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Old 05-04-2012, 02:59 PM   #11
Kirby_
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Originally Posted by Johny.track131 View Post
ive been bumping samjone's post on how he solved his side effects post for a long time, why dont you try it? Here it is again

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15913872

Use the link above and see for yourself. Claritan (Loratadine) has been clinically determined to solve erectile dysfunction in men. I suffered from sexual dysfunction for many years after discontinuing propecia and stumbled upon this by accident. I tried Claritan for an allergy and the next day I noticed that I had regained full erectile function. Try it please and never give up hope.
Interesting link there. I notice the study mentions SSRIs: I took Seroxat and Prozac over the courses of three years, and TBH I found they reduced my libido far more than Propecia has, in my personal subjective experience.
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Old 05-04-2012, 04:00 PM   #12
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Interesting link there. I notice the study mentions SSRIs: I took Seroxat and Prozac over the courses of three years, and TBH I found they reduced my libido far more than Propecia has, in my personal subjective experience.
Me too. I have been on and off SSRI's twice in my life. I'm not totally sure about the first time, but the second type I tried seemed to give me pretty strong sexual sides. I noticed within a week of starting the drug, and when I quit it all came surging back. I won't get into detail but it was like my body was trying to make up for lost time.
Sometimes I wonder if the SSRI and finasteride had any kind of synergistic effect. I didn't notice these sides on fin alone, but that antidepressant sure did a number on me. Now I feel fine.
Come to think of it, I once was on something like a 4-week regimen of anti-anxiety medicine, and that stuff seemed to mess with my sex drive pretty badly as well. These psych meds are no joke.

Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending how you look at it) many of the people having longer-term side effects from fin probably aren't on these types of drugs at all.
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Old 05-04-2012, 04:12 PM   #13
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Do you think it's possible that men with relatively modest excess DHT (and therefore modest hair loss) may be more susceptible to side effects as a consequence of taking Propecia? This idea has been pretty much dismissed as "weak" on this forum, but it seems quite plausible to me and would explain the disparity between the number of men coming forward with side effects and the figures quoted from the studies.

Thanks for your research and keep it up.
That seems to be the case to me. Just reading through user experiences on propeciahelp.com it does indeed seem younger people tend to be affected more and there is even a doctor testimony which focuses on how finasteride is bad for "young men". (http://www.propeciahelp.com/forum/vi...php?f=8&t=4391 )
As for the reason, i really don't know. It seems MPB has slightly different mechanisms for younger men (excess testosterone?) and older men (increased androgen receptor sensitivity?)

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Further question, I don't suppose you have any ideas or theories on how to "fix" people who have suffered from side effects? So far I'm just waiting it out (3 months on), but I guess I'm gonna have to get some tests done if things don't improve soon.
propeciahelp.com has a lot of theories. Unfortunately the best i can do is analyze existing research, of which there is none for the so called post-finasteride syndrome.

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Originally Posted by BaldinLikeBaldwin View Post
This is all very interesting to me. I'm not on Finasteride currently but likely will be in the future. I was initially planning to take small doses after reading they reduce DHT levels almost as much as 1mg+. I realised however that due to the drugs short half-life after 24 hours I would not have enough of the drug in my body for it to reduce enough DHT. (?)

I then decided on the plausible transition theory even though I feel that maybe you should not really go on Fin if you're fearing or expecting sides. From what I understand now though 1mg every 5-7 days would have an equal effect in combating MPB as 1mg ED? How is this information not more "out there"? Surely some people must have tried this and we'd know whether or not it's as effective.
The information is out there. The first link in my first post redirects to a page quoting pretty old research (1991 i think?) in which it is mentioned that finasteride binds with the enzyme in question to inhibit it. This bound product then is inactivated and can't exercise its function for its lifetime. The organism produces new functioning enzyme progressively, however it seems it takes over a week to return to full normality.

The problem is, we don't know whether its healthier to take big doses every day or not. A smaller dose is not necessarily better. Taking 1mg daily ensures your DHT level is flattened and stays that way. Presumably that is the most stable condition for the organism compared to making your DHT jump up and down with small doses and waiting weeks between each of them. It may very well do the same for your hair, but hurt your organism in the process. In fact, most people who experience permanent side effects experience them after quitting the drug, which means their organism "crashes" because of the inability to cope with the sudden change in hormone levels.

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Originally Posted by Kirby_ View Post
Black tea is no good for MPB. If it was, barely anyone in England would be balding.
I have a small, wild theory about this. I have drunk black tea every day since i was too young to remember it. Big mugs, 0,5l (15-16 oz or so) per day, maybe twice a day. Presumably many people around the world have, especially England. Doesn't it mean that our DHT got blocked to a degree since we were kids, especially through puberty, easily for over ten years? Couldn't it then be that our body is either immune to black tea consumption, (the same way it builds immunity to finasteride after a few years), or worse, that the constant inhibition of black tea has actually caused the excess in the first place, as a response to constant inhibition? It would be enough to see if many young MPB sufferers with excess sebum production are actually heavy black tea drinkers...

It's interesting to note the case of india, which consumes both big quantities of black tea and soy (another alleged DHT blocker):

http://www.slideshare.net/tejinderbh...ographic-study

Their hair loss seems to be even worse than in the west?

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Originally Posted by BaldinLikeBaldwin View Post
I also have a vested interest in all things concerning the correlation between DHT, sebum/acne and MPB. I'm going to consult a dermatologist regarding these matters soon, hopefully he'll have some knowledge about these things.

I doubt it's the actual sebum which causes the hair loss which some people seem to claim but rather the excess or sensitivity to DHT that causes both the overproduction of sebum and the hair loss.
My dermatologist prescribed me propecia with a smile, with just a glance to my hair, so i wouldn't really rely on them. They are paid to treat you, not to research into the treatments.

The question of androgen receptor sensitivity is mysterious to me. I have experienced a slight excess of body hair growth, excess of sebum and MPB. Does this mean that my androgen receptors in my entire body suddenly increased their sensitivity when i hit 20? Yet MPB, by its definition (male "pattern" balding), seems to point to a very localized modification of androgen receptor sensitivity.
Also, as far as I know, men with MPB have Low testosterone. This appears to mean their 5a reductase enzyme is transforming too much of it into DHT.
The pattern looks therefore like this to me: many men have an innate androgen receptor sensitivity to DHT, which may or may not appear early, but ultimately the cause of hair loss in an early age, as well as excess sebum, is the overproduction of DHT. I have of course no proof to assert this and may well be wrong, but that seems to be emerging pattern from the data i have (which is definitely not good enough to formulate actual theories.)
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Old 05-05-2012, 08:17 AM   #14
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Use the link above and see for yourself. Claritan (Loratadine) has been clinically determined to solve erectile dysfunction in men. I suffered from sexual dysfunction for many years after discontinuing propecia and stumbled upon this by accident. I tried Claritan for an allergy and the next day I noticed that I had regained full erectile function. Try it please and never give up hope.
I could give it a try but to be honest, I don't have a problem with erections really, I just lack sensitivity that I had before. It's frustrating.
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Old 05-05-2012, 08:27 AM   #15
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That seems to be the case to me. Just reading through user experiences on propeciahelp.com it does indeed seem younger people tend to be affected more and there is even a doctor testimony which focuses on how finasteride is bad for "young men".
If this is the case then it really is a big deal!!!

It also highlights failings in the methodology of Merck's trials. It's hard to believe that people city a study conducted in Japan to prove Propecia's safety, considering MPB is an inherited trait. I'm no scientist but anyone with a reasonable IQ can deduce that such a study is inadequate!
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Old 05-06-2012, 09:11 AM   #16
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Got nothin to lose chrisis, try it out and tell us if the sensation fully comes back
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Old 05-06-2012, 12:52 PM   #17
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Got nothin to lose chrisis, try it out and tell us if the sensation fully comes back
Started taking one a day, Loratadine generic 10mg. Reckon that's enough? I'll report back if it does anything.
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Old 05-06-2012, 02:01 PM   #18
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Is it the same as claritan? sorry, didnt research alot, i'm just going by samjone's post and some studies i looked at.

And Good luck man!
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Old 05-06-2012, 05:31 PM   #19
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Yeah the active ingredient is the same - loratadine.

Cheers, had a pretty good day today but could just be coincidental so will see how I am over the week.
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Old 05-07-2012, 03:06 PM   #20
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how's everything chrisis?
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