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inbrugge
01-07-2015, 05:48 PM
DIM is the main ingredient in over the counter estrogen blocker pills. I think it's the extract from vegetables (like broccoli, cauliflower) that are supposed to help flush estrogen out the system. I don't know much about its dosage and safety. A week later, I don't know bout its efficiency in reducing gyno either. I guess it really depends on how much your gyno has progressed. I am currently just going off anything that messes with hormones completely, including my saw palmetto shampoo.

Trouse5858
01-07-2015, 09:04 PM
I'm in the same boat with regards to gyno. It's probably not visible to anyone else but I'm aware of it because it's only in one nipple and it's not severe yet at all. Anyone have any luck just reducing the dosage..? I'd really prefer not to stop using RU before it has a chance to be successful but man boobs are worse than thinning hair I guess.

Swooping
01-09-2015, 08:49 AM
Andactrim supposedly works very good against gyno, but it's DHT gel so that sucks.

goldnt
01-09-2015, 05:56 PM
Yeah that's the best topical I found for combating gyno but it tends to go systematic so that's a hell no.

Illusion
01-10-2015, 03:07 AM
Andactrim supposedly works very good against gyno, but it's DHT gel so that sucks.

Even gyno that has already developped a bit and has been there for a few years? I don't know a lot about gyno but a lot of people say that when it is there for too long, it becomes permanent and surgery is the only solution left.

Illusion
01-11-2015, 11:12 AM
I want to start minoxidil, but I'm not sure how to use it in combination with RU... I don't want to add my RU to my minoxidil because I make batches for 5-7 days and I have my doubts regarding minoxidil being a good vehicle for such a long time. Hence, I want to use Minoxidil besides using RU (vehicle = ethanol/pg).

How do I do this? Should I do minox first and then RU? Or the other way around? And do I have to wait untill the first one (the one that is better to apply first) has dried up? If so, that could take a while.

Another possibillity is to apply minox in the morning and RU in the evening but I believe minox has to be applied two times a day so I'm not sure if that would be sufficient enough.

diffuseloser
01-11-2015, 11:53 AM
I want to start minoxidil, but I'm not sure how to use it in combination with RU... I don't want to add my RU to my minoxidil because I make batches for 5-7 days and I have my doubts regarding minoxidil being a good vehicle for such a long time. Hence, I want to use Minoxidil besides using RU (vehicle = ethanol/pg).

How do I do this? Should I do minox first and then RU? Or the other way around? And do I have to wait untill the first one (the one that is better to apply first) has dried up? If so, that could take a while.

Another possibillity is to apply minox in the morning and RU in the evening but I believe minox has to be applied two times a day so I'm not sure if that would be sufficient enough.

I've been using RU in minox with no issues. I make up 3 month batches then freeze them. It doesn't appear to lose efficacy for me.

If you want to avoid using minox as a vehicle, I would definitely do the RU first then apply minox later. You should be alright using minoxidil once per day. It's not ideal but neither is using it twice a day. It's the RU that's gonna give you the regrowth so make that your priority. I don't believe using minox twice a day makes much of a difference anyway. It's gonna lose efficacy after a while however much you apply it. Go with RU in the morning and minox at night if that is most convenient for you.

Illusion
01-11-2015, 02:32 PM
I've been using RU in minox with no issues. I make up 3 month batches then freeze them. It doesn't appear to lose efficacy for me.

If you want to avoid using minox as a vehicle, I would definitely do the RU first then apply minox later. You should be alright using minoxidil once per day. It's not ideal but neither is using it twice a day. It's the RU that's gonna give you the regrowth so make that your priority. I don't believe using minox twice a day makes much of a difference anyway. It's gonna lose efficacy after a while however much you apply it. Go with RU in the morning and minox at night if that is most convenient for you.

Interesting... If you say that RU + minox, mixed in the freezer for a long time, doesn't seem to lose efficacy, I'd probably go for that. By the way, on what do you base that it doesn't loses its efficacy? Anyone else who has experience with the stabillity of RU + minox?

And yeah, RU definitely has priority over minox so it indeed would be best to apply it before minox. But if mixing RU and minox wouldn't be a problem, that would be great.

PS: minox% doesn't matter if you're going to mix it right?

diffuseloser
01-11-2015, 02:45 PM
I have no evidence or nothing besides my own experience to back that up with. The RU I get from Kane is apparently stable for up to a year in powder form. Where do you get your RU from? I'm just going by what works for me. I don't see any reason why mixing it in minoxidil would affect it's stability, but would also like to hear some other opinions. I freeze it just to be sure. I have 2x 60ml bottles in the freezer at the minute and one 60ml bottle I'm currently using stays in the fridge until I apply it in the evening, then straight back into the fridge again. Don't take my word for it. It works for me and I've had results with this method but I would be interested to see what others have to say.

In the meantime, you could mix up a small batch of minox with a little RU powder to get you going for a week say.

Illusion
01-11-2015, 04:48 PM
I have no evidence or nothing besides my own experience to back that up with. The RU I get from Kane is apparently stable for up to a year in powder form. Where do you get your RU from? I'm just going by what works for me. I don't see any reason why mixing it in minoxidil would affect it's stability, but would also like to hear some other opinions. I freeze it just to be sure. I have 2x 60ml bottles in the freezer at the minute and one 60ml bottle I'm currently using stays in the fridge until I apply it in the evening, then straight back into the fridge again. Don't take my word for it. It works for me and I've had results with this method but I would be interested to see what others have to say.

In the meantime, you could mix up a small batch of minox with a little RU powder to get you going for a week say.


I also get my RU from Kane. I haven't been using it for that long (about a month) but I base it's efficacy on how bad my itch is (which is not very reliable but better than basing it on sheds as those form a standard part of normal hair cycles). I also don't know why RU wouldn't be stable in minoxidil but that's just the problem with experimental treatments: we don't know a lot of things. But for example, I've heard that RU is less stable in water than it is in ethanol/pg. I don't know if this is true, but if it is, then that means that certain substances are better vehicles for RU than others (which is quite logically ofcourse). That's why I'm always a bit hesitant with putting RU for a prolonged period of time in vehicles that aren't ethanol/pg (actually, even with ethanol/pg I don't like the idea of making batches for longer than 1 week.


I do it like this: I store my RU powder in the freezer, and make batches once per week in ethanol/pg (70:30 ratio). I put my weekly batch in one vial. This vial I also store in the freezer. I don't know if this is good or bad, because it means that everytime that I use my RU, it's ice cold (aka straight from the freezer). I take this vial out of the freezer in the evening to apply, and then put it back into the freezer, although I sometimes forget to do that and it is out of the freezer for the night (but I don't think this is a big problem). Like I said, I'm only using RU for about one month now, so I can't really tell you if the RU is doing something for me or not. I have to say though, the past few weeks I have shed a lot less (as to 2 hairs falling out while styling it vs 20 when I wasn't on RU) and my itch is almost completely gone, but that's not enough to convince me that it's working. I want to see at least a long time of maintenance before I can tell anyone it's working great.

You say you store the bottle you're currently using in the fridge instead of the freezer, what's the advantage to that?

xLeox
01-12-2015, 01:24 AM
I have a question: I'm currently using ru 5% and minox separated. since my schedule is really tight, it's kind hard for me to apply ru in the morning and minox at night after work. I'm wondering: how much time should pass between the 2 applications in order to keep them as effective as possible? would it be ok to apply ru and then minox after a short lapse of time, like 30 mins or an hour, or should I wait longer, like 2 hours or more? sure you guys can help me with this. thanks.

diffuseloser
01-12-2015, 11:50 AM
I have a question: I'm currently using ru 5% and minox separated. since my schedule is really tight, it's kind hard for me to apply ru in the morning and minox at night after work. I'm wondering: how much time should pass between the 2 applications in order to keep them as effective as possible? would it be ok to apply ru and then minox after a short lapse of time, like 30 mins or an hour, or should I wait longer, like 2 hours or more? sure you guys can help me with this. thanks.

Half hour should be alright. I'd wait as long as possible and make sure the first treatment has dried in sufficiently.

hellouser
01-12-2015, 01:26 PM
I have a question: I'm currently using ru 5% and minox separated. since my schedule is really tight, it's kind hard for me to apply ru in the morning and minox at night after work. I'm wondering: how much time should pass between the 2 applications in order to keep them as effective as possible? would it be ok to apply ru and then minox after a short lapse of time, like 30 mins or an hour, or should I wait longer, like 2 hours or more? sure you guys can help me with this. thanks.

30-60 minutes is fine. It's what I did.

Illusion
01-12-2015, 03:48 PM
Diffuseloser, do you rub the minox in your scalp? I used to do just that with RU in ethanol/pg but was wondering if it would matter if you'd do the same with minox and RU (as I read that people don't rub minox in their hair but just drop & leave it there). It probably doesn't matter that much but I'd like to know anyway.

Also, would it really matter what minox I'd be using if I'm going to dissolve RU into it? I'm going for a 5% solution, that's for sure, but I'm not certain of the brand yet as there are slight differences in things like vehicle.


(I might be overthinking this)

diffuseloser
01-13-2015, 12:55 AM
Diffuseloser, do you rub the minox in your scalp? I used to do just that with RU in ethanol/pg but was wondering if it would matter if you'd do the same with minox and RU (as I read that people don't rub minox in their hair but just drop & leave it there). It probably doesn't matter that much but I'd like to know anyway.

Also, would it really matter what minox I'd be using if I'm going to dissolve RU into it? I'm going for a 5% solution, that's for sure, but I'm not certain of the brand yet as there are slight differences in things like vehicle.


(I might be overthinking this)

Hey Illusion. I always try to massage the minoxidil into my scalp, especially if there's RU in there. You definitely don't want to waste it. If you just drip it onto your scalp, you're missing spots and the shit will run down onto other areas of your scalp and your face. I find that rubbing it in a little with the tips of my fingers combats this and helps with penetration.

As for minoxidil, I just use cheap and cheerful Kirkland 5%. I've heard a good few others using this as well with success, although I don't think it matters. Try to look for one with a lower water content.

xLeox
01-13-2015, 05:05 AM
thanks for the answer guys. being able to put minox on after an hour makes things easier for me


30-60 minutes is fine. It's what I did.

you switched to combining ru + minox or you just don't use ru anymore?


As for minoxidil, I just use cheap and cheerful Kirkland 5%. I've heard a good few others using this as well with success, although I don't think it matters. Try to look for one with a lower water content.

when talking about Ru and Minox combined, do you think one should stick to 10 ml batch or it's possible to make relatively bigger batches (like 30 ml, so that I wouldn't need to prepare it every week) and still keep 100% ru effectiveness? and how much ethanol should I add for such a quantity (30 ml)? what other minox could be good, besides kirkland, for such purpose?

thanks once again for your feedback, much appreciated. it's hard to get ru talk here in italy.

diffuseloser
01-13-2015, 05:37 AM
You're welcome. I would probably advise you to stick with smaller batches although I do make up large batches(3x 60ml bottles) and freeze them.

I use as little alcohol as possible. I put the powder into a glass jug then just dump in a few capfuls of alcohol, then almost immediately in with the minoxidil.

xLeox
01-14-2015, 09:24 AM
I see. I'm planning to make bigger mixed batches as you eventually. as for a couple months, I'll stick to 10 ml ru batches only. I've been using it for a month now and I think it caused me a little shedding, so I don't wanna risk to aggravate it switching to a different minox (currently using one with progesterone added, done by a pharmacy) that I'm using now. plus, I'm kinda paranoid about the exact quantity of ethanol to add to the solution.

Illusion
01-14-2015, 12:03 PM
Hey Illusion. I always try to massage the minoxidil into my scalp, especially if there's RU in there. You definitely don't want to waste it. If you just drip it onto your scalp, you're missing spots and the shit will run down onto other areas of your scalp and your face. I find that rubbing it in a little with the tips of my fingers combats this and helps with penetration.

As for minoxidil, I just use cheap and cheerful Kirkland 5%. I've heard a good few others using this as well with success, although I don't think it matters. Try to look for one with a lower water content.

Cheers mate, just ordered me some Kirkland 5%, I'll see how things go.


I use as little alcohol as possible. I put the powder into a glass jug then just dump in a few capfuls of alcohol, then almost immediately in with the minoxidil.

You still add ethanol to the RU? I thought I could just dump the powder in a vial and then add minox to it, shake it and done. Are you adding ethanol for solubility?

diffuseloser
01-14-2015, 12:21 PM
I use Isopropyl 99.9%. RU will dissolve in stock minoxidil without it but may take a little longer. There is alcohol present in Kirkland 5% but a few capfuls of Isopropyl helps it along for me. If I ever make another batch I'll try it without. I think the most important aspect is to use a little heat to help it dissolve. Hot water from the sink is sufficient.

Illusion
01-14-2015, 04:03 PM
Got it. Will experiment a bit with it to see what works best. With heat you mean that you put your closed minox+RU bottle in a hot bath of water to make it dissolve faster? Or do you actually add the hot water to it? I'm not very keen on mixing with water as it's not great for dissolving (I heard), but if you say so... Again, will mess around with this a bit :p

atob
01-14-2015, 04:29 PM
have started a separate thread, but hard to geyt traction as a new poster :)

looking to make my own minox and ru topicals.

what would be best non pg vehicle? glycerine, iso propyl? others? what %/ ratio?

can I use same vehicle for minox? will be 2 separate preparations. do you need to use a cream base if higher than 5% minox?

finally any ideas for whare to buy minox raw powder in europe? tried china, but most suppliers wont do small amounts..or very expesnive.

I have read through loads of threads, but still none the wiser

thanks!

diffuseloser
01-15-2015, 12:54 AM
Got it. Will experiment a bit with it to see what works best. With heat you mean that you put your closed minox+RU bottle in a hot bath of water to make it dissolve faster? Or do you actually add the hot water to it? I'm not very keen on mixing with water as it's not great for dissolving (I heard), but if you say so... Again, will mess around with this a bit :p

No, definitely don't add any water! What I mean is, bathe the container with the solution in hot water. I use a glass measuring jug for this and when it has dissolved completely, I fill up the empty Kirkland bottles with the minox/RU solution.

atob, you can find all the information you need about making RU at the start of this thread. Not sure about making your own minox.

atob
01-15-2015, 07:51 PM
hi

yes have read through and seems like glycerine /ethanol is an option if no pg, but hard to see a concensus?

what would be right ratio.. 70/30, gyl/eth?

Hairismylife
01-15-2015, 08:19 PM
Why nobody considers KB solution? I think it's good.

whatsgoingon
01-15-2015, 11:44 PM
I have a two questions/talking points for this.
1) why does no one use RUM anymore? I think I read it's difficult to find a good distributor, but having a cream application method would be ideal. I'd hate to get RU in my eyes
2) why do companies develop this then drop this randomly? it's been picked up several times from what I've read, but it's always dropped. Is it because they realize it isn't sell-able as a hairloss drug as it topically degrades too quickly to sell and would need to be refrigerated in order to mass distribute? Or could it be that orally the sides are as bad as other similar spec'ed drugs and that coupled with the degradation makes it difficult to make profitable.

Just a bit curious on peoples takes on those questions.

Plan C
01-17-2015, 04:57 PM
Is ethanol/pg still considered the best vehicle for RU? Currently alternating days of ethanol/pg and neogenic but considering dropping neo altogether.

atob
01-17-2015, 05:20 PM
from all ive read, eth/pg is the most used vehicle. from those who use neo - there didn't seem to be any specific advantage other than its ready made?

glycerine or aloe +eth to avoid scalp irritation, k and b seems to leave a film, and residue.

Illusion
01-17-2015, 07:07 PM
First few weeks of RU usage were pure heaven for me (close to zero shedding, no MPB itch) but things have changed... I'm back to my old shedding but more important, that goddamned itch is back. I even upped my dosage but it doesn't seem to matter. It's not the RU, as I do get the sides with the higher dosage. Does anybody know what's going on? Are my AR's just completely ****ed?

Haircure
01-20-2015, 06:55 PM
I recently bought the powder from anageninc and was wondering where do I buy the solution ingredients in canada? I couldn't find everclear and not sure where to look for propylene glycol. The solution requires ethanol, so couldn't I buy the rubbing alcohol which is 95% ethanol?

Swooping
01-22-2015, 11:43 PM
I recently bought the powder from anageninc and was wondering where do I buy the solution ingredients in canada? I couldn't find everclear and not sure where to look for propylene glycol. The solution requires ethanol, so couldn't I buy the rubbing alcohol which is 95% ethanol?

Look out that the alcohol isn't denatured with something toxic. You can use a lower % alcohol too, as long as it will dissolve.

doke
01-24-2015, 04:10 AM
Guys has anyone ordered from anagen ru powder recently as I ordered some on Thursday 22nd jan 15 and they just say on there site processing when I ordered in the past my order was sent straight away.
I wonder if they are still trading I know its part of kanes company but the service seems to have gone down.

Plan C
01-24-2015, 04:16 AM
Look out that the alcohol isn't denatured with something toxic. You can use a lower % alcohol too, as long as it will dissolve.

Is this stuff alright

https://www.thewhiskyexchange.com/P-15105.aspx

doke
01-24-2015, 04:47 AM
Hi plan I notice that whisky exchange no longer sells balken 176 which is strong but if you search for it on google you will find it 70cl bottle a delux grain vodka its pricey about 44 a bottle but using with ru it lasts ages.
I notice that the whisky exchange is 31 for only 500mls so the 176 which is 88% slightly lower alcohol still worked for my ru I mixed.

Plan C
01-24-2015, 04:51 AM
Hi plan I notice that whisky exchange no longer sells balken 176 which is strong but if you search for it on google you will find it 70cl bottle a delux grain vodka its pricey about 44 a bottle but using with ru it lasts ages.

Balkan 176 is only 88%. Spirytus is 95% and cheaper?

doke
01-24-2015, 05:12 AM
yes but its a bigger bottle 70cl but anyway the one you mention is fine but remember you can also use pure medical grade ethyl alcohol which I think you can buy on ebay and maybe cheaper.
But I would go with the whisky exchange it is as you say stronger I may buy that as im nearly out of the balken.

doke
01-24-2015, 05:18 AM
Hi plan you can get the spirytus 95% on ebay uk its only 100mls but only 8 a bottle I forgot I have one already.

doke
01-24-2015, 05:22 AM
Hi plan I forgot I got a 100ml bottle of spirytus 95% on ebay uk its still for sale and only 8 I found it when looking for pure ethyl alcohol on ebay.

Illusion
01-24-2015, 07:23 AM
Ehm spirytus isn't for internal usage? It contains methanol, which is poisonous...

doke
01-24-2015, 08:25 AM
Ehm spirytus isn't for internal usage? It contains methanol, which is poisonous...

We are using for topical use not drinking the dame stuff hahaha

Illusion
01-24-2015, 08:41 AM
We are using for topical use not drinking the dame stuff hahaha

Yeah but it can go systematic? I doubt an amount of methanol that small wil do much harm, but still...

Shinobi
01-24-2015, 11:01 AM
Has anyone seen this blog : www.ru58841.net

very interesting

Swooping
01-24-2015, 12:46 PM
Has anyone seen this blog : www.ru58841.net

very interesting

Awesome that the guy on the blog had improvement with RU after 12 years of fin usage.

doke
01-25-2015, 04:05 AM
You can add ru to minoxidil best it is regaine or us rogaine lotion as the guy on you tube hairlossfrom steroids does I think he is adding 3grams to 30mls of minox but for a 5% per ml you can try 3 grams to 60mls of lotion.

atob
01-25-2015, 01:56 PM
Ehm spirytus isn't for internal usage? It contains methanol, which is poisonous...

poloms' spiytus 95% on whisky exchange it says its supposed to be used as the base for liquers and it should be diluted.. but therefore means it is for internal use?

atob
01-25-2015, 02:57 PM
hellouser, reading through posts, you stopped ru but then restarted? did you stop for any reason? sides? have you restarted again? any difference to approach/ amount of ru used?

thanks

NeverSleep
01-26-2015, 06:35 PM
I also get my RU from Kane. I haven't been using it for that long (about a month) but I base it's efficacy on how bad my itch is (which is not very reliable but better than basing it on sheds as those form a standard part of normal hair cycles). I also don't know why RU wouldn't be stable in minoxidil but that's just the problem with experimental treatments: we don't know a lot of things. But for example, I've heard that RU is less stable in water than it is in ethanol/pg. I don't know if this is true, but if it is, then that means that certain substances are better vehicles for RU than others (which is quite logically ofcourse). That's why I'm always a bit hesitant with putting RU for a prolonged period of time in vehicles that aren't ethanol/pg (actually, even with ethanol/pg I don't like the idea of making batches for longer than 1 week.


I do it like this: I store my RU powder in the freezer, and make batches once per week in ethanol/pg (70:30 ratio). I put my weekly batch in one vial. This vial I also store in the freezer. I don't know if this is good or bad, because it means that everytime that I use my RU, it's ice cold (aka straight from the freezer). I take this vial out of the freezer in the evening to apply, and then put it back into the freezer, although I sometimes forget to do that and it is out of the freezer for the night (but I don't think this is a big problem). Like I said, I'm only using RU for about one month now, so I can't really tell you if the RU is doing something for me or not. I have to say though, the past few weeks I have shed a lot less (as to 2 hairs falling out while styling it vs 20 when I wasn't on RU) and my itch is almost completely gone, but that's not enough to convince me that it's working. I want to see at least a long time of maintenance before I can tell anyone it's working great.

You say you store the bottle you're currently using in the fridge instead of the freezer, what's the advantage to that?

Hey Illusion,

I started applying RU 4 days ago, and the first thing I noticed was the itch that you speak of. Is that a sign that it is working? My scalp has been itching me from the very first application, and I wasnt sure if it was the RU causing it.

25 going on 65
01-26-2015, 08:39 PM
hellouser....do you pretty much stand by all of your advice in post 1 of this thread? Have you come up w/ any improvements, warnings, etc?

I know I could just read all 50 pages of this thread but do not want to. Thanks for all the work you put into the guide

burtandernie
01-27-2015, 05:51 PM
If you bought the 50 ML from anagenic of RU and that vehicle thing they sell how long would that last you roughly? Do you just use it once per day? Why cant they just sell the stuff premixed I dont know what the hell im doing

mikes23
01-27-2015, 06:32 PM
@burtandernie if you go on good looking loser website chris breaks down how to mix ru in minoxidil. He also breaks down how to make different percentages. And anagenic sells it pre made, I heard it's pretty good but it's more expensive in the long run.

doke
01-28-2015, 02:17 AM
Hi mikes that's what I have said minox as per hairloss loser on youtube vid as well says mix minox with ru he chooses to make 30mls of minox with 3grams of ru, but to make a 5% ru you can add 3grams to 60mls minox I think it was he who said use regaine or rogaine for the mix as some of the generics do not work as well.

Illusion
01-28-2015, 01:50 PM
Hey Illusion,

I started applying RU 4 days ago, and the first thing I noticed was the itch that you speak of. Is that a sign that it is working? My scalp has been itching me from the very first application, and I wasnt sure if it was the RU causing it.

Well, if you suddenly started noticing an itch on your scalp at the same itme you started RU, it might very well be the vehicle that gives you that itch. For example, some people have an allergic reaction to propylene glycol and thus get an incredible itch from applying that to their scalp. However, this is just an allergic reaction and has nothing to do with the baldness process.

I'm not saying the above is the case, but it might be worth considering. If it persists for a long time and if you're sure it's not related to baldness (like you're on RU for a good while and have some maintenance and slight thickening, which probably means that your balding is stabilised for now) then you could consider to switch to a different vehicle if the itch is really annoying to you. A good alternative would be to use KB as a vehicle. I can't really tell you much more about KB though as I don't use it myself...

burtandernie
01-28-2015, 04:35 PM
Is anagenic a legit site to buy it like the premade solution? It would be nifty if someone knew the guys that researched this drug and could ask them what they thought about long term safety, if it went systemic, and stuff like that. I dont know how I feel using a completely untested chemical although propecia we know goes systemic too. The guys that worked on RU would have good guesses about its use for MPB or why it never got finished. I would believe them verses people guessing.

mikes23
01-28-2015, 05:24 PM
@doke he said generic is fine and if it doesn't dissolve throw it in the freezer, it will dissolve then. You could also add some ethanol, reason being minoxidil solutions have a lot of water in them.

@burtandernie Anagenic is legit, that's where most get there RU from. Ru goes systematic but it turns into a weaker chemical but if you use to much you may notice sides. Ru has some studies on it. Of course propecia goes systematic you take it as a pill and for propecia to work it needs to lower your DHT. And you will probably never find out why it did not get finished, it would be interesting to know though. But in the hairloss world alot of things that have potential are put to the side or dismissed, Aderans for example. There's enough people using RU to know it works but with any treatment it might not work for everyone. You got to make that decision if it's worth to use or not.

Jazz1
01-28-2015, 06:22 PM
I vouch for Anagen always great service from Kane, I always keep RU58841 as back up.

Illusion
01-29-2015, 02:07 PM
I've been using RU for about 1,5 months now but I don't have the feeling it has been doing a lot... I know I should give medication more time but thing is that my hair line has got a lot of new miniaturized hairs and unfortunately, these aren't new hairs sprouting out but old hairs dying (I have pictures for comparison).

I used to make weekly batches of RU mixed with ethanol and propylene glycol, which I stored in the freezer. Sometimes I forgot to put the bottle of premixed RU back in the freezer again so it would be a night out of the freezer, though in a dark bottle (no light could reach it) and with room temperature. After this night I would put it back in the freezer again.

Regarding mixing, I used to get my whole back of RU (10g) out of the freezer to mix my weekly batch. It would be out of the fridge for half an hour or so and it would be exposed to lamplight (never to sunlight though) with the temperature being just standard room temperature.

I apply RU once a day right before going to bed. I don't always wash my hair right before using it and sometimes there are a couple of hours between getting my RU out of the freezer and actually applying it.

Do you guys see anything in the above which could have decreased efficacy of the RU? My dosage varied during the time of using, but it varied between 25mg/2,5 ml and 70 mg/2,5ml. Would this be too low to notice an effect? I doubt it, as I did notice some systematic effects from the RU... Could it be that my hair just not responds to RU? Also, I'll now be starting to apply 70mg RU / 2ml kirkland 5% minoxidil, where I'll be making 3-day batches which I will store in the freezer. Any tips as to increase efficacy or improve something in the whole storage/mixing/applying process? Note that I have the MPB-itch pretty often still...

Again, I didn't expect to see an improvement after 1,5 months but I certainly didn't expect to see my hair line miniaturize more than it did before...

burtandernie
01-29-2015, 05:57 PM
Why do people think this doesnt go systemic though? This study on stumptailed macaques found no systemic sides but they said it could induce them. Its hard to believe something so potent does not go systemic at all although it seems to work really well at stopping androgens

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9798729

The potency of RU58841 was comparable to that of hydroxyflutamide. From this result, topical application of RU58841, which is considered to be a potential therapy for skin diseases, may induce systemic side effects. However, RU58841, on topical application, revealed a potent increase in density, thickening, and length of hair in the macaque model of androgenetic alopecia, whereas no systemic effects were detected.

Swooping
01-30-2015, 08:16 AM
Why do people think this doesnt go systemic though? This study on stumptailed macaques found no systemic sides but they said it could induce them. Its hard to believe something so potent does not go systemic at all although it seems to work really well at stopping androgens

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9798729

The potency of RU58841 was comparable to that of hydroxyflutamide. From this result, topical application of RU58841, which is considered to be a potential therapy for skin diseases, may induce systemic side effects. However, RU58841, on topical application, revealed a potent increase in density, thickening, and length of hair in the macaque model of androgenetic alopecia, whereas no systemic effects were detected.

I think in some phenotypes RU58841 might go systematic, The handy thing about RU-58841 is that it works differently than a 5ar2 inhibitor and doesn't alter hormonal levels whatsoever. Sides rapidly go away when treatment is stopped if you look at user experience. I experience the same.

burtandernie
02-01-2015, 06:37 PM
If you buy the premixed RU from anagenic how long does it keep and can you just store it room temperature? If you apply it like once a day how long would 50ml last you?

Illusion
02-01-2015, 08:00 PM
If you buy the premixed RU from anagenic how long does it keep and can you just store it room temperature? If you apply it like once a day how long would 50ml last you?

Can't really tell you much about efficacy of premixed RU compared to self-mixed RU... I believe Kane's RU (in powder form, not in mixed form!) is proven to keep it's efficacy at room temp for 6 months, you should ask someone else as a reference though.

Regarding ml/dose, it depends on your area of balding. When you only need to apply it to the hair line, I think 0,5ml is enough. However, when your whole scalp is balding you're going to need 2ml at least in my experience. It also depends on vehicle. ethanol/ppg (70/30) is a bit thicker then when you mix RU into minox, thus I feel it's easier to spread the minox-RU out over my head and thus I need less of it.

Tenma
02-01-2015, 08:05 PM
if you choose to go with premixed ru, the 5% concentration 1 ml= 50 mg. it should last you 50 days if you apply 1 ml per day. thats what im using now and it works great. im buying the premixed ru from anageninc. apparently it should be stable at least for 6 months. the dosing schedule really depends on the cm2 area you want to cover.

Alclops
02-02-2015, 02:51 PM
Hi guys, will denatured alcohol suffice as an alternative to Everclear? It contains 95% ethanol, 5% water, 0.01% denaturant. Unfortunately they don't sell Everclear in Australia. It is $3 for 1L.

burtandernie
02-03-2015, 04:53 PM
Do most people buy from Kane or anagenic or is there a difference? I think it goes without saying that if you dont get a legit pure batch it would be pretty dangerous and probably not work too well

deuce
02-03-2015, 06:20 PM
Man I want to try this stuff bad, but I am so nervous about it.

burtandernie
02-03-2015, 06:50 PM
yeah its a little nerve wracking to take an experimental chemical that is made who knows where under who knows what conditions. The positive is your using this topically so its not like your drinking this stuff everyday.

Kudu
02-03-2015, 06:55 PM
If it makes anyone feel better, I literally just finished my first application of RU a few minutes ago. I feel no different and my dick hasn't fallen off yet, so I think I'm in good shape haha. Ordered from Anagen, the package came nicely packaged and timely, so far I'm pleased. Back to my initial question, would it hurt if I applied RU twice a day? Morning and night? What do yall think?

deuce
02-03-2015, 08:22 PM
yeah its a little nerve wracking to take an experimental chemical that is made who knows where under who knows what conditions. The positive is your using this topically so its not like your drinking this stuff everyday.

Yeah man I hear ya. Its looking like I may order some soon. I just cannot wait another 4 years for CB or Bimatroprost.

FearTheLoss
02-03-2015, 09:28 PM
To be honest I think RU didn't make it to market because it does go systematic. I have tried to take fin 3 different times at different dosages and have suffered side effects from it ever since. Granted, they are not near as bad now, and I'm getting slightly better as time passes, they still exist.

I tried RU premixed from kane and had very very minor sides, nothing compared to fin, but nonetheless they were still present. I'd assume they knew this and therefore it wasn't smart to even bring it to market for the small population that would use it.

I don't have much hope for CB because of this. I think all AA's are going to come with sides, but if CB does in fact dissolve when it hits the bloodstream, then that would be huge.

Illusion
02-04-2015, 03:08 PM
If it makes anyone feel better, I literally just finished my first application of RU a few minutes ago. I feel no different and my dick hasn't fallen off yet, so I think I'm in good shape haha. Ordered from Anagen, the package came nicely packaged and timely, so far I'm pleased. Back to my initial question, would it hurt if I applied RU twice a day? Morning and night? What do yall think?

Wouldn't hurt to apply twice a day (morning and night) but I think you'd be throwing money away tbh. I doubt applying it AM and PM is going to have a big increase in efficacy compared to AM or PM only.

Good choice starting with RU bro, it will ease your mind a bit at the very least. Hopefully you'll get some positive results soon! What dosage and which vehicle are you using?

Folfoxorack
02-04-2015, 03:27 PM
I've tried RU for 8 months

Pics Before and After.

Before

http://hpics.li/f16fbef

After ...

http://hpics.li/c74422b

-

My old regimen : Avodart twice a day (fin doesn't work at al for me) + Minoxidil ... since 5 yo. Worked great.

When I started RU : Ru 50mg up to 100. + Minoxidil + Avodart twice a week ... I wanted to lower sexual sides effects.

I lost a lot of hair and after 8 months I give up. My scalp hurts so much.
RU is from anageninc.

Avodart is the only treatment that works on me. I'm really disappointed.

Maybe RU is great, but not for men like me who have a very agressive AGA. I can make others pcis ... but I feel so depressed each time I do ...

If your current regimen works, dont try an other ...

nliyan25
02-04-2015, 08:02 PM
I'm still losing about 15 hairs a day on RU, which isn't bad, I think. I've been using it since September 2013. I usually skip a day per week (laziness, usually), and usually lose more than 15 hairs the next day. Does this match up with other peoples' experiences?

hellouser
02-04-2015, 08:17 PM
I'm still losing about 15 hairs a day on RU, which isn't bad, I think. I've been using it since September 2013. I usually skip a day per week (laziness, usually), and usually lose more than 15 hairs the next day. Does this match up with other peoples' experiences?

You could be losing 15 or 150 hairs a day. It doesn't matter. The real evidence is in the hair that's regrown; is it thicker or continually miniaturized?

burtandernie
02-04-2015, 08:31 PM
Someone should apply a little to their beard, or body hair somewhere like an arm to see over a few months what it does. Assuming its all working I would expect a powerful AA like RU to have some real effect on facial hair or body hair if it alters all androgens from binding with the follicles. Should work on any hair not just head hair. I mean in theory your talking almost castration levels of androgens its a pretty powerful substance although its all depending on how pure and potent the chemical they are selling actually is.

Alclops
02-04-2015, 10:46 PM
Sorry to ask this again, but will denatured alcohol suffice as an alternative to Everclear? It contains 95% ethanol, 5% water, 0.01% denaturant. Unfortunately they don't sell Everclear in Australia.

Thanks!

diffuseloser
02-05-2015, 01:31 AM
I miss a fair few days on RU. Usually get about 5 days in a row in, Mon to Fri then slack off a bit on the weekend. I do notice I lose a few more hairs on the day I miss. But it's working great for me. Really happy with it and don't mind using it long term until something better comes along. No sides either.

Hairismylife
02-05-2015, 01:47 AM
I miss a fair few days on RU. Usually get about 5 days in a row in, Mon to Fri then slack off a bit on the weekend. I do notice I lose a few more hairs on the day I miss. But it's working great for me. Really happy with it and don't mind using it long term until something better comes along. No sides either.

What means working great? Keeping or regrowth?
I can't see regrowth having used RU for 3 months.

burtandernie
02-05-2015, 07:20 PM
I dont think that means much either way. If you see miniaturized hairs back to full length than your onto something. So RU is legal to buy for research purposes? I still wish we had a little more on its safety. Its a pretty powerful drug if it went systemic but maybe the guy is selling diluted or fake RU anyways.
lucky for us all of MPB is a big research problem since no one knows anything about how to stop it. So every MPB treatment is kind of for research into whether it works for you or not.

deuce
02-05-2015, 08:13 PM
I dont think that means much either way. If you see miniaturized hairs back to full length than your onto something. So RU is legal to buy for research purposes? I still wish we had a little more on its safety. Its a pretty powerful drug if it went systemic but maybe the guy is selling diluted or fake RU anyways.
lucky for us all of MPB is a big research problem since no one knows anything about how to stop it. So every MPB treatment is kind of for research into whether it works for you or not.

I hear ya man. Thats the one thing about it for me. The safety. WOuldnt it be nice if we could contact the researchers behind their study and see why it was not passed for FDA approval.

nliyan25
02-05-2015, 08:17 PM
hellouser, honestly, I (foolishly) didn't take pictures when I first started RU, but I don't know if it's making much of a difference. I know when I first started using it, I was losing something like 50 hairs a day. Rogaine definitely didn't work for me. I'm wondering if I should try Propecia instead.

xLeox
02-06-2015, 12:35 AM
what % do you guys use RU at ? first month I've been using it 8%, and then I switched to 5%. I think I can have noticeable results only using 8%, cause, even though I still lose less hair than before, I don't seem to have any further regrowth now that I switched to 5%.

Swooping
02-08-2015, 07:36 AM
what % do you guys use RU at ? first month I've been using it 8%, and then I switched to 5%. I think I can have noticeable results only using 8%, cause, even though I still lose less hair than before, I don't seem to have any further regrowth now that I switched to 5%.

I use 5%.. Used 6-7% too but didn't really notice a difference.

burtandernie
02-09-2015, 05:54 PM
It is legal to buy this in US then right? I dont want my house raided or go to jail in cuffs for trying this. I might try it just to use a little on the temples where hair is already miniaturized just to see if it does anything or maybe a little on my arm for a while to see if it actually does anything. I think I will see derm though and go propecia route over this because this chemical is just too unknown and unregulated.

Illusion
02-10-2015, 09:48 AM
It is legal to buy this in US then right? I dont want my house raided or go to jail in cuffs for trying this. I might try it just to use a little on the temples where hair is already miniaturized just to see if it does anything or maybe a little on my arm for a while to see if it actually does anything. I think I will see derm though and go propecia route over this because this chemical is just too unknown and unregulated.

What

You mean put it on your arm to see if it will stop body hair growth on that particular spot first? If that's what you meant then lol, dont waste your time with that. If I were you I'd hop on fin and apply RU to the spots on your scalp where it's most needed (so if you're receding, only apply RU to your hairline/temples). That way it doesnt cost you much money and you'll have double protection.

Now ain't that great

burtandernie
02-10-2015, 05:48 PM
Yeah I have been thinking lately about seeing a derm for propecia because my normal doc wont prescribe it but the derm costs more so hopefully my doc can refill them. RU then is legal to buy in US? My hair loss is pretty minor and slow but I have that itch in the very front and I have miniaturization going on.

lilpauly
02-10-2015, 05:59 PM
Yeah I have been thinking lately about seeing a derm for propecia because my normal doc wont prescribe it but the derm costs more so hopefully my doc can refill them. RU then is legal to buy in US? My hair loss is pretty minor and slow but I have that itch in the very front and I have miniaturization going on. U should start with fin and Minox . I get a script for DUt through the wellness center

diffuse
02-11-2015, 03:51 AM
Hello guys, sorry for my english i'm from Hungary, Europe. My first post here. I started using RU like a week ago, got from Kane, made a 600mg batch (70/30 ethanol ppg) for 10 days so it's 60 mg daily. I'm sensitive to anti androgens but I haven't experienced any sides yet, which is weird cause a lot of users say that they have bad sides, i hope my ru isnt fake. My question is: Have you guys ever heard or used Dutasteride mesotherapy? There's doctor here who has been doing it for 7 years with some before after pics and he claims that it's working. I've started using it on my own in May, 2014, i don't afraid of needles and it's much cheaper. I've injected to the scalp 1mg of dut every month (Like the doctor), also used minoxidil and had a full head of hair!!!!, when i started using dut meso i stopped minox and ive been trough a terrible shed and i went straight back on it and had an amazing regrowth. Around christmas my hair started shedding bad and in 1 month I lost almost all of my hair (that's why I started using RU). So I'm back where i started. Do you think it will come back?? I've seen on ************ Irishpride he had terrible sheds and he always came back from it. I upload pictures about my success and a photo of the current situation.

http://kepfeltoltes.hu/view/150211/IMG_7483_www.kepfeltoltes.hu_.jpg

http://kepfeltoltes.hu/150211/febr_9_www.kepfeltoltes.hu_.jpg

Thanks.

Illusion
02-11-2015, 12:49 PM
Sup guys, quick question:

I mix 70mg RU with 1,5ml minox (5% Kirkland) and 0,5ml ethanol. I still have that MPB-itch though. Am I doing something wrong? I make batches for 3days and keep those batches in the fridge.

jacobus
02-11-2015, 02:44 PM
Illusion, it might just be that you use too much shampoo every day. I hated the itch on my head and was convinced that it was from MPB, but when I couldn't shower for two days it started to go away and has not come back since I started using much less shampoo every day (two weeks already). Of course MPB-itch is real, however, I am saying that a similar itch may arise from too much shampoo. If it applies to your case, please try! - (only a little for your hairs and wash away quickly)

kaptainjack
02-12-2015, 12:31 PM
Illusion, it might just be that you use too much shampoo every day. I hated the itch on my head and was convinced that it was from MPB, but when I couldn't shower for two days it started to go away and has not come back since I started using much less shampoo every day (two weeks already). Of course MPB-itch is real, however, I am saying that a similar itch may arise from too much shampoo. If it applies to your case, please try! - (only a little for your hairs and wash away quickly)

Or try a sulfate free shampoo.

Jonathan
02-12-2015, 03:11 PM
I just decided to drop fin and will try RU instead. I use 1 ml Rogain 5% foam in the mornings, and 1ml Rogain 5% liquid at night so it would be easiest just mixing the RU with the Rogain. What do you thing about mixing RU with the liquid Minox as a 10% solution and then just apply it once a day, at night? ...and keep taking 1 ml Rogain foam in the morning without RU.

deuce
02-16-2015, 09:32 PM
So ready to make the jump to try this. I am just hung up on it being an experimental treatment. I cannot find any good studies on safety. Such as fertility and other side effects. Man it just sucks that we don't know more. I know a lot of people have tried it, but it is still scary putting a chemical on your head and it gets in your body systematically and you know the chemical was not made in a lab by a reputable company. Any input would be great. Thanks guys

Swooping
02-20-2015, 12:52 PM
So ready to make the jump to try this. I am just hung up on it being an experimental treatment. I cannot find any good studies on safety. Such as fertility and other side effects. Man it just sucks that we don't know more. I know a lot of people have tried it, but it is still scary putting a chemical on your head and it gets in your body systematically and you know the chemical was not made in a lab by a reputable company. Any input would be great. Thanks guys

Well you can find enough studies about anti-androgens. There are quite some studies about RU too and clinical trials have run too. Perhaps you can contact the people who were involved in this to get more information.

sdsurfin
02-20-2015, 02:19 PM
So ready to make the jump to try this. I am just hung up on it being an experimental treatment. I cannot find any good studies on safety. Such as fertility and other side effects. Man it just sucks that we don't know more. I know a lot of people have tried it, but it is still scary putting a chemical on your head and it gets in your body systematically and you know the chemical was not made in a lab by a reputable company. Any input would be great. Thanks guys

Deuce I think the way to go right now is to use ru like every other day and a pgd2 blocker in rotation. Or just both every day if you have the money. Every person buying RU should be asking for setipip or OC or both. I'm positive they are much safer and better maintenance treatments. And for whoever is on fin and not maintaining I think adding a pgd2 blocker is prob the way to go. I've researched the shit out of this and it all seems correct.

Illusion
02-20-2015, 02:33 PM
Illusion, it might just be that you use too much shampoo every day. I hated the itch on my head and was convinced that it was from MPB, but when I couldn't shower for two days it started to go away and has not come back since I started using much less shampoo every day (two weeks already). Of course MPB-itch is real, however, I am saying that a similar itch may arise from too much shampoo. If it applies to your case, please try! - (only a little for your hairs and wash away quickly)

Thanks for the tip, will cut down on my shampoo-usage. Everything to get rid of that itch I guess, it's annoying as hell.


Well you can find enough studies about anti-androgens. There are quite some studies about RU too and clinical trials have run too. Perhaps you can contact the people who were involved in this to get more information.

This is so much harder than it sounds. Maybe I'm just a retard when it comes to finding other people online, but I searched through quite some articles on ncbi, googled every researcher of Battmann's team and even searched through Linked-In, but nothing came out of it... I highly encourage anyone to try as well though, I was hoping to get an answer as to why RU was discontinued from any further investigation. Up to this day I hope that it had something to do with finances or it being too expensive, and something with potentional (longterm) sides or its efficacy. Though I assume if it were one of the latter, we would have read more about it online.

sdsurfin
02-20-2015, 02:51 PM
Thanks for the tip, will cut down on my shampoo-usage. Everything to get rid of that itch I guess, it's annoying as hell.



This is so much harder than it sounds. Maybe I'm just a retard when it comes to finding other people online, but I searched through quite some articles on ncbi, googled every researcher of Battmann's team and even searched through Linked-In, but nothing came out of it... I highly encourage anyone to try as well though, I was hoping to get an answer as to why RU was discontinued from any further investigation. Up to this day I hope that it had something to do with finances or it being too expensive, and something with potentional (longterm) sides or its efficacy. Though I assume if it were one of the latter, we would have read more about it online.


Man I have struggled with the itch for two years now, and the only thing that got rid of it was topical zyrtec at night. It's still there a little, but even after not taking zyrtec for two days it's not bad. I don't mean to beat a dead horse, but PGD2 is the key here. If you block the things that jumpstart inflammation, you block the itch. I have no idea if blocking PGD2 is the way to keep your hair forever, but it definitely does not hurt.

Evrery person on this forum should be waking up to the news that Cotsarellis' research was legit, and that companies are willing to invest money into this. Not to mention the fact that pretty much every PGD2 blocker tested by people online has pretty much halted shedding. Do not expect regrowth from this route, but if you want to stop losing hair, we need to start getting someone like kane to sell this at a competitive price. Things like BIM and SM might come out in a few years and provide that means for regrowth that the blockers don't have, but until then the purpose of these forums is to makes moves ahead of time and keep what we've got.

Every forum poster that still has hair should be emailing kane (or working to find another source) and asking his a) to sell setipiprant at a competitive price to RU, b) sell OC at a competitive price, and c) explain to him why we are more interested in setipip (because cots and kythera have worked for two years tailing different pgd2 blockers, and that is what they chose. Tell kane that it doesn't matter if OC is stronger, it might not be as selective for hair growth as setipip is, and is surely more of a pain to apply. I don't know about you, but ethanol does not do anything good for my scalp.

sdsurfin
02-20-2015, 02:53 PM
and vis a vis RU, i doubt it's too unsafe to give a shot (definitely more safe than propecia), but we only have to look at the history of people online trialling it to see that it has a very variable efficacy. It seems to work and then stop working and cause sheds, and the PGD2 blockers don't seem to do this at all.

lifelonglearning
02-20-2015, 08:06 PM
Just wanted to post my personal experiences on RU

Ive tried it about 3 times

- first 5 percent KB for about 3 days got bad ball pain watery semen and bad erections .I stopped but then decided to try

- A month or two later 3 percent in Neogenic after one day i got the same sides but this time made me feel more depressed and out of it. so

-finally two months later I tried 3 percent KB and still same sides but the depressed feeling was the worst

Now something that I got every time I tried it was an immediate reducing in shedding for the one or two days after applying it BUT it would then take me into a really bad shed. Every time i tried it I would have a bad shed And itch lasting one or two weeks this was more evident the second two times i tried it. It has led me to believe that blocking receptors and then unblocking can have some sort of an increased sensitivity effect.

And RU58441 when it goes into you blood and it does definitely has systemic effects even though it only blocks receptors. It took me about a week each time to recover from sides , and the sheds that I experienced made me lose a noticeable amount of density in a short time one or two weeks.

sdsurfin
02-21-2015, 02:09 AM
Shit man. Has anyone had a consistently good experience with RU? I didn't know people were getting fin-like side effects.

Kudu
02-21-2015, 05:22 AM
Hey guys, just wanted to chime in on how RU is working for me. I started using Anageninc's 5% solution a few weeks ago, I've seen a slight increase in shedding, nothing really cosmetically noticeable just the smaller hairs that were useless anyway. Overall though, my scalp is less oily and most of my itch and irritation has gone away which is funny because I thought the ethanol would cause more irritation. As for side effects? Absolutely nothing. I was really worried about it but my sex drive and everything else hasn't changed one bit.

Anyway, how can RU cause the receptor to become more sensitive? I've heard this before but I've never seen any evidence of it.

sdsurfin
02-21-2015, 11:04 AM
So I was reading this on a forum about something totally different, but I think the same thing comes into play with androgen receptor blockers: "

antagonists will usually cause upregulation. Block a receptor from being activated, and cascades of reactions will take place to increase receptor density. A good example is beta blockers. This is exactly the reason behind the idea of tapering off them rather than abrupt withdrawal, as given sufficient time and blockade, a large increase in receptor density will precipitate a massive catecholaminergic response, and consequential ischemia and heart attacks (which are pretty hard to treat relative to typical atherosclerotic/thrombotic ischemic events)"

This would explain why people have such fluctuating experiences with RU. I'm not gonna use it even though I ordered some, I don't think blocking receptors is the way to go when it comes to solving any health issues, because when you stop blocking them there is going to be hell to pay. Unfortunately the new PGD2 drugs work by blocking receptors too, but at least in that case they are not messing with your androgen receptors and your hormonal balance, and might get us over the hump to cell based treatments like replicel.

Swooping
02-21-2015, 03:21 PM
So I was reading this on a forum about something totally different, but I think the same thing comes into play with androgen receptor blockers: "

antagonists will usually cause upregulation. Block a receptor from being activated, and cascades of reactions will take place to increase receptor density. A good example is beta blockers. This is exactly the reason behind the idea of tapering off them rather than abrupt withdrawal, as given sufficient time and blockade, a large increase in receptor density will precipitate a massive catecholaminergic response, and consequential ischemia and heart attacks (which are pretty hard to treat relative to typical atherosclerotic/thrombotic ischemic events)"

This would explain why people have such fluctuating experiences with RU. I'm not gonna use it even though I ordered some, I don't think blocking receptors is the way to go when it comes to solving any health issues, because when you stop blocking them there is going to be hell to pay. Unfortunately the new PGD2 drugs work by blocking receptors too, but at least in that case they are not messing with your androgen receptors and your hormonal balance, and might get us over the hump to cell based treatments like replicel.

This definitely doesn't apply to non-steroidal anti-androgens like RU. It's all bro science.

sdsurfin
02-21-2015, 04:41 PM
This definitely doesn't apply to non-steroidal anti-androgens like RU. It's all bro science.

How do you know swooping? Not questioning you, just curious. It doesn't seem like RU is steady in the long run and this might explain it. The body definitely tends to up regulate receptors if they are blocked in many cases. Please shed light.

Also intersted in this same potential with setipiprant and OC, how do we know that they are not going to basically make us more prone to PGD2 damage by blocking the receptors and making our cells basically make more receptors. this would make sense as to why people have withdrawals on cetirizine i really don't know, would love expert input.

Hairismylife
02-22-2015, 12:58 PM
This definitely doesn't apply to non-steroidal anti-androgens like RU. It's all bro science.

What's the difference of being non-steroidal?

sdsurfin
02-22-2015, 02:52 PM
So I tried ru for the first time and have not had the intense dudes I for from fin. My balls did feel kinda dull ache, but very mild. They do seem to not wanna hang like usual (sorry tmi) , do people experience this on ru? I'll say one thing, the mpb itch went away instantly. Like unreal. Been dying cetirizine which helped but nothing like this, the itch is extinct in ru in kb solution. If I can start using OC or setipip at a good price then I prob won't use ru, but maybe once in a while to kill the itch.

sdsurfin
02-22-2015, 03:17 PM
Also has anyone been on RU for several years at this point? Interested to know what it's been like for people long term.

burtandernie
02-22-2015, 04:12 PM
Thats my big issue with RU just lack of information on it and the reliability of the manufacturing of it. It probably works though. Its odd that so many men including me have that itch that seems related to androgens, but there has never been any actual scientific connection between the two that I know of. Right now I am just debating propecia or RU or wait for something better since I only have minor loss and its going slowly

lilpauly
02-22-2015, 04:32 PM
Thats my big issue with RU just lack of information on it and the reliability of the manufacturing of it. It probably works though. Its odd that so many men including me have that itch that seems related to androgens, but there has never been any actual scientific connection between the two that I know of. Right now I am just debating propecia or RU or wait for something better since I only have minor loss and its going slowly
Jump on fin . 99.99 people don't have sides , ifs safer then aspirin

burtandernie
02-22-2015, 05:35 PM
A little off topic but if my doc wont prescribe fin and I saw a derm instead to get it could I have my normal doc refill the prescriptions? I dont want to keep seeing a derm for cost reasons since doc is cheaper but doc wont prescribe it. I figured the cost of generic fin is like 30 a month but if I take the .25mg its a fourth of that price which isnt too bad so it might be worth trying.

sdsurfin
02-22-2015, 05:58 PM
Ugh nut pain increasing with RU. We really gotta get on the OC and setipip train, these anti androgens are the worst.

Illusion
02-23-2015, 05:09 AM
Ugh nut pain increasing with RU.

What dosage are you using? You can always try to lower your dosage to the point the sides are getting tolerable (or to the point where you don't have sides anymore at all).

But if it's just nut pain then I'd ride it out for a couple of weeks, I recall more people reporting that side effect during the first few weeks they were on fin and it disappeared after a few weeks or a month or so.

sdsurfin
02-23-2015, 12:27 PM
The nut pain was worse for me on fin (as well as overall lack of well-being due to 5ar inhibition. if you do research on 5ar it affects all sorts of parts in the body). Also it didn't go away for me on fin. It makes sense that RU would do the same, the DHT receptor that RU blocs is in your hair, your balls, your prostate, and your adrenals. My prostate and my balls both hurt mildly, and my hair feels great. Not sure if messing with my balls and prostate is a good idea, but i will try to ride it out for a while. If I can get my hands on OC and BIM at a reasonable rate though I'm definitely getting off the RU. Blocking PGD2 is so much safer, DHT basically makes your body feel manly and good.

burtandernie
02-23-2015, 04:15 PM
There are decent reasons why I have never tried propecia or RU yet. I never really wanted to, and there are good reasons doctors dont hand out propecia or other AAs out to men like free samples. Its all there is but I still dont like the idea of internal hormone changes long term its just asking for a problem eventually it seems.

Swooping
02-23-2015, 05:08 PM
How do you know swooping? Not questioning you, just curious. It doesn't seem like RU is steady in the long run and this might explain it. The body definitely tends to up regulate receptors if they are blocked in many cases. Please shed light.

Also intersted in this same potential with setipiprant and OC, how do we know that they are not going to basically make us more prone to PGD2 damage by blocking the receptors and making our cells basically make more receptors. this would make sense as to why people have withdrawals on cetirizine i really don't know, would love expert input.

Castration or androgen deprivation can actually lead to downregulation of AR and administering androgens subsequently blocks this effect. It isn't the other way around. Supraphysiological levels of androgens for instance can lead to upregulation of AR. Anti-androgens are furthermore used as a treatments against prostate cancer which is often hormone driven (cancer cells can mutate and adapt though). Would be a bit stupid to use them for that if they could increase AR sensitivity or expression right? RU is perfectly stable in the long turn for many people. It's just not stable for everyone, but so is finasteride. That's the bitch of androgenetic alopecia. If you want stability for everyone, castration is the only answer. Simple as that.

I can't really answer your 2nd question, because I haven't read enough studies regarding the whole PGD2 pathway and such. I'm not that hyped for the whole PGD2 story though. You would have to research it.


What's the difference of being non-steroidal?

A steroidal anti androgen like cyproterone acetate doesn't only bind to the androgen receptor, the pharmalogical activity is broader. I don't remember exactly through which mechanism and how it does, but using cyproterone acetate can actually make your testosterone levels rise while being on it, especially when going on a high dosage. Therefore they recommend to slowly taper off the treatment instead of abrupt withdrawal as that may cause a rebound effect of higher testosterone. This doesn't have to do with the binding to the AR though. Also this doesn't have the case to be for a steroidal anti androgen like CB-03-01 though obviously. The only current steroidal anti-androgen that is on the market AFAIK is cyproterone acetate.

ghostrider
03-15-2015, 01:40 PM
Swooping explain why ru58841 is side free and FDA approved fina causing puffy nippels. Because ru58841 is similar to androgen ?


Castration or androgen deprivation can actually lead to downregulation of AR and administering androgens subsequently blocks this effect. It isn't the other way around. Supraphysiological levels of androgens for instance can lead to upregulation of AR. Anti-androgens are furthermore used as a treatments against prostate cancer which is often hormone driven (cancer cells can mutate and adapt though). Would be a bit stupid to use them for that if they could increase AR sensitivity or expression right? RU is perfectly stable in the long turn for many people. It's just not stable for everyone, but so is finasteride. That's the bitch of androgenetic alopecia. If you want stability for everyone, castration is the only answer. Simple as that.

I can't really answer your 2nd question, because I haven't read enough studies regarding the whole PGD2 pathway and such. I'm not that hyped for the whole PGD2 story though. You would have to research it.



A steroidal anti androgen like cyproterone acetate doesn't only bind to the androgen receptor, the pharmalogical activity is broader. I don't remember exactly through which mechanism and how it does, but using cyproterone acetate can actually make your testosterone levels rise while being on it, especially when going on a high dosage. Therefore they recommend to slowly taper off the treatment instead of abrupt withdrawal as that may cause a rebound effect of higher testosterone. This doesn't have to do with the binding to the AR though. Also this doesn't have the case to be for a steroidal anti androgen like CB-03-01 though obviously. The only current steroidal anti-androgen that is on the market AFAIK is cyproterone acetate.

sdsurfin
03-15-2015, 02:22 PM
Finasteride is also a steroidal 5ar inhibitor. RU from my experience is equally capable if giving bad sides, is highly unproven for safety, although prob doesn't have the broad cognitive etc sides that fin can have. It was enough that it made my nuts hurt tons and hide like frightened children. Scary stuff. All these treatments are pretty BS. Trying to take shots at pathways that aren't the complete picture. If replicel or setipiprant don't work, and those are huge ifs, then I don't have much hope for a reliable and easy to maintain treatment. Everything else is too big a pain in the ass for most sane men.

burtandernie
03-15-2015, 02:29 PM
Why is shipping on anageninc 25 dollars with priority ground as only option? Why cant I pick standard ground which is a lot cheaper instead. I dont get that big waste of money there.
I think CB could be the answer going the AA route, but its clear a bunch of forum people arent going to figure it all out lose dose and everything. You need company resources so you just have to wait. Im not convinced its not powerful enough or is too expensive like people guess because the company has already went this far with it and is still pursuing it.
RU probably goes systemic still I mean it makes good sense that is why they canned it.

ghostrider
03-16-2015, 01:37 PM
Thanks mate,

You must be very unlucky. Hopefully stemmcell treatments arrive soon enough.The majority of dudes seem to tollerate ru58841 very well. Someone pointed out important factor about Ru58841 . The drug stays 1 hour in in our blood. Is this because it's not androgen like propecia perhaps?

I'm having no sides or whatsoever, hair gradually improving.



Finasteride is also a steroidal 5ar inhibitor. RU from my experience is equally capable if giving bad sides, is highly unproven for safety, although prob doesn't have the broad cognitive etc sides that fin can have. It was enough that it made my nuts hurt tons and hide like frightened children. Scary stuff. All these treatments are pretty BS. Trying to take shots at pathways that aren't the complete picture. If replicel or setipiprant don't work, and those are huge ifs, then I don't have much hope for a reliable and easy to maintain treatment. Everything else is too big a pain in the ass for most sane men.

burtandernie
03-16-2015, 03:38 PM
Maybe I can ask them if they can add shipping options like say amazon so I can pick standard ground and save like 10 bucks. 25 is a lot of money to ship a little container of some RU i mean the stuff itself is like 40

lilpauly
03-16-2015, 03:48 PM
Maybe I can ask them if they can add shipping options like say amazon so I can pick standard ground and save like 10 bucks. 25 is a lot of money to ship a little container of some RU i mean the stuff itself is like 40 U should jump on fin first with minox . I guarantee this all u need .

burtandernie
03-17-2015, 03:12 PM
U should jump on fin first with minox . I guarantee this all u need .

I know fin is probably the smarter choice but I dont think my doc will prescribe it. I might go that route in the near future. Im also not a big fan of the systemic hormone route for a cosmetic issue. That is the only reason for trying RU is the hope it wont go systemic very much and I dont plan on using much except at temples with a low percent like 3. If I was drinking the stuff I wouldnt touch it because its from random supplier in china but topicals make so much more sense. I agree though it could cause issues or go systemic who really knows.
Im not sure fin can hold the very front hairline which is what I want to stop the NW 1.5/2

burtandernie
03-18-2015, 05:58 PM
Im only interested in premade stuff. Has anyone bought or ever tested RU from here - http://www.aarc-chems.com/ru58841-liquid-solution because this stuff ships for 5 dollars in US while the other normal places most people seem to buy from cost 25 for shipping. 25 dollars to ship a bottle of liquid verses 5?

Swooping
03-19-2015, 03:54 AM
Finasteride is also a steroidal 5ar inhibitor. RU from my experience is equally capable if giving bad sides, is highly unproven for safety, although prob doesn't have the broad cognitive etc sides that fin can have. It was enough that it made my nuts hurt tons and hide like frightened children. Scary stuff. All these treatments are pretty BS. Trying to take shots at pathways that aren't the complete picture. If replicel or setipiprant don't work, and those are huge ifs, then I don't have much hope for a reliable and easy to maintain treatment. Everything else is too big a pain in the ass for most sane men.

Finasteride works in 9/10 people for maintenance. Less than 10% get sides and that is on the high end. I guess you are unlucky to be susceptible to side effects too. Anyway if you don't go on either fin, dut or ru you are going to lose hair simple as that. Every second counts. Your choice to make. Read this study;

http://www.synergypublishers.com/jms/index.php/gjdv/article/view/701/347


Media reports, Internet sites and misinformation by alternative medicine practitioners recently contributed to a negative image associated with finasteride, leading to apprehension and concern among patients taking the medication. Frequently, even dermatologists seem to be hesitant to prescribe the drug for long periods, mistakenly fearing the occurrence of long-term side effects. Finasteride, either alone or in combination with topical minoxidil, is an excellent option for men with androgenetic alopecia, reducing hair loss, and/or restoring hair growth in 9 of 10 patients. The drug can be taken at any time of the day, with or without food. There are no reports of significant drug interactions or allergies. Because it is metabolized in the liver, the drug should be used with caution in patients with liver diseases, but there is no need to indicate liver function tests frequently yet.





Swooping explain why ru58841 is side free and FDA approved fina causing puffy nippels. Because ru58841 is similar to androgen ?

RU can have sides too and can cause puffy nipples too. Nonetheless I think a topical androgen receptor antagonist has a more favorable action than systematical 5ar2 inhibition. It's more efficient and straight to the target that way and doesn't alter hormones. If you want to know more I suggest you start go reading. There is more than enough information around.

Tenma
03-19-2015, 11:36 AM
Finasteride works in 9/10 people for maintenance.

Well a young men with aga has a 25-30% chance to lose some hair on fin.

the 10 year fin study showed that those with high androgen levels showed the poorest results long term.

Dont get me wrong, i think propecia should be everyone first step when it comes to aga but for some it might not be enough.

Dut seems to be a better option for those people, i think.

According to a very recent study published by glaxo tt performed really well long term: 99% kept or improved their hair over 4 years!

Tenma
03-19-2015, 11:44 AM
In my opinion the perfect combo is DUT+RU. It will cause a dramatic impact on dht at the hf level, even comparable to castration (in the case of ru locally, thanks god lol).

But its important to start with good hair because if dht caused too much damaged, nothing will work unless you are very lucky

Swooping
03-19-2015, 12:51 PM
Well a young men with aga has a 25-30% chance to lose some hair on fin.

the 10 year fin study showed that those with high androgen levels showed the poorest results long term.

Dont get me wrong, i think propecia should be everyone first step when it comes to aga but for some it might not be enough.

Dut seems to be a better option for those people, i think.

According to a very recent study published by glaxo tt performed really well long term: 99% kept or improved their hair over 4 years!

Very good points. I concur with you that the mean ~70% dht inhibition finasteride gives isn't suffice for some people. But as you mention then you have DUT left for those people. RU is also a possibility and combining them as you mention just is a preventative cure for everyone. Starting early is the key indeed, preventing the damage is so damn important.

burtandernie
03-19-2015, 03:18 PM
I guess by default it means no but has anyone got RU from here -http://www.aarc-chems.com/ru58841-liquid-solution is this stuff legit or third party tested by anyone? Its a lot cheaper so I would rather try this. The biggest negative about RU is not knowing the legitimacy of the chemical your getting.

ghostrider
03-19-2015, 05:02 PM
I wouldn't compromise when it's about my hair.
Quality is very important for ru58841 to work.
Aarc and ru solutions.com gave me this huge shedding with increased oily itching scalp. It is probably mixed with some cheaper chemicals. Not sure what it is.

I switched back to kanes k&b 5% which seems to work fine.

Currently looking for some decent regrowth. I will receive my oc next week hopefully.

Anyone combining ru+minox +pdg2?

Tenma
03-19-2015, 05:02 PM
i buy the premixed from kane. i wasnt really hopeful at first given the ru stability debate. but its really working for me

i have no idea about aarc chems though.

also use the ru solution over the first two months to have some peace of mind regarding precipitation issues

burtandernie
03-19-2015, 05:08 PM
Okay so other places dont seem to be as good. My gripe is its 25 to ship on anageninc but 5 on aarc. I mean your talking stuff your buying many times over the course of years so its a lot of money long term for nothing. They also say the solution lasts about a year under decent conditions like out of sun light so I think using it in a few months is a bit too cautious.

ghostrider
03-19-2015, 05:15 PM
Buying in bulk would be your best bet. It is very easy to mix yourself though. Powder is stable for years. You cold pop some powder in your minox and you're done ;) personally I'd preffer the k&b solution. I'm personally to lazy to mix myself but it shouldn't be that hard. Why aren't you trying fin at first. My dermatologist recommended me starting with approved treatments at first. Which I tried.

lilpauly
03-19-2015, 05:23 PM
Burtanderine why don't u buy Susan's Minox fin formula ?

lilpauly
03-19-2015, 05:25 PM
Burtandefine why don't u buy Susan's fin Minox formula

burtandernie
03-20-2015, 10:28 AM
No idea what that is and I dont want minox just fin for maintaining. I would be happy simply keeping what I have without altering hormone levels long term. RU assuming it had some reliable supplier is sadly the best there seems to be still

burtandernie
03-23-2015, 10:14 AM
Is RU safe to use? I read some old posts from a few years ago where some guy had heart problems and thought it was from RU. That kind of thing can be kind of worrying in a drug that really isnt approved and you dont know if the stuff you took was even legit or if it was contaminated with other stuff. To me topical and targeting receptors always made a lot more sense than the propecia approach. That is what everyone wants the most powerful AA that is safe too and the only way to do that is topically.

Trouse5858
03-23-2015, 10:20 AM
I'm on it right now. I definitely think it has given me shortness of breath after applying it and has caused mild chest pain that I would liken to heartburn. Overall, not a great sign but then again, watch a drug commercial on TV and listen to the laundry list of side effects. It's unfortunate but I since I couldn't take fin which would have helped me a ton, I'm rolling the dice on RU.

burtandernie
03-23-2015, 11:30 AM
Yeah that doesnt sound good. Maybe I should go hassle my doc and see if I can go the finasteride route before trying RU. RU sounds like as much of a gamble as fin. I have no idea where all the no sides from RU talk comes from. Just because it targets receptors doesnt mean much of anything. Could certainly cause problems still. I really wanted to avoid fin but RU doesnt sound much safer so who knows I guess. The wonderful world of MPB

Trouse5858
03-23-2015, 11:52 AM
Haha it really is such a pain in the ass that a medication even close to as strong as fin hasn't come out without the sexual sides. I took propecia for literally 3 weeks before I noticed the sexual sides. It took another 2 weeks or so after stopping that I could get erections again. I realize that sounds like it may be too short of a time period to really gauge anything about a drug or experience full-blown side effects but this did not seem like a placebo effect.

I've been thinking recently about switching back to fin and seeing if I can tolerate it better. I think the reason people like myself are more comfortable with RU is because the side effects just aren't as bad. Gyno sucks but mine isn't noticeable to anyone other than myself. ED is simply the worst thing you can have, balding or not. If I could have the benefits of fin without ED, I'd sign up for all the brain fog and headaches it can dish out, it's just a trade-off.

RockyMtn
03-23-2015, 04:53 PM
i buy the premixed from kane. i wasnt really hopeful at first given the ru stability debate. but its really working for me

i have no idea about aarc chems though.

also use the ru solution over the first two months to have some peace of mind regarding precipitation issues

Hey Tenma, when you state "it's really working for me", how so? What has RU done for you to date, and how long have you used it? Thanks!

Tenma
03-23-2015, 07:00 PM
Hey Tenma, when you state "it's really working for me", how so? What has RU done for you to date, and how long have you used it? Thanks!

What im seeing is a noticeable thickening all over my NW2. something hairline, which I find somewhat shocking because im using antiandrogens since 2005 and never really had much regrowth ( like most people i think) until i started using the ru.

I was on fin for 5 years and switched to dut in 2013. That change didnt really impact on any way. I continued keeping hair on dut.

The reason i added ru was its mode of action. Antagonizing receptors is a very nice adition to every antiandrogenic treatment.

RockyMtn
03-23-2015, 07:25 PM
Thanks, Tenma. That's great to hear things seem to be working for you. Is the thickening you are seeing a thickening of existing hair, or new regrowth? Or both?

And were you using the Kane premixed solution, or making your own? Also, how long have you been sing RU?

Tenma
03-23-2015, 07:30 PM
Thanks! is the premixed solution from anageninc (kane us and europe office i heard).

Im a diffuse thinner so mainly existing hair but the change is really encouraging given i started ru last january.

burtandernie
03-23-2015, 07:36 PM
I dont know the concentrations but RU is certainly much more powerful an AA than finasteride in terms of chemical potency I think. I might be wrong but I thought it could get near castration levels of androgens so I mean in theory its much more powerful than finasteride so I dont doubt it gets real results assuming the many things like purity, potency and so on are all correct. The androgen route cant do more than maintain though.
The power of the chemical though is what makes me nervous about using it.

Swooping
03-23-2015, 09:23 PM
What im seeing is a noticeable thickening all over my NW2. something hairline, which I find somewhat shocking because im using antiandrogens since 2005 and never really had much regrowth ( like most people i think) until i started using the ru.

I was on fin for 5 years and switched to dut in 2013. That change didnt really impact on any way. I continued keeping hair on dut.

The reason i added ru was its mode of action. Antagonizing receptors is a very nice adition to every antiandrogenic treatment.

You had improvement after using dutasteride? Are you still on dut now? I find it pretty interesting that some people even if they are maintaining on finasteride or dutasteride get improvement if they add a topical anti androgen.

PinotQ
03-24-2015, 04:16 AM
Thanks! is the premixed solution from anageninc (kane us and europe office i heard).

Im a diffuse thinner so mainly existing hair but the change is really encouraging given i started ru last january.

Tenma, Do you mean January 2015 or January 2014? And any idea how many mg's of ru you apply daily? Once or twice? Thanks

Tenma
03-24-2015, 05:37 AM
You had improvement after using dutasteride? Are you still on dut now? I find it pretty interesting that some people even if they are maintaining on finasteride or dutasteride get improvement if they add a topical anti androgen.

Yep. Im still on dut now.

About the improvement, i find it odd too. the only logical explanation i can think of is the hypothesis of T playing a role in mpb too.

Tenma
03-24-2015, 05:40 AM
Tenma, Do you mean January 2015 or January 2014? And any idea how many mg's of ru you apply daily? Once or twice? Thanks

Started January 2015.

I use the 5% concentration, 1 ml (50 mg) per day

diffuse
03-24-2015, 12:53 PM
Do u guys get sides from RU (erection problems)? I'm using it with dermaroller 1mm since the end of january 60 mg (so it's 2 month now) daily in 2ml (ethanol/pg) to cover my entire diffuse scalp. In the begining I had a bit of nut pain but after 2 weeks it was gone and had zero sides. About a week ago i started noticing erection problems. My hair is great i have amazing results i will post pictures next months. I don't want to give up, do you think by lowering the dose down to 40mg could help??? I missed 1 application because i wanted to see what happens with my libido and erection and the sides were gone. Would it be effective if i use it every other day?

Please don't ignore me guys.

Thanks

PinotQ
03-24-2015, 02:54 PM
Do u guys get sides from RU (erection problems)? I'm using it with dermaroller 1mm since the end of january 60 mg (so it's 2 month now) daily in 2ml (ethanol/pg) to cover my entire diffuse scalp. In the begining I had a bit of nut pain but after 2 weeks it was gone and had zero sides. About a week ago i started noticing erection problems. My hair is great i have amazing results i will post pictures next months. I don't want to give up, do you think by lowering the dose down to 40mg could help??? I missed 1 application because i wanted to see what happens with my libido and erection and the sides were gone. Would it be effective if i use it every other day?

Please don't ignore me guys.

Thanks

I have been on it for 5 weeks. I started with 100mg and didn't really notice any libido or erectile issues but I have also never had any on Fin either. I did notice a sort of mild buzz in my head that seemed to last an hour or so that wasn't really a big deal. But that turned a little stronger and lasted longer at about the 3 week mark so I cut back to 60mg. Not noticing it much at all now. My hair seemed to perk up almost immediately after I started and there seemed to be a reduction in oil on my forehead and in my scalp. But my hair seems a little thinner now and although I don't count shed hairs, I did notice a few more after I showered (at about the 3rd or 4th week) but nothing drastic. Did you shed at all? Just a guess but b/c of the 1 hour half-life, it would probably be most effective when applied daily. I'm still learning and analyzing and may try a very small second application at night at the hairline. Also, where did you buy your ru?

diffuse
03-24-2015, 03:20 PM
I got it from Kane. I've been trough a terrible shed form December to February lost half of my hair, now a great regrowth the hairs are still short but pigmented strong one. I loose like 5 hairs in the shower and another 5 when i apply the RU and minox i guess it's normal. If the erection problem doesn't go away by reducing the dosage i'll consider taking some mild supplement in low doses which increases free testosterone levels or an aromatase inhibitor. I think it won't harm my hair because in my scalp the dht stays blocked, but i'm not a doctor. Sorry for my english im from hungary.

RockyMtn
03-24-2015, 06:23 PM
Thanks! is the premixed solution from anageninc (kane us and europe office i heard).

Im a diffuse thinner so mainly existing hair but the change is really encouraging given i started ru last january.

Do you feel like RU is showing benefits everywhere for you? I ask because I have diffuse thinning as well, and have decided it's RU time for me. Are you seeing positive things throughout the crown and front?

burtandernie
03-24-2015, 06:26 PM
Just out of curiosity has anyone using RU ever had any hormone tests to see their androgen levels before/after using it?

Tenma
03-24-2015, 06:46 PM
Do you feel like RU is showing benefits everywhere for you? I ask because I have diffuse thinning as well, and have decided it's RU time for me. Are you seeing positive things throughout the crown and front?

i use it only in the front, all throughout nw2-3 area.

Swooping
03-25-2015, 06:13 PM
Just out of curiosity has anyone using RU ever had any hormone tests to see their androgen levels before/after using it?

Some people have. Do a google search you will find them. No changes were reported by the ones who tested it. Nonetheless non-steroidal anti-androgens don't alter hormones even if they go systemic, there might be only a slight increase in testosterone.

burtandernie
03-25-2015, 08:23 PM
So assuming you get legit RU you think its pretty safe to use long term? I know it finished phase 2 in humans and no major issues. When people report heart issues and stuff like that it really makes me hesitant to try it. I just dont like the idea of internal drugs long term. It just seems very odd to me people getting fin like sides or heart issues from a drug that in theory only affects receptors and mainly acts locally to the scalp.

burtandernie
03-29-2015, 01:42 PM
Some people have. Do a google search you will find them. No changes were reported by the ones who tested it. Nonetheless non-steroidal anti-androgens don't alter hormones even if they go systemic, there might be only a slight increase in testosterone.

So you think RU is safer to use long term than say fin? There are people that have been on RU already for at least a year so I guess its time tested a little

Swooping
03-30-2015, 08:06 AM
So you think RU is safer to use long term than say fin? There are people that have been on RU already for at least a year so I guess its time tested a little

Can't say. Maybe, maybe not. The longest RU user is Elevation he is a 10 year user of RU at a dosage of 100-150mg a day. That's a very big dosage by the way. I find the mechanism of topical anti-androgens just more exciting. Yeah its definitely "time tested" by many users. If you really want to bring it far you could possibly test if RU accumulates systemic in your body by having your blood screened for RU and the metabolites. Anyway I can't say which one is safer. Nonetheless there is a huge chance you won't be having any problems at all with finasteride really. If you will, you could just quit and at least you would have tried it that way. The odds of you suffering from permanent side effects from it is incredibly small.

burtandernie
04-05-2015, 09:25 PM
Its legal than to buy RU for research purposes from somewhere like http://www.aarc-chems.com? I dont want to get arrested by DEA or something for buying it. Although I am thinking fin might be a safer first shot than RU.

ghostrider
04-06-2015, 05:18 AM
Yes ru is concodered as legal powder. It is not classiefied as a drug.

I have never run into issues with thekandshop or www.anageninc.com

Always Swift delivery and no authorities knocking on my door.

You'd better starting of with fin though. It's what I did in first place.

lilpauly
04-06-2015, 06:11 AM
Burtanderine why don't u try a custom topical fin product ?

lilpauly
04-06-2015, 06:14 AM
https://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showthread.php?17240-Dr-Klein-promox-patients%21-Read-if-you-need-help./page2

lilpauly
04-06-2015, 06:15 AM
If you are afraid or worried about potential sides from consuming fin then I highly suggest u try a topical formulation from the welliness center or dr Klien

Vincent777
04-07-2015, 12:29 AM
Hellouser are you still using RU bro? I am thinking of starting.

burtandernie
04-07-2015, 03:09 PM
I would gladly use a topical fin but where do you get it and I dont have propecia script. I dont want anything mixed with it just the fin itself. I still have pretty minor loss I just dont want the dangers of internal drugs if possible and im not sure how strong fin is at the hair line and temples where I need. RU is probably better there.

lilpauly
04-07-2015, 03:14 PM
I would gladly use a topical fin but where do you get it and I dont have propecia script. I dont want anything mixed with it just the fin itself. I still have pretty minor loss I just dont want the dangers of internal drugs if possible and im not sure how strong fin is at the hair line and temples where I need. RU is probably better there. U can get it from de Klien office I'm sure . Tbe welliness center can get U a script

burtandernie
04-07-2015, 03:15 PM
Where is the wellness center or klien office? I dont have to physically go there right? I think topical fin is safer than oral although probably goes systemic to a less extent still

lilpauly
04-07-2015, 03:18 PM
Where is the wellness center or klien office? I dont have to physically go there right? I think topical fin is safer than oral although probably goes systemic to a less extent still no U don't go there . I know for dr Klien u fill out a paper and U get approved . Wellingness center the same thing

burtandernie
04-07-2015, 04:05 PM
Actually maybe I will go see my local doc pretty soon and ask for fin. Once I get the script maybe I can see about getting a topical. Who makes the topical version of it or where would I go? Topical fin should be a readily available alternative to oral IMO.

nliyan25
04-08-2015, 06:09 PM
Do you guys think I would be able to premix RU before traveling and take it on carry on luggage?

RU58841
04-08-2015, 11:34 PM
I just traveled with it twice (in the US) with no problems. Just make sure you adhere to the TSA rules:


"containers must be 3.4 ounces or less; stored in a 1 quart/liter zip-top bag; 1 zip-top bag per person. Larger amounts of non-medicinal liquids, gels, and aerosols must be placed in checked baggage."

nliyan25
04-09-2015, 04:51 PM
I just traveled with it twice (in the US) with no problems. Just make sure you adhere to the TSA rules:


"containers must be 3.4 ounces or less; stored in a 1 quart/liter zip-top bag; 1 zip-top bag per person. Larger amounts of non-medicinal liquids, gels, and aerosols must be placed in checked baggage."

Silly question: a ziploc bag is the same thing as a zip-top bag, correct?

nliyan25
04-09-2015, 06:59 PM
Silly question: a ziploc bag is the same thing as a zip-top bag, correct?

Another question, did you mix it before you took it with you traveling? I'm mixing it with PG and Everclear before I go on my trip.

RU58841
04-10-2015, 01:23 AM
Silly question: a ziploc bag is the same thing as a zip-top bag, correct?


Another question, did you mix it before you took it with you traveling? I'm mixing it with PG and Everclear before I go on my trip.

I just put mine in a ziploc bag, I guess it's the same thing. Although I realized afterward that I had accidentally left a big tube of hair paste stuff in my bag (not the ziploc bag) and they didn't notice or say anything about it, so I wouldn't worry too much. Only things I've ever had questioned were a full bottle of water and once a big bottle of aloe.

As for the mixing, yeah, I had mixed it before traveling. I wanted to try taking a small amount of the powder to see if it would be a problem (which I'm sure it wouldn't be, I saw a guy mention taking his in powder form through the airport before), but just for convenience I premixed it (in KB solution).

Let me know if you notice a difference in libido after a few days of using it premixed? I felt like mine was higher after using a few days of RU premixed instead of mixed fresh and applied immediately like I usually do.

Enjoy the trip!

ghostrider
04-20-2015, 12:35 PM
Hello mates,

Finally got the test results back from the PHD. She run couple tests to determine the authenticity of ru58841. I'm currently 2 years on the ru58841, It worked great but had slightly stronger smell, so i had to be sure about the purity!

The batch is from kane and purchased in February.




Hello Kevin,

My utmost apologies for the drop in communication. I have been busy in professional and personal spectres.
To answer your question I am a university professor and organic research chemist at a State University and just found out my partner has epilepsy two weeks ago. It is the end of the semester,
so very busy in this regard, and have been in and out of the hospital over the last two weeks regarding my partner's condition.

I have run the spectra. It is beautiful! Definitely 99% pure or more. I will reduce this rate to $150.00 because I did not keep my word on timing.
Let me know if you would still like me to send the spectra and analysis summary.


All the Best,


Jennifer


analysis report
http://i61.tinypic.com/nez3w5.png

page1
http://i57.tinypic.com/14l6oeo.png

page 2
http://i61.tinypic.com/33oli12.png

diffuse
04-20-2015, 12:55 PM
Have you maintained with RU? Are you on fin also or RU alone and how much do you use ? :)

Thanks!

diffuseloser
04-20-2015, 04:34 PM
Thanks ghostrider. Good to know Kanes gear is still legit as that's where I consistently buy my RU from.

Illusion
04-21-2015, 01:58 PM
Would 50% propylene glycol / 30% alcohol / 20% water do the job as a vehicle for RU (low dosage, 50mg / 1ml)?

diffuseloser
04-21-2015, 02:37 PM
Not sure about the water mate. RU is only very partially soluble, if anything, in water, so it's best to use as little as possible. Better to up the propylene glycol to at least 70% and remove the water altogether or just use cheap minox as the vehicle. RU is the only thing that has really worked for me.

Illusion
04-21-2015, 03:03 PM
Not sure about the water mate. RU is only very partially soluble, if anything, in water, so it's best to use as little as possible. Better to up the propylene glycol to at least 70% and remove the water altogether or just use cheap minox as the vehicle. RU is the only thing that has really worked for me.

I know man, water is shit but I asked because my kirkland minox (AKA my cheap minox) exists of exactly those things in those concentrations but for some reason it doesn't do its job as a vehicle very good (that's likely due to the water). I have asked before in this thread about mixing RU and minox, but so far I haven't figured out if RU in minox does its job as well as RU in a steady 70/30 alcohol/pg vehicle (something I used to do before minox).

I'm glad to hear RU is working for you mate. I myself am not having that much succes with my regime or so it seems... It still seems like my hair line is thinning + receding and my whole scalp is itching like f*ck, even though I'm on 1mg fin + RU (low dose) + minox + nizoral. Here's to hoping the itching is actually from my cheap minox haha

diffuseloser
04-21-2015, 05:42 PM
Is there really that much water in Kirkland? That's the shit I use also. I thought it was closer to 5%? Then again, I haven't bothered to read the label. It seems to be working for me in that I haven't seemed to lose any more hair. The first couple of months I was on it I had surprisingly good regrowth, but that has stopped dead in it's tracks. I use minox as a vehicle out of pure laziness, but I do add a wee but of isopropyl to help things along. Thinking of changing the vehicle but it would become a pain in the ass to apply minox and RU daily as separate solutions.

Never had any issues with itching. I use Nizoral 3x per week and it definitely helps with that. I'm surprised you aren't having good results if you're on fin too. I'd never touch the stuff myself. I'm just hoping to hold on tight with RU until, hopefully, one of these many treatments we're all talking about actually turns out to do something for once. They can't all fail forever, right? Something's gotta give.

diffuse
04-22-2015, 04:20 AM
I don't know if it has happened to anyone else, but Kane is f *cking with my order. Ordered 2 weeks and still nothing i wrote 10+ emails they always say "we'll ship you today or tomorrow''.. They gave me a tracking number which is not working then they said sorry we've mad a mistake. I'm from Europe last time they shipped from their office in france. Now they finally admitted that "we are out of stock" but we will ship it today... that was the day before yesterday.. I'm running out of RU my hair is finally good and I don't want to loose ground..

joely
04-22-2015, 06:13 AM
Where in Europe are you? If you are in the UK I have some spare in powder form that may see you through until James shipment arrives

diffuse
04-22-2015, 06:19 AM
I'm from Hungary..

Illusion
04-22-2015, 06:59 AM
Is there really that much water in Kirkland? That's the shit I use also. I thought it was closer to 5%? Then again, I haven't bothered to read the label. It seems to be working for me in that I haven't seemed to lose any more hair. The first couple of months I was on it I had surprisingly good regrowth, but that has stopped dead in it's tracks. I use minox as a vehicle out of pure laziness, but I do add a wee but of isopropyl to help things along. Thinking of changing the vehicle but it would become a pain in the ass to apply minox and RU daily as separate solutions.

Never had any issues with itching. I use Nizoral 3x per week and it definitely helps with that. I'm surprised you aren't having good results if you're on fin too. I'd never touch the stuff myself. I'm just hoping to hold on tight with RU until, hopefully, one of these many treatments we're all talking about actually turns out to do something for once. They can't all fail forever, right? Something's gotta give.

Regarding the bolded, my thoughts exactly. I used 1 ml minox + 0.4ml ethanol + 0.1ml pg (so 1.5ml total) as a vehicle for my RU for a while and it was decent, only problem was that I ran out of RU a lot quicker as I needed more RU to get the same concentration. I could make this vehicle again with the same proportions of minox:ethanol:pg for a total of 1ml but the problem I then have is that there wouldn't be that much minox in it anymore (well, it's 'only' 0.33ml less but still, don't really wanna go below 1ml minox).


And yes, I believe there's that much water in Kirkland. You can find this information anywhere on the bottle though, I googled it and multiple sites said that Kirkland contained 30% alcohol, 50% propylene glycol and (purified) water. It didn't say how much water but as there weren't any other compounds described, I naturally assumed that it had to be 20% (purified) water.

Btw I'm surprised too! I guess it's just very aggressive mpb. I'll ride out the 1 full year as recommended but I'm already thinking of switching to dut, even though I'm not a big fan of DUT. I can also increase my RU dosage because I'm using a low dosage atm (RU is kind of expensive and I'm just a poor student), that might help too. It feels good to have at least a few backup plans, even though those backup plans aren't the most desirable ones.

But like you said, let's hope new things come out soon!

hairbackpls
04-22-2015, 09:41 AM
Hey quick question

I can't get 95% alcohol in my country without prescription.. What would u suggest me to use as a vehicle for RU? KB or minoxidil? or is there other way?

I could also order ready solution from anageninc wich is 8% RU in PG+Ethanol, but i have read many bad things about premixed solutions...

pls halp :,D

joely
04-22-2015, 10:40 AM
Hey quick question

I can't get 95% alcohol in my country without prescription.. What would u suggest me to use as a vehicle for RU? KB or minoxidil? or is there other way?

I could also order ready solution from anageninc wich is 8% RU in PG+Ethanol, but i have read many bad things about premixed solutions...

pls halp :,D

I use anagenincs 3% solution, I order two bottles at a time and its working really well for me

Illusion
04-22-2015, 11:48 AM
And yes, I believe there's that much water in Kirkland. You can't find this information anywhere on the bottle though, I googled it and multiple sites said that Kirkland contained 30% alcohol, 50% propylene glycol and (purified) water. It didn't say how much water but as there weren't any other compounds described, I naturally assumed that it had to be 20% (purified) water.

whoops, typo. Just for clarification (couldn't edit my post anymore)

VegetaDBZ
04-23-2015, 08:47 AM
I am on finasteride for 3 year now but my hair in the front is receding.

I see that RU is very popular these days...

Anyone who is on both fin+RU..?

reedstiffer
04-23-2015, 02:08 PM
I use anagenincs 3% solution, I order two bottles at a time and its working really well for me

joely could you point me in the direction to purchase that?

Illusion
04-23-2015, 02:31 PM
I am on finasteride for 3 year now but my hair in the front is receding.

I see that RU is very popular these days...

Anyone who is on both fin+RU..?


I'm on both fin and RU but I've been too short on both to really say anything about it... Been on fin for about 2.5 months and on RU for about 5 months (although last month I didn't really keep up with it...)

Anyway I haven't really seen a lot of results as of yet but it's too soon to say anything, so I can't really help you.

Have you considered getting on dutasteride instead of going fin+RU?

burtandernie
04-23-2015, 03:15 PM
The thing I find more appealing about RU is just that I can use however much I want in specific spots like the temples or where there is tiny hair without affecting anything else. Although I would admit fin is much less a hassle to use especially where you have hair still.

Agustin Araujo
04-23-2015, 04:05 PM
Thank you so much for this RU58841 guide hellouser, it helped me out a lot.

Binford
04-23-2015, 06:40 PM
Hi fellas, I'm a newbie so I'm sorry if my question is a dumb one. First thx hellouser for the wicked write up. I'm looking to get on this as right now im only on minox and a shampoo. First question, are there reported sides from RU? And from looking at the picture and making my shopping list, i get what everything there is except cb-03-01. Any help would be great and any info on group buys of ru or seti would be even better. Thx folks

Binford
04-23-2015, 06:54 PM
Sorry i just realized this thread is a bit old, if guys are still using RU please let me know if you experienced any sides. Thx

Seuxin
04-24-2015, 02:37 AM
Hello,

I would like to know a thing.
Today, is there a possibility to create a one-month supply batch with good stability ?

For example, if i mix RU in a eth/pg/water, or, in a minox bootle, for one month ( 60ml for example).

If i stored the bootle in the fridge or a freezer, the ru will be good for one month ? Or i definitively need to make a batch for 3-4 days ?

Thanks :)

burtandernie
04-24-2015, 03:25 PM
People in here say RU doesnt stay stable long but most of the sites selling premade RU solutions say its fine for 6 months in a dark cool place. I guess I would believe the guys selling it. 6 months is a whole lot longer than a week some people claim.
Where are safe places to get it? Kane and anagen but what about aarc chems that is cheaper? Its legal to buy it and I dont have to be licensed chemist? I dont want to go to jail for getting RU

Seuxin
04-25-2015, 03:39 AM
Yes, but the real question is to know if these premade RU have the same efficacity....
We don't know i think, no ?

ghostrider
04-25-2015, 04:20 AM
Hello mates,

Finally got the test results back from the PHD. She run couple tests to determine the authenticity of ru58841. I'm currently 2 years on the ru58841, It worked great but had slightly stronger smell, so i had to be sure about the purity!

The batch is from kane and purchased in February.


Hello Kevin,

My utmost apologies for the drop in communication. I have been busy in professional and personal spectres.
To answer your question I am a university professor and organic research chemist at a State University and just found out my partner has epilepsy two weeks ago. It is the end of the semester,
so very busy in this regard, and have been in and out of the hospital over the last two weeks regarding my partner's condition.

I have run the spectra. It is beautiful! Definitely 99% pure or more. I will reduce this rate to $150.00 because I did not keep my word on timing.
Let me know if you would still like me to send the spectra and analysis summary.


All the Best,


Jennifer





analysis report
http://i61.tinypic.com/nez3w5.png

page1
http://i57.tinypic.com/14l6oeo.png

page 2
http://i61.tinypic.com/33oli12.png


Have you maintained with RU? Are you on fin also or RU alone and how much do you use ? :)

Thanks!



thanks mates! Fin was the first thing my dermatologist prescribed me, you can find my experience in here;


https://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showthread.php?17737-Collecting-RU-58841-pictures%21&p=200320&viewfull=1#post200320



Hi great topic. My dermatologist prescribed me propecia 3 years ago but I started developing puffy nipples shortly after. I've decided to drop fina and started experimenting with ru58841

I have been using ru58841 5% k&b from kane for almost 2 years now, and hair is still doing better.

My regime is ru minox +biotin tabs. I will add oc000459-ethanol next month for more regrowth

Looking forward to oc000459 and sepip.

VegetaDBZ
04-26-2015, 10:00 AM
I'm on both fin and RU but I've been too short on both to really say anything about it... Been on fin for about 2.5 months and on RU for about 5 months (although last month I didn't really keep up with it...)

Anyway I haven't really seen a lot of results as of yet but it's too soon to say anything, so I can't really help you.

Have you considered getting on dutasteride instead of going fin+RU?

No.

I read that RU is good at hairline and it is where I recede slowly currently.....

So I go to add RU :D :D

burtandernie
04-27-2015, 03:37 PM
The nice thing with RU is you can use it just at say the temples without risk of say shedding like hell all over your head with say propecia or some systemic AA. Although anything can happen with a purely experimental chemical I guess.
Its just a shame RU never was studied more fully or come out for acne or anything. Customs im sure is happy to see white powder of an unknown substance like RU heck they ripped apart a shampoo I bought from a different country. Those guys are ruthless but I cant blame them. I dont need the DEA kicking in my door because I got some unknown chem from china.

burtandernie
04-28-2015, 03:46 PM
What is the legality of buying RU online where it comes from China as a research chemical? I Mean is it perfectly legal then to buy it in US?

ghostrider
04-28-2015, 03:52 PM
Hello mates,
Anyone tried bio? Kane offers it on his site : http://www.thekaneshop.com/special-products/6-bio-wnt-agonist.html

I read it's much more potent then smo..

Combination with ru58841 + minoxidil + oc000459 + igf1 should give stunning regrowth

burtandernie
04-30-2015, 03:23 PM
Does anyone know if buying RU then is perfectly legal say in US? I just read some stuff that research chems are kind of a grey area of the law. I mean RU is not a controlled or banned chemical so its not considered illegal.

ghostrider
05-02-2015, 02:37 PM
Hello mate,

I received ru many times without a problem. It's shipped from USA now days. So. No customs.

The law allow you to import research chemicals without restrictions. Lucky us.


My hair is still improving after 2 years usage. My guess ru stops inflammation and recover old hairs somehow.

burtandernie
05-02-2015, 04:42 PM
I have no doubts RU works, but I still debate some whether fin or RU is safer to use. I read a story about a guy who had heart problems he said were from RU. What organs have androgen receptors in the body does the heart? I know prostate, hair, skin, but are there others? It makes me a little nervous what systemic RU would do all over the body or the metabolites after RU breaks down that last much longer than RU itself.
RU is androgen antagonist and a mighty powerful one at that but something that strong going systemic could be bad.

Seuxin
05-03-2015, 04:39 AM
If you don't want systemic effect use RUM instead of RU !

diffuse
05-03-2015, 01:56 PM
Ghostrider how much RU are you using?

Thanks

RU58841
05-03-2015, 03:46 PM
If you don't want systemic effect use RUM instead of RU !

But where do you get RUM? I realized I missed the group buy on that other site and now I'm curious because I don't see it anywhere.

burtandernie
05-03-2015, 04:55 PM
Does anyone know what organs or where androgen receptors are in the body that RU could effect? Are they found in the heart or other vital organs?

Justinian
05-03-2015, 05:12 PM
Does anyone know what organs or where androgen receptors are in the body that RU could effect? Are they found in the heart or other vital organs?

Look up androgen insensitivity syndrome if you want to see the worst possible case scenario/

lukey
05-04-2015, 04:49 AM
Is there any difference between mono propylene glycol and just propylene glycol? Is the mono version ok to use?

champpy
05-04-2015, 10:29 PM
I have no idea Lukey. Ive been asking the same thing and nobody has really given me a definitive answer. I just ordered some FOOD GRADE pg, so hope it works.

burtandernie
05-09-2015, 06:26 PM
I just read some study saying the heart has two androgen receptors one for T and one for DHT. Its pretty risky IMO to take a chance that you could alter receptors in heart cells long term. Maybe that cant happen or makes no difference but its scary to think about in a drug with little safety information. I am probably gonna go fin if my doc gives prescription but RU sounds so good in theory.

Plan C
05-10-2015, 03:09 AM
I just read some study saying the heart has two androgen receptors one for T and one for DHT. Its pretty risky IMO to take a chance that you could alter receptors in heart cells long term. Maybe that cant happen or makes no difference but its scary to think about in a drug with little safety information. I am probably gonna go fin if my doc gives prescription but RU sounds so good in theory.

Cheers for ruining my Sunday.

SOTF
05-10-2015, 08:21 AM
I just read some study saying the heart has two androgen receptors one for T and one for DHT. Its pretty risky IMO to take a chance that you could alter receptors in heart cells long term. Maybe that cant happen or makes no difference but its scary to think about in a drug with little safety information. I am probably gonna go fin if my doc gives prescription but RU sounds so good in theory.

Do more reading. At least get the correct information. You're running in circles. Do you have a problem committing to things in all areas of life? At some point, calculated risk must be taken.

The Guevedoces of the Dominican, whom are pseudohermaphrodites, lack the DHT enzyme. They are born as females and with the testosterone surge during puberty, turn into functioning males. There is no difference health wise, heart wise between them and men with DHT surging through their veins. The only difference? They have no hairline recession and can't grow beards worth a damn.

win200
05-11-2015, 09:37 AM
Two quick RU questions:

I ordered a batch from Kane around 6-8 months ago, then put it in the freezer and forgot about it. Is it still good?

Also, I know I read advice somewhere about whether to apply RU before or after minox (I used foam). Can anyone remind me how to stack these treatments?

Thanks!

RU58841
05-12-2015, 12:07 AM
Two quick RU questions:

I ordered a batch from Kane around 6-8 months ago, then put it in the freezer and forgot about it. Is it still good?


Yeah. Forms from Kane say "Date of EXP one year." Also, the last batch I got (in January) came with forms identifying it as "ROS RU" and said that it would stay good for a year even at room temperature. Not sure which you have but if you had it frozen the whole time, it should be fine.


Also, I know I read advice somewhere about whether to apply RU before or after minox (I used foam). Can anyone remind me how to stack these treatments?


Documentation for (liquid) minoxidil says to keep the hair and scalp dry for 4 hours after applying. RU solution usually dries in seconds, so you'd think RU then minoxidil afterward. Not sure what vehicle you're using for your RU though, if it's K&B that has like a film to it that maybe could interfere with the minoxidil, but that's just speculation.

Personally I use the minoxidil early, take a shower later and wash my scalp, then use the RU afterward because I'm just not sure.

champpy
05-12-2015, 01:15 AM
Can someone tell me if I did something wrong. Just applied my first RU batch tonight. Afterward my hair felt slightly sticky and coarse. It almost looked like it had a white tint to it as well. Is this just residue from the RU solution sticking to my hair or could there be something else wrong with what I did?
Thanks for any suggestions

RU58841
05-15-2015, 06:43 PM
Can someone tell me if I did something wrong. Just applied my first RU batch tonight. Afterward my hair felt slightly sticky and coarse. It almost looked like it had a white tint to it as well. Is this just residue from the RU solution sticking to my hair or could there be something else wrong with what I did?
Thanks for any suggestions

That sounds consistent with how it is for me, so I don't think you're doing it wrong.

cuprous
05-16-2015, 09:52 AM
If you don't want systemic effect use RUM instead of RU !

Sorry but could you (or anyone else) elaborate on that? I know RUM is RU myristate which I've read is the "prodrug" version of RU but I have no idea what that means.

Everything else I've read is that there's no good vehicle for it. Plus it doesn't seem like anyone sells it so perhaps it's all a moot point.

Frankthetank
05-16-2015, 03:06 PM
few random questions... if you discontinue using RU will you lose any progress you made on it (is it similar in that way to rogaine/finasteride)? Also, is there generally a shedding period with it?

RU58841
05-18-2015, 07:16 AM
Sorry but could you (or anyone else) elaborate on that? I know RUM is RU myristate which I've read is the "prodrug" version of RU but I have no idea what that means.

Everything else I've read is that there's no good vehicle for it. Plus it doesn't seem like anyone sells it so perhaps it's all a moot point.

Yeah, been trying to figure this out too, but I don't see people raving about it. And I don't see it sold anywhere either. I guess if it worked nobody would be using the non-myristate version.

RU58841
05-18-2015, 07:19 AM
few random questions... if you discontinue using RU will you lose any progress you made on it (is it similar in that way to rogaine/finasteride)? Also, is there generally a shedding period with it?

I'm not sure if you'll lose progress, I'll guess yes just because it seems to be that way with everything else. (Does anyone know the scientific explanation for this? Never did understand why this happens; reflex hyperandrogenicity?)

As for shedding, I don't think I've seen anyone report shedding upon starting RU. Most people seem to report a reduction in shedding very quickly upon beginning it.

VegetaDBZ
05-19-2015, 06:21 AM
I got question....

What dosage do most people take.....??

50 milligram?

Frankthetank
05-19-2015, 07:36 AM
Thanks for the reply RU58841.

I am definitely considering using RU but I just began Dut yesterday (made the switch after a year of finasteride). It is probably logical for me to wait a few months before experimenting with RU anyways to be able to isolate/determine the effects dut has on me

dus
05-19-2015, 03:03 PM
Would Spectral DNCN - Nanoxidil be a suitable vehicle for RU application? Can't stand minox and am willing to give this a try.

RU58841
05-20-2015, 07:53 AM
I got question....

What dosage do most people take.....??

50 milligram?

30mg-100mg/day seems to be the range. I don't see many (if any) people going over 100mg. Start low and increase it to see how you react!


I am definitely considering using RU but I just began Dut yesterday (made the switch after a year of finasteride). It is probably logical for me to wait a few months before experimenting with RU anyways to be able to isolate/determine the effects dut has on me

Good strategy, I wish I were that patient when it comes to this stuff :[


Would Spectral DNCN - Nanoxidil be a suitable vehicle for RU application? Can't stand minox and am willing to give this a try.

What's in that? I know that RU doesn't really dissolve in solvents with water. People have mixed it successfully in Neogenic though, so if the composition of that is similar to Spectral, then maybe...

VegetaDBZ
05-22-2015, 06:54 AM
30mg-100mg/day seems to be the range. I don't see many (if any) people going over 100mg. Start low and increase it to see how you react!


Thx..!! I got RU delivered only wait for weighing scale now....

Will start with 50mg a day.

Will let know how it goes...!

xLeox
05-24-2015, 03:16 AM
just curious regarding what % do you guys are using RU at. I've started it in December, one month 7% and then 5%. Been working great for 5 months, now It seems it lost some effect. I was thinking of going back to preparing it at 7%, or even a higher %. I know a guy who tested different % and found out ru worked for him at 10% and he has been using it at that percentage for a while by now. anybody in the same situation that upped the percentage after a few months and got any stable improuvements?

RU58841
05-25-2015, 04:05 PM
Hm, what makes you say it's lost effectiveness? Increase in shedding or something? Any change in side effects?

xLeox
05-26-2015, 03:03 AM
Hm, what makes you say it's lost effectiveness? Increase in shedding or something? Any change in side effects?

I noticed side effects only for a few days back when I started ru. I haven't seen any worth mentioning shedding, but I noticed my right temple is getting worse, returning to the same situation before I started ru. my guess is that after some months, just like any other lotion,it loses effectiveness. same thing happened with minoxidil + antiandrogens lotion (which I'm still using), but its effectiveness lasted way longer than ru.

champpy
05-26-2015, 12:19 PM
xLeon, can I ask how long before you noticed any benefit from using RU?

general RU question...I ordered my RU from Kaneshop, and noticed that it has a slight scent to it. I want to say it almost smells like chlorine?? Is that normal and has anyone else noticed that too?

ALM
05-26-2015, 08:49 PM
I stay relatively low profile on this site but I have to agree with xLeox. I've been on RU now for over 8 months and what benefit I was getting from it in the first 4 months has reversed to more shedding versus growth. It's definitely not the answer we've all been waiting for, but I'll stay true to the regimen for another 6 months to see what happens.

xLeox
05-27-2015, 02:04 AM
xLeon, can I ask how long before you noticed any benefit from using RU?


almost immediately. besides stopping the shedding phase, rather than a real regrowth, I think RU it made my hair thicker and stronger.


I stay relatively low profile on this site but I have to agree with xLeox. I've been on RU now for over 8 months and what benefit I was getting from it in the first 4 months has reversed to more shedding versus growth. It's definitely not the answer we've all been waiting for, but I'll stay true to the regimen for another 6 months to see what happens.


what % are you using RU at? I think the only way (I hope I'm wrong) to get back those progress is upping the %. considering all the downsides (chance of having sides, spending even more money on it) if that gave me guarantee to stop for a consistent amount of time (I'm talking years, not months) the shedding process, I'd be down for it. but what if after 6 months, things get worse again? I'm not sure it's worth doing it then.

diffuseloser
05-27-2015, 03:11 AM
I'm in the same boat. I had almost immediate results with RU. Serious thickening of existing hair and coverage improved dramatically. Now, almost a year later, I'm back to where I was before. Maybe even worse. Scalp is showing and hair is thin all over the top. Hairline is looking pretty bad too. Depressing as hell. I'm debating what step to take from here. An increase dose? A vehicle change? Both? Shave it off and drop all treatments? I'm not getting my hopes up for any new miracle treatment either. I can't take fin so my options are very limited. I think I will up dosage to 50+mg but I haven't decided on new vehicle yet. Its between neogenic and ethanol/PG.

diffuse
05-27-2015, 09:40 AM
I'm in the same boat. I had almost immediate results with RU. Serious thickening of existing hair and coverage improved dramatically. Now, almost a year later, I'm back to where I was before. Maybe even worse. Scalp is showing and hair is thin all over the top. Hairline is looking pretty bad too. Depressing as hell. I'm debating what step to take from here. An increase dose? A vehicle change? Both? Shave it off and drop all treatments? I'm not getting my hopes up for any new miracle treatment either. I can't take fin so my options are very limited. I think I will up dosage to 50+mg but I haven't decided on new vehicle yet. Its between neogenic and ethanol/PG.

Have you tried low dosage of fin? maybe 0,5 mg EOD or 1mg 3x times a week?

I'm using it for 2 weeks, 1mg finpecia ED without problems.

champpy
05-27-2015, 10:13 AM
Wow this got depressing real quick. So nobody is really having great success with RU? And if my shedding hasnt improved by now then its not looking like this will be of any benefit for my situation. What a bummer of a day... Here i was hoping RU would at least buy me a cpl years worth of time

diffuseloser
05-27-2015, 10:48 AM
Yeah, well I have a couple of months supply of Dr Reddy's fin in my cupboard which I haven't touched except for 1/4 of one pill 0.25mg and sadly I freaked out and haven't touched the stuff since. Psychologically, I am not a good candidate for finasteride. Don't want to take the risk even though I know I would probably respond well. I may change my mind and have been avoiding reading the horror stories. RU definitely works but I have come to the stage where I have to evaluate whether I should continue using it and if so, how will I prepare and apply it. I will definitely need to increase the dosage.

champpy
05-27-2015, 11:26 AM
I believe this is the same thing that Hellhouser (I think it was him, might have been another poster) documented happened to him too. His hair would improve for a month or so, then shed and thin out and then regrow. It seems like it would phase in and out of working

xLeox
05-29-2015, 02:12 AM
I'm debating what step to take from here. An increase dose? A vehicle change? Both? Shave it off and drop all treatments? I'm not getting my hopes up for any new miracle treatment either. I can't take fin so my options are very limited. I think I will up dosage to 50+mg but I haven't decided on new vehicle yet. Its between neogenic and ethanol/PG.

If you up the dosage, you're very likely to get improuvements again. if you do it, keep us posted on the outcome. I would rather up the ru dose than take dutasteride anyway. if I was granted me that from upping the dose from 5% to 8%, I would regain improuvements and keep the situation stable for 2 years at least, I would do it then. cause this is all about buying as much time as possible. but hey, what if after 6 months, it loses effectiveness again. that would be frustrating. vehicle related, I use ethanol, I think it's totally proper. plus, having to mix ru everyday with neogenic would be a total bummer.

brocktherock
05-29-2015, 07:04 AM
If you up the dosage, you're very likely to get improuvements again. if you do it, keep us posted on the outcome. I would rather up the ru dose than take dutasteride anyway. if I was granted me that from upping the dose from 5% to 8%, I would regain improuvements and keep the situation stable for 2 years at least, I would do it then. cause this is all about buying as much time as possible. but hey, what if after 6 months, it loses effectiveness again. that would be frustrating. vehicle related, I use ethanol, I think it's totally proper. plus, having to mix ru everyday with neogenic would be a total bummer. I use finasteride with RU and hopefully it stabilizes my results. I just switched to minox foam and I started shedding again, Im hoping its not from RU.

robodoc
05-29-2015, 01:40 PM
Dude, I feel for you. Losing your hair is devasting to many of us. Here is my thoughts on your dilemma.

No matter how dismal your results may appear, continue what you are taking. We all know the best products, I use that word loosely, are Fin, Minox, RU, RPC,supplements, new stem cell products and of course a good diet, vitamins. I use Nizoral shampoo, I use CAFFEINe and most of what I have mentioned. I still have some hair but who really knows if it all my efforts work.

My personal experience, one year, was that RU did nothing for me. I can't explain the side effects, it was hard to pinpoint but seemed to affect my libido. I know the results are suppose to be dose related, meaning using a high dose may work whereas a low dose may not. I saw no improvement at 25mg/ml.

You may slow your hair loss until something like AAPE turns out to a winner and using the aforementioned in conjuction with AAPE may help to regrow some hair. I don't read everything here but it looks like STEM cells is best remedy at the moment. As I said in another post, our best treatment options are the kitchen sink strategy, in other words try all viable products. I don't mean the experimental junk, I mean products that have SOME success in the literature or medical studies. Hang in there.

VegetaDBZ
06-02-2015, 07:42 PM
Just started out RU.....for half week now....

Hope it will thicken up hair and stabilize more..

Zero sides till now which is a good thing....!

Dench57
06-04-2015, 06:51 AM
Noob question regarding the premade solutions:

Kane's 50mg/ml solution - roughly how long would this bottle last if I'm just applying on temples/frontal hairline? At first I thought it was roughly 2ml application a day, like with Fluridil or whatever....but I see people saying they're using 20-30mg/ml a day? How the hell are people affording like 30 a day? Or is buying powder and mixing yourself the only affordable option?

Dench57
06-04-2015, 06:52 AM
EDIT - Deleted double-post

Illusion
06-04-2015, 11:30 AM
Noob question regarding the premade solutions:

Kane's 50mg/ml solution - roughly how long would this bottle last if I'm just applying on temples/frontal hairline? At first I thought it was roughly 2ml application a day, like with Fluridil or whatever....but I see people saying they're using 20-30mg/ml a day? How the hell are people affording like 30 a day? Or is buying powder and mixing yourself the only affordable option?

20-30mg/ml says nothing about the amount of solution someone is using, it just means that for every 1 ml solution they use, there's 20-30mg RU in it.

I think most people use an amount of 1.0ml - 2.0ml. It really depends on how big of an area you need to cover with your RU solution and how efficient you can use the RU. With the latter I simply mean that people who apply a topical for the first time usually spread the stuff out unevenly or something like that. But you'll get the hang of it soon, so don't worry about that.

If you use 2.0 ml a day at a strength of 50mg/ml, it means you'll use 100mg RU a day which means one batch of 10g will last you 100 days. I don't know how much it will cost you as this will depend on shipping costs, but for this would be approx. $1.80/day.

Dench57
06-05-2015, 04:30 AM
20-30mg/ml says nothing about the amount of solution someone is using, it just means that for every 1 ml solution they use, there's 20-30mg RU in it.

I think most people use an amount of 1.0ml - 2.0ml. It really depends on how big of an area you need to cover with your RU solution and how efficient you can use the RU. With the latter I simply mean that people who apply a topical for the first time usually spread the stuff out unevenly or something like that. But you'll get the hang of it soon, so don't worry about that.

If you use 2.0 ml a day at a strength of 50mg/ml, it means you'll use 100mg RU a day which means one batch of 10g will last you 100 days. I don't know how much it will cost you as this will depend on shipping costs, but for this would be approx. $1.80/day.

Yeah that makes sense, silly me. thanks

ghostrider
06-08-2015, 04:38 PM
Hello mates!

anyone combining OC-ethanol + RU58841? it looks like its cutting the shedding further down to 15-25 hairs a day, hair still improving even before starting OC.

ghostrider
06-08-2015, 04:38 PM
I want to know if people are having success mixing RU with Lipogain.

Swooping
06-12-2015, 08:23 AM
I want to know if people are having success mixing RU with Lipogain.

Many vehicles will do I guess as long as there is enough ethanol in the vehicle to dissolve the RU. All a matter of preference.

Pate
06-14-2015, 04:52 AM
Many vehicles will do I guess as long as there is enough ethanol in the vehicle to dissolve the RU. All a matter of preference.

I've been using RU dissolved in generic minox and it's not too bad, but nowhere near as good as the premixed stuff in KB. It seems to dissolve okay, but when I apply it, after it dries it starts to come out of solution and leaves a grainy powder on my scalp. It's not a lot of powder compared to the amount of RU going into it, but given how expensive the stuff is I don't want any left behind!

I think I will need to buy some Everclear and dissolve the RU in that, and then transfer that to the minox. I'm thinking if I had 0.5 mL of ethanol to 1ml of minox and then apply 1.5 mL per day, that should be enough ethanol to dissolve it properly.

On the plus side, the combined RU and minox is working really well at stopping my shedding, as well as nuking my oily scalp.