Addressing root cause of male pattern baldness: a well known approach?

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  • Aston
    Member
    • Apr 2012
    • 82

    Addressing root cause of male pattern baldness: a well known approach?

    http://www.*******************/forum...d-prostate-101 (and links at the end of it)

    What in the world? Addressing root cause? Normalizing hormones? If this isn't complete madness then it feels to me like we are all quite stupid!
    I can't even see any flaw in the science of it yet, and i'm a biotech student...

    Edit: tch, link deleted, pasting below:

    "THE DETAILED CAUSES OF MALE PATTERN BALDNESS AND PROSTATE GROWTH

    Overview:

    when systemic progesterone and systemic cortisol levels are too low, this causes too high DHT metabolism in hair follicles which in turn causes excess free radical damage to the hair follicles on our head in areas where the blood flow is restricted ("due to genetic predisposition"). The additional lack of blood flow to hair follicles means the free radical damage to hair follicles cannot be repaired adequately.

    The same excess-free-radical-damage-due-to-excess-DHT-metabolism occurs in our prostate, inflaming our prostate causing either pain and / or constricting the urethra thus reducing urine flow.

    This overview omits a lot of important details, so you MUST also read the following detailed explanation before discounting the above info.

    Details:

    Relatively high levels of progesterone are necessary to compete with DHT for DHT receptors. When progesterone triggers a DHT receptor, then DHT cannot trigger that receptor, and the progesterone which enters the cell triggers progesterone's actions not DHT's actions.

    Relatively high levels of progesterone are necessary to upregulate the p53 tumor suppressor protein, which is postulated as one of the primary means of minimizing prostate tumors.

    Relatively high levels of cortisol are necessary to oppose / downregulate DHT metabolism. Cortisol acts directly on our genes to limit the ability of T and DHT to trigger their own genetic effects.

    When the cortisol-production-line hormones progesterone and cortisol are too downregulated, then cells will aromatase T into E2, and use the E2 to oppose T metabolism and DHT metabolism. To our cells, this is "Plan B". "Plan A" is to use progesterone and cortisol to oppose / downregulate T and DHT metabolism.

    While using E2 to oppose T metabolism and DHT metabolism works well in cells which absorb DHT from serum, it works very poorly in cells which manufacture their own DHT (eg: prostate, and hair follicles, ie: all cells with plenty of 5α reductase). Hence these cells continue to experience too high DHT metabolism even in the presence of too high E2.

    At the onset of male pattern baldness, our progesterone and our cortisol have gone too low, which would allow T metabolism and DHT metabolism to go too high, so our cells invoke their secondary defence mechanism and increase E2, and they then use E2 to oppose T metabolism and DHT metabolism.

    When progesterone is relatively too low, this spells that all of the cortisol-production-line hormones (eg: preg, prog, cortisol) are downregulated to below optimum, and this is why the solution is to restore the optimal hormone levels in the cortisol-production-line.


    HALTING AND POSSIBLY REVERSING MALE PATTERN BALDNESS
    Addressing The Root Cause

    Addressing the root cause requires boosting systemic progesterone (not necessarily by supplementating with progesterone) and boosting systemic cortisol (not necessarily by supplementing with HC, which is man made bioidentical cortisol), up to the level which balances systemic DHT metabolism.

    Unfortunately for most males, boosting the cortisol-production-line also requires boosting thyroid hormones T3 and T4, because once the cortisol-production-line hormones are lowered, our cells automatically downregulate our T3 to match our reduced cortisol levels, which creates an excess of T4 (T3 is made from T4). When our hypothalamus detects excess T4, it downregulates the synthesis of T4 in the thyroid gland.

    Unfortunately once our hypothalamus downregulates our T4, our body enters a very stable state with a reduced resting metabolic rate. When this occurs, boosting the cortisol-production-line hormones requires boosting our resting metabolic rate, and that requires a three phased solution approach, ie:

    Phase 1: Restore preg, prog and cortisol, via supplementary transdermal pregnenolone (or prog), to as good as can be achieved without thyroid hormones.

    Phase 2: Restore thyroid hormones, pref via supplementary slow-release-compounded T3 (not yet T4) and adjust both preg and T3 thyroid hormones together to achieve optimum balance as well as optimum levels of all cortisol-production-line hormones as well as optimum levels of thyroid hormones.

    Phase 3: Swap out as much T3 with T4 as possible (definitely possible) and swap out as much pregnenolone with dietary cholesterol as possile (less effective with increasing age)."
    Last edited by Aston; 05-26-2012, 02:58 PM. Reason: link obfuscated, pasting text
  • 2020
    Senior Member
    • Jan 2012
    • 1527

    #2
    yeah this was already posted on HLH back in 2011:



    do you really want to mess with your thyroid?

    Comment

    • Aston
      Member
      • Apr 2012
      • 82

      #3
      I'm already messing with my testicles and prostate with finasteride. I believe in cold science, and these guys are the first ones to use it since i started looking into male pattern baldness. Furthermore, more than the therapy itself, it's isolating the cause that is always the most important step, something which they seem to have done. There may be other ways to correct leptin resistance than those they propose as well...

      Comment

      • beatinghairloss
        Senior Member
        • May 2012
        • 213

        #4
        Originally posted by 2020
        yeah this was already posted on HLH back in 2011:



        do you really want to mess with your thyroid?
        I dont hear you knocking this guys clear cut science that decreased blood flow is a factor.

        Comment

        • 2020
          Senior Member
          • Jan 2012
          • 1527

          #5
          when systemic progesterone and systemic cortisol levels are too low, this causes too high DHT metabolism in hair follicles which in turn causes excess free radical damage to the hair follicles on our head in areas where the blood flow is restricted ("due to genetic predisposition"). The additional lack of blood flow to hair follicles means the free radical damage to hair follicles cannot be repaired adequately.
          again with the bloodflow... god damnit reading stupid theories like that is making me lose hair....

          IT HAS BEEN ALREADY PROVEN DECADES AND DECADES AGO THAT BLOODFLOW IS NOT A FACTOR IN MPB!!!

          Comment

          • beatinghairloss
            Senior Member
            • May 2012
            • 213

            #6
            Originally posted by 2020
            again with the bloodflow... god damnit reading stupid theories like that is making me lose hair....

            IT HAS BEEN ALREADY PROVEN DECADES AND DECADES AGO THAT BLOODFLOW IS NOT A FACTOR IN MPB!!!
            Are you blind or dumb? It suggest that decreased blood flow allows this hair loss....

            Comment

            • Aston
              Member
              • Apr 2012
              • 82

              #7
              I didn't even notice that detail. Can anyone link me to a study debunking inherent impaired blood flow in follicular capillaries? (Since 2020 says it has been proven.) The only studies i find are old, but confirm it instead.

              Comment

              • beatinghairloss
                Senior Member
                • May 2012
                • 213

                #8
                Originally posted by Aston
                I didn't even notice that detail. Can anyone link me to a study debunking inherent impaired blood flow in follicular capillaries? (Since 2020 says it has been proven.) The only studies i find are old, but confirm it instead.
                You just opened a can of worms you didn’t want to open. All that I have ever seen confirms lack of blood flow in balding areas and also that a tight scalp restricts blood flow thus rendering the top of your head the most blood flow stationary part in your body also explaining why you only lose hair and debunking this hole “single hair genetic predisposition”. But like I said the can of worms you just opened is now where 2020 tells you that facts says blood flow has nothing to do with it and then follows with studies regarding very few people and having less then reliable results to say the least. Good luck, watch out for the name calling the bald guys on this topic get rather feisty 

                Comment

                • beatinghairloss
                  Senior Member
                  • May 2012
                  • 213

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Aston
                  I didn't even notice that detail. Can anyone link me to a study debunking inherent impaired blood flow in follicular capillaries? (Since 2020 says it has been proven.) The only studies i find are old, but confirm it instead.
                  Botox clearly states why there product works and how it applies to releiving pressure....


                  Study shows that blood flow is decreased in areas balding and not in men with no MPB. remember this is cappilary blood flow not affected by hair count what so ever....btw I got in contact with this Docotor and he was amazed nobody did follow up studies and confirmed his findings with me.
                  Our study was designed to measure the transcutaneous PO2 of the scalp to determine if there was a relative microvascular insufficiency and associated tissue hypoxia in areas of hair loss in male pattern baldness. A controlled prospective study was performed at Butterworth Hospital, Grand Rapids, Mic …


                  Minoxodil is a vasodilater more specific to certain areas luckily for balding people it works well on the scalp... well kind of well

                  Comment

                  • Aston
                    Member
                    • Apr 2012
                    • 82

                    #10
                    Yeah, my point is this isn't open for discussion... inflammation constricts arteries. As we all know, hair loss is an inflammatory state caused by excess DHT (which my first post info links elegantly to a metabolic "insufficiency"). There is clear empirical data proving circulation is impeded in the balding areas of the scalp, just as there is evidence confirming the presence of inflammatory prostaglandins. I am really interested in what proof 2020 has for denying this.

                    Comment

                    • beatinghairloss
                      Senior Member
                      • May 2012
                      • 213

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Aston
                      Yeah, my point is this isn't open for discussion... inflammation constricts arteries. As we all know, hair loss is an inflammatory state caused by excess DHT (which my first post info links elegantly to a metabolic "insufficiency"). There is clear empirical data proving circulation is impeded in the balding areas of the scalp, just as there is evidence confirming the presence of inflammatory prostaglandins. I am really interested in what proof 2020 has for denying this.
                      Well you sound like a smart man let me really enlighten you.....

                      In a double-blind study with randomly assigned topical solutions of 0%, 1%, 3%, or 5% minoxidil, the blood flow in balding scalps of 16 human volunteers was measured by the noninvasive techniques of both laser Doppler velocimetry (LDV) and photopulse plethysmography (PPG). On two consecutive days, a …

                      this is the monoxdil study

                      http://joe.endocrinology-journals.or...3/439.abstract levels of hormones related to ejaculation.

                      Objective : To document the relative importance of endogenous sex steroids in modulating the frequency of orgasms, the dominant aspect of sexual behaviour in healthy eugonadal men. Design : Measurement of adrenal and testicular sex steroids in a sample of army recruits and study of their relation to frequency of orgasms ascertained by questionnaire after potential confounding variables were controlled for. Setting : Military campus and military hospital laboratories in Athens, Greece. Subjects : 92 consecutively enrolled healthy male recruits aged 18-22 years. Main outcome measures : Weekly number of orgasms. Serum concentrations of testosterone, dehydroepiandrosterone sulphate, dihydrotestosterone, oestradiol, oestrone, δ-4-androstenedione, and sex hormone binding globulin. Results : Serum dihydrotestosterone concentration was the only independent hormonal predictor of the frequency of orgasms; an increase in concentration of 1.36 nmol/l (about 2 SD) corresponded to an average increase of one orgasm a week. Conclusions : Differences in concentrations of circulating dihydrotestosterone within the normal range may represent a major predictor of sexual activity in healthy young men. #### Key messages

                      Shows ejaculating more often increases DHT

                      The sad part is people will argue "all that says is that people with more DHT have to ejaculate more"....really? come on if you have that little self control I suggest yoga.

                      Comment

                      • 2020
                        Senior Member
                        • Jan 2012
                        • 1527

                        #12
                        ****'s sake hold on, I'll make a separate thread where I debunk all circulation theories....

                        Comment

                        • Aston
                          Member
                          • Apr 2012
                          • 82

                          #13
                          Well, it doesn't matter. As i thought from the beginning and my first post confirms, MPB isn't even caused by DHT, as much as a lack of a DHT's agonist for the androgen receptor, progesterone, and DHT's metabolism inhibitor, cortisol.

                          Comment

                          • Tracy C
                            Senior Member
                            • Sep 2011
                            • 3125

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Aston
                            As i thought from the beginning and my first post confirms, MPB isn't even caused by DHT...
                            Ummm... You need to get back to the books. A multitude of doctors and researches have concluded and confirmed multiple times that follicular sensitivity to the damaging effects of DHT is the main cause of hereditary hair loss in both men and women. There are other types of hair loss though. Maybe you have been confusing information on those other types of hair loss as being the same as and/or applying to hereditary hair loss (MPB/FPB).

                            Comment

                            • Aston
                              Member
                              • Apr 2012
                              • 82

                              #15
                              Ummm... You need to get back to the books.
                              You didn't read my short post carefully, i fear. I don't deny DHT is part of the cascade of events, just like PGD2, but it isn't the source of that cascade. It isn't the "cause". People who lower their DHT don't solve their hormonal issue, which caused the excess in the first place (albeit this process is "natural" in older men).

                              To have high DHT, a man has to have relatively low progesterone and cortisol. The former can bind to the androgen in place of DHT, the second down-regulates DHT production. (A lot of forums are full of people desperate to find an androgen receptor blocker, while our body already has its own agonist! It's like using a hammer to fix a leaky faucet.)
                              With low progesterone and cortisol, thyroid hormones are downregulated as well and the body is "blocked" in a low metabolic state. It then uses estrogen to fight against excess DHT in the body. But in tissues which produce their own DHT, the estrogen can't combat DHT effectively. Scalp and prostate are the most prominent such tissues. Hence why finasteride treats both balding men and men with prostate hyperplasia. The cure to male pattern baldness is the recovery of a higher metabolic rate, which requires a hormonal therapy.


                              For old men this is caused by a natural reduction of hormonal values, this also explains the "paradox" of DHT being lower in older men. DHT is lower, but prog and cortisol are much lower as well, so it's still an excess. For younger men, the cause seems to be always a high glycemix index diet in their youth, which is exactly what the USDA recommends and is exactly what is turning the world into a hell of obesity, diabetes and coronary disease. (Which in turn makes a lot of money for big pharma!)

                              I have spoken with two endocrinologists already and they confirm me that because people without a scientific background can only read scientific articles which are entirely self-contained, they can't piece together a much larger amount of detailed research and information. Especially when it is in the "cutting edge" zone. Hence the sea of people believing blood flow is the main cause of Male Pattern Baldness in the 2000's, or the people believing DHT is the cause in the 2010's. Can't be helped.

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