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Old 05-01-2012, 05:50 PM   #61
the_charger
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I completely agree. His comments and points have devolved to a point where he seems to have no other objective other than to provoke other members and unsuccessfully attempt to delegitimize the claims that finasteride has associated risks.
you are really surprising me soothsayer with your recent posts.

please remember that you are the one that is calling me insecure, constantly insulting my intelligence and recently saying im an undercover merck employee and a troll, and so on and so forth...

please also remember that i am the one that is perfectly happy discussing the actual studies and facts in our debates, and you more and more often are resorting to insulting me.. and now i couldnt believe to see you actually are saying im trying to provoke other members?
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Old 05-01-2012, 07:25 PM   #62
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Too bad while your crying about side effects the rest of us are maintaining our hair.
Bob I can assure you I probably have more hair than the vast majority of men here. I'm just vain because I want to maintain the benefits that looking good unlocks.
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Old 05-01-2012, 07:31 PM   #63
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you are really surprising me soothsayer with your recent posts.

please remember that you are the one that is calling me insecure, constantly insulting my intelligence and recently saying im an undercover merck employee and a troll, and so on and so forth...

please also remember that i am the one that is perfectly happy discussing the actual studies and facts in our debates, and you more and more often are resorting to insulting me.. and now i couldnt believe to see you actually are saying im trying to provoke other members?
I did not call you insecure, I said you had an insecurity. I did not insult your intelligence, I merely pointed out that you did not grasp certain concepts. I did not call you an undercover Merck employee or a troll, but said that you appear to be acting like one. Please do not twist my words to change the connotation of what I said. Thanks.
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Old 05-01-2012, 07:48 PM   #64
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Too bad while your crying about side effects the rest of us are maintaining our hair.
Gotta be honest man: that was an incredibly f*ckin' dick thing to say.

He would probably love for finasteride to have worked fine for him. Are you seriously making fun of him for balding and suffering side effects from one of the only treatments? Usually I try to be pretty positive, but QUIT BEING A C*CK.

I'll try to be double positive for a while to make up for that.
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Old 05-01-2012, 08:00 PM   #65
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No, this is a good theory.. I unfortunately dont even know much about hormones, but I did read that estrogen levels might go up a bit when taking finasteride because DHT has been lowered. Im not sure if this would cause side effects, but it might! Maybe some guys (2%) just cant handle high estrogen, or maybe their estrogen levels are already high and propecia pushes it up over the edge? I really dont know.. I havent seen any studies that can really explain even why propecia causes side effects.. It would be nice if we could get some input from some medical experts in here!

Yeah, it might be possible that if their estrogen levels were slightly elevated to begin with, they may suffer side effects if the levels were caused to raise higher, past a "break point." That, or if aromatase was elevated to begin with. Or it could simply have to do with ratios (testosterone:estrogen, aromatase:5alpha-reductase, etc.) rather than a particularly high level of anything. Any number of things could be happening, but I would have to guess it has something to do with aromatase/estrogen. I'm surprised they didn't check these things.

Where did you read that they suspected that estrogen levels may go up if DHT was lowered? That would seem to support this idea. I'd like to read that, if you remember where that came from.

I bet what with these new FDA rulings and the few people who suffer being so vocal about it, Merck will want to get this figured out. And hey, guys, let's go easy on people who are suffering. You gotta understand why they may be a little passionate about the subject, even if they number very few. I mean, shouldn't you want this talked about. Wouldn't you like it if they figured this out and 100% of people could be helped by finasteride instead of 98%?

And hey, if they figured it out, you'd get to quit hearing all this whining. There's a plus, right?
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Old 05-01-2012, 08:09 PM   #66
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I did not call you insecure, I said you had an insecurity. I did not insult your intelligence, I merely pointed out that you did not grasp certain concepts. I did not call you an undercover Merck employee or a troll, but said that you appear to be acting like one. Please do not twist my words to change the connotation of what I said. Thanks.
You also said I "provoke other members and unsuccessfully attempt to delegitimize the claims that finasteride has associated risks." which is a complete lie. that is just a fancy way of calling me a troll!

you said I am insecure about my hairloss and thats why I take propecia

i'm not going to argue about you about semantics, but you were the one that asked if I was a merck employee, which is such just a completely ridiculous thing to even bring up. how exactly do I act like one? because I am interested in this topic and am involved in debating it??

If you want to continue debating the the studies and facts, im all for it, because that is whats important, but please stop mentioning all this type of crap because its really immature, even I know that. I dont care if you insinuated it or accused it, you are the one that brought these things up, and if you cant keep debating without it getting personal then you should stop debating.
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Old 05-01-2012, 08:15 PM   #67
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You also said I "provoke other members and unsuccessfully attempt to delegitimize the claims that finasteride has associated risks." which is a complete lie. that is just a fancy way of calling me a troll!
This is what I actually said, "He seems to have no other objective other than to provoke other members and unsuccessfully attempt to delegitimize the claims that finasteride has associated risks."

You are again twisting my words to alter the connotation of what I am saying and this is why you seem like a troll. Why don't you directly answer the questions? What are your objectives for obsessing over the risks of Propecia and are you employed by the pharmaceutical industry in any direct or indirect way?
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Old 05-01-2012, 08:20 PM   #68
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I bet what with these new FDA rulings and the few people who suffer being so vocal about it, Merck will want to get this figured out. And hey, guys, let's go easy on people who are suffering. You gotta understand why they may be a little passionate about the subject, even if they number very few. I mean, shouldn't you want this talked about. Wouldn't you like it if they figured this out and 100% of people could be helped by finasteride instead of 98%?

And hey, if they figured it out, you'd get to quit hearing all this whining. There's a plus, right?
So far Merck has responded to the FDA warning by denying any connection between finasteride and persistent erectile dysfunction which is agitating but unsurprising. They will not do so unless the court system/ FDA legally forces them to since they don't really have a culture that cares about patients but is more concentrated on profits. Lawsuits, executive action, or money are really the only few things that motivate such a callous company. They especially would not like to publicly admit anything due to the fact these side effects seem to be permanent since very, very few recover or improve from them, even as far as ten years off the drug.
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Old 05-01-2012, 08:24 PM   #69
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Why don't you directly answer the questions? What are your objectives for obsessing over the risks of Propecia and are you employed by the pharmaceutical industry in any direct or indirect way?
I already answered it, check the other nocebo thread, and answer my last post while you are at it unless you are done that debate?
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Old 05-01-2012, 08:41 PM   #70
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Gotta be honest man: that was an incredibly f*ckin' dick thing to say.

He would probably love for finasteride to have worked fine for him. Are you seriously making fun of him for balding and suffering side effects from one of the only treatments? Usually I try to be pretty positive, but QUIT BEING A C*CK.

I'll try to be double positive for a while to make up for that.

Yeah whatever man. Millions of people are bald. Big deal.
It's just a dumb drug. get over it.
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