Histogen Update - Spencer Kobren Speaks With Dr. Craig L. Ziering

[gmonasco]

And the other question is a really really simple one

"Why are those clinics or docs who say ITS IMPOSSIBLE not sueing Gho and his clinic? I mean if they are so confident why not sue him"

And the answer is also a simple one: They have no grounds for suing him, because they haven't personally been damaged by his false claims.

[RichardDawkins]

False Claims? Science speak other way just look at this video

http://www.ascb.org/ibioseminars/includes/player.cfm?name=fuchs&num=2

[DepressedByHairLoss]

This Elaine Fuchs lady has made some so-called discoveries with regards to hair growth, but she's a prime example of the type of scientist that I CANNOT STAND. She'll do every kind of test on mice, but will never do a damn thing to benefit humans. We've got way too many scientists like this. Ever since I started losing my hair, I've researched so many potential hair regrowth methods. Any I've come across a laundry list of scientists (Elaine Fuchs is a prime example) who do all of these tests on mice yet never do anything to apply these tests to help humans. Thank goodness we have people like Craig Ziering who are actually working to develop hair loss solutions to benefit HUMANS and not just test on mice. But unfortunately people who are actually working to develop hair loss solutions for humans (Cotsarelis, Dr. Ziering, etc.) are the exceptions. Most of these so-called scientists are just content testing on mice for their entire lives.

[Jundam]

This Elaine Fuchs lady has made some so-called discoveries with regards to hair growth, but she's a prime example of the type of scientist that I CANNOT STAND. She'll do every kind of test on mice, but will never do a damn thing to benefit humans. We've got way too many scientists like this. Ever since I started losing my hair, I've researched so many potential hair regrowth methods. Any I've come across a laundry list of scientists (Elaine Fuchs is a prime example) who do all of these tests on mice yet never do anything to apply these tests to help humans. Thank goodness we have people like Craig Ziering who are actually working to develop hair loss solutions to benefit HUMANS and not just test on mice. But unfortunately people who are actually working to develop hair loss solutions for humans (Cotsarelis, Dr. Ziering, etc.) are the exceptions. Most of these so-called scientists are just content testing on mice for their entire lives.

How hard can it be to comprehend the simple logic that mice are considered expendable while humans are not.

All medical experiments made on mice are made in order to develop a greater understanding of the practical applications various scientific theories might have. If you used humans in the same way we use mice today you'd end up with something very similar to the methods of Josef Mengele.

[stillinHS1994]

I believe he is expressing his anger that the majority of scientists,like elaine fuchs, who discover stuff that could potentially benefit humans ONLY do tests on mice. They never do clinical trials in humans to demonstrate the possibility of a treatment. I don't think depressedbyhairloss is saying he wants to pull a Nazi Germany and skip tests on mice to go straight to humans with every expirement....depressedbyhairloss isn't saying to use humans the same way we use lab mice...or at least I don't think he is ... Lol...some ppl will go to any extent to cure their Mpb I guess lol

[Jundam]

I believe he is expressing his anger that the majority of scientists,like elaine fuchs, who discover stuff that could potentially benefit humans ONLY do tests on mice. They never do clinical trials in humans to demonstrate the possibility of a treatment. I don't think depressedbyhairloss is saying he wants to pull a Nazi Germany and skip tests on mice to go straight to humans with every expirement....depressedbyhairloss isn't saying to use humans the same way we use lab mice...or at least I don't think he is ...he might be a neo-Nazi but I highly doubt it lol

But that's the thing. They are not stuffing mice full with potential cures to see if they become more or less cute. They are ramming them full with stuff that could do anything from absolutely nothing to making them bleed out the eyes or go completely batshit insane. The mice to them are the same as "lesser humans" were to Mengele; They are expendable. That's why I made the comparison.

If their experiments lead to anything that could help humans you will see them start clinical trials on humans. Until then it's a hit or miss game for mice.

[stillinHS1994]

I believe he is expressing his anger that the majority of scientists,like elaine fuchs, who discover stuff that could potentially benefit humans ONLY do tests on mice. They never do clinical trials in humans to demonstrate the possibility of a treatment. I don't think depressedbyhairloss is saying he wants to pull a Nazi Germany and skip tests on mice to go straight to humans with every expirement...and he definitely isn't saying to use humans the same way we use lab mice...but I dunno...some ppl will go to any.extent to cure their Mpb I guess

[stillinHS1994]

But that's the thing. They are not stuffing mice full with potential cures to see if they become more or less cute. They are ramming them full with stuff that could do anything from absolutely nothing to making them bleed out the eyes or go completely batshit insane. The mice to them are the same as "lesser humans" were to Mengele; They are expendable. That's why I made the comparison.

If their experiments lead to anything that could help humans you will see them start clinical trials on humans. Until then it's a hit or miss game for mice.

I would have to agree with you on that yes but the thing is this Elaine fuchs lady has found something with mice that could potentially benefit humans with alopecia...but she refuses to perform clinical trials....just mice...and more mice

[stillinHS1994]

Lol srry bout the double....I'm on a droid

[Jundam]

I would have to agree with you on that yes but the thing is this Elaine fuchs lady has found something with mice that could potentially benefit humans with alopecia...but she refuses to perform clinical trials....just mice...and more mice

I honestly don't know enough about her to pass judgement either way but some researchers simply work only to further the base of knowledge. It is quite possible she is one of those scientists who are simply focused on expanding that base and thus has no interest in creating commercial products based on the research she conducts. But scientists who focus their research solely on obtaining a greater understanding of something frequently write papers and give speeches at large conventions in order to make their knowledge available to the scientific community. Basically what I'm saying is she's not holding anything back from us, she's most likely just leaving the commercial aspect of science to others because she's not in it for the money.

The reason I entered this thread was just to clarify that mice are being used while the outcome of the scientific theories are uncertain. They are used because they are considered expendable. Not because scientists love to take their sweet time getting somewhere. In fact most scientists are itching to see what the future brings and if they will bring something to it themselves.

[jt3546]

Two birds with one stone

The hair would likely take on its original darker color

That would really be great! Getting rid of the gray and also increasing the black[or whatever colour your hair is]....!!!!! I'm saving up dough!

[UK_]

And the answer is also a simple one: They have no grounds for suing him, because they haven't personally been damaged by his false claims.

What, some guy lying about having mastered hair multiplication? - would Gho not be liable if some of his competitors had to close their doors based upon the impact of his monstrous global lie?

Tin hats aside, supply governs demand, and soon enough we will know the truth about Gho, consumers paying £10,000 on the promise of HM would sue his balls off if they found out he was just selling regular FUE's.

Personal opinion, I doubt he's lying, time shall reveal all.

[DepressedByHairLoss]

Holy crap, comparing increased medical options for hair loss to the shit that Josef Mengele did is just totally insane!! That comparison is just absolutely retarded to put it bluntly. If scientists tested more of their findings on humans, it would all be voluntary and many people would literally jump at the chance to try something that could significantly better their lives.
Of course mice are being tested on because of their expendability and because there are so many of them and they are so easy to obtain. And of course they should always be tested on first, before human testing begins. But how much are you helping people and society if you just experiment on mice, and mice only? You say that they are working to "obtain a greater understanding or knowledge base", yet this has been done for 25 years by countless so-called researchers and scientists with not even an attempt towards human application. Countless experiments on mice have been done that state that chemicals like WNT, Noggin, and BMP inhibitors could lead to increased hair growth yet no one is taking it beyond the mouse stage. How can we possibly know if these chemicals work on humans if they are not tried on humans in the first place? If one scientist proves that WNT proteins can lead to hair regrowth, there is no need for countless other scientists to conduct experiments on mice to prove the same thing over and over again and never try them on humans. And a lot of these scientists then say that their discoveries could lead to clinical trials yet none are ever performed. They say that their studies "could lead to clinical trials" because that entices newspapers and magazines to pay money for the rights to report on their experiments. If they stated "we only test on mice and we have absolutely no desire to develop anything to benefit humans", then no publication would give a shit. So in that respect, these scientists do very much care about making money. These discoveries that they publicize lead to speaking engagements and public accolades, all of which generate more money for their labs and themselves.
The fact that there are literally hundreds of scientists who work to "further their base of knowledge" and test on only mice yet only a handful that even attempt to test their discoveries on humans is very suspicious. That "expanding their knowledge base" is a very weak arguments. Hair loss has supposedly been researched to death for literally 25 years, with tons of potential remedies that have been proposed. Yet none of these remedies were ever tested on humans, which is downright glaringly suspicious. The only things that we have are 2 drugs that weren't even developed to treat hair loss in the first stage. With all of the so-called discoveries made when it comes to hair loss, it is just inexcusable that we don't have better options, other than the garbage that is out today.

[gmonasco]

What, some guy lying about having mastered hair multiplication? - would Gho not be liable if some of his competitors had to close their doors based upon the impact of his monstrous global lie?

He might be, but that hasn't happened, so the issue is moot.

In general, lying isn't actionable unless it constitutes libel or fraud. In the latter case, Gho's customers are the ones who would have standing to sue.

[UK_]

He might be, but that hasn't happened, so the issue is moot.

In general, lying isn't actionable unless it constitutes libel or fraud. In the latter case, Gho's customers are the ones who would have standing to sue.

Well not many companies sue on the basis of moral high ground these days lol.