If it were PGD2.....

[NeedHairASAP]

If it were PGD2 why don't transplanted hairs, or horseshoe hairs, fall out?


have they tested bald areas and non-bald areas on the SAME scalp?

[Pate]

Yes they did test the same scalp from what I recall. The balding areas had elevated PGD2, the non-balding areas didn't.

The most likely answer IMO is that PG imbalance is localised to the affected follicles, and the transplanted hair follicle doesn't have an androgen response so that doesn't start the cascading chain of events that ends in PG imbalance and miniaturised follicles.

But I'm just speculating.

[NeedHairASAP]

Originally Posted by Pate

Yes they did test the same scalp from what I recall. The balding areas had elevated PGD2, the non-balding areas didn't.

The most likely answer IMO is that PG imbalance is localised to the affected follicles, and the transplanted hair follicle doesn't have an androgen response so that doesn't start the cascading chain of events that ends in PG imbalance and miniaturised follicles.

But I'm just speculating.

sounds reasonable

[Conpecia]

Originally Posted by NeedHairASAP

If it were PGD2 why don't transplanted hairs, or horseshoe hairs, fall out?

I asked this question a month ago when all this prostaglandin stuff exploded and I never got an answer. It doesn't make sense that transplanted hairs would remain if the frontal area is susceptible to increased levels of PGD2 unless the follicles themselves are resistant. I have never understood why transplanted hairs do not fall out, other than that they are somehow "DHT resistant." If heightened levels of PGD2 exist in my frontal area and that alone causes my baldness then why the hell would transplanted hairs stick around in the same environment?? So frustratingly complex...

[gutted]

Originally Posted by Conpecia

I asked this question a month ago when all this prostaglandin stuff exploded and I never got an answer. It doesn't make sense that transplanted hairs would remain if the frontal area is susceptible to increased levels of PGD2 unless the follicles themselves are resistant. I have never understood why transplanted hairs do not fall out, other than that they are somehow "DHT resistant." If heightened levels of PGD2 exist in my frontal area and that alone causes my baldness then why the hell would transplanted hairs stick around in the same environment?? So frustratingly complex...

transplanted hairs dont fall out cause over time androgen levels natrually decline and the people who get transplants are usually individuals who are in thier 30s/40's/50's etc at which point in thier life this androgen level decline occurs.

Also people who get transplants are usually norwood 4/5/6/7 - at this point the problem was already addressed by the immune system hence why it no longer causes any damage to the newly transplanted hairs. There is nothing differnet than balding hairs and transplanted hairs, depsite what you may have been told.

[Conpecia]

Originally Posted by Pate

The most likely answer IMO is that PG imbalance is localised to the affected follicles, and the transplanted hair follicle doesn't have an androgen response so that doesn't start the cascading chain of events that ends in PG imbalance and miniaturised follicles.

Then the PGD2 is not causing the hair loss, right? The PG imbalance is external to the follicle and affects it. Putting another follicle from the same head in that area should cause the same result, but it doesn't. Meaning the follicle itself is different, somehow resistant to the bad PG? But if elevated levels of PGD2 are the root cause of baldness wouldn't that mean that, no matter what, hair would fall out in an area with elevated levels of PGD2? In men without mpb, there are apparently much lower levels of PGD2. It's not an issue of these men having PGD2 resistant hair follicles. At least that's the argument. But do you see the discrepancy? The follicle itself, the one from the back of my balding head, should not be "resistant" to PGD2 imbalance if the only reason another guy keeps his hair is because he has no PG imbalance. It's like people are combining DHT and PGD2 rationales. If PGD2 is the sole cause then transplants should not work, unless there are both PGD2 resistant follicles on the backs of our heads AND men without mpb have below-threshold levels of PGD2 in the fronts of their heads. So are there guys out there with PGD2 resistant follicles all over their heads AND low PGD2 levels? Are there guys with sky-high PGD2 levels who nevertheless do not go bald because they are blessed with PGD2 resistant follicles? Are we just double-cursed? That all seems pretty ridiculous...

[Follicle Death Row]

I think the follicle has to be sensitive to the PGD2 levels in the first place. Of course this is just me trying to reason things logically so it's just speculation but I would assume that for a follicle to miniturise it would:

1) Have to be subjected to high levels of PGD2
2) Be sensitive to high levels (i.e. have the appropriate receptor)

I assume both criteria have to be met. So if you transplant a donor follicle it will be subjected to 1) in the recipient but it is not 2).

I don't know really, just a thought.

[neversaynever]

Originally Posted by Conpecia

Then the PGD2 is not causing the hair loss, right? The PG imbalance is external to the follicle and affects it. Putting another follicle from the same head in that area should cause the same result, but it doesn't. Meaning the follicle itself is different, somehow resistant to the bad PG? But if elevated levels of PGD2 are the root cause of baldness wouldn't that mean that, no matter what, hair would fall out in an area with elevated levels of PGD2? In men without mpb, there are apparently much lower levels of PGD2. It's not an issue of these men having PGD2 resistant hair follicles. At least that's the argument. But do you see the discrepancy? The follicle itself, the one from the back of my balding head, should not be "resistant" to PGD2 imbalance if the only reason another guy keeps his hair is because he has no PG imbalance. It's like people are combining DHT and PGD2 rationales. If PGD2 is the sole cause then transplants should not work, unless there are both PGD2 resistant follicles on the backs of our heads AND men without mpb have below-threshold levels of PGD2 in the fronts of their heads. So are there guys out there with PGD2 resistant follicles all over their heads AND low PGD2 levels? Are there guys with sky-high PGD2 levels who nevertheless do not go bald because they are blessed with PGD2 resistant follicles? Are we just double-cursed? That all seems pretty ridiculous...

I dont agree with the idea of PGd2 being a kind of poison for follicles. I think it plays a role in the phases of hair growth. With levels going up and down along with other PGs to move hair through different growth cycles.

Problem for us is pgd2 is being over produced, possibly because of the DHT issue. Maybe the malfunction is that balding scalps react to DHT sensitivity by surround follicles by PGd2, and thus making us bald.

Blocking PGd2 is no cure, because even non balding areas have pgd2, just in lower numbers. Unless it has been proven that PGd2 is not needed by follicles?

It would seem that reducing pgd2 might save vellus hairs and terminal hairs, but until we understand exactly WHY pgd2 levels are so high...we are clueless.

PG balance seems to be the key, but we need more info on the relationship between DHT and pgd2.

I was also under the impression that PGd2 is local to follicles, hence why transplants work. If a follicle is sensitive to DHT, PGd2 is produced in high amounts, eventually stalling it into a resting phase (surely PGd2 is needed for the resting phase?). Transplanted hair is more resistant to DHT, and thus, pg balance around that follicle remain normal

[gutted]

yes pgd2 is involved in hair follicle cycling.

i suspect its highly elevated in the telogen phase of the hair and is in low numbers in the other growth phases.

Its only logical to find an abudance of pgd2 in the balding scalp since most of the follicles are in the RESTING PHASE

Blocking pgd2, which minoxidil can and does do, may signal those resting follciles out into the anagen phase.

[2020]

Originally Posted by gutted

i suspect its highly elevated in the telogen phase of the hair and is in low numbers in the other growth phases.

Its only logical to find an abudance of pgd2 in the balding scalp since [B]most of the follicles are in the RESTING PHASE

bingo! I think that study actually says something about that where PGD2 levels go up right after hair changes its cycle