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35YrsAfter
08-20-2013, 01:03 PM
How would vitamin D3 be applied? Orally or topically? I suppose topically, no?

Vitamin D is not one, but many chemicals. The natural type is created in the skin from a universally present form of cholesterol, 7-dehydrocholesterol. Sunlight's is the key. Ultraviolet B (UVB) energy converts the precursor to vitamin D3. Contrast that to most dietary supplements that are manufactured by exposing a plant sterol to ultraviolet energy, that produces vitamin D2. Because their function is nearly identical, D2 and D3 are lumped together and simply called vitamin D.

35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office
www.forhair.com
Cole Hair Transplant
1045 Powers Place
Alpharetta, Georgia 30009
Phone 678-566-1011
email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
Please feel free to call or email me with any questions. Ask for Chuck

hellouser
08-20-2013, 01:05 PM
Vitamin D is not one, but many chemicals. The natural type is created in the skin from a universally present form of cholesterol, 7-dehydrocholesterol. Sunlight's is the key. Ultraviolet B (UVB) energy converts the precursor to vitamin D3. Contrast that to most dietary supplements that are manufactured by exposing a plant sterol to ultraviolet energy, that produces vitamin D2. Because their function is nearly identical, D2 and D3 are lumped together and simply called vitamin D.

35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office
www.forhair.com
Cole Hair Transplant
1045 Powers Place
Alpharetta, Georgia 30009
Phone 678-566-1011
email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
Please feel free to call or email me with any questions. Ask for Chuck

Perhaps wounding + sun tanning could give SOME kind of benefits?

Conpecia
08-20-2013, 02:47 PM
FINALLY got my god damn dermaroller!!! looks like i'm a bit behind but better late than never... i'm going to be replicating the study to the T: mild redness with some blood, minox 6 days a week. However, i'll also be on Dut and Regenepure! So hopefully this will give me major regrowth and will prevent further loss!!!

hellouser
08-20-2013, 02:52 PM
FINALLY got my god damn dermaroller!!! looks like i'm a bit behind but better late than never... i'm going to be replicating the study to the T: mild redness with some blood, minox 6 days a week. However, i'll also be on Dut and Regenepure! So hopefully this will give me major regrowth and will prevent further loss!!!

Good luck dude! Hopefully we all get results! :)

brunobald
08-20-2013, 02:56 PM
Perhaps wounding + sun tanning could give SOME kind of benefits?

Why not combine both in a handy six hour sun bed session. :D

hellouser
08-20-2013, 02:57 PM
Why not combine both in a handy six hour sun bed session. :D

LOL, that would probably fry the hell out of my skin.

the_dude78
08-20-2013, 03:14 PM
So if this stimulates the weaker follicles as well, shouldn't we see less shedding relatively early on, maybe within 3-5 weeks? Any thoughts?

hellouser
08-20-2013, 03:17 PM
So if this stimulates the weaker follicles as well, shouldn't we see less shedding relatively early on, maybe within 3-5 weeks? Any thoughts?

Doubt it, if anything, probably more. Just like Minox typically causes a shed when PGE2 levels are elevated, dermarolling should have a similar effect. Although noone has said anything about shedding except me though its most likely due to me getting off of RU and going through a summer minoxidil shed. Joy.

StayThick
08-20-2013, 03:35 PM
How would vitamin D3 be applied? Orally or topically? I suppose topically, no?

The past 2 weeks I have applied 10,000 IU of Vitamin D3 with MSM topically to the hairline.

I will apply it to the hairline occasionally after a dermarolling session as well. I am not sure if the Minox, dermarolling, or D3 is the culprit, but I am seeing dark brown terminal sprouts in areas of my hairline that have not seen hair in quite some time.

Im getting excited, but I need much more of this to somewhat fill the loss in these areas. I'm feeling optimistic.

hellouser
08-20-2013, 03:39 PM
The past 2 weeks I have applied 10,000 IU of Vitamin D3 with MSM topically to the hairline.

I will apply it to the hairline occasionally after a dermarolling session as well. I am not sure if the Minox, dermarolling, or D3 is the culprit, but I am seeing dark brown terminal sprouts in areas of my hairline that have not seen hair in quite some time.

Im getting excited, but I need much more of this to somewhat fill the loss in these areas. I'm feeling optimistic.

Try going to a tanning salon a couple times after a dermarolling session. Maybe it could help?

Conpecia
08-20-2013, 03:39 PM
Ok, after my first rolling experience:

either i have a superhuman tolerance for pain or i'm not doing it right. rolled for a good 3 minutes along the hairline in various directions, had the velcro sound going full effect, several spots of blood and mild redness. maybe my nerves are just not that sensitive up there, but i've got at least 50 bloodspots from pricks and the pain was at most a 3.5-4 of 10. not trying to sound like a badass, just want to make sure i did it right. should i have rolled longer? deeper?

StayThick
08-20-2013, 03:42 PM
Try going to a tanning salon a couple times after a dermarolling session. Maybe it could help?

I have actually been outside the past 3 weekends soaking in tons of sun. I'm literally dark as all hell right now. And yes I do believe vitamin D in the form of the sun's rays has a positive effect on hair.

StayThick
08-20-2013, 03:43 PM
Ok, after my first rolling experience:

either i have a superhuman tolerance for pain or i'm not doing it right. rolled for a good 3 minutes along the hairline in various directions, had the velcro sound going full effect, several spots of blood and mild redness. maybe my nerves are just not that sensitive up there, but i've got at least 50 bloodspots from pricks and the pain was at most a 3.5-4 of 10. not trying to sound like a badass, just want to make sure i did it right. should i have rolled longer? deeper?

Sounds like you are doing it correct. Maybe the skin in the areas of application are not as thin as others.

I do draw blood now, but it is definitely painful. I have to close my eyes at times and bite on a towel. It's that unpleasant for me, especially along the hairline which is the most painful.

I sneeze and eyes still water.

hellouser
08-20-2013, 03:44 PM
Ok, after my first rolling experience:

either i have a superhuman tolerance for pain or i'm not doing it right. rolled for a good 3 minutes along the hairline in various directions, had the velcro sound going full effect, several spots of blood and mild redness. maybe my nerves are just not that sensitive up there, but i've got at least 50 bloodspots from pricks and the pain was at most a 3.5-4 of 10. not trying to sound like a badass, just want to make sure i did it right. should i have rolled longer? deeper?

How hard are you pressing against your skin? I pressed quite hard to make sure it was piercing ALL the way in at 1.5mm. I didn't have loads of blood, but enough spots.

This is what I did to my right temple:

http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l490/hellouser/dermarolling/13-08-14-right-temple.jpg

However, that was done after several rolls over the area and pressing just hard enough to pierce all the way through.

Conpecia
08-20-2013, 03:46 PM
my whole area looks the way your frontal hairline looks, those sparse amounts of blood, but not like higher up.

LevonHelms
08-20-2013, 04:07 PM
Perhaps wounding + sun tanning could give SOME kind of benefits?

I'll let you know if does. I own a tanning salon, so it'll be pretty easy for me to throw some tanning sessions in the mix. :D

Shedding seems to have decreased in the past couple weeks for me, but I switched from Nizoral 2% weekly to Regenepure daily at about the same time so who knows. And I'm keeping a close eye on some vellus and a few terminal hairs that seem to have doubled in length all of a sudden.

hellouser
08-20-2013, 04:15 PM
I'll let you know if does. I own a tanning salon, so it'll be pretty easy for me to throw some tanning sessions in the mix. :D

Shedding seems to have decreased in the past couple weeks for me, but I switched from Nizoral 2% weekly to Regenepure daily at about the same time so who knows. And I'm keeping a close eye on some vellus and a few terminal hairs that seem to have doubled in length all of a sudden.

Thanks man! I go to a tanning salon occasionally as well so I might hit the bed after a dermarolling session, perhaps go and sit for about 10-14 minutes (I don't like going for longer as it can increase chances of cancer of course, so I keep it moderate).

Brock Landers
08-20-2013, 08:17 PM
Hellhouser,

Around 3-4 years ago, this guy named Baccy over on on the Hair Site forum tried to replicate the follica experiments, He even provided pictures and everything. I remember in the beginning he was getting a lot of stubble, don't remember what happened in the end, i think it kind of tailed off.

One of the threads can be found if you go to that site and type in "Folica experimenting" and scroll to the bottom of search results. I definitely suggest you read up on what he did, might be useful for your experiements. About that time too, a lot of guys on that site were trying dermarolling too, nothing spectacular happened....

Brock

Brock Landers
08-20-2013, 08:44 PM
35 years,

Since you work in a HT clinic, would you be able to inquire as to any risks of long term damage by eitiher normal microneedling or excessive microneedling. Is there a chance that we could be scarring, or if not scarring our skin, making it thicker such that it would harm results of a future transplant in the recepient area?

NeedHairASAP
08-20-2013, 08:58 PM
http://www.ijtrichology.com/article.asp?issn=0974-7753;year=2013;volume=5;issue=1;spage=6;epage=11;a ulast=Dhurat

Introduction: Dermal papilla (DP) is the site of expression of various hair growth related genes. Various researches have demonstrated the underlying importance of Wnt proteins and wound growth factors in stimulating DP associated stem cells. Microneedling works by stimulation of stem cells and inducing activation of growth factors. Materials and Methods: Hundred cases of mild to moderate (III vertex or IV) androgenetic alopecia (AGA) were recruited into 2 groups. After randomization one group was offered weekly microneedling treatment with twice daily 5% minoxidil lotion (Microneedling group); other group was given only 5% minoxidil lotion. After baseline global photographs, the scalp were shaved off to ensure equal length of hair shaft in all. Hair count was done in 1 cm 2 targeted fixed area (marked with tattoo) at baseline and at end of therapy (week 12). The 3 primary efficacy parameters assessed were: Change from baseline hair count at 12 weeks, patient assessment of hair growth at 12 weeks, and investigator assessment of hair growth at 12 weeks. A blinded investigators evaluated global photographic response. The response was assessed by 7- point scale. Results: (1) Hair counts - The mean change in hair count at week 12 was significantly greater for the Microneedling group compared to the Minoxidil group (91.4 vs 22.2 respectively). (2) Investigator evaluation - Forty patients in Microneedling group had +2 to +3 response on 7-point visual analogue scale, while none showed the same response in the Minoxidil group. (3) Patient evaluation - In the Microneedling group, 41 (82%) patients reported more than 50% improvement versus only 2 (4.5%) patients in the Minoxidil group. Unsatisfied patients to conventional therapy for AGA got good response with Microneedling treatment. Conclusion: Dermaroller along with Minoxidil treated group was statistically superior to Minoxidil treated group in promoting hair growth in men with AGA for all 3 primary efficacy measures of hair growth. Microneedling is a safe and a promising tool in hair stimulation and also is useful to treat hair loss refractory to Minoxidil therapy.

DesperateOne
08-20-2013, 09:50 PM
Well today I did another pass of derma roller and I have to say that it was freaking painful as hell. I can feel the trauma setting in, like my head is pounding. The thing is that it got super red but no blood came out, I don't know what that says about me. Also, I where I noticed that when I rolled, I felt a lot of pain but I didn't really feel like it was going all the way in. What I then decided to do was to do it the long way, to put it in one place and press on it until I felt it went all the way in, and that does feel like it is doing much more. The only problem is that it took me like 30 minutes to do my head because I am a defuse thinner and so I had to press all my head. So in conclusion, I think it's more effective to just press and let the thing go all the way in and make sure, but you do have to put in more time regardless if you're a defuse thinner or not.

I also decided to take a little sunlight, I always wear a hat(that's the only way I feel kinda normal) and was socking up some vitamin D :)

DesperateOne
08-20-2013, 10:05 PM
UPDATE: I think this will help a lot of guys out, I found a way that it seems reduce the pain a lot, by at least half. So when we're rolling or wounding, we usually just focus on the procedure, so that immediately boosts the pain. I think it's kinda like when you're eating lunch and if you actually pay attention to the taste, you will savor your lunch, if you just talk and eat, well then you will not taste much. So what I did was, I got a picture of a girl I like, and stared at it while wounding with my other hand. I wear on my life that it made it super less painful, to the point to where it was almost not noticeable. Anyways, it doesn't have to be a girl, but I suppose that with sex on your mind should reduce the pain the most. Good luck everyone.

LevonHelms
08-20-2013, 11:08 PM
I prefer vodka, but whatever works;)

greatjob!
08-20-2013, 11:13 PM
UPDATE: I think this will help a lot of guys out, I found a way that it seems reduce the pain a lot, by at least half. So when we're rolling or wounding, we usually just focus on the procedure, so that immediately boosts the pain. I think it's kinda like when you're eating lunch and if you actually pay attention to the taste, you will savor your lunch, if you just talk and eat, well then you will not taste much. So what I did was, I got a picture of a girl I like, and stared at it while wounding with my other hand. I wear on my life that it made it super less painful, to the point to where it was almost not noticeable. Anyways, it doesn't have to be a girl, but I suppose that with sex on your mind should reduce the pain the most. Good luck everyone.

OMFG!! This is so wrong!!

the_dude78
08-20-2013, 11:16 PM
Hellhouser,

Around 3-4 years ago, this guy named Baccy over on on the Hair Site forum tried to replicate the follica experiments, He even provided pictures and everything. I remember in the beginning he was getting a lot of stubble, don't remember what happened in the end, i think it kind of tailed off.

One of the threads can be found if you go to that site and type in "Folica experimenting" and scroll to the bottom of search results. I definitely suggest you read up on what he did, might be useful for your experiements. About that time too, a lot of guys on that site were trying dermarolling too, nothing spectacular happened....

Brock


http://www.*************/hair-loss/forum_entry-id-37248.html

Well, that was not very encouraging at all.. Does anybody know if he continuously wounded the area or was it just a one time thing? Seems like he only did it once.

the_dude78
08-21-2013, 01:01 AM
UPDATE: I think this will help a lot of guys out, I found a way that it seems reduce the pain a lot, by at least half. So when we're rolling or wounding, we usually just focus on the procedure, so that immediately boosts the pain. I think it's kinda like when you're eating lunch and if you actually pay attention to the taste, you will savor your lunch, if you just talk and eat, well then you will not taste much. So what I did was, I got a picture of a girl I like, and stared at it while wounding with my other hand. I wear on my life that it made it super less painful, to the point to where it was almost not noticeable. Anyways, it doesn't have to be a girl, but I suppose that with sex on your mind should reduce the pain the most. Good luck everyone.

Okay...so that was a little weird..

I use a .5 mm roller first, I feel it helps to numb the scalp a little bit before I use the 1.5 mm

the_dude78
08-21-2013, 01:15 AM
Doubt it, if anything, probably more. Just like Minox typically causes a shed when PGE2 levels are elevated, dermarolling should have a similar effect. Although noone has said anything about shedding except me though its most likely due to me getting off of RU and going through a summer minoxidil shed. Joy.

Yes, makes sense, but if they saw beginning of new hair growth already around the 6th week, I'm thinking it would also make sense that the weaker follicles would become stronger and keep growing the hair rather than just shedding the hair. If we shed the hair first, like we do on minox, I'm guessing it would take longer than 6 weeks for the hair to grow out again - more like ten to twelve weeks.

But it could also be that the cycle of the follicles has been accelerated, so that the dormant phase just simply is much shorter, and in the study the hair did grow noticeably faster the first week after rolling...so who knows..

35YrsAfter
08-21-2013, 06:24 AM
Copper peptides are something else to consider...

They're naturally occurring small protein fragments that have high affinity to copper ions. In human plasma, the level of GHK-Cu is about 200 ng/ml at around age 20. As a person approaches 60, the level drops to 80 ng/ml. Studies conducted at different research facilities have established in humans, tripeptide GHK-Cu can promote activation of wound healing, attraction of immune cells, antioxidant and anti-inflammatory effects, stimulation of collagen and glycosaminoglycan synthesis in skin fibroblasts and promotion of blood vessels growth. Recent studies also indicate its ability to modulate expression of a great number of human genes, generally reversing gene expression to a healthier state. Synthetic GHK-Cu is used in cosmetics as a reparative and anti-aging ingredient.

35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office
www.forhair.com
Cole Hair Transplant
1045 Powers Place
Alpharetta, Georgia 30009
Phone 678-566-1011
email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
Please feel free to call or email me with any questions. Ask for Chuck

DanWS
08-21-2013, 06:40 AM
So what I did was, I got a picture of a girl I like, and stared at it while wounding with my other hand.

Sounds like a scene from a dark comedy. Or possibly a Stephen King.

Chromeo
08-21-2013, 09:17 AM
Sounds pretty funny if you ask me. At least that other hand was busy wounding and not doing something else... :o

StayThick
08-21-2013, 09:38 AM
UPDATE: I think this will help a lot of guys out, I found a way that it seems reduce the pain a lot, by at least half. So when we're rolling or wounding, we usually just focus on the procedure, so that immediately boosts the pain. I think it's kinda like when you're eating lunch and if you actually pay attention to the taste, you will savor your lunch, if you just talk and eat, well then you will not taste much. So what I did was, I got a picture of a girl I like, and stared at it while wounding with my other hand. I wear on my life that it made it super less painful, to the point to where it was almost not noticeable. Anyways, it doesn't have to be a girl, but I suppose that with sex on your mind should reduce the pain the most. Good luck everyone.

I don't know if I want to laugh or be concerned that we have a pedophile on our hands....

Dude that's one of the weirdest comments I have ever seen on an online forum. I don't even want to know what you do with your "photo's" in your spare time.

Sweet god that was creepy.

Borealis
08-21-2013, 09:54 AM
So is anyone seeing any results?

LevonHelms
08-21-2013, 09:57 AM
http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view7/2913313/mark-wahlberg-chest-beat-o.gif

greatjob!
08-21-2013, 12:09 PM
UPDATE: I think this will help a lot of guys out, I found a way that it seems reduce the pain a lot, by at least half. So when we're rolling or wounding, we usually just focus on the procedure, so that immediately boosts the pain. I think it's kinda like when you're eating lunch and if you actually pay attention to the taste, you will savor your lunch, if you just talk and eat, well then you will not taste much. So what I did was, I got a picture of a girl I like, and stared at it while wounding with my other hand. I wear on my life that it made it super less painful, to the point to where it was almost not noticeable. Anyways, it doesn't have to be a girl, but I suppose that with sex on your mind should reduce the pain the most. Good luck everyone.

http://i1000.photobucket.com/albums/af128/greatjob_/FAP_zpsb628ed6c.gif (http://s1000.photobucket.com/user/greatjob_/media/FAP_zpsb628ed6c.gif.html)
http://i1000.photobucket.com/albums/af128/greatjob_/bell_ringer_masturbator_zpsae0b127c.gif (http://s1000.photobucket.com/user/greatjob_/media/bell_ringer_masturbator_zpsae0b127c.gif.html)
http://i1000.photobucket.com/albums/af128/greatjob_/not-that-i-condone-fascism-or-any-ism-for-that_zpsa6b88e43.gif (http://s1000.photobucket.com/user/greatjob_/media/not-that-i-condone-fascism-or-any-ism-for-that_zpsa6b88e43.gif.html)
http://i1000.photobucket.com/albums/af128/greatjob_/8lsg2_zps58db3b8e.gif (http://s1000.photobucket.com/user/greatjob_/media/8lsg2_zps58db3b8e.gif.html)


http://i1000.photobucket.com/albums/af128/greatjob_/7ozTU_zps9093fd0c.gif (http://s1000.photobucket.com/user/greatjob_/media/7ozTU_zps9093fd0c.gif.html)

ragsta
08-21-2013, 02:03 PM
I have noticed a 3 hairs starting to grow thick solid black. Although i cannot be sure if its just because i'm looking closer. I have hope. I do have a 0.5x1cm patch on the back of my head just below the balding area which i have derma rolled as well. If it grows here wow. I have done 3 sessions all over the top now with the last being the harshest looking similar to hellousers picture. Raising my eye brows the next day i could feel the scalp pain. 48 hrs later its gone though. I'm using a 1.5mm roller with 540 pins and minox once a day, not applied on day of rolling. Also i was lazy with minox for the last month and the hair doesn't seem to have gone any thinner.

The next few weeks will be very telling.

Tracy C
08-21-2013, 04:57 PM
Thanks for the reminder Tracy. I said this on another forum: how long before someone really injures himself or get an infection?

We must remain cautious. We should try to reproduce the study. Who knows? Maybe the study is flawed and it will do absolutely nothing. Just some healthy scepticism here.

This is very important. In science, if the results of a study are going to be "tested", the first thing to do is try to reproduce the results using the exact same methodology. If similar results are observed while using the exact same methodology, then it is time to experiment with the methodology to see if the results can be improved upon.

I am unable to reproduce the exact same methodology but I plan to match it as closely as possible - and drawing blood is not on the agenda.

lilpauly
08-21-2013, 05:01 PM
hi tracy look at this:

In this study, we demonstrate the feasibility to use microneedle arrays manufactured from commercially available 30G hypodermal needles to enhance the transport of compounds up to a molecular weight of 72 kDa.

Piercing of human dermatomed skin with microneedle arrays was studied by Trypan Blue staining on the SC side of the skin and transepidermal water loss measurements (TEWL). Passive transport studies were conducted with Cascade Blue (CB, Mw 538), Dextran–Cascade Blue (DCB, Mw 10 kDa), and FITC coupled Dextran (FITC-Dex, Mw 72 kDa). Microneedle arrays with needle lengths of 900, 700 and 550 μm are able to pierce dermatomed human skin as evident from (a) the appearance of blue spots on the dermal side of the skin after Trypan Blue treatment and (b) elevated TEWL levels after piercing compared to non-treated human dermatomed skin. Microneedles with a length of 300 μm did not pierce human skin in vitro. Transport studies performed with model compounds ranging from 538 Da to 72 kDa revealed that pretreatment with microneedle arrays enhanced the transport across dermatomed human skin. However, some degradation was also observed for FITC-Dex and DCB. We conclude that assembled microneedle arrays can be used to deliver compounds through the skin up to a molecular weight of at least 72 kDa.

Tracy C
08-21-2013, 05:16 PM
hi tracy look at this:

One pilot study at a time. I only have one head to work with. LOL

DesperateOne
08-21-2013, 08:57 PM
I don't know if I want to laugh or be concerned that we have a pedophile on our hands....

Dude that's one of the weirdest comments I have ever seen on an online forum. I don't even want to know what you do with your "photo's" in your spare time.

Sweet god that was creepy.

haha, I can see why this would be creepy, well I should rephrase that, it is a woman, not a girl. Anyways, I was just sitting on computer doing the rolling and I have a picture, I was just day dreaming about her. Anyways, the point was to do something else while doing the rolling to take the pain off your mind. Since most guys are already thinking about sex and girls 90% of the time, I figured this would be a no brainer, I guess I was wrong :D.

DesperateOne
08-21-2013, 09:01 PM
I have noticed a 3 hairs starting to grow thick solid black. Although i cannot be sure if its just because i'm looking closer. I have hope. I do have a 0.5x1cm patch on the back of my head just below the balding area which i have derma rolled as well. If it grows here wow. I have done 3 sessions all over the top now with the last being the harshest looking similar to hellousers picture. Raising my eye brows the next day i could feel the scalp pain. 48 hrs later its gone though. I'm using a 1.5mm roller with 540 pins and minox once a day, not applied on day of rolling. Also i was lazy with minox for the last month and the hair doesn't seem to have gone any thinner.

The next few weeks will be very telling.

So you're a diffuse thinner or a regular receding hairline? Are you rolling or pressing down on the roller until you feel the thing flushed. I don't know why, but I am unable to take out any blood from my scalp, I can hear the velcro sound but no blood. It does get really freaking red, but no blood. Good luck!!!

gainspotter
08-22-2013, 03:28 AM
I was wondering if I have the correct equipments to clean the wounding. I have some saline spray I use to clean the scalp pre roll, then some sanitising wipes for after and some savlon antiseptic cream.
Anyone think this is a good method? Its hard to get betadine now, and I am struggling to even get rubbing alcohol.

ragsta
08-22-2013, 10:52 AM
A few pics of a scar which has been hair free for years. No previous pics sorry. Can see tiny black dots. First pics i've taken 3 weeks in. I don't know about all the short black hairs as i don't trim my hair that short and if there that thick they should grow as fast as the rest ? Or i just cut really badly :s


http://www.photobox.co.uk/my/photo/full?photo_id=2285238486
http://www.photobox.co.uk/my/photo/full?photo_id=2285238875

http://www.photobox.co.uk/my/photo/full?photo_id=2285238486
http://www.photobox.co.uk/my/photo/full?photo_id=2285238875

cant get the pics to show. use control and scroll to zoom in out

hellouser
08-22-2013, 10:57 AM
Photo's aren't loading. Try signing up for photobucket.com or using a temporary service like Tinypic.com

ragsta
08-22-2013, 11:21 AM
ok hopefully now it works.. not sure if u can see bigger images or just me.

http://i1330.photobucket.com/albums/w570/ragsta319/pic1_zps8f2062f5.jpg (http://s1330.photobucket.com/user/ragsta319/media/pic1_zps8f2062f5.jpg.html)

http://i1330.photobucket.com/albums/w570/ragsta319/pic2_zpseba11c1c.jpg (http://s1330.photobucket.com/user/ragsta319/media/pic2_zpseba11c1c.jpg.html)

http://i1330.photobucket.com/albums/w570/ragsta319/pic1_zps8f2062f5.jpg
http://i1330.photobucket.com/albums/w570/ragsta319/pic2_zpseba11c1c.jpg

clandestine
08-22-2013, 11:28 AM
Does anyone know if this works for scarring on the head, like ragsta has?

Will this regrow hair in scarred areas? I have something similar. If anyone could comment eith any insights that'd be great.

clandestine
08-22-2013, 11:28 AM
ragsta what mm roller are you using?

clandestine
08-22-2013, 11:34 AM
35 years,

Since you work in a HT clinic, would you be able to inquire as to any risks of long term damage by eitiher normal microneedling or excessive microneedling. Is there a chance that we could be scarring, or if not scarring our skin, making it thicker such that it would harm results of a future transplant in the recepient area?

35YearsAfter;

ragsta
08-22-2013, 11:42 AM
ragsta what mm roller are you using?

im using this one

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/170893033240?var=470190385638&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

1.5mm titanium 540 pin

clandestine
08-22-2013, 12:27 PM
"I have had two dermaroller treatments and the second one effectively ruined my life.";

http://www.acne.org/messageboard/topic/316794-a-warning-about-dermarollers/

clandestine
08-22-2013, 12:47 PM
Looking over this thread it seems valid concerns are

1. Pushing too hard and
2. Bacterial issues surrounding improper sterilization and storing or rollers

How are you all sterilizing, and storing your dermarollers?

clandestine
08-22-2013, 12:55 PM
Looking over this thread it seems valid concerns are

1. Pushing too hard and
2. Bacterial issues surrounding improper sterilization and storing or rollers

How are you all sterilizing, and storing your dermarollers?

john2399
08-22-2013, 12:59 PM
Looking over this thread it seems valid concerns are

1. Pushing too hard and
2. Bacterial issues surrounding improper sterilization and storing or rollers

How are you all sterilizing, and storing your dermarollers?

Im just using Isopropyl Rubbing Alcohol..hopefully thats enough.

hellouser
08-22-2013, 12:59 PM
Looking over this thread it seems valid concerns are

1. Pushing too hard and
2. Bacterial issues surrounding improper sterilization and storing or rollers

How are you all sterilizing, and storing your dermarollers?

1. Pressing too hard shouldnt matter in regards to side effects. We know that clinics as demonstrated in some of the youtube videos draw a LOT of blood.
2. Betadine, Isopropanol, Isopropyl should all be used to clean the roller. Some are boiling it hot water followed by the high concentration alcohols.

I store mine in a plastic enclose it came with and then inside the plastic tube container.

baldnotbeautiful
08-22-2013, 01:18 PM
to clean it i pour betadine into a shot glass and let the roller sit in it for a few mins, I would think that would clean it pretty well...

Borealis
08-22-2013, 01:49 PM
to clean it i pour betadine into a shot glass and let the roller sit in it for a few mins, I would think that would clean it pretty well...

I do this, but with TCP (it's an antiseptic), would've thought that's enough. Plus I do it just after I've had a shower so my scalp is clean.

35YrsAfter
08-22-2013, 02:00 PM
35YearsAfter;

I will ask Dr. Cole when he returns. I doesn't hurt to see what the naysayers have to report. In the case of micro needling, I see a risk of infection but that's about it:

Risk of Infection
(http://www.truthinaging.com/review/beware-of-micro-needling)

Can you damage your skin? (http://www.futurederm.com/2012/06/04/can-you-damage-your-skin-with-microneedling/)

I'm not a doctor and my opinions here are not to be interpreted as medical advice.
35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office

ragsta
08-22-2013, 02:14 PM
no ones tried doxycycline to increase fgf9 ? seems to have already been bought up in the forum though

http://www.nature.com/nm/journal/v19/n7/fig_tab/nm.3181_F1.html

"To test whether increased expression of Fgf9 in the wound promotes WIHN, we overexpressed Fgf9 in the epidermis of FVB-Tg(KRT14-rtTA)F42Efu/J; TRE-Fgf9-IRES-EGFP (K14rtTA; Fgf9) transgenic mice. Administration of doxycycline to these mice induces expression of Fgf9 targeted to the epidermis by the promoter for the gene encoding keratin-14. Fgf9 expression increased 150-fold in these mice after doxycycline administration (Fig. 1d), and this led to a marked increase in the number of neogenic hair follicles compared to controls (Fig. 1e,f). These combined results indicate that modulation of Fgf9 expression in the wound affects WIHN."

clandestine
08-22-2013, 02:14 PM
Thank you 35years. Maybe you can help me with one more query?


Does anyone know if this works for scarring on the head, like ragsta has?

Will this regrow hair in scarred areas? I have something similar. If anyone could comment eith any insights that'd be great.

Everyone;

rm056789
08-22-2013, 05:51 PM
Rationale is based on excerpt from from highly publicized and heavily discussed study: 1α,25-dihydroxyvitamin D3 modulates the hair-inductive capacity of dermal papilla cells: therapeutic potential for hair regeneration.

"upregulation of Wnt10b, ALPL, and TGF-β2 was mediated through the genomic VDR pathway. In a rat model of de novo hair regeneration by murine DPC transplantation, pretreatment with VD(3) significantly enhanced hair folliculogenesis. Specifically, a greater number of outgrowing hair shafts and higher maturation of regenerated follicles were observed"

-Therefore as derma rolling is supposed to stimulate hair follicle neogenesis through WNT/FGF9 pathways and according to above, VD3 enhances follulogenesus (maturation) perhaps more rapid and profound results could be observed by treating scalp with VD3 prior to rolling.

Any thoughts?

hellouser
08-22-2013, 06:13 PM
Rationale is based on excerpt from from highly publicized and heavily discussed study: 1α,25-dihydroxyvitamin D3 modulates the hair-inductive capacity of dermal papilla cells: therapeutic potential for hair regeneration.

"upregulation of Wnt10b, ALPL, and TGF-β2 was mediated through the genomic VDR pathway. In a rat model of de novo hair regeneration by murine DPC transplantation, pretreatment with VD(3) significantly enhanced hair folliculogenesis. Specifically, a greater number of outgrowing hair shafts and higher maturation of regenerated follicles were observed"

-Therefore as derma rolling is supposed to stimulate hair follicle neogenesis through WNT/FGF9 pathways and according to above, VD3 enhances follulogenesus (maturation) perhaps more rapid and profound results could be observed by treating scalp with VD3 prior to rolling.

Any thoughts?

Only one way to find out...

Tracy C
08-22-2013, 07:41 PM
Does anyone know if this works for scarring on the head, like ragsta has?

Will this regrow hair in scarred areas? I have something similar. If anyone could comment with any insights that'd be great.

The only way to find out is to try it. Keep in mind that these guys do not yet know if dermarolling is going to help them. I hope it does. I hope it helps improve my hair too. The only way I am going to find out is to try - and if it does, you bet my sister and cousins are going hear about it. We will take all the help we can get. Haha

hellouser
08-22-2013, 07:45 PM
The only way to find out is to try it. Keep in mind that these guys do not yet know if dermarolling is going to help them. I hope it does. I hope it helps improve my hair too. The only way I am going to find out is to try - and if it does, you bet my sister and cousins are going hear about it. We will take all the help we can get. Haha

Tracy,

What would you give to restore all or near all the hair you lost?

DesperateOne
08-22-2013, 08:15 PM
Tracy,

What would you give to restore all or near all the hair you lost?

So Hellouser, since you're like the guy with the most time spend on forums, what seems to be the future so far? I went to kane shop and they're not even selling the CB there, or is it a secret link?

I am tired of waiting, my hair is shedding like crazy these last two months, I don't know if it is minox or what. Does minox usually thin out hair as well? Or does it just fall and go into the resting phase while it recovers.

hellouser
08-22-2013, 08:30 PM
So Hellouser, since you're like the guy with the most time spend on forums, what seems to be the future so far? I went to kane shop and they're not even selling the CB there, or is it a secret link?

I am tired of waiting, my hair is shedding like crazy these last two months, I don't know if it is minox or what. Does minox usually thin out hair as well? Or does it just fall and go into the resting phase while it recovers.

This is CB:

http://www.thekaneshop.com/index.php/new-products/cortexolone-17alpha-propionate-1gram-form-iii.html

Future so far to me is this:

1) People don't give a shit about finding a cure
2) Bald Truth Talk members prefer to fight over small potatoes like Gho rather than tackling greater solutions
3) Follica is in Phase II trials. Hopefully they can release something in 2-3 years without FDA screwing them over or funding being an issue.
4) Histogen needs Phase IIb trials finished before they can move onto a release in asia, that won't happen until 2015 at the earliest.
5) Replicel is planning an asian release in 2015. Its possible but like all other things as history repeats itself, probably won't happen and also in part from the fact that nobody REALLY cares to see that happen.
6) Dr. Lauster needs to seriously be whipped into shape and told to hurry up as he's got a working cure. I sure as hell hope he's gone through Phase I clinical trials AT LEAST in the three years that have passed since he announced he created artificial hair.
7) Pilofocus, unless it has regeneration its nothing to be really excited about unless donor hair can be harvest from legs, chest, etc without Dr. Umar's fvcking retarded price of 8 dollars per graft (THE FVCK?!)
8) Dr. Nigam... well, this guy has had a full year to show us an NW6 go down to NW2 with his hair doubling technique but has shown JACK SHIT since. Until he shows CREDIBLE EVIDENCE with someone verifying his methods actually working, he's out of the picture.
9) Aderans... a company that is the epitome of incompetence. 10+ years to get to Phase 2 trials only to have funding pulled from them without an immediate backup plan to continue the research? Morons, the whole lot of them.

And lastly....

Community driven experiments. I really believe everything in our power should be done to try and emulate Follica's procedure so we can cure OURSELVES. Because despite hair loss sufferers being so fvcking delusional, NOBODY is going to help us except those with enough initiative to do something about it themselves. Which really illustrates how god damn lazy people are to even SUPPORT a crowdfunding initiative. Have fun balding.

DesperateOne
08-22-2013, 08:30 PM
Rationale is based on excerpt from from highly publicized and heavily discussed study: 1α,25-dihydroxyvitamin D3 modulates the hair-inductive capacity of dermal papilla cells: therapeutic potential for hair regeneration.

"upregulation of Wnt10b, ALPL, and TGF-β2 was mediated through the genomic VDR pathway. In a rat model of de novo hair regeneration by murine DPC transplantation, pretreatment with VD(3) significantly enhanced hair folliculogenesis. Specifically, a greater number of outgrowing hair shafts and higher maturation of regenerated follicles were observed"

-Therefore as derma rolling is supposed to stimulate hair follicle neogenesis through WNT/FGF9 pathways and according to above, VD3 enhances follulogenesus (maturation) perhaps more rapid and profound results could be observed by treating scalp with VD3 prior to rolling.

Any thoughts?

So what does this thing mean? Where do we purchase thet VD3, I am not sure what to make of this.

DesperateOne
08-22-2013, 08:31 PM
The only way to find out is to try it. Keep in mind that these guys do not yet know if dermarolling is going to help them. I hope it does. I hope it helps improve my hair too. The only way I am going to find out is to try - and if it does, you bet my sister and cousins are going hear about it. We will take all the help we can get. Haha

Tracy, please give us the cure already, I am tired of all this. I know you have a hidden gem on your house that you're keeping for yourself.

DesperateOne
08-22-2013, 08:41 PM
This is CB:

http://www.thekaneshop.com/index.php/new-products/cortexolone-17alpha-propionate-1gram-form-iii.html

Future so far to me is this:

1) People don't give a shit about finding a cure
2) Bald Truth Talk members prefer to fight over small potatoes like Gho rather than tackling greater solutions
3) Follica is in Phase II trials. Hopefully they can release something in 2-3 years without FDA screwing them over or funding being an issue.
4) Histogen needs Phase IIb trials finished before they can move onto a release in asia, that won't happen until 2015 at the earliest.
5) Replicel is planning an asian release in 2015. Its possible but like all other things as history repeats itself, probably won't happen and also in part from the fact that nobody REALLY cares to see that happen.
6) Dr. Lauster needs to seriously be whipped into shape and told to hurry up as he's got a working cure. I sure as hell hope he's gone through Phase I clinical trials AT LEAST in the three years that have passed since he announced he created artificial hair.
7) Pilofocus, unless it has regeneration its nothing to be really excited about unless donor hair can be harvest from legs, chest, etc without Dr. Umar's fvcking retarded price of 8 dollars per graft (THE FVCK?!)
8) Dr. Nigam... well, this guy has had a full year to show us an NW6 go down to NW2 with his hair doubling technique but has shown JACK SHIT since. Until he shows CREDIBLE EVIDENCE with someone verifying his methods actually working, he's out of the picture.
9) Aderans... a company that is the epitome of incompetence. 10+ years to get to Phase 2 trials only to have funding pulled from them without an immediate backup plan to continue the research? Morons, the whole lot of them.

And lastly....

Community driven experiments. I really believe everything in our power should be done to try and emulate Follica's procedure so we can cure OURSELVES. Because despite hair loss sufferers being so fvcking delusional, NOBODY is going to help us except those with enough initiative to do something about it themselves. Which really illustrates how god damn lazy people are to even SUPPORT a crowdfunding initiative. Have fun balding.

Oh well, that sounds like no fun. Why did we get stuck with all the morons in the science field, we needed some of those prodigy mathematicians to join and we would of had the cure long ago.

So basically nothing is coming down the pipes for the next 3 years at least. All we have is this God damn experiments that send us all on wild goose chases :( . Well, it's either this or just throw the freaking towel. But you're right, our only hope is to try and get Follica's method.

Tracy C
08-22-2013, 08:42 PM
Tracy,

What would you give to restore all or near all the hair you lost?

LOL I was unemployed for 18 months after the company I worked for closed it's doors. I just got back on my feet and have nothing left to give.




Tracy, please give us the cure already, I am tired of all this. I know you have a hidden gem on your house that you're keeping for yourself.

Hahahaha If I had the cure I would share it.

hellouser
08-22-2013, 08:59 PM
LOL I was unemployed for 18 months after the company I worked for closed it's doors. I just got back on my feet and have nothing left to give.

:/

Well that... sucks. But I can relate; I lost my job THREE times due to the recession. Thankfully I bounced back each time.. as for myself, I'd give *everything* in my bank account for someone to cure me. Problem is, since hair loss is typically progressive, I'd need at least two visits; one to patch me up now and another to patch me up later on after I've lost more hair.

I'm so disgusted with the state that the research and timelines are at right now. It pisses me off even more when I think about GREYING HAIR being cured before hair loss.

If axel gets back to me and decides to go full steam ahead with the crowdfunding initiative (I need some help with it) I'm launching a full scale campaign just like 'who killed the electric' but for hair loss like 'who stalled the hair loss cure'. Names will be named.

Tracy C
08-22-2013, 09:21 PM
Problem is, since hair loss is typically progressive, I'd need at least two visits; one to patch me up now and another to patch me up later on after I've lost more hair.

It took two hair transplant surgeries and many years on medications to make me look like a normal girl again. One HT to fill in the bald spots that simply refused to regrow hair and a second HT to build up density... Yes I look normal now. I don't have bald spots anymore. I just look like a lady with thin hair. A little bit of Dermmatch makes it look thicker than it really is - but Dermmatch, though it does do an amazing job of concealing thinning, does nothing for volume. So I wear a small topper hair extension when I want to look extra nice.

Do I want a cure? You bet. Do I think it will take as long as most of these guys think? No I don't. I think it will be sooner than everyone thinks - but that still won't be soon enough for most of these guys - cause it isn't yesterday's news.

LevonHelms
08-22-2013, 09:50 PM
Guys, I think we're onto something with the dermarolling. If the trial doesn't produce excellent results, I'm almost certain some derivative or combination involving wounding will. I'm seeing some vellus hairs creep out and a few terminals around my hairline (fingers crossed).


So what does this thing mean? Where do we purchase thet VD3, I am not sure what to make of this.

There's an excellent explanation of VD3 and supplementing here;
http://crossfitwilmington.com/vitamin-d/

hellouser
08-22-2013, 10:03 PM
It took two hair transplant surgeries and many years on medications to make me look like a normal girl again. One HT to fill in the bald spots that simply refused to regrow hair and a second HT to build up density... Yes I look normal now. I don't have bald spots anymore. I just look like a lady with thin hair. A little bit of Dermmatch makes it look thicker than it really is - but Dermmatch, though it does do an amazing job of concealing thinning, does nothing for volume. So I wear a small topper hair extension when I want to look extra nice.

Do I want a cure? You bet. Do I think it will take as long as most of these guys think? No I don't. I think it will be sooner than everyone thinks - but that still won't be soon enough for most of these guys - cause it isn't yesterday's news.

Not sure if you've seen my pics but I'm about an NW3. For over the last month or two I've been shedding like CRAZY. Hands are littered with strands of hair after I shower. My hair is falling out consistently at work, so much so that by the end of the day I could make a small pile of hair. I'm almost DEAD CERTAIN its due to me hopping off RU back in May. Thank christ I have my CB to regain all I've lost and hopefully then some along with the potential added benefits of dermarolling.

I'd go for an HT myself... I have the cash, its not an issue.. its more so the progression of my hair loss that might be along with the fact that donor regeneration isn't much of a reality unless I go with Dr. Gho... but I don't want to pay $15,000 for only 1,600-1,800 grafts.

I also believe that a solid treatment is on the horizon. If Follica can plow through their Phase II and III trials, it definitely is possible for a north american release within 3 years. What's nice about them is that its got Dr. Cotsarelis leading the team, so its almost unlikely Cotsarelis will allow the project to fold after spending 20 years in dermatology and 6+ years on Follica.

But... I think if enough information is shed on us, we can figure out the procedure on our own much sooner. I really believe that, theres nothing 'special' about their method, we don't need lab equipment or stem cell culturing. I think this dermarolling trial will give us a good foundation to work on and then see how and where can move on from there.

HARIRI
08-23-2013, 12:58 AM
Not sure if you've seen my pics but I'm about an NW3. For over the last month or two I've been shedding like CRAZY. Hands are littered with strands of hair after I shower. My hair is falling out consistently at work, so much so that by the end of the day I could make a small pile of hair. I'm almost DEAD CERTAIN its due to me hopping off RU back in May. Thank christ I have my CB to regain all I've lost and hopefully then some along with the potential added benefits of dermarolling.

I'd go for an HT myself... I have the cash, its not an issue.. its more so the progression of my hair loss that might be along with the fact that donor regeneration isn't much of a reality unless I go with Dr. Gho... but I don't want to pay $15,000 for only 1,600-1,800 grafts.

I also believe that a solid treatment is on the horizon. If Follica can plow through their Phase II and III trials, it definitely is possible for a north american release within 3 years. What's nice about them is that its got Dr. Cotsarelis leading the team, so its almost unlikely Cotsarelis will allow the project to fold after spending 20 years in dermatology and 6+ years on Follica.

But... I think if enough information is shed on us, we can figure out the procedure on our own much sooner. I really believe that, theres nothing 'special' about their method, we don't need lab equipment or stem cell culturing. I think this dermarolling trial will give us a good foundation to work on and then see how and where can move on from there.

May I know the reason why you hopped off RU since it gave you good results. Why would you go for CB which is new and not yet proven? I think you should have stuck with the RU thing. You had great results with it on your thread (Hellouser's RU). I would really want to know the reason why you quit it? Any sides???

doke
08-23-2013, 03:07 AM
what about latisse supposed to be better than minoxidil but expensive if you use 1ml a day,then theres miconazole nitrate which you could use with minoxidil worth a try,as its cheap as chips check out videos on you tube on how to use micon i myself have mixed it with emu oil you can use the cream and then apply the greasy minox or foam.

doke
08-23-2013, 03:19 AM
i forgot to add i also use some spiro cream applied to scalp as well and buzzed my hair again so i can see any improvement im having 0 hair loss down drain as i use a hair catcher and wash hair every day also on avodart 0.5mg a day.

Chromeo
08-23-2013, 06:32 AM
:rolleyes:

Conpecia
08-23-2013, 06:43 AM
I think people should try what they want as long as enough of us are replicating the study with just wounding and minox. That way we can explore more avenues at the same time and compare results to the baseline treatment.

Conpecia
08-23-2013, 06:44 AM
Guys, I think we're onto something with the dermarolling. If the trial doesn't produce excellent results, I'm almost certain some derivative or combination involving wounding will. I'm seeing some vellus hairs creep out and a few terminals around my hairline (fingers crossed).



There's an excellent explanation of VD3 and supplementing here;
http://crossfitwilmington.com/vitamin-d/

Nice dude, are you applying minox after rolling or waiting 24 hours?

Artista
08-23-2013, 07:13 AM
Wow,,over 71,000 views on this thread.
You got my attention-lol.
Hopefully Joe from Staten will create a discussion about this topic on the next Live show.
OK Joe?!?

hellouser
08-23-2013, 07:35 AM
Wow,,over 71,000 views on this thread.
You got my attention-lol.
Hopefully Joe from Staten will create a discussion about this topic on the next Live show.
OK Joe?!?

Hey dude, can you give some input on my comment here:

http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showpost.php?p=142537&postcount=21

Thanks!

Artista
08-23-2013, 08:40 AM
Hi Hellouser ,
I have read that comment of yours yesterday.
Just to let you know, I have been consciously trying not to talk too much about it. That does NOT mean that I am not focused on Dr Wesley's upcoming technique. I am in FULL AGREEMENT with Spencer's objective assertions that you have mentioned too.

As you may know , I have promised Dr Wesley that there are some aspects and specifics that i cannot share here, like percentage numbers, specific applications, etc
I will say that I feel very POSITIVE Hellouser,,VERY positive (and excited), on what may be available to us all in the near future regarding your statement.
Dr Wesley had said that I can share my experiences of his upcoming phase testing that I will be a patient of.
He said that if I were to try Finasteride that would be OK..which i have been using now for 23 days (no sides)
I dont know that I would be able to try out this Dermarolling technique right now though.
I will talk with the Dr about it later.

hellouser
08-23-2013, 08:42 AM
Hi Hellouser ,
I have read that comment of yours yesterday.
Just to let you know, I have been consciously trying not to talk too much about it. That does NOT mean that I am not focused on Dr Wesley's upcoming technique. I am in FULL AGREEMENT with Spencer's objective assertions that you have mentioned too.

As you may know , I have promised Dr Wesley that there are some aspects and specifics that i cannot share here, like percentage numbers, specific applications, etc
I will say that I feel very POSITIVE Hellouser,,VERY positive (and excited), on what may be available to us all in the near future regarding your statement.
Dr Wesley had said that I can share my experiences of his upcoming phase testing that I will be a patient of.
He said that if I were to try Finasteride that would be OK..which i have been using now for 23 days (no sides)
I dont know that I would be able to try out this Dermarolling technique right now though.
I will talk with the Dr about it later.

Thank you!! :)

hellouser
08-23-2013, 09:01 AM
Hi Hellouser ,
I have read that comment of yours yesterday.
Just to let you know, I have been consciously trying not to talk too much about it. That does NOT mean that I am not focused on Dr Wesley's upcoming technique. I am in FULL AGREEMENT with Spencer's objective assertions that you have mentioned too.

As you may know , I have promised Dr Wesley that there are some aspects and specifics that i cannot share here, like percentage numbers, specific applications, etc
I will say that I feel very POSITIVE Hellouser,,VERY positive (and excited), on what may be available to us all in the near future regarding your statement.
Dr Wesley had said that I can share my experiences of his upcoming phase testing that I will be a patient of.
He said that if I were to try Finasteride that would be OK..which i have been using now for 23 days (no sides)
I dont know that I would be able to try out this Dermarolling technique right now though.
I will talk with the Dr about it later.

Also, one last question! I know its a bit off topic here, but since you're already noticing my inquiries:

Could Pilofocus be used for body hair? Legs, arms, etc? I've got an abundance of leg hair, more or less about 3-5 individual strands of hair all the way up to my thighs, I've done some math and it should be around 5,000 grafts (or more than 10,000 hairs in total). It'd be pretty awesome to use body hair as filler and have donor hair from the back of the head as the main hair.

Thanks again! :)

Artista
08-23-2013, 09:16 AM
I don't believe his new technique would make body hair or beard hair any more applicable than they are now. It's still all depends on The doctor and the patient. Dr. Yates has explained body and beard hair usage pretty well before. If the donor hair can be regrown/regenerated at a good percentage and the quality of said hair consistently remains normal, Then there possibly would not be a need for body/beard hair.. That is all speculation right now. The examples Of donor regeneration that Spencer and I have seen During that PowerPoint presentation Is still quite anecdotal But very promising!!

DesperateOne
08-23-2013, 11:32 AM
what about latisse supposed to be better than minoxidil but expensive if you use 1ml a day,then theres miconazole nitrate which you could use with minoxidil worth a try,as its cheap as chips check out videos on you tube on how to use micon i myself have mixed it with emu oil you can use the cream and then apply the greasy minox or foam.

So you're suggesting we add vaginal mesh into the mix? Where is the resource that suggest this might work? Also, the 2% is good from amazon?

http://www.amazon.com/Miconazole-Nitrate-%25-Antifungal-Cream/dp/B00164LKQ2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1377282575&sr=8-1&keywords=miconazole+nitrate

Well I did see some videos on youtube but I don't know where they got that idea from and most of them are just affiliate assholes trying to sell you something. So those videos can't really be trusted no matter what they say.

DesperateOne
08-23-2013, 11:40 AM
Maybe we can use this with Derma Rolling

TREATMENT FOR BALDNESS AND/OR THINNING HAIR

Supplies NEEDED:

Budget: $40

1) Miconazole Nitrate 2% (Monistat 7 or any generic version)
2) Eggs
3) Mayonnaise
4) Deep Conditioner of your choice (preferrably one with Water (aqua) as its first ingredient and does not contain mineral oil, Petrolatum/Petrolium
5) Cleansing conditioner (without sulfate or sulfur of any kind)
6) Cap, Do-rag, or pillowcase made of silk or satin.
7) Extra Virgin Olive Oil

Directions...

Daily:

A)Apply Deep Conditioner twice a day (first thing in the morning and then mid day) with one part deep conditioner and one part olive oil. (usually a palm full of both combined is enough - add more if necessary)

B)Every night before bed, wash hair ONLY USING Cleansing conditioner. When done, immediately massage ample amount of Miconazole Nitrate to balding or thinning areas and sleep with or on protective cap or garment (silk or satin cap).

Note that hair or scalp should be "slick" with Miconazole Nitrate after application. If not, apply more.

AFTER SEVEN DAYS, YOUR NEW GROWTH WILL NEED PROTEIN TO REMAIN STRONG!!!

This is where the eggs and mayo come in.

REPLACE the MID DAY MOISTURIZING with the following for this ONE DAY ONLY:

Mix one egg and one tablespoon of mayonnaise until well beaten and creamy. Generously apply to balding or thinning areas and leave on for one hour. Wash out with cleansing conditioner and cold water and while hair is still wet, apply generous amounts of deep conditioner and let dry. DO NOT TOWEL DRY.

Protein, while thickening, is EXTREMELY DRYING so your hair will need all the moisture it can get to survive.

Continue with daily routine. Note that this Egg and Mayo treament should ONLY be done after the first seven days of the routine, then once a month after.

A few extra tips:

Drink WATER WATER WATER... at LEAST 64oz per day and take a multivitamin (preferably one with fish oil and omega 3).
Also, You can stay out of the sun and protect your hair from heat as much as possible.


YOU WILL SEE RESULTS!

My results? 1/4 inch in ONE week on regular AND BALDING areas. That's 1 inch a month which is 12 inches a year. 2x faster than the average rate of hair growth.


On Balding areas, by the 9th day I had highly visible and strong new growth. I hope this helps someone and it is easy to follow!

brunobald
08-23-2013, 02:12 PM
Acell + wounding. Has this ever been tried with a dermaroller?

LevonHelms
08-23-2013, 02:42 PM
Nice dude, are you applying minox after rolling or waiting 24 hours?

I wait the 24 hrs. I've been following the trial pretty closely 1.5mm weekly with minoxidil every other day. The only major thing I do differently, is apply minox once daily at night. It is a copious amount though and I feel it's probably just as effective.

RisingFist
08-23-2013, 08:31 PM
http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0034152

Abstract
BACKGROUND:
Alopecia is the common hair loss problem that can affect many people. However, current therapies for treatment of alopecia are limited by low efficacy and potentially undesirable side effects. We have identified a new function for valproic acid (VPA), a GSK3beta inhibitor that activates the Wnt/beta-catenin pathway, to promote hair re-growth in vitro and in vivo.
METHODOLOGY/PRINCIPAL FINDINGS:
Topical application of VPA to male C3H mice critically stimulated hair re-growth and induced terminally differentiated epidermal markers such as filaggrin and loricrin, and the dermal papilla marker alkaline phosphatase (ALP). VPA induced ALP in human dermal papilla cells by up-regulating the Wnt/beta-catenin pathway, whereas minoxidil (MNX), a drug commonly used to treat alopecia, did not significantly affect the Wnt/beta-catenin pathway. VPA analogs and other GSK3beta inhibitors that activate the Wnt/beta-catenin pathway such as 4-phenyl butyric acid, LiCl, and BeCl(2) also exhibited hair growth-promoting activities in vivo. Importantly, VPA, but not MNX, successfully stimulate hair growth in the wounds of C3H mice.
CONCLUSIONS/SIGNIFICANCE:
Our findings indicate that small molecules that activate the Wnt/beta-catenin pathway, such as VPA, can potentially be developed as drugs to stimulate hair re-growth.
Epub 2012 Apr 10

http://pubmed.gov/22506014



full study and pictures:
http://www.plosone.org/article...Fjournal.pone.0034152

What do you guys think of valproic acid for wnt signaling? Or a safer alternative would be valerian root. I would use that internally at least for better sleep and it may help to signal growth factors when you're healing. Topically might be an idea as well.

Tracy C
08-23-2013, 09:47 PM
what about latisse supposed to be better than minoxidil but...

We do not actually know that yet. It is expected to be at least as good as Minoxidil - but we do not yet actually know if it is better.




...then theres miconazole nitrate which you could use with minoxidil worth a try,as its cheap as chips check out videos on you tube....

Are you for real?

Miconozole is in the same family of drugs as Ketoconazole and yes it can be helpful in treating hair loss - but not as helpful as Ketoconazole.

Don't believe everything to see on Youtube, especially when it comes to treating hair loss.

Tracy C
08-23-2013, 09:48 PM
i forgot to add i also use some spiro cream applied to scalp...

A male should not touch Spiro in any form.

Don't believe everything you see on Youtube.

brunobald
08-24-2013, 01:55 AM
Just thinking of typical donor regeneration in a HT patient. It is basicly deep wounding or an extreme case of derma rolling. Dr cole reports success rates of up to 70% and an average of around 50%. Imagine if 1 in 2 of the holes you make with your dermaroller sprouted hair! Truth is that is not happening so how can we replicated donor regen without actually touching our donor areas. Well a fue punch makes a much deeper and bigger diameter hole, some theorys state the wound needs to be self supporting and not close in on in itself. This forces the cells into a decision of wether to fill the void with hair or skin cells. The other ingredient missing used in donor regen is acell. Acell is made from pig? Stomach stem cells? Its widely used in the treatment of burns. Maybe something to research is hair growth in burns victims using acell for repairs.

In summery my idea is to use current donor regen methods to attempt to regen the mpb area. If this worked I would propose to modifiy a fue robot to perform the op up until the hair line. This would deskill the process and hopefully make it available to all.

DesperateOne
08-24-2013, 01:32 PM
Are you for real?

Miconozole is in the same family of drugs as Ketoconazole and yes it can be helpful in treating hair loss - but not as helpful as Ketoconazole.

Don't believe everything to see on Youtube, especially when it comes to treating hair loss.

God dammit, I already ordered Miconozone online because of all the hype on youtube. At least it was relatively cheap, but I guess Ketoconazole would of been better.

Tracy C
08-24-2013, 01:47 PM
I already ordered Miconozone online because of all the hype on youtube.

The vast majority of the "information" available on Youtube about hair loss is complete garbage. Just as the vast majority of the "information" available on this subject throughout the internet as a whole is garbage. I have yet to see anything from anyone other than a hair restoration doctor that had any real value at all.

DesperateOne
08-24-2013, 05:33 PM
The vast majority of the "information" available on Youtube about hair loss is complete garbage. Just as the vast majority of the "information" available on this subject throughout the internet as a whole is garbage. I have yet to see anything from anyone other than a hair restoration doctor that had any real value at all.

So when it arrives do you recommend that I should just dump it or should I try it out at least.

Tracy C
08-24-2013, 06:24 PM
Why would I suggest dumping it?

I suggest trying to validate the "information" you find. Most guys and gals in hair loss forums are not very good at that.

HARIRI
08-24-2013, 06:32 PM
A male should not touch Spiro in any form.

Don't believe everything you see on Youtube.

I agree on that, when I used to be a regular customer with Dr. Lee and used to order ******* 5%. He advised me to upgrade it to 15% and use it once a day for better efficiency. But when I asked him about adding Spiro to my regime, he told me straight away to stay away from it and that it is being recommended to female customers only. So what Tracy C mentioned about Spiro makes sense.

I believe CB 03 01 is the BEST thing to be added to the Minox daily Regime. They are selling it at the kane shop and could be mixed by many vehicles, the most common one ethanol/PG.

Tracy C
08-24-2013, 07:06 PM
I believe CB 03 01 is the BEST...

On what grounds do you base this belief? On more garbage you found on the internet? Yet another pilot study? Yet more worthless "testimonials" from young guys on the internet?

chimera
08-24-2013, 07:24 PM
On what grounds do you base this belief? On more garbage you found on the internet? Yet another pilot study? Yet more worthless "testimonials" from young guys on the internet?

Wow, you're a very arrogant person, yet, event though you tend to say you are always right, most of the time you open your mouth you are wrong. You're not different than all these kids, not at all.

Chromeo
08-24-2013, 07:50 PM
YouTube is notoriously bad for hairloss advice. It's basically full of bullsh*t.

StayThick
08-24-2013, 08:14 PM
Wow, you're a very arrogant person, yet, event though you tend to say you are always right, most of the time you open your mouth you are wrong. You're not different than all these kids, not at all.

I actually think she is right on this. We don't know the effect of CB yet, as it is unproven and people still can't figure out the proper vehicle. It's all wish washy at the moment.

CB could end up being all hype and no substance, especially without the correct vehicle, so Tracy is not 100% off base with her comment.

Fortunately, we have extremely helpful forum members on here that are currently trying various vehicles and testing it out. Only time will tell.

hellouser
08-24-2013, 09:03 PM
I actually think she is right on this. We don't know the effect of CB yet, as it is unproven and people still can't figure out the proper vehicle. It's all wish washy at the moment.

CB could end up being all hype and no substance, especially without the correct vehicle, so Tracy is not 100% off base with her comment.

Fortunately, we have extremely helpful forum members on here that are currently trying various vehicles and testing it out. Only time will tell.

A member on another forum got fantastic results on CB with a 50/50 ethanol/PG mix. And it wasn't bullshit evidence, as he mentioned that he got the same results using Finasteride (got off Fin, lost all gone, got on CB and regained everything that was lost). I won't name names or post pics as theyre part of the private forums.

So CB, at least from some sources, and at least in ethanol/PG vehicle, is definitely not 'wishy washy'

StayThick
08-24-2013, 09:09 PM
A member on another forum got fantastic results on CB with a 50/50 ethanol/PG mix. And it wasn't bullshit evidence, as he mentioned that he got the same results using Finasteride (got off Fin, lost all gone, got on CB and regained everything that was lost). I won't name names or post pics as theyre part of the private forums.

So CB, at least from some sources, and at least in ethanol/PG vehicle, is definitely not 'wishy washy'

Hellouser: We are on the same team bro. But evidence from some single random dude on another forum means absolutely SQUAT to me and doesn't prove ANYTHING. Was the individual utilizing other treatments at the same time? What evidence did he provide that proved CB was reason he regained his post FIN lost hair?

Only way for me to find out is to try it myself, which I plan on doing. There are too many variables for me to place confidence on an experimental treatment because you said "1 guy" on another forum stated results.

I know 5 people on this forum that got results from Neogenic, come on dude, seriously?...it's all wishy washy at this point. FACT. I hope it pans out though.

hellouser
08-24-2013, 09:21 PM
Hellouser: We are on the same team bro. But evidence from some single random dude on another forum means absolutely SQUAT to me and doesn't prove ANYTHING. Was the individual utilizing other treatments at the same time? What evidence did he provide that proved CB was reason he regained his post FIN lost hair?

Only way for me to find out is to try it myself, which I plan on doing. There are too many variables for me to place confidence on an experimental treatment because you said "1 guy" on another forum stated results.

I know 5 people on this forum that got results from Neogenic, come on dude, seriously?...it's all wishy washy at this point. FACT. I hope it pans out though.

You'd have to see the photos and log. The increase in density was incredible. But, you can either take my word for it or dismiss my input, I really don't care. Those of you throwing CB under the bus prematurely can go ahead and do so, its not going to affect my continued treatment with CB. While I've made great strides with RU, I lost them equally once getting off. When (less likely if though) I make progress with CB, you'll know when I update my log. But then, I'll probably be the first guy on BTT to do so, and with that said, you can use the same argument as you just did now against my case: I'm just one guy that got a result from CB, come on dude, seriously? Or will all of you take my case should it be successful as fact or 'one case isn't good enough' ? How many people will it take for you guys to jump on the CB train? Do realize that the longer you wait, the more hair youre going to lose as AGA is typically progressive. If youre going to wait for it to be released from Cosmo, you might as well become an advocate/activist for Replicel/Histogen as thats more or less *probably* going to be released around the same time. I hope not though, and I seriously hope both companies can prove us wrong because the wait times for a superior treatment to Finasteride are disgusting and EVERYONE is to blame; the biotech companies, the FDA, the researchers, the media, you, me and especially the hair loss community for being SO FVCKING COMPLACENT.

Tracy C
08-25-2013, 12:00 AM
Wow, you're a very arrogant person.

Actually I am - and for darn good reason. I know how to tell the difference between good information and garbage.

I do not claim to be always right all the time but I am not wrong everytime I open my mouth. If you think I am, your are simply choosing to believe garbage information. I know better than that. You obviously do not.

Tracy C
08-25-2013, 12:03 AM
A member on another forum got fantastic results on CB...

One case that is not formally documented by a credible observer is not good evidence. You want good evidence? Find many cases that are formally documented by credible observers. Anything less is garbage.

doke
08-25-2013, 03:14 AM
A male should not touch Spiro in any form.

Don't believe everything you see on Youtube.

Tracy im not sure if you are a beginner in this hair loss field but spironolactone as a topical for mpb does not cause systemic problems like oral finasteride so its safer than the latter.
Men should not use oral spiro due to feminising affects although there were some guys trying it on a low dose which i would not,one over 60 year old was using it for under medical conditions after 6 years regrew all his hair that had been bald for many years.
It was talked about on other forums that spiro topical was as good as topical flutamide which we know can enter the body and was safe to use also can be used on face for acne.
By the way tracy spiro was not seen by me on you tube i have used it on and off for many years and have returned to using it with miconazol nitrate and its going well i have ceased using minoxidil.

hiilikeyourbeard
08-25-2013, 03:51 AM
we all love hellouser. he's a very helpful member on many forums and knows his sh%t

wheresMYhairDUDE
08-25-2013, 05:39 AM
One case that is not formally documented by a credible observer is not good evidence. You want good evidence? Find many cases that are formally documented by credible observers. Anything less is garbage.
I completely agree with you but this is the problem - as I browse forums there are as many different treatment 'regimes' as there are hair loss sufferers. Unless everybody with a treatment 'regime' follows a set procedure of documenting what they are doing & using and the results we will never get a true picture of what helps, what doesn't and how good/bad the results are. :(

StayThick
08-25-2013, 07:02 AM
I completely agree with you but this is the problem - as I browse forums there are as many different treatment 'regimes' as there are hair loss sufferers. Unless everybody with a treatment 'regime' follows a set procedure of documenting what they are doing & using and the results we will never get a true picture of what helps, what doesn't and how good/bad the results are. :(

Exactly. This is the problem and what I was trying to explain to Hellouser.

He's on point though with the fact the longer I wait the more hair I lose. I'll try CB myself because I'd want to know if it could work for me, but I haven't heard or seen any documented case of CB producing results outside of what Hellouser just stated...which by the way I trust his opinion, but its tough to have confidence on one random case.

I'll let everyone know when I start CB and go from there because I don't know who exactly is trialing it right now outside of Hellouser and possibly LilPauly.

HARIRI
08-25-2013, 07:50 AM
Same here StayThick, I will also start CB once its available at Iron Dragon as a pre mixed ready form to be used right away. Its very hard to get alcohol in the Middle East. I will use CB and Minox together once a day before bedtime and swallow one capsule of Keratene Alphactive Retard along the way. Im so thankful that there is an intelligent member like Hellouser in this golden forum :-)

wheresMYhairDUDE
08-25-2013, 08:29 AM
Exactly. This is the problem and what I was trying to explain to Hellouser.

He's on point though with the fact the longer I wait the more hair I lose. I'll try CB myself because I'd want to know if it could work for me, but I haven't heard or seen any documented case of CB producing results outside of what Hellouser just stated...which by the way I trust his opinion, but its tough to have confidence on one random case.

I'll let everyone know when I start CB and go from there because I don't know who exactly is trialing it right now outside of Hellouser and possibly LilPauly.
Sounds like we need to;
1. Get a CB takers forum going.
2. Agree a formal documentation procedure (pics/CB dose & vehicle/results tracking)

If we can assemble a number of people who commit to following an agreed process it will put us in a better position where we're at least doing something semi-scientific and will be able to judge with some degree of certainty what variations of CB are/aren't working.

I'd be up for giving CB a go :)

doke
08-25-2013, 11:14 AM
you guys here crack me up as nothing has proved to regrow any hair best check with spencer or joe of staton island but these products are experimental with no proof of any human trials for safety i myself have been duped into trying ru and that a&g complex a few years back and lost money doing it.
I saying this now as many newbee looking at this forum will get confused as i am as well i say to these young guys use proved products that have been through trials and are relative safe to use.
I myself am using cheap as chips products with the proved drugs.

doke
08-25-2013, 11:30 AM
by the way anyone still on trx2 which is another con trick and if anyone wants to know my regrime its miconazol nitrate which i have some already mixed with emu oil and i have started putting neat 2% micon on scalp before i apply minoxidil that has prop glycol in and is really cheap to buy.
Already had a hairmax laser 9 lux which i got cheap off ebay but i think i need a more powerful laser like omg site states for hair loss.
I also make my own benonite clay with av mix and some tea tree oil which i have been a bit lazy to use lately.
Have i had any regrowth well i have buzzed my hair again to see if this new regrime can do anything and i now have zero hair loss in drain and i forgot im on dutasteride 0.5mg a day as propecia did nothing for me,and also biotin and silica.
I got all this stuff cheaper than buying ru from kane or mpb treatments and hope i can get success.
I have at my age come to learn not to get excited with these companies saying they have a product in the pipeline and then it comes to nothing giving false hope to us.

hellouser
08-25-2013, 11:37 AM
by the way anyone still on trx2 which is another con trick and if anyone wants to know my regrime its miconazol nitrate which i have some already mixed with emu oil and i have started putting neat 2% micon on scalp before i apply minoxidil that has prop glycol in and is really cheap to buy.
Already had a hairmax laser 9 lux which i got cheap off ebay but i think i need a more powerful laser like omg site states for hair loss.
I also make my own benonite clay with av mix and some tea tree oil which i have been a bit lazy to use lately.
Have i had any regrowth well i have buzzed my hair again to see if this new regrime can do anything and i now have zero hair loss in drain and i forgot im on dutasteride 0.5mg a day as propecia did nothing for me,and also biotin and silica.
I got all this stuff cheaper than buying ru from kane or mpb treatments and hope i can get success.
I have at my age come to learn not to get excited with these companies saying they have a product in the pipeline and then it comes to nothing giving false hope to us.

This is not the thread for such comments.

fred970
08-25-2013, 12:25 PM
I just rolled for the first time yesterday with a 1,5 mm roller. I follow the study as closely as possible, I tried to cause a mild whatever I don't remember the word and some blood appeared there and there. I'm using 5% minoxidil 6 days a week.

I'm NW5, so if there is a change in 3 months, I think it will be easy to spot.

clandestine
08-25-2013, 01:26 PM
This is not the thread for such comments.

Agreed. And this is not the subforum to push proven treatments.

clandestine
08-25-2013, 01:27 PM
I just rolled for the first time yesterday with a 1,5 mm roller. I follow the study as closely as possible, I tried to cause a mild whatever I don't remember the word and some blood appeared there and there. I'm using 5% minoxidil 6 days a week.

I'm NW5, so if there is a change in 3 months, I think it will be easy to spot.

Take baseline photos dude.

thinningTooSoon
08-25-2013, 02:43 PM
Hi,

I am really keen to start this trial myself. Given the study you quote on this page, would you recommend trying the Theradome Laser Helmet alongside the derma rolling?

http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showpost.php?p=141289&postcount=592

http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/theradome-laser-helmet

cotto
08-25-2013, 02:47 PM
hi, im new in the forum but i´ve been reading for a while. I´m interested in the treatment and im taking tons of pics of my buzzed head, so if there is any regrow will be easy to know because i will take pics just after buzz my hair.
I got a question, my scalp gets pretty "descamed" due to minoxidil and will like to try minox just 24 after the dermarroling, its supossed that the minox is to induce wnt factors right so i will only use minox 2 times or three after dermarroling. It will be right?
I want to use foligain foam because the foam is advertised to be mild in the scalp, but i have heard that folligain foam contains lacetic acid and i dont know if will contrarrest the wnt procedure.
Sorry about my little english, greetings from spain.

UK Boy
08-25-2013, 03:08 PM
by the way anyone still on trx2 which is another con trick and if anyone wants to know my regrime its miconazol nitrate which i have some already mixed with emu oil and i have started putting neat 2% micon on scalp before i apply minoxidil that has prop glycol in and is really cheap to buy.
Already had a hairmax laser 9 lux which i got cheap off ebay but i think i need a more powerful laser like omg site states for hair loss.
I also make my own benonite clay with av mix and some tea tree oil which i have been a bit lazy to use lately.
Have i had any regrowth well i have buzzed my hair again to see if this new regrime can do anything and i now have zero hair loss in drain and i forgot im on dutasteride 0.5mg a day as propecia did nothing for me,and also biotin and silica.
I got all this stuff cheaper than buying ru from kane or mpb treatments and hope i can get success.
I have at my age come to learn not to get excited with these companies saying they have a product in the pipeline and then it comes to nothing giving false hope to us.

Ummm, ok, so you shaved your head to see if your regime was working and since you shaved your head you now have zero hair loss in the drain. I'm not saying your regime isn't working - I mean you're on Dut so I'm sure it's doing something but do you not think that one of the biggest reasons that you're seeing "zero" hair loss in the drain now is cos the buzzed hairs are so short that they're going straight down without getting caught the drain? I always have to question guys who talk about "zero" hair loss - even kids and women shed some hairs each day - it's part of the natural hair growth cycle.

534623
08-25-2013, 03:25 PM
I completely agree with you but this is the problem - as I browse forums there are as many different treatment 'regimes' as there are hair loss sufferers. Unless everybody with a treatment 'regime' follows a set procedure of documenting what they are doing & using and the results we will never get a true picture of what helps, what doesn't and how good/bad the results are. :(

Hopefully you could still read my answer/post - before it got deleted.

Anyway, now you should know definitely what I was talking about - you know, "TALK" and "blah blah" ...:rolleyes:

Jazz1
08-25-2013, 03:27 PM
Same here StayThick, I will also start CB once its available at Iron Dragon as a pre mixed ready form to be used right away. Its very hard to get alcohol in the Middle East. I will use CB and Minox together once a day before bedtime and swallow one capsule of Keratene Alphactive Retard along the way. Im so thankful that there is an intelligent member like Hellouser in this golden forum :-)

When you think iron dragon will have it?

HARIRI
08-25-2013, 04:16 PM
When you think iron dragon will have it?

In their homepage, they mentioned this:-

~PRE SALE~

Cortexolone 17 alpha propionate

ETA: approximately 1 week

See description under: "Selective Anti-Androgen

Conpecia
08-25-2013, 07:39 PM
Did my second round of rolling and it was quite a bit more painful than the first. Not sure why. Bastards at amazon botched my minox supply so tomorrow I might have to go buy it at a store. Hate doing that.

Made sure there was redness and some bleeding this time. Anyone noticing anything who's been it for 3-4 weeks?

JJacobs152
08-25-2013, 10:56 PM
Nobody posting results with the following combo:

roller + minox + nizoral + fin? :confused:

I'd like to be a part of this group, but having a study where n = 1 doesn't really mean much.

deuce
08-25-2013, 11:19 PM
So everyone is/was super excited about this. Anyone seeing any results?

horte
08-26-2013, 05:33 AM
Has anyone shed off dermarolling or is that just me... Plus I had to use min on days I roll because if I skip a day I lose to many damn hairs.

Baby John
08-26-2013, 06:46 AM
Horte,

You wait 24 hours to apply minox to reduce the risk of increased systemic absorbtion.

HARIRI
08-26-2013, 07:07 AM
Has anyone shed off dermarolling or is that just me... Plus I had to use min on days I roll because if I skip a day I lose to many damn hairs.

I tried the 1.5mm and the other day I threw it in the trash bin. I cant handle it at all. Its torturing me and felt stupid, I decided to stick with the 0.5mm scalp roller, at least it will help absorption, also Nanogen company found in their trial that 0.5mm roller does have more benefits:-

The Scalproller has 4 innovative modes of action to enhance any hair treatment regimen:

1. Increases Topical Treatment Absorption

Scalproller pre-treatment has been shown to increase absorption of topical treatments by 5 times or more. With Scalproller pre-treatment, lower 2% concentrations of a topical treatment solution will give concentrations in the scalp higher than when using 5% solutions on untreated skin. Similarly, 5% solutions will produce higher concentrations in the scalp than 12.5% solutions or suspensions used on untreated skin. Frontal scalp areas are notoriously difficult to treat topically, most probably due to lack of absorption. Therefore topical treatments are only really effective in treating vertex hair loss. Using Nanogen's Scalproller can dramatically increase absorption of topical treatments in these regions, opening up new potential areas for topical treatments to act on.

2. Heals Donor Scars

Hair transplant surgery commonly leaves scars in the donor region; Nanogen's Scalproller has been proven to fade and reduce the appearance of these scars by breaking up scar tissue structures and formations. Plus there is evidence in animal models to show that new hair may grow to conceal the donor area after Scalproller treatment.

3. Activates PRP Treatment

Platelet Rich Plasma or PRP therapy is a cutting edge development in hair loss treatment. PRP has been shown to produce thicker transplanted hair growth, and possibly even thicken non-transplanted hair. In PRP therapy, the platelet and growth factor rich fraction of the patient's blood is re-injected into them, and then growth is activated by repeated needle insertion. Single needle insertion is irregular, time consuming and often painful. Scalproller treatment produces much more reliable, regular needle insertions in less time, and with less pain.

4. Encourages New Hair Growth

The latest research by Intercytex, performed with Dr. Bessam Farjo as principal investigator, has shown that patients receiving superficial injections and controlled wounding grow new hair, which may solely be a result of the controlled skin wounding itself. This surprising result is correlated by the pioneering work published by Dr. George Cotsarelis of Pennsylvania University, who found that stimulation of the Wnt protein by wounding leads to hair regeneration. Wounding by microneedles would potentially start this Wnt protein mediated growth stimulation, and prevent synthesis of TGF-β2, a protein known to induce hair loss.

Scalproller treatment increases topical treatment penetration and may independently promote new hair growth.

Baby John
08-26-2013, 07:34 AM
Also note:

Wounding that produces the signaling that may cause hair growth may also increase the incidence of basal cell carcinoma. See the study Hellouser posted earlier in this thread.

horte
08-26-2013, 09:20 AM
Wouldn't increased systemic absorption be good tho for Mindoxil?

hellouser
08-26-2013, 09:42 AM
Wouldn't increased systemic absorption be good tho for Mindoxil?

Not systemic, unless you want heart problems.

Baby John
08-26-2013, 09:43 AM
horte,

Minox is a medication used to treat hypertension. It's taken orally in this case to provide a systemic effect and there are risks that accompany this particular use for each individual.

When used topically for the purpose of hair regrowth/retention, efficacy should be enhanced when it stays where desired, which is at the follicle, and the risks that go along with systemic use should be reduced or possibly eliminated.

Hicks
08-26-2013, 09:55 AM
Something interesting: I foam roll before my workouts at the gym so why not Ball Roll your head? In a nut shell foam rolling is used to break up tissue and increase blood circulation. If you ask 10 different people you will get 7 different answers. Anyway. I ball rolled my head (if you do it right it hurt like a mother), jumped in the shower, then dermarolled 1.5mm. I can say without a doubt I bleed like a gut deer. I know the purpose is to wound NOT bleed out. Point being it seem ball rolling does increase blood circulation or blood to the area. Blood is key for repairing any wound. Just something to think about.

Baby John
08-26-2013, 10:29 AM
Bear with me because I haven't posted in years...

Interestingly, my last post involved the use of Acell, which has been mentioned in this thread.
I was very excited when I saw the thread title but after plowing thru 90 pages I have yet to see anything remotely resembling a community trial happening here.

A research paper showing potentially positive results describing a specific type of wounding using a specific instrument using a specific protocol. Simple?

Instead I've read mostly stuff that has sorta bummed me out...

Totally ignoring risk factors so that no informed decisions seem to be made.
Little to no adherence to the instrument or protocol described so efficacy can't be determined.
No need to move on from here because without the above all you have is a bunch of individuals rolling dice and hoping for 7/11 to come up ten times in a row.

Hellouser came up with a good initial idea when starting this thread but I'm afraid overabundant enthusiasm and maybe a little desperation has allowed the train to come off the rails.

Oh well...

clandestine
08-26-2013, 11:02 AM
Baby John; what do you recommend?

Hicks
08-26-2013, 11:09 AM
Baby John: Some of us lurk and keep a personal journal and when something interesting pops up we chime in. Feel free to start your own trial and let us know when/if something interesting pops up. Glad your back!

Baby John
08-26-2013, 11:20 AM
My first recommendation would be to treat all recommendations sceptically. Not joking here.

You have a community here, some of them quite informed. And everyone can contribute to researching things.

Job One would be to rip the study apart and look for potential problems. If satisfied...

Job Two would establish a protocol that would be agreed upon by the community and would be strictly adhered to. Safety guidelines are established and strictly adhered to. Deviation would be considered a different trial.

That's a start, feel free to smash it and make it better.

hellouser
08-26-2013, 12:01 PM
I'm definitely deviating from the study;

1) I'm on CB-03-01 at the moment
2) Dermarolling is causing me significant bleeding

In reference to #2, I don't see the point of using a 1.5mm without it having to cause bleeding. If 'mild erythema' was desired, a 0.5mm microneedle dermaroller would have been enough. Therefor, they most likely didn't press in all the way with the 1.5mm dermaroller.

Atum
08-26-2013, 12:10 PM
Did a dermarolling session for the first time this morning.
I was a bit surprised that you can hear your skin getting pierced. Well, i think i pressed the needles full in, i was bleeding, so that's a good sign.

Baby John
08-26-2013, 12:13 PM
Heya Hicks,

Thanks for the welcome. It was actually another board I bailed on because the hysteria got on my nerves. Being told you know nothing about something I was involved with clinically, then to watch the product being used improperly by a transplant surgeon with good intentions soured me completely. Haven't posted again til today. Depending upon what I see here near term I may be bailing again...

Personal experimentation is all well and good, but it needs to be well thought out and carefully monitored. The advantage to working with a community is you now can replicate results and collectively keep an eye out for problems.

Take what you're doing with the roller ball for example. I've done my share of stripping with a foam roller and yes, breaking up micro-scarring hurts.

Now, when doing this to your head and coupling it with the needling do you think the level of damage that is being done is in line with what's required to initiate the desired signal process? From a risk perspective, are you exceeding the parameter and perhaps promoting fibrotic tissue formation?

I am not trying to break your chops. Just trying to get you to ask questions to which you may desire an answer.

brunobald
08-26-2013, 12:27 PM
Being told you know nothing about something I was involved with clinically, then to watch the product being used improperly by a transplant surgeon with good intentions soured me completely.


Hi BabyJohn, was this Acell by any chance?

Hicks
08-26-2013, 12:30 PM
Heya Hicks,
Take what you're doing with the roller ball for example. I've done my share of stripping with a foam roller and yes, breaking up micro-scarring hurts.

Now, when doing this to your head and coupling it with the needling do you think the level of damage that is being done is in line with what's required to initiate the desired signal process? From a risk perspective, are you exceeding the parameter and perhaps promoting fibrotic tissue formation?

I am not trying to break your chops. Just trying to get you to ask questions to which you may desire an answer.

No worries, I have thick skin. Truefully I don't know. It was an idea I had but with the amount of blood I had I doubt I will do it with the derma roller again. I might use my derma roller Sunday night then ball roll another day. I made a post about the ball roll because I would say without a doubt it does do something. What it actually does in the scientific world I don't know. That being said it might be a great tool for someone that doesn't want to dermaroll. The Idea is to damage then repair (I do take supplement i.e., amino acids, etc.), ball rolling does do damage to the tissue and blood is circulating more and with the addition of minoxal you might get results. I know foam rolling is pretty awesome before a workout.

I don't try to get into a dog fights in these forums and I'm to busy to read all 90 pages where 80% are peole crying and not doing their own homework. I get an idea and try it out for 1-3 months. I wish I rented a macro lens for pictures because I am seeing small dark hairs but I"m not sure if those are hairs from a hair cycling back to life or not. However I did visit some HT Dr.s in I think July and they took photos. I'll be back to those Drs again in Nov to make a decision on a HT. That would make me at one year being on the Big 3.

Baby John
08-26-2013, 12:33 PM
Hellouser,

Then you find some people who are willing to work with you for a cb/needling trial. Piggybacking one trial to another is the decision of the participants. Statistical samples don't have to be huge. Repeating a result and enhancing safety are what your looking for.

You asked another poster what they would they give to get their hair back, what you don't give is your physical well being. Always remember very nasty things can happen along with the good...

Baby John
08-26-2013, 12:46 PM
Hi Bruno,

Yes it was. I sold a nearly identical product from another company. A tissue derived acellular matrix. Whether from Acell or the company I was with, make no mistake, these are wonderful products with a great track record for making peoples lives better.

However, hair follicles don't form in them. Not one piece of evidence in the 25 years that this stuff has been around shows a specialized structure forming in the new tissue during the healing process. Not one sweat gland, goose bump or hair.

Another study hellouser posted in this thread addresses this as well.

Lot of interesting stuff on this thread.

35YrsAfter
08-26-2013, 12:55 PM
Also note:

Wounding that produces the signaling that may cause hair growth may also increase the incidence of basal cell carcinoma. See the study Hellouser posted earlier in this thread.

That's something to be concerned about! This is an article (http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2011/01/28/1013098108.full.pdf) (PDF) worth looking at.

I personally believe that a poor diet, air quality, carcinogen exposure and poor general health can act as a cancer "catalyst". Of course genetics plays a role as well.

Don't burn your head guys! Some sun exposure is good in my opinion. If you're doing micro needling, stay healthy.

35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office
www.forhair.com
Cole Hair Transplant
1045 Powers Place
Alpharetta, Georgia 30009
Phone 678-566-1011
email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
Please feel free to call or email me with any questions. Ask for Chuck

Baby John
08-26-2013, 12:55 PM
Hicks,

You may be spot on. I certainly don't know. I just want people to ask questions and try to make informed decisions before they decide to do - or not to do - something.

Thanks for being nice about it though, I can sound like a robot.

HARIRI
08-26-2013, 01:46 PM
That's something to be concerned about! This is an article (http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2011/01/28/1013098108.full.pdf) (PDF) worth looking at.

I personally believe that a poor diet, air quality, carcinogen exposure and poor general health can act as a cancer "catalyst". Of course genetics plays a role as well.

Don't burn your head guys! Some sun exposure is good in my opinion. If you're doing micro needling, stay healthy.

35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office
www.forhair.com
Cole Hair Transplant
1045 Powers Place
Alpharetta, Georgia 30009
Phone 678-566-1011
email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
Please feel free to call or email me with any questions. Ask for Chuck

Thats why professional hair companies produce dermarollers for scalp (Scalp rollers) with maximum 0.5mm needles to avoid bad wounding. Even on Ebay, most of dermarollers have instructions in which one to choose and for which purpose. When it comes to hair loss they would refer to 0.3, 0.5 and 0.75 maximum and not more. I spent a lot of money on my transplanted hair and not wishing to damage my precious follicles lol.

I'm using the 0.5mm scalp roller once a week although its mentioned that it could be used everyday. Its better than nothing. None of us here want to have tumors God forbid :(

Pentarou
08-26-2013, 02:01 PM
Eurgh, I'm reluctant to jump on this bandwagon now if there's a tumour risk.

Ginkosama
08-26-2013, 02:09 PM
Eurgh, I'm reluctant to jump on this bandwagon now if there's a tumour risk.

There will always be something.
We are talking about piercing 1.0mm holes in your head once a week.

I think mankind faced tougher threats and survived just fine.

Man up people.

KeepHoping
08-26-2013, 02:15 PM
People who are not in the sciences throw around the word "carcinogenic" all the time but it shouldn't scare people away. People commonly say that aspartame in diet beverages causes cancer or is carcinogenic when in fact there is zero scientific evidence to back it. I highly doubt a 1.5mm dermaroller on the human scalp will actually cause much risk of tumor formation.

It's a 12 week study... It doesn't cost much to do, if you want to give it a shot and follow the protocol on the study, do it! If not, don't. It's that simple.

KeepHoping
08-26-2013, 02:27 PM
I would like to ask what type of minoxidil you guys recommend. Foam or Liquid?

HARIRI
08-26-2013, 02:31 PM
I would like to ask what type of minoxidil you guys recommend. Foam or Liquid?

Liquid of course, please read this article:-

http://www.bernsteinmedical.com/hair-transplant-video/which-is-better-rogaine-foam-or-liquid/

Hicks
08-26-2013, 02:53 PM
I would like to ask what type of minoxidil you guys recommend. Foam or Liquid?

I use regain foam in the mornings because it's not greasy and flows with the weeds I have left, then I use lipogaine liquid at night. I think liquid is best but I'd be damned if I use it before I go to work or out in public

StayThick
08-26-2013, 03:11 PM
I use regain foam in the mornings because it's not greasy and flows with the weeds I have left, then I use lipogaine liquid at night. I think liquid is best but I'd be damned if I use it before I go to work or out in public

This is exactly what I do. I agree 100% with this.

I can't fathom going out during the day with Lipogaine or Minox liquid on my head. No way.

evasive
08-26-2013, 10:00 PM
I just received my Roller in the mail (192 needles 1.5mm)

One question though, I am using Non-PG Minoxidil... this won't affect anything right?

brunobald
08-27-2013, 01:56 AM
However, hair follicles don't form in them. Not one piece of evidence in the 25 years that this stuff has been around shows a specialized structure forming in the new tissue during the healing process. Not one sweat gland, goose bump or hair.


BabyJohn we could do with your experience on the forum. What are your thoughts on HT Surgens who use Acell injected into the doner hair site. Dr Cole claims a regen rate of 50% on average and a max of 70%

Baby John
08-27-2013, 08:28 AM
Bruno,

Don't know how far off topic this is but, since wounding and regenerative healing is the subject it may be relevant.

I can't speak about this surgeon's claims because I don't know the specifics.

That being said, I can talk about the facts regarding tissue derived acellular scaffolds. In the treatments that are available today, they are among the best. When used correctly in a patient that is physically receptive to the device and if that patient is compliant, good and sometimes amazing outcomes will be observed.

Take a strip excision for example. A surgeon applies good technique in the closure, the patient matches well with the scaffold and is compliant so as not to disrupt the healing process, you will see: full thickness skin formation without visible fibrous build up. Great contraction of the wound because of this. Better remodeling of the wound including pigmentation. Make no mistake, this is awesome when it goes right. Your best result is sometimes called "baby skin" because it looks great, is nice and smooth AND contains zero specialized structures. This skin will never sweat, form a goose bump or grow a hair follicle.

Every piece of research regarding full, scar free regenerative wound healing bears this out. In the study posted on this very thread regarding hydrogels this was confirmed yet again by using this type of scaffold as a control. They grew no structures and actually appeared to contraindicate their formation.

clandestine
08-27-2013, 08:41 AM
ragsta; where are you at bro?

Baby John; not sure if you might have any insights on this, but I've got some scarring on my head from using a razor at one point.

I'm planning on using a 1.5mm derma roller in conjunction with minox to hopefully remediate this to an extent, and maybe even possible regrow some hair in the scarred area.

The hair was never removed, scarring just occurred. Do you think a 1.5mm derma roller could help? Should I use a smaller mm, like 1 or 0.75, as I currently have a shaved head?

Thank you.

hellouser
08-27-2013, 08:47 AM
Seeing how I started the thread and would like to maintain it to stay on topic, I guess you could say it has something to do with me.

Feel free to take your off-topic comments elsewhere. Thank you.

Breaking Bald
08-27-2013, 09:27 AM
So anyone seeing much results yet?

doke
08-27-2013, 09:33 AM
I have made comments myself on my own threads and welcome everyone so take you secret society with you as the bald truth wants people who tell the truth not this silly dermaroller thread as i was using this when you were in dipers.
No new thing this been around many years if it worked we would know by now im not saying it does nothing it maydo but for me it did not.:):):)

clandestine
08-27-2013, 09:36 AM
The problem with aggressive micro-needling is that there is really no longterm studies that have been conducted on the formation of scar tissue within the scalp that can ultimately adversely effect hair growth. If you couple that with potential tissue irritants found in these topical vehicles the potential for irreversible damage is certainly there. I really think people need to exercise caution when doing this, real damage can be caused.

A good point brought up by amadeus.

Winston
08-27-2013, 10:28 AM
Please keep this thread on topic. Any off topic or antagonistic posts will be removed. Please take the time to familiarize yourselves with our Posting Rules & Terms of Service (http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showthread.php?t=12805).

Baby John
08-27-2013, 10:37 AM
Baby John; not sure if you might have any insights on this, but I've got some scarring on my head from using a razor at one point.

Thank you.

Heya clan,

I finally saw the quote button. Sheesh...

I'm very sorry that I don't have any solid answer for you. I came into this thread curious about the process and while there's lots of excellent info to be found, putting it all together and making an informed decision isn't easy...

Can a person prone to scarring needle safely?
What kind of results, good or bad, should they look for?
If the the scarring is shallow and the underlying structures are intact, what results should we look for?
Hair follicles don't form in scar tissue but, can we expect a cosmetic improvement in the appearance and what problems do we keep an eye out for so we don't make it worse?

The answers may around somewhere or, if not, a group can come together perhaps provide a definitive answer or move towards one. If they make an effort to do it right.

Otherwise it's one off anecdotes and that's not much better than taking advice from a guy on the corner with a liquor bottle in his hand...

doke
08-27-2013, 10:58 AM
Dermaroller as said been out many years not a new topic so much as old news?

amadeus
08-27-2013, 11:00 AM
Unfortunately, that's exactly what is happening on these forums. It's one thing to be excited about sharing information, but it's unfair to everyone to give unsubstantiated advice as if it were the gospel.

Logically, if you are aggressively wounding your skin to the point of drawing blood on a regular basis, some scaring will occur., even if it is not visible to the naked eye. This is just the way our body heals. I would not use more than a .5 for home use and to be honest, I do not believe that any potential hair growth seen from rolling will be significant enough to make a cosmetic difference in the long term. I believe that if you don't adjust the hormones that are causing hair loss, then everything else might only be a temporary fix at best.


Otherwise it's one off anecdotes and that's not much better than taking advice from a guy on the corner with a liquor bottle in his hand...

KeepHoping
08-27-2013, 11:03 AM
There's some indication in the study that the results were long lasting after the completion of the 12 weeks... Do you guys think, if benefits are seen, that discontinuing minox after a 12 week course following the studies protocol that the benefits will be long lasting if someone is taking fin?

doke
08-27-2013, 11:05 AM
Seeing how I started the thread and would like to maintain it to stay on topic, I guess you could say it has something to do with me.

Feel free to take your off-topic comments elsewhere. Thank you.

No need to as im informing you its old news this been using derma for many years on and off it may be of some help on bald shiny areas as i am trying it again.
Perhaps histogen with have to have products injected into scalp i do have some diabetic syringes but what would be the product to do this with minoxidil into the scalp may be helpful or it may give more side effects.
It is these shiny bald areas where it would be great to regenerate new hair i heard that some guys a few years ago regrew hair with neosil psi after only a few weeks and then have a month off and reuse again so if we could try labpe psi and dermaroll the area first this may help.

gainspotter
08-27-2013, 11:16 AM
FFS! Nothing is ever simple where hair is concerned!
:mad:

amadeus
08-27-2013, 11:25 AM
No one wants to hear this, but fin would be what makes the difference in those who respond well to it. If DHT is strangling your hair follicles, the process will keep happening unless it's put in check. There is really no way around that fact at this point in time. Fin is the cornerstone to any effective treatment plan.


There's some indication in the study that the results were long lasting after the completion of the 12 weeks... Do you guys think, if benefits are seen, that discontinuing minox after a 12 week course following the studies protocol that the benefits will be long lasting if someone is taking fin?

Baby John
08-27-2013, 11:32 AM
Logically, if you are aggressively wounding your skin to the point of drawing blood on a regular basis, some scaring will occur., even if it is not visible.

Amadeus,

Aside from the fellow that pointed out a glaring conflict of interest issue with the research, you're the only person that has, in actuality, participated in a community trial.

90 plus pages...
2 actual participants...

Think I'll just sit back with the popcorn on this one.

brunobald
08-27-2013, 12:37 PM
Maybe a safer way around these scarring issues is to test elsewhere on the body. I assume follicule generation is the same all over the body so we could test a small test area on some vellus hairs on the arm and see if we can turn them terminal?

This way we keep our scalps free of scars until we have the process nailed. What we need is a efficent process so you would have to derma roll way less. We can figure this out elsewhere on our bodys. It may also be easier to track progress as you can take pics yourself maybe get a hena tattoo marker or do it near a mole or some other body feature.

Then once we get repeatable results we can move to the scalp and test there. Then we will know the effect of DHT on the follicules.

thinningTooSoon
08-27-2013, 12:53 PM
What happened to PrettyFly83, has there been any update on his progress? As far as I can see he is the only one who reported any regrowth...

DesperateOne
08-27-2013, 01:05 PM
I came here expecting good news and instead it's all bad. It's like watching the news on tv, murder, crime, and catastrophes. I will just watch the show today and hopefully someone will call in to talk about the derma rolling and well I might stop coming here for a while, it's too depressing. I also agree that without fun this method is as good as useless, IMO.

Conpecia
08-27-2013, 01:13 PM
Amadeus,

Aside from the fellow that pointed out a glaring conflict of interest issue with the research, you're the only person that has, in actuality, participated in a community trial.

90 plus pages...
2 actual participants...

Think I'll just sit back with the popcorn on this one.

hi baby john, not sure i follow what you're getting at with this post? obviously lots of guys are dermarolling so i'm sure you don't mean that only 2 are dermarolling. obviously a community trial is not the same thing as a scientific "trial" in the 3-phase sense so you're not comparing those. so what is your point here?

i think it's better for everyone to run out and try this in a million different ways, rather than have every single one of us adhere to the exact same roller, the exact same brand of minox, the exact same length of time b/t rolling, etc.

that seems like a monumental waste of time, basically trying to catch a never-before-seen fish with one hundred pieces of the same bait instead of one hundred different pieces of bait at the same time.

sure, we'll sacrifice organization and whatnot, but if people start getting results on method x we can go down that alley and refine the documentation, and if no one is getting results on method y we can discontinue it for the time being, rather than wasting 6 months with one method, only to find no one responds, whereupon a second method is established for 6 months, etc. that is the one real advantage we have over the larger companies and we ought to take it.

i think i'm misreading your criticism honestly. is there a reason beyond poor documentation that you're upset with this "trial?"

hellouser
08-27-2013, 01:15 PM
i think i'm misreading your criticism honestly. is there a reason beyond poor documentation that you're upset with this "trial?"

LOL, what do people expect, FDA approved documentation? If thats the case, you'd end up waiting 5+ years.

Conpecia
08-27-2013, 01:41 PM
Unfortunately, that's exactly what is happening on these forums. It's one thing to be excited about sharing information, but it's unfair to everyone to give unsubstantiated advice as if it were the gospel.

Logically, if you are aggressively wounding your skin to the point of drawing blood on a regular basis, some scaring will occur., even if it is not visible to the naked eye. This is just the way our body heals. I would not use more than a .5 for home use and to be honest, I do not believe that any potential hair growth seen from rolling will be significant enough to make a cosmetic difference in the long term. I believe that if you don't adjust the hormones that are causing hair loss, then everything else might only be a temporary fix at best.

You tell everyone not to give unsubstantiated advice and then IMMEDIATELY advise people not to use anything more than .5mm, without ANY documentation of the negative effects of using 1.5mm once weekly and following a published study.

I understand and actually appreciate your cautionary approach, but this is complete hypocrisy. You have no evidence that 1.5mm will do anything beyond what is suggested in the study, which is regrow a substantial amount of hair.

I agree that without an AA the gains me be temporary, but everyone is freaking out about the same type conjecture and assumption for which they've gotten so excited. There's no evidence it hurts. There's some evidence it helps. 1-0 good guys.

Jazz1
08-27-2013, 01:44 PM
I use regain foam in the mornings because it's not greasy and flows with the weeds I have left, then I use lipogaine liquid at night. I think liquid is best but I'd be damned if I use it before I go to work or out in public

Iv been doing this last week I ditched regaine foam night started lipogaine instead, does it work?

amadeus
08-27-2013, 02:12 PM
Actually, I stated that "I" would not use more the a .5 for home use. I wasn't advising anyone of anything. Sorry if you find my comments hypocritical, I understand that you really want this to work for you. I'm just trying to bring some logic into the mix.

Perhaps if you guys could check the emotions at the door, these discussions would become even more productive.

Just as there is no evidence that aggressively micro-needling "hurts" as you put it, there is no evidence to the contrary either.



You tell everyone not to give unsubstantiated advice and then IMMEDIATELY advise people not to use anything more than .5mm, without ANY documentation of the negative effects of using 1.5mm once weekly and following a published study.

I understand and actually appreciate your cautionary approach, but this is complete hypocrisy. You have no evidence that 1.5mm will do anything beyond what is suggested in the study, which is regrow a substantial amount of hair.

I agree that without an AA the gains me be temporary, but everyone is freaking out about the same type conjecture and assumption for which they've gotten so excited. There's no evidence it hurts. There's some evidence it helps. 1-0 good guys.

lilpauly
08-27-2013, 02:12 PM
Guys my camera is on its way and I got thousands of hairs and the dermaroller is part of the reason !!!!!!!!

Conpecia
08-27-2013, 02:30 PM
Actually, I stated that "I" would not use more the a .5 for home use. I wasn't advising anyone of anything. Sorry if you find my comments hypocritical, I understand that you really want this to work for you. I'm just trying to bring some logic into the mix.

Perhaps if you guys could check the emotions at the door, these discussions would become even more productive.

Just as there is no evidence that aggressively micro-needling "hurts" as you put it, there is no evidence to the contrary either.

ah, but there is evidence to the contrary. i.e. the study. hence this thread.

not trying to being emotional here, just concerned that you have no empirical evidence before making a claim that could derail this entire project.

and again, i appreciate that you're only being cautious and trying to help people not get scarred. but there's no evidence of this happening with dermarolling 1x/week at 1.5mm.

Baby John
08-27-2013, 02:34 PM
hi baby john, not sure i follow what you're getting at with this post?

Hiya Con,

My last post.

This is supposedly a community trial, a group of people working together to develope an effective treatment based on a previous study.

As a community:

You have failed to take a critical look at the very study you wish to emulate.
You have failed to assess the risks which may be involved.
You have failed to to provide any method to reliably measure efficacy.

What you are is a bunch of people that read a few paragraphs of text, saw a couple of before and after pictures, and individually start pulling the trigger to just, as one poster put it, put some 1mm holes in your scalp once a week.

Golly, that's nothing...

Unless you do a little math!

If you're doing the entire top of your head, that's at least 10 meters of wounds depth wise over 12 weeks in the very place you want hair to grow. And you're doing this without making a single informed decision...

Man Up!

Good luck and goodbye.

Borealis
08-27-2013, 02:35 PM
Is anyone in contact with a Dermatologist or anyone who could advise us on the scarring concern?

Why is nothing ever simple with this stupid thing! :(

Also, PrettyFly was meant to be getting in touch with the people that conducted the study. Did he manage to get a reply off them?

amadeus
08-27-2013, 02:48 PM
Well put Baby John. It's sometimes difficult to attempt to bring logic into the mix when we're dealing with such intense emotions.


Hiya Con,

My last post.

This is supposedly a community trial, a group of people working together to develope an effective treatment based on a previous study.

As a community:

You have failed to take a critical look at the very study you wish to emulate.
You have failed to assess the risks which may be involved.
You have failed to to provide any method to reliably measure efficacy.

What you are is a bunch of people that read a few paragraphs of text, saw a couple of before and after pictures, and individually start pulling the trigger to just, as one poster put it, put some 1mm holes in your scalp once a week.

Golly, that's nothing...

Unless you do a little math!

If you're doing the entire top of your head, that's at least 10 meters of wounds depth wise over 12 weeks in the very place you want hair to grow. And you're doing this without making a single informed decision...

Man Up!

Good luck and goodbye.

hellouser
08-27-2013, 02:53 PM
What you are is a bunch of people that read a few paragraphs of text, saw a couple of before and after pictures, and individually start pulling the trigger to just, as one poster put it, put some 1mm holes in your scalp once a week.

That is offensive as well as a lie. All the articles and publications I've posted throughout this thread have supported wounding induced hair growth.

As a whole, our job is to look into it more and see how we can use the studies to our advantage, rather than have one individual slam the entire project.

amadeus
08-27-2013, 03:02 PM
I don't think Baby John is slamming anything. He's being logical and realistic. We would all love to improve our chances of growing more hair, but the simplistic view documented by most of the posters on this thread only highlights what Baby John has so eloquently pointed out.


That is offensive as well as a lie. All the articles and publications I've posted throughout this thread have supported wounding induced hair growth.

As a whole, our job is to look into it more and see how we can use the studies to our advantage, rather than have one individual slam the entire project.

Chromeo
08-27-2013, 04:09 PM
I don't think there is really much point grumping and groaning that the trial is not being adhered to strictly by everyone. It isn't highschool, we don't all have to do things the way teacher says... Sorry if anyone is unhappy about it, but frankly expecting everyone on this thread to do the exact same thing here is somewhat unrealistic.

People are in the middle of regimes that they are not willing to completely drop altogether just so they can replicate this study accurately. However, many are quite willing to add dermarolling into the mix. These folks are perfectly welcome in my view to chime in and give us an idea whether or not they are seeing any improvement or not. I think it's valuable information, regardless of whether or not they are sticking to the "rules" of the original study.

Conpecia
08-27-2013, 04:34 PM
Will someone please simply provide evidence that either a) the study was inaccurate in some form, or b) dermarolling one's scalp with a 1.5mm roller once weekly is somehow dangerous in any way beyond not taking care to prevent an infection. I am sick of individuals demanding "realistic" and "logical" approaches, and when I in turn can point to a published study from a department of dermatology with photographs, AND photographs from a member of this very forum who has absolutely no agenda, AND the fact that this dermarolling technique has been used for decades without notions of scarring or cancer, AND the theories and studies upon which Follica, the most important company in the balding world, are founded on the wounding approach, AND the fact that an indian clinic cannot benefit from a study involving minoxidil and derma rollers which are purchased on amazon... in spite of it all, it's not enough and we're all somehow uninformed or foolish or we are rushing to take part in some snake oil approach having done no research. And yet when I try to get a single speck of evidence from these individuals as to the apparent dangers of this method they have nothing. Absolutely nothing. No evidence. No studies. No photographs. No companies. No links. I just do not understand. If you have evidence then show me and I will absolutely consider it. If you have an idea of a possible risk then state your words of caution and I for one will appreciate them. But if you are simply going to criticize and belittle the very real and very brave efforts of the community, and in particular people like Hellouser, from the safety of your digital perch while the rest of us men are in the trenches, all merely because we aren't doing it as well as you can imagine or as you would like it done, then yes, leave this thread and do not post here again, because I have absolutely no respect for you.

lilpauly
08-27-2013, 06:17 PM
1.5 mm dermaroller can cause bleeding.....

UK_
08-27-2013, 06:29 PM
1.5 mm dermaroller can cause bleeding.....

Lilpauly have you tried dermarolling + injecting FGF9 with WNT7A???

I really think we should set up a study or something into growth factors for hair loss, I am willing to help with funding.

lilpauly
08-27-2013, 06:46 PM
Lilpauly have you tried dermarolling + injecting FGF9 with WNT7A???

I really think we should set up a study or something into growth factors for hair loss, I am willing to help with funding.

No man I never injected anything into my scalp. Fgf9 seems promising . I will also pay as well, we must know long term sides etc, . Based on information in the grow factors from Kane there were no known sides in clinical studies but farrel my friend from
Hlh said there could be sides . Any1 who users experimentals please realize potential sides. also considder any sides when using any treatment

UK_
08-27-2013, 06:49 PM
No man I never injected anything into my scalp. Fgf9 seems promising . I will also pay as well, we must know long term sides etc, . Based on information in the grow factors from Kane there were no known sides but farrel my friend fro
Hlh said there could be sides . Any1 who users experimentals please realize potential sides.

What do you think about potential for heart failure on CB? Do you think boldy was right about heart failure sides???

lilpauly
08-27-2013, 06:53 PM
What do you think about potential for heart failure on CB? Do you think boldy was right about heart failure sides???

well in the studies by cosmo no sides where reported, people have reported irregualr heart beats with cb, ru and minox. in fact minox landed jonson123 in the hospital. minox at large makes my eyes black,

Hicks
08-27-2013, 06:53 PM
Iv been doing this last week I ditched regaine foam night started lipogaine instead, does it work?

Not sure, I think it's one of those things you'll notice once you stop. I like to think liquid is better but it makes my hair feel like crap so it comes down to quality oflife style.

clandestine
08-27-2013, 07:41 PM
well in the studies by cosmo no sides where reported, people have reported irregualr heart beats with cb, ru and minox. in fact minox landed jonson123 in the hospital. minox at large makes my eyes black,

That went away when you discontinued minox use, correct?

lilpauly
08-27-2013, 09:06 PM
That went away when you discontinued minox use, correct?

I got very bad circles with ******* by dr parks! It was awful I wax dizzy as well. 5% was ok , I'm trying dr klieins product now

doke
08-28-2013, 12:59 AM
That is offensive as well as a lie. All the articles and publications I've posted throughout this thread have supported wounding induced hair growth.

As a whole, our job is to look into it more and see how we can use the studies to our advantage, rather than have one individual slam the entire project.

Theres nothing offensive about babyjohns remark we are free to make our own mind up and as i have said dermarolling has been with us a long time you did not invent it as i have been using for two years and posted on other sites about it as said it may help but its no cure for mpb.

gainspotter
08-28-2013, 01:52 AM
Theres nothing offensive about babyjohns remark we are free to make our own mind up and as i have said dermarolling has been with us a long time you did not invent it as i have been using for two years and posted on other sites about it as said it may help but its no cure for mpb.

So because someone has tried this and it hasn't worked, eventhough the study hasn't been around for 2 years probably, we should all pack in and give up. This thread is starting to get stupid.

doke
08-28-2013, 02:36 AM
show me proof of anyone who has regrown any hair with dermaroller i as keep saying not to use or try it as it may help when using minoxidil but the wounding of the scalp is a different game and we are not sure how to yet do this without causing danger to ourselves ie: infection although i use copper peptides with scalp roller as said for over two years now but we know they use it on skin for a very long time.
The scalp wounding thing sounds interesting as there was the old isra piliel on burns on scalp and the topical culture medium piliel which regrew hair back on the burn sites.

walrus
08-28-2013, 03:04 AM
show me proof of anyone who has regrown any hair with dermaroller

Have you even read this thread, or are you coming here with preconceptions?


we are not sure how to yet do this without causing danger to ourselves ie: infection

Disinfecting an object between use isn't exactly difficult. It's not like people are sharing dermarollers.

doke
08-28-2013, 03:07 AM
By the way the piliel trials were a gel culture which when applied to burn wounds on scalp in two weeks they were amazed that not only had they healed but where they thought no hair would regrow it was regrowing so many of us were excited and wanted to get hold of this gel but it never happened until Dr Ella lindenbaum had talks with a company osmotics and they produced topical fns and many found it was not the original trial product that had insulin growth factors in a medium culture gel.
I think to mass produce this may have been the problem plus the medical fda may not have approved it but the dr still says it will work but i was wondering about trying fns with dermaroller as the wounding maybe the say damage that burns did to the scalp and then apply the fns.
There is an interview at hairlosshelp with dr lindenbaum about piliel and also some pics if you search for Dr Ella Lindenbaum and topical piliel for hair loss its quite interesting.

doke
08-28-2013, 03:09 AM
Have you even read this thread, or are you coming here with preconceptions?



Disinfecting an object between use isn't exactly difficult. It's not like people are sharing dermarollers.

Hi Walrus as i say i have and still use dermaroller and find it does help but its finding the right product to use with it and as said in my post about piliel it maybe good to try that with the derma or even copper peptides as they help with wound healing and hair loss.

the_dude78
08-28-2013, 03:17 AM
show me proof of anyone who has regrown any hair with dermaroller i as keep saying not to use or try it as it may help when using minoxidil but the wounding of the scalp is a different game and we are not sure how to yet do this without causing danger to ourselves ie: infection although i use copper peptides with scalp roller as said for over two years now but we know they use it on skin for a very long time.
The scalp wounding thing sounds interesting as there was the old isra piliel on burns on scalp and the topical culture medium piliel which regrew hair back on the burn sites.

doke, people have been using the dermaroller all over the body for years.It's not difficult to avoid infections, and I've never heard of anyone getting an infection or done harm to themselves.

EDIT: And could we just let this experiment run for at least 12 weeks before we shoot it down. People have been using the dermaroller for baldness before, yes, but never the way it was done in the study.

doke
08-28-2013, 04:58 AM
hey dude yes i know i get pimples anyway sometimes on scalp without dermaroller it must be acne and i always disinfect my roller with dettol infact you can wash your hair with dettol for dandruff as long as you dilute it.

vanityhair
08-28-2013, 05:25 AM
Will a "Surgical Spirit" (from Boots, UK) containing Ethanol and Methanol be sufficient for sterilizing the Dermaroller?

Thanks in advance.

NeedHairASAP
08-28-2013, 07:04 AM
well in the studies by cosmo no sides where reported, people have reported irregualr heart beats with cb, ru and minox. in fact minox landed jonson123 in the hospital. minox at large makes my eyes black,

minox gave me dark circles too... and water retention in the face.

Probably heart issues too, but wasn't looking out for them at that time.

Gho gave me some minox after the treatment, and it actually worked pretty good. Whatever formula he gave me kinda smelt good too. It was in a HASCI bottle, so I think he may whip it up himself.

Conpecia
08-28-2013, 08:51 AM
show me proof of anyone who has regrown any hair with dermaroller i as keep saying not to use or try it as it may help when using minoxidil but the wounding of the scalp is a different game and we are not sure how to yet do this without causing danger to ourselves ie: infection although i use copper peptides with scalp roller as said for over two years now but we know they use it on skin for a very long time.
The scalp wounding thing sounds interesting as there was the old isra piliel on burns on scalp and the topical culture medium piliel which regrew hair back on the burn sites.

doke please see prettyfly's results in this very thread, showing significant regrowth over i believe 2 or 3 months with the roller and minox.

Dan26
08-28-2013, 09:03 AM
My friend is reporting results with minox/dermarolling. He is not on this forum though, and he had used minox in the past and was a good responder. Interesting to see if his results will be even better this time around (1 month in so far)

Hicks
08-28-2013, 09:03 AM
With the lack of motorators keeping threads on track, I would be adding to my ignore list if I was some of you guys. In the little time I've been on this forum I think I added 8.

the_dude78
08-28-2013, 09:24 AM
Any idea when it would be wise to add Nizoral? I mean, can I do it the day after or should I wait a few days?

doke
08-28-2013, 10:56 AM
doke please see prettyfly's results in this very thread, showing significant regrowth over i believe 2 or 3 months with the roller and minox.

many thanks con i will check it out.

doke
08-28-2013, 10:59 AM
Will a "Surgical Spirit" (from Boots, UK) containing Ethanol and Methanol be sufficient for sterilizing the Dermaroller?

Thanks in advance.

Good old dettol is easy to buy and used can be used neat on derma or just dilute in water or alchohol can be used to sterilise but never had a problem with dettol.

UK_
08-28-2013, 11:04 AM
I got very bad circles with ******* by dr parks! It was awful I wax dizzy as well. 5% was ok , I'm trying dr klieins product now

That's likely to happen I mean Minox lowers blood pressure so you feel light headed and basically like your going to pass out.

doke
08-28-2013, 11:32 AM
Here's my last dermarolling session from a couple days ago:

http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l490/hellouser/dermarolling/13-08-14-right-temple.jpg

It's my right temple, as you can see I'm far more harsh on my skin now.

hi hell i think you have gone too far as you do not really need to make your scalp bleed and i got this advice from australia dermerskin as they support using the roller with once a day application of 5% minox and then after minox has dried apply copper peptide spray and my hair at six months was getting good results.

doke
08-28-2013, 11:36 AM
That's likely to happen I mean Minox lowers blood pressure so you feel light headed and basically like your going to pass out.

if the minox gets absorbed better then perhaps all we need to use is 2% minoxidil lotion or a 3% and at two times a day may not get side effects so bad..

lilpauly
08-28-2013, 11:36 AM
That's likely to happen I mean Minox lowers blood pressure so you feel light headed and basically like your going to pass out.

It was dr klieins ******* and perfect image 15 that did it to me , very bad

TO YOUNG TO RETIRE
08-28-2013, 02:11 PM
wait 24h before application
if the minox gets absorbed better then perhaps all we need to use is 2% minoxidil lotion or a 3% and at two times a day may not get side effects so bad..

HARIRI
08-28-2013, 02:24 PM
It was dr klieins ******* and perfect image 15 that did it to me , very bad

You mean Dr Lee ******* :rolleyes:

I have been using it for 3 years once before sleep, no sides at all, also the perfect image before they add a new ingredient (Retinol) that makes it yellow and extremely sticky.

They wrote about it the following:-

ISSUE: Perfect Image Solutions recalled all lots of these topical hair regrowth products because they are deemed “unapproved new drugs” under FDA regulations, and may present potential health hazards.

Use of these topical products containing 15% and 10% Minoxidil have not been shown to be safe, and could pose a risk to the general public due to the possibility of systemic absorption. Skin abrasions or irritations, such as psoriasis or sunburn, could increase the systemic absorption of topically administered Minoxidil. Minoxidil 15% and 10% could cause low blood pressure, heart palpitations and associated cardiac symptoms. Azelaic acid contained in the topical products could make the skin where it is applied more sensitive to sunburn. Ketoconazole contained in the shampoo product could cause hair discoloration and abnormal hair texture, removal of the curl from permanently waved hair, itching, rash, skin irritation and dry skin. Salicylic acid contained in the shampoo could cause mild, temporary burning, itching, irritation, or stinging.

Check this out: http://www.fda.gov/safety/Recalls/ucm288505.htm

What makes me sick is how FDA states that and they are leaving Minoxidil Max alone, check out their website !!! Its unfair really!!! :confused:

walrus
08-28-2013, 03:35 PM
if the minox gets absorbed better then perhaps all we need to use is 2% minoxidil lotion or a 3% and at two times a day may not get side effects so bad..

This is nothing to do with absorption. Please read the thread.

chimera
08-28-2013, 03:43 PM
This is nothing to do with absorption. Please read the thread.

I think he means that, even if this has nothing to do with absorption, if minox absorption increases with the dermaroller (which it does), reducing minox percentage could be helpful for those with minox side effects

Pentarou
08-28-2013, 03:48 PM
This thread has become a total anarchy, people taking this completely off-topic and not even trying to understand that the regrowth is meant to be due to wounding and recovery, not minox absorption. Any potential useful information is being drowned out by the incessant dabble.

Chromeo
08-28-2013, 04:18 PM
This thread has become a total anarchy, people taking this completely off-topic and not even trying to understand that the regrowth is meant to be due to wounding and recovery, not minox absorption. Any potential useful information is being drowned out by the incessant dabble.

I agree. I was enjoying this thread until one individual in particular jumped in and started derailing the topic with his long-winded, nonsensical posts. Where is that "ignore" button at?

lilpauly
08-28-2013, 04:21 PM
You mean Dr Lee ******* :rolleyes:

I have been using it for 3 years once before sleep, no sides at all, also the perfect image before they add a new ingredient (Retinol) that makes it yellow and extremely sticky.

They wrote about it the following:-

ISSUE: Perfect Image Solutions recalled all lots of these topical hair regrowth products because they are deemed “unapproved new drugs” under FDA regulations, and may present potential health hazards.

Use of these topical products containing 15% and 10% Minoxidil have not been shown to be safe, and could pose a risk to the general public due to the possibility of systemic absorption. Skin abrasions or irritations, such as psoriasis or sunburn, could increase the systemic absorption of topically administered Minoxidil. Minoxidil 15% and 10% could cause low blood pressure, heart palpitations and associated cardiac symptoms. Azelaic acid contained in the topical products could make the skin where it is applied more sensitive to sunburn. Ketoconazole contained in the shampoo product could cause hair discoloration and abnormal hair texture, removal of the curl from permanently waved hair, itching, rash, skin irritation and dry skin. Salicylic acid contained in the shampoo could cause mild, temporary burning, itching, irritation, or stinging.

Check this out: http://www.fda.gov/safety/Recalls/ucm288505.htm

What makes me sick is how FDA states that and they are leaving Minoxidil Max alone, check out their website !!! Its unfair really!!! :confused: no man when dr lee got shut down dr parks made a version that ate hairlines, smelled like pai t thinner, dry tired eyes , heart burn, dizziness,ect. Only worse then dr parks chemical paint thinner was oral spiro . Spiro made my **** 2 inches smaller

lilpauly
08-28-2013, 04:22 PM
Hi man yes it was sticky...... I bought perfect images of off amazon cuz of the reviews . No good

clandestine
08-28-2013, 05:57 PM
Oral spiro or topical made your **** smaller, lilpauly?

SolarPowered Man
08-28-2013, 08:49 PM
Any idea when it would be wise to add Nizoral? I mean, can I do it the day after or should I wait a few days?

I remember reading it somewhere on this thread, 4 to 5 days after rolling.

HARIRI
08-28-2013, 09:29 PM
no man when dr lee got shut down dr parks made a version that ate hairlines, smelled like pai t thinner, dry tired eyes , heart burn, dizziness,ect. Only worse then dr parks chemical paint thinner was oral spiro . Spiro made my **** 2 inches smaller

2 inches WOW, Finasteride made my thing one inch smaller. So Spiro is worse. However I restored this inch after 2 months of quitting it. Damn Hair Loss :mad::mad::mad:

lilpauly, I'm thinking of getting a plain non sticky Minoxidil 10%. Some said in India there are 3 brands of pure minoxidil of 10% solution and one of them is (Minoxytop 10). How about you? Any idea Bro?

john2399
08-28-2013, 10:04 PM
2 inches WOW, Finasteride made my thing one inch smaller. So Spiro is worse. However I restored this inch after 2 months of quitting it. Damn Hair Loss :mad::mad::mad:

lilpauly, I'm thinking of getting a plain non sticky Minoxidil 10%. Some said in India there are 3 brands of pure minoxidil of 10% solution and one of them is (Minoxytop 10). How about you? Any idea Bro?

Dont spread that nonsense around. No way in hell finasteride made your shit smaller. Shit people say now.

hellouser
08-28-2013, 10:08 PM
Dont spread that nonsense around. No way in hell finasteride made your shit smaller. Shit people say now.

Testicular atrophy and weaker/softer erections are real side effects of DHT inhibitors.

john2399
08-28-2013, 10:12 PM
Testicular atrophy and weaker/softer erections are real side effects of DHT inhibitors.

Yeah in less then 2 percent in men. We get it, some guys can't take propecia but the drug works well, way to many people bash it without trying it.

chimera
08-28-2013, 10:30 PM
Way too many people say way too many pople bash it without even trying it...

Whatever guys, let's not start it again, let's keep the fin disscusions out of here...

stilltrying
08-29-2013, 12:22 AM
I don't use finasteride, but sometimes my erection is harder than usual and sometimes a bit softer. Now let's get back on topic? I think we're a little bit lost here.

gainspotter
08-29-2013, 01:37 AM
If you want to start talking about fin, use the other thousand threads that talk about fin, or the other thousand websites that talk about fin, everyone already knows what fin does, it has been said a thousand times. Let's talk about the relevant topic of this thread until it goes back to fin.

doke
08-29-2013, 02:03 AM
I think he means that, even if this has nothing to do with absorption, if minox absorption increases with the dermaroller (which it does), reducing minox percentage could be helpful for those with minox side effects

Many thanks chimera thats the message.

doke
08-29-2013, 02:10 AM
This thread has become a total anarchy, people taking this completely off-topic and not even trying to understand that the regrowth is meant to be due to wounding and recovery, not minox absorption. Any potential useful information is being drowned out by the incessant dabble.

Pentarou wounding on its own will not recover lost hair in male pattern loss period.
You also need something else either topical to assist and oral as we would all know by now that dermarolling is a cure and its not.
We are all at this forum to discuss mpb and what can help and what may work and i think myself that minoxidil plus dermaroller once a day and either copper peptides of even try osmotics fns to assist the healing of the scalp.

walrus
08-29-2013, 04:09 AM
This thread has become a total anarchy, people taking this completely off-topic and not even trying to understand that the regrowth is meant to be due to wounding and recovery, not minox absorption. Any potential useful information is being drowned out by the incessant dabble.

This. Some people just don't seem to be able (or want) to think about it in light of recent information and studies available to us.

doke
08-29-2013, 05:19 AM
some people are excited about nothing i should know been in the hair loss game for over 30years.
Seen these types of posts many times and in the end comes to nothing as i keep saying been dermarolling over two years now with different sizes of rollers and using many topicals and its no miracle treatment and there was some saying derma may damage hair so thats why you do not want to wound the scalp too much in other words go lightly.

doke
08-29-2013, 05:41 AM
Testicular atrophy and weaker/softer erections are real side effects of DHT inhibitors.

hahaha now iv heard everything by the way hell are you omg the laser helmet man?

DesperateOne
08-29-2013, 10:13 AM
It's been a while, are more people seeing results now?

hellouser
08-29-2013, 10:14 AM
It's been a while, are more people seeing results now?

Nothing on my end. I'm still shedding heavily for nearly 2 months.

DesperateOne
08-29-2013, 10:25 AM
Nothing on my end. I'm still shedding heavily for nearly 2 months.

Nothing on my end either, all I can say is that my skin got thicker and the pain is not so bad anymore. Looks like another bust, how would we be able to purchase that FGF-9? Would kane make it if we asked for it? I think you would be the ideal person to try it, hellouser.

hellouser
08-29-2013, 10:35 AM
Nothing on my end either, all I can say is that my skin got thicker and the pain is not so bad anymore. Looks like another bust, how would we be able to purchase that FGF-9? Would kane make it if we asked for it? I think you would be the ideal person to try it, hellouser.

No way man, I dont want to risk anything, lol. I think YOU would be the ideal person to try it. Haha.

evasive
08-29-2013, 01:29 PM
Hellouser and DesperateOne, have you guys been drawing blood per your dermarolling sessions?

If you haven't, maybe try a 2.0mm or 2.5mm and continue?

No pain no gain.

hellouser
08-29-2013, 01:32 PM
Hellouser and DesperateOne, have you guys been drawing blood per your dermarolling sessions?

If you haven't, maybe try a 2.0mm or 2.5mm and continue?

No pain no gain.

Here's a picture of a close up of my right temple after one of my dermarolling sessions:

http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l490/hellouser/dermarolling/13-08-14-right-temple.jpg

Chromeo
08-29-2013, 02:15 PM
We'll take that as a "yes". Hahaha.

LevonHelms
08-29-2013, 03:11 PM
It's been a while, are more people seeing results now?

I don't know if it's hairs that were just coming into a growth phase anyway or if they are a result of the roller, but I have some newbies coming in here and there. They look thick and healthy, and are definitely growing fast. But, it's just a few and not cosmetically significant..yet.;)

the_dude78
08-29-2013, 03:13 PM
I remember reading it somewhere on this thread, 4 to 5 days after rolling.

Thanks!

hellouser
08-29-2013, 03:16 PM
1000th Post.

Down with hair loss.