The 50 Graft Test Procedure

[JJJJrS]

I started a thread almost a year ago hoping to get some answers on the HST procedure. Since then, we've seen a new interview with Dr. Gho and a detailed analysis of gc83uk's donor. While these steps have increased our understanding of the procedure, the debate still continues.

Up to this point, the missing piece of the puzzle has been an independent analysis that includes both the donor and the recipient. From my own experience studying the procedure, in order to accomplish such an analysis, the procedure has to be manageable. In other words, it's unrealistic to expect a mapping of someone's entire head with clear, zoomed-in photos and an analysis of hundreds of extraction and insertion points.

So how can we get the conclusive evidence we want that will show how well HST works in practice? In my opinion, the easiest way to do this is with a 50-graft test procedure. This means:

- 50 grafts (including 1-hair, 2-hair, and 3-hair follicular units) are extracted from a small area (2-3 cm^2).
- These 50 grafts are then implanted into a slick bald area, approx. 2 cm^2 in size

While it is not necessary to mark these two areas with a non-permanent tattoo, high quality, zoomed-in pictures of these two areas must be taken both before and after the procedure. This will allow anyone to easily count the hairs in the donor and recipient, before and after the procedure, and conclusively see whether or not hair multiplication is occurring.

[JJJJrS]

There's one small catch however. In the past, HASCI has offered 50-graft procedures but unfortunately, it seems that they only offer these procedures now for the most difficult candidates.

This is where Spencer Kobren can help. We know that Spencer and Dr. Gho have discussed a visit to HASCI in the summer. In my opinion, visiting HASCI and just taping a normal procedure isn't worth the effort. But convincing Dr. Gho to perform the 50-graft procedure and documenting the whole thing, including any analysis, would be huge. The significance and amount of interest this would bring would be enormous for the hairloss community.

There would be no need to endorse or discredit the procedure. As long as the pictures and numbers are posted, the results would speak for themselves. Spencer could discuss the process with Dr. Gho and bring along someone who could help him with the documentation, if necessary. As a consumer advocate, I can't think of anything more worthwhile to do than to get to the bottom of a potentially revolutionary treatment. If the procedure works as described, we'll start a similar campaign/initiative to get this procedure in the hands of responsible surgeons which will benefit everyone.

This is where I need all your help. Please support the initiative and spread the word. Whether that's asking Spencer or Dr. Gho himself, we need this 50-graft test procedure to happen!

[534623]

So how can we get the conclusive evidence we want that will show how well HST works in practice? In my opinion, the easiest way to do this is with a 50-graft test procedure.

How we can get the conclusive evidence for how HST works in DAILY PRACTICE?

You did it, I did it already - our analysis simply have shown the daily HST practice.

Sure, a 50 graft test procedure, as described by you, would be nice to see, no doubts, but such a test would definitely NOT show you the daily practice!

Here is just 1 reason and later argument of naysayers:

This is a snippet of Dr. Gho's "HST proof of concept" paper.
As you can see, it took them up to 2 minutes (!) to extract just 1 HST graft - guess why...

TODAY, in the daily practice?
pffffft, it takes them not even 2 seconds to extract 1 HST graft - and this can have, let's say, "mixed results" as you/we could see them in the donor area - and not those results under "controlled conditions", as Dr. Gho reported them in his paper.

Sure, you, as a patent, you can also get such "controlled extraction conditions", but be prepared concerning the costs:

Example: 1500 HST grafts x 1.68 minutes = 2520 minutes = 42 hours

So, that means your 1500 HST grafts procedure will take them almost a full working week just for the (controlled) extraction of your 1500 HST grafts....

BUT, I can almost promise you, that thereafter, you will get almost 100% donor regeneration.

[hellouser]

A price drop is badly needed too, essentially for a 1,400-1,600 graft procedure the cost is about $12,000 USD. That's a whopping amount and out of reach for many people even with average paying salaries. Considering it takes 9-12 months between procedures and up to 7 years to regain a NW1 level from NW7 with adequate density is also far too long for everyone to enjoy their life. I'm 29 and would not want to be 36 with nearly $100,000 spent on my hair.

I'd like to see what Gho's got in store for us with his 'HST 3.0' findings (multiple hairs from a single graft).

In regards to the 50 hair graft test, you need to reach out to Spencer first and have the members and readers of The Bald Truth take notice before doing anything yourself. Something like this could cost a lot of money.

Also, the 50 graft test could be scrapped because of Gho's queue. Apparently he doesn't do graft checks anymore either. This is probably to get more patients into his clinics and shorten the wait time.

[534623]

TODAY, in the daily practice?
pffffft, it takes them not even 2 seconds to extract 1 HST graft - and this can have, let's say, "mixed results" as you/we could see them in the donor area - and not those results under "controlled conditions", as Dr. Gho reported them in his paper.

By the way, what I tried to tell you:
You simplly can't have both - 1) perfect HST extractions and 2) FAST.

HST instruments and extractions can be perfect to really get 2 hairs from 1 - the problem is that the patients' grafts do not grow perfect in the skin.

[JJJJrS]

How we can get the conclusive evidence for how HST works in DAILY PRACTICE?

You did it, I did it already - our analysis simply have shown the daily HST practice.

Sure, a 50 graft test procedure, as described by you, would be nice to see, no doubts, but such a test would definitely NOT show you the daily practice!

Here is just 1 reason and later argument of naysayers:

This is a snippet of Dr. Gho's "HST proof of concept" paper.
As you can see, it took them up to 2 minutes (!) to extract just 1 HST graft - guess why...

TODAY, in the daily practice?
pffffft, it takes them not even 2 seconds to extract 1 HST graft - and this can have, let's say, "mixed results" as you/we could see them in the donor area - and not those results under "controlled conditions", as Dr. Gho reported them in his paper.

Sure, you, as a patent, you can also get such "controlled extraction conditions", but be prepared concerning the costs:

Example: 1500 HST grafts x 1.68 minutes = 2520 minutes = 42 hours

So, that means your 1500 HST grafts procedure will take them almost a full working week just for the (controlled) extraction of your 1500 HST grafts....

BUT, I can almost promise you, that thereafter, you will get almost 100% donor regeneration.

I always try to approach things step-by-step. At this moment, there are many people who still don't believe the procedure is possible or have doubts over how well it works.

Personally, I think it would be fascinating to see how well HST works in an ideal, controlled setting. If you can show what's possible with enough effort and time, that's extremely powerful, especially when we're discussing hair multiplication.

But your point is spot-on and totally accurate. The ideal, controlled setting is not the same as a standard procedure so the results wouldn't necessarily be the same for your average patient.

While we've documented a very accurate picture of the donor for a couple of patients, we haven't been able to include the recipient. Unfortunately, I can't think of a practical way to analyse these larger procedures in a complete manner. There would be too many extraction and insertion points and too large of an area to map. In addition we'd need a larger sample size of patients. With that in mind, I think the best thing to do is to take advantage of what's possible. If anyone has any other ideas though, I'd love to hear them.

[JJJJrS]

A price drop is badly needed too, essentially for a 1,400-1,600 graft procedure the cost is about $12,000 USD. That's a whopping amount and out of reach for many people even with average paying salaries. Considering it takes 9-12 months between procedures and up to 7 years to regain a NW1 level from NW7 with adequate density is also far too long for everyone to enjoy their life. I'm 29 and would not want to be 36 with nearly $100,000 spent on my hair.

These are valid points, especially in these hard economic times.

But I think we should neglect cost, time and other practical aspects for a moment and focus on the larger picture and procedure itself. Hair multiplication is the "Holy Grail" of this industry. Up to this point, nobody has been able to demonstrate hair multiplication in a consistent and practical manner, even if the multiplication rate is x2 for HST.

By proving that this is possible on a platform like the Bald Truth, you're immediately speeding up the whole process. The more people that accept and work with HST, if it indeed works as well as is claimed, the more likely we are to see practical improvements or decreases in cost. That should be the end goal.

I'd like to see what Gho's got in store for us with his 'HST 3.0' findings (multiple hairs from a single graft).

As am I and this is what I mean when I talk about the big picture. If we can prove that you can get 2 hairs for one, why not 3 or more?

In regards to the 50 hair graft test, you need to reach out to Spencer first and have the members and readers of The Bald Truth take notice before doing anything yourself. Something like this could cost a lot of money.

Also, the 50 graft test could be scrapped because of Gho's queue. Apparently he doesn't do graft checks anymore either. This is probably to get more patients into his clinics and shorten the wait time.

Your last point might be valid if your average patient asks but conclusively demonstrating that your procedure works on a platform as large as the Bald Truth would be huge. It would be very, very unusual if Dr. Gho would refuse something like that.

[Kiwi]

We've got nothing to loose by encouraging Spencer to get involved.

[didi]

I have been talkin about elusive 50 grafts test for a while now.
I suggested 17 sngles, 17 doubles and 17 triplets..51 all up, easy as.

According to my research good HASCI tech extracts 300-400 grafts per hour, lets say 300...50 grafts will take only 10 minutes ....give them 15 min max...they not gonna get all day to extracts lousy 50 hairs.....before they are extrcted they have to be marked so we can see exactly wht has been trageted,




If all 51 grafts grow FULLY in BOTH donor and recipient then we have final proof, Spence does not need to endorse it, it wont be needed.




how do we get Spence to read this thread

[Gandolf]

how do we get Spence to read this thread

You could always call into his weekly show and ask him live on the air.

[gc83uk]

You could always call into his weekly show and ask him live on the air.

Exactly this. Be a man!

[didi]

I sent him Facebook message with the link to this thread, fingers crossed

JJJJr mentioned something about starting initiative in regard to Gho Test, he is the man who can make it happen, I dont know know what exactly he had in mind but lets be optimistic and hope it happens sooner rather than later.


We need all Gho fanboys and doubters to come together and apply preassure on Spence,
I wish Iron Man was more proctive but he doesnt seem to see benefits of 50 graft test,



Gc

In meantime can you upload photos of your SIDE and top of your head(birds eye view) so HST enthusiasts can analize it

[534623]

If all 51 grafts grow FULLY in BOTH donor and recipient then we have final proof...

Sure, and then you will buy it - right? Right.

Hey girl, be glad that such a 50 grafts test procedure doesn’t exist - so as long as something like this doesn’t exist, you can always pretend your empty wallet “I don’t buy it because a 50 grafts test procedure doesn’t exist…blah blah etc etc blah blah…” – so be happy...

By the way, I’m sure they can organize for you a 50 grafts test procedure with everything included like semi-permanent tattoos in the donor and recipient area, a separate Petri-dish for the 50 grafts from the marked area so that you’re even able to take good photos of these grafts etc etc and everything is possible during a normal HST procedure - in simple words, almost exactly the same as Dr. Gho did it with his 5 proof of concept trail subjects.

Ah, I know, you can’t do this; because if they extract far more than 50 grafts during a normal HST procedure – didi’s life would be completely destroyed thereafter...

[didi]

It sounds like IM doesnt want test to go ahead,
How come you are the only one who oposes such a brilliant idea?

Did you read my analysis of GCs recipient, average hairs/graft is way to low, there are some concerns..splittin theory is still possible..

people are reporting thin regrowth, Spence also said the same, Gcs results confirmed it...


543234
How do you explain that most of GCs hairs in recipient are 1s when his donor is full of 2s even after 3000 grfts are extracted..?Keep in mind its easier for hasci to extract multi grafts, aparently...

Since you are HST guru, explain to us

[534623]

It sounds like IM doesnt want test to go ahead,
How come you are the only one who oposes such a brilliant idea?

I'm not against this at all - but I can't do this, because there are guys out there who always say "IronMan is HST biased". So I'm not a good candidate - BUT YOU'RE THE PERFECT CANDIDATE ...
... as just suggested:

http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showpost.php?p=107268&postcount=13