

I "feel" the hair is stronger but it's hard to say for certain. I roll to a similar degree as the example pics posted by other members. Immediately after rolling I wipe down the scalp with alcohol pads and let the alcohol dissipate. Scab formation seems to be minimal to none.


Staythick, I hear you, brother. I'm in the same boat. My eyes tear up something fierce.

hiilikeyourbeard
10-20-2013, 08:03 AM
lol when I roll I stomp on the ground as I'm doing it, and just squint and cuss the whole time. freakin hurts, man.

DesperateOne
10-20-2013, 09:19 AM
This thread has become a disaster.

Sogeking
10-20-2013, 12:35 PM
Hi guys, I'm really crossing my fingers this works to some extent.

Can you tell me how long does it take for the wounds to heal? Now this is dermaroller primarily used to remove scars on skin( acne scarring) however does it actually leave scars with such aggressive roling you guys do?

Also MackJames, why are you putting alcohol after rolling? To disinfect your scalp? If you are doing it to disinfect it is better to use pads just go over the wounds with alcohol on this cotton pads. No use for so much alcohol going to bloodstream.

Also when do you apply minox? Immediately after rolling or later in the week.

Thank you for answers.

TO YOUNG TO RETIRE
10-20-2013, 12:50 PM
minox twice a day 24 h after rolling.alcohol is for to whipe the blood and diminish scub formation. no scars....
Hi guys, I'm really crossing my fingers this works to some extent.

Can you tell me how long does it take for the wounds to heal? Now this is dermaroller primarily used to remove scars on skin( acne scarring) however does it actually leave scars with such aggressive roling you guys do?

Also MackJames, why are you putting alcohol after rolling? To disinfect your scalp? If you are doing it to disinfect it is better to use pads just go over the wounds with alcohol on this cotton pads. No use for so much alcohol going to bloodstream.

Also when do you apply minox? Immediately after rolling or later in the week.

Thank you for answers.

MackJames
10-20-2013, 01:16 PM
Hi guys, I'm really crossing my fingers this works to some extent.

Can you tell me how long does it take for the wounds to heal? Now this is dermaroller primarily used to remove scars on skin( acne scarring) however does it actually leave scars with such aggressive roling you guys do?

Also MackJames, why are you putting alcohol after rolling? To disinfect your scalp? If you are doing it to disinfect it is better to use pads just go over the wounds with alcohol on this cotton pads. No use for so much alcohol going to bloodstream.

Also when do you apply minox? Immediately after rolling or later in the week.

Thank you for answers.

The alcohol pads I use are very small, about an inch squared, and I use no more than two. I use the pads to wipe away the blood and disinfect the scalp after rolling. I also have a bottle of alcohol that I use to clean the roller which I do immediately after rolling.

Most people apply minox twenty-four hours after rolling as the study indicated but I apply it an hour or so later and have not experienced any side effects. I always roll at night so even if I don't apply minoxidil that night after I've already applied it once that day. I resume normal application the following morning.

TO YOUNG TO RETIRE
10-21-2013, 02:13 AM
guys i am sure most users here wont roll enough to the level of mild erythema claimed by the scients of the study...they say they stopped till they saw first blood drops ....

so we must apply sth to counter attack pain but not interfer with the process...

i am thinking of topical xilocaine gel...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lidocaine

MackJames
10-21-2013, 05:07 AM
A quick note, I'm noticing the tiny hairs sprouting primarily in the areas of my scalp where the hair thinning is the least and most recent. Could be that the areas where the hair has only recently begun thinning, relative to other thinning areas, is more likely to see immediate benefits from rolling. Pure speculation on my part but it is a possiblility.

Stay strong and keep being consistent, brothers. I'll post more pics tonight.

Axel
10-21-2013, 04:24 PM
guys i am sure most users here wont roll enough to the level of mild erythema claimed by the scients of the study...they say they stopped till they saw first blood drops ....

so we must apply sth to counter attack pain but not interfer with the process...

i am thinking of topical xilocaine gel...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lidocaine

Google for dermarolling + EMLA cream

EMLA is what doctors and nurses use for numbing

TO YOUNG TO RETIRE
10-24-2013, 02:25 AM
i just bought a xilocaine gel 4.5 euros....it is for numbing...:) lets see how it works..second sessio for me on sunday morning.

up to now i can report ....

tremendous increase in galea elasticity...its like omg huge the difference...now is as elastic as my donor area....before it was like a brick...

Google for dermarolling + EMLA cream

EMLA is what doctors and nurses use for numbing

TO YOUNG TO RETIRE
10-24-2013, 03:44 AM
important


the pics with the results in the study of the guy with success and grown hair were taken at the time of the last check 8 month after first roll



the results are promising and named as continued growth after end of rolls...



so guys do it 12 times as in the study and you will gain growth from which growth you will see the best benefits months after ending it.....



the small hairs noticed at sixth week they were monitored with specific cameras and shaved haeds...

hiilikeyourbeard
10-24-2013, 04:38 AM
i just bought a xilocaine gel 4.5 euros....it is for numbing...:) lets see how it works..second sessio for me on sunday morning.

up to now i can report ....

tremendous increase in galea elasticity...its like omg huge the difference...now is as elastic as my donor area....before it was like a brick...

are you doing exercises to loosen your galea?

chimera
10-24-2013, 04:55 AM
I have heard that before... but where does it says so?

fred970
10-24-2013, 06:03 AM
No results then? RIP dermarolling.

TO YOUNG TO RETIRE
10-24-2013, 06:14 AM
fred what is wrong?

please my friend put your brain and understand..

results are real but they happen months after ending the 3 month rolling as in the study ...

they say it clearly

continued growth was sustained when they met the patients months after...and it is clear in the pic...the second hairy one is not at 12th week but at the time they met them months after completing the study....

it makes absolute sence.....
No results then? RIP dermarolling.

vanityhair
10-24-2013, 08:16 AM
Finally beginning to see some vellus hair action around the temples and hairline; nothing significant but quite a few small hairs.

Although I am thinning all over in a diffuse pattern, I am concentrating most of my rolling to my hairline, mainly because my hair is long on top and it's difficult to get at it with the roller. Are others having this problem? My thought is that if I manage to get some terminals going around the hairline, then I should shave my head short and go for it all over my head, but until then I really don't want to have short hair.

LevonHelms
10-24-2013, 08:34 AM
fred what is wrong?

please my friend put your brain and understand..

results are real but they happen months after ending the 3 month rolling as in the study ...

they say it clearly

continued growth was sustained when they met the patients months after...and it is clear in the pic...the second hairy one is not at 12th week but at the time they met them months after completing the study....

it makes absolute sence.....

Fred likes to go around pissing in everybody's Cheerios. He's a miserable tool, ignore him.

bigentries
10-24-2013, 08:48 AM
important


the pics with the results in the study of the guy with success and grown hair were taken at the time of the last check 8 month after first roll



the results are promising and named as continued growth after end of rolls...



so guys do it 12 times as in the study and you will gain growth from which growth you will see the best benefits months after ending it.....



the small hairs noticed at sixth week they were monitored with specific cameras and shaved haeds...
Where are people getting that the results are from 8 months? Why would they label them as 12 week pics in the first place?

So they stopped after 12 weeks and then it kept growing?
If that's the case, why did the minox-onlyguys never went back to baseline? 5 months after discontinuing minox is enough to see massive shedding

There's something fishy here

TO YOUNG TO RETIRE
10-24-2013, 08:52 AM
yes it kept cause the effect they took advantage of was platelet stem cells growth factors released during wounding and increased by minox....

propably the minox only guys were non good responders or 3 month was not significant for minox?or we dont know if they dropped slightly after?


Where are people getting that the results are from 8 months? Why would they label them as 12 week pics in the first place?

So they stopped after 12 weeks and then it kept growing?
If that's the case, why did the minox-onlyguys never went back to baseline? 5 months after discontinuing minox is enough to see massive shedding

There's something fishy here

bigentries
10-24-2013, 09:06 AM
yes it kept cause the effect they took advantage of was platelet stem cells growth factors released during wounding and increased by minox....

propably the minox only guys were non good responders or 3 month was not significant for minox?or we dont know if they dropped slightly after?


Can't see anything there

No you don't get the point. If the dermarolling group pics were taken after 8 months, then I guess the minox only group was taken after 8 months too.

Even them show some regrowth, a regrowth that is impossible to sustain after discontinuing minox for 5 months

Anyway, labeling an 8 month pic as a 3 month results is plain wrong, I doubt anyone is going to see anything at 8 months, it's pretty clear at this point that the study was very biased or even completely fabricated

For me, I'm at week 10, still nothing. Will give it another month, maybe post pics and quit

PinotQ
10-24-2013, 10:16 AM
The study is confusing in that they say they clipped the hair at the area being counted at both the beginning and again at the 12 week mark, yet neither set of pics seem to show that, with the possible exception of the minoxidil only photo. And they say that they questioned the subjects at the 8 month mark but they do not say they took pictures. So this is confusing. However, in line with what Too Young To Retire is pointing out, I believe the platelet stem cells growth factors theory is entirely possible. I say this b/c I had acell/prp before and my hair started looking thicker and healthier at the 4 month mark. I can't say for sure if I had new hairs but I can definitely say I had cosmetically visible hairs at the 4 month mark that were very light and weak at the beginning. So I think what happens is that all of the hairs that are savable get thicker, darker and longer. I was told at the beginning of my procedure that I would not notice anything before 4 months although I'm sure a high powered close-up would detect growth much earlier. I'm not saying that weekly derma-rolling does the same thing but I think it is entirely plausible given the theoretical science behind it and given my particular experience. It may even be better than acell/prp b/c of the consistent weekly rolling and recruitment of stem cells/growth factors. I also note that the reason I googled this blog was b/c of Dr. Rassman at the balding blog (who notoriously downplays new possibilities) who said in his blog that he was actually thinking about offering this type of derma-rolling procedure. We know from the research that wounded skin/scalp in a favorable environment can induce denovo hair growth so while minoxidil may not be a powerful enough changer of the environment to accomplish that, it may very well be powerful enough to save damaged hair at a much stronger and more consistent level than any of the other options we have to date.

TO YOUNG TO RETIRE
10-24-2013, 11:28 AM
thats why the growth came later after the end of 12th week...




The study is confusing in that they say they clipped the hair at the area being counted at both the beginning and again at the 12 week mark, yet neither set of pics seem to show that, with the possible exception of the minoxidil only photo. And they say that they questioned the subjects at the 8 month mark but they do not say they took pictures. So this is confusing. However, in line with what Too Young To Retire is pointing out, I believe the platelet stem cells growth factors theory is entirely possible. I say this b/c I had acell/prp before and my hair started looking thicker and healthier at the 4 month mark. I can't say for sure if I had new hairs but I can definitely say I had cosmetically visible hairs at the 4 month mark that were very light and weak at the beginning. So I think what happens is that all of the hairs that are savable get thicker, darker and longer. I was told at the beginning of my procedure that I would not notice anything before 4 months although I'm sure a high powered close-up would detect growth much earlier. I'm not saying that weekly derma-rolling does the same thing but I think it is entirely plausible given the theoretical science behind it and given my particular experience. It may even be better than acell/prp b/c of the consistent weekly rolling and recruitment of stem cells/growth factors. I also note that the reason I googled this blog was b/c of Dr. Rassman at the balding blog (who notoriously downplays new possibilities) who said in his blog that he was actually thinking about offering this type of derma-rolling procedure. We know from the research that wounded skin/scalp in a favorable environment can induce denovo hair growth so while minoxidil may not be a powerful enough changer of the environment to accomplish that, it may very well be powerful enough to save damaged hair at a much stronger and more consistent level than any of the other options we have to date.

TO YOUNG TO RETIRE
10-24-2013, 11:46 AM
Q: How soon will see results and how long will they last?
A: New hair growth becomes visible in most cases within 6-8 months after ACell treatment


from Dr that does prp and acell///

so if i am not mistaken prp and acell injections mimic natures platelet rich plasma and growth factos etc....

thats why in the study the hairy guys is pictured at 8 month...

and you know what?

i believe that even after they kept growing...

so all of you keep rolling and replicate the staudy as close as possible and then wait just wait .....

vraf
10-25-2013, 04:27 AM
Hi Guys,

Can anyone please help:

1. What is the most suitable dermaroller brand recommended? links to an
online stores will be very helpful.

2. The wounds on the scalp must be very visible through the thin hair, how do
you avoid that everyone can see it and of course respond?

3. Is it better to have a long hair or very short?

4. How can I know that I rolled hard enough and how hard do I need to
press?

If there's a post with answers to the above I'll be glad to receive the link.

Thanks a lot!

clandestine
10-25-2013, 06:21 AM
Wounds on the scalp aren't very visible; I have ashamed head and they disappear mostly by the next day, 1.5mm roller.

Short hair is better.

You'll start to see little blood dots, this is usually an indication you're going hard enough. Your scalp should be red and irritated.

Pentarou
10-25-2013, 08:12 AM
Perfect response, clan.

I also find the redness gone by 24 hours (when I know it's minox time). You'll get dotty blood spots that dry very quickly. You'd have to really hurt yourself to draw rivulets of blood.

You can roll longer hair, but you have to take your time to avoid hair pulling. Takes a few weeks to get the technique nailed.

vraf
10-25-2013, 09:02 AM
Wounds on the scalp aren't very visible; I have ashamed head and they disappear mostly by the next day, 1.5mm roller.

Short hair is better.

You'll start to see little blood dots, this is usually an indication you're going hard enough. Your scalp should be red and irritated.

Thanks Clandestine!
Regarding the roller- can you please recommend reliable manufacturers?

clandestine
10-25-2013, 09:52 AM
Thanks Clandestine!
Regarding the roller- can you please recommend reliable manufacturers?

Post was supposed to say shaved, not ashamed lol. Autocorrect.

Bought mine off eBay.com

TO YOUNG TO RETIRE
10-27-2013, 02:40 AM
how can i disinfect my roller guys?

TO YOUNG TO RETIRE
10-27-2013, 02:51 AM
guys i am going to disinfect my roller like that..

i pour on it tap water then alcohol 93degree and the leave it for an our in the alcohol////

then use it.

is it enough?

LevonHelms
10-27-2013, 12:24 PM
guys i am going to disinfect my roller like that..

i pour on it tap water then alcohol 93degree and the leave it for an our in the alcohol////

then use it.

is it enough?

Yeah man, that'll work. I clean mine with alcohol before and after and then rinse with tap water.

TO YOUNG TO RETIRE
10-28-2013, 01:37 AM
did yesteraday my sexonf session and i noticed.

slightly less pain less blood cause now my galea gets circulated and is elastic much more...


now on the improvments...

i buzzed the hair 9 das ago and my hair on top where i roll is slightly longer than hair on sides..

also hair appears darker at some areas and in the hairline there are some turbocharged v8 hairs much longer than any and very thick....


lets see how it goes...

Rekoj
10-28-2013, 09:17 AM
Has Anyone Tried Derma-rolling and Then Using Carprost ? Instead of Minox etc ?

gainspotter
10-28-2013, 10:00 AM
did yesteraday my sexonf session and i noticed.

slightly less pain less blood cause now my galea gets circulated and is elastic much more...


now on the improvments...

i buzzed the hair 9 das ago and my hair on top where i roll is slightly longer than hair on sides..

also hair appears darker at some areas and in the hairline there are some turbocharged v8 hairs much longer than any and very thick....


lets see how it goes...

Sounds positive. I'm noticing fine hairs come through now I have buzzed.
Keep it up.

Conpecia
10-28-2013, 10:59 AM
just finished what i believe is my 10th session, but i've started doing it every other week the past month so it's been around 12 weeks. significant increase in vellus hair all the way down to my juvenile hairline with some terminal hairs popping up here and there at my actual receded hairline and behind it. it will be interesting to see what happens over the next year with this treatment, if this vellus hair keeps improving and turns terminal i won't need to worry about my hairloss whatsoever anymore.

remember i've also been on dutasteride since august so please factor that in with my results, but i was on finasteride for 7 years and it never gave me anything at the hairline.

hellouser
10-28-2013, 11:29 AM
just finished what i believe is my 10th session, but i've started doing it every other week the past month so it's been around 12 weeks. significant increase in vellus hair all the way down to my juvenile hairline with some terminal hairs popping up here and there at my actual receded hairline and behind it. it will be interesting to see what happens over the next year with this treatment, if this vellus hair keeps improving and turns terminal i won't need to worry about my hairloss whatsoever anymore.

remember i've also been on dutasteride since august so please factor that in with my results, but i was on finasteride for 7 years and it never gave me anything at the hairline.

Any before/after pics?

hiilikeyourbeard
10-28-2013, 02:02 PM
just finished what i believe is my 10th session, but i've started doing it every other week the past month so it's been around 12 weeks. significant increase in vellus hair all the way down to my juvenile hairline with some terminal hairs popping up here and there at my actual receded hairline and behind it. it will be interesting to see what happens over the next year with this treatment, if this vellus hair keeps improving and turns terminal i won't need to worry about my hairloss whatsoever anymore.

remember i've also been on dutasteride since august so please factor that in with my results, but i was on finasteride for 7 years and it never gave me anything at the hairline.

that's awesome man!!

Dan26
10-28-2013, 02:24 PM
unreal con!

i know u were shedding quite a bit at one point, has it stopped / slowed? and was your hairline taking a hit during this?

Hicks
10-28-2013, 03:57 PM
Any before/after pics?

Your the photo guy? Please start a thread about how to take proper before and after photos. A standard? I don't know, maybe I'm throwing balloons in the air. Something to show progress? When I visited Cole they determined density and other stuff. I'm not sure what they did. It'll be interesting to see how I progressed after a few months if I go back.

Conpecia
10-28-2013, 04:04 PM
unreal con!

i know u were shedding quite a bit at one point, has it stopped / slowed? and was your hairline taking a hit during this?

yeah the shedding has slowed and my hairline took much more than a hit unfortunately, more like decimation. but i still see TONS of tiny, tiny fuzz in all frontal areas affected by mpb, as long as it never gets slick bald i have hope.

hellouser i have before pics but they suck and the after pics would not be nearly cosmetic enough to show improvement. as i said before i'll absolutely post pics if things get interesting enough but it's still very early

LevonHelms
10-28-2013, 08:45 PM
just finished what i believe is my 10th session, but i've started doing it every other week the past month so it's been around 12 weeks. significant increase in vellus hair all the way down to my juvenile hairline with some terminal hairs popping up here and there at my actual receded hairline and behind it. it will be interesting to see what happens over the next year with this treatment, if this vellus hair keeps improving and turns terminal i won't need to worry about my hairloss whatsoever anymore.

remember i've also been on dutasteride since august so please factor that in with my results, but i was on finasteride for 7 years and it never gave me anything at the hairline.

Right on Con, I'm seeing the same thing. Some of the vellus are starting to pigment and lengthen out.

Pentarou
10-29-2013, 03:03 PM
just finished what i believe is my 10th session, but i've started doing it every other week the past month so it's been around 12 weeks. significant increase in vellus hair all the way down to my juvenile hairline with some terminal hairs popping up here and there at my actual receded hairline and behind it. it will be interesting to see what happens over the next year with this treatment, if this vellus hair keeps improving and turns terminal i won't need to worry about my hairloss whatsoever anymore.

remember i've also been on dutasteride since august so please factor that in with my results, but i was on finasteride for 7 years and it never gave me anything at the hairline.
Con, what's your current Norwood, out of curiosity?

35YrsAfter
10-31-2013, 01:02 PM
We had a patient in yesterday who told me he saw a dramatic difference in the quality of his hair from dermarolling minoxidil.

I think this thread is over 180 pages, so this has probably been posted here before... Research that lead to the formation of "Follica" supports the following:

Wnt is involved in the healing of wounds and can be used to produce new hair follicles. The experiment showed that follicles can develop when a wound heals, and that the process can be manipulated to greatly increase the number of follicles. In the study, scientists removed small sections of skin from mice. This spurred stem cell activity in places where the skin was removed. However, when the scientists blocked the Wnt gene, follicles didn't grow. When Wnt was stimulated, the skin healed without scarring and eventually had all the same characteristics -- hair follicles, glands, appearance -- of normal skin. These new follicles also behaved normally, producing hair in the same way as other follicles.

35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office
forhair.com
Cole Hair Transplant
1045 Powers Place
Alpharetta, Georgia 30009
Phone 678-566-1011
email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
Please feel free to call or email me with any questions. Ask for Chuck

Conpecia
11-02-2013, 08:39 AM
Con, what's your current Norwood, out of curiosity?

i'd say i'm nw3 vertex or just under that. but the problem is i'm still receding even though i do see the vellus hairs. i'm on dut but it hasn't kicked in yet, still shedding way more than i was on fin years ago. nothing to do but ride it out.

Pentarou
11-02-2013, 09:08 AM
Thanks for the reply, and best of luck with the Dut, I'm sure that you'll recover from the shed before too long! Hope the vellus hair turns terminal as well.

MackJames
11-03-2013, 10:54 AM
Pics

MackJames
11-03-2013, 10:55 AM
Pic 2

MackJames
11-03-2013, 10:56 AM
Pic 3

MackJames
11-03-2013, 10:57 AM
Pic 4. Sorry for the multiple posts. I wasn't able to put the pics all on one post. I'm getting small hairs mostly in the mid-scalp.

LevonHelms
11-03-2013, 02:00 PM
Pic 4. Sorry for the multiple posts. I wasn't able to put the pics all on one post. I'm getting small hairs mostly in the mid-scalp.

That's great Mack! How many weeks and what size you using?

MackJames
11-03-2013, 05:23 PM
That's great Mack! How many weeks and what size you using?



I've been rolling once a week for 11wks. I use a 1.5 mm roller I bought from amazon. I had my hair buzzed down to a one and I had to let my hair grow out before I could take pics. I have noticed stubble on the mid-anterior of my scalp and some around my left temple.

MackJames
11-04-2013, 02:05 PM
For fun I decided to use some light brown dermmatch I had lying around. I have sliver grey but it looks to blue.

clandestine
11-04-2013, 06:37 PM
Mack; you need before pictures, really.

broseph
11-04-2013, 10:10 PM
So I decided to try dermarolling back in august, around the same time I started minox (actually nanox). Below is my regimen and results, which I think aren't bad!

Dermarolling for 10-1 week sessions. The after pics were taken 1 week after my 10th session. From here on out, I'm switching to a bi-weekly routine. Each session was about 15 minutes. Bled, but not quite as much as some other people on here.

Regimen: Pretty much all DS Lab products. No this isn't a promotion for DS Labs, I simply just have a belief that their products are meant to be used together. I've used the shampoo and conditioner for about 2 years and think they work great for strength.

Instead of minox, I use the DS nanox. Its suppose to be similar to minox but lighter molecular weight. I started the nanox about 2 weeks before rolling.

I use DS shampoo in morning and the conditioner when I took a quick shower after the gym in the evening. Nanox is applied morning/night, except I waited the 24 hours after rolling.

Results: I would say regarding the front, nothing at all yet, at least noticeable. Regarding the back, very, very good regrowth. Whats nice is that my hair isn't quite as long in the afters, and it still looks better.

Conpecia
11-04-2013, 10:29 PM
so you'd never taken minox prior to then? bummer. congrats on regrowth though, but i don't think we can attribute it to dermarolling as easily as someone who has been on minox for a long time

broseph
11-04-2013, 10:48 PM
I took minox up until about Jan, for about 1 year or so, then decided to quit just to save money and to essentially give up and not worry about my hair. When this trial started up I figured it wouldn't hurt to try, so I started back up in August. The one problem I had and I PLEAD other people to do is always take before pics when starting a regimen. Unfortunately, I didnt have the foresight during my previous regimens so I never could fully see the effects. The eyeball test just simply isn't enough.

I'd have to say for just 3 months, I'm happy with these results.

MackJames
11-05-2013, 05:55 PM
Mack; you need before pictures, really.

Im going through photos of the last time I had my hair grown out. Here is one from April

MackJames
11-05-2013, 06:18 PM
This was taken the same day.

FearTheLoss
11-05-2013, 10:40 PM
holy hell boys, add histogen or some better growth stimulators than minox..maybe bim! and we have the cure

35YrsAfter
11-06-2013, 06:39 AM
So I decided to try dermarolling back in august, around the same time I started minox (actually nanox). Below is my regimen and results, which I think aren't bad!


Looking good!!!

35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office
forhair.com
Cole Hair Transplant
1045 Powers Place
Alpharetta, Georgia 30009
Phone 678-566-1011
email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
Please feel free to call or email me with any questions. Ask for Chuck

crafter
11-06-2013, 11:42 AM
holy hell boys, add histogen or some better growth stimulators than minox..maybe bim! and we have the cure

hmmm....bit optimistic.

LevonHelms
11-06-2013, 11:54 AM
Good improvement guys, keep it up!

vraf
11-06-2013, 01:08 PM
What are you guys doing when finished rolling, are you disinfecting the scalp in any way?
Are you washing the scalp with water?
Do you wipe the scalp with something special or just a towel/wet towel?
In what directions do you move your roller?
How many times do you run over each area?
How much time it usually takes?

Thanks

clandestine
11-06-2013, 05:10 PM
I feel minoxidil is giving me tinnitus; is this a known side effect?

Should I taper off? I want my hair, but not at the risk of my hearing.

hellouser
11-06-2013, 07:05 PM
I feel minoxidil is giving me tinnitus; is this a known side effect?

Should I taper off? I want my hair, but not at the risk of my hearing.

Does it stop once you get off Minox? I've had tinnitus for the past couple years as well, but Tinnitus didn't start until about 6 months after starting Minox.

clandestine
11-06-2013, 09:36 PM
Does it stop once you get off Minox? I've had tinnitus for the past couple years as well, but Tinnitus didn't start until about 6 months after starting Minox.

I can't be sure, hell. It's only started after being on Minox now for 7weeks, every day 5%.

I feel I should taper off over four weeks or so rather than stop altogether, though.

StayThick
11-07-2013, 07:36 AM
Does it stop once you get off Minox? I've had tinnitus for the past couple years as well, but Tinnitus didn't start until about 6 months after starting Minox.

I've never heard of this as a reaction to minox. I have been on it over 6 years and have never had that problem. Not saying it isn't possible though.

Only side I noticed from minox is foreheads wrinkles over the years where prior there was none, eye bags, forming of crows feet, and eye puffiness.

Hate the sides but it's a price I'm willing to pay if I maintain which is what I think minox is doing for me at this point..

hellouser
11-07-2013, 08:40 AM
I've never heard of this as a reaction to minox. I have been on it over 6 years and have never had that problem. Not saying it isn't possible though.

Only side I noticed from minox is foreheads wrinkles over the years where prior there was none, eye bags, forming of crows feet, and eye puffiness.

Hate the sides but it's a price I'm willing to pay if I maintain which is what I think minox is doing for me at this point..

I'm not suggesting that my tinnitus is due minoxidil. I have listened to excessively loud music for very long periods of time when I was younger (lots electronic music, DJing, etc)

But its amazing how some of us value our hair more than our skin.... I do too to be honest.

Hairismylife
11-07-2013, 08:44 AM
I'm about to buy a dermaroller. However I have some questions.

I see one named "MT Dermaroller" 1.5mm, is that ok?

Should I start with minox also or see the dermarolling result first before using?

What Should I use to sterilize the roller? Simply alcohol ok? and my scalp also

Thanks

Dan26
11-07-2013, 10:49 AM
But its amazing how some of us value our hair more than our skin.... I do too to be honest.

Man if I had good skin and decent head shape I don't think I'd care nearly as much about losing my hair...or I would have atleast attempted the shaved head already

TO YOUNG TO RETIRE
11-07-2013, 10:56 AM
what can we assume guys is the lowest safe dose for dermarolling to work but to avoid aging face from minox?

gainspotter
11-07-2013, 11:56 AM
Man if I had good skin and decent head shape I don't think I'd care nearly as much about losing my hair...or I would have atleast attempted the shaved head already

Agreed. Guess some of us are doubly unlucky.
I will say though since starting retin a micro cream after the bad effects minox had on my skin, I don't think my face has ever looked so good in my 20s.
May start back on the minox if the cream still protects my skin.

TO YOUNG TO RETIRE
11-07-2013, 11:58 AM
it protects it cause minox hidroxilase inhibition is adding up...

also everynight put some pure ascorbic acid serum 20%
Agreed. Guess some of us are doubly unlucky.
I will say though since starting retin a micro cream after the bad effects minox had on my skin, I don't think my face has ever looked so good in my 20s.
May start back on the minox if the cream still protects my skin.

Conpecia
11-07-2013, 01:13 PM
yeah i'm starting to see some of the bad effects from minox on my face. eyes look a little wearier, smile lines forming. jesus it's insane what we'll do to keep hair.

Dan26
11-07-2013, 01:17 PM
Agreed. Guess some of us are doubly unlucky.
I will say though since starting retin a micro cream after the bad effects minox had on my skin, I don't think my face has ever looked so good in my 20s.
May start back on the minox if the cream still protects my skin.

I started using retin a micro gel right when i started minox as preventative measure, it's a smart idea man.

Its one of those things that you will only notice overtime ie years down the road youll say 'hey my skin is still the same or better'...atleast thats what ice seen from testimonials online..i guess the retin a postive effects are similar to the minox negative effects in that they slowly creep up on you lol

Conpecia
11-07-2013, 01:34 PM
I started using retin a micro gel right when i started minox as preventative measure, it's a smart idea man.

Its one of those things that you will only notice overtime ie years down the road youll say 'hey my skin is still the same or better'...atleast thats what ice seen from testimonials online..i guess the retin a postive effects are similar to the minox negative effects in that they slowly creep up on you lol

this is a good call, i think i'm gonna get some of this right now...

hellouser
11-07-2013, 02:26 PM
Howcome none of you guys are using your dermaroller on wrinkled areas?? You've already got dermarollers....

Dan26
11-07-2013, 02:45 PM
Howcome none of you guys are using your dermaroller on wrinkled areas?? You've already got dermarollers....

im gonna start using a 0.5mm one...not 100% sure how to go about it

possibly mornings before i hop in the shower, then moisterize after...gotta look into it

hellouser
11-07-2013, 02:55 PM
im gonna start using a 0.5mm one...not 100% sure how to go about it

possibly mornings before i hop in the shower, then moisterize after...gotta look into it

I think a smaller dermaroller would be better... isn't the skin underneath the eyes supposed to be thinner, hence the dark circles which is formed by the blood? I'd be deathly afraid to dermaroll there... at least with a 1.5mm roller.

Dan26
11-07-2013, 02:58 PM
I think a smaller dermaroller would be better... isn't the skin underneath the eyes supposed to be thinner, hence the dark circles which is formed by the blood? I'd be deathly afraid to dermaroll there... at least with a 1.5mm roller.

ya i woudl roll light around the eyes

basically just do forehead, laughing lines, and lightly under eyes with 0.5mm roller

doinmyheadin
11-07-2013, 04:48 PM
Do you guys know there are old threads from other hairloss forums doing derma rolling. I just came across one from 2009 on hairl0sst@lk where someone was using histogen reginica with a derma roller.

So 4 years later has anyone had any worthwhile results?

gainspotter
11-07-2013, 04:49 PM
I have a 0.5 roller that I'm gonna use for my face but the micro cream is alls I can tolerate lately as its been peeling my old skin off.
So far my face is looking massively better than when I was on minox.

Conpecia
11-12-2013, 09:19 PM
looks like we're burning out. no real results for me at about 14 weeks. vellus has basically frozen where it is. sigh.

win200
11-12-2013, 09:49 PM
looks like we're burning out. no real results for me at about 14 weeks. vellus has basically frozen where it is. sigh.

I never really anticipated that this would add much in terms of cosmetically significant coverage. I think what we'll see is some very mild strengthening of vellus hair. But the really value here could be that dermarolling simply lends some support to hairs that are in the vicinity of becoming terminal; i.e., it gives hair some additional vitality/nourishment/whatever.

mrblazer
11-13-2013, 01:40 PM
We know this maybe no cure but I think it's worth adding to your treatments. It doesn't cost much and its not much hassle. I have been rolling about 12 weeks now and I would say it has thickened my hair in certain places. Some guys on *** are still getting great results from rolling. keep it up

win200
11-13-2013, 01:50 PM
We know this maybe no cure but I think it's worth adding to your treatments. It doesn't cost much and its not much hassle. I have been rolling about 12 weeks now and I would say it has thickened my hair in certain places. Some guys on *** are still getting great results from rolling. keep it up

Totally agreed. The help may be minimal in some cases, but it's there. And I don't think I've heard a single account of someone claiming that rolling caused a shed or loss that didn't grow back. So this seems like a no-brainer.

bigentries
11-13-2013, 02:20 PM
Totally agreed. The help may be minimal in some cases, but it's there. And I don't think I've heard a single account of someone claiming that rolling caused a shed or loss that didn't grow back. So this seems like a no-brainer.

But you are using minoxidil, a well proven treatment. It doesn't seem like dermarolling helps at all.
You can also do 20 situps as you apply because "there is no hassle" but it doesn't mean it works

And damage from dermarolling is well documented, most people in dermarolling forums only advice to doing it once a month

As for myself, this was week 13 and still nothing, one more week and I'm done, don't want to risk any damage from wounding or keep my hairline minox dependent

Atum
11-13-2013, 02:47 PM
As for myself, this was week 13 and still nothing, one more week and I'm done, don't want to risk any damage from wounding or keep my hairline minox dependent

Your quitting minox now and then or you don't normally use it?
Wondering, because i just started Rogaine and just like you don't want my hair to get dependent of it.

bigentries
11-13-2013, 02:51 PM
Your quitting minox now and then or you don't normally use it?
Wondering, because i just started Rogaine and just like you don't want my hair to get dependent of it.

I used rogaine for a year, 5 years ago. Normal shedding for around 2 months, I couldn't tell you about a shedding post-minox, since I started fin right away and had a horrible shedding for 6 months, but I blame fin for that

I didn't noticed any shedding this time

win200
11-13-2013, 02:55 PM
But you are using minoxidil, a well proven treatment. It doesn't seem like dermarolling helps at all.
You can also do 20 situps as you apply because "there is no hassle" but it doesn't mean it works

And damage from dermarolling is well documented, most people in dermarolling forums only advice to doing it once a month

As for myself, this was week 13 and still nothing, one more week and I'm done, don't want to risk any damage from wounding or keep my hairline minox dependent

Can you shoot a link to conversation about damage from dermarolling? Genuinely curious--hadn't heard that before.

bigentries
11-13-2013, 03:40 PM
Can you shoot a link to conversation about damage from dermarolling? Genuinely curious--hadn't heard that before.

This is the thread is very popular, although I would take it with a grain of salt
http://www.acne.org/messageboard/topic/316794-a-warning-about-dermarollers/

Here's another discussion about rolling frequency
http://www.acne.org/messageboard/topic/293563-amazing-results-with-dermaroller-but-why-does-he-use-it-so-often/

1hair
11-13-2013, 09:14 PM
looks like we're burning out. no real results for me at about 14 weeks. vellus has basically frozen where it is. sigh.

Quick question about your routine, are you applying minoxidil within the 24 hours of dermarolling? Is blood coming out of most of the pin holes, or only a few dots here and there?

I started 2 days ago, very painful but i was very firm and almost all spots had blood coming out of it. My minoxidil arrived on the same day so i did apply at the same time but in the future I will not.

I did not feel any side effects from the increased absorption of minoxidil but will refrain from using it within the 24 hour period regardless as I would like to mimic a study which worked to the letter.

Also i am a little confused as to why people believe minoxidil is a pge2 stimulant, as i have read studies claiming the complete opposite albeit they were old studies.

MackJames
11-14-2013, 08:14 AM
I'm still seeing/feeling stubble in thinner areas of my mid-anterior scalp. The change isn't dramatic but in my opinion this treatment does produce results.

lilpauly
11-15-2013, 02:53 PM
1,5 is to deep. going to .5

Chromeo
11-15-2013, 10:10 PM
1,5 is to deep. going to .5

I wouldn't expect really noticeable results on the 0.5mm but good luck.

cichlidfort
11-15-2013, 11:17 PM
I wouldn't expect really noticeable results on the 0.5mm but good luck.

Didn't the trial use 0.5mm with sufficient results?

Hairismylife
11-15-2013, 11:26 PM
1,5 is to deep. going to .5


Using 1.5 with less pressure is the same?

Chromeo
11-16-2013, 12:26 AM
Didn't the trial use 0.5mm with sufficient results?

Nope. 1.5mm.

"The shaven scalp was prepared with betadine and normal saline. A dermaroller of 1.5 mm sized needles was rolled over the affected areas of the scalp in a longitudinal, vertical, and diagonal directions until mild erythema was noted, which was considered as the end point of the procedure."

Hairismylife
11-18-2013, 06:44 AM
My dermaroller has arrived.
But so far the dermarolling result is good or not?
Can anyone dermarolling report your latest condition?

fred970
11-18-2013, 07:57 AM
We have absolutely no results so far.

Pentarou
11-18-2013, 08:23 AM
The Negativity Troll is back!!!!!

MackJames
11-18-2013, 08:25 AM
We have absolutely no results so far.

I've seen results. I've felt the stubble growing longer in the thinner areas. The growth is minor but it's there.

chimera
11-18-2013, 09:21 AM
I do am seeing results, so I think it works to a certain degree. But I am 100% convinced no one is going to get the awesome results the study suggested.

I have a lot, and I mean A LOT of new small hairs all over my scalp (they are not vellus, they are terminal hairs, but very, very small... maybe they will get as big as the rest of my hair, but if they do, it will probably take many, many hair cycles for it... probably even years).

Anyway... I'm going to continue... as I am more interested in see what it does for my existing hair...

DifferentLine
11-18-2013, 09:41 AM
Is there any use in starting this if I'm not using Minoxidil?

the_dude78
11-18-2013, 11:14 AM
My dermaroller has arrived.
But so far the dermarolling result is good or not?
Can anyone dermarolling report your latest condition?


I've been dermarolling since august and I do it every 3rd week. Shedding has gone way down and I see traces of my juvenile hairline now. So it works but it takes longer to see results than the 6 weeks the study suggests, and I doubt that the 12 week photos are really from week 12 - rather 6-8 months. I'm not saying i'm about to regrow all of my juvenile hairline, because that's just not realistic, but there is definitely progress.

I'm also on fin and has been for about 4 years, but even on fin I would be shedding. Especially in the past year or so I've been shedding a lot, and I could very easily pull out hairs. Around October shedding was reduced significantly and regrowth is now getting more and more obvious.. But it takes time to see results, more than 6 weeks.

And I use minox too of course, but only once a day as opposed to the 2 times a day in the study.

So you should definitely give a try, but give it more than 6 weeks.

greatjob!
11-18-2013, 11:36 AM
I really think there is something to this, I think we're just missing some key ingredient or have to work out some timing issue. This is why I'm hopeful that Follica will come out with something.

I too can feel small hairs on my scalp like little pricks when I run my fingers over my head, it feels similar to when I had my hair transplant when the hairs started growing. The difference is that the hair transplant hairs grew, but these little hairs seem to be stuck in limbo which is why I think we're missing something. I'm going to continue with this for a full year to see if they mature or not.

hellouser
11-18-2013, 11:59 AM
I really think there is something to this, I think we're just missing some key ingredient or have to work out some timing issue. This is why I'm hopeful that Follica will come out with something.

I too can feel small hairs on my scalp like little pricks when I run my fingers over my head, it feels similar to when I had my hair transplant when the hairs started growing. The difference is that the hair transplant hairs grew, but these little hairs seem to be stuck in limbo which is why I think we're missing something. I'm going to continue with this for a full year to see if they mature or not.

I'm still thinking its FGF-9... god damn it I wanna try it. If only we knew its safety.

LevonHelms
11-18-2013, 12:07 PM
My dermaroller has arrived.
But so far the dermarolling result is good or not?
Can anyone dermarolling report your latest condition?

Go for it man. I'm still seeing results, slow and steady. I plan to continue indefinitely. TheDude is right though, it doesn't happen overnight. Just be consistent.

greatjob!
11-18-2013, 12:11 PM
I'm still thinking its FGF-9... god damn it I wanna try it. If only we knew its safety.

Yeah I wouldn't try it myself since it's related to tumor stimulation

clandestine
11-18-2013, 03:38 PM
Yeah I wouldn't try it myself since it's related to tumor stimulation

Maybe the tumors will have hair on them.

StayThick
11-18-2013, 04:31 PM
Does Kane's growth factors have FGF-9 in it?

Don't believe it does, but people that have used that haven't got tumors...

hellouser
11-18-2013, 05:07 PM
Does Kane's growth factors have FGF-9 in it?

Don't believe it does, but people that have used that haven't got tumors...

Nope, no FGF-9. It contains nanog and VEGF i think.

bigentries
11-19-2013, 03:08 PM
OK, so this was week 14, and I had no cosmetic improvement

However, I'm starting to see SOME peach fuzz, and around 4 tiny vellus hairs

Still nothing close to what the study suggested, but I'm questioning whether to keep going until the end of year or not. Because I know my first rollings weren't deep enough

Tacola
11-20-2013, 01:06 AM
Hi,

I know I could read through the whole thread, but hopefully someone can sum up things for me very briefly. I have had a long break from this site, but visited to day and found this thread interesting.

My questions are:

- What kind of dermaroller is suggested? How do I use it?
- Is it ok to use it with Minox?
- How often do you use the dermaroller? As often as I apply Minox? I apply it 1-2 times a day.
- Are there any sideeffects?

In advance, many thanks for the update. In my opinion the sollution might as well come from the forum as from one of the companies. Keep it going!

Chromeo
11-20-2013, 02:30 AM
- 1.5mm needle dermaroller. Some argue 192 needle rollers are better than 540 needles.
- Yes, in fact you are supposed to use it with Minox to replicate the study. However, it is suggested that you should avoid applying Minox until 24 hours after rolling for safety reasons.
- The dermaroller should be used once a week to replicate the study. You should be seeing blood if you are applying enough pressure with a 1.5mm roller.
- Slight redness and tenderness of the scalp for up to a day or so after a heavy rolling session. Some shedding of dead skin is fairly common.

Good luck!

TO YOUNG TO RETIRE
11-20-2013, 11:14 AM
guys i think i see new hairs

Hairismylife
11-20-2013, 06:31 PM
guys i think i see new hairs

Congratulation!
Do you roll to bleed or mild red?

saintsfan92344
11-22-2013, 05:31 AM
I just did my 3rd roll last night, rolled a little harder and drew more blood, used minox right after instead of 24 hrs later like I normally do and did not seem to have any extra minox effects. I roll 1x a week minox 1x per day, nizoral 2-3x week, multi vitamins, 5000mg msm and biotin, castor oil 2-3 times a week and onion juice 1-2x week(too smelly to do more but my scalp feels good after).
Cant say after 3 rolls there is anything for sure happening yet but my hair does seem to be growing faster but that could be vitamins also. going to start adding b12 to my minox.
It seems like quite a few people on other forums are having some results with this, I do think its the ones that roll the hardest and draw blood so the way I look at it is if I am in I am in and going to roll even harder next time, it is wounding that is supposed to be a huge factor after all, we might as well do some wounding

chimera
11-22-2013, 06:55 AM
faster hair growth is a classic effect of msm...

FearTheLoss
11-22-2013, 02:29 PM
Guys who have been seeing good results need to start a log on here with before and after photos instead of everything just getting lost in this thread

DifferentLine
11-22-2013, 04:30 PM
Just had my first sesh, didn't think it was that bad. Maybe I didn't roll hard enough? I didn't press down hard enough to bleed. I can definitely feel the irritation now though, its itchy.

Should my scalp be really sore after?

saintsfan92344
11-25-2013, 08:53 PM
pics of my bloody head for comparison just buzzed to a 1mm

oscar32
11-26-2013, 12:40 PM
Just had my first sesh, didn't think it was that bad. Maybe I didn't roll hard enough? I didn't press down hard enough to bleed. I can definitely feel the irritation now though, its itchy.

Should my scalp be really sore after?

Mine was sore.

Thinning87
11-26-2013, 04:00 PM
Guys who have been seeing good results need to start a log on here with before and after photos instead of everything just getting lost in this thread

We already had a log thread that was results only. No one has been posting in it lately

hellouser
11-26-2013, 04:03 PM
We already had a log thread that was results only. No one has been posting in it lately

There are a few active threads with results on the Hair Loss Talk forums.

KeepHoping
11-27-2013, 12:36 PM
Started around 4 months ago, was rolling once a week for 10 weeks then stopped but continued on minox, will probably resume rolling once every two weeks. I feel like there has been some improvement but nothing to jump out of your chair for, I will continue and see if I have further improvement. Things to note, I am on fin 1.25 daily and started taking MSM which I'm not convinced does anything but maybe make the quality of your hair a bit better. Kept the room and the lighting as consistent as possible, sorry for the weird crop job but he images are pretty good quality taken from an 8.1 megapixel digital camera (best I have)... Thats about it, good luck everyone.

After picture is on the left.

StayThick
11-27-2013, 01:24 PM
Started around 4 months ago, was rolling once a week for 10 weeks then stopped but continued on minox, will probably resume rolling once every two weeks. I feel like there has been some improvement but nothing to jump out of your chair for, I will continue and see if I have further improvement. Things to note, I am on fin 1.25 daily and started taking MSM which I'm not convinced does anything but maybe make the quality of your hair a bit better. Kept the room and the lighting as consistent as possible, sorry for the weird crop job but he images are pretty good quality taken from an 8.1 megapixel digital camera (best I have)... Thats about it, good luck everyone.

After picture is on the left.

Thanks for the comparison. I do see some improvement and on par with what we can except at best with this treatment. Keep it up man, hopefully you can gain even more coverage in time. Thanks for sharing.

hellouser
11-27-2013, 01:57 PM
Started around 4 months ago, was rolling once a week for 10 weeks then stopped but continued on minox, will probably resume rolling once every two weeks. I feel like there has been some improvement but nothing to jump out of your chair for, I will continue and see if I have further improvement. Things to note, I am on fin 1.25 daily and started taking MSM which I'm not convinced does anything but maybe make the quality of your hair a bit better. Kept the room and the lighting as consistent as possible, sorry for the weird crop job but he images are pretty good quality taken from an 8.1 megapixel digital camera (best I have)... Thats about it, good luck everyone.

After picture is on the left.

I do see improvement as well. Nice. Now to get all of that filled in completely....

KeepHoping
11-27-2013, 02:02 PM
Sadly, I don't think it's gonna fill in my temples... I want to get my frontal third densely packed with Rahal or something but I just don't have the money to do so, if I did though I'd probably opt to do that and just stick to treatments for a while, I think that would work fine for me. Sucks that it's so expensive.

I'll do another comparison pic in a while, maybe late december or sometime in january after I get a haircut just to see if there is further improvement.

hellouser
11-27-2013, 02:10 PM
Sadly, I don't think it's gonna fill in my temples... I want to get my frontal third densely packed with Rahal or something but I just don't have the money to do so, if I did though I'd probably opt to do that and just stick to treatments for a while, I think that would work fine for me. Sucks that it's so expensive.

I'll do another comparison pic in a while, maybe late december or sometime in january after I get a haircut just to see if there is further improvement.

I'm in the same shitty spot as you. My temples and hairline has been decimated and the hairs at the very edge of my hairline are quite thin, not a lot of density either. My hairstylists did mention she saw a LOT of velus hairs in my temples but I doubt anything will happen to them. Density wise I seem to be 'OK' up top but if I could get about 1,600 - 1,800 grafts on my hairline and temples I'd be really happy.

I'm tempted to try out Finasteride and see what it can do to the temples... either that or Dutasteride but I know both are dangerous. I'm getting desperate.

Conpecia
11-27-2013, 03:38 PM
I'm tempted to try out Finasteride and see what it can do to the temples... either that or Dutasteride but I know both are dangerous. I'm getting desperate.

i was in the same boat and it dawned on me that the depression and anxiety i was feeling were, in my opinion, outweighing the risk of sides on AAs. i got on dutasteride in august at .5mg 3x a week and i think i'm starting to see some results. i've bumped the dutasteride up to eod the past couple weeks and have had ZERO side effects other than increased libido. strongly, strongly recommend that you give it a shot.

35YrsAfter
11-27-2013, 03:46 PM
I'm in the same shitty spot as you. My temples and hairline has been decimated and the hairs at the very edge of my hairline are quite thin, not a lot of density either. My hairstylists did mention she saw a LOT of velus hairs in my temples but I doubt anything will happen to them. Density wise I seem to be 'OK' up top but if I could get about 1,600 - 1,800 grafts on my hairline and temples I'd be really happy.

I'm tempted to try out Finasteride and see what it can do to the temples... either that or Dutasteride but I know both are dangerous. I'm getting desperate.

We had a patient in yesterday who has many high Norwoods on both his mother and father's side. He has great hair at 40. In fact it's pretty amazing. Most likely due to genetic good fortune. He did have 4,000 FUE grafts over the last ten years, but that would be like a few drops in the bucket if he were headed for a Norwood 6. It certainly doesn't hurt to try safe treatments. He told me, he alternates shampoos. He uses Hair Cycle shampoo for a week, switches to Nioxin for a week and uses Nizoral one morning, then repeats the cycle. He told me he mixes Minoxidil with Propecia and Avodart and applies it topically. I asked Dr. Cole about that and he thinks there may not be enough absorption through the skin for that to be effective. Just thought I would pass that along. Perhaps, he just lucked out and inherited the good hair of a distant relative.

35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office
forhair.com
Cole Hair Transplant
1045 Powers Place
Alpharetta, Georgia 30009
Phone 678-566-1011
email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
I am not a doctor and the content of my posts are my opinions, not medical advice.
Please feel free to call or email me with any questions. Ask for Chuck

Pentarou
11-27-2013, 04:35 PM
I'm tempted to try out Finasteride and see what it can do to the temples... either that or Dutasteride but I know both are dangerous. I'm getting desperate.
I advise trying fin, seeing your circumstances. At worst you'd maintain as-is (see the 10 year finasteride study), at best it'd give a boost to the other treatments you're using, as there would be less follicle-wrecking DHT swimming through your system.

Don't think too much if at all about side effects or you'll never start the treatment, side effects are a possibility with anything, minoxidil certainly as well, it comes with the territory unfortunately: we're adults and know that everything has risks, even if statistically unlikely. And statistically speaking, side effects are the exception, not the norm, and certainly aren't inevitable.

Don't contemplate dutasteride now, certainly not as a first port of call. I'd wait and see if GSK get it through phase III for hair loss.

FearTheLoss
11-27-2013, 05:12 PM
it's funny how a bunch of forum members are finding better treatments and providing better pictures than ACTUAL PAID SCIENTISTS...unreal


but this dermarolling is huge

StayThick
11-27-2013, 08:51 PM
I'm in the same shitty spot as you. My temples and hairline has been decimated and the hairs at the very edge of my hairline are quite thin, not a lot of density either. My hairstylists did mention she saw a LOT of velus hairs in my temples but I doubt anything will happen to them. Density wise I seem to be 'OK' up top but if I could get about 1,600 - 1,800 grafts on my hairline and temples I'd be really happy.

I'm tempted to try out Finasteride and see what it can do to the temples... either that or Dutasteride but I know both are dangerous. I'm getting desperate.

I'm getting desperate myself, but I just can't come to terms with taking FIN. It was so damaging to my body and mind when I was on it. That being said I still sometimes say why not start at a very lose and go from there...but I just recall the sides back when I was on it and I just can't do it.

It's sad. I'll go bald before reliving what Propecia did to me. Hate this curse. I'll be looking to book with Rahal in the next 6 months.

saintsfan92344
12-01-2013, 06:29 PM
5th roll with pics, no numbing cream B#tches lol, applied more pressure this time, not as much blood as I thought with that much more pressure, felt it deeper in my scalp though after looking at the pics I definitely bled more this week, 1st pic was last week 2nd a few minutes ago, definitely pulled a lot of hair out though, dammit

mmmcoffee
12-01-2013, 09:30 PM
I advise trying fin, seeing your circumstances. At worst you'd maintain as-is (see the 10 year finasteride study), at best it'd give a boost to the other treatments you're using, as there would be less follicle-wrecking DHT swimming through your system.

No, worst case, continue to lose hair...

StayThick
12-01-2013, 09:31 PM
5th roll with pics, no numbing cream B#tches lol, applied more pressure this time, not as much blood as I thought with that much more pressure, felt it deeper in my scalp though after looking at the pics I definitely bled more this week, 1st pic was last week 2nd a few minutes ago, definitely pulled a lot of hair out though, dammit

Now that's a rolling session if I could say so myself. Wow.

Almost looks like a post-op mega FUE transplant. Well-Done man. Hope you see some regrowth from these great dermarolling sessions. Keep us posted.

FearTheLoss
12-01-2013, 10:56 PM
5th roll with pics, no numbing cream B#tches lol, applied more pressure this time, not as much blood as I thought with that much more pressure, felt it deeper in my scalp though after looking at the pics I definitely bled more this week, 1st pic was last week 2nd a few minutes ago, definitely pulled a lot of hair out though, dammit

This can't be good for the follicles..is everyone else getting this much blood?

saintsfan92344
12-02-2013, 03:25 AM
everytime I roll I get more blood, besides I am getting half as much as some guys at ***

JDW
12-02-2013, 03:27 AM
5th roll with pics, no numbing cream B#tches lol, applied more pressure this time, not as much blood as I thought with that much more pressure, felt it deeper in my scalp though after looking at the pics I definitely bled more this week, 1st pic was last week 2nd a few minutes ago, definitely pulled a lot of hair out though, dammit

wow fair play, I think I'll start going a bit harder. I noticed a few posters on *** properly going to town on their heads as well!

Pentarou
12-06-2013, 05:48 PM
Roll call of anyone still in the rolling game, please guys?

win200
12-06-2013, 05:49 PM
I'm still in the game. Only on my 4th session. Hard to tell if it's working; I'm also on fin and minoxidil, just started Avodart. Any regrowth would probably be nestled behind my transplanted hair.

Pentarou
12-06-2013, 06:13 PM
I didn't see anything until my 8th session at least, and only then vellus hair. This seems to be like using fin, Avodart, minox etc, as in it will take time to get any progress...

saintsfan92344
12-06-2013, 07:40 PM
I will be doing my 6th roll sunday, using minox, no results other than shedding but hopefully I will have a fro by summer

JDW
12-07-2013, 06:22 AM
Back in at week 6 after having to take a few weeks out.

TO YOUNG TO RETIRE
12-07-2013, 11:42 AM
i have been in 7th roll i have very good results

LevonHelms
12-07-2013, 01:18 PM
Still in, 18wks? I'm seeing continued results, but very slowly.

Pentarou
12-07-2013, 04:18 PM
I'm going to push this out to the 6 months point, so approx. double the 12 weeks described in the trials. Possibly even further. It's very slow going, this game. I can fully believe the regrowth in the photos in the original journal article, just not in the timeframe described.

saintsfan92344
12-07-2013, 06:59 PM
how about pics guys, I am on my 6th roll, nothing but shedding so far, which may be good ? who knows

inbrugge
12-08-2013, 08:03 PM
Just dropping in. I was going through the earlier discussions here.

Around page 60, there were some quotes of wounding leading to hair growth.

I can surely confirm this. I had very severe sunburn on my shoulders when I was 15. Afterwards, I begun to grow strands of very dark hairs on there (different than other body hairs. very dark and prominent).

Also, I've purchased a roller as well. I will begin dermarolling as soon as I start a Minox treatment. Still trying to find an ethanol-free one 2 months down the road :D

Pate
12-09-2013, 03:17 AM
I'm 7 weeks in now and definitely seeing some results.

I've got fine but pigmented hairs growing in around my hairline, up to about 10mm out. I can count them so far - there are about six on my left temple and two on my right. But they definitely were not there before.

But this is more growth on the hairline than I've ever had before, so I'm convinced there is something to this. The most I ever got from minox alone before was slightly longer vellus. These are pigmented.

In addition, shedding is way, way down. About 80% down by my estimate from counting shed hairs.

All in all, guys, I think this is by far the best results we've had in any community trial on this site. In fact it's pretty much the ONLY trial we've had where anyone's got real results, even if they do currently lag behind those reported in the trial.

I am going to continue this for at least six months, to give the hairs that are developing now the chance to go through another full cycle. That should tell me whether they're getting thicker or whether this is as far as they're going to go.

I had absolutely no expectations going into this, but I'm happy to say I'm a convert.

PrettyFly83
12-09-2013, 04:05 AM
Haven't posted here in a while.

Left Temple 6 month update

6 Month update:
Age: 30
Type of hair loss: Before dermarolling NW6,
Complete hair loss regimen:
Minoxidil Kirkland 2x/day 7 months
Niz shampoo 2x/week
Dermarolling 1x/week (4 months 0.5mm, now 2 months 1.5mm)
1gram Vita C and 1gram MSN daily

Brand of dermaroller: Generic 192 needle, 1.5 mm
Rolling frequency: Once a week (Friday evening) for about 8-10 minutes. Some blood spots but not a huge amount.
Weeks into treatment: 6 months total. 4 months 0.5mm and 2 month 1.5mm

Picture is 6month on left temple

Results: SLOWLY filling in bald areas, thickening of vellus, hairline still battling

SolarPowered Man
12-09-2013, 05:16 AM
Haven't posted here in a while.

Left Temple 6 month update

6 Month update:
Age: 30
Type of hair loss: Before dermarolling NW6,
Complete hair loss regimen:
Minoxidil Kirkland 2x/day 7 months
Niz shampoo 2x/week
Dermarolling 1x/week (4 months 0.5mm, now 2 months 1.5mm)
1gram Vita C and 1gram MSN daily

Brand of dermaroller: Generic 192 needle, 1.5 mm
Rolling frequency: Once a week (Friday evening) for about 8-10 minutes. Some blood spots but not a huge amount.
Weeks into treatment: 6 months total. 4 months 0.5mm and 2 month 1.5mm

Picture is 6month on left temple

Results: SLOWLY filling in bald areas, thickening of vellus, hairline still battling

Amazing results! Keep up the good work :)

saintsfan92344
12-09-2013, 07:41 AM
The study was 12 weeks, the pics of the shaved heads showing growth were at 12 weeks, the hair grown out was I think 8 months, I think at the 12 week point the most hope we can have is like prettyfly, hair just starting to grow and if you have hair maybe a little thicker healthier hair.
in my case I have less than when I started but I do think what I have is healthy, I am sure shock loss like with a hair transplant is going to happen to some hair. I don't expect to see any results till 12-16 weeks if I see them at all

saintsfan92344
12-09-2013, 07:44 AM
prettyfly to have hair being regown is incredible, and they look dark, are you getting any velous or all terminal

fred970
12-09-2013, 08:39 AM
OK I'm hopping back, I rolled during one month before but stopped because I was waiting for results.

I will follow the study to the letter.

Pentarou
12-09-2013, 10:30 AM
OK I'm hopping back, I rolled during one month before but stopped because I was waiting for results.

I will follow the study to the letter.
Do it bro! It's not a cure or anything, but you'd be surprised what you can see slowly happening. You will get used to the pain, take it from a very pain-averse guy. Good luck.

Pentarou
12-09-2013, 01:01 PM
OK I'm hopping back, I rolled during one month before but stopped because I was waiting for results.

I will follow the study to the letter.
Good on you bro! It's worth the pain, believe me. Just remember that you will need consistentcy and patience. Just as with the other existing treatments, really.

awesome1
12-12-2013, 05:41 PM
Got my roller almost 2 months ago, have been decreasing frequency to once a month of treatments based on the healing process timeline and recommendations from forums where people have been using it for skin care. The only other major thing in my regiment is 1% keto (and daily vitamins and ginko biloba), I'm not sure if I've seen regrowth yet or if they're broken hairs, I'm also noticing many vellus hairs where the hair is thin enough to spot em, but I'm not sure if that's a new development. I've been on keto shampoo 3 months now.

I'm cautiously optimistic, whats frustrating is my thinning crown is far back enough I have difficulties gauging how bad it really looks most the time.

ryan555
12-12-2013, 06:29 PM
With all this talk about pain and photos of bloody scalps, I wonder if you guys are doing this incorrectly. I've had two very well-known doctors dermaroll me and it was neither painful (mild discomfort, I'd say) and definitely no blood.

Tanner84
12-12-2013, 06:42 PM
Haven't posted here in a while.

Left Temple 6 month update

6 Month update:
Age: 30
Type of hair loss: Before dermarolling NW6,
Complete hair loss regimen:
Minoxidil Kirkland 2x/day 7 months
Niz shampoo 2x/week
Dermarolling 1x/week (4 months 0.5mm, now 2 months 1.5mm)
1gram Vita C and 1gram MSN daily

Brand of dermaroller: Generic 192 needle, 1.5 mm
Rolling frequency: Once a week (Friday evening) for about 8-10 minutes. Some blood spots but not a huge amount.
Weeks into treatment: 6 months total. 4 months 0.5mm and 2 month 1.5mm

Picture is 6month on left temple

Results: SLOWLY filling in bald areas, thickening of vellus, hairline still battling

Great to see your results! I'm almost 30, and I am going to do a series of scalp peels first, then start the derma-rolling plus minoxidil regimen - I'll get some before and after pictures as well. Your pics are extremely encouraging. Thanks!

Chromeo
12-13-2013, 09:04 AM
With all this talk about pain and photos of bloody scalps, I wonder if you guys are doing this incorrectly. I've had two very well-known doctors dermaroll me and it was neither painful (mild discomfort, I'd say) and definitely no blood.

Your doctors are doing this incorrectly for this purpose.

ryan555
12-13-2013, 09:48 AM
Your doctors are doing this incorrectly for this purpose.

One of them (Dr Greco in Florida) actually showed me the study and it didn't appear they were rolling their scalps into a bloody mess. Where are you information that says you need to bleed for this to be effective?

Knockin on NW4
12-13-2013, 10:09 AM
With all this talk about pain and photos of bloody scalps, I wonder if you guys are doing this incorrectly. I've had two very well-known doctors dermaroll me and it was neither painful (mild discomfort, I'd say) and definitely no blood.

Its all about needle lengths. 0.5mm will not draw blood. 1.5mm will. End of story.

Chromeo
12-13-2013, 12:05 PM
One of them (Dr Greco in Florida) actually showed me the study and it didn't appear they were rolling their scalps into a bloody mess. Where are you information that says you need to bleed for this to be effective?

Those who produced the study were contacted and admitted that "mild erythema" was a misleading term and that subjects regularly bled.

You need to actually wound the skin sufficiently for the process to begin. Why do you think people didn't see this kind of regrowth when rolling with 0.5 mm needles? It's because those needles are not really long enough to achieve the required amount of wounding.

I'm not saying you need to absolutely massacre your head like some people are doing, that seems like overkill to me. But you certainly should be rolling hard enough with needles of a sufficient length to at least draw some blood. Otherwise I would suggest you're half-assing it and the results won't be all that impressive, if noticeable at all.

awesome1
12-13-2013, 12:31 PM
I have medium length hair (for a guy anyway) and it's difficult getting the top of my scalp done with a 540 roller, dunno if it'd be any easier with a 192 roller, I get some bleeding, but most of it is on the temples, where it's easier to get the roller. Kinda tough if I'm getting it on the crown, but I'm definitely super sensitive across the scalp the next few days so I imagine I'm doing fine. I definitely break a lot of hairs with it every roll, another reason I've reduced frequency of rolls. (It's also made me confused whether I see real regrowth or just broken hairs now)

I hope I'm still getting my scalp sufficiently, my crown is what worries me most. I'm tempted to spend a little more on a 192 but am not sure if it will be a dramatic enough difference. Anyone used both kinds and have noticed much difference? People say the 540 causes the "bed of needles" effect but I haven't heard that from anyone who's actually reported to try both.

I can feel it sink into the flesh on my temples (god it's weird), but don't get the same sensation at the crown, where there's more hair in the way.