Addressing root cause of male pattern baldness: a well known approach?

[beatinghairloss]

Originally Posted by Aston

Yeah, my point is this isn't open for discussion... inflammation constricts arteries. As we all know, hair loss is an inflammatory state caused by excess DHT (which my first post info links elegantly to a metabolic "insufficiency"). There is clear empirical data proving circulation is impeded in the balding areas of the scalp, just as there is evidence confirming the presence of inflammatory prostaglandins. I am really interested in what proof 2020 has for denying this.

Well you sound like a smart man let me really enlighten you.....

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6239893
this is the monoxdil study

http://joe.endocrinology-journals.or...3/439.abstract levels of hormones related to ejaculation.

http://www.bmj.com/content/310/6990/1289.full
Shows ejaculating more often increases DHT

The sad part is people will argue "all that says is that people with more DHT have to ejaculate more"....really? come on if you have that little self control I suggest yoga.

[2020]

****'s sake hold on, I'll make a separate thread where I debunk all circulation theories....

[Aston]

Well, it doesn't matter. As i thought from the beginning and my first post confirms, MPB isn't even caused by DHT, as much as a lack of a DHT's agonist for the androgen receptor, progesterone, and DHT's metabolism inhibitor, cortisol.

[Tracy C]

Originally Posted by Aston

As i thought from the beginning and my first post confirms, MPB isn't even caused by DHT...

Ummm... You need to get back to the books. A multitude of doctors and researches have concluded and confirmed multiple times that follicular sensitivity to the damaging effects of DHT is the main cause of hereditary hair loss in both men and women. There are other types of hair loss though. Maybe you have been confusing information on those other types of hair loss as being the same as and/or applying to hereditary hair loss (MPB/FPB).

[Aston]

Ummm... You need to get back to the books.

You didn't read my short post carefully, i fear. I don't deny DHT is part of the cascade of events, just like PGD2, but it isn't the source of that cascade. It isn't the "cause". People who lower their DHT don't solve their hormonal issue, which caused the excess in the first place (albeit this process is "natural" in older men).

To have high DHT, a man has to have relatively low progesterone and cortisol. The former can bind to the androgen in place of DHT, the second down-regulates DHT production. (A lot of forums are full of people desperate to find an androgen receptor blocker, while our body already has its own agonist! It's like using a hammer to fix a leaky faucet.)
With low progesterone and cortisol, thyroid hormones are downregulated as well and the body is "blocked" in a low metabolic state. It then uses estrogen to fight against excess DHT in the body. But in tissues which produce their own DHT, the estrogen can't combat DHT effectively. Scalp and prostate are the most prominent such tissues. Hence why finasteride treats both balding men and men with prostate hyperplasia. The cure to male pattern baldness is the recovery of a higher metabolic rate, which requires a hormonal therapy.

For old men this is caused by a natural reduction of hormonal values, this also explains the "paradox" of DHT being lower in older men. DHT is lower, but prog and cortisol are much lower as well, so it's still an excess. For younger men, the cause seems to be always a high glycemix index diet in their youth, which is exactly what the USDA recommends and is exactly what is turning the world into a hell of obesity, diabetes and coronary disease. (Which in turn makes a lot of money for big pharma!)

I have spoken with two endocrinologists already and they confirm me that because people without a scientific background can only read scientific articles which are entirely self-contained, they can't piece together a much larger amount of detailed research and information. Especially when it is in the "cutting edge" zone. Hence the sea of people believing blood flow is the main cause of Male Pattern Baldness in the 2000's, or the people believing DHT is the cause in the 2010's. Can't be helped.

[Maradona]

I agree people are not reading your posts carefully and only because propecia blocks DHT = more hair.

In my opinion it goes like this:

Our case, the people in their 20s and early 30s losing their hair. Our hair wasn't just programmed to fall out at this age, there was a trigger. My family history all of them lost their or at least seem noticeable in their late 40s and there are NONE absolutely nobody who looked like me in his 20s.

We get it, the way it works is something like this:
DHT--->binds to AR in progenitor cells---> follicular stem cells stop signaling derma papilla cells to replicate and produce more hair ----> hair is proportional to the number of these cells = miniaturized hair.

Derma papilla hairs die altogether = no hair.

We get it we are genetically susceptible to this process, we get that it is a gene trait.

But why the **** should we express this gene so young? especially in some of our cases.

Answer is simple excess in "something" reached or went over a certain threshold in our body making our follicles start the degenerative process.

Now, if you reduce the DHT, it's too late, the follicles have already started the degenerative process but you will make the progress much slower if you reduce DHT. You need to go back in time, the way it was BEFORE MPB was triggered, get your hormones and chemical substances in your body reach the same balance you had before MPB kicked in and that's how you will "prolong" your gene from expressing itself altogether.

You will always have DHT we get that, we had DHT before in our teens RAGING through the rooftop and most of us didn't start balding back then...

So. Listen to this guy, think outside the box for once because if you keep sticking to what is known NOW there will never be progress.

Plus nobody gives a RAT ASS about MPB so progress will be much slower than ZERO, it WILL BE NEGATIVE.

[Baldy6]

I agree let's give these guys a chance I mean at least they are trying to come up with something instead of just moaning and whinnying about hairloss. Don't get me wrong I also complain about it but also have a more open mind to other thoughts and theories. You never know one of these guys might have the "holy grail" we've been looking for. As of right now I dont trust big pharma and the governments bullshit so an independent source is a blessing.

[2020]

Originally Posted by Aston

To have high DHT, a man has to have relatively low progesterone and cortisol. The former can bind to the androgen in place of DHT, the second down-regulates DHT production. (A lot of forums are full of people desperate to find an androgen receptor blocker, while our body already has its own agonist! It's like using a hammer to fix a leaky faucet.)
With low progesterone and cortisol, thyroid hormones are downregulated as well and the body is "blocked" in a low metabolic state. It then uses estrogen to fight against excess DHT in the body. But in tissues which produce their own DHT, the estrogen can't combat DHT effectively. Scalp and prostate are the most prominent such tissues. Hence why finasteride treats both balding men and men with prostate hyperplasia. The cure to male pattern baldness is the recovery of a higher metabolic rate, which requires a hormonal therapy.

For old men this is caused by a natural reduction of hormonal values, this also explains the "paradox" of DHT being lower in older men. DHT is lower, but prog and cortisol are much lower as well, so it's still an excess. For younger men, the cause seems to be always a high glycemix index diet in their youth, which is exactly what the USDA recommends and is exactly what is turning the world into a hell of obesity, diabetes and coronary disease. (Which in turn makes a lot of money for big pharma!)

right.... except that when they tested follicles from both non-balding people and balding people in a petri dish, follicle from a balding person shrunk when it was exposed to DHT while the follicle from a non-balding person had no response.

Your response to DHT is programmed into your follicles. You simply can't change it. Genetics is the cause of MPB, not your hormone levels...

[Aston]

Balding people were not bald once. Many men go bald at 50. While you may have the genes, you don't want them to be activated before time (or ever), which is what is occurring to a lot of us.
The androgen receptors in the scalp won't get enough DHT to shrink if your progesterone and cortisol are high.

[2020]

Originally Posted by Aston

Balding people were not bald once. Many men go bald at 50. While you may have the genes, you don't want them to be activated before time (or ever), which is what is occurring to a lot of us.
The androgen receptors in the scalp won't get enough DHT to shrink if your progesterone and cortisol are high.

it's amazing how for the vast majority of people, their genetics get "activated" right around the same time as the person whose genes you inherited....