The big 3 minus 1?

[chrisis]

Originally Posted by clandestine

Just a note, I would perhaps be cautious about going off, on finasteride in a repeated manner. This due to the fact that (to my knowledge) finasteride must be taken continually and consistently in order for it to be completely effective.

Agreed. However I think I need to eliminate finasteride for awhile, and if it's determined to be the cause of my low libido I can then decide whether I add it back and at what dose. I may do better on 1mg or 0.5mg rather than the 1.25mg I've been taking. I think I'd need to experiment to find a happy balance, or come off it completely. This seems the sensible plan, but I'm open to any other views!

[Tracy C]

Originally Posted by sanook

Thanks for this. How long does it usually take for rogaine/minoxidil to work? weeks? months? years?

It takes between four and six months before you will know if Rogaine or generic Minoxidil are working for you. It takes 12 to 18 months before you will know how well Rogaine or generic Minoxidil is working for you.

Between four and six months you should start to see peach fuzz. It takes a number of cycles for that peach fuzz to transform into normal hair.

[ryan555]

Hey Chris,

The side effects probably are real but that doesn't necessarily mean you should be overly concerned. I agree that side effects are probably more common than originally stated, but I think the risk of serious and persistent side effects is grossly overstated. I had side effects when I was on the drug, but I never even realized it until I stopped. I experienced the following after I stopped the drug after 12 years:

- Erections got a little harder
- Morning erections returned (didn't ever notice them going away)
- More stamina during sex
- Increased body hair
- Better urinary flow

I guess all of them crept up on me sometime when I was on the drug but I didn't realize it and I wasn't worried because I never read anything online and I was just happy not to be losing hair. However, I do believe that had I gone online and read propeciahelp.com or some of these other internet forums, I would have freaked out and quit the drug. Luckily, it did the job for me and everything went back to normal when I quit. And honestly, I think I was better of during those 12 years with a few side effects and no concerns about hair loss.

The thing is, all drugs have side effects and finasteride is certainly no exception. You have to weigh the cost vs. the benefit. If you're one of the guys who is worried enough about hair loss to spend a lot of time reading about it online and thinking about a hair transplant, then it's probably safe to say that it is a pretty significant disruption in your life. If you can find something that is tolerable (not perfect) that eliminates or greatly reduces this distraction, then it would make sense to accept side effects if they are minor enough.

I have heard of guys having very good success with finasteride and reducing sides by playing with the dose. I had a very reputable doctor tell me that he takes 1/2 mg every other day and doesn't notice any difference than when he was on 1.25 every day. I also have a friend who takes .25 mg every day because he had some minor sides and he says this is working well for him. If I were you, I would play with the dose and see if the side effects resolve. But if they don't get better and your gut tells you they are too severe to tolerate, then you should definitely stop.

That's my 2 cents.

Ryan

[Tracy C]

Originally Posted by chrisis

Tracy C: Maybe there is some connection between the biochemistry that triggers hair loss and sexual side effects, that does not trigger in people who are only taking the medication for their prostate. It's all speculation, but possible...

Actually, each of these guys I am talking about were NW3v or worse. None of them have lost any more hair though and a couple of them are thickening back up a little bit on top.

[chrisis]

Ah ok Tracy C. Who knows then... It's really all speculation I tend to trust my own instinct, because as George Carlin said: “Just think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of them are even stupider!”

Ryan, thanks for your post. I reckon that's really good advice and exactly what I'm thinking right now. I'd be happy to compromise a balance between sexual health and retaining hair, but I definitely don't like where my libido is right now. I'm going to come off the finasteride for a week or two, and when my libido returns I'll add it back at a dose of 0.5mg daily. If the sides come back, I'll quit for good. If the sides stay away, I'll either maintain or up the dose. Sound sensible?

[Tracy C]

Originally Posted by chrisis

I'm going to come off the finasteride for a week or two, and when my libido returns I'll add it back at a dose of 0.5mg daily. If the sides come back, I'll quit for good. If the sides stay away, I'll either maintain or up the dose. Sound sensible?

I don't know how well this translates but when I started Spiro I had to work up to the dose I needed to be on a little at a time over time. I was on the smallest dose possible for a while, then went up a little bit, then went up a little bit more and so on until I was up to the dose I needed to be on. The doctor told me that if I need to go off of the medication to do the same thing in reverse. Go off of it a little at a time over time.

[ryan555]

Originally Posted by chrisis

Ah ok Tracy C. Who knows then... It's really all speculation I tend to trust my own instinct, because as George Carlin said: “Just think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of them are even stupider!”

Ryan, thanks for your post. I reckon that's really good advice and exactly what I'm thinking right now. I'd be happy to compromise a balance between sexual health and retaining hair, but I definitely don't like where my libido is right now. I'm going to come off the finasteride for a week or two, and when my libido returns I'll add it back at a dose of 0.5mg daily. If the sides come back, I'll quit for good. If the sides stay away, I'll either maintain or up the dose. Sound sensible?

Sounds like a good plan, though you could go proceed with even more caution. If my other health issues resolve and I am able to take it again, here is how I will do it:

- Get a 100 ml bottle with a dropper and a pill crusher
- Crush 2 x 5 mg finasteride pills and mix the powder with 100 ml of water (or vodka or whatever), so that each ml contain 1/10 mg of finasteride
- Start myself with a baby dose of 1/4 ml each day, which equates to only .025 mg of finasteride.
- Hold each dose for a few days to give my body a chance to adjust and then gradually step up until I feel like the side effects are coming on

Doing it that way, you can find the dose that your body is able to handle without side effects and you can gradually give yourself a chance to adjust to the medicine.

-Ryan

[chrisis]

I honestly feel safer to come off the finasteride altogether for now Tracy C.

As for returning to it, yeah that seems good advice Ryan. However, I didn't feel my side effects until a few months after starting finasteride 1.25mg, so it seems that it would be difficult to predict exactly what dose triggers side effects if there's a delayed onset. I might just jump back in at 0.5mg and see how I fare.

It seems to me that science has let us down so we're having to experiment on ourselves...

[stylus187]

Originally Posted by 2020

.... this is an old drug. It has been tested on thousands on subjects over the past 2 decades.
We already know the risks and they are very low - something around 2%. Side effects are NEVER permanent.

Millions of people are already using it and vast majority of them are satisfied with the results. For the love god, don't listen to anything StressedToBald says...

Thats not true. I personally know 2 men who have not recovered from propecia. 1 man is 18 months off meds, 2nd man is 12 months off meds. Both of them suffer from severe depression and still not able to "perform" like they once did. Read the boards, there are more horror stories then succes stories. I too once suffered from propecia. Thankfully by the grace of God, and my understanding of PCT treatment, my side effects diminished . Some men can take it, some cannot... its that simple....

[stylus187]

Originally Posted by ryan555

Hey Chris,

The side effects probably are real but that doesn't necessarily mean you should be overly concerned. I agree that side effects are probably more common than originally stated, but I think the risk of serious and persistent side effects is grossly overstated. I had side effects when I was on the drug, but I never even realized it until I stopped. I experienced the following after I stopped the drug after 12 years:

- Erections got a little harder
- Morning erections returned (didn't ever notice them going away)
- More stamina during sex
- Increased body hair
- Better urinary flow

I guess all of them crept up on me sometime when I was on the drug but I didn't realize it and I wasn't worried because I never read anything online and I was just happy not to be losing hair. However, I do believe that had I gone online and read propeciahelp.com or some of these other internet forums, I would have freaked out and quit the drug. Luckily, it did the job for me and everything went back to normal when I quit. And honestly, I think I was better of during those 12 years with a few side effects and no concerns about hair loss.

The thing is, all drugs have side effects and finasteride is certainly no exception. You have to weigh the cost vs. the benefit. If you're one of the guys who is worried enough about hair loss to spend a lot of time reading about it online and thinking about a hair transplant, then it's probably safe to say that it is a pretty significant disruption in your life. If you can find something that is tolerable (not perfect) that eliminates or greatly reduces this distraction, then it would make sense to accept side effects if they are minor enough.

I have heard of guys having very good success with finasteride and reducing sides by playing with the dose. I had a very reputable doctor tell me that he takes 1/2 mg every other day and doesn't notice any difference than when he was on 1.25 every day. I also have a friend who takes .25 mg every day because he had some minor sides and he says this is working well for him. If I were you, I would play with the dose and see if the side effects resolve. But if they don't get better and your gut tells you they are too severe to tolerate, then you should definitely stop.

That's my 2 cents.

Ryan

Im scared to try Propecia again!!!