Histogen Update - Spencer Kobren Speaks With Dr. Craig L. Ziering

[mlao]

I'm wondering what would be the after effect of going through Histogen injections and then discontinuing use of finasteride. I don't want to be on a pill forever... =/

When Spencer first interviewed Dr. Naughton she implied that the hair that is regenerated will grow for the length of time it grew originally. So if it did not fall out for 20 years it should last that long again. I have never heard that mentioned again so maybe Dr. Zering can comment. But unless HSC would somehow lower DHT production i would think you would need some kind of
of drug to do that as well. Or repeated injections annually.

[gmonasco]

When Spencer first interviewed Dr. Naughton she implied that the hair that is regenerated will grow for the length of time it grew originally. So if it did not fall out for 20 years it should last that long again.

It makes sense that if the effect of DHT is cumulative, new hair follicles should not succumb to it until the passage of an equal amount of time. Probably a longer time, in fact, since testosterone production decreases with age.

But unless HSC would somehow lower DHT production i would think you would need some kind of drug to do that as well. Or repeated injections annually.

But people here keep telling us that there will never be a hair loss cure, because such a cure would be a one-time treatment that would kill off the market for repeat application products.

[fontanajul]

That's what I was thinking, even though I'm not in any way educated enough on the science to make a comment like that. Ugh I wish I could just fly back home to LA and get my whole head shot up with histogen injections (I'm kidding... Sort of)

-Max

[UK_]

When Spencer first interviewed Dr. Naughton she implied that the hair that is regenerated will grow for the length of time it grew originally. So if it did not fall out for 20 years it should last that long again. I have never heard that mentioned again so maybe Dr. Zering can comment. But unless HSC would somehow lower DHT production i would think you would need some kind of
of drug to do that as well. Or repeated injections annually.

I would love to hear Dr Zierings opinion on this area also, I remember hearing Dr Naughton mention that new hairs would not miniaturize for the same period it took for the previous hairs to minaturize, so if you started balding at 22, the new hairs would last that amount of time.

Perhaps it is not cumulative, but more akin to some type of ticking time-bomb, the 'genetic time-bomb' of hair loss, reason being is that you can be exposed to such androgens for decades before you start balding, and then wham! You are a NW4 within 18 months.

[gmonasco]

Perhaps it is not cumulative, but more akin to some type of ticking time-bomb, the 'genetic time-bomb' of hair loss, reason being is that you can be exposed to such androgens for decades before you start balding, and then wham! You are a NW4 within 18 months.

Actually, men typically start "balding" (in the sense that their hairs are miniaturizing) well before they really start to notice or be concerned about it. I think the "wham" effect is basically the point where they cross an aesthetic threshold and the continuing hair loss becomes really cosmetically significant at that point.

[Jcm800]

Actually, men typically start "balding" (in the sense that their hairs are miniaturizing) well before they really start to notice or be concerned about it. I think the "wham" effect is basically the point where they cross an aesthetic threshold and the continuing hair loss becomes really cosmetically significant at that point.

I tend to agree. I can recall over ten years ago having one hairy hairline, I can remember even then, the first signs of it thinning out.

I never thought any thing of it, but the last five years-it's started to hit the point that I'm very aware of it.

It's been very slow, but gradual in my case.

[RichardDawkins]

My idea :

HSC is manipulating and resetting your follicles. Therefore your hair will get a fresh start and will be permanent for your lifetime, otherwise the results right now would be not like they are.

THe first picture we saw was very goo and consitant with this idea. They treated 4 areas or so and injected only a really small and insignificant portion of HSC and they got around 100 hairs.

My bet is, that the effect of one injection is like the effect on a pont when you throw a stone in it, the waves around the impact are significant but the loose effect after a while.

I thin most hair develop around the injection side and the further away the less new hair was there.

If it turns out tha this is the permanent cure, nobody would go out of business, because there are always people who need their scars repaired or repair cases who need a transpkant etc etc.

But for Histogen, even if you need only one to three injections over a lifespan, they wont go bancrupt or anything else because bald people are permanent, there will always be bald people.

But even if Histogen would be permanent, i would refresh the injections every five years just to be absolutely safe, thats it.

Cosmetically vs statistically significant : I think Dr Zierig stated that the first results were "cosmetically" significant (100 hairs per 2cm2, even a blind person has to admit that this is cosmetically significant)

I think 2011 will be very very very interesting. And if today some people are still saying "Intercytex failed so will Histogen".... i can only say i doubt that this will fail because NOW people are to a certain point knowing HOW you can kick MPB´s ass for good.

Always remember, humans are born with a number of follicles and they die with the exact amount of follicles.

Today in 2011 i can see only two major problems, one concearning HM and one concearning hair transplants.

1) How to get infinite donor (hair transplant side)
2) How to permanently stop hairloss from progresing and get hair regrow

And now compare those two problems with the problems a hairloss sufferer had 15 years ago. I bet 15 years ago there were more questions then today.

From my simple gutfeeling, the first question depends on the fact how you can get plucking mor efficiant and how to perform a FUE with multiplication.

The tools are all availabe but like a puzzle they have to be combined. I can tell you, i would rather live today with a balding problem then 10 years ago or 20.

Why i am so "optimistic"? Simple because all the things have so far come to the point where i expected them to come. And also this community is not "lazy" any more right now a lot of people take action in their hands and demand docs to experiment which is good.

And lets be honest here, most of the people 10 years ago didnt know anything about stem cells or manipulate ****tails to induce some effect on some cells.

Can you guys remeber who everyone was exited when this Sheep Dolly was cloned? In this time this seemed like "Wow how are they gonna do this" and what do we have now? Artificial organs and iPhones :-)

I am really thankfull that Histogen is conduct their trials (trails i always get this word wrong) in Asia because asia in general is the leading culture in biotechnology.

[UK_]

I tend to agree. I can recall over ten years ago having one hairy hairline, I can remember even then, the first signs of it thinning out.

I never thought any thing of it, but the last five years-it's started to hit the point that I'm very aware of it.

It's been very slow, but gradual in my case.

Yeah... I guess so being that even babies can suffer forms of MPB.

[Jcm800]

Yeah... I guess so being that even babies can suffer forms of MPB.

I was around 25 at the time

[mlao]

But people here keep telling us that there will never be a hair loss cure, because such a cure would be a one-time treatment that would kill off the market for repeat application products.

I have never bought into the conspiracy theory with drug companies.
If Merck or Pfizer came up with a superior one time cure they would just
charge for it accordingly.
However it would probably not be covered by insurance which is a huge source of income for them. No doctor is going to tell a patient that they need a hair loss drug to stay alive. I don't even think the big companies care about curing it. Ten years ago when I started using Propecia there were TV ads for it but you don't see any now.
Plus it probably didn't help that the minute it came out everyone started buying 5mg Proscar for BPH or generic Finasteride from overseas and splitting the pills up.

[UK_]

I have never bought into the conspiracy theory with drug companies.
If Merck or Pfizer came up with a superior one time cure they would just
charge for it accordingly.

I think it takes someone to actually be in the field to understand how difficult the process of 'curing' really is; it takes years for any development to make it into the lab, then a decade to market, often longer, especially regarding hair, in which the natural growth cycles will always cause any research to be longitudinal.

[mlao]

I think the best chance of a cure right now does come from the likes of smaller companies like Histogen or Aderans.
Companies like this didn't exist 10 years ago so investors don't have anything to compare it to.
An investor is probably suspicious of a small company trying to cure hair loss but not a huge pharmaceutical that shows huge profits every year.
I think the more proof these small companies can present the quicker it might happen.
I also think that even if it wasn't the NW7 to NW1 cure but a huge addition to the products we already use it would be successful.

[UK_]

I think the best chance of a cure right now does come from the likes of smaller companies like Histogen or Aderans.
Companies like this didn't exist 10 years ago so investors don't have anything to compare it to.
An investor is probably suspicious of a small company trying to cure hair loss but not a huge pharmaceutical that shows huge profits every year.
I think the more proof these small companies can present the quicker it might happen.
I also think that even if it wasn't the NW7 to NW1 cure but a huge addition to the products we already use it would be successful.

Aderans a small company? lol

I cant even remember what the balding research scene was like 10 years ago, as I was entering high school for the first time lol whether there were similar companies to Histogen, Aderans, Follica or new compounds like Acell and PRP, I am guessing it was a sort of 'dark age' in which researchers were all in the theoretical stage, today we are in developmental stages so hopefully in the near future we may enter production/market stages.

I do remember however headlines such as the WNT7A (gene therapy) growing large quantities of life-long hair in mice, at that time they were just drawing up the plans to have it tested in humans, 5 years on and here we are, and the same goes for Aderans.

Anything that is greater than/can compete against Propecia and Minoxidil is a viable marketable development.

[mlao]

Aderans a small company? lol

Almost any big drug company makes Aderans look like a corner store!
You can't compare a company that makes wigs, owns hair salons, and a few large chain hair transplant clinics with Pfizer, Merck, or GSK. In the world of investment there is money and there is BIG MONEY!!!

[Sogeking]

I don't think we have to worry about the drug companies not wanting the cure to be found.
Because new people are born every day and some of them, during their lifetime, will experience MPB or any other form of alopecia. Not to mention all of us now and most of current users of Propecia, just waiting for a cure. iIt would be an instant financial mega boost.

Take into the account the myopia treatments like Laser eye surgery . They are being offered as a one time treatment (don't want to go into their efficacies).

Now lets assume Histogen comes and is a succesful tretment, you have to take into the account that its sustainabiliy and additive functions are not thoroughly tested.

So there will probably be multiple sessions with injections dispersed over larger time period. As to be sure to increase density of the hair over time, or maybe even sustain it if it lasts several years.
I honestly don't care if they offer me valid, efficent, long lasting treatments I'll save money and definitely use them.
Also I don't want to be offensive to Histogen as being, well, greedy or anything like that, if their treatment does what its supposed to, than by all means they should charge for it.
The waiting is killing me...