CB-03-01 - When will it come to market? Will it be a stand alone treatment?

[hellouser]

Originally Posted by burtandernie

Yeah hopefully its not outrageously priced. The power to stop mpb for decades topically with no sides? Sounds good to me. I heard there was a chance it could be used once or twice weekly instead of daily but that might be hoping for too much. I would just be happy to see this see the light of day. We have like 3 or 4 super good topical treatments that got scrapped like RU among others.

I think the patients from the Cosmo trials were applying it once or twice weekly and achieved those results. We still don't know what vehicle they used however it did state 'OL/PG' which should mea 'OLEYL/PROPYLENE GLYCOL' (a standard cosmetic vehicle)

[samdee]

Originally Posted by Pate

Clinical trials are already well advanced, they only just started in the US but earlier trials happened in Europe. The big downer for CB is that they are focusing on acne first, which seems bizarre since the acne market is already well supplied with viable treatments while MPB of course isn't.

The other downer is the indicative timeline keeps slipping. I think 2017 is a realistic goal for market now.

But in terms of efficacy and sides it's looking great. Should be a big improvement on Fin with no systemic sides, and only needs to be used once or max twice a week. And while trials are slow, at least Cosmo is making progress and getting deals done. They are also a profitable company in their own right so no worries about them going out of business if they meet delays.

That's GREAT. As long as they are working on stuff. Things are happening and people are getting smarter. Although in this direct respect it's a bit of a bummer, these steps have all sorts on indirect positive outcomes.

I say, this industry is creating a great foundation for itself.

[Troy]

Originally Posted by Dan26

All we really know from Cosmo is that they have decided to trial an anhydrous vehicle at a 5% concentration. People think it may be an Olelyl Alchohol / PG solution, but we wont really be sure until Cosmo releases it. Pretty sure Isopropanal/PG would not work at all. It's a big ass molecule! I'm trying it with DMI/DMSO as they are unreal for penetration, but again, none of us will really know until we try and we see everyone results from all the different vehicles

If we get it working properly, it should outperform fin and RU. When they used it with iontopheresis I think only once or twice a week, the results were impressive.

There this guy Alfie that is/was getting results from ethanol (50)/ PG (50) vehicle with CB.

CB is not a big ass molecule - Molecular Weight 402.52
http://www.chemblink.com/products/19608-29-8.htm

DMI/DMSO sounds good for dissolving the powder, but doubt you'll need a strong penetration enhancer like DMSO!

I also believe that CB should outperform RU and Fin as it takes care of androgens and inflamation...and as a bonus should not have systemic side effets!

Anyway good luck Dan

[Troy]

Originally Posted by hellouser

I think the patients from the Cosmo trials were applying it once or twice weekly and achieved those results. We still don't know what vehicle they used however it did state 'OL/PG' which should mea 'OLEYL/PROPYLENE GLYCOL' (a standard cosmetic vehicle)

I think the once or twice a week study was done with iontophoresis!

[burtandernie]

What is iontophoresis? I mean is it some kind of sophisticated delivery vehicle that is too expensive for the actual real product?

[Troy]

Originally Posted by burtandernie

What is iontophoresis? I mean is it some kind of sophisticated delivery vehicle that is too expensive for the actual real product?

Iontophoresis, also called electromotive drug administration (EMDA), is a technique using a small electric charge to deliver a medicine or other chemical through the skin.[1] It is basically an injection without the needle. The technical description of this process is a non-invasive method of propelling high concentrations of a charged substance, normally a medication or bioactive agent, transdermally by repulsive electromotive force using a small electrical charge applied to an iontophoretic chamber containing a similarly charged active agent and its vehicle. One or two chambers are filled with a solution containing an active ingredient and its solvent, also called the vehicle. The positively charged chamber, called the anode, will repel a positively charged chemical, whereas the negatively charged chamber, called the cathode, will repel a negatively charged chemical into the skin.

It might be hard to use this at home

[burtandernie]

Yeah that sounds a little out of reach, but if it works that well maybe someday we will get some kind of dumbed down version of this for home use.
Hopefully they can find a good topical vehicle to replace this that works almost as good, because this whole treatment and lots of others depend on a good vehicle. You would think given the amount of companies faced with topical vehicle problems there would be some good ones already studied.

[chemhead]

You know for us, iontophoresis is really not out of reach. I use an iontophoresis device I made on a daily basis (not for my hair). It wouldn't be difficult to make another device specifically to deliver CB to the scalp. I've got a question for any of you. I've been using Fin for about 4 years now and I've decided that I just don't want to tolerate the sides anymore. Fin works very well for me.. stops all loss and thickens at the proper dosage, but I have no libido, it's difficult for me to build muscle without it quickly wasting away (it's A LOT of work), I'm cognitively just "not there". I don't really dream anymore.. don't remember the last dream I had. I usually just sleep and that's it.. always tired. I've also cycled on and off Fin multiple times and relieved all my sides, so I'm not worried about any so-called "post-fin" symptoms. Anyway, I've ordered my first batch of RU a few days ago. Do any of you have any experiences with using ONLY RU, having dropped fin or dut because of sides? I'd like to know if anyone had equivalent or better results with RU, minus the sides of fin/dut. Obviously, I'll have to try for myself to truly know, but it would be nice to hear others' experiences. If RU works for me, I will start synthesizing it myself (I have my own lab + equipment). For now, though, I'm going to determine if it works. I'd also like to synthesize CB, but that will be down the road and it's a lot more involved than RU, due to it's steroidal structure. Any thoughts appreciated.

[burtandernie]

This cant come soon enough because I am happy to keep my hair, but I really dont want to touch propecia.

[chemhead]

burtandernie, I wouldn't discourage you from trying finasteride. There are some people that don't experience sides and if it works.. even better. I honestly envy the people that get good results from fin with no sides. Dosage on fin is a little weird for me.. I've discovered that too little obviously doesn't help my hair enough, but that too much also doesn't. I have a very small window where the dosage is optimal. Beyond it, scalp gets itchy, my hair gets thinner, dry, and starts falling out.. skin gets red/irritated. Beneath it, hair is more oily, thinner, and scalp gets itchy. The negative non-hair related sides increase dose-dependently... unfortunately. It would be nice to have a small window for those to go away too :/.

I pulverize my fin and use a pharmaceutical balance to measure out my dose every day in order to keep myself in that "window". I really hope RU works for me without sides, though. I've got a lot to be optimistic about because it seems to work well for a lot of people. I just know if it does work, a huge burden will be lifted for me. Fin has a hug effect on my overall energy and it makes it really difficult to work out... or really do anything. I'm amazed that I manage to gain anything. If RU were to work for me, I would honestly feel like I was cheating life. Feeling like shit has been kind of the norm since I've been on fin. It's incredibly refreshing when I take a break from it.. I feel alive... I actually get hard looking at girls lol... can't wait to replace this shit.