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Old 05-11-2012, 09:25 PM   #1611
Pate
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They supposedly released some results at a conference two days ago, but as yet nobody has been able to find out anything about it.

If you want to avoid fin at all costs you should be praying for CB-03-01 results, not Histogen.
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Old 05-11-2012, 09:41 PM   #1612
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Not necessarily. At any time in the balding cycle many of your hair follicles are resting. If total hair count increased, it just means that less of your follicles are resting and more are producing hair. It doesn't mean HSC created brand new follicles from scratch, or even that it reactivated dormant ones. Of course, we hope it did! But it's more likely IMO that the increase in total hair count is just because HSC stimulated some of the short-lived vellus hairs into longer-lived terminal hairs, so more of them were showing when then photo was taken.

I read that press release too, but we've since decided the language was a bit ambiguous, they didn't actually say they created new follicles from scratch, they just said they created new hairs - this may mean a dormant follicle that wasn't producing hair that showed above the skin's surface.
So Histogen will be more likely to work on people with thinning rather than bald spots - that's pretty much the case even with Rogaine or anything else out there. I personally hope it will be able to give everyone back all their hair, but that may be too optimistic...

Anyway, if they really are able to re-create the embryonic environment in the scalp, it may actually be possible that they can form entirely new follicles.

Also, I would hope that they would be able to tell the difference between a newly formed follicle and a dormant follicle reawakened. Wouldn't they be able to see the locations of follicles (even if they don't currently have hair in them) with their microscopes? If so, they would be able to tell which follicles were there from the beginning and just now being reawakened, and which ones are brand new. Some clarification on this from the company would be nice.
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Old 05-11-2012, 09:45 PM   #1613
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They supposedly released some results at a conference two days ago, but as yet nobody has been able to find out anything about it.

If you want to avoid fin at all costs you should be praying for CB-03-01 results, not Histogen.
I think i'll be a norwood 7 when CB 03 01 comes out. Norwood 4 optimistically, but i doubt it.

Histogen , if succesful, might be available sooner than we think .

CB Acne vehicle won't do anything, people have been using CB with better vehicles and NOTHING. CB for mpb hasn't even started trials .

So Histogen it is, at least for now ...
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Old 05-11-2012, 09:47 PM   #1614
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So Histogen will be more likely to work on people with thinning rather than bald spots - that's pretty much the case even with Rogaine or anything else out there. I personally hope it will be able to give everyone back all their hair, but that may be too optimistic...

Anyway, if they really are able to re-create the embryonic environment in the scalp, it may actually be possible that they can form entirely new follicles.

Also, I would hope that they would be able to tell the difference between a newly formed follicle and a dormant follicle reawakened. Wouldn't they be able to see the locations of follicles (even if they don't currently have hair in them) with their microscopes? If so, they would be able to tell which follicles were there from the beginning and just now being reawakened, and which ones are brand new. Some clarification on this from the company would be nice.
forget about it, nothing will give hair in a bald scalp. It's like growing a plant out of a rock, the tissue for hair survival is DEAD.
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Old 05-11-2012, 09:50 PM   #1615
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forget about it, nothing will give hair in a bald scalp. It's like growing a plant out of a rock, the tissue for hair survival is DEAD.
Not necessarily - research has shown that follicles in bald scalps are still alive decades later. Miniaturized but alive. I'm sure this would be more easily successful on someone with only thinning rather than balding, but you never know - it could be just a matter of dosage. Someone with a bald scalp could just need larger amounts injected.
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Old 05-11-2012, 09:54 PM   #1616
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So Histogen will be more likely to work on people with thinning rather than bald spots - that's pretty much the case even with Rogaine or anything else out there. I personally hope it will be able to give everyone back all their hair, but that may be too optimistic....
Pretty much. Replicel definitely did grow new follicles from scratch in mice, which was an amazing achievement, especially since there was no supporting skin structure there like sebaceous glands and blood supply. But currently there is probably no realistic prospect of growing new follicles en masse in humans, ie a baldness cure. There are three parts to treating baldness:

1. Protecting healthy follicles from becoming damaged
2. Rejuvenating damaged follicles
3. Growing new follicles in skin where the original follicles have been damaged beyond repair

So far medical science is still struggling with #1, with only one drug approved for it and that drug being far from ideal. CB-03-01 will hopefully improve on it with no sides. Drug therapy has proven almost totally ineffective at #2 except in the early stages. Even castration in males doesn't change those vellus hairs back to terminal, suggesting that whatever the androgens trigger in the follicle is permanent. Histogen is probably going to be best for #2.

#3 is still a pipe dream I'm afraid. Aderans may be able to grow some but haven't been able to regrow a full head of hair (or anything close so far). Replicel, well, we all know how that went. Let's just say they are a long way away from reproducing the effect in their promotional video.

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Anyway, if they really are able to re-create the embryonic environment in the scalp, it may actually be possible that they can form entirely new follicles
It's a possibility. But I don't think they necessarily create the embryonic environment in the scalp. They create the embryonic environment in their bioreactor and get the cells to start pumping out growth factors, which they collect up and then inject.

I honestly believe somebody will perfect a viable baldness cure through the Replicel/Aderans method eventually. I just don't think I will be this side of 50 when it happens (which is 20 years away).
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Old 05-11-2012, 10:10 PM   #1617
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Pretty much. Replicel definitely did grow new follicles from scratch in mice, which was an amazing achievement, especially since there was no supporting skin structure there like sebaceous glands and blood supply. But currently there is probably no realistic prospect of growing new follicles en masse in humans, ie a baldness cure. There are three parts to treating baldness:

1. Protecting healthy follicles from becoming damaged
2. Rejuvenating damaged follicles
3. Growing new follicles in skin where the original follicles have been damaged beyond repair

So far medical science is still struggling with #1, with only one drug approved for it and that drug being far from ideal. CB-03-01 will hopefully improve on it with no sides. Drug therapy has proven almost totally ineffective at #2 except in the early stages. Even castration in males doesn't change those vellus hairs back to terminal, suggesting that whatever the androgens trigger in the follicle is permanent. Histogen is probably going to be best for #2.

#3 is still a pipe dream I'm afraid. Aderans may be able to grow some but haven't been able to regrow a full head of hair (or anything close so far). Replicel, well, we all know how that went. Let's just say they are a long way away from reproducing the effect in their promotional video.



It's a possibility. But I don't think they necessarily create the embryonic environment in the scalp. They create the embryonic environment in their bioreactor and get the cells to start pumping out growth factors, which they collect up and then inject.

I honestly believe somebody will perfect a viable baldness cure through the Replicel/Aderans method eventually. I just don't think I will be this side of 50 when it happens (which is 20 years away).
You're missing the key here: MPB, our tissue is designed to kill hair follicles when the gene activates due to DHT. Easy to grow hair on non-MPB areas, jahoda did it long ago. All companies aim for 2 for two reasons: better results, give the appearance of new hair follicles and attract investors. The only company brave enough to try it out on slick bald scalp is ARI.

They've all been incosistent replicel, ARI, intercytex and Gho who started HM a long long time ago. There is in fact a point of no return even if the hair follicles is miniaturized, really miniaturized.
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Old 05-11-2012, 10:18 PM   #1618
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I think i'll be a norwood 7 when CB 03 01 comes out. Norwood 4 optimistically, but i doubt it.

Histogen , if succesful, might be available sooner than we think .

CB Acne vehicle won't do anything, people have been using CB with better vehicles and NOTHING. CB for mpb hasn't even started trials .

So Histogen it is, at least for now ...
Well you can get CB right now. If you're willing to pay the price for it and mix it yourself. Or RU. Similar stuff.

But if you're talking about getting it on the open market, I think it all comes down to effectiveness for CB. If it achieves what it sets out to do (stop further hair loss, regrow maybe a little bit, no systemic sides) then they can push it through trials and launch it while Histogen might be doing their best Aderans impression and re-running Phase II for five years straight.

CB could easily beat HSC to market, scary as the thought is.

But it's stupid arguing about it anyway. They are both at least 2 years away and if/when one comes to market we will probably all be using it, no matter what it is!
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Old 05-11-2012, 10:25 PM   #1619
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[QUOTE=Maradona;63002] You're missing the key here: MPB, our tissue is designed to kill hair follicles when the gene activates due to DHT.

I don't think I'm missing the key. You have a good point about the extra-toxic environment in balding scalp. But it doesn't mean #2 and #3 are a waste of time. Just adds an extra level of complexity. In this case it might mean using CB-03-01 and HSC together, or something like that.


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There is in fact a point of no return even if the hair follicles is miniaturized, really miniaturized.
I agree. I don't think HSC will work on NW7 slick bald scalp. Not only are the follicles too far gone but the blood supply and other supporting structures in the skin have atrophied away. But I think as long as the follicle is still producing a vellus hair that breaks the surface of the skin, there is hope.

At least, I bloody well hope there is hope.
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Old 05-11-2012, 11:15 PM   #1620
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[QUOTE=Pate;63004]
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You're missing the key here: MPB, our tissue is designed to kill hair follicles when the gene activates due to DHT.

I don't think I'm missing the key. You have a good point about the extra-toxic environment in balding scalp. But it doesn't mean #2 and #3 are a waste of time. Just adds an extra level of complexity. In this case it might mean using CB-03-01 and HSC together, or something like that.




I agree. I don't think HSC will work on NW7 slick bald scalp. Not only are the follicles too far gone but the blood supply and other supporting structures in the skin have atrophied away. But I think as long as the follicle is still producing a vellus hair that breaks the surface of the skin, there is hope.

At least, I bloody well hope there is hope.
I agree with you man. This is why I'm thinking on throwing in .5mg of fin till HSC or any other company come to market. Just to keep these follicles under control you know?

But I am damned scared of permanent sides.
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