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youngin
05-26-2014, 07:20 AM
The effects of minoxidil just don't last forever, if they did, it would be a cure.

This is from Bernsteins site... After almost 3 years on Rogaine:http://www.bernsteinmedical.com/photo-galleries/9000/medications_patient-rur.jpg so obviously it lasts quite a long time for some people.

FearTheLoss
06-22-2014, 08:56 PM
Dr. Greco recommended that I use a derma roller. He says he believes it increases minox's effectiveness by 80%. I think I may drop rogaine and switch to 82m with a derma roller.

FearTheLoss
06-25-2014, 03:49 PM
Dr. Greco recommended that I use a derma roller. He says he believes it increases minox's effectiveness by 80%. I think I may drop rogaine and switch to 82m with a derma roller.

I should also state that Dr. Greco instructed me to put minox on, derma roll right after, and then put minox on again..rather than not use minox on the day you derma roll. Derma rolling helps to absorb the minox. He said to do this one night of the week.

Pentarou
06-25-2014, 04:44 PM
^ That is quite interesting actually. Anyone else had a Doctor recommend using dermarolling?

(And I would ask if anyone's still rolling, following the Indian journal study, but that won't be many of you.)

nliyan25
06-25-2014, 05:07 PM
^ That is quite interesting actually. Anyone else had a Doctor recommend using dermarolling?

(And I would ask if anyone's still rolling, following the Indian journal study, but that won't be many of you.)

I'd also consider using a dermaroller with RU, maybe? Maybe it would increase the RU's absorption.

hellouser
06-25-2014, 07:26 PM
I'd also consider using a dermaroller with RU, maybe? Maybe it would increase the RU's absorption.

Would also increase chances of it going systemic and thus, similar side effects as finasteride.

YoungSufferer217
06-27-2014, 01:36 AM
Hey Hellouser ,I know this is completely off subject with regards to this thread but I felt like either you or Desmond were the best people to ask about this.
I was thinking about why big Pharma companies or even research scientists in this field have only tried to inhibit the production of DHT and not sought to breakdown or destroy the chemical to an extent throughout the body ,is it even possible to break down C19H30O2.?has this been tried before ?is it dangerous to try this ?and I know I'm probably going to get hammered because over production of DHT is not the only cause of balding but I've arrived at a theory (though it might be flawed and highly so because I don't know as much as I'd think you do )if you could take time to try and answer this question ,it would be amazing thanks bro

FearTheLoss
07-13-2014, 09:21 PM
it's very important that you roll correctly. if you are bleeding after rolling than you are undoubtedly rolling too hard and causing trauma to the follicles that will have a negative impact..that's probably why some of you were not getting results.

fred970
07-13-2014, 11:04 PM
Some of us? No one has been getting results with this scam.

doke
07-14-2014, 02:27 AM
Hey Hellouser ,I know this is completely off subject with regards to this thread but I felt like either you or Desmond were the best people to ask about this.
I was thinking about why big Pharma companies or even research scientists in this field have only tried to inhibit the production of DHT and not sought to breakdown or destroy the chemical to an extent throughout the body ,is it even possible to break down C19H30O2.?has this been tried before ?is it dangerous to try this ?and I know I'm probably going to get hammered because over production of DHT is not the only cause of balding but I've arrived at a theory (though it might be flawed and highly so because I don't know as much as I'd think you do )if you could take time to try and answer this question ,it would be amazing thanks bro

Hi hell will problable tell you that you can block 100% dht with dutasteride but you would need to use 2.5mgs a day and that was the optimum dose that gave regrowth in the trials, although the cost would be a lot as 5 caps a day would be needed.
There would be more side effects in oral use and even then it may not bring back severe shiny areas of scalp.
Thats why topical use of dht inhibitors are needed flutamide in topical use was said to work but had to be in a gel formula that did not cause systemic side effects.

Notcoolanymore
08-11-2014, 11:21 PM
Some of us? No one has been getting results with this scam.

I just skimmed through the 500+ page thread about this "treatment" on the other site. With the exception of maybe one guy, I really didn't see many that could document(with pics) their success. That thread was just a bunch of claims, little evidence, censored insults, and no results. So many guys turned their heads into hamburger for nothing.

Pentarou
08-12-2014, 03:26 PM
Hey, it was worth a go. I think what we did wrong as a community was to not verify the legitimacy of the original journal study first. Something definitely wasn't right there.

FearTheLoss
08-12-2014, 09:55 PM
The problem is just that, "turning heads into hamburgers". Dermarolling must be done in a very specific way. In such a way where you do not go overboard and damage the follicle. The problem is many people are overzealous with their treatment and practically everyone I saw that was failing was rolling until they bled. This DAMAGES the follicle, so obviously it wouldn't be beneficial.

The problem with community trials is people don't follow strict and explicit guidelines to prove/disprove a treatment. Dermarolling has science backing it, and it works. I've been doing it, just like Dr. Greco instructed me to do, and it's been working for me, no doubt.

DO NOT cause abrasion, if you're bleeding, you're doing more harm than good.

FTL

Notcoolanymore
08-12-2014, 10:52 PM
I DM'd for about 6 months. I didn't go overboard with it. I sometimes had small specks of blood. I just didn't see much improvement. Maybe I needed to give it more time to work?

annonymous4a
08-20-2014, 06:36 AM
Hi guys, I want to try dermarolling my hair transplant strip scar. Is there a certain model I should get ? Is this the correct one ?

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IU55FES/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_4?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A3KV8IK6MMI7Z9

efedrez
08-20-2014, 08:32 AM
Hi guys, I want to try dermarolling my hair transplant strip scar. Is there a certain model I should get ? Is this the correct one ?

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IU55FES/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_4?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A3KV8IK6MMI7Z9

Hello, I have been using one from the same manufacturer but 1.5 mm instead of 0.5 with what I believe to be ok results, however many members will argue that its a waste of time (honestly opinions are all over the place but it might be worth to try).

However in you case I'm not sure what are you trying to accomplish, dermarolling the scar of a HT wont grow any hair there since there are no hair follicle to bring back to live. It could help improving the skin but not sure if it will make a big difference or if your are going for that at all

annonymous4a
08-20-2014, 08:47 AM
Hi, yeah that's what I'm trying to do , diminish the appearance of the scar with the dermaroller . I'll probably try 1.0 mm .

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0019BM58E/ref=s9_simh_gw_p121_d0_i2?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=1Z6TTTGB5VNV268RTBZM&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=1688200382&pf_rd_i=507846

Are there any side effects though ? Like if i exert too much force when rolling over the scar ..

efedrez
08-20-2014, 09:46 AM
Ok, I think it make sense to do that, I did a lot a research about the type and brand and end up buying exactly that one so you should be ok
As for sides, there are none, simple try not to dermaroll to hard since it won't make a different and you will cause pain
Good luck

gemplus
10-17-2014, 02:10 PM
Hello PrettyFly83,

Long time not read about your progress...
Are you still rolling?
If yes, how can you motivate yourself to withstand the pain?
Thanks a lot for an update!

Jazz1
10-17-2014, 03:15 PM
See my thread I derma rolled and I also got my hairdresser to cut my skin like wounding very slightly to draw blood. Alongside my regime here's the results:

https://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showthread.php?t=16582&highlight=

doke
10-18-2014, 03:18 AM
Hi Jazz it seems from your early pics your hairloss was not major ie: nw4 or more now thats what we need regrowth for,not to say your small bald spot on your crown regrew well and regrowth at hairline.
But if it was aa it might have regrown with any topical im sceptical with minoxidil for one I do not like it as the alchohol in it dries the hair and scalp and seems until you wash hair it looks like straw then you start all over again this daily cycle which gets boring and a chore.
Minox foam not too bad though but higher strengths have not proved much for many and there is the worry of side effects which could cause heart and blood pressure problems and migraines.
If you look at natural topicles you can see people regrow hair and with miconazole nitrate and tretinoin with hydrocortisone.
But we really need a once a day at night before bed treatment that can be washed out in the morning ready for the day product that would be a result.

Jazz1
10-18-2014, 03:27 AM
Hi Jazz it seems from your early pics your hairloss was not major ie: nw4 or more now thats what we need regrowth for,not to say your small bald spot on your crown regrew well and regrowth at hairline.
But if it was aa it might have regrown with any topical im sceptical with minoxidil for one I do not like it as the alchohol in it dries the hair and scalp and seems until you wash hair it looks like straw then you start all over again this daily cycle which gets boring and a chore.
Minox foam not too bad though but higher strengths have not proved much for many and there is the worry of side effects which could cause heart and blood pressure problems and migraines.
If you look at natural topicles you can see people regrow hair and with miconazole nitrate and tretinoin with hydrocortisone.
But we really need a once a day at night before bed treatment that can be washed out in the morning ready for the day product that would be a result.

Problem is I never took any pictures before AA to show my weak hairline, I'm just giving my advice you can regrow the hairline back. My hairline was very weak especially around the right side, il check my phone later I'm sure I have some before hand pictures somewhere :).

I do understand if the follicles are dead for 5 years it may not be possible :).

BoSox
10-18-2014, 08:07 AM
Problem is I never took any pictures before AA to show my weak hairline, I'm just giving my advice you can regrow the hairline back. My hairline was very weak especially around the right side, il check my phone later I'm sure I have some before hand pictures somewhere :).

I do understand if the follicles are dead for 5 years it may not be possible :).

Did you achieve this by just using Dermaroller? I'm new to this device, and want to give it a try. Just mainly on my hair line.. the corners are starting to get so thin. I need help.

blondetooth
11-06-2014, 09:21 AM
I think 7-10 day interval times with s 1.5mm roller is best. It gives the head enough time to heal. Also after rolling let it dry and go to sleep. The blood dries ans stimulates the folicles even more. Leaving it to heal overnight naturally without introducing any shower chemicals. Finestride is good. Minoxidil is not as great because it causes the hairs to become dependent and not naturally strong. Minoxidil is a nasty chemical that causes heart problems, wrinkles, and ugliness.

fred970
11-06-2014, 09:34 AM
I think 7-10 day interval times with s 1.5mm roller is best. It gives the head enough time to heal. Also after rolling let it dry and go to sleep. The blood dries ans stimulates the folicles even more. Leaving it to heal overnight naturally without introducing any shower chemicals. Finestride is good. Minoxidil is not as great because it causes the hairs to become dependent and not naturally strong. Minoxidil is a nasty chemical that causes heart problems, wrinkles, and ugliness.

Everything in this post is wrong. Just look at these dermaroller topics, how they have been buried deep down in every single hair loss forum. It won't do heck for male pattern baldness, we know that for a fact now.

Of course your hair will be dependent on minoxidil, you can't have your cake and eat it too. If you don't use FDA approved treatments, then say goodbye to your hair.

And minoxidil doesn't cause heart problems, it can be a potential side-effect but come on, from a 5% solution you put on your scalp? Please! About minoxidil giving wrinkles and causing "ugliness". Now a medication can cause ugliness!

As I always say, provide evidence or just don't post at all. Minoxidil has never been proven to cause wrinkles and you can't even argue with that.

youngin
11-06-2014, 03:24 PM
As always Fred, you are the one who spouts out the same thing without doing any research. "THAT'S NOT TRUE, SHOW THE STUDIES". Now I am positive after seeing studies you will still argue about something like "WELL THAT DOESN'T SAY WRINKLES" with your non-correlative brain. But just for the record...


And minoxidil doesn't cause heart problems, it can be a potential side-effect but come on, from a 5% solution you put on your scalp? Please!
Yes heart effects from a drug put on your scalp. GASP!
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1386573/



About minoxidil giving wrinkles and causing "ugliness". Now a medication can cause ugliness!
As I always say, provide evidence or just don't post at all. Minoxidil has never been proven to cause wrinkles and you can't even argue with that.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2826267
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1546087
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7672621
..and more and more

"Stop using this medication and tell your doctor immediately if any of these unlikely but serious side effects occur: unwanted facial/body hair, dizziness, fast/irregular heartbeat, fainting, chest pain, swelling of hands/feet, unusual weight gain, tiredness, difficulty breathing especially when lying down."

Alot of the side effects could be seen as "ugliness". Now are you going to say that the company who sells the product puts false statements in their literature to discourage sales?

blondetooth
11-06-2014, 03:33 PM
Thanks for your excellent research youngin. Minoxidil is not a lightweight drug. Fin > minox. Thats why as soon as my fin gets here I will be doing the dermaroller with fin not minox.

fred970
11-06-2014, 04:01 PM
You need to read the definition of side-effect again. These are side-effects! They occur in a very small percentage of people, 99% of people do just fine on minoxidil, 1% will get rashes or an allergic reaction.

For the rest: that doesn't say wrinkles. Still no evidence anywhere, people need to stop perpetuating these speculations about minoxidil. Don't scare the newbies away from treatments. And put a definitive end to this dermarolling joke.

blondetooth
11-06-2014, 04:22 PM
There is plenty of evidence. Lots of forum posters say they get weird wrinkles now. Did you even read those articles?

As for heart problems, my dad used rogaine back in the day before his hair transplant and it hospitalized him/ almost died from it! He has high blood pressure and permanent heart problems from that nasty stuff he used.

KO1
11-06-2014, 04:54 PM
I think dermarolling is an excellent idea, however, I feel it will not go far enough. Wounding grows hair, we know that, it doesn't grow enough hair to be cosmetically significant, the question is really of finding the topical compounds that are going to tickle the right chemical pathways....

Pentarou
11-06-2014, 07:04 PM
I think dermarolling is an excellent idea, however, I feel it will not go far enough. Wounding grows hair, we know that, it doesn't grow enough hair to be cosmetically significant, the question is really of finding the topical compounds that are going to tickle the right chemical pathways....
I agree with the general sentiment. There's definitely potential in rolling, but we need a as-yet unknown special ingredient to kick it into growth overdrive.

fred970
11-07-2014, 12:13 AM
There is plenty of evidence. Lots of forum posters say they get weird wrinkles now. Did you even read those articles?

Oh excuse me! Random people on the internet say they got wrinkles from minoxidil and that counts as evidence to you?

All people who say this read about minoxidil giving wrinkles before saying it, they started to see things. Good illustration of the placebo effect.

Ted
11-07-2014, 08:58 AM
I have to agree with fred on this one. It is really hard to find before and after pictures of people getting wrinkles from minox, and in the hair loss world we all know what that means.

fred970
11-07-2014, 09:17 AM
I have to agree with fred on this one. It is really hard to find before and after pictures of people getting wrinkles from minox, and in the hair loss world we all know what that means.

Thank you! As saying goes: "pictures or it never happened", we have countless before/after pictures with FDA approved treatments but not even one on the entire internet showing wrinkles from minoxidil. So the bottom line is: this never happened to anyone.

35YrsAfter
11-10-2014, 02:22 PM
Thank you! As saying goes: "pictures or it never happened", we have countless before/after pictures with FDA approved treatments but not even one on the entire internet showing wrinkles from minoxidil. So the bottom line is: this never happened to anyone.

Wrinkles from using minoxidil is a bunch of BS.

35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office - forhair.com - Cole Hair Transplant, 1045 Powers Place, Alpharetta, Georgia 30009 - Phone 678-566-1011 - email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
The contents of my posts are my opinions and not medical advice
Please feel free to call or email me with any questions. Ask for Chuck

lilpauly
11-11-2014, 11:41 AM
no man its a known side effect.
Wrinkles from using minoxidil is a bunch of BS.

35YrsAfter also posts as CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office - forhair.com - Cole Hair Transplant, 1045 Powers Place, Alpharetta, Georgia 30009 - Phone 678-566-1011 - email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
The contents of my posts are my opinions and not medical advice
Please feel free to call or email me with any questions. Ask for Chuck

blondetooth
11-11-2014, 02:12 PM
Oh excuse me! Random people on the internet say they got wrinkles from minoxidil and that counts as evidence to you?

All people who say this read about minoxidil giving wrinkles before saying it, they started to see things. Good illustration of the placebo effect.

There are pictures actually. Before and after photos a few months apart. People have documented proof of it that is clearly visible. Also hundreds of complaints and comments about it. Do a Google search and you will see I'm right. Your blind arrogance is sad.

Also there is a graph around here showing minoxidil only produces temporary results and then it useless. I would never use it, use fin for stability.

My dad was hospitalized and has permanent heart problem's from minoxidil. They were a few weeks after his first application. Not fun.

Use a dermaroller but stay away from temporary cover up chemicals that screw up your head.

Ted
11-11-2014, 04:32 PM
There are pictures actually. Before and after photos a few months apart. People have documented proof of it that is clearly visible. Also hundreds of complaints and comments about it. Do a Google search and you will see I'm right. Your blind arrogance is sad.

Also there is a graph around here showing minoxidil only produces temporary results and then it useless. I would never use it, use fin for stability.

My dad was hospitalized and has permanent heart problem's from minoxidil. They were a few weeks after his first application. Not fun.

Use a dermaroller but stay away from temporary cover up chemicals that screw up your head.
Can you please link us to these pictures? I have googled but couldn't find any. I found this though http://www.realself.com/question/minoxidil-wrinkles

I also found this:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4039155/



Minoxidil may suppress androgen receptor-related functions
Cheng-Lung Hsu,1 Jai-Shin Liu,1,3 An-Chi Lin,1 Chih-Hsun Yang,2 Wen-Hung Chung,2 and Wen-Guey Wu3
Author information ? Article notes ? Copyright and License information ?
Go to:
Abstract
Although minoxidil has been used for more than two decades to treat androgenetic alopecia (AGA), an androgen-androgen receptor (AR) pathway-dominant disease, its precise mechanism of action remains elusive. We hypothesized that minoxidil may influence the AR or its downstream signaling. These tests revealed that minoxidil suppressed AR-related functions, decreasing AR transcriptional activity in reporter assays, reducing expression of AR targets at the protein level, and suppressing AR-positive LNCaP cell growth. Dissecting the underlying mechanisms, we found that minoxidil interfered with AR-peptide, AR-coregulator, and AR N/C-terminal interactions, as well as AR protein stability. Furthermore, a crystallographic analysis using the AR ligand-binding domain (LBD) revealed direct binding of minoxidil to the AR in a minoxidil-AR-LBD co-crystal model, and surface plasmon resonance assays demonstrated that minoxidil directly bound the AR with a Kd value of 2.6 ?M. Minoxidil also suppressed AR-responsive reporter activity and decreased AR protein stability in human hair dermal papilla cells. The current findings provide evidence that minoxidil could be used to treat both cancer and age-related disease, and open a new avenue for applications of minoxidil in treating androgen-AR pathway-related diseases.

blondetooth
11-11-2014, 06:26 PM
Please people, putting chemicals on your scalp is not healthy.

Don't be one of those people that only believes what a doctor tells them, or only believes what they read on the back of the medicine box.

blondetooth
11-12-2014, 05:47 AM
Rogaine: After 48 weeks you are basically baseline....

Propecia works though. Have a good day.

Here is your google search link for Rogaine wrinkles, hundreds of thousands people complaining, dark bags under eyes etc.... https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#safe=off&q=rogaine%20wrinkles Scary.

http://img.medscape.com/fullsize/migrated/470/297/bjd470297.fig1a.jpg

http://mathspig.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/1-hair-growth-graph.gif

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h1/mcalandria/mean_change_crossover_data_chart.gif

Ted
11-12-2014, 08:01 AM
I still can't find any before and after pictures of people getting wrinkles from minox. Please link the pictures you are talking about.

I read that in the study that showed the first graph you posted they stopped using minox after 96 weeks. So it looks like after 96 weeks you are still quite a lot better of with minox than without. The question though is for how long.

gainspotter
11-12-2014, 08:16 AM
Of course you're gonna get wrinkles from minox. If you use it then you're going bald. Going bald is stressful. Stress causes wrinkles.

fred970
11-12-2014, 08:20 AM
Don't be one of those people that only believes what a doctor tells them, or only believes what they read on the back of the medicine box.

Who are we supposed to believe then? You?!

And another one! Stress causes wrinkles now. First, define stress, secondly, stop writing complete nonsense.

There are no before/after pictures. Therefore, there is no evidence. Therefore, case closed.

I must laugh at the 25 years old men who've used minoxidil for 2 years and say it gave them wrinkles.

Hey, dude, you're ageing, we all are, of course you're going to get some wrinkles at that age. Get over it and stop blaming the minoxidil.

And to people who say that this is a known side-effect, they can scan the notice of Rogaine and show us where it's written in the side-effects. We're waiting.

asianguy
04-23-2015, 09:37 AM
Are there any benefits to dermarolling without topicals?

Also will dermarolling help reduce the visibility of FUE donor punch scars?

FFS
04-27-2015, 07:25 AM
I know the studies suggest dermarolling til you bleed everywhere but will it be beneficial to use a derma roller daily at 1.5mm but not drawing blood and immediately applying RU afterwards, to enhance absorption of RU?

fred970
04-28-2015, 01:24 AM
I know the studies suggest dermarolling til you bleed everywhere but will it be beneficial to use a derma roller daily at 1.5mm but not drawing blood and immediately applying RU afterwards, to enhance absorption of RU?

Open your eyes. This doesn't work at all and has never worked for anybody.

youngin
04-28-2015, 08:51 AM
Open your eyes. This doesn't work at all and has never worked for anybody.

Worked pretty incredibly for PrettyFly83 combined with Minox. I have never seen a response from Minox alone like he had in the 15 years I've been looking at these message boards. The science behind it as good as well. Not everyone reacts the same. I would say give it a go for a few months and see what happens.

NOhairNOlife
04-28-2015, 08:52 PM
I think I'm gonna stop derma-rolling. I did it for 4 months , once a week then waiting 24 hours to apply minoxidol, but I don't believe it did anything for me. But it sure did hurt like hell.

I'm also taking fin 1mg daily, saw palmetto, omega3, biotin and vitamin d3

Notcoolanymore
04-28-2015, 09:39 PM
I threw in the towel on this after about 6 months.

fred970
04-29-2015, 09:08 AM
I think I'm gonna stop derma-rolling. I did it for 4 months , once a week then waiting 24 hours to apply minoxidol

It's because you should have used manixadul.

Seriously though, we have no consistent results.

So I call BS on this "treatment".

NOhairNOlife
04-29-2015, 12:02 PM
It's because you should have used manixadul.

Seriously though, we have no consistent results.

So I call BS on this "treatment".

The only guy that got good results was that fly83 guy it seems

Vic
06-29-2015, 03:28 PM
I read some people had hairs darker then vellus but not fully pigmented growing from this treatment. Wondering if those hairs cycled into terminal hairs? Thanks

Vic
09-13-2015, 10:29 AM
Hey all my Balding Brothers and Sister

As promised here are my 3 month update photo's which I'm posting for all to gauge the effectiveness of this treatment.

To summarize, I haven't changed anything in my regime from my first posts on page 6-8 of this thread as I didnt want to blur any results by changing techniques. My understanding was the original purpose of this thread by Hellouser was either to replicate the study or undertake a regime with slight variations on the technique. I'm planning to stick with my regime until I see someone yield better results with theirs. In no way am I saying mine was better than the studies, I had just been doing it for 2 months so thought to carry on.

Ive tried to match close ups over various area's of my shiny NW6 head to compare each area individually. Sorry if they are not exactly correctly positioned as these were all taken with an Galaxy SIII but I think they show enough detail.

Would like to hear everyone views on them, whether there has been any progress. Be gentle with your comments please, this is my head after all:o

For those using this technique, please please please keep going, it's only been 1 month since this thread started and the only way we can verify or disprove the study is with multiple cases. Close ups before and during are the only way to see if anything is happening as its VERY slow in my case so please take baseline pictures.

Remember to click ZOOM button twice to get full size, here we go:
Front Start of Treatment
http://s1292.photobucket.com/user/PrettyFly83/media/Derma%20Roller%20and%20Minox/2013-05-20094342_zpsb0ced7ac.jpg.html?sort=3&o=9
Front 3 Months into Treatment:
http://s1292.photobucket.com/user/PrettyFly83/media/Derma%20Roller%20and%20Minox/2013-08-30082555_zpsc1ab2ba5.jpg.html?sort=3&o=1

Top: Start of Treatment
http://s1292.photobucket.com/user/PrettyFly83/media/Derma%20Roller%20and%20Minox/2013-05-14163009_zpsd965f535.jpg.html?sort=3&o=10
Top: 3 Months into Treatment
http://s1292.photobucket.com/user/PrettyFly83/media/Derma%20Roller%20and%20Minox/2013-08-18092448_zps173028a1.jpg.html?sort=3&o=3

Crown: Start of Treatment
http://s1292.photobucket.com/user/PrettyFly83/media/Derma%20Roller%20and%20Minox/2013-05-22092731_zpsb129f54a.jpg.html?sort=3&o=8
Crown: 3 Months into Treatment
http://s1292.photobucket.com/user/PrettyFly83/media/Derma%20Roller%20and%20Minox/2013-08-18092438_zps8252c1b3.jpg.html?sort=3&o=4

Back: Start of Treatment
http://s1292.photobucket.com/user/PrettyFly83/media/Derma%20Roller%20and%20Minox/2013-05-12190720_zpse012e8d8.jpg.html?sort=3&o=11
Back: 3 Months into Treatment
http://s1292.photobucket.com/user/PrettyFly83/media/Derma%20Roller%20and%20Minox/2013-08-18092438_zps8252c1b3.jpg.html?sort=3&o=4

Left Temple: 1 Month into Treatment
http://s1292.photobucket.com/user/PrettyFly83/media/Derma%20Roller%20and%20Minox/2013-06-27193151_zps21f48a7c.jpg.html?sort=3&o=7
Left Temple: 3 Months into Treatment
http://s1292.photobucket.com/user/PrettyFly83/media/Derma%20Roller%20and%20Minox/2013-08-30102218_zps340d03d6.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0

Right Temple: 1 Month into Treatment
http://s1292.photobucket.com/user/PrettyFly83/media/Derma%20Roller%20and%20Minox/2013-06-27193200_zps5db31454.jpg.html?sort=3&o=6
Right Temple: 3 Months into Treatment
http://s1292.photobucket.com/user/PrettyFly83/media/Derma%20Roller%20and%20Minox/2013-08-29130926_zps62c4302c.jpg.html?sort=3&o=2
I only took temple shots at 1 month into treatment.

Sorry its so many.

My view: Regrowth is still happening but more slowly now, I think Im seeing new very fine hairs sprouting from my slick temples but can't be sure as the old photo's go blurry there. Older regrowth seems to be thickening but is VERY slow. There are thousand of black dots just below the skin and I'm hoping those are hairs resting.

Hi prettyfly. I was wondering if the growth you experienced was maintained after stopping(if you ever stopped) and if you experienced more growth? I'm almost at 4 months and have had some promising results. 2 months in, my hair got darker, now at 4 months in I'm seeing darker then peach fuzz hairs growing so low on my forehead, I had to look at old pictures just to see if I ever had a hairline that low.

I've read thru many of your posts but you seem to have stopped posting. Hope you grew it all back and lived happily ever after!! Lol. I'd just like to know if you experienced darker then peach fuzz hairs growing in the beginning which eventually turned terminal? Or Did the hair you grew back come in terminal from the get go?

Did those dots you thought were hairs just resting grow? I have a TON of those too.

warner8
09-13-2015, 10:50 AM
Hi Vic, I just started derma rolling last week with a 0.5 mm advice, since i keep my hair very low. do you roll every day, or EOD. The first time I did it, it left my scalp really sore which means i over did it, but the 2nd and third time, i did not notice any soreness.

are you using it in conjunction with minox? about how long did you begin to see a difference?



Hi prettyfly. I was wondering if the growth you experienced was maintained after stopping(if you ever stopped) and if you experienced more growth? I'm almost at 4 months and have had some promising results. 2 months in, my hair got darker, now at 4 months in I'm seeing darker then peach fuzz hairs growing so low on my forehead, I had to look at old pictures just to see if I ever had a hairline that low.

I've read thru many of your posts but you seem to have stopped posting. Hope you grew it all back and lived happily ever after!! Lol. I'd just like to know if you experienced darker then peach fuzz hairs growing in the beginning which eventually turned terminal? Or Did the hair you grew back come in terminal from the get go?

Did those dots you thought were hairs just resting grow? I have a TON of those too.

Vic
09-13-2015, 11:04 AM
Hi Vic, I just started derma rolling last week with a 0.5 mm advice, since i keep my hair very low. do you roll every day, or EOD. The first time I did it, it left my scalp really sore which means i over did it, but the 2nd and third time, i did not notice any soreness.

are you using it in conjunction with minox? about how long did you begin to see a difference?

I roll exactly as directed in the study with a 1.5mm roller once a week and skip minox for 24hrs after rolling. If you are rolling with a .05mm roller, you are not getting anywhere near the hair follicles. You are waisting your time unless you are trying to eliminate wrinkles on your scalp. .05mm is used for face wrinkles. Peach fuzz follicles are 1.5 to 2 mm below the skin. Darker hairs are 3mm to 4mm below the skin. You need to choose the right derma roller for what you're trying to treat.
I've posted my 3 month results. You can view pics of progress and everything I'm doing.

warner8
09-13-2015, 11:18 AM
really? my scalp is buzzed off bald. i thought 0.5 would be sufficient.

Keeper
09-13-2015, 11:40 AM
Hey Vic, where can I find you photos of the results ?

Vic
09-13-2015, 11:40 AM
really? my scalp is buzzed off bald. i thought 0.5 would be sufficient.

My hair is buzzed too but that doesn't make my skin any thicker or thinner.

Vic
09-13-2015, 11:42 AM
Hey Vic, where can I find you photos of the results ?

Here

https://www.baldtruthtalk.com/threads/21181-My-3-month-Results?highlight=

warner8
09-13-2015, 11:44 AM
ok, looks like i gotta go buy another then. where did you get your roller from online?

also, why would you apply the minox 24 hrs after rolling; i thought the point was to allow the minox to seep in while the holes are open, wouldn't a healing reaction take place to plug the holes within the 24 hrs


My hair is buzzed too but that doesn't make my skin any thicker or thinner.

Vic
09-13-2015, 11:52 AM
ok, looks like i gotta go buy another then. where did you get your roller from online?

also, why would you apply the minox 24 hrs after rolling; i thought the point was to allow the minox to seep in while the holes are open, wouldn't a healing reaction take place to plug the holes within the 24 hrs

The point of this study wasn't to increase minox absorption. Some people do use smaller rollers to increase absorption but that can lead to some serious health issues in some because minox can get into your bloodstream and cause havoc.

The point of this study was to stimulate growth factors. Minox is used to keep the hair follicles in a growing phase so when the growth factors are triggered with the use of a dermaroller, they attach to the hair follicles which are trying to grow instead of turning into collagen.

PrettyFly83
09-14-2015, 07:08 AM
Hi prettyfly. I was wondering if the growth you experienced was maintained after stopping(if you ever stopped) and if you experienced more growth? I'm almost at 4 months and have had some promising results. 2 months in, my hair got darker, now at 4 months in I'm seeing darker then peach fuzz hairs growing so low on my forehead, I had to look at old pictures just to see if I ever had a hairline that low.

I've read thru many of your posts but you seem to have stopped posting. Hope you grew it all back and lived happily ever after!! Lol. I'd just like to know if you experienced darker then peach fuzz hairs growing in the beginning which eventually turned terminal? Or Did the hair you grew back come in terminal from the get go?

Did those dots you thought were hairs just resting grow? I have a TON of those too.

Hi Vic

Hair still holding steady but I noticed a plateau in regrowth earlier in year. Took a break from rolling for a few months and restarted end of July to try kickstart another regrowth. Ive definitely maintained and am confident I am seeing some slow regrowth again.

I have zoomed and centered the pictures on my worst area's. Pictures were the closest I could find in terms of angles and lighting so dates are not exactly 2.5years, more like 2 years but its been 2.5 since I started rolling. These areas were pretty much slick bald when I started.

You can see date stamps at the top of images.

4155741558

Routine still mostly same as original study:


1.5mm Roller
Weekly rolling, sometime less
5-10min, couple spots of blood but nothing crazy
Minox every day including rolling days (Ive always done this)
Supplements daily: MSM 1000 mg, Vit C 1000mg, Zinc 15mg
Keto Shampoo 1-2 x weekly


I posted a detailed summary last year:

https://www.baldtruthtalk.com/threads/13420-Dermarolling-Community-Trial?p=174515&highlight=#post174515

For those who are new here is the original study and follow up study's that started the whole thing:

A randomized evaluator blinded study of effect of microneedling in androgenetic alopecia: A pilot study:
http://www.ijtrichology.com/article.asp?issn=0974-7753;year=2013;volume=5;issue=1;spage=6;epage=11;a ulast=Dhurat

Response to microneedling treatment in men with androgenetic alopecia who failed to respond to conventional therapy:

http://www.e-ijd.org/article.asp?issn=0019-5154;year=2015;volume=60;issue=3;spage=260;epage=2 63;aulast=Dhurat

Vic
09-14-2015, 08:00 AM
Thanks For the reply Prettyfly! Glad to hear the hair is holding strong.

I read you had darker then peach fuzz growth in the beginning, did those hairs cycle into terminal? Or did the terminal hair growth you experience come in terminal from the get go?
Thanks!!

barfacan
09-14-2015, 09:21 PM
So you went from a slick NW6 to having hair again? Just with rolling+minox?? Wow.

PrettyFly83
09-15-2015, 01:57 AM
Thanks For the reply Prettyfly! Glad to hear the hair is holding strong.

I read you had darker then peach fuzz growth in the beginning, did those hairs cycle into terminal? Or did the terminal hair growth you experience come in terminal from the get go?
Thanks!!

Hi Vic

Yes, they started out super fine and very slowly started increasing in diameter and gaining pigment. You can see in my latest photo's the finer hairs from the first photo grew thicker, they still aren't at 100% terminal thickness yet but they continue to increase month by month. I still shed quite a lot but I think it is these finer hairs shedding, then regrowing a bit stronger, then repeat a few months later.


So you went from a slick NW6 to having hair again? Just with rolling+minox?? Wow.

Pretty much, NW5A too NW2.5V (I'm currently in between NW2 and 3V). I wasn't completely slick but definitely just above my crown and temples. The rest was really fine vellus which never grew more than a cm and was aggressively thinning further.

warner8
09-15-2015, 08:11 AM
hi prettyfly, did you follow the instructions like the study, using a 1.5 derma roller once a week for 10-15 min till the scalp was slightly red and irritated?

Also, what do you believe caused the regrowth from derma rolling; is it the increase in new blood vessels and growth factors from healing process?





Hi Vic

Yes, they started out super fine and very slowly started increasing in diameter and gaining pigment. You can see in my latest photo's the finer hairs from the first photo grew thicker, they still aren't at 100% terminal thickness yet but they continue to increase month by month. I still shed quite a lot but I think it is these finer hairs shedding, then regrowing a bit stronger, then repeat a few months later.



Pretty much, NW5A too NW2.5V (I'm currently in between NW2 and 3V). I wasn't completely slick but definitely just above my crown and temples. The rest was really fine vellus which never grew more than a cm and was aggressively thinning further.

fred970
09-15-2015, 08:17 AM
Excellent minoxidil results and you just let your hair grow. Nothing unusual here. Dermarolling doesn't work. Period.

Vic
09-15-2015, 09:11 AM
No one asked for your opinion Fred. If we have questions on hair transplants we'll ask you. Then and only then will your opinion matter.

Vic
09-15-2015, 09:13 AM
That's great news PrettyFly. Thanks for taking the time to answer our questions.

fred970
09-15-2015, 02:25 PM
No one asked for your opinion Fred. If we have questions on hair transplants we'll ask you. Then and only then will your opinion matter.

I have used minoxidil and I went from what he had to a more than decent head of hair too.

So I think I have some experience about this. These are rare stellar minoxidil results but they do happen.

Don't get your hopes up. PrettyFly will return to baseline in a year or so.

As if dermarolling would work on only 1 person out of thousands who tried it. Have some common sense here.

PrettyFly83
09-15-2015, 11:55 PM
I have used minoxidil and I went from what he had to a more than decent head of hair too.

So I think I have some experience about this. These are rare stellar minoxidil results but they do happen.

Don't get your hopes up. PrettyFly will return to baseline in a year or so.


As if dermarolling would work on only 1 person out of thousands who tried it. Have some common sense here.

Well, for my sake and others who are willing to try something different, I hope to be back in a year (again) to prove you wrong - I'm sure you said this last year actually and here I am showing a stronger case!

Ive been on Minox for 2.5 years now with no signs of regression. Yes I have had some plateau's but am currently experiencing another regrowth session and the only addition was I started rolling again after a few months break. This, along with the questions directed at myself, is my reasoning for posting in this thread again.

If you don't want to try the technique, that's your decision but let other members come to their own conclusions. This is my case and I have put it on the forum for the benefit of the community in the hopes that others can experience the success I've had.

Fly Out.

youngin
09-16-2015, 07:55 PM
I have used minoxidil and I went from what he had to a more than decent head of hair too.

So I think I have some experience about this. These are rare stellar minoxidil results but they do happen.

Don't get your hopes up. PrettyFly will return to baseline in a year or so.

As if dermarolling would work on only 1 person out of thousands who tried it. Have some common sense here.

You are the most negative asshole on this forum. A guy shows up to update on one of THE BEST legit results of all time on any forum I've ever seen and you're here to be a dick as usual. What a contribution you are to this forum. This is exactly why no one will find a cure.

youngin
09-16-2015, 07:56 PM
Well, for my sake and others who are willing to try something different, I hope to be back in a year (again) to prove you wrong - I'm sure you said this last year actually and here I am showing a stronger case!

Ive been on Minox for 2.5 years now with no signs of regression. Yes I have had some plateau's but am currently experiencing another regrowth session and the only addition was I started rolling again after a few months break. This, along with the questions directed at myself, is my reasoning for posting in this thread again.

If you don't want to try the technique, that's your decision but let other members come to their own conclusions. This is my case and I have put it on the forum for the benefit of the community in the hopes that others can experience the success I've had.

Fly Out.

I appreciate you reporting in. Your case has inspired hope for me.

fred970
09-17-2015, 03:56 AM
You are the most negative asshole on this forum. A guy shows up to update on one of THE BEST legit results of all time on any forum I've ever seen and you're here to be a dick as usual. What a contribution you are to this forum. This is exactly why no one will find a cure.

I understand you want to believe. But it's nothing more than false hope. It's all minoxidil here.

If he didn't use any minoxidil, I would have been impressed. But now how do you know if dermarolling did anything?

My minoxidil results were really similar to his, that's why I think there's nothing to get excited about.

Hicks
09-17-2015, 06:39 PM
I understand you want to believe. But it's nothing more than false hope. It's all minoxidil here.

If he didn't use any minoxidil, I would have been impressed. But now how do you know if dermarolling did anything?

My minoxidil results were really similar to his, that's why I think there's nothing to get excited about.

Ever hear the saying "if you keep talking then you'll tell everyone how stupid you really are"?

Thanks for the update fly.

fred970
09-17-2015, 06:56 PM
Ever hear the saying "if you keep talking then you'll tell everyone how stupid you really are"?

Thanks for the update fly.

233 pages for this. Just like this other topic where so many people fought endlessly: https://www.baldtruthtalk.com/threads/9777-Hidden-Gem-MSM-Vit-C-TRX2-a-fin-alternative

In the end, it's all wind. Nothing. PrettyFly will return to baseline in a year, but he won't come back to tell us he was wrong.

If this worked, we would have countless successful cases. 233 pages in this topic and we have... one. How convincing.

HMDWN
11-30-2015, 05:52 PM
Hi people, long time lurker and have read many-many topic discussions.
BTW I'm 58 and always had an insane thick head of hair...but with age things are changing quick!
I'd like to bump this Dermarolling thread to ask two legitimate questions then, I'll be moving over to the RU5881 and Minoxidil threads for more questions.
So, with someone as my self that still has a considerable amount of hair on top yet, when shampooing I can now feel the tell tail horseshoe MPB pattern with my fingers. Also when exiting the shower I can see my scalp peeking through more and more vs lets say last year.
My dermaroller questions are...
1) wouldn't rolling a 1-1.5 mm roller over your scalp maybe damage existing hair follicles by harpooning them?
2) isn't there a possibility the roller needles cutting into and or shredding the existing hair?
Thanks to be here and for any advice and comments.

Vic
11-30-2015, 07:13 PM
Peach fuzz is 1.5 to 2mm below the skin. Terminal hairs are 3-4mm below the skin. We might be playing Russian Rulette with the peach fuzz but the rest are safe.

HMDWN
12-01-2015, 12:27 PM
Peach fuzz is 1.5 to 2mm below the skin. Terminal hairs are 3-4mm below the skin. We might be playing Russian Rulette with the peach fuzz but the rest are safe.
Thank you for that info!

TheKingofFighters
12-04-2015, 03:37 AM
im using a dermapen bought from Ebay and it's very cheap. spills more blood then a roller.

HMDWN
12-04-2015, 12:54 PM
im using a dermapen bought from Ebay and it's very cheap. spills more blood then a roller.
Could "more bleeding" really be beneficial?
I somewhat understand the thoughts behind "wounding" the 'skin itself' but not how that affects the actual dormant hair follicle has me scratching my head.
Back to my original dermaroller question and what info I've further read...a .02 mm roller needle is all that's needed to greatly help topicals get to where they need to go. I still ask myself this rolling of needles over a head with hair must cause some damage to the hair outside the head by maybe cutting or stabbing through the hair shaft. I'm debating if 'on my head' that process would actually cause more harm to the existing hairs on my head vs the positive thoughts of allowing a topical to get to the hair follicle itself.
Do I want a bloody head, well maybe if I had viable scars on a bald head to where collegian may over time lessen the scars themselves. Do I feel bleeding your scalp helping to "grow hair"...I'm just not digesting that, is there scientific proof it infact does?

HMDWN
12-04-2015, 12:54 PM
im using a dermapen bought from Ebay and it's very cheap. spills more blood then a roller.
Could "more bleeding" really be beneficial?
I somewhat understand the thoughts behind "wounding" the 'skin itself' but not how that affects the actual dormant hair follicle has me scratching my head.
Back to my original dermaroller question and what info I've further read...a .02 mm roller needle is all that's needed to greatly help topicals get to where they need to go. I still ask myself this rolling of needles over a head with hair must cause some damage to the hair outside the head by maybe cutting or stabbing through the hair shaft. I'm debating if 'on my head' that process would actually cause more harm to the existing hairs on my head vs the positive thoughts of allowing a topical to get to the hair follicle itself.
Do I want a bloody head, well maybe if I had viable scars on a bald head to where collegian may over time lessen the scars themselves. Do I feel bleeding your scalp helps to "grow hair"...I'm just not digesting that, is there scientific proof it infact does?

Vic
12-04-2015, 01:54 PM
Could "more bleeding" really be beneficial?
I somewhat understand the thoughts behind "wounding" the 'skin itself' but not how that affects the actual dormant hair follicle has me scratching my head.
Back to my original dermaroller question and what info I've further read...a .02 mm roller needle is all that's needed to greatly help topicals get to where they need to go. I still ask myself this rolling of needles over a head with hair must cause some damage to the hair outside the head by maybe cutting or stabbing through the hair shaft. I'm debating if 'on my head' that process would actually cause more harm to the existing hairs on my head vs the positive thoughts of allowing a topical to get to the hair follicle itself.
Do I want a bloody head, well maybe if I had viable scars on a bald head to where collegian may over time lessen the scars themselves. Do I feel bleeding your scalp helps to "grow hair"...I'm just not digesting that, is there scientific proof it infact does?


You might want to take time to read the study so you understand what this is all about. The point of rolling with a 1.5 isn't to increase the absorption of topicals. It's to generate growth factors near the follicles. Wounding triggers growth factors, you use rogaine to keep all follicles in growing phase so when growth factors are triggered, they attach to the hair follicle instead of becoming collegian.

Herbaliser
12-04-2015, 02:03 PM
The point of this study wasn't to increase minox absorption. Some people do use smaller rollers to increase absorption but that can lead to some serious health issues in some because minox can get into your bloodstream and cause havoc.

The point of this study was to stimulate growth factors. Minox is used to keep the hair follicles in a growing phase so when the growth factors are triggered with the use of a dermaroller, they attach to the hair follicles which are trying to grow instead of turning into collagen.

So this your natural approach?
Could you share some pictures to us, since mine was not clear enough for you in my imaginary mirror?

Vic
12-04-2015, 02:26 PM
Could "more bleeding" really be beneficial?
I somewhat understand the thoughts behind "wounding" the 'skin itself' but not how that affects the actual dormant hair follicle has me scratching my head.
Back to my original dermaroller question and what info I've further read...a .02 mm roller needle is all that's needed to greatly help topicals get to where they need to go. I still ask myself this rolling of needles over a head with hair must cause some damage to the hair outside the head by maybe cutting or stabbing through the hair shaft. I'm debating if 'on my head' that process would actually cause more harm to the existing hairs on my head vs the positive thoughts of allowing a topical to get to the hair follicle itself.
Do I want a bloody head, well maybe if I had viable scars on a bald head to where collegian may over time lessen the scars themselves. Do I feel bleeding your scalp helps to "grow hair"...I'm just not digesting that, is there scientific proof it infact does?


And to answer your question about damaging hair, it doesn't matter because hair is dead to begin with. You can poke it, cut it, stab it, etc etc etc and your hair follicle will grow more hair.

Vic
12-04-2015, 02:27 PM
So this your natural approach?
Could you share some pictures to us, since mine was not clear enough for you in my imaginary mirror?


Click on my name and look for my results thread. It would help us all out of you took the time to take similar pics.

HMDWN
12-05-2015, 04:12 PM
And to answer your question about damaging hair, it doesn't matter because hair is dead to begin with. You can poke it, cut it, stab it, etc etc etc and your hair follicle will grow more hair.
Vic, thanks for the reply, I'm aware a healthy follicle will make and push hair out of the scalp.
Like a fingernail I fully understand once the hair exits the scalp it's "dead".
My meaning of "damage" or damaging the hair is...on a person with a considerable a mount of hair I can't help but think a roller with 192 needles 'could-maybe' cut into the hairs thus breaking them off thus shredding them from your head and making the density look worse.
I could only imagine a 540 needle roller doing even more damage to the hair as there's a far greater chance the closeness/congestion of the needles will pierce into and break-off a hair and thin out what you're trying to preserve.
Know what I mean?

Vic
12-05-2015, 06:02 PM
Vic, thanks for the reply, I'm aware a healthy follicle will make and push hair out of the scalp.
Like a fingernail I fully understand once the hair exits the scalp it's "dead".
My meaning of "damage" or damaging the hair is...on a person with a considerable a mount of hair I can't help but think a roller with 192 needles 'could-maybe' cut into the hairs thus breaking them off thus shredding them from your head and making the density look worse.
I could only imagine a 540 needle roller doing even more damage to the hair as there's a far greater chance the closeness/congestion of the needles will pierce into and break-off a hair and thin out what you're trying to preserve.
Know what I mean?

If that's your logic then no one should use or try any hair growth treatment since every treatment available that actually works, first causes a shed which leads to temporary thinning.

Even if you cause damage to hair and you seem thinner for a little while, it's no different then using something as commonly used as Rogaine.

HMDWN
12-08-2015, 03:39 PM
If that's your logic then no one should use or try any hair growth treatment since every treatment available that actually works, first causes a shed which leads to temporary thinning.

Even if you cause damage to hair and you seem thinner for a little while, it's no different then using something as commonly used as Rogaine.
Vic again I thank you for your reply and of course you feedback is valid.
As I continue to read and gain more knowledge I am at times one that thinks outside the box so I'll ask one more opinion from you. Maybe this could be a factor, maybe not but here's another way I'm thinking...you know how it's said, when a person has hair transplants they will lose hair because it "shocks" the existing follicles.
Well, I have to wonder, forcing a 1.50 mm roller-needle into the scalp to "wound it" couldn't that also produce some "shocking" to the scalp-hair and cause another reason to shed too?
It almost seems, with any type of "save/regrow the hair treatment" whether it be deep-Dermarollering/needling, topicals as Fin, Dut, RU58841 etc or the extreme being hair transplants, there's no way to prevent the existing hairs from going through a hefty and depressing shedding phase.

HMDWN
12-08-2015, 03:40 PM
If that's your logic then no one should use or try any hair growth treatment since every treatment available that actually works, first causes a shed which leads to temporary thinning.

Even if you cause damage to hair and you seem thinner for a little while, it's no different then using something as commonly used as Rogaine.
Vic again I thank you for your reply and of course you feedback is valid.
As I continue to read and gain more knowledge I am at times one that thinks outside the box so I'll ask one more opinion from you. Maybe this could be a factor, maybe not but here's another way I'm thinking...you know how it's said, when a person has hair transplants they will lose hair because it "shocks" the existing follicles.
Well, I have to wonder, forcing a 1.50 mm roller-needle into the scalp to "wound it" couldn't that also produce some "shocking" to the scalp-hair and cause another reason to shed too?
It almost seems, with any type of "save/regrow the hair treatment" whether it be deep-Dermarollering/needling, topicals a Minoxidil, RU58841 or ingesting pills as fin, dut etc or the extreme side of the treatment being hair transplants, there's no way to prevent the existing hairs from going through a hefty and depressing shedding phase.

rhys216
12-08-2015, 04:21 PM
im using a dermapen bought from Ebay and it's very cheap. spills more blood then a roller.

I bought one of those and binned it. Not worth using in my opinion.
Bought a Derminator instead (fairly expensive) but works REALLY well though.
Apparently the cartridges penetrate deeper than the equivalent needle length of rollers, so I have started out with a 1mm needle length to be safe.
So far pain in tolerable, and I am not getting any blood. Little bit noisy on the scalp and face (I figure it can't hurt to look younger to) but still tolerable.
Not using anything else on scalp (very beginning stages of hair thinning), except caffeine shampoo (alpecin).

Currently I needle, then wash my hair with alpecin right after. I'm assuming it will also help the absorption of caffeine.

Too early to tell if it will make a difference, however I do see some shorter hairs growing where I don't 'think' there was any before needling.

BBay
12-08-2015, 07:20 PM
Hi people, long time lurker and have read many-many topic discussions.
BTW I'm 58 and always had an insane thick head of hair...but with age things are changing quick!
I'd like to bump this Dermarolling thread to ask two legitimate questions then, I'll be moving over to the RU5881 and Minoxidil threads for more questions.
So, with someone as my self that still has a considerable amount of hair on top yet, when shampooing I can now feel the tell tail horseshoe MPB pattern with my fingers. Also when exiting the shower I can see my scalp peeking through more and more vs lets say last year.
My dermaroller questions are...
1) wouldn't rolling a 1-1.5 mm roller over your scalp maybe damage existing hair follicles by harpooning them?
2) isn't there a possibility the roller needles cutting into and or shredding the existing hair?
Thanks to be here and for any advice and comments.

I found the roller gouged into my scalp and did not leave a balanced treatment area, I found it took awhile to heal up and I did have an infection from it. It did have some effect but I don't use it anymore. I have moved onto to the next level instrument and use a different mix to rub in., I'm one year older than you but I'm having really good results now. In short the roller is an ok introduction to start the results your after but long term too much pain.

Vic
12-08-2015, 08:29 PM
Vic again I thank you for your reply and of course you feedback is valid.
As I continue to read and gain more knowledge I am at times one that thinks outside the box so I'll ask one more opinion from you. Maybe this could be a factor, maybe not but here's another way I'm thinking...you know how it's said, when a person has hair transplants they will lose hair because it "shocks" the existing follicles.
Well, I have to wonder, forcing a 1.50 mm roller-needle into the scalp to "wound it" couldn't that also produce some "shocking" to the scalp-hair and cause another reason to shed too?
It almost seems, with any type of "save/regrow the hair treatment" whether it be deep-Dermarollering/needling, topicals a Minoxidil, RU58841 or ingesting pills as fin, dut etc or the extreme side of the treatment being hair transplants, there's no way to prevent the existing hairs from going through a hefty and depressing shedding phase.

It would take a lot more then a 1.5mm needle to cause shock loss. A hair transplant wound takes on average 3-4 days to heal. Wounds from a 1.5mm derma roller heal in 1 hour. That means shock loss occurs(sometimes) from wounds about a 100 times greater then what a 1.5mm derma roller causes.

HMDWN
12-10-2015, 08:39 AM
I found the roller gouged into my scalp and did not leave a balanced treatment area, I found it took awhile to heal up and I did have an infection from it. It did have some effect but I don't use it anymore. I have moved onto to the next level instrument and use a different mix to rub in., I'm one year older than you but I'm having really good results now. In short the roller is an ok introduction to start the results your after but long term too much pain.
I've been researching dermarollers to find they're not all created equal!
Not sure if this applies to your roller but I've seen some close-up videos of the cheaper modles where a so called "dermaroller" didn't have 'needles' but what looked more like little knife ends that would leave a "slice" in the skin vs a needle puncture!
Anyhow, I'm ordering a 192 dermaroller & 6 months of Kirkland 5% minoxidil for $25...not pleased to read it's so darn oily and takes hours to dry but 6 months of Kirkland vs one month for Lipogaine brand @ $25 is a, no brainer.
I would like to use RU, but the cost per month and questioning if it's a good batch deters me from that idea.
Maybe see a dermatologist too, to get on Fin 1.25 a day....fingers crossed!

Trouse5858
12-16-2015, 10:49 AM
This has most likely been answered more than once but I'd like to avoid sifting through 235 pages of this thread. Are you all applying minox on the scalp immediately following a derma-roll session or are you waiting a few hours/ a day? It makes sense that right after would be the best window for the minox to penetrate to the follicle but I've also read that minox isn't to be applied to "broken" skin. Also, anybody have any experience doing the same thing for facial hair? If I'm going to be bald, having at least decent facial hair would be a big boon for me. Thanks

youngin
12-16-2015, 01:19 PM
This has most likely been answered more than once but I'd like to avoid sifting through 235 pages of this thread. Are you all applying minox on the scalp immediately following a derma-roll session or are you waiting a few hours/ a day? It makes sense that right after would be the best window for the minox to penetrate to the follicle but I've also read that minox isn't to be applied to "broken" skin. Also, anybody have any experience doing the same thing for facial hair? If I'm going to be bald, having at least decent facial hair would be a big boon for me. Thanks
Most people aren't but the best case responder is applying after. Probably not immediately. Personally I wait about 30 min and then apply it. There is no ill effects from doing it.

doinmyheadin
12-17-2015, 06:32 AM
Are there any pictures of successful regrowth with dermarolling with or without minoxidil?

Gossip
01-22-2016, 02:01 AM
This looks like a successful procedure after 3 months; of 41 years old male from Greek hairloss forum with dermapen plus supplements. (a lot of things although)

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/910/h1AG1w.png

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/903/6XKDPK.png

http://www.hairlossgr.com/threads/wounding-dermapen-%CF%84%CE%BF%CF%80%CE%B9%CE%BA%CE%AC-%CE%BA%CE%B1%CE%B9-%CF%83%CF%85%CE%BC%CF%80%CE%BB%CE%B7%CF%81%CF%8E%C E%BC%CE%B1%CF%84%CE%B1.10640/

Gossip
02-10-2016, 02:18 AM
There is an update at first page. New photos two weeks ago

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/903/4gErT2.jpg

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/633/L8SirE.jpg

cardib
02-10-2016, 08:45 AM
hi gossip, are you currently derma rolling? any success?
There is an update at first page. New photos two weeks ago

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/903/4gErT2.jpg

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/633/L8SirE.jpg

Trouse5858
02-16-2016, 10:35 AM
I'm two weeks into derma rolling with a .5 mm roller. Doing the temples in addition the crown/ vertex. Only slight redness afterwards and mild discomfort at most. Going to see if this allows for any increased absorption of minox, since I'm only going to be taking it once per day now. I'll update in a couple months regardless of success.

bboyforever
02-16-2016, 04:10 PM
This thread isn't about increased absorption of topicals. It's about wounding the scalp to activate growth factors. People were using 1.5mm or more. 0.5 mm was far too shallow to cause any effect. Read the thread (at very least the beginning few pages) before posting. Your experiment is of no value to us.

epipapilla
02-16-2016, 04:18 PM
This thread isn't about increased absorption of topicals. It's about wounding the scalp to activate growth factors. People were using 1.5mm or more. 0.5 mm was far too shallow to cause any effect. Read the thread (at very least the beginning few pages) before posting. Your experiment is of no value to us.

That is entirely true. From my own personal experience the best use of a dermaroller is for the wound healing aspect and not for increased absorption of any topical serum you are using in order to try to achieve hair regrowth.

Vic
02-16-2016, 05:12 PM
I rolled with some decent results. I am about to begin my 2nd round. This time I am using a topical that increases growth factor response and supplementing with Amino acids that encourage cell proliferation. Trying to mimic what makes mice grow so much more hair after wounding than humans and it all comes down to what's in the skin. I'll update once I begin. Good luck to us all.

jamesst11
02-16-2016, 07:30 PM
That is entirely true. From my own personal experience the best use of a dermaroller is for the wound healing aspect and not for increased absorption of any topical serum you are using in order to try to achieve hair regrowth.

why can't it be used for both? I think the wound healing aspect is key, that's why a 1.5mm is critical... but, with applying RU and high concentration minox with AA and hydrocortisone, I think some people may get great benefits, no?

Chromeo
02-17-2016, 03:32 AM
I'd recommend anyone needling for wounding purposes get off the dermaroller and get hold of a dermastamp. I find it much, much easier to get the job done with a stamp, especially if you're treating a larger area of scalp.

cardib
02-17-2016, 09:45 AM
james have you seen actual regrowt with the derma rolling?

i feel like theres so many ppl talking about rolling, but not reporting on any regroth? what have your results been so far
why can't it be used for both? I think the wound healing aspect is key, that's why a 1.5mm is critical... but, with applying RU and high concentration minox with AA and hydrocortisone, I think some people may get great benefits, no?

jamesst11
02-17-2016, 10:16 AM
james have you seen actual regrowt with the derma rolling?

i feel like theres so many ppl talking about rolling, but not reporting on any regroth? what have your results been so far

I just started a couple weeks ago... it definitely makes my scalp feel great the next day, that's about it so far

Valy003
03-06-2016, 01:58 AM
Where do you buy sucralfate?I know that it can't penetrate the skin because it has a molecular weight for about 1000.And for something to penetrate the skin,it has to be max 500

doke
03-06-2016, 07:59 AM
Where do you buy sucralfate?I know that it can't penetrate the skin because it has a molecular weight for about 1000.And for something to penetrate the skin,it has to be max 500

Bloody hell I have not heard of sulcralfate for many years that's a really old hairloss product that did nothing holy moly.
I Tried it its a gastric product made from fructose a suger when I used it it was powder that was a bit sticky on the scalp and did not do anything.

HMDWN
03-06-2016, 01:29 PM
Bloody hell I have not heard of sulcralfate for many years that's a really old hairloss product that did nothing holy moly.
I Tried it its a gastric product made from fructose a suger when I used it it was powder that was a bit sticky on the scalp and did not do anything.
Not sure of your age but back in the mid late 70's "Bio-Genesis Original Helsinki Formula System" was the smoke & mirrors miracle cure > > > that did nothing.

ledhead
03-06-2016, 08:38 PM
Is there a general census with rolling? A lot to read through here...

PrettyFly83
04-11-2016, 04:16 AM
I have used minoxidil and I went from what he had to a more than decent head of hair too.

So I think I have some experience about this. These are rare stellar minoxidil results but they do happen.

Don't get your hopes up. PrettyFly will return to baseline in a year or so.

As if dermarolling would work on only 1 person out of thousands who tried it. Have some common sense here.

Return to baseline? Doesn't look that way

3 Year Update, ~6 months since last progress pics

Thought I post an update as I'm still getting gains from this treatment:

First pic: ~1 year into treatment
Second Pic: ~2.5 years on treatment
Third pic: ~ 3 years on treatment (6 months since last pic)

You can see the time and date stamps in the picture headings

One thing I added in the last 3 months is a Betadine based shampoo which I use prior to rolling which is about once every 1.5-2 weeks.

Ive had some new regrowth on my temple which was slick for the last 8 years and some of the hairs are clearly turning terminal. Wondering if the Betadine shampoo has been responsible for this latest regrowth....?

Ive highlighted the area

45943

Vic
04-11-2016, 07:26 AM
Return to baseline? Doesn't look that way

3 Year Update, ~6 months since last progress pics

Thought I post an update as I'm still getting gains from this treatment:

First pic: ~1 year into treatment
Second Pic: ~2.5 years on treatment
Third pic: ~ 3 years on treatment (6 months since last pic)

You can see the time and date stamps in the picture headings

One thing I added in the last 3 months is a Betadine based shampoo which I use prior to rolling which is about once every 1.5-2 weeks.

Ive had some new regrowth on my temple which was slick for the last 8 years and some of the hairs are clearly turning terminal. Wondering if the Betadine shampoo has been responsible for this latest regrowth....?

Ive highlighted the area

45943

Thanks for the update Fly, great progress. I haven't rolled for months now but still use Rogaine. I haven't seen improvement since I stopped rolling. Really need to start again.
When I did roll, I used a Betadine solution right before rolling each and every time.

doke
04-11-2016, 10:19 AM
Has anyone had problems with posting as I have been a long time bt member I seem for the first time to seeing posts not showing?

doke
04-11-2016, 10:24 AM
ok the site is working again now very strange.

HelloVera
04-13-2016, 01:37 AM
Hey Vic have you tried Dr Bronner's peppermint soap? been using it for a couple weeks now, i add rosemary, teatree and lavender into it. Haven't noticed much on the frontal front but the temples just above my eyelashes to about 2 inch up has been sprouting darker vellous hair about 2cm long with more getting darker and growing each time, my crown seems thicker and got darker vellous hair growing at my nape, which is the only place i don't dermaroll. I roll 5mm every 3 days and 1.5cm every 10 days.

79BirdofPrey
04-13-2016, 06:22 AM
Hey Vic have you tried Dr Bronner's peppermint soap? been using it for a couple weeks now, i add rosemary, teatree and lavender into it. Haven't noticed much on the frontal front but the temples just above my eyelashes to about 2 inch up has been sprouting darker vellous hair about 2cm long with more getting darker and growing each time, my crown seems thicker and got darker vellous hair growing at my nape, which is the only place i don't dermaroll. I roll 5mm every 3 days and 1.5cm every 10 days.

Are you adding essential oils? How much of each?

Soonbald
04-13-2016, 06:30 AM
Return to baseline? Doesn't look that way

3 Year Update, ~6 months since last progress pics

Thought I post an update as I'm still getting gains from this treatment:

First pic: ~1 year into treatment
Second Pic: ~2.5 years on treatment
Third pic: ~ 3 years on treatment (6 months since last pic)

You can see the time and date stamps in the picture headings

One thing I added in the last 3 months is a Betadine based shampoo which I use prior to rolling which is about once every 1.5-2 weeks.

Ive had some new regrowth on my temple which was slick for the last 8 years and some of the hairs are clearly turning terminal. Wondering if the Betadine shampoo has been responsible for this latest regrowth....?

Ive highlighted the area

45943




have you only been dermarolling? what mm on the derma needle and how often do u dermaroll? you dont use minox or anything else?? seems like u got alot more hair wtf..

Vic
04-13-2016, 06:38 AM
Hey Vic have you tried Dr Bronner's peppermint soap? been using it for a couple weeks now, i add rosemary, teatree and lavender into it. Haven't noticed much on the frontal front but the temples just above my eyelashes to about 2 inch up has been sprouting darker vellous hair about 2cm long with more getting darker and growing each time, my crown seems thicker and got darker vellous hair growing at my nape, which is the only place i don't dermaroll. I roll 5mm every 3 days and 1.5cm every 10 days.

Nice! I haven't heard of it but going to give it a try. Thanks!

HelloVera
04-13-2016, 11:20 AM
Hey 79birdofprey. I'm only using essential oils when i shampoo every 2 days. The castile soap i use has peppermint, olive oil extract, coconut oil and jojoba oil and i add 5 drops of rosemary, lavender and teatree into the bottle of soap. Only started using the Castile shampoo because keto shampoo makes my hair shred like crazy with no benefits.

HelloVera
04-13-2016, 11:53 AM
forgot to put i drench my scalp in ice cold water before and after shampoo'ing

PrettyFly83
04-20-2016, 02:52 AM
have you only been dermarolling? what mm on the derma needle and how often do u dermaroll? you dont use minox or anything else?? seems like u got alot more hair wtf..

My daily regime is:
• Minox 2ml
• 1 gram vita C, 1 gram MSM
• Zinc Supplement (supplement Zinc 18mg, Vit A 10 000iu, Vit B6 20mg)

Weekly:
• Roll for 5min with 1.5mm roller in crisscross pattern over entire scalp
• Very painful but don’t use any numbing cream etc. I get spots of blood all over
• I sterilise my roller thoroughly before and after
• Occasionally I rub 100% VitC in distilled water over my head for sunspots (havent done this for over a year)
Added: Betadine shampoo before rolling over last 3 months, wash my head under cold water, leave in for 5 min then wash out with cold water and roll.
I have always applied minox straight after rolling and experienced no sides

rakewell
04-20-2016, 04:18 PM
Just thought I'd share, as I haven't yet seen it brought up, that even the best dermaroller (many consider Dr Roller to be the best) only have about 20 uses before they should be changed. From what I understand, the needles go blunt and blunt needles should not be used. Perhaps it's bit like shavers going blunt. If you're using a cheaper brand then check with your seller on how many uses you can get.

On a side note, I'd like to thank pretty fly for posting his progress and being open and honest about his experience on this thread. Especially in spite of some negative, unhelpful comments.

Nerve
04-27-2016, 12:33 PM
Can one of the regular contributors to this thread make a concise post about what has been learnt in this thread?
I want to give Dermarolling a try but I do not want to be wasting my time by getting it wrong.

What is the prevailing consensus in regards to type of roller to buy and methods in which to do it?

Thanks

VictimOfDHT
04-27-2016, 02:14 PM
Return to baseline? Doesn't look that way



Ive had some new regrowth on my temple which was slick for the last 8 years and some of the hairs are clearly turning terminal. Wondering if the Betadine shampoo has been responsible for this latest regrowth....?

Ive highlighted the area

45943


So are you saying you think the regrowth is due to using the shampoo, not the dermarolling?

PrettyFly83
04-28-2016, 12:48 AM
Hard to say, I had a jump in regrowth over the last three months and the only addition was the Betadine based shampoo. Just noting the correlation. It may have just been a synchronized growth phase and the shampoo has had no impact. The original study used Betadine to sterilize the scalp I believe but maybe someone with a bit more knowledge on the science of iodine and hairgrowth can chime in?

user111
04-28-2016, 11:33 AM
Hi everyone. First of all and since this is my first post on this forum - sorry for my english as it is not my native language.
Next. Since I'm not satisfied with plain minoxidil (5%, + 4 ml of dimexid per 60 ml bottle for improved drug absorbability) effectiveness in my case, I'm thinking to try using 1.5 mm dermaroller in addition to it. But there are some questions I haven't found answers for yet. Maybe some of you can answer any of these.

1. Are there some long-term consequences of regular 1.5 mm dermaroller using? Will injures done with it count towards Hayflick limit? What terrible things could possibly happen if I'll use 1.5 mm dermaroller for ~15 years or so?
2. Is it possible to regrow some hair with 5% minox + roller combo, then stop rolling and just maintain them with only 5% minox? Or the formula "maintain is easier then achieve" doest't work in this case? Do any of you tried this approach?
3. In the mentioned study they applied minox 24 hours after the dermaroller using. Is it safe to apply it the same day?
4. 192 needles vs 540 needles? What type of (1 - 1.5 mm) roller do you use?
5. I didn't read all 200+ pages of current thread. Are there any confirmed noticable positive result of using 1 - 1.5 mm dermaroller in addition to 5% minoxidil like those in the mentioned study?

OnCollinsAve
05-18-2016, 07:17 AM
Does dermarolling and minoxidil cause more irritation?

markusbdc
06-14-2016, 06:59 PM
So Doke - Do you have any personal experience with sucralfate on your own MBP you could relate?

Nerve
06-15-2016, 03:10 AM
My daily regime is:
• Minox 2ml
• 1 gram vita C, 1 gram MSM
• Zinc Supplement (supplement Zinc 18mg, Vit A 10 000iu, Vit B6 20mg)

Weekly:
• Roll for 5min with 1.5mm roller in crisscross pattern over entire scalp
• Very painful but don’t use any numbing cream etc. I get spots of blood all over
• I sterilise my roller thoroughly before and after
• Occasionally I rub 100% VitC in distilled water over my head for sunspots (havent done this for over a year)
Added: Betadine shampoo before rolling over last 3 months, wash my head under cold water, leave in for 5 min then wash out with cold water and roll.
I have always applied minox straight after rolling and experienced no sides

Just out of interest, what do you sterilise your roller with?

doke
06-15-2016, 07:08 AM
So Doke - Do you have any personal experience with sucralfate on your own MBP you could relate?

Hi not really only that this is a way old treatment and I did buy the pills and crushed them I had to put it through a strainer due to the bulking agents it turned into a lotion that was a bit sticky as it is sucrose I think.
If it worked anyway I think we would all know by now.

tipsfedora
06-15-2016, 08:36 AM
Can I use hair fibers with dermarolling ?

Miiw
09-13-2016, 06:25 AM
Hey guys! I posted a separate thread for my results!

Here is the straight quote from my post, and also my results!

"Hey Guys!

I've been reading the forum for some time, but I just recently decided to register and share my story.

In short: I'm 25 years old, been balding from my early 20's. Went from thick full head of hair to thin hair in a matter of few years. Decided to buzz my hair, I was pretty happy, look pretty decent with the "bald / buzzed " hair style.
Yet sometimes I felt that I didn't want to be completely bald at my age, the feeling that we all young balders get I reckon.
So I was pretty excited when I found about the dermaroller study that was made back in 2013.
So I thought what the heck, let's try it.

First I started with Rogaine 5% and Ketoconazol 2%, after 1 month on Rogaine & Keto I added derma roller and Saw Palmetto to the regime and here are the results!
I gotta say I'm really pleased with the result so far! And they say that Rogaine shouldn't even show any signs of improvement before the 3 month mark!
Especially I'm surprised how much of my hairline got back!
The redness in the after picture is due to the derma roller treatment I did just before the photo.

Open to any questions etc.
If you want more pics etc, let me know. "



4859748596

Seuxin
09-13-2016, 06:30 AM
Very good dude !

Add stemoxydine, Dutasteride and a little of Licl when you dermaroll and you will gain new hair too !

HMDWN
09-13-2016, 06:34 AM
I guess the thing to see is 'if' those hairs actually cycle into full length growing hairs or if they don't...bu it would keep it up.

Miiw
09-13-2016, 06:41 AM
Let's keep our fingers crossed! Amazing results so far! :)

Miiw
09-13-2016, 06:49 AM
Here is one more pic! From today! In a bit better light and a bit longer hair. Shows the less thicker areas better also!

HMDWN
09-13-2016, 04:27 PM
Here is one more pic! From today! In a bit better light and a bit longer hair. Shows the less thicker areas better also!
Certainly looks promising...let it grow!
Give info if Rogaine is generic or name brand, foam or liquid, once or twice a day and Ketoconazol 2% is the shampoo?
What dosage of Saw Palmetto as I've to have ANY benefit to hair the dosage levels are off the charts!

Miiw
09-13-2016, 10:42 PM
Rogaine is indeed just that, Rogaine in the liquid form. They don't sell any other Minoxidil products in where I live, so I "have to" go with the original. It tends to be a bit pricey, but at least it seems to be working.
I apply it twice a day, so that I cover my whole scalp. The guide says to do 6 presses, which should give you 1ml of Minoxidil, but I'm doing around 10 presses, just to cover my whole scalp.
Ketoconazol is indeed the shampoo, which should stimulate hair growth, more so with minoxidil / Rogaine. It also helps if you get itchy scalp with Minoxidil. I use it every other day, eventually planning to do it 3 times / week.

I'm taking 820 mg of Saw Palmetto once a day. Hard to tell the difference so early on. Should see some results in 3-6 month time. Saw Palmetto *should* work in the same way as Finasteride, blocking DHT, but the evidence are quite controversial to say the least. So I guess, the best way to find out, is to try it on oneself.

For the dermarolling I'm using two microneedle sizes, 1,0mm and 0,3mm, I use the 1,0mm once a week and the 0,3mm every to every other day.

Seuxin
09-14-2016, 12:42 AM
Here is one more pic! From today! In a bit better light and a bit longer hair. Shows the less thicker areas better also!

Impressive dude !

cardib
09-15-2016, 10:25 AM
immmmm, this would be impressive if you were not a first time user of minox. its most likely growth from the minox, eps since your a first time user, and your age.

if you were previously on min, and fin, and then added the rolling and saw this, then it would be something.


Impressive dude !

Vic
09-15-2016, 10:55 AM
immmmm, this would be impressive if you were not a first time user of minox. its most likely growth from the minox, eps since your a first time user, and your age.

if you were previously on min, and fin, and then added the rolling and saw this, then it would be something.

Strange cause minox usually 1st causes a shed, THEN you see your first signs of growth after 3 months, if you even do see any results with minox.

Miiw
09-15-2016, 12:00 PM
Thank you guys for the positive feedback! I'll be uploading another photo when I hit the 10 week mark! :)

cardib
09-15-2016, 05:27 PM
ok, so the classic paper on derma needling, they didnt see results until he 6 month mark, and this guy has seen results in less than 2 months needling?
vic, since you are one of the few users on this forum who have rolled consistently, how long did you see results rolling? and did it just grow baby villus hairs, or real terminal growth?

from what i can remember, and please correct me if I'm wrong; it seems that no one has had as much regrowth with needling as the study subjects in the india study


Strange cause minox usually 1st causes a shed, THEN you see your first signs of growth after 3 months, if you even do see any results with minox.

Miiw
09-15-2016, 10:27 PM
Strange cause minox usually 1st causes a shed, THEN you see your first signs of growth after 3 months, if you even do see any results with minox.


ok, so the classic paper on derma needling, they didnt see results until he 6 month mark, and this guy has seen results in less than 2 months needling?
vic, since you are one of the few users on this forum who have rolled consistently, how long did you see results rolling? and did it just grow baby villus hairs, or real terminal growth?

from what i can remember, and please correct me if I'm wrong; it seems that no one has had as much regrowth with needling as the study subjects in the india study

You should remember the original subject of the study. It wasn't so much about only microneedling as a hairloss cure, it was more about the combined effect of Minoxidil and microneedling, versus only using Minoxidil.

As Cardib pointed out, my results might be so good, because I'm using Minoxidil for the first time. As a matter of fact, this is my first time trying any hairloss "cure", so probably it's the combined effect of them all working. And I can ensure you, I've been very consistent with the applications of my regime.

Also my young age is probably one of the reason for the good result, as my hair follicles might have been dormant, but not yet completely gone. As long as you have an active hair follicle, even if it just provides unnoticeable little tiny hairs, they can be renewed with the treatments. When the follicle is gone, it's gone for good. That's why it's crucial to start the treatments as soon as you notice the first signs, had I started my treatment even earlier the results would be even better.

What would I seriously gain by posting fake results here? I was hoping to give you guys some hope, that for some, (may it be because of the young age or genes), these treatments might just work.

Miiw
09-19-2016, 10:46 AM
Week 10

Vic
09-19-2016, 10:56 AM
ok, so the classic paper on derma needling, they didnt see results until he 6 month mark, and this guy has seen results in less than 2 months needling?
vic, since you are one of the few users on this forum who have rolled consistently, how long did you see results rolling? and did it just grow baby villus hairs, or real terminal growth?

from what i can remember, and please correct me if I'm wrong; it seems that no one has had as much regrowth with needling as the study subjects in the india study

I think Prettyfly had some nice results and Miiw is showing better results then anyone. Better then the study itself. I grew mostly peach fuzz/darker then peach fuzz but had two fully terminal hairs grow on my previously completely bald left temple.

I've never seen results like Miiw's.

Miiw
09-20-2016, 02:11 AM
Thank you Vic! Nice to hear, that I'm having good results!

When would you guys like to see next progress photo? Week 12 ?

Miiw
09-27-2016, 02:01 PM
Hey guys!

Went through my phone and found another set of photos of the progress in another light ( led lights ) from my work.

Goes like following:

Baseline -> 6 weeks -> 10 weeks "long" hair -> 10 weeks short hair

48759487604876148762

PrettyFly83
10-03-2016, 01:22 AM
Hey guys!

Went through my phone and found another set of photos of the progress in another light ( led lights ) from my work.

Goes like following:

Baseline -> 6 weeks -> 10 weeks "long" hair -> 10 weeks short hair

48759487604876148762

Incredible!!

Finally someone else has had significant success with this treatment, well done Miiw 10 weeks is phenomenal for this amount of gains. Seems you were in a very similar state to when I started both it terms of loss and treatments. My regrowth is still here after 3.5 years fyi so keep at it man.

PrettyFly83
10-03-2016, 01:32 AM
Double post

JulioGP
10-03-2016, 07:32 AM
Incredible!!

Finally someone else has had significant success with this treatment, well done Miiw 10 weeks is phenomenal for this amount of gains. Seems you were in a very similar state to when I started both it terms of loss and treatments. My regrowth is still here after 3.5 years fyi so keep at it man.

I've seen several other result with the Dermaroller.
Before
http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/b569/PrettyFly83/Derma%20Roller%20and%20Minox/2013-05-20094342_zpsb0ced7ac.jpg

After 3 Months:
http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/b569/PrettyFly83/Derma%20Roller%20and%20Minox/2013-08-30082555_zpsc1ab2ba5.jpg

People are behind miracle products, but often simple things give more results.

Here in this topic has several pictures of results at the beginning, I believe you have not seen.

Skin
10-03-2016, 08:38 AM
I've seen several other result with the Dermaroller.
Before
http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/b569/PrettyFly83/Derma%20Roller%20and%20Minox/2013-05-20094342_zpsb0ced7ac.jpg

After 3 Months:
http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/b569/PrettyFly83/Derma%20Roller%20and%20Minox/2013-08-30082555_zpsc1ab2ba5.jpg

People are behind miracle products, but often simple things give more results.

Here in this topic has several pictures of results at the beginning, I believe you have not seen.

This is encouraging. At such a high Norwood level too.

PrettyFly83
10-03-2016, 09:09 AM
This is encouraging. At such a high Norwood level too.

ha ha ....

yes thats me at the start, think 3 or 6 months in

Skin
10-03-2016, 09:46 AM
How are your results now? I've caught some of your post and you have been incredibly persistent.

I'm just finishing my first month and so far so good. By that I mean I'm getting on with weekly rolling and I'm not suffering with it!.

I'm also 3 months in to the big 3 along with stemoxydine.

I can see the fin and min kicking in. But I feel it's too early for anything to write home about with the rolling.

Im hoping ill be posting about visible success by christmas.

Miiw
10-08-2016, 10:14 AM
Hey guys! Once again thank you for the positive feedback! :)

Here's week 12+, harder to tell if I've made any significant gains from the last pic. The hair seems thicker tho. What do you think?

48921

k9gatton
10-08-2016, 12:34 PM
It's great to be here. Hellouser, you're the man.

Skin
10-08-2016, 01:29 PM
Hey guys! Once again thank you for the positive feedback! :)

Here's week 12+, harder to tell if I've made any significant gains from the last pic. The hair seems thicker tho. What do you think?

48921

Looks like continued progress to me. Good work.

Miiw
10-08-2016, 01:32 PM
Looks like continued progress to me. Good work.

Thank you Skin!

How are you doing? :)

Skin
10-08-2016, 01:35 PM
Thank you Skin!

How are you doing? :)

Well thank you. Something is starting to work for me. Just over a month on derma rolling. So hoping to see some magic in a couple of months.

Your results are helping me maintain my will!

pilipili
10-10-2016, 01:53 PM
Hey guys! Once again thank you for the positive feedback! :)

Here's week 12+, harder to tell if I've made any significant gains from the last pic. The hair seems thicker tho. What do you think?

48921

Impressive results so far.. But I missed the info: do you apply minox immeditaley after dermarollng? or you wait 24h to apply like stated in the study . thx

Miiw
10-10-2016, 10:16 PM
Impressive results so far.. But I missed the info: do you apply minox immeditaley after dermarollng? or you wait 24h to apply like stated in the study . thx

Right after dermarolling. Haven't noticed any side effects, except dry scalp, tends to flake dandruff-like white flakes from time to time.

Miiw
10-11-2016, 04:16 AM
Here's also one comparison in different light and in different place and a bit longer hair.

These photos are really showing the constantly improving hair thickness and hairline..!

Week 8 -> Exactly week 13 (taken today)

4900649007

Only22
10-11-2016, 06:03 AM
Is it worth trying dermarolling without minox? Can't use minox anymore and Ive only been using regenpure for a year which has definitely slowed my hair loss down but need to add something else to slow down even further!

Thanks Guys

JulioGP
10-11-2016, 07:21 AM
Miiw,
Your result is truly amazing.

Just to remember, you are using dermaroller 1 or 2 times a week? And what is the dermaroller size you use, 1mm?

Miiw
10-11-2016, 08:49 AM
Miiw,
Your result is truly amazing.

Just to remember, you are using dermaroller 1 or 2 times a week? And what is the dermaroller size you use, 1mm?

I use 1mm dermaroller once a week and 0,3mm dermaroller every 2 days!

-edit
and thanks for the compliment ! :)


Is it worth trying dermarolling without minox? Can't use minox anymore and Ive only been using regenpure for a year which has definitely slowed my hair loss down but need to add something else to slow down even further!

Thanks Guys

I really think that Minoxdil is a big part of the microneedling process and as a combination they work very well! But you could give it a try at least! Try a six month period for example and then you can see if there's any improvement. You can't lose anything and dermarollers are relatively cheap to buy!

Skin
10-11-2016, 10:17 AM
I use 1mm dermaroller once a week and 0,3mm dermaroller every 2 days!

-edit
and thanks for the compliment ! :)



I really think that Minoxdil is a big part of the microneedling process and as a combination they work very well! But you could give it a try at least! Try a six month period for example and then you can see if there's any improvement. You can't lose anything and dermarollers are relatively cheap to buy!

Nice work. And thanks for your updates.

How hard are you rolling? Much bleeding?

Miiw
10-11-2016, 12:29 PM
Nice work. And thanks for your updates.

How hard are you rolling? Much bleeding?

Thanks and my pleasure, if I can help you guys out with my experiences!

I roll with the pressure of my relaxed hand on the dermaroller, with the 1mm roller I do get some bleeding, but not that much. The 0,3mm gives me some redness, but not bleeding, propably because of the small needle size!

Skin
10-11-2016, 12:37 PM
Thanks and my pleasure, if I can help you guys out with my experiences.

I roll with the pressure of my relaxed hand on the dermaroller, with the 1mm roller I do get some bleeding, but not that much. The 0,3mm gives me some redness, but not bleeding, propably because of the small needle size!

Thanks that's good to know. I think I've been going too hard. Last time o did it I had lots of blood. I think I'm going to ease back on the pressure. At the moment I'm pushing it down quite hard.

If you don't mind me asking how old are you and is it the first time you have used minox? I know some guys would say If it's the first time you've done minoxidil then the results could be down to that. However I have only very rarely seen minox work so well for anyone. So I'm pretty sure it's the rolling.

Miiw
10-11-2016, 12:43 PM
Thanks that's good to know. I think I've been going too hard. Last time o did it I had lots of blood. I think I'm going to ease back on the pressure. At the moment I'm pushing it down quite hard.

If you don't mind me asking how old are you and is it the first time you have used minox? I know some guys would say If it's the first time you've done minoxidil then the results could be down to that. However I have only very rarely seen minox work so well for anyone. So I'm pretty sure it's the rolling.

I'm 25 and this is indeed the first time I'm using any hairloss treatment. So Saw Palmetto, Nizoral, Minoxidil and the rolling are all surely adding up to the result. Hard to say which one of them is the biggest factor. Probably them all combined!

Skin
10-11-2016, 12:51 PM
I'm 37. I was around 25 wheniu first used minoxidil. I did not get as good results as you at all. So i really do believe rolling is a big player.

I'm definitely getting results from my current treatment. Weirdly I have temple growth which I didn't get before when I did minox. But this time I'm on a topical fin and min.

Again I'm really happy to see your results.

mic28
10-11-2016, 02:43 PM
Hi Skin and Miiw, would you guys be able to provide details on what topical fin and minox you're using? I ordered a 1.5mm dermaroller yesterday. I'm a diffuse thinner/loser

Skin
10-11-2016, 02:51 PM
Hi Skin and Miiw, would you guys be able to provide details on what topical fin and minox you're using? I ordered a 1.5mm dermaroller yesterday. I'm a diffuse thinner/loser

Hi mic.

I'm using morr f 5. Topical fin and min (all in one). And stemoxydine. I also use nizoral shampoo 2x a week and caffeine shampoo the rest of the week.

I roll once a week with a 1.5.

Good luck!

Miiw
10-11-2016, 10:19 PM
Hi Skin and Miiw, would you guys be able to provide details on what topical fin and minox you're using? I ordered a 1.5mm dermaroller yesterday. I'm a diffuse thinner/loser


I use only minoxidil (Rogaine brand), not using finasteride at all in any form. You could also try Nizoral (Ketoconazol) and Saw Palmetto! Good luck mate!

Meridian1000
10-13-2016, 10:10 PM
I'm going to ad a competing view. Perhaps if you're very bald and quite frankly have nothing to lose my traumatizing your scalp, then go ahead and stab away. But the derma roller ripped hair out of my head, was painful, seemed to just caused minor swelling which at least superficially make my temples look more barren.

Has anyone else had a negative experience with the derma roller?

k9gatton
10-14-2016, 05:02 AM
I'm 37. I was around 25 wheniu first used minoxidil. I did not get as good results as you at all. So i really do believe rolling is a big player.

I'm definitely getting results from my current treatment. Weirdly I have temple growth which I didn't get before when I did minox. But this time I'm on a topical fin and min.

Again I'm really happy to see your results.

That's what I'm using. Think I'm going to post a thread with pictures about my topical Progesterone experience. I use all three in one topical. That is Minoxidil, Finasteride, and Progesterone.

markusbdc
10-14-2016, 10:14 AM
Very good dude !

Add stemoxydine, Dutasteride and a little of Licl when you dermaroll and you will gain new hair too !


I am on dutasteride and I can tell you that one should probably save it for a last resort. I have had some significant sexual side effects and they aren't fun. I at this point (I'm 61 and switched from Finasteride about 4 months ago as it stopped working) wouldn't recommend it. It is a very powerful anti-androgen and you are chemically castrating yourself in return for a shot at hair preservation..Do your due diligence first....

Skin
10-15-2016, 09:16 AM
That's what I'm using. Think I'm going to post a thread with pictures about my topical Progesterone experience. I use all three in one topical. That is Minoxidil, Finasteride, and Progesterone.

Yeah log it. Are you rolling?

Skin
10-15-2016, 09:18 AM
I'm going to ad a competing view. Perhaps if you're very bald and quite frankly have nothing to lose my traumatizing your scalp, then go ahead and stab away. But the derma roller ripped hair out of my head, was painful, seemed to just caused minor swelling which at least superficially make my temples look more barren.

Has anyone else had a negative experience with the derma roller?

I'm experiencing close to zero shedding on this treatment.

My hair is always quite short though. I hear for longer hair you should roll in the general direction of the hair growth. That way avoids snagging at the roots.

KeepHoping
10-16-2016, 11:11 AM
Here's also one comparison in different light and in different place and a bit longer hair.

These photos are really showing the constantly improving hair thickness and hairline..!

Week 8 -> Exactly week 13 (taken today)

4900649007

Would you be willing to send the link to where you purchased your rollers? Would greatly appreciate it, thank you!

KeepHoping
10-16-2016, 11:13 AM
Also, a few more questions...

1. Has anyone else seen results with a 1mm roller?
2. How many people are applying minox directly after rolling?

Thank you!

Miiw
10-16-2016, 12:15 PM
Here's some updates (week 13-14)

Here's long hair and then again short hair, after buzzing my hair down, pics from today.

Miiw
10-16-2016, 12:19 PM
And then again,

Baseline -> Today, after +13 weeks of treatment

Miiw
10-16-2016, 12:25 PM
Would you be willing to send the link to where you purchased your rollers? Would greatly appreciate it, thank you!

Hey!

I'm from Finland and I bought the roller from a local pharmacy, it's pretty basic: 1mm and 540 needles! So any roller with those specs should be good enough I reckon! :)

KeepHoping
10-16-2016, 01:51 PM
Hey!

I'm from Finland and I bought the roller from a local pharmacy, it's pretty basic: 1mm and 540 needles! So any roller with those specs should be good enough I reckon! :)

Thanks for responding! Can I ask when you roll with the smaller roller, the 0.3mm, do you roll at night and then immediately apply the minox afterward?

k9gatton
10-16-2016, 06:50 PM
Here's some updates (week 13-14)

Here's long hair and then again short hair, after buzzing my hair down, pics from today.

Good work.

It's too late in life for me to start this. Wish I started it earlier, because now I have a Norwood 3
vertex hairline.

79BirdofPrey
10-16-2016, 07:31 PM
My hair is about 3" long...can I dermaroll? I'm afraid the hairs will get caught in the roller. Can someone recommend a dermaroller to get?

Makuhito
10-20-2016, 11:16 AM
What did you hairline look like before with long hair?

sayian
10-29-2016, 08:38 AM
I don`t get you guys supplementing with high amounts of Vit A, since Vit A in high amounts is known to produce hairloss.

k9gatton
10-29-2016, 12:47 PM
I don`t get you guys supplementing with high amounts of Vit A, since Vit A in high amounts is known to produce hairloss.

It might even do more damage than that. It is fat soluble.

elvispresley
11-09-2016, 02:31 AM
hi guys i have some questions if you can help me, i would like to start try this dermaroller but my situation is particular.

my hairloss is at the vertex basically i have only the vertex gone fully. all my hair are very long so that i cover my crown . (like gareth bale just my crown is fully gone...)

so my idea is to shave the hair at the vertex (nearly nothing) and start dermarolling. but i have no idea on how to do it and how to start.

so your suggestions and help are welcome.

questions:

0- where i can buy dermaroller ? (i am actually in malaysia)
1-what peculiarity the dermaroller must have ? example the needle 1.5 as i read a the beginning or other things that MUST have , so that i buy the correct one.
2- where i can find a video on how to use it ? if you have some link or instructions.
3- i am not going to use finasteride or other chemicals , do you think will be a decent try? or i must combine it with some medicines?
4-what is the minimium amount of time before i get some changes, based on your experience?


please let me know if you have time thanks a lot.

elvispresley
11-09-2016, 02:59 AM
im reading the old posts and thanks to Miiw im getting many info.
please let me know if this minox is good for a 6 months try and if the price is convenient or not (i have never used anything until now)

MINOX in malasia :

http://www.11street.my/productdetail/kirkland-minoxidil-5-extra-strength-hair-regrowth-14171271?_n=mh&ds_cid=71700000015937135&ds_kid=p12847820776&gclid=CI62wuWym9ACFRUkaAodvmkD8w&gclsrc=aw.ds&tid=1400014010&v=1

dermaroller 1mm= http://www.lazada.com.my/derma-microneedle-roller-1mm-black-1903437.html

please tell me they are good for starting thanks :)

79BirdofPrey
11-12-2016, 05:45 PM
Can someone recommend good dermaroller(s) here in the US?

Sean
11-13-2016, 10:59 PM
Can someone point me to an actual study regarding the dermaroller and its safety?

Has anyone had adverse effects?

Any infections?

Any added hairloss?

Any added scar tissue?

Anything detrimental? Thanks.

BBay
11-14-2016, 04:12 AM
yes to a study https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3746236/
Has anyone had adverse effects?
Not that I know of using micro pen , derma roller yes the rolling pins gouged scalp

Any infections?
from roller not cleaned pins properly caused infection


Any added hairloss?
yes see this doctors video link
http://agelessclinics.com.au/hair-regrowth/

Any added scar tissue?
none

Anything detrimental? Thanks.
yes cost more to have hair cuts

BBay
11-14-2016, 04:19 AM
0- where i can buy dermaroller ? (i am actually in malaysia)
buy a micro pen from China with 12 needles, roller will kill you with the pain
1-what peculiarity the dermaroller must have ? example the needle 1.5 as i read a the beginning or other things that MUST have , so that i buy the correct one.
According to micro needle 0.5 is good for front part, back part up to 1mm, no need to go deeper
2- where i can find a video on how to use it ? if you have some link or instructions.
check this link with doctor in Sydney he sells kits http://agelessclinics.com.au/hair-regrowth/

3- i am not going to use finasteride or other chemicals , do you think will be a decent try? or i must combine it with some medicines?
he has 2 formulas one with nutrients and vitamins that you rub in once you micro needle and the second is pharmceutical you need doc prescription to to get it
4-what is the minimium amount of time before i get some changes, based on your experience?
check the video


please let me know if you have time thanks a lot.
3- i am not going to use finasteride or other chemicals , do you think will be a decent try? or i must combine it with some medicines?
4-what is the minimium amount of time before i get some changes, based on your experience?


please let me know if you have time thanks a lot.

HMDWN
11-14-2016, 01:23 PM
"see this doctors video link
http://agelessclinics.com.au/hair-regrowth/"...that seems shady as heck

BBay
11-15-2016, 03:57 AM
yes it could seem that way, but Aussie's are lousy marketers, need to take a leaf out of Americans way of marketing. I can only give my personal experience, I was the "guinea pig tester" for the older guys in their late fifties with thinning hair and I will be using my home hair kit for a long time to come with the results I have.

HMDWN
11-15-2016, 08:00 AM
yes it could seem that way, but Aussie's are lousy marketers, need to take a leaf out of Americans way of marketing. I can only give my personal experience, I was the "guinea pig tester" for the older guys in their late fifties with thinning hair and I will be using my home hair kit for a long time to come with the results I have.
All due respects but even in the "before" pic there is no face, nothing to reference that is remotely the same person! Seems like a 'Snake Oil' cure to me.

elvispresley
11-22-2016, 11:43 PM
ok thanks guys,

today i will start minoxidil spray + dermaroller 1mm once a week. (next week i will add also the 0.25mm dermaroller 2x a week, so total 3x dermarolled x week 1mm x1 0.25mm x2)

i will use minoxidil also once a week. 24 hours after the derma rolling.

i have a question , how do you clean the dermaroller ? and how often you clean it?

thank you.

;)

elvispresley
11-22-2016, 11:44 PM
also another question,

as i said i will use minoxidil spray once a week.

so i ask you guys if there are some homemade NATURAL liquids or spray i can home make , for example

juicing onions + garlic + apple cider vinegar, that in a way or another can help regrow. so that i can use this natural cheap liquid or spray every day and MINOXIDIL just once a week

please let me know if u know thx :)

MG63
11-23-2016, 10:01 AM
Has anyone ever tried a derma rolling followed by topical Caffeine?

k9gatton
11-23-2016, 02:31 PM
Has anyone ever tried a derma rolling followed by topical Caffeine?

Never tried it myself. My Minoxidil dosage is too high (thirty percent). Probably bad side effects for me if
I tried doing that.

Miiw
11-29-2016, 02:01 AM
Hey guys!

Sorry that I haven't posted anything for a while! Been busy at work!

Also I had some major shedding around week 15, I'd like to contribute that to Saw Palmetto, since I hit the 3 month mark with it, just when I started shedding.
After the shed, the hair seems to be more thicker and denser!

Here's photo of week 20 - the longest hair I've had in years!