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View Full Version : What is the next weapon if finasteride doesnt work?



secrethero89
04-24-2013, 04:54 PM
the guys who dont respond to finasteride,did you find any succesfull treatment instead of finasteride??

FearTheLoss
04-24-2013, 05:02 PM
Your next best bet would be RU or CB..and obviously minox

25 going on 65
04-24-2013, 05:29 PM
the guys who dont respond to finasteride,did you find any succesfull treatment instead of finasteride??

Dutasteride

thatkidd
04-24-2013, 06:16 PM
Dutasteride

Watch this, gave me manboobs after 8 pills, 2 a week for four weeks.....

If you see the slightest sign of gyno, stop and immediately get on a estrogen blocker.

You say RU and CB like they are easily attainable, this isn't the case is it?

Thinning87
04-24-2013, 11:11 PM
the guys who dont respond to finasteride,did you find any succesfull treatment instead of finasteride??

Yes! Check this out it works great! Alternative to Finasteride (http://www.principalspage.com/theblog/wp-content/uploads//2007/12/razor2.jpg)

Shan
04-25-2013, 10:31 AM
Yes! Check this out it works great! Alternative to Finasteride (http://www.principalspage.com/theblog/wp-content/uploads//2007/12/razor2.jpg)

Funny bro.

Probably Dut but you should be on Fin for a god 12 - 15 months before changing

rdawg
04-25-2013, 12:47 PM
Dutasteride if you wanna get a little more extreme.

Otherwise just stay on fin if you don't experience sides and wait for say BIM and Histogen to launch in the next 2-4 years.

WarLord
04-27-2013, 07:31 AM
Watch this, gave me manboobs after 8 pills, 2 a week for four weeks.....

If you see the slightest sign of gyno, stop and immediately get on a estrogen blocker.

You say RU and CB like they are easily attainable, this isn't the case is it?

As far as I know, this happens in ca. 0.5% men. But in ca. 50% men on this forum LOL

WarLord
04-27-2013, 07:34 AM
Funny bro.

Probably Dut but you should be on Fin for a god 12 - 15 months before changing

He doesn't have to be on finasteride for 12-15 months. Why? Was he sentenced to it by some tribunal? He can go straight on dutasteride. Why to waste 12-15 months on a medication that may not work, when he can jump on dutasteride and have almost 100% chance to succeed?

Soxfaninfl
04-29-2013, 10:51 AM
Fin should always be used first over Dut. The reason is your more likely to have side effects with DUT because it blocks a lot more DHT than Fin does. Read the article from Bald Truth where Spencer Kobren discusses the differences between the two. Dut should only be used if Fin doesn't work. You have to give Fin a year to see if it works for you. Fin works for 9 out of 10 men. Those are pretty good odds.

According to Spencer Kobren:

"Propecia should always be your first line of attack. According to clinical trials you have almost a 90% chance of stopping the progression of your hair loss and a significant chance of regrowing hair that’s been lost within the past 5 years or so. If you fall within the small percentage of men who do not see benefits from Propecia you can always talk to your doctor about the possibility of using Dutasteride."

http://www.thebaldtruth.com/ask-questions/propecia-vs-avodart/

WarLord
04-30-2013, 12:43 PM
Fin should always be used first over Dut. The reason is your more likely to have side effects with DUT because it blocks a lot more DHT than Fin does. Read the article from Bald Truth where Spencer Kobren discusses the differences between the two. Dut should only be used if Fin doesn't work. You have to give Fin a year to see if it works for you. Fin works for 9 out of 10 men. Those are pretty good odds.

According to Spencer Kobren:

"Propecia should always be your first line of attack. According to clinical trials you have almost a 90% chance of stopping the progression of your hair loss and a significant chance of regrowing hair that’s been lost within the past 5 years or so. If you fall within the small percentage of men who do not see benefits from Propecia you can always talk to your doctor about the possibility of using Dutasteride."

http://www.thebaldtruth.com/ask-questions/propecia-vs-avodart/

...and if it doesn't work, you will end up totally frustrated and broken, with a lot of hair gone forever, and you will post a video on YouTube showing how you are throwing finasteride pills into a toilet bowl.

Why should anybody start with a less efficient medication, when he can have a much better result with a more efficient one? Remember that the results are usually dictated by Murphy's laws - similarly like in my case. I was afraid that finasteride wouldn't work and that it would further exacerbate my hairloss. And this exactly happened.

As I already wrote elsewhere, the chances of young men are lower than 90%. It is more like 80%, and there is also a higher probability that their hairloss will renew in the following years. Furtermore, they lose hair at a pretty fast rate. I repeat: IF YOU ARE YOUNG AND YOUR HAIRLOSS IS FAST, DON'T PLAY WITH FINASTERIDE AND JUMP DIRECTLY ON DUTASTERIDE!

This clever boy understood it very early:
http://www.*****************/interact/showthread.php/48633-Nickypoos-s-Story-%2819-2-Years-Full-Temple-Regrowth-Dut%29

One of the funniest things is the eroneous idea that dutasteride produces more side effects, because it is "stronger". However, this has never been demonstrated. The differences between fin and dut in this regard are minute. In fact, as for the "sexual side effects" (the most feared by certain groups of men), dut can actually increase libido, which is logical, owing to its more profound effect on testosterone levels.

thatkidd
04-30-2013, 06:01 PM
As far as I know, this happens in ca. 0.5% men. But in ca. 50% men on this forum LOL

Yeah I'm one of the lucky ones that Propecia doesn't work for after 4 years of use and I can't take DUT because of this problem. I dont know what "ca. 0.5% of men" means...the ca part.

But yeah I'm sure it is super rare....why me, why me.

marikeo
04-30-2013, 07:35 PM
Your next best bet would be RU or CB..and obviously minox

Can you tell me how you order RU?

Thanks!

FearTheLoss
04-30-2013, 08:10 PM
Can you tell me how you order RU?

Thanks!

Through PHG, they have group buys to get it cheap and the admin tests it to make sure it's real so we don't get any fake stuff..PHG is a private forum specializing in cutting edge treatments.

19nbald
04-30-2013, 08:58 PM
I've never had any issues with Avodart. No breast growth, or impotence issues. Maybe lower sex drive? I don't know. I can't be certain. Which basically means, if I can't be certain it's not an issue enough to give you any warnings.
Try it out, but remember everyone is different, so you may experience Gyno but I would say it's a long shot!

marikeo
04-30-2013, 09:31 PM
Through PHG, they have group buys to get it cheap and the admin tests it to make sure it's real so we don't get any fake stuff..PHG is a private forum specializing in cutting edge treatments.

Sorry for the ignorant question. What is PHG? Is there a link to get in the queue for a group buy?

Appreciate your quick reply!

WarLord
05-01-2013, 01:37 AM
Yeah I'm one of the lucky ones that Propecia doesn't work for after 4 years of use and I can't take DUT because of this problem. I dont know what "ca. 0.5% of men" means...the ca part.

But yeah I'm sure it is super rare....why me, why me.

If you have gyno, you can counterbalance it with anti-estrogens. It is too early to give it up.

hellouser
05-01-2013, 11:53 AM
Your next best bet would be RU or CB..and obviously minox

Should be the first bet, lol. Ive had GREAT results off RU and Minox.

thatkidd
05-01-2013, 04:03 PM
If you have gyno, you can counterbalance it with anti-estrogens. It is too early to give it up.

My Endocrinologist put me on Clomid which I took for two months (I waited until about a month and a half after seeing the first signs of gyno to start taking it) and it didn't help at all.

I then tried a steroid forma stanzol which apparently destroys gyno, but I used it for about three weeks and it didn't seem to work and I felt my hair was getting worse (even though people mentioned it should block DHT if anything).

IDK what else I could try, I'm about 6 months from first signs of gyno....any ideas? I know there is Letro but idk how to get it or if it would make my hair fall out (or if it would even be able to help my gyno at this stage)

WarLord
05-02-2013, 09:15 AM
Should be the first bet, lol. Ive had GREAT results off RU and Minox.

Yes, his hair will probably thicken after RU. But it also depends on the thickness of his wallet.

WarLord
05-02-2013, 09:21 AM
My Endocrinologist put me on Clomid which I took for two months (I waited until about a month and a half after seeing the first signs of gyno to start taking it) and it didn't help at all.

I then tried a steroid forma stanzol which apparently destroys gyno, but I used it for about three weeks and it didn't seem to work and I felt my hair was getting worse (even though people mentioned it should block DHT if anything).

IDK what else I could try, I'm about 6 months from first signs of gyno....any ideas? I know there is Letro but idk how to get it or if it would make my hair fall out (or if it would even be able to help my gyno at this stage)

Anti-estrogens will increase your testosterone, and the increase may be quite dramatic. Routinely it is about +60% (exemestane, tamoxifen, anastrozole), but letrozole can boost your test by +200%! And I saw some studies, in which anti-estrogens disproportionately increased DHT. In any case, they will lower SHBG, which will increase the proportion of free androgens. In summary, they are not the best choice for a MPB sufferer. They may get you into a vicious circle.

Nevertheless, small doses of anastrozole (something like 0.25 mg/day) may be a good compromise. But first of all, you must map your hormonal levels in detail: testosterone, DHT, estradiol, free testosterone, SHBG...

marikeo
05-02-2013, 09:27 AM
Sorry for the ignorant question. What is PHG? Is there a link to get in the queue for a group buy?

Appreciate your quick reply!

Just bumping this question. How specifically can I order RU?

Thanks
Mark

thatkidd
05-07-2013, 05:21 PM
Anti-estrogens will increase your testosterone, and the increase may be quite dramatic. Routinely it is about +60% (exemestane, tamoxifen, anastrozole), but letrozole can boost your test by +200%! And I saw some studies, in which anti-estrogens disproportionately increased DHT. In any case, they will lower SHBG, which will increase the proportion of free androgens. In summary, they are not the best choice for a MPB sufferer. They may get you into a vicious circle.

Nevertheless, small doses of anastrozole (something like 0.25 mg/day) may be a good compromise. But first of all, you must map your hormonal levels in detail: testosterone, DHT, estradiol, free testosterone, SHBG...

WarLord, my endo did blood work on me and said my test levels are normal and my estrogen levels were also completely normal right during my gyno coming on.

He said what probably happened is that the Avodart made my breast tissue more suseptable to the amount of estrogen in my body and caused the growth. So in other words, not an increase in estrogen that caused it, but an increase in my bodies sensitivity to the normal estrogen levels in my body. SUCKS.

I tried forma stanzol which if you do a search is shown to kill gyno and from what I read it shouldn't have increased DHT. However this seemed to make my hair a decent amount worse after two weeks and didn't help the gyno at all so I stopped. Clomid didn't work either. My hair is really sensitive and also in pretty bad shape...so I don't think Letro is something I would try.

$5,000 for surgery isn't the worst thing ever I guess...

WarLord
05-08-2013, 02:38 AM
WarLord, my endo did blood work on me and said my test levels are normal and my estrogen levels were also completely normal right during my gyno coming on.

He said what probably happened is that the Avodart made my breast tissue more suseptable to the amount of estrogen in my body and caused the growth. So in other words, not an increase in estrogen that caused it, but an increase in my bodies sensitivity to the normal estrogen levels in my body. SUCKS.

I tried forma stanzol which if you do a search is shown to kill gyno and from what I read it shouldn't have increased DHT. However this seemed to make my hair a decent amount worse after two weeks and didn't help the gyno at all so I stopped. Clomid didn't work either. My hair is really sensitive and also in pretty bad shape...so I don't think Letro is something I would try.

$5,000 for surgery isn't the worst thing ever I guess...

Do you have the exact numbers? I really don't know, how dut could increase the sensitivity of your estrogen receptors. Rather, it should do the opposite. Remember that if you don't know your initial levels, you have no idea about the degree of hormonal changes in your body. Your levels may be "normal", but the shifts within the "normal" range may have been substantial.

thatkidd
05-08-2013, 04:06 PM
Do you have the exact numbers? I really don't know, how dut could increase the sensitivity of your estrogen receptors. Rather, it should do the opposite. Remember that if you don't know your initial levels, you have no idea about the degree of hormonal changes in your body. Your levels may be "normal", but the shifts within the "normal" range may have been substantial.

I do not have levels from before the Avodart I do not believe. Does normal bloodwork have DHT levels as well or not?

I had bloodwork done like 3 years ago...idk if I could compare that with now or not and see where the estrogen levels are. Either way, the only variable was Avodart, and after 8 pills over one month I started to see a little gyno. Immediately stopped and about a month later got on Clomid and it continued to get worse...now it has reached steady state and is moderately bad...

Avodart caused me to gain a bunch of weight too so I'm sure that is contributing to the gyno.

Thanks for your input though, I haven't had anyone to talk about this with so I appreciate it.

hwildcat
05-08-2013, 05:58 PM
I am in the same boat as the OP
Finasteride did nothing for me

I just ordered RU and dutasteride

I am not sure if I should stick with Fin and add RU to see if that works
Or drop Fin and go with RU and Dut

My only concern is that I dont want to overdo it right off the bat.

marikeo
05-08-2013, 07:12 PM
I am in the same boat as the OP
Finasteride did nothing for me

I just ordered RU and dutasteride

I am not sure if I should stick with Fin and add RU to see if that works
Or drop Fin and go with RU and Dut

My only concern is that I dont want to overdo it right off the bat.

I just ordered RU today as well. I would not recommend quitting Fin cold turkey. I would taper off slowly. And I wouldn't even do that until you are sure you are seeing results with RU.