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pat
09-20-2013, 09:48 AM
About to get my first dermaroller. But, if I'm going to be rolling needles on my head I don't really want a cheaply made one from China. I'm positive that nearly all the ones on Amazon and eBay were just bought in wholesale from Chinese websites for no more than like 60 cents each.

I'm thinking about getting something like this: http://www.fabove.ca/p/hair_loss_treatments/Nanogen-Scalproller-Titanium-Microneedle-Roller.html

Has anyone tried a more expensive one in comparison to a cheap one, and noticed a difference?

Also, just got a haircut and it's still just long enough to spike up. At that length, can I dermaroll over my scalp without damaging the hairs?

TO YOUNG TO RETIRE
09-20-2013, 03:56 PM
squeegee on hair loss talk reports -getting hair thick as fak


:O

bigentries
09-20-2013, 04:15 PM
Did you guys see the Super dude posted pics? Not great quality, but they improve his credibility somewhat. He does have more hair.

His comparison pics aren't even close enough to show the improvement he is reporting, it's not like he is claiming his hairline moved considerably

walrus
09-20-2013, 04:39 PM
Plus any improvement he does have could be from finasteride.

KeepHoping
09-20-2013, 05:34 PM
My 5th session will be this upcoming sunday, just started to see a bunch of vellus hairs forming, not sure if this is due to dermarolling or minoxidil but I took baseline pictures and will take more pictures to report anything if there is visible improvement.

KeepHoping
09-20-2013, 05:34 PM
Also one more thing to note, I have started to see increased shedding between the 3-4 week mark of starting minoxidil and dermarolling. Just maybe something to mention.

whatsgoingon
09-20-2013, 07:26 PM
I read a study, and it basically outlined that it improved absorption from the resulted wound. Which allowed the minoxidil go deeper then it would without the assistance of the 1.5mm indents.

So I guess its how you view it, you view it as wounding and I view it as increased absorption.


Unless there is another study you are referring to? I recently read the one posted on baldingblog by I think dr. Rossman.

chimera
09-20-2013, 09:20 PM
I read a study, and it basically outlined that it improved absorption from the resulted wound. Which allowed the minoxidil go deeper then it would without the assistance of the 1.5mm indents.

So I guess its how you view it, you view it as wounding and I view it as increased absorption.


Unless there is another study you are referring to? I recently read the one posted on baldingblog by I think dr. Rossman.

Not at all. The study we're following is not about absorption, but about the realease of growth factors during the healing window.

Dan26
09-20-2013, 10:02 PM
I have velus hairs on temple, and having major shed lately. Done 4 sessions, 5th coming soon...I beleive most of us will have a very clear idea by the 7-10th rolling sessions ~~~

TO YOUNG TO RETIRE
09-21-2013, 01:42 AM
why all keep comming back for aprove of results?

i know why

beacause mpd made us desperate.

guys it works

we have a study to back it up

period

the_dude78
09-21-2013, 08:13 AM
I read a study, and it basically outlined that it improved absorption from the resulted wound. Which allowed the minoxidil go deeper then it would without the assistance of the 1.5mm indents.

So I guess its how you view it, you view it as wounding and I view it as increased absorption.


Unless there is another study you are referring to? I recently read the one posted on baldingblog by I think dr. Rossman.

Are we still going on about absorption? People, read the study! Hellouser linked to it in the very first post of this thread. :)

Update from me: Tuesday will be my 7th week of rolling, and I think I see some improvements along the hairline. I had vellus hair there to begin with, but they look a little thicker and there seem to be new very, very, tiny, little new ones coming too. It doesn't show on the pictures I take, they are still too tiny. I'm a NW2 hairline wise with diffuse thinning in the front and crown and i've been on fin for about 4 or 5 years. If I see a dramatic improvement I will post pictures.

I also tried capillogain, and I really thought it did something for me, but when I looked at old pictures it turned out it was just wishful thinking and I stopped using it 3 months ago. This time,though, it really looks like something is happening. I have this little red spot in my left temple that used to be covered by hair, but for the past 8 years only vellus hair has been growing there, making the spot very easy to see - but now it is slowly becoming less visible as the hair thickens. So I'm cautiously optimistic :)

EDIT: Maybe it's week 8...I'm not sure

Conpecia
09-21-2013, 08:25 AM
why all keep comming back for aprove of results?

i know why

beacause mpd made us desperate.

guys it works

we have a study to back it up

period

yikes

hellouser
09-21-2013, 01:04 PM
I took a different approach today to my dermarolling. I've noticed *some* vellus hair in the temples, but I'm not sure if those are miniaturized hairs from progressive balding or hairs that have grown thicker during my regimen. Therefor, what I did today was:

Dermarolled harshly around the entire scalp but MOSTLY on the hairline drawing enough blood to sort of coat the skin with it. Shortly after this, I showered, getting rid of the blood and shampooing my hair/scalp, this basically exfoliates the skin. After showering I dried my hair (blow dryer) and dermarolled AGAIN. I can say this time though, a lot more blood was coming out. It only took a few short strokes to draw a lot of blood so I didn't dermaroll too much. After this I rinsed my hair with warm water and noticed some blood was dripping mixed with water. I dried my hair AGAIN with a blow dryer (couldnt use towels as there was still some blood left over)... and once dry, I applied Minoxidil around the hairline/temples/corners where most of the blood was apparent. So far? No side effects, no sign of increased heart rate, nothing. I did STING a little applying the minoxidil in the wounded areas, but thats due to the alcohol.

Let's hope this creates some TERMINAL hairs! :)

TO YOUNG TO RETIRE
09-21-2013, 01:54 PM
hellouser hairs will pop out .there is noway of not happening from the way you explain..sounds like you butcher your head....

do you think maybe minox get caught on the hair? i see you didnt buzz the hair...

sides will come ... wait

PatientlyWaiting
09-21-2013, 04:30 PM
I've used the dermaroller every day since I got it 4 days ago, I don't use it like in the study. I do not use it to draw blood, just enough to redden the skin. So far I see new hairs in the right side of my hairline, similar quick results to what starting dut+rogaine gave me. I will not show pics anymore because i'm really bummed out from what happened last time, when dut/rogaine gave me good results then alopecia areata kicked in and ruined my progress. I just don't care anymore, and don't really care if any one believes me, sorry for the attitude but it's just how I feel about my hair loss at this point. If it works, fine, but I expect AA to ruin everything like it always has.

But yeah, micro needling your head and using minoxidil definitely does bring new hair. I'm sold on this after seeing it with my own eyes on my own hair line.

hiilikeyourbeard
09-21-2013, 04:36 PM
wish this worked in conjunction with something besides minox

Dan26
09-21-2013, 04:40 PM
PatientlyWaiting, how long did it take you to see new hairs on your hairline from minox?

And bro, stay strong. You have your whole life a head of you, do whatever you can to fight this monster for now, but realize there is a very good chance, as long as you have the money, that one day you will be able to get your hair back, and still have a large chunk of life ahead of you to enjoy it :)

Axel
09-21-2013, 04:48 PM
I've used the dermaroller every day since I got it 4 days ago, I don't use it like in the study. I do not use it to draw blood, just enough to redden the skin. So far I see new hairs in the right side of my hairline, similar quick results to what starting dut+rogaine gave me. I will not show pics anymore because i'm really bummed out from what happened last time, when dut/rogaine gave me good results then alopecia areata kicked in and ruined my progress. I just don't care anymore, and don't really care if any one believes me, sorry for the attitude but it's just how I feel about my hair loss at this point. If it works, fine, but I expect AA to ruin everything like it always has.

But yeah, micro needling your head and using minoxidil definitely does bring new hair. I'm sold on this after seeing it with my own eyes on my own hair line.

C'mon guys read the science behind the procedure... There's no point in rolling everyday since fgf9 is overexpressed 5 days after the skin disruption. With a peak in between day 5 and day 11 or so (there's a nice graph showing this somewhere in one of these dermarrolling threads)..

This means ideally you should stop rolling and let the skin recover. I'd say rolling sessions spaced with 10 to 14 days are much better... Is an interesting variation of the study that should be tested.

DesperateOne
09-21-2013, 05:54 PM
C'mon guys read the science behind the procedure... There's no point in rolling everyday since fgf9 is overexpressed 5 days after the skin disruption. With a peak in between day 5 and day 11 or so (there's a nice graph showing this somewhere in one of these dermarrolling threads)..

This means ideally you should stop rolling and let the skin recover. I'd say rolling sessions spaced with 10 to 14 days are much better... Is an interesting variation of the study that should be tested.

Thanks for the info, I needed to know the ideal time to add the minox. I have read more of the science and it does make sense to wait longer than a week since there's more to healing than just inflammation.

PatientlyWaiting
09-21-2013, 07:03 PM
I bought the dermaroller to see if it helps minoxidil absorb better, not for the skin wounding science behind it.

Dan, minoxidil+dut I started those two at the same time in March 13th of this year, I saw results in about 3 weeks, but it halted/lost ground 4 months in due to alopecia areata coming back in about 8 different spots all over the top of my head. I have yet to recover the hair I regrew from dut+rogaine but now in the 4th day I am seeing a little bit of recovery on my hairline, but I am not excited at all because I have seen this before.

Back to Axel, I am just posting in this thread because I am using microneedling for MBP. I am not following the instructions in the opening post/study. I want to purposely do it like this, I read the study already.

MackJames
09-21-2013, 07:14 PM
I bought the dermaroller to see if it helps minoxidil absorb better, not for the skin wounding science behind it.

Dan, minoxidil+dut I started those two at the same time in March 13th of this year, I saw results in about 3 weeks, but it halted/lost ground 4 months in due to alopecia areata coming back in about 8 different spots all over the top of my head. I have yet to recover the hair I regrew from dut+rogaine but now in the 4th day I am seeing a little bit of recovery on my hairline, but I am not excited at all because I have seen this before.

Back to Axel, I am just posting in this thread because I am using microneedling for MBP. I am not following the instructions in the opening post/study. I want to purposely do it like this, I read the study already.

I've been using my clobetasol prop foam

StayThick
09-21-2013, 08:10 PM
Just finished my derma-rolling session for this week and man was the pain more excruciating today than in prior past weeks. Had to take multiple breaks and bite on a towel as I rolled. Man, the stuff I do in an attempt to save my hair. I'm actually embarrassed with myself that I'm spending a Saturday night applying topicals and cutting my scalp.

I changed it up and applied Lipogaine right after. As expected, the liquid stung the moment it touched my skin. So far, no Minox sides to report with this method.

RisingFist
09-21-2013, 08:43 PM
wish this worked in conjunction with something besides minox

Who says it doesn't. There are some people not using topicals or trying castor oil, sulfur I think, etc. It's hard to decide what alternative is best but there certainly are alternatives.

hellouser
09-21-2013, 08:54 PM
Who says it doesn't. There are some people not using topicals or trying castor oil, sulfur I think, etc. It's hard to decide what alternative is best but there certainly are alternatives.

There's some evidence that DHT inhibits release of WNT proteins. Taking finasteride may actually promote WNT, a la Histogen and give increased growth factors to help regrow hairs.

I've been tempted to take Finasteride once a week just to see how it effects the wounding theory.

MackJames
09-22-2013, 04:55 AM
There's some evidence that DHT inhibits release of WNT proteins. Taking finasteride may actually promote WNT, a la Histogen and give increased growth factors to help regrow hairs.

I've been tempted to take Finasteride once a week just to see how it effects the wounding theory.

Topical fin and rolling? I understand their would be side effects.

TO YOUNG TO RETIRE
09-22-2013, 05:15 AM
squeegee the french canuck guy on hair loss talk sees major improvements...

maybe someone registered there asks him for pics?

MackJames
09-22-2013, 06:24 AM
I've been using my clobetasol prop foam

Clobetasol may also be a pdg2 antagonist. I have AA like patiently. I was prescribed clobetasol for psoriasis of the scalp. I've been applying it to my scalp for about a week.

RisingFist
09-22-2013, 07:43 AM
There's some evidence that DHT inhibits release of WNT proteins. Taking finasteride may actually promote WNT, a la Histogen and give increased growth factors to help regrow hairs.

I've been tempted to take Finasteride once a week just to see how it effects the wounding theory.

I wouldn't recommend it but if you wanna gamble...Why not valerian root extract in liquid form. I think I posted a study early in this thread. It increases wnt signaling (even taking the oral supplement for deep sleep helps). There are a few supplements that help with wnt signaling. I don't know them from the top of my head but should be easy to find. What we should also see is FGF supplements since it seems to be the new player in the puzzle. I know some are going hardcore and getting growth factors from kane but I would like to try a more natural approach if possible.

Also, where are Canadians ordering their rollers from? I want to buy 2. One 0.5mm for once a week rolling and one 1.5mm for once a month. If anyone has recommendations since it's expensive here. Don't want it too cheap where some needles might be stuck in your head, that would be a nightmare.

RisingFist
09-22-2013, 08:00 AM
I should post this study in here as well http://www.omicsonline.org/2155-9554/2155-9554-3-138.php

It is very interesting. The author has gmail so you can ask for details if you want. Please read and discuss. It's quite fascinating and completely free to incorporate.

walrus
09-22-2013, 09:06 AM
I should post this study in here as well http://www.omicsonline.org/2155-9554/2155-9554-3-138.php

It is very interesting. The author has gmail so you can ask for details if you want. Please read and discuss. It's quite fascinating and completely free to incorporate.

Not very impressed by this study. No real stats, and language such as: "The rubbing motion promotes relaxation and feels good, thus increasing the production of good chemicals." is very unscientific and unfounded.

RisingFist
09-22-2013, 10:36 AM
Not very impressed by this study. No real stats, and language such as: "The rubbing motion promotes relaxation and feels good, thus increasing the production of good chemicals." is very unscientific and unfounded.

I think it was translated from korean. I understand it is not very formal but it's worth looking at.

LevonHelms
09-22-2013, 01:08 PM
I should post this study in here as well http://www.omicsonline.org/2155-9554/2155-9554-3-138.php

It is very interesting. The author has gmail so you can ask for details if you want. Please read and discuss. It's quite fascinating and completely free to incorporate.

Utter nonsense dude. I like how he put tissue paper over the mouse next to his keyboard to illustrate a "domed head" lol. And the only before and after pic was of a guy that started with a norwood 0.

Massaging your head may help with circulation, but I doubt trying to flatten your head to relieve the scalp of grease would be very successful.

DesperateOne
09-22-2013, 03:10 PM
Here is my second month update, I know the pics are very shitty but still. I don't know why the light is so bad. Also, note that my hair has obviously grown since then, so now it should be around 5mm-6mm. I might have to get a haircut soon and will take more relevant pictures. I also want to point out that in the last two weeks I have noticed some shedding, I don't know what it means because I had it pretty much under control with fin and minox. Hopefully it's a good sign.

Here is the old ones, the ones with hair really short are the initial ones, the rest are a month in.
http://s910.photobucket.com/user/BTTDesperateone/slideshow/

Here are the new ones, it may be wishful thinking but I think I gained some hair on the crown, again hard to tell.

Crown 8 weeks:
http://imgur.com/a/CxPCH

Top 8 weeks:
http://imgur.com/a/rBro8

On a side note, I am have also been adding semen for the last week, yes I know, don't judge yet. Anyways, I was using it completely wrong, it wasn't absorbing, only until recently I have found how to apply it, you have to let it sit for about 20 mins until it becomes liquid form and then I just derma roll a bit with the .5mm and it absorbs much better. You obviously don't have to do this nor I am saying you should try it, so don't talk shit about it.

NeedHairASAP
09-22-2013, 06:49 PM
@desperate

Im all for the semen theory, but isn't it counter intuitive?

First you, well, you know, lose the essential stuff in it, just to try and put it back? Shouldn't you just NoFap?

Knockin on NW4
09-22-2013, 07:38 PM
wish this worked in conjunction with something besides minox

you could try dinoprostone gel. PGE2 used to induce labour. it may seem weird, but it is probably more effective than semen lmao. you may be able to source some from an extremely forward thinking dermatologist or online somewhere.

DesperateOne
09-22-2013, 07:55 PM
@desperate

Im all for the semen theory, but isn't it counter intuitive?

First you, well, you know, lose the essential stuff in it, just to try and put it back? Shouldn't you just NoFap?

I don't see how you would think its counter intuitive. Semen has better growth factors than Kane's, and many more properties. Just to set the record straight, I take no pleasure in putting it on my scalp. I jus think that growth factors are key to growing hair during wounding, but one, I don't have the money for growth factors and two, I have natural ones that are way more potent.
Anyways, I do hope it works and I can assure you that if I see great results wih it then everyone is going to jump in. So I am doing people a favor by trug hhis out myself and if it works great, if it doesn't well, another one we can check off the list. Of course I will have to do it for at least six months.

Conpecia
09-22-2013, 08:24 PM
just finished session number 6. nothing happening yet. still early.

greatjob!
09-22-2013, 11:58 PM
On a side note, I am have also been adding semen for the last week


yes I know, don't judge yet.



don't talk shit about it.

I'm sorry I am judging you and I will talk shit, because you're rubbing jizz on your head...

NeedHairASAP
09-23-2013, 02:41 AM
I don't see how you would think its counter intuitive. Semen has better growth factors than Kane's, and many more properties. Just to set the record straight, I take no pleasure in putting it on my scalp. I jus think that growth factors are key to growing hair during wounding, but one, I don't have the money for growth factors and two, I have natural ones that are way more potent.
Anyways, I do hope it works and I can assure you that if I see great results wih it then everyone is going to jump in. So I am doing people a favor by trug hhis out myself and if it works great, if it doesn't well, another one we can check off the list. Of course I will have to do it for at least six months.


what I'm saying is, assuming it's your own jizz that you're using, you have these nutrients and growth factors etc INSIDE you to start with... you then extract them (for lack of a better term)... only to put it on your head and probably receive less growth factors and nutrients than you had before you fapped.


I'm a firm believer of the fapping-baldness connection. It's def hormonal in general, but fap affects it too.

Hicks
09-23-2013, 04:12 AM
I'm sorry I am judging you and I will talk shit, because you're rubbing jizz on your head...

+1 and DesperateOne..... Please NO pictures!

NeedHairASAP
09-23-2013, 05:25 AM
why is nobody using lithium gel? like in the follica patent?

Also, some dude on another forum posted that he used lithium gel and sandpaper and was getting cosmetic results.... I think it was posted here.

DesperateOne
09-23-2013, 06:27 AM
what I'm saying is, assuming it's your own jizz that you're using, you have these nutrients and growth factors etc INSIDE you to start with... you then extract them (for lack of a better term)... only to put it on your head and probably receive less growth factors and nutrients than you had before you fapped.


I'm a firm believer of the fapping-baldness connection. It's def hormonal in general, but fap affects it too.

Have you gone mad? How in the world do you think the body is going to use semen's growth factors in my head, when they're located somewhere else. Not to mention that semen is not intended to be used like that, so there is no way your own body will use it. I guess it was a mistake saying anything about semen. You guys come here every single day and now you feel you have dignity? That this is where you draw the line, and even worse you don't know the science behind it.

Your assumption about fapping and hairloss is just that, an assumption. Then there Is real science behind semen and you dismiss it because just the thought makes you sick. And yes, I am using my own.

TO YOUNG TO RETIRE
09-23-2013, 06:41 AM
hi friends
. i will have my dermarollers in a week, i ordered two just in case...

192 needles and 1.5 mm.

i will buzz hair and take pics. i will use minox foam...i have bedantine already//

cant wait...

hellouser
09-23-2013, 07:44 AM
what I'm saying is, assuming it's your own jizz that you're using, you have these nutrients and growth factors etc INSIDE you to start with... you then extract them (for lack of a better term)... only to put it on your head and probably receive less growth factors and nutrients than you had before you fapped.


I'm a firm believer of the fapping-baldness connection. It's def hormonal in general, but fap affects it too.

Without looking at the properties of semen, its very VERY disingenuous to write off its potential benefits. From what I understand, Semen contains a very high concentration of PGE2, which is one of the key prostaglandins for hair growth and, as we know that Minox -> PGE2 -> FGF-9. Therefor, you're taking a shortcut by cutting out Minoxidil. Whether it absorbs/penetrates and works is another issue.

Koga
09-23-2013, 07:47 AM
Hey desperateone, don't worry about the other people. Do your thing. Like they think if semen really turns out to work they wouldn't all be rubbing it on their heads in a second.

I personally wouldn't rub it on my head without knowing if it works. But if it works then what could be better then something that is made by your own body and is.. free?

Anyways, I for one appreciate you testing it out for us.

NeedHairASAP
09-23-2013, 08:15 AM
Im not saying don't do it. I'm just bringing up some potential issues in the logic. U don't know if it does get to your hair without spreading it yourself.... we don't know either way. I can admit that. Its worth I try. I was just throwing out some analysis.

Plus there is some science behind nofap.....just nobody has studied the relationship enough for their to be citable literature.

greatjob!
09-23-2013, 11:29 AM
Plus there is some science behind nofap

There is no science behind it, only bro-science. Jerking off doesn't cause hairloss, go find that troll ResearchNeverFails and you guys can have a nofap party while you continue to watch your hair fall out.

hellouser
09-23-2013, 11:44 AM
Im not saying don't do it. I'm just bringing up some potential issues in the logic. U don't know if it does get to your hair without spreading it yourself.... we don't know either way. I can admit that. Its worth I try. I was just throwing out some analysis.

Plus there is some science behind nofap.....just nobody has studied the relationship enough for their to be citable literature.

If thats the case, then howcome many male pornstars have a full head of hair, even well past their prime like Ron Jeremy? Abstinence does NOT reverse or halt hair loss. I'd put the blame on that stupid myth squarely on psychotic christians with their stone age thinking in persuading people not to masturbate or have sex before marriage. Absolutely RIDICULOUS.

DesperateOne
09-23-2013, 12:05 PM
Im not saying don't do it. I'm just bringing up some potential issues in the logic. U don't know if it does get to your hair without spreading it yourself.... we don't know either way. I can admit that. Its worth I try. I was just throwing out some analysis.

Plus there is some science behind nofap.....just nobody has studied the relationship enough for their to be citable literature.

Really? you're one to talk about logic. First and foremost, I will admit that I have no way to be sure if it is absorbing the way it needs to. The thing is, that's why we're in this mess in the first place, I don't have a lab or a team of scientists with me, all we have in this community is our willingness to experiment, and that alone is sometimes more beneficial because we don't have to wait as long for approved treatments. I am trying to do my part here, but people(Specially old timers and religious nuts) can't seem to get out of the old ways of thinking. Some of you still think that you're the center of the universe and that everything revolves around you, and that your life is morphed by actions of your so called Deity. TROGLODYTES.

I am trying to do my best to try and make it absorb as much as I can. I already found that liquification and dermarolling with .5mm prior to application, does indeed "Feel and Look" like it's being fully absorbed.
I know I can add everclear and other stuff to try and make it absorb better but I will do that if it doesn't work, I don't if alcohol destroys sperms properties. Which I would assume since it's very strong stuff for organic materials, but if you can find that it doesn't, let me know.
Remember, this is MPB we're talking about here, it had no mercy on any of us and we should attack it like a pack of wild wolfs.

walrus
09-23-2013, 12:45 PM
Plus there is some science behind nofap.....just nobody has studied the relationship enough for their to be citable literature.

If there is no citable literature, then there is no science behind it.

NeedHairASAP
09-23-2013, 04:48 PM
If there is no citable literature, then there is no science behind it.

I didnt say fapping was the only cause.... I think over fapping speeds up or can hinder hairloss in a similar fashion to how the hormonal issues...which are the main cause

Listen to your logic walpus.... should we expect no future scientific discoveries because no research on it exists today?

Now listen to your other statements guys:

Semen has good stuff for hair in it

Fapping has no effect on hair loss


Basically u guys cite one paper that claims the dht that fapping creats only pasts ten minutes..... one study.... and u base ypur entite conclusion on it without asking if its true, if there are two exogenous variables.. nothing.

And yet u rub it on your head (which, again, I am down with)

I was just mentioning some possible issues w the theory....please continue and let us know how it goes

greatjob!
09-23-2013, 06:27 PM
I didnt say fapping was the only cause.... I think over fapping speeds up or can hinder hairloss in a similar fashion to how the hormonal issues...which are the main cause

Just because some guy on the internet wrote some bull about jerking it contributing to hairloss and you bought into it doesn't make it so.

Please show me one single credible source that suggest masturbation contributes to hairloss.

While you're at it show me that wearing a hat causes hairloss, working out causes hairloss, hairloss only comes from your mothers side, combing your hair causes hairloss ect. ect. It's all old wives tale pseudoscience.

walrus
09-23-2013, 06:27 PM
Listen to your logic walpus.... should we expect no future scientific discoveries because no research on it exists today?


No, but the fact remains you have an unsubstantiated theory.

mmmcoffee
09-23-2013, 06:33 PM
If I remember correctly, masturbating does affect your hormones but it raises Testosterone either slightly or for not long enough to have a detrimental effect on hair.

I think the same goes for lifting weights. My guess is the rumor of lifting weights speeding up balding came from anabolic steroid use, which DOES speed up balding, and scare mongers just assumed healthy exercise speeds up balding, when it doesn't

hellouser
09-23-2013, 06:44 PM
If I remember correctly, masturbating does affect your hormones but it raises Testosterone either slightly or for not long enough to have a detrimental effect on hair.

I think the same goes for lifting weights. My guess is the rumor of lifting weights speeding up balding came from anabolic steroid use, which DOES speed up balding, and scare mongers just assumed healthy exercise speeds up balding, when it doesn't

This.

End of discussion and wrong thread on top of that. Sigh.

Tracy C
09-23-2013, 07:44 PM
Did I mention this really hurts?




But if you are rolling with as much vigor as those reporting results...

Sorry, I am unable to take those who are reporting results so soon very seriously. I am duplicating the pilot study as much as I possibly can without altering my current regimen too much.




On a side note, I missed the explanation for why you are using plastic wrap.

I'm a girl. I have long hair that could easily get tangled up in the roller. The plastic wrap is food grade so there is not much to be concerned about - if anything at all. I do inspect the used wrap when I am done to make sure pieces have not been left behind on my scalp. The needles of the roller are very small and plenty sharp enough to poke through the plastic without tearing it up.

I prep the area I am going to roll over with betadine before I put the plastic wrap on. Then again after I have rolled and removed the plastic. Then I use the same cotton ball I used to apply the betadine to put a very thin film of Neosporin over the area. The first time I rolled I did not put Neosporin over the area afterwards and I was very uncomfortable the next two days.

PatientlyWaiting
09-23-2013, 07:46 PM
Tracy, aren't you a woman, not a girl?

I don't remember the last time I referred to myself as a boy and i'm 24.

hellouser
09-23-2013, 07:57 PM
Tracy, aren't you a woman, not a girl?

I don't remember the last time I referred to myself as a boy and i'm 24.

Women are allowed to fake it. Men are supposed to 'man up' and admit old age. Too bad men age gracefully like a fine wine.. women age like milk. Well, unless we're balding, the wine analogy doesn't really apply.

BBay
09-24-2013, 07:27 AM
Thanks for the info I was going to use 0.5mm till I read the paper and understood the 5 day wait between wounding


in that video, the guy doesnt understand how wounding works, positive results are not from increased absorption, but from the natural expression of growth factors post wounding. thats why u need to wait at least 5-7 days between wounding sessions.

Pge2 increases fgf9 expression wich allows for folicle neogenesis post wounding. without pge2 or minox, wich increases pge2 :) , folicle neogenesis cant occur, just scarring that can inhibit growth. This is essentially Follica's method.


yes rolling increases absorption, but that isnt the goal of this trial. thats why they did not apply minox 24hr after wounding in the study, to rule out increased absorption being the cause of regrowth. and u MUST wait at least five days bewteen roll sesions for the body to express these growth factors .


ps 1mm is too short , ive tried this, go with 1.5 or 2mm, no pain no gain. unless u incorporate topical lidocaine before wounding ;)

Tracy C
09-24-2013, 08:09 PM
Tracy, aren't you a woman, not a girl?

I don't remember the last time I referred to myself as a boy and i'm 24.

I have girlfriends who are a lot older than me who still refer to themselves as girls. I never give it any thought actually. I was just free writing and more concerned with the explanation than the fact that I am female.

NeedHairASAP
09-24-2013, 08:19 PM
I have girlfriends who are a lot older than me who still refer to themselves as girls. I never give it any thought actually. I was just free writing and more concerned with the explanation than the fact that I am female.

Thought I typically don't like you tracey, I don't read into you using the word girl that much. i think it's quite normal. I wouldn't give it any thought.

greatjob!
09-24-2013, 08:21 PM
Tracy, aren't you a woman, not a girl?

I don't remember the last time I referred to myself as a boy and i'm 24.

That is not an equal comparison.

In conversational English it's pretty common for women to refer to themselves as girls i.e. "girls night out". It's analogous to men using the the term guy not boy i.e. "guys night".

Also kind of a nit picky statement, who cares if she calls herself a girl.

PatientlyWaiting
09-24-2013, 08:31 PM
That is not an equal comparison.

In conversational English it's pretty common for women to refer to themselves as girls i.e. "girls night out". It's analogous to men using the the term guy not boy i.e. "guys night".

Also kind of a nit picky statement, who cares if she calls herself a girl.

Well, calm down. I wasn't asking to offend her, or any Women's Rights Activists on this forum. I was actually asking her to confirm her age, because I was planning on asking her out on a date, where we can just talk about our hair loss all day. You seem more offended than her.

Tracy C
09-24-2013, 08:34 PM
You seem more offended than her.

I wasn't offended. If anything I found it a little humorous. :)

greatjob!
09-24-2013, 08:38 PM
Well, calm down. I wasn't asking to offend her, or any Women's Rights Activists on this forum. I was actually asking her to confirm her age, because I was planning on asking her out on a date, where we can just talk about our hair loss all day. You seem more offended than her.

No need for me to calm down I wasn't upset. Just pointing out that guy and girl are synonyms and pretty interchangeable. Anyways proceed Casanova, lol.

PrettyFly83
09-25-2013, 12:57 AM
Hey All

here is a quick 4 month update shot:

Screen Grab Compare:

http://s1292.photobucket.com/user/PrettyFly83/media/4%20month/Top4MonthCompare_zpsff53dfcb.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0

Start: (Zoom twice for HD)
http://s1292.photobucket.com/user/PrettyFly83/media/4%20month/2013-06-12173820_zps78841007.jpg.html?sort=3&o=2

4 month: (Zoom twice for HD)
http://s1292.photobucket.com/user/PrettyFly83/media/4%20month/2013-09-25082801_zpsf1c67e3c.jpg.html?sort=3&o=1

Chromeo
09-25-2013, 01:39 AM
Clearly works. Awesome.

vanityhair
09-25-2013, 02:41 AM
Hey All

here is a quick 4 month update shot

Wow, really great PrettyFly. A testament to patience for Hair Loss treatments, something I unfortunately have little of. Are you still only on Minox/VitC/MSM/Dermarolling?

Can't wait to see the results in a few more months!

gainspotter
09-25-2013, 07:14 AM
Hmm, doesn't look too bad, still hard to tell whether they are existing hairs growing out though.
This gives me a bit more hope nonetheless.

brunobald
09-25-2013, 07:28 AM
Pasting in the below just so everyone knows what prettyFly is using


Correction, minox for 1 month then started rolling. Been rolling for 2.5months now and minox for 3.5. As much as ive researched, minox does not give you a result in 2-3months, takes at leasr 4 for results to start showing. Keep optimistic guys, no point in being negative as whats to loose? 15 bucks on a derma roller that you can use for other treatments? Im keeping this going till end november and only then will make the call!


Looks like a definite improvement, but hard to tell if minox alone would do this? Good results though.

goingquick
09-25-2013, 09:54 AM
Pasting in the below just so everyone knows what prettyFly is using




Looks like a definite improvement, but hard to tell if minox alone would do this? Good results though.

I had pretty quick minix results, so you can definitely see improvements earlier than 4 months.

gainspotter
09-25-2013, 11:37 AM
I had pretty quick minix results, so you can definitely see improvements earlier than 4 months.

Agreed.

DesperateOne
09-25-2013, 12:32 PM
Prettyflys's results are useless for derma rolling. Since he took it around the same time he start rolling, it can be most likely that his growth was from minox. Even if it was from rolling, the fact that he started a couple of months ago with minox, completely disqualifies him from any possible validity of derma rolling. Shame because I was looking forward to his results.

Sogeking
09-25-2013, 12:50 PM
How often did prettyFly apply minox? And how long were the needles on dermaroller?
Thank you.

the_dude78
09-25-2013, 01:32 PM
How often did prettyFly apply minox? And how long were the needles on dermaroller?
Thank you.

http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showpost.php?p=137637&postcount=55

bigentries
09-25-2013, 01:37 PM
Prettyflys's results are useless for derma rolling. Since he took it around the same time he start rolling, it can be most likely that his growth was from minox. Even if it was from rolling, the fact that he started a couple of months ago with minox, completely disqualifies him from any possible validity of derma rolling. Shame because I was looking forward to his results.

Well, many people (like myself) started minox with dermarolling.

I don't think any results we provide are "useless" but need to be taken into account that we started (or restarted) minox at the same time.

This was going to be a huge issue with the study, without a minox only group, you can't be sure if any results produced are better than using minox alone

I'm more worried about the lack of results, besides PrettyFly, there is no one else providing clear pictures of regrowth

Dan26
09-25-2013, 02:10 PM
im def getting temple action nice velus hairs soem dark, and shedding a lot....need more time tho

TO YOUNG TO RETIRE
09-25-2013, 02:38 PM
shedding is good i suppose?shedding=reset hair cycle.


im def getting temple action nice velus hairs soem dark, and shedding a lot....need more time tho

Conpecia
09-25-2013, 03:13 PM
we started in mid-july. it's late september. nowhere near long enough to evaluate. can we please just give this until 2014 before we write it off?

greatjob!
09-25-2013, 03:31 PM
we started in mid-july. it's late september. nowhere near long enough to evaluate. can we please just give this until 2014 before we write it off?

Patience and common sense? If I didn't know better I would think you were new to tbt, lol.



For me I could careless what others do or report. Even if everyone here decides it's useless I'm still rolling for a year unless some cure comes out of left field before then. Got to be sure something doesn't work before you throw it in the trash heap, or else whats the point of even trying in the first place.

bigentries
09-25-2013, 03:47 PM
we started in mid-july. it's late september. nowhere near long enough to evaluate. can we please just give this until 2014 before we write it off?
Until 2014?

The study was pretty clear, amazing results in 3 months with almost 100% success rate, pointing out that in 6 weeks the growth was noticeable.

If you don't get results in 3 months, we either messed up with the study or the study is not possible to reproduce

There comes a time when you need to stop clinging to hopes, see the guy that posted the incredible results with indomethacin in december, it's almost a year, people haven't seen any other results and are still using that stuff

chimera
09-25-2013, 03:55 PM
Prettyflys's results are useless for derma rolling. Since he took it around the same time he start rolling, it can be most likely that his growth was from minox. Even if it was from rolling, the fact that he started a couple of months ago with minox, completely disqualifies him from any possible validity of derma rolling. Shame because I was looking forward to his results.

Oh yeah?... didn't you told me to stop being so pessimist and to take my negativity out of here just for saying the same thing like one month and a half before...?

greatjob!
09-25-2013, 04:24 PM
Oh yeah?... didn't you told me to stop being so pessimist and to take my negativity out of here just for saying the same thing like one month and a half before...?


http://i1000.photobucket.com/albums/af128/greatjob_/tvwQC_zps9bc43295.gif

LongWayHome
09-26-2013, 12:25 PM
http://i1000.photobucket.com/albums/af128/greatjob_/tvwQC_zps9bc43295.gif

So...John Abruzzi is balding too.

Wait until Mahone finds out he's not dead...

Conpecia
09-26-2013, 01:46 PM
Until 2014?

The study was pretty clear, amazing results in 3 months with almost 100% success rate, pointing out that in 6 weeks the growth was noticeable.

If you don't get results in 3 months, we either messed up with the study or the study is not possible to reproduce

There comes a time when you need to stop clinging to hopes, see the guy that posted the incredible results with indomethacin in december, it's almost a year, people haven't seen any other results and are still using that stuff

Do what you want. I'm rolling until 2014. It's too easy a treatment to just stop after 6 weeks...

bigentries
09-26-2013, 02:21 PM
Do what you want. I'm rolling until 2014. It's too easy a treatment to just stop after 6 weeks...

I never said 6 weeks. The study was 12 weeks long and if someone already jumped into experimenting, they should do the whole 12 weeks

But the study also said that at 6 weeks the growth was noticeable, and I already crossed that milestone and my hair remains unchanged, so something is wrong, either me (not a responder, bad methodology) or the study

People get emotional with treatments and refuse to admit they tried something that it's simply not going to work, you see it all the time in hair loss forums

TO YOUNG TO RETIRE
09-26-2013, 02:27 PM
growth was noticable from the best responders at the study at 6th week...

bigentries
09-26-2013, 02:37 PM
growth was noticable from the best responders at the study at 6th week...

It never talks about best responders



Initiation of new hair growth was noticeable by around 6 weeks in Microneedling group and by 10 weeks in Minoxidil group.
Rapid growth in the existing hair was seen at week 1 in the Microneedling group than Minoxidil group


Even the minoxidil group shows suspiciously fast growth

And only 20% on the people in the dermaroller group could not be considered "good responders"

This study is too good to be true, specially with the results reported so far

TO YOUNG TO RETIRE
09-26-2013, 02:51 PM
guys look

http://www.bernsteinmedical.com/images/FUHT-29.12-Close-upOfDonorStrip.png

if the follicles are that deep then 1.5mm aint do s hit....

we need to wound around their roots i suppose.....so the stem cells and factors will be produced at that depth.....

what you think?

TO YOUNG TO RETIRE
09-26-2013, 02:52 PM
the info comes from reputable member that contacted the guys that performed the study read the hole thread and also the twin thread on ***
It never talks about best responders



Even the minoxidil group shows suspiciously fast growth

And only 20% on the people in the dermaroller group could not be considered "good responders"

This study is too good to be true, specially with the results reported so far

bigentries
09-26-2013, 03:05 PM
the info comes from reputable member that contacted the guys that performed the study read the hole thread and also the twin thread on ***

But again, who are the best responders? Because 80% of the group can be classified as very good responders

Who is the reputable member? The only guy here that claimed to contact the researchers joined the forum like 3 months ago, does he has any other posting history in other forums?

TO YOUNG TO RETIRE
09-26-2013, 03:12 PM
chill just believe what i say i dont have a reason to f around i suffer too...

cheers

TO YOUNG TO RETIRE
09-26-2013, 03:26 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wound_healing

bigentries
09-26-2013, 03:27 PM
chill just believe what i say i dont have a reason to f around i suffer too...

cheers

I'm just making some questions, I know people tend to not like skepticism, but I never understand why every cure of the month is considered "the one" that should not be questioned and you should just hope it works.

I just can't "believe what you say", sorry dude, but hairloss forums have over a decade of people using these sort of tactics without any new treatment resulting from them

I just don't like the lack of results so far, the study was too good, we should already have tons of pics showing clear regrowth

Pentarou
09-26-2013, 05:08 PM
I just can't "believe what you say", sorry dude, but hairloss forums have over a decade of people using these sort of tactics without any new treatment resulting from them
A study from a peer-reviewed journal that we can reproduce cheaply at home is something quite different to the usual 'black market substance of the week' crazes.

bigentries
09-26-2013, 05:14 PM
A study from a peer-reviewed journal that we can reproduce cheaply at home is something quite different to the usual 'black market substance of the week' crazes.

More reason to not use the same logic used with all other snake oils

If a study says amazing growth has to happen in 80% of people using it in 12 weeks (with 6 weeks being enough to see some results) but people don't report anything in 12 weeks then:
- The study was flawed
- People didn't performed it as it should, and changing variables, like needle length (or using semen!) is just speculation and has turned experimentation based in a legit study into another weird thing baldies do on hair loss forums with no real reasoning behind

DesperateOne
09-26-2013, 06:06 PM
The study does not say the results happened in 12 weeks, those amazing results were seen after about a year.

Pentarou
09-26-2013, 07:10 PM
The study does not say the results happened in 12 weeks, those amazing results were seen after about a year.
Importantly - on a shaven head, under magnification.

http://s10.postimg.org/4smvbzat5/day1_To12weeks.png

Knockin on NW4
09-26-2013, 08:21 PM
guys look

http://www.bernsteinmedical.com/images/FUHT-29.12-Close-upOfDonorStrip.png

if the follicles are that deep then 1.5mm aint do s hit....

we need to wound around their roots i suppose.....so the stem cells and factors will be produced at that depth.....

what you think?


miniaturized hairs have a shallow depth compared to terminal healthy hairs. they are at least half as deep.

Conpecia
09-26-2013, 08:46 PM
More reason to not use the same logic used with all other snake oils

If a study says amazing growth has to happen in 80% of people using it in 12 weeks (with 6 weeks being enough to see some results) but people don't report anything in 12 weeks then:
- The study was flawed
- People didn't performed it as it should, and changing variables, like needle length (or using semen!) is just speculation and has turned experimentation based in a legit study into another weird thing baldies do on hair loss forums with no real reasoning behind

dude, seriously. we know all of this shit. there is nothing to do but try it for 6 months and tweak/abandon it if nothing works. there is literally nothing else we can do at this point. nothing you are saying changes the fact that it should be tried for 6 months, regardless of what the study says. no rational person is expecting this to give him a full head of hair from NW7. we just have to have a bunch of people try it for the same amount of time most people would see results from treatments like minox or propecia. then, if only one out of fifty guys gets any kind of results after 6 months, we know pretty damn conclusively that the study was complete bs and that dermarolling with 1.5mm isn't going to bring back hair like the study suggests.

but if people listen to you and start dropping out after 2.5 or 3 months, and then out of the remaining, say, 10 people, 5 get significant regrowth... we have no clue whether those 5 were incredible responders or whether it simply takes longer. then we have to do this entire ****ing thing all over again next year instead of being able to make adjustments after 6 months with conclusive data.

you are right. it probably will not work like the study. but we will know with certainty if we try it for 6 months. and it's cheap. and once a week. and not time consuming. so let's just do it and not shoot it down over and over.

LevonHelms
09-26-2013, 09:16 PM
dude, seriously. we know all of this shit. there is nothing to do but try it for 6 months and tweak/abandon it if nothing works. there is literally nothing else we can do at this point. nothing you are saying changes the fact that it should be tried for 6 months, regardless of what the study says. no rational person is expecting this to give him a full head of hair from NW7. we just have to have a bunch of people try it for the same amount of time most people would see results from treatments like minox or propecia. then, if only one out of fifty guys gets any kind of results after 6 months, we know pretty damn conclusively that the study was complete bs and that dermarolling with 1.5mm isn't going to bring back hair like the study suggests.

but if people listen to you and start dropping out after 2.5 or 3 months, and then out of the remaining, say, 10 people, 5 get significant regrowth... we have no clue whether those 5 were incredible responders or whether it simply takes longer. then we have to do this entire ****ing thing all over again next year instead of being able to make adjustments after 6 months with conclusive data.

you are right. it probably will not work like the study. but we will know with certainty if we try it for 6 months. and it's cheap. and once a week. and not time consuming. so let's just do it and not shoot it down over and over.

Thank you

Chromeo
09-26-2013, 10:42 PM
dude, seriously. we know all of this shit. there is nothing to do but try it for 6 months and tweak/abandon it if nothing works. there is literally nothing else we can do at this point. nothing you are saying changes the fact that it should be tried for 6 months, regardless of what the study says. no rational person is expecting this to give him a full head of hair from NW7. we just have to have a bunch of people try it for the same amount of time most people would see results from treatments like minox or propecia. then, if only one out of fifty guys gets any kind of results after 6 months, we know pretty damn conclusively that the study was complete bs and that dermarolling with 1.5mm isn't going to bring back hair like the study suggests.

but if people listen to you and start dropping out after 2.5 or 3 months, and then out of the remaining, say, 10 people, 5 get significant regrowth... we have no clue whether those 5 were incredible responders or whether it simply takes longer. then we have to do this entire ****ing thing all over again next year instead of being able to make adjustments after 6 months with conclusive data.

you are right. it probably will not work like the study. but we will know with certainty if we try it for 6 months. and it's cheap. and once a week. and not time consuming. so let's just do it and not shoot it down over and over.

Yeah, what this guy says.

TO YOUNG TO RETIRE
09-27-2013, 01:44 AM
nice info thanks :)
miniaturized hairs have a shallow depth compared to terminal healthy hairs. they are at least half as deep.

bigentries
09-27-2013, 07:54 AM
The study does not say the results happened in 12 weeks, those amazing results were seen after about a year.

So they lied about the pictures? The pictures clearly say they are at 12 weeks


dude, seriously. we know all of this shit. there is nothing to do but try it for 6 months and tweak/abandon it if nothing works. there is literally nothing else we can do at this point. nothing you are saying changes the fact that it should be tried for 6 months, regardless of what the study says. no rational person is expecting this to give him a full head of hair from NW7. we just have to have a bunch of people try it for the same amount of time most people would see results from treatments like minox or propecia. then, if only one out of fifty guys gets any kind of results after 6 months, we know pretty damn conclusively that the study was complete bs and that dermarolling with 1.5mm isn't going to bring back hair like the study suggests.

but if people listen to you and start dropping out after 2.5 or 3 months, and then out of the remaining, say, 10 people, 5 get significant regrowth... we have no clue whether those 5 were incredible responders or whether it simply takes longer. then we have to do this entire ****ing thing all over again next year instead of being able to make adjustments after 6 months with conclusive data.

you are right. it probably will not work like the study. but we will know with certainty if we try it for 6 months. and it's cheap. and once a week. and not time consuming. so let's just do it and not shoot it down over and over.
Why 6 months?
Again, I don't understand this kind of rationale people use when a treatment is not going the way they expected

This year people used the same rationale with indomethacin, just wait and pray, don't question anything

I'll complete the 12 weeks, but I'm realistic, people should stop reasoning with naive optimism

And we don't have "5 out of 10" if 50% of people trying it would be getting some results, I would be claiming this is a potential treatment in the future. Besides Prettyfly, no one has provided evidence of regrowth

Pentarou
09-27-2013, 08:12 AM
How is this like indomethacin? This is based around a journal article, not some anonymous person on a hair loss forum claiming something without evidence.

bigentries
09-27-2013, 08:17 AM
How is this like indomethacin? This is based around a journal article, not some anonymous person on a hair loss forum claiming something without evidence.

Indomethacin was also based in poorly understood trials, and the guy at recuperaelpelo provided questionable evidence

The dermarolling turned into another quack treatment the moment people started to diverge from the study, and not only by increasing the period required to see results, people are starting to use semen at ***!

DesperateOne
09-27-2013, 08:19 AM
So they lied about the pictures? The pictures clearly say they are at 12 weeks


Why 6 months?
Again, I don't understand this kind of rationale people use when a treatment is not going the way they expected

This year people used the same rationale with indomethacin, just wait and pray, don't question anything

I'll complete the 12 weeks, but I'm realistic, people should stop reasoning with naive optimism

And we don't have "5 out of 10" if 50% of people trying it would be getting some results, I would be claiming this is a potential treatment in the future. Besides Prettyfly, no one has provided evidence of regrowth

No I mean the before and after where it shows their entire head and you could see cosmeticly good results. They said they followed up about 8 months later and those are the pictures they posted, after the 8 months to a year.
However, you are right that we have every right to question certain procedures specially since we now have great insight into follicas method.


After reading a lot and this derma study, I have a theory that makes sense to me. To me what we are doing by replicating this study is not the holy grail of hair follicle neogenesis, there is simply more peices of the puzzle we need for that, more recently we vitaly need an egfr inhibitor In order to to turn cells into follicles. Also, this study mentions one week intervals, when follica is clearly waiting at least two weeks, we are simply not giving it enough time to let the wounds heal.
So it seems that by going by the study protocol, we are revitalizing the scalp with nutrients and hair does grow thicker and also some hair that was lost but has not perished, will regrow again as vellus or terminal hair. So again, the study wil not produce new follicles at the current protocol, just my analysis, so take it with a grain of salt.

https://www.google.com/patents/US8252749

TO YOUNG TO RETIRE
09-27-2013, 08:31 AM
its not only pretty fly results ,,more people get results.... for sure.i saw...

just check the forums better,,,,

bigentries
09-27-2013, 08:41 AM
its not only pretty fly results ,,more people get results.... for sure.i saw...

just check the forums better,,,,

Who? at *** a guy posted pictures of his hair at a considerable distance and blurry, there is no way to tell if something is happening

Other people claiming results at *** are new users that didn't took pictures or are claiming that they "don't need to prove anything"

You keep repeating people are posting results, where are they?

TO YOUNG TO RETIRE
09-27-2013, 08:58 AM
look my friend i dont win anything either you believe or not...

scroll the pages .for you
Who? at *** a guy posted pictures of his hair at a considerable distance and blurry, there is no way to tell if something is happening

Other people claiming results at *** are new users that didn't took pictures or are claiming that they "don't need to prove anything"

You keep repeating people are posting results, where are they?

bigentries
09-27-2013, 09:02 AM
look my friend i dont win anything either you believe or not...

scroll the pages .for you

Scroll the pages? What do you mean?

At least name a few or stop claiming people are posting their results (outside of anecdotal evidence)

MackJames
09-27-2013, 09:06 AM
I'm going to following the protocol of the study meticulously until the end of the year. The protocol is straight forward and easy to follow. There is very little chance of causing harm in comparison to the oter experiments some have partaken in. I'm a pretty objective person and if I see no results I will be honest about it.

hellouser
09-27-2013, 09:07 AM
I'm going to following the protocol of the study meticulously until the end of the year. The protocol is straight forward and easy to follow. There is very little chance of causing harm in comparison to the oter experiments some have partaken in. I'm a pretty objective person and if I see no results I will be honest about it.

Your hair will tell the story. No need for being objective :P

MackJames
09-27-2013, 09:11 AM
Your hair will tell the story. No need for being objective :P



Some people see things they want to see out of desperation for a viable treatment.

hellouser
09-27-2013, 09:14 AM
Some people see things they want to see out of desperation for a viable treatment.

Those people have bigger problems than hair loss. Too bad theyre allowed to speak in public.... this forum included.

MackJames
09-27-2013, 09:17 AM
Those people have bigger problems than hair loss. Too bad theyre allowed to speak in public.... this forum included.

I feel for them and their struggle but I also agree with you. It's time to see a therapist when one starts putting semen on their head.

chimera
09-27-2013, 09:41 AM
look my friend i dont win anything either you believe or not...

scroll the pages .for you

What are you talking about?, DesperatOne in here, super and squeeguee on ***, and dodgept on hlh... who else besides this guys have posted pics?

Not only that, but the pics posted by all those guys are just useless. Bad quality with no before pictures.

chimera
09-27-2013, 09:43 AM
Still... who knows?... we still have one more month ahead of us... maybe will see something that makes continue with the dermaroller worth...

If by november most of us see at least a considerable (and beyond any doubt) amount of at least just vellus hair, I would still say this is worth a shoot...

chimera
09-27-2013, 09:44 AM
Not only that, but the pics posted by all those guys are just useless. Bad quality with no before pictures.

Excluding prettyfly pictures. Those were good quality (though hard to tell if his results are from dermaroller plus minox or just minox alone).

DesperateOne
09-27-2013, 09:57 AM
What are you talking about?, DesperatOne in here, super and squeeguee on ***, and dodgept on hlh... who else besides this guys have posted pics?

Not only that, but the pics posted by all those guys are just useless. Bad quality with no before pictures.

Everyone, just disregard chimera and his negativity. We should see this all the way, at least six months since that's how long it usually takes for new hair to appear. Don't mind his armchair scientist ego let you down, we all feel a difference. We obviously donh have super high quality cameras to take before and after pictures to make this pawn believe us. Nor do we have to prove anything to him, this is all experimentation and he has forgotten about that part.

hellouser
09-27-2013, 10:38 AM
Everyone, just disregard chimera and his negativity. We should see this all the way, at least six months since that's how long it usually takes for new hair to appear. Don't mind his armchair scientist ego let you down, we all feel a difference. We obviously donh have super high quality cameras to take before and after pictures to make this pawn believe us. Nor do we have to prove anything to him, this is all experimentation and he has forgotten about that part.

I've posted this many times before but the term 'good quality' is so vague it is meaningless. Define 'good quality' ?? I can take a 5 year old point and shoot camera and take pictures of my hair and get results that would satisfy all of you with your expectations of a 2 thousand dollar digital SLR camera. Its not about a 'good quality' camera, its about knowing how to USE a camera.

You guys are starting to sound like John Madden;

'Todays game is about great football. Because playing great football is great football and playing great football is great football. These guys on the field are playing great football and if they weren't playing great football it'd just be mediocre football, but they're out there playing great football and thats what great football is all about'

Tracey is particularly guilty of this. Throws out the 'good quality' excuse without giving any definition behind it.

We're trying to be as scientific as possible here by potentially following Follica's wounding method so it requires great detail and we're just going to toss around 'good quality' as if it means something?

chimera
09-27-2013, 10:43 AM
Everyone, just disregard chimera and his negativity. We should see this all the way, at least six months since that's how long it usually takes for new hair to appear. Don't mind his armchair scientist ego let you down, we all feel a difference. We obviously donh have super high quality cameras to take before and after pictures to make this pawn believe us. Nor do we have to prove anything to him, this is all experimentation and he has forgotten about that part.

I know we are all diferent. But the study we are following said three months. If we follow a protocol we saw at the study, yet we hope for a different outcome there's something wrong in here, can't you see it?

You can't choose to pick what you like or what you want, and to ignore what you don't want or you don't like. You can't just choose to follow the same metodology of the study, but choose for a different outcome, that is, an extended time-frame. You just want to convince yourself that you will see results in more time (which you may I admit).

If we are following a determined protocol, the least, the least we can do is to expect determined results (with the obvious variables we are bond to get), but right now the only constant is no results (that may change soon, I hope).

You tell "everyone" not to hear me, like if anybody trust you at all. In here and ***, you are seen by most people as nothing more than a psychotic. More than one have already pointed out how good choice you made with your username.

(Whatever, I already know I am not loved either).

chimera
09-27-2013, 10:46 AM
By the way, I'm not saying we should stop just yet. I'm just criticising in my own way this part of the process, just as any other part of it should be. I'm still waiting for results, as awesome or humble as they might be. At this point I do think this will help us in some way or another.

As I said before, I don't think we'll get the same results the study pointed out, yet, just because we don't get the same results, that does not mean I think the use of the dermaroller or the wounding theory won't work in some way.

gainspotter
09-27-2013, 10:55 AM
Updating my current regimen.
After dermarolling I am covering my scalp in 'essential' oils, leaving them for half an hour then shampooing with nizoral and adding minox.
See if anything happens.

DesperateOne
09-27-2013, 11:02 AM
I know we are all diferent. But the study we are following said three months. If we follow a protocol we saw at the study, yet we hope for a different outcome there's something wrong in here, can't you see it?

You can't choose to pick what you like or what you want, and to ignore what you don't want or you don't like. You can't just choose to follow the same metodology of the study, but choose for a different outcome, that is, an extended time-frame. You just want to convince yourself that you will see results in more time (which you may I admit).

If we are following a determined protocol, the least, the least we can do is to expect determined results (with the obvious variables we are bond to get), but right now the only constant is no results (that may change soon, I hope).

You tell "everyone" not to hear me, like if anybody trust you at all. In here and ***, you are seen by most people as nothing more than a psychotic. More than one have already pointed out how good choice you made with your username.

(Whatever, I already know I am not loved either).

People have already contacted them and they admitted in being vague about some aspects of he protocol such as bleeding. Why can't you get that through you thick skull!? Also, I may be seen as desperate but I have done more than any one of you chickens has done. Why haven't any one you posted any pictures what so ever? Are you scared of the camera or what.

I said not to lisen to you because your comments implicitly say that after three months of replicating the study we see no results, then this is another quack treatment. May I remind you that a lot of people read this without posting.

@hellouser, well I don't know anymore about good quality. I know my pics are crap but if you take a look at the very first ones and one of the recent ones, then even with bay quality, you would be a fool not to see regrowth.

And yes, we are getting close to follica, specially now with that new patent, it was on of the important parts of the puzzle, but we still need to get som lithium.

the_dude78
09-27-2013, 11:50 AM
Updating my current regimen.
After dermarolling I am covering my scalp in 'essential' oils, leaving them for half an hour then shampooing with nizoral and adding minox.
See if anything happens.

I'm not sure it is wise to add nizoral so soon. It has an anti-inflammatory effect.

gainspotter
09-27-2013, 12:12 PM
I'm not sure it is wise to add nizoral so soon. It has an anti-inflammatory effect.

What would be the effect of adding it after? Sorry I'm not that clued up on it. I just think adding all the essentials immediately after would increase absorbtion and effect. I know the study isn't about increasing absorbtion I just want to mix it up a bit see if I get any results.

MackJames
09-27-2013, 12:23 PM
People have already contacted them and they admitted in being vague about some aspects of he protocol such as bleeding. Why can't you get that through you thick skull!? Also, I may be seen as desperate but I have done more than any one of you chickens has done. Why haven't any one you posted any pictures what so ever? Are you scared of the camera or what.

I said not to lisen to you because your comments implicitly say that after three months of replicating the study we see no results, then this is another quack treatment. May I remind you that a lot of people read this without posting.

@hellouser, well I don't know anymore about good quality. I know my pics are crap but if you take a look at the very first ones and one of the recent ones, then even with bay quality, you would be a fool not to see regrowth.

And yes, we are getting close to follica, specially now with that new patent, it was on of the important parts of the puzzle, but we still need to get som lithium.


I haven't posted pictures yet because I buzzed my hair down to the scalp and wanted it to grow out some. My hair is almost completely gray white as well. Took my first pic on Tuesday

Conpecia
09-27-2013, 01:33 PM
So they lied about the pictures? The pictures clearly say they are at 12 weeks


Why 6 months?
Again, I don't understand this kind of rationale people use when a treatment is not going the way they expected

This year people used the same rationale with indomethacin, just wait and pray, don't question anything

I'll complete the 12 weeks, but I'm realistic, people should stop reasoning with naive optimism

And we don't have "5 out of 10" if 50% of people trying it would be getting some results, I would be claiming this is a potential treatment in the future. Besides Prettyfly, no one has provided evidence of regrowth

THEN STOP AFTER 3 MONTHS. WHAT THE **** IS WRONG WITH YOU MAN?

what are you trying to prove here? do you think i don't question the study too? do you think i am going to roll needles into my skull for 5 ****ing years just to see if it takes longer than 6 months?? i am doing it for 6 months because that's what experts TELL you to do with MOST hair treatments. i DO NOT think i will get results like the study. i DO NOT think we are on to the cure for male pattern baldness. i DO think that there is a SMALL ****ING CHANCE that i will see slightly improved growth on my hairline.

please tell me how that is naively optimistic??? enlighten me...

bigentries
09-27-2013, 01:54 PM
THEN STOP AFTER 3 MONTHS. WHAT THE **** IS WRONG WITH YOU MAN?

what are you trying to prove here? do you think i don't question the study too? do you think i am going to roll needles into my skull for 5 ****ing years just to see if it takes longer than 6 months?? i am doing it for 6 months because that's what experts TELL you to do with MOST hair treatments. i DO NOT think i will get results like the study. i DO NOT think we are on to the cure for male pattern baldness. i DO think that there is a SMALL ****ING CHANCE that i will see slightly improved growth on my hairline.

please tell me how that is naively optimistic??? enlighten me...

Wow, don't get so mad man, I know people don't like questioning here. That's what I call naive optimism, just see how you reacted, don't tell me you are not internalizing all this stuff

Experts tell you to wait 2 years with fin too. But you are comparing apple to oranges, the study clearly claimed amazing results in 12 weeks, that is enough to compare ourselves to the study.

Increasing time, using larger needles, putting semen on your head, it stopped being scientific a long time ago.

Don't see this as an attack, I'm still in, I'll complete 12 weeks, maybe will go to 14 because I don't think I performed the first two sessions with enough damage, I will also wish more people joined us and completed the 12 weeks as it should

But all of you that hang out at *** have just turned this thing into another mental masturbation circle that potential treatments end up falling, even some are claiming lots of people are showing results when the only clear evidence has been the one provided by Prettyfly

greatjob!
09-27-2013, 02:04 PM
I'm also not sure what people are trying to accomplish arguing here. Are you trying to convince people to stop rolling after a certain time frame? What's the point of that?

If you want to stop then stop. If you want to roll for 10 years then roll for 10 years. Trying to convince someone to stop testing a certain treatment is only going to hurt yourself and everyone in the community. Let people do whatever they want, who cares, the more people trying different things for different periods of time the more information will be gained by the community.

If you are going to stop rolling after 12 weeks then go ahead and do that, but why would you try and convince everyone that your strategy is right and they should all do the same, it makes no sense.

bigentries
09-27-2013, 02:29 PM
I'm also not sure what people are trying to accomplish arguing here. Are you trying to convince people to stop rolling after a certain time frame? What's the point of that?

If you want to stop then stop. If you want to roll for 10 years then roll for 10 years. Trying to convince someone to stop testing a certain treatment is only going to hurt yourself and everyone in the community. Let people do whatever they want, who cares, the more people trying different things for different periods of time the more information will be gained by the community.

If you are going to stop rolling after 12 weeks then go ahead and do that, but why would you try and convince everyone that your strategy is right and they should all do the same, it makes no sense.
Why doesn't it make some sense?
The study clearly said that at 12 weeks, extremely good results are shown. If you want to continue, continue, but you are not following the study anymore and just using cargo science logic

People have the right to state their opinion, if you don't have a solid point to back up your arguments, then don't post anything if you don't like the replies

Imagine if people didn't have the right to state that stuff like CG 210 is crap. Should we stop replying just because habemus is going to be offended?

What about lasers, micropigmentation, etc.?

greatjob!
09-27-2013, 02:56 PM
Why doesn't it make some sense?
The study clearly said that at 12 weeks, extremely good results are shown. If you want to continue, continue, but you are not following the study anymore and just using cargo science logic

People have the right to state their opinion, if you don't have a solid point to back up your arguments, then don't post anything if you don't like the replies

Imagine if people didn't have the right to state that stuff like CG 210 is crap. Should we stop replying just because habemus is going to be offended?

What about lasers, micropigmentation, etc.?
You are way off topic and making irrelevant comparisons. Why would you discourage people to stop rolling after 12 weeks? What does anyone gain from that? That's what makes no sense.

I know what the study said and what the time frame was, however show me one single treatment for hairloss that you would expect to show results at 3 months. They don't exist. So thinking that if you don't see results after 3 months then everyone should stop, isn't logical. This was a pilot study, if a follow up study was conducted it would no doubt have longer and varying time periods. So I don't think we should be trying to replicate the study exactly with regards to the time frame, instead we should be trying to conduct our own follow up study to see if results can improve with an increase in duration.

Also speaking up against snake oils that are very expensive is good for everyone, because it saves people money. However that is not equivalent to speaking up about derma rolling, it cost next to nothing so by speaking up and getting people to stop you're not really helping anyone. You're just arguing for the sake of arguing and trying to show people on the internet that you have a superior scientific mind, trust me we are all so impressed.


http://i1000.photobucket.com/albums/af128/greatjob_/5zKXz_zps55bde552.gif

LevonHelms
09-27-2013, 03:18 PM
Alright, alright, break it up guys.

Let's get a head count.
How many people do we have out there following the study? Lurkers this includes you. Sign in.

A simple yay or nay, what week you're on, and perceived results (good or bad).



Yes. Week 9. Lots of vellus, a few terminals, rapid growth.

chimera
09-27-2013, 03:49 PM
Yes. Week 9. Lots of vellus, a few terminals, rapid growth.

For real?. I don't think anybody will get the same awesome results that the study suggested, but if you could prove something like this I would get somewhat excited indeed. Anyway, I suppose you have your reasons to not post pics yet.

bigentries
09-27-2013, 03:54 PM
You are way off topic and making irrelevant comparisons. Why would you discourage people to stop rolling after 12 weeks? What does anyone gain from that? That's what makes no sense.

I know what the study said and what the time frame was, however show me one single treatment for hairloss that you would expect to show results at 3 months. They don't exist. So thinking that if you don't see results after 3 months then everyone should stop, isn't logical. This was a pilot study, if a follow up study was conducted it would no doubt have longer and varying time periods. So I don't think we should be trying to replicate the study exactly with regards to the time frame, instead we should be trying to conduct our own follow up study to see if results can improve with an increase in duration.

Also speaking up against snake oils that are very expensive is good for everyone, because it saves people money. However that is not equivalent to speaking up about derma rolling, it cost next to nothing so by speaking up and getting people to stop you're not really helping anyone. You're just arguing for the sake of arguing and trying to show people on the internet that you have a superior scientific mind, trust me we are all so impressed.


http://i1000.photobucket.com/albums/af128/greatjob_/5zKXz_zps55bde552.gif
Did you seriously stopped so low as to use an insulting gif? Are your arguments not enought?

So what I understand is that, you don't believe the study could show results in 3 months? Then you are admitting you think the study is bogus

If the study claimed it took them 6 months to show results, I would advice everyone to do it as it is described by study. But the study is very clear, 3 months is enough, and if nothing shows up in 3 months, then we either need to question the legitimacy of the study, or the way we are perform it it

But people are getting defensive and don't want to question either one of those possibilities

Instead of fighting like children, let's argue and try to understand this

Why are there no results yet? Things are not going well

My position is that most of us are doing exactly what the study says, at least the ones that are using 1.5mm needles until slight hemorrhage occurs.
I don't trust the study completely now, since people are starting to claim the pictures labeled as 12-week results are said to be 1 year results

TO YOUNG TO RETIRE
09-27-2013, 03:54 PM
friends how you do?

my roller arrives soon.,...

please god make it work....

Levon give us some pics...we hair starve haire...

good night brothers

chimera
09-27-2013, 03:57 PM
Alright, alright, break it up guys.

Let's get a head count.
How many people do we have out there following the study? Lurkers this includes you. Sign in.


There are many meticulously curious people in here. To avoid further questions and chaos, it would be nice if we also point out the rest of our treatment (minox, fin, keto or whatever, and since how long have we been on these).

greatjob!
09-27-2013, 04:01 PM
Did you seriously stopped so low as to use an insulting gif? Are your arguments not enought?

So what I understand is that, you don't believe the study could show results in 3 months? Then you are admitting you think the study is bogus

If the study claimed it took them 6 months to show results, I would advice everyone to do it as it is described by study. But the study is very clear, 3 months is enough, and if nothing shows up in 3 months, then we either need to question the legitimacy of the study, or the way we are perform it it

But people are getting defensive and don't want to question either one of those possibilities

Instead of fighting like children, let's argue and try to understand this

Why are there no results yet? Things are not going well

My position is that most of us are doing exactly what the study says, at least the ones that are using 1.5mm needles until slight hemorrhage occurs.
I don't trust the study completely now, since people are starting to claim the pictures labeled as 12-week results are said to be 1 year results

Well you seemed to only focus on the GIF when you should have focused on what I said like:


This was a pilot study, if a follow up study was conducted it would no doubt have longer and varying time periods. So I don't think we should be trying to replicate the study exactly with regards to the time frame, instead we should be trying to conduct our own follow up study to see if results can improve with an increase in duration.

I could really careless what you think about the study or derma rolling in general. I'm going to do this for a year. If it does nothing then I'll stop.I just don't see the point in trying to convince people to stop the treatment after 12 weeks, but whatever have fun.

bigentries
09-27-2013, 04:14 PM
I could really careless what you think about the study or derma rolling in general. I'm going to do this for a year. If it does nothing then I'll stop.I just don't see the point in trying to convince people to stop the treatment after 12 weeks, but whatever have fun.

But why do a "follow up" if you don't know if the first study is right in the first place?

Seriously, I don't understand the logic you are using, the point of this thread was to replicate the study, to avoid all variables and see if the numbers added up.
There are also studies concerning laser helmets and CG 210, in case you want to try those too.

Anyway, my info:
3 years on fin
4 years ago used minox for a year, stopped after seeing no results
7 weeks applying minox, 6 weeks dermarolling
Nothing to report concerning results, no increased shedding, no vellus hair

bibz
09-27-2013, 04:15 PM
3th session of 2.0mm dermarolling just like the clinical trial but only on the temple area and hairline, and i got a ****ing huge shedding on these area, is that a good or bad sign guyz?

greatjob!
09-27-2013, 04:38 PM
But why do a "follow up" if you don't know if the first study is right in the first place?

Seriously, I don't understand the logic you are using, the point of this thread was to replicate the study, to avoid all variables and see if the numbers added up.
There are also studies concerning laser helmets and CG 210, in case you want to try those too.


I'm not performing a study with anyone, that's my point. Why are you so concerned with trying to convince people to stop rolling after 12 weeks, who cares. If you want to follow the study to the exact letter and stop after 12 weeks then that's fine, but why do you think other people should do the same?

I'm not trying to produce a study, I'm trying to regrow my hair and I don't expect that to happen in 3 months so I'm going to give it more time. You and everyone else are free to do what ever you like. You don't see me trying to convince people to roll as long as me, because frankly I don't care and I am perplexed why you or any one else does. I really don't know what bad you think could possibly come from people rolling longer than 12 weeks. I'm not altering the method at all besides giving more time to see results because I don't see any point in not giving it more time, I lose nothing by doing so. Anyways I don't care about this enough to continue to engage in a pointless circular argument with you, if you want to try and get everyone to stop rolling at 12 weeks knock yourself out.

TO YOUNG TO RETIRE
09-28-2013, 01:42 AM
everybody roll

everybody

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wyk-AOAUuo

Tracy C
09-28-2013, 05:06 PM
Thought I typically don't like you tracey...

Most of the guys here do not like to hear the truth and that is exactly why they, like you, do not like me. Honestly, that's ya'lls problem.

Now spell my name right. LOL

john2399
09-28-2013, 05:14 PM
friends how you do?

my roller arrives soon.,...

please god make it work....

Levon give us some pics...we hair starve haire...

good night brothers

God don't care about hairloss.

JDW
09-28-2013, 05:25 PM
3th session of 2.0mm dermarolling just like the clinical trial but only on the temple area and hairline, and i got a ****ing huge shedding on these area, is that a good or bad sign guyz?

Are you using minoxidil with it? how long have you been using it if so?

DesperateOne
09-29-2013, 05:36 PM
3th session of 2.0mm dermarolling just like the clinical trial but only on the temple area and hairline, and i got a ****ing huge shedding on these area, is that a good or bad sign guyz?

How in the world are we able to know if you're shedding from anything if you haven't shared your story?

We need to know when you started to use finasteride(if you're on it), minoxidil or any other topical meant for MPB.

Although, I have to mention that I had my hair loss relatively controlled and now that I started to derma roll, I have seen a massive shed in the last month, this is my second month, if that means anything.

Tracy C
09-29-2013, 07:55 PM
This is my third Sunday night with this - did I mention that this hurts a lot. I will soldier on through though to see what happens in four to six months.

StayThick
09-29-2013, 09:51 PM
Guys I'm slowly seeing terminal hair in the corners of my hairline (areas where I vigorously apply) that I haven't seen in years. Im slowly getting very excited.

I obviously need much more regrowth to be satisfied and to gain the necessary coverage, but clearly this has some substance to it. I will no doubt keep with this.

chimera
09-30-2013, 03:31 AM
Guys I'm slowly seeing terminal hair in the corners of my hairline (areas where I vigorously apply) that I haven't seen in years. Im slowly getting very excited.

I obviously need much more regrowth to be satisfied and to gain the necessary coverage, but clearly this has some substance to it. I will no doubt keep with this.

How many weeks have you been on it?

brunobald
09-30-2013, 03:36 AM
This is my third Sunday night with this - did I mention that this hurts a lot. I will soldier on through though to see what happens in four to six months.

Tracy I have been hearing quite a lot of good reports regarding the derma pen and the fact that it is a lot less painfull. Im not sure how well it works with long hair though?

bibz
09-30-2013, 05:18 AM
3 weeks on 2.0mm dermaroll, and 2+ years on minox

Bocaj
09-30-2013, 06:35 AM
Tracy I have been hearing quite a lot of good reports regarding the derma pen and the fact that it is a lot less painfull. Im not sure how well it works with long hair though?


I don't think it'd be a problem going in one direction or even a little back and forth or even circular motions. My hair is quite short at the moment so am not having any problems.

Conpecia
09-30-2013, 02:51 PM
Guys I'm slowly seeing terminal hair in the corners of my hairline (areas where I vigorously apply) that I haven't seen in years. Im slowly getting very excited.

I obviously need much more regrowth to be satisfied and to gain the necessary coverage, but clearly this has some substance to it. I will no doubt keep with this.

this is great news staythick, you're a trusted dude so it's good to hear that you're getting results. please take pics if things get interesting.

Kiwi
09-30-2013, 03:06 PM
Guys I'm slowly seeing terminal hair in the corners of my hairline (areas where I vigorously apply) that I haven't seen in years. Im slowly getting very excited.

I obviously need much more regrowth to be satisfied and to gain the necessary coverage, but clearly this has some substance to it. I will no doubt keep with this.

Does your head look all butchered like after a hair transplant right after you've done your rolling? I'd love to see some photos :)

Artha
09-30-2013, 03:27 PM
Does your head look all butchered like after a hair transplant right after you've done your rolling? I'd love to see some photos :)
There a way to do it that leave no scar!

DesperateOne
09-30-2013, 11:09 PM
Like in the movie saw, "Oh yes... there will be blood".
Also, pain lots of pain!!!

35YrsAfter
10-01-2013, 07:39 AM
There a way to do it that leave no scar!

Rather than growing hair, micro needling is known to improve the appearance of scars rather than create new ones.

35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office
forhair.com
Cole Hair Transplant
1045 Powers Place
Alpharetta, Georgia 30009
Phone 678-566-1011
email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
Please feel free to call or email me with any questions. Ask for Chuck

gainspotter
10-01-2013, 07:44 AM
I'm continuing with the rolling yet I'm tapering off minox as I hate the stuff. I'm going to see if just rolling and nizoral will have any results. Even maintaining what I have will be a result for me.

brunobald
10-01-2013, 11:07 AM
Hellouser, as the starter of this thread are you seeing any results?

hellouser
10-01-2013, 11:37 AM
Hellouser, as the starter of this thread are you seeing any results?

Nope. And I'm on Kane's CB + Kirkland's Minoxidil 5%.

Pentarou
10-01-2013, 11:45 AM
Which week milestone are you at, Hell?

From lurking the various forums, this sounds like the Big 3, as in some people are responding quicker than others.

How heavily are you rolling, BTW? Some are hypothesising that if you really butcher your scalp, waiting 10-14 days between rolling sessions may be better. That's just conjecture at this stage, however.

hellouser
10-01-2013, 01:02 PM
Which week milestone are you at, Hell?

From lurking the various forums, this sounds like the Big 3, as in some people are responding quicker than others.

How heavily are you rolling, BTW? Some are hypothesising that if you really butcher your scalp, waiting 10-14 days between rolling sessions may be better. That's just conjecture at this stage, however.

I've posted photos of my scalp after rolling. Theres some bleeding. Its not heavy but its definitely gone deep enough to bleed a bit. I'm pressing hard on my 1.5mm dermaroller ensuring it goes the full 1.5mm. Obviously, it won't go furhter than that since the needles aren't any longer.

PatientlyWaiting
10-01-2013, 01:53 PM
Hellouser, you're on both CB and Minoxidil, plus the derma roller, and you're not seeing ANY results? I don't know if I missed anything you've said against fin or dut, but have you tried these two? They could be what your treatment has been missing. I would never get on any treatment without fin or dut, that would be an uphill battle.

hellouser
10-01-2013, 02:26 PM
Hellouser, you're on both CB and Minoxidil, plus the derma roller, and you're not seeing ANY results? I don't know if I missed anything you've said against fin or dut, but have you tried these two? They could be what your treatment has been missing. I would never get on any treatment without fin or dut, that would be an uphill battle.

Never tried.

However, Merck just announced theyre cutting costs, 2.5 billion and cutting 8,000+ jobs.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/international-business/us-business/merck-to-slash-8500-jobs-looks-to-cut-25-billion-in-costs-annually/article14621267/

That put a big smile on my face. All the more reason for a superior alternative to Fin.

I should mention though that any results I may have now are going to be slow to be seen as I endured a long and REALLY BAD shed for about 3+ months.

Bocaj
10-01-2013, 03:20 PM
^ Thank you Obama.

hellouser
10-01-2013, 03:30 PM
^ Thank you Obama.

Out with the old, in with the new. Its not like 8,000 jobs will no longer be available. And why should treatments continue to exist when we should be pushing for CURES?

Bocaj
10-01-2013, 03:36 PM
Oh it's worse than just 8,000 jobs..and it's been that way for years now. And going to part-time.

I'm not a Merck/drug company fan at all btw.

Conpecia
10-01-2013, 04:31 PM
just finished session lucky number 7. man, what an alpha treatment. really takes some jewels to see your scalp get shredded like that.

still no results but not expecting anything for a while.

Conpecia
10-01-2013, 04:32 PM
by the way, bigentries, those photos in the study were taken at 8 months, not 3 months.

UK_
10-01-2013, 04:46 PM
^ Thank you Obama.

Oh yes because the one thing we need is more tax cuts for the American ultra-class.

The rich of America are living in a different universe of wealth and hyper-opulence, and no, it doesnt trickle down and make the poor better off, dont peddle that 80's myth.

bigentries
10-01-2013, 05:17 PM
by the way, bigentries, those photos in the study were taken at 8 months, not 3 months.

Where does it says that? I can't find it anywhere in the study. The photos clearly state they are "baseline" and 12 weeks pictures

They only mention retrospective questioning, nothing about when the pics were taken

PatientlyWaiting
10-01-2013, 05:53 PM
Never tried.

However, Merck just announced theyre cutting costs, 2.5 billion and cutting 8,000+ jobs.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/international-business/us-business/merck-to-slash-8500-jobs-looks-to-cut-25-billion-in-costs-annually/article14621267/

That put a big smile on my face. All the more reason for a superior alternative to Fin.

I should mention though that any results I may have now are going to be slow to be seen as I endured a long and REALLY BAD shed for about 3+ months.

A slightly superior alternative to fin is dutasteride, in terms of results. But I know what you mean, the negative side effects. Why don't you give dutasteride a try? At least one 0.5mg pill a week, it's better than nothing at all. Then after a month you do 2 a week, then 3 a week, etc.

hellouser
10-01-2013, 06:02 PM
A slightly superior alternative to fin is dutasteride, in terms of results. But I know what you mean, the negative side effects. Why don't you give dutasteride a try? At least one 0.5mg pill a week, it's better than nothing at all. Then after a month you do 2 a week, then 3 a week, etc.

Would rather give Fin a go... but once a week. Spencer Kobren is on it once a week. With the topical applications of CB, Minox and RU (gonna be back on it soon) as well as Dermarolling and Nizoral, I should do well.

Bocaj
10-01-2013, 06:11 PM
Oh yes because the one thing we need is more tax cuts for the American ultra-class.

The rich of America are living in a different universe of wealth and hyper-opulence, and no, it doesnt trickle down and make the poor better off, dont peddle that 80's myth.

Waaaaaaaaaaaaa the rich. Waaaaaaaaa they only pay the vast majority of taxes. Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaa :D


Tax cuts for all. The 80's kicked ass. Of course we're getting ours kicked now..when it should be Obama's.

greatjob!
10-01-2013, 06:43 PM
Oh yes because the one thing we need is more tax cuts for the American ultra-class.

The rich of America are living in a different universe of wealth and hyper-opulence, and no, it doesnt trickle down and make the poor better off, dont peddle that 80's myth.

+1


Waaaaaaaaaaaaa the rich. Waaaaaaaaa they only pay the vast majority of taxes. Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaa


Tax cuts for all. The 80's kicked ass. Of course we're getting ours kicked now..when it should be Obama's.

Shut up and go turn on Hannity and let them feed you some mindless propaganda to perpetuate your delusion of reality. This is a hairloss forum not a "I'm losing my hair because of Obama" forum. Go back to blaming everything in the world on Obama, "OMG I stubbed my toe must be Obama and those damned Mexicans", and let the adults discuss hairloss.

Bocaj
10-01-2013, 06:49 PM
+1



Shut up and go turn on Hannity and let them feed you some mindless propaganda to perpetuate your delusion of reality. This is a hairloss forum not a "I'm losing my hair because of Obama" forum. Go back to blaming everything in the world on Obama, "OMG I stubbed my toe must be Obama and those damned Mexicans", and let the adults discuss hairloss.

And there it is folks. Already telling me to shut up. It's either that or name calling. And where did I say I'm losing my hair because of Obama? We're losing plenty of other things..but hair....? Reread my Obama reference..and what I was responding to. K?

But now that you bring it up..it's Obama blaming everything on everybody else. :cool:

Bocaj
10-01-2013, 07:00 PM
just finished session lucky number 7. man, what an alpha treatment. really takes some jewels to see your scalp get shredded like that.

still no results but not expecting anything for a while.

So that's 7 weeks, right?

UK_
10-01-2013, 10:12 PM
Waaaaaaaaaaaaa the rich. Waaaaaaaaa they only pay the vast majority of taxes. Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaa :D


Tax cuts for all. The 80's kicked ass. Of course we're getting ours kicked now..when it should be Obama's.

Starbucks infested the UK years ago, they've singlehandedly wiped out thousands of local businesses (soft competitors) and put many thousands more out of work - despite all of their greed & destruction to what were prosperous and loved local high street businesses they've paid only Ģ8.6 million in tax since they've been in the UK.

Your counter-argument is that we should allow these corporations to avoid tax b/c they provide jobs and economic growth blah blah blah - as if the demand for coffee would be non-existent without their presence, and allowing multi-nationals to avoid tax while they throat-fcuk local businesses who are required to pay tax by law is hardly fair now is it?

Knockin on NW4
10-01-2013, 10:58 PM
Starbucks infested the UK years ago, they've singlehandedly wiped out thousands of local businesses (soft competitors) and put many thousands more out of work - despite all of their greed & destruction to what were prosperous and loved local high street businesses they've paid only Ģ8.6 million in tax since they've been in the UK.

Your counter-argument is that we should allow these corporations to avoid tax b/c they provide jobs and economic growth blah blah blah - as if the demand for coffee would be non-existent without their presence, and allowing multi-nationals to avoid tax while they throat-fcuk local businesses who are required to pay tax by law is hardly fair now is it?


the customer decides to drink starbucks because their coffee is deliciuos... whats evil about that? if mom and pop could make better coffee and do it as efficiently as starbucks, then the consumer would spend their money with the little guys...


no one forces u or anyone else to support these “evil" corporations. they are just really good at what hey do. If u think u can do it better, whats stopping you from starting a coffee company???

Chromeo
10-01-2013, 11:02 PM
To be fair we're here to talk about dermarolling, lads. Couldn't give two sh1ts about your politics. Try to stay on topic.

UK_
10-01-2013, 11:53 PM
the customer decides to drink starbucks because their coffee is deliciuos... whats evil about that? if mom and pop could make better coffee and do it as efficiently as starbucks, then the consumer would spend their money with the little guys...


no one forces u or anyone else to support these “evil" corporations. they are just really good at what hey do. If u think u can do it better, whats stopping you from starting a coffee company???

Not necessarily, if Starbucks have managed to wipe out all other competitors and driven the barriers of entry sky high disabling any (as you call them) mom & pop operations there's hardly going to be a great deal of diversity on the high street.

But my prime argument (which you obviously failed to read) is that their ability to create such barriers has been supported by their continued efforts to avoid paying any tax in the UK, which has only come to light recently after rigorous investigation... at... the expense of (guess who?)... the tax payer.

Mom & pop are long gone, good honest businesses were wiped off UK high streets years ago... Mom & Pop are now wage slaves for some universal demigod faceless corporate entity. Here's to Anglo-American Neo Liberalism.

greatjob!
10-02-2013, 12:04 AM
To be fair we're here to talk about dermarolling, lads. Couldn't give two sh1ts about your politics. Try to stay on topic.

Direct that comment to the guy who felt the need to inject his politics into the thread unsolicited:


^ Thank you Obama.

MackJames
10-02-2013, 01:52 AM
just finished session lucky number 7. man, what an alpha treatment. really takes some jewels to see your scalp get shredded like that.

still no results but not expecting anything for a while.

Completed week six. Wife thinks I'm crazy but is encouraging. Haven't noticed a change yet but I'm patient.

Bocaj
10-02-2013, 07:49 AM
Direct that comment to the guy who felt the need to inject his politics into the thread unsolicited:

A 3 word response to someone who felt the need to talk about job losses. So if we want to play this game- direct that comment to him...and then we can direct that comment to those who couldn't just ignore mine..... ;)

BTW..I don't even care for Starbucks..due to the CEO's politics. Which is pretty funny given what the complaint about them here is!

Bocaj
10-02-2013, 07:53 AM
Completed week six. Wife thinks I'm crazy but is encouraging. Haven't noticed a change yet but I'm patient.

I think I'm going to go overboard right before the trick or treaters show up this Halloween. A little blood shouldn't scare them too much..right?

MackJames
10-02-2013, 08:35 AM
I think I'm going to go overboard right before the trick or treaters show up this Halloween. A little blood shouldn't scare them too much..right?



The kids will love it. I'll be dressed as pinhead.

Conpecia
10-02-2013, 01:17 PM
jacob,

yeah i'm at 7 weeks. definitely seeing some action at the receded hairline but that could just be minox. vellus hair has stayed about the same. i'm not going to give a legitimate evaluation until jan of 2014. i'm also on dut and have had a horrific shed the past 3 weeks so there's that...

UK_
10-02-2013, 04:39 PM
jacob,

yeah i'm at 7 weeks. definitely seeing some action at the receded hairline but that could just be minox. vellus hair has stayed about the same. i'm not going to give a legitimate evaluation until jan of 2014. i'm also on dut and have had a horrific shed the past 3 weeks so there's that...

If you're on other meds, there's no way of telling if derma+minox is helping you.

greatjob!
10-02-2013, 05:51 PM
direct that comment to him...

His post was in no way political, that was you, but you can tell yourself what ever you want to feed into your false narrative.

mmmcoffee
10-02-2013, 07:09 PM
Might I suggest a results only thread? Getting hard to follow this thread with all of the bullshit in between

greatjob!
10-02-2013, 07:12 PM
Might I suggest a results only thread? Getting hard to follow this thread with all of the bullshit in between

It would be a pretty short thread considering only one person, maybe two I can't remember, have posted pictures.

PatientlyWaiting
10-02-2013, 07:52 PM
Might I suggest a results only thread? Getting hard to follow this thread with all of the bullshit in between

The BS in between is needed. It's like a reality show.

I think as long as the in between discussions are about dermarolling, or how to enhance your results, it's fine.

Notcoolanymore
10-02-2013, 07:55 PM
Might I suggest a results only thread? Getting hard to follow this thread with all of the bullshit in between

Yes. I am curious to see the results people are getting.

Bocaj
10-02-2013, 08:53 PM
His post was in no way political, that was you, but you can tell yourself what ever you want to feed into your false narrative.


But his comment was not about dermarolling, was it? ;) Quit making things up, and your own rules, to feed into your own false narrative.

Now go ahead..pick out one part of that you want to quote and....

Bocaj
10-02-2013, 08:59 PM
Might I suggest a results only thread? Getting hard to follow this thread with all of the bullshit in between

A new thread with something simple..like:

1. How long have you been 'rolling...
2. What length needles are you using...
3. How often are you 'rolling...
4. Which 'roller/stamp/pen are you using....
5. What results, if any..are you seeing...
6. What else are you using/applying...
etc

Not necessarily in that order...but it' be easier to follow imo.

greatjob!
10-02-2013, 09:05 PM
But his comment was not about dermarolling, was it? ;) Quit making things up, and your own rules, to feed into your own false narrative.

Now go ahead..pick out one part of that you want to quote and....

His comment was related to hairloss, as in merck was loosing money and cutting jobs and since he hates propecia he was happy. Then you decided to inject your politics into a hairloss forum. That is not a false narrative. Discussion over. Although seeing how people like you usually have little appetite for facts I'm sure you will continue to claim you didn't needlessly inject politics into a hairloss forum.

Bocaj
10-02-2013, 09:09 PM
His comment had NOTHING to do with the topic of dermarolling, which is what you kids were whining about. Just because my 3 word response was "political", doesn't change the fact that I was responding to a comment on jobs- not dermarolling. Got it? Then look at the responses I got.

Shall we clutter this up all night? I'm finished- grow some hair!

hellouser
10-02-2013, 09:12 PM
A weird thing happened a few days ago;

I noticed not a gray hair, but a completely TRANSPARENT hair. And not just a vellus short hair, but one thats been growing a while as it was about 1.5-2 inches in length.

I've no idea what this means, maybe someone can chime in?

greatjob!
10-02-2013, 09:13 PM
His comment had NOTHING to do with the topic of dermarolling, which is what you kids were whining about. Just because my 3 word response was "political", doesn't change the fact that I was responding to a comment on jobs- not dermarolling. Got it? Then look at the responses I got.

Shall we clutter this up all night? I'm finished- grow some hair!

No I was whining about you injecting politics. There is no place for it here, it just devolves into exactly what is happening. This is tbt 90% of the posts here are off topic.

I'm glad you're dumb..I mean done.

Bocaj
10-02-2013, 09:29 PM
A weird thing happened a few days ago;

I noticed not a gray hair, but a completely TRANSPARENT hair. And not just a vellus short hair, but one thats been growing a while as it was about 1.5-2 inches in length.

I've no idea what this means, maybe someone can chime in?

Maybe I should know this..but what color is your hair normally? I guess it would really seem strange if you had dark hair..but it's pretty common to see "transparent" hair when it's first growing- hasn't gone terminal.

Edit..here's an example from ***:
After 3months of Minoxidil treatment i was getting regrowth, which could be best described as weak and transparent. However after 6months a lot of this hair turned thicker. I was on Finasteride as well.

I'm guessing for that particular hair of yours it's just taking longer...?

PatientlyWaiting
10-02-2013, 09:30 PM
A new thread with something simple..like:

1. How long have you been 'rolling...
2. What length needles are you using...
3. How often are you 'rolling...
4. Which 'roller/stamp/pen are you using....
5. What results, if any..are you seeing...
6. What else are you using/applying...
etc

Not necessarily in that order...but it' be easier to follow imo.

So go make the thread then, and enforce your rules of "No results, no post".

Bocaj
10-02-2013, 09:37 PM
^You must have me confused with someone else...on the "No results, no post" thing.....

hellouser
10-02-2013, 09:57 PM
Maybe I should know this..but what color is your hair normally? I guess it would really seem strange if you had dark hair..but it's pretty common to see "transparent" hair when it's first growing- hasn't gone terminal.

Edit..here's an example from ***:

I'm guessing for that particular hair of yours it's just taking longer...?

I don't know, because that was already growing for a while, like I said, it was about 1.5 inches. So, either I never noticed it... or it just turned transparent.

Bocaj
10-02-2013, 10:01 PM
I recall polar bears- their hair is actually clear/transparent..but something about the way light hits it etc..it appears white. I noticed stray ones of mine look a bit transparent. When they're all together it doesn't look that way.

No, I'm not a polar bear.

rogering
10-02-2013, 10:25 PM
I have to disagree, it's not about needle length causing injury, it's about getting the minoxidil past the startum corneum (the skin's natural barrier) and the needles stimulating healthy blood flow, exfoliating and massaging increasing scalp health. This whole 'no pain, no gain' business is very last century!!

The biggest problem with using needles 1mm or greater is that they cause excessive pain and bleeding that inhibits the user from effectively treating themselves, it's as simple as that. The other downside is that the longer the needle the quicker they become blunt, a 1.5mm needle will only have a 4-6 uses before it becomes too blunt, a 1mm needle 1 - 2 months use max.

In addition it has been shown that skin needling by itself stimulates hair regrowth in the temple and hairline areas, minoxidil only stimulates hair regrowth in the crown area.

I have been using a 0.75mm needle daily for over 2 years with minoxidil 5% and copper peptides. I am really happy and my roller lasts for 12 months.

MackJames
10-03-2013, 07:47 AM
I recall polar bears- their hair is actually clear/transparent..but something about the way light hits it etc..it appears white. I noticed stray ones of mine look a bit transparent. When they're all together it doesn't look that way.

No, I'm not a polar bear.


I'm nearly completely white/grey haired. All my siblings went white early as did my father. My wife comments on my hair being almost clear.

walrus
10-03-2013, 09:12 AM
I have to disagree, it's not about needle length causing injury, it's about getting the minoxidil past the startum corneum

In addition it has been shown that skin needling by itself stimulates hair regrowth in the temple and hairline areas

Do you have any proof for these statements?

Conpecia
10-03-2013, 09:13 AM
If you're on other meds, there's no way of telling if derma+minox is helping you.

if i regain all of my hairline i'm pretty sure that's not just dutasteride. but if results aren't incredible then yes you're right. either way people need to put their regimens up honestly for objective data.

chimera
10-03-2013, 09:29 AM
I have to disagree, it's not about needle length causing injury, it's about getting the minoxidil past the startum corneum (the skin's natural barrier) and the needles stimulating healthy blood flow, exfoliating and massaging increasing scalp health. This whole 'no pain, no gain' business is very last century!!

The biggest problem with using needles 1mm or greater is that they cause excessive pain and bleeding that inhibits the user from effectively treating themselves, it's as simple as that. The other downside is that the longer the needle the quicker they become blunt, a 1.5mm needle will only have a 4-6 uses before it becomes too blunt, a 1mm needle 1 - 2 months use max.

In addition it has been shown that skin needling by itself stimulates hair regrowth in the temple and hairline areas, minoxidil only stimulates hair regrowth in the crown area.

I have been using a 0.75mm needle daily for over 2 years with minoxidil 5% and copper peptides. I am really happy and my roller lasts for 12 months.

You should take a minute to read the study we're following.

It is precisely about causing injury. We NEED to make damage (at least a certain, controled amount). We don't do this to create canals for minoxidil to get throuth the stratum corneum. We do it because we want wnt, but to release this protein we need to activate the healing process of the follicles, and the only way to do it is to cause some damage first. For us, causing trauma and giving the tissue time enough to reppair itself is very important.

Chromeo
10-03-2013, 09:35 AM
I have to disagree, it's not about needle length causing injury, it's about getting the minoxidil past the startum corneum (the skin's natural barrier) and the needles stimulating healthy blood flow, exfoliating and massaging increasing scalp health. This whole 'no pain, no gain' business is very last century!!

Wrong. Completely different theory.

greatjob!
10-03-2013, 11:13 AM
I have to disagree, it's not about needle length causing injury, it's about getting the minoxidil past the startum corneum (the skin's natural barrier) and the needles stimulating healthy blood flow, exfoliating and massaging increasing scalp health. This whole 'no pain, no gain' business is very last century!!

The biggest problem with using needles 1mm or greater is that they cause excessive pain and bleeding that inhibits the user from effectively treating themselves, it's as simple as that. The other downside is that the longer the needle the quicker they become blunt, a 1.5mm needle will only have a 4-6 uses before it becomes too blunt, a 1mm needle 1 - 2 months use max.

In addition it has been shown that skin needling by itself stimulates hair regrowth in the temple and hairline areas, minoxidil only stimulates hair regrowth in the crown area.

I have been using a 0.75mm needle daily for over 2 years with minoxidil 5% and copper peptides. I am really happy and my roller lasts for 12 months.
So much wrong in one place

cloud9
10-03-2013, 01:02 PM
Hi guys. I have been reading the posts about dermarolling . I have a dermaroller with the 1.50 mm needles so I may give this a try once a week .

Here is a tread from immortalhair that may help with rolling . http://immortalhair.forumandco.com/t9447p45-scalp-peeling-with-20-Hi guys
A guy their is using a scalp peel with a 20 % glycolic acid and getting great results . He applies the peel once every day and leaves it on over night . Shampoos it off then uses a scalp massager to take off the dry skin . His before and after pictures are amazing . Take a look

Axel
10-03-2013, 01:10 PM
I have to disagree, it's not about needle length causing injury, it's about getting the minoxidil past the startum corneum (the skin's natural barrier) and the needles stimulating healthy blood flow, exfoliating and massaging increasing scalp health. This whole 'no pain, no gain' business is very last century!!

The biggest problem with using needles 1mm or greater is that they cause excessive pain and bleeding that inhibits the user from effectively treating themselves, it's as simple as that. The other downside is that the longer the needle the quicker they become blunt, a 1.5mm needle will only have a 4-6 uses before it becomes too blunt, a 1mm needle 1 - 2 months use max.

In addition it has been shown that skin needling by itself stimulates hair regrowth in the temple and hairline areas, minoxidil only stimulates hair regrowth in the crown area.

I have been using a 0.75mm needle daily for over 2 years with minoxidil 5% and copper peptides. I am really happy and my roller lasts for 12 months.

OMG what a noob... Dude start reading the threads from the first page or you risk looking like a retard...

chimera
10-03-2013, 01:34 PM
The guy in those pics did not used glycolic acid, he used salicylic acid (the guy who started that thread is using glycolic acid, but he is not the one in that pic).

Great results (if they are real). Wonder what's the difference between glycolic acid and salicylic acid and which option is better...

clandestine
10-03-2013, 01:40 PM
cloud9; that is very, very interesting. I've read through thr entirety of the tread.

The OP's results look good, though I wish there were a before (and of better quality).

http://i75.servimg.com/u/f75/17/41/27/64/before10.png

This result that another user posted, salicylic acid peel, shows tremendous growth if true.

Bocaj
10-03-2013, 02:21 PM
Hi guys. I have been reading the posts about dermarolling . I have a dermaroller with the 1.50 mm needles so I may give this a try once a week .

Here is a tread from immortalhair that may help with rolling . http://immortalhair.forumandco.com/t9447p45-scalp-peeling-with-20-Hi guys
A guy their is using a scalp peel with a 20 % glycolic acid and getting great results . He applies the peel once every day and leaves it on over night . Shampoos it off then uses a scalp massager to take off the dry skin . His before and after pictures are amazing . Take a look

Ha..some of us think those pictures are actually of IH himself. Notice he took his own pictures down from his website. As I recall..the site those pics are from also went into a # of things IH has said and/or uses. Or are they from yet another site???

fred970
10-03-2013, 02:32 PM
This is IH's hair, I recognize it too.

Those website and forum are a complete scam and should be shut down.

Bocaj
10-03-2013, 02:48 PM
And he's still plagiarizing. Anyone feel free to pm me(from anywhere) for the latest example. Or the latest example I've found..with just a quick search.

Now back to dermarolling.....

fred970
10-03-2013, 03:20 PM
Can't we do something to report that website?

chimera
10-03-2013, 04:24 PM
This is IH's hair, I recognize it too.

Those website and forum are a complete scam and should be shut down.

No idea if it works or not, but how would glycolic acid be a scam?...

It's not like the guy from that thread is selling it, as you can find it almost everywhere...

Bocaj
10-03-2013, 04:43 PM
He's not talking about that part of the thread. It's the site that was linked to there..the guy behind it..and the pictures in that thread.

clandestine
10-03-2013, 07:08 PM
Ok, so you feel the original poster is lying as well?


After a while without posting in the forum, now I have something interesting to share with you :-)

First of all, I'll show what motivated me to do this experiment (found in an acne forum):

''The pathogenesis of male-pattern-baldness (MPB) is the same as acne. The first step in acne is a condition called follicular-hyperkeratinization or hyperkeratosis. Simply put, this means excess skin production inside and around the hair-follicle. The next step is caused by excess sebum production, followed by P.Acnes infestation of the pilosebaceous-follicle, with subsequent inflammation. So to summarize, MPB, just like acne, is caused by four main factors: (1) follicular-hyperkeratinization, (2) excess sebum production, (3) P.Acnes, and (4) inflammation [1].

Free-IGF-1 (insulin-like-growth-factor-1) stimulates the proliferation of keratinocytes (skin cells below the scalp). As the keratinocytes mature, they migrate to the top of the scalp and become what is known as corneocytes. If all goes well, the corneocytes are supposed to be shed off the scalp in a process called apoptosis. The shedding of corneocytes or the apoptosis of corneocytes, is under the influence of IGFBP-3 (insulin-like-growth-factor-binding-protein-3) and endogenous retinoids. In men with male-pattern-baldness, they have excess free-IGF-1 and not enough IGFBP-3 [2]. The result of this is hyperkeratinization; too much skin production, and not enough skin exfoliation. This causes the hair-follicle to be blocked by excess skin. Free-IGF-1 is required for keratinocyte proliferation in humans [3] and too much IGF-1 results in hyperkeratosis [4].

So, in order to reverse hyperkeratosis, exfoliating the scalp is needed. Using glycolic-acid topically is suggested. Glycolic-acid is what's called an alpha-hydroxy-acid. Alpha-hydroxy-acids are shown to diminish corneocyte cohesion, induce exfoliation and reverse hyperkeratosis. This should promote regrowth.

My experience: for the last 3 weeks, I've been using a 20% glycolic-acid lotion on my scalp every other day. In between days of scalp peel, I massage the scalp with a cheap body massager (sample: http://shopping-digital.com.ar/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Masajeador-TURBO.jpg) in order to remove the dead-skin-cell "build-up" from my scalp. The massager does the job properly: while massaging, you could see dead skin falling as snow!

The results: Iīm regrowing hair in areas where I thought it never would regrow again... Itīs really an interesting approach and I am eager to see better results with each successive peeling...

I was wondering to try a 30% concentration, although itīs better to stick with "donīt fix it if ainīt broke" Wink

A recent pic of my receding hairline:
http://i76.servimg.com/u/f76/18/53/74/41/captur10.jpg

As someone else mentioned, he couldn't be selling anything; he's using glycolic acid, which can be bought anywhere.

And is apparently seeing terminal hair growth below his temporal recession.

Bocaj
10-03-2013, 07:43 PM
No, I never said anything about the original poster. Unless those are HIS pictures in that thread. I'm referring to the pictures that are shown in the thread..not any links to any if there are any...

Nor did I or anyone else that I can see say that the OP was selling anything.

rogering
10-03-2013, 08:08 PM
So much wrong in one place



Interesting.......I am unaware of any scientific reason or evidence as to how injuring your scalp (or in this case your dermis by using long needles) can stimulate hair regrowth. The injury to the dermis caused by skin needling stimulates collagen and elastin production to infill indented scars and improve skin texture and tone. There is no proof or reasoning to suggest that injuring dermis can stimulate hair regrowth. Rather skin needling stimulates hair regrowth by improved circulation via massage and scalp health via the stimulation of healthy exfoliation.

In fact, as the bulb or base of the hair follicle (where hair growth occurs and blood vessels attach to the hair follicle) is located in the lower dermis above the blood vessels in our skin there is great potential for longer needles to damage the hair follicle thereby actually inhibiting hair regrowth.

It is for this reason that shorter needles, 0.75mm in length, are able to pierce the stratum corneum and the epidermal/dermal junction enabling a radical increase in the absorption of product to the hair follicle whilst ensuring that the base of the follicle is protected.

Skin needling stimulates hair regrowth by -

* radically increasing the absorption of product
* massaging the scalp increasing blood flow to the scalp and hair follicles
* gently exfoliating the scalp promoting scalp health

It is the beauty of the process, it's simplicity.

clandestine
10-03-2013, 08:26 PM
Aright,

clandestine
10-03-2013, 08:26 PM
Alright, well it looks interesting is all I'm saying.

cloud9
10-04-2013, 03:47 AM
Hi guys. I have been reading the posts about dermarolling . I have a dermaroller with the 1.50 mm needles so I may give this a try once a week .

Here is a tread from immortalhair that may help with rolling . http://immortalhair.forumandco.com/t9447p45-scalp-peeling-with-20-Hi guys
A guy their is using a scalp peel with a 20 % glycolic acid and getting great results . He applies the peel once every day and leaves it on over night . Shampoos it off then uses a scalp massager to take off the dry skin . His before and after pictures are amazing . Take a lookI made a mistake posting this . Read the tread from the very first post on page one .He is the one with the good results .

fred970
10-04-2013, 03:56 AM
No idea if it works or not, but how would glycolic acid be a scam?...

It's not like the guy from that thread is selling it, as you can find it almost everywhere...

This guy also offers 99$ Skype consultations for hair loss on his forum. It allows him to advice people to try more bogus methods to regrow their hair.

Bocaj
10-04-2013, 06:48 AM
This guy also offers 99$ Skype consultations for hair loss on his forum. It allows him to advice people to try more bogus methods to regrow their hair.

Just so ppl know...Fred is referring to Immortalhair there...not the OP of that thread.

chimera
10-04-2013, 07:04 AM
I don't understand.... is immortal-hair a forum or a person?

Bocaj
10-04-2013, 07:20 AM
I don't understand.... is immortal-hair a forum or a person?

Ha..it's both. Although he changed his nick to Causticsymmetry for whatever reason. Maybe it had something to do with the Immortalhair-plagiarizing link....

Back to dermarolling...I've decided to rotate the pen with my .25 vibrating dermaroller. Give the gouging my scalp a bit more of a break while still giving it a workout in-between- it does get all red and numb from using it.

greatjob!
10-04-2013, 12:09 PM
Interesting.......I am unaware of any scientific reason or evidence as to how injuring your scalp (or in this case your dermis by using long needles) can stimulate hair regrowth.


"Hi I'm Dr. George Cotsarelis, have we met?"


The injury to the dermis caused by skin needling stimulates collagen and elastin production to infill indented scars and improve skin texture and tone. There is no proof or reasoning to suggest that injuring dermis can stimulate hair regrowth. Rather skin needling stimulates hair regrowth by improved circulation via massage and scalp health via the stimulation of healthy exfoliation.

In fact, as the bulb or base of the hair follicle (where hair growth occurs and blood vessels attach to the hair follicle) is located in the lower dermis above the blood vessels in our skin there is great potential for longer needles to damage the hair follicle thereby actually inhibiting hair regrowth.

It is for this reason that shorter needles, 0.75mm in length, are able to pierce the stratum corneum and the epidermal/dermal junction enabling a radical increase in the absorption of product to the hair follicle whilst ensuring that the base of the follicle is protected.

Skin needling stimulates hair regrowth by -

* radically increasing the absorption of product
* massaging the scalp increasing blood flow to the scalp and hair follicles
* gently exfoliating the scalp promoting scalp health

It is the beauty of the process, it's simplicity.


The entire basis of this thread is this study:

http://www.ijtrichology.com/article.asp?issn=0974-7753;year=2013;volume=5;issue=1;spage=6;epage=11;a ulast=Dhurat

Which you clearly did not read. For like the 1 millionth time this is not about absorption, it is about wounding to up-regulate growth factors that stimulate hair growth. This is what Dr. Cots and follica's entire work is based on.

From the intorduction of the stury above which is found on the first page of this thread:



Introduction: Dermal papilla (DP) is the site of expression of various hair growth related genes. Various researches have demonstrated the underlying importance of Wnt proteins and wound growth factors in stimulating DP associated stem cells. Microneedling works by stimulation of stem cells and inducing activation of growth factors.

Chromeo
10-04-2013, 02:02 PM
Lol, gotta love this Rogering character. It's like he just stepped out of the Delorean from 1985 and doesn't have a clue what's going on here.

hellouser
10-04-2013, 02:23 PM
lol, gotta love this rogering character. it's like he just stepped out of the delorean from 1985 and doesn't have a clue what's going on here.

lmao!

Conpecia
10-04-2013, 02:46 PM
Lol, gotta love this Rogering character. It's like he just stepped out of the Delorean from 1985 and doesn't have a clue what's going on here.

a new contender emerges for post of the year.


seriously, i wish guys would just read the first post of a thread.

walrus
10-04-2013, 02:47 PM
Lol, gotta love this Rogering character. It's like he just stepped out of the Delorean from 1985 and doesn't have a clue what's going on here.

:D

ResearchNeverfails
10-04-2013, 02:57 PM
It would be wise for somebody in this community to use the dermaroller in conjunction with abstinence. Just a thought.

Pentarou
10-04-2013, 03:40 PM
How would it help anyone to combine dermarolling with a highly alcoholic green wormwood-based beverage of Swiss origin?

LevonHelms
10-04-2013, 04:19 PM
How would it help anyone to combine dermarolling with a highly alcoholic green wormwood-based beverage of Swiss origin?

Now there's a combination I could get behind!

bigentries
10-04-2013, 04:41 PM
How would it help anyone to combine dermarolling with a highly alcoholic green wormwood-based beverage of Swiss origin?

How many of the Impressionists were bald? they were addicted to that crap

greatjob!
10-04-2013, 04:56 PM
Unless your using abstinence to dull the pain I don't see how it would help with hairloss. I've been having a few drinks before rolling to kill the pain and it works pretty well.

Tracy C
10-04-2013, 09:02 PM
Dang this thread is getting long. It's taking quite a while for me to catch up on what folks are saying.


However, Merck just announced theyre cutting costs, 2.5 billion and cutting 8,000+ jobs.

That put a big smile on my face. All the more reason for a superior alternative to Fin.

8,000+ people losing their jobs puts a smile on your face? You are evil.




In addition it has been shown that skin needling by itself stimulates hair regrowth in the temple and hairline areas, minoxidil only stimulates hair regrowth in the crown area.

Hmmm that's not very accurate... The proof about needling has yet to be confirmed. Minoxidil works wherever there are hair follicles that can be repaired and restarted. Usually for men that is the vertex and mid-anterior. For women it's all over the head. The male hairline and temples are different simply due to other factors associated with being male.

hellouser
10-04-2013, 10:31 PM
8,000+ people losing their jobs puts a smile on your face? You are evil.

I see context is not your strong suit. Not surprising.

baldybald
10-04-2013, 11:12 PM
hey hellouser here am back, and did you get any hair from your stupid dermaroller? i do not think so, you only get sh*t !!

greatjob!
10-05-2013, 12:18 AM
hey hellouser here am back, and did you get any hair from your stupid dermaroller? i do not think so, you only get sh*t !!

Whatever mental problem you're suffering from the meds aren't helping, you should probably double the dose...

Koga
10-05-2013, 07:56 AM
hey guys, so it seems like some of us are getting really thick peach fuzz growing from the dermarolling. For me some of them are turning into terminal hairs, but at a very slow rate. Anyone here have any ideas or theories on how to help push vellus hairs towards terminal hairs?

Chromeo
10-05-2013, 08:28 AM
hey guys, so it seems like some of us are getting really thick peach fuzz growing from the dermarolling. For me some of them are turning into terminal hairs, but at a very slow rate. Anyone here have any ideas or theories on how to help push vellus hairs towards terminal hairs?

Keep rolling.

Koga
10-05-2013, 09:06 AM
Keep rolling.

very helpful.

pat
10-05-2013, 10:00 AM
hey guys, so it seems like some of us are getting really thick peach fuzz growing from the dermarolling. For me some of them are turning into terminal hairs, but at a very slow rate. Anyone here have any ideas or theories on how to help push vellus hairs towards terminal hairs?

what needle size dermaroller are you using?