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  1. #11
    Senior Member gillenator's Avatar
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    Wow, that was some incredible information Chuck.

    Wonder if any of the MLB players that were recently suspended had this knowledge. Maybe, but the temptation to excel at any cost seems to permeate every corner of our society.

    DHT is a metabolite of testosterone so hard to say if the increased level of testosterone has a corresponding increase of DHT in the body.

    I think there's been several threads on this issue in the past.
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  2. #12
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    It confirms what I've always suspected. There is no such thing as natural bodybuilding.

  3. #13
    Senior Member gillenator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fred970 View Post
    It confirms what I've always suspected. There is no such thing as natural bodybuilding.
    Oh, I think topcat still is into bodybuilding and he does not use steroids. But I don't think he does it on a professional level not that I am speaking for him.

    I never used them either but I was not into competing. I did use creatine in my protein drinks for awhile when I was bulking up. But something inside my head told me not to continue, probably just common sense.
    "Gillenator"
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  4. #14
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    Bodybuilding...........LOL...........are you kidding me.........no offense to the original poster. I’m actually into health and nutrition but as far a training I have competed in powerlifting and martial arts. Most of my training is martial arts.

    Yes I wanted to be a bodybuilder when I was 13 until I found out it was all fake at about 17. No offense but it is kind of a strange sport if you want to call it a sport. What I do like about it though is that it requires discipline and I do respect that aspect. What I like to tell people about exercise is develop discipline first if you don’t have it. Learn to do something everyday day in and day out without missing a beat and learn to do things now. If you don’t have these 2 traits you will quickly fail at an exercise program and changing dietary habits.

    Why someone would purposely mess with their endocrine system and risk cancer or some other disease while they watch their balls shrivel up is beyond me but hey we all like what we like.

    We all have taken risks in life and some of us have dodged the bullet while others have not. When it comes to health most that have taken huge risks usually regret it. Look at a guy like Tommy Morrison dead at 44 so much potential all lost because of taking too much risk. Sometimes it helps to have that old guy tell you listen don’t do this and here is why............but not everyone is going to listen.

  5. #15
    Senior Member mpb47's Avatar
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    I did not realize how much in demand this stuff was until about a year ago when my dr put me on topical testosterone. The pharmacy was always giving me the 3rd degree, show id, sign something. Once they even overrode my dr's rx and said he was not allowed to give me 5 refills. I asked a friend who has been on it for years what the big deal was. Well he is on the shot form of T and told me how his son in law broke into his house and stole it because he was a body builder (and a criminal ).

    But these guys also take even stronger forms of it- not just regular T and it's crazy to do so without a dr's care- forget the legalities. I am on the weakest form of it yet they have to screen me every 6 months to check for prostate growth/cancer and a host of other side effects. The warning label is literally several pages long. Oh and the funny thing is mpb is considered a normal and expected side effect.... that's one thing the drug company is not worried about.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by topcat View Post
    Why someone would purposely mess with their endocrine system and risk cancer or some other disease while they watch their balls shrivel up is beyond me but hey we all like what we like.
    What pisses me of the most is that as a bald and skinny guy, there will always be people (including my ex-girlfriends) who will tell me "why don't you enrol in a gym? Don't you want to look like Vin Diesel?" like it's something completely natural that can happen in a few months if I want it bad enough. Then they tell me I have no motivation and that I'm lazy. How can people still believe that folks shaped like Woody Allen can look like Vin Diesel if they are "motivated" is beyond me. I've enrolled in a gym and I'm glad a professional has been honest with me: "Some people just can't get results without steroids".

  7. #17
    Senior Member gillenator's Avatar
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    With proper nutrition, rest, and patience, you can get results. And I agree that we are all individuals and not all of us are going to be able to attain the mass and strength that others can.

    Yet I do believe that most people can make a significant difference over the long term. You're correct in that it will not happen in the immediate term without using a superficial approach. This is true with just about every discipline of life.

    Continued use of steroids over the long term is extremely dangerous so persistence, dedication, and patience is what will payoff in the long term and obviously also beneficial to one's health.
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  8. #18
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    There is way too much to write on the subject at hand here. But I will say this about motivation. You can look at any before and after picture of a Marine Corp recruit and then you will understand what is possible in 12 weeks or so when motivation is forced upon you. The fact is most severely lack self motivation and self discipline. It is a conditioned habit that comes with time. For instance posting to these forums requires very little time but does require discipline and motivation. Just a quick thought written just as fast and hitting the reply button. It makes for good writing practice where you can judge how well you write quickly and looking for all the errors in grammar, punctuation and the ability of the reader to even comprehend what you have written. But how many people do it on a regular basis, not many simply because it’s too much work as the time involved is insignificant so time would be a poor excuse.

    The people that lack self motivation are the same people that don’t wash their dishes, clean their house, look the other way when there is work to be done or just generally put off until tomorrow what can be done today. It is a learned behavior and it becomes part of who they are. So if a person lacks the motivation to put in the required effort to wash a dish they usually will never stick to a workout program. But somehow those same people often find the time and motivation to sit in front of the boob tube.

    I always tell people walk around the block once a day for about 4 weeks. When you can make that a habit then you will be ready to move on to step number 2.

    To be good at anything requires consistent effort and accumulated knowledge. I do a lot of iron body training and when I’m training at the gym I always have my favorite wood wall and metal plate I like to slam a closed fist into repeatedly. I always have people come up to me as ask me how is what you’re doing even possible. Common sense would say that one would break every bone in their hand. What they fail to grasp is that I have been doing it for going on 34 years or so now and that is what makes it possible. Consistent effort over time.

    One can compare this same philosophy to FUE with a hand punch. Very slow, tedious and repetitive work. Some can stick with it but most simply lack the discipline and motivation.

  9. #19
    Senior Member mpb47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fred970 View Post
    What pisses me of the most is that as a bald and skinny guy, there will always be people (including my ex-girlfriends) who will tell me "why don't you enrol in a gym? Don't you want to look like Vin Diesel?" like it's something completely natural that can happen in a few months if I want it bad enough. Then they tell me I have no motivation and that I'm lazy. How can people still believe that folks shaped like Woody Allen can look like Vin Diesel if they are "motivated" is beyond me. I've enrolled in a gym and I'm glad a professional has been honest with me: "Some people just can't get results without steroids".
    I am not sure, but think it is part genetics, maybe DHT even. But be careful for what you wish for as there are always tradeoffs. For what ever reason I have always been able to build muscle very easily. In 9th grade we had a bench press contest. I was the second strongest in the whole class. The other guy worked out, I was a geek and never did. But the trade off is I can also get fat very easily as well. I don't lift as I don't want to get any bulkier. I run as I want/need to be lean. I have to or I will get really fat - which in the past has caused me many heath problems. I am guessing about the DHT part but I was also the first guy in my class to get mpb around my 15th birthday. In fact myself and one other guy were the only ones to get it while still in school afaik. I had other signs of dht as well, but again only guessing at the connection. I don't want to be weak by no means, but If I could stay slender easily by giving up some strength, I would probably do it

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by mpb47 View Post
    I am not sure, but think it is part genetics, maybe DHT even. But be careful for what you wish for as there are always tradeoffs. For what ever reason I have always been able to build muscle very easily. In 9th grade we had a bench press contest. I was the second strongest in the whole class. The other guy worked out, I was a geek and never did. But the trade off is I can also get fat very easily as well. I don't lift as I don't want to get any bulkier. I run as I want/need to be lean. I have to or I will get really fat - which in the past has caused me many heath problems. I am guessing about the DHT part but I was also the first guy in my class to get mpb around my 15th birthday. In fact myself and one other guy were the only ones to get it while still in school afaik. I had other signs of dht as well, but again only guessing at the connection. I don't want to be weak by no means, but If I could stay slender easily by giving up some strength, I would probably do it
    When I was around 24, I became frustrated with my skinny physique and began weight training. I joined a gym and started on the machines and after about two years hit a point where I no longer saw any progress. I bought a couple of bodybuilding books. During that time, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Franco Columbu, and Lou Ferrigno were actively engaged in the sport and winning competitions. I found that free weights, circuit training, "muscle confusion", diet and avoiding over training made a huge difference for me. When I was in my thirties, I looked like a bodybuilder. It can be done, moving from skinny to built takes a lot of work though. I never took steroids but on the other hand, I didn't eat the best of foods either. Muscles do have memory, and I can get back in shape very quickly when I stick to a workout routine. I'm sure workout strategies are by far more fine tuned in 2013.

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