Histogen Update - Spencer Kobren Speaks With Dr. Craig L. Ziering

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Originally Posted by KeepHoping

What I mean by pushing for an earlier release is once phase 1/2 trails are completing proving that the product is safe and effective

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Phase I/II trials don't "prove that the product is safe"; at best they document that no significant problems have yet been uncovered. Plenty of treatments have cleared all trial testing and secured FDA approval, only to be recalled after later being connected to serious health issues.

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Originally Posted by Mojo Risin

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I mean, if you look at their results ... if it's only this kind of result that you get, if you're bald, you'll still look pretty bald to me.

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Dr Ziering has already stated that they are at around 21 - 27% yield per cm2, if they can get to 45 - 50% that will bring back your original density, there is no reason why we couldn't use HSC to gain the density that even the best HT lacks.

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Originally Posted by KeepHoping

What I mean by pushing for an earlier release is once phase 1/2 trails are completing proving that the product is safe and effective then they should release the product in countries that have less restrictions and continue on with their trials to have it released in Asia and the US afterward. Otherwise the consumers will have to wait through another long (1-2 years) phase 3 trail. I think this should be considered by Histogen, would bring in a lot of revenue to conduct more trails on more products as well as helping a lot of people in need out.

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There are often two Phase III trials and even a Phase IV - never mind releasing it at Phase II - anything can be discovered when you go from a test sample of 50 - 100 patients to 300 - 3,000 patients. Each phase is always determining safety and efficacy, if you're in Phase III - You're not out of the woods yet. I am surprised Histogen are moving so fast in-fact, their proposals for a 2014 release could never be possible within the US - FDA trials typically consume a decade of research and practice before reaching market, so be thankful they are pursuing research in Asia and dont take current progress for granted, slow progress is better than no progress.

I try not to check into this thread often because it's discouraging. The reality for someone with aggressive hair loss is frustrating because I will lose everything before this product comes to the market. Based off of what posters are saying, those who will benefit most are those who still have some hair left. I currently do, but that will not be the case by 2014. I've been battling this for 3.5 years and will be at a point where I can't hide it anymore before this year is over.

And how much is this likely to cost when/if it becomes available?

A damn fortune I expect, so that's me and many other sufferers out of the picture.

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Originally Posted by Jcm800

And how much is this likely to cost when/if it becomes available?

A damn fortune I expect, so that's me and many other sufferers out of the picture.

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Dont know but it sure as hell wont be a month of minimum wage.

To be honest even it costs £50k id do it - id splash all my savings for a better treatment for hair loss - hair is priceless - we all know that, just look at the sheer passion for hair we see on this website lol its great! :D

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Originally Posted by ThinFast

I try not to check into this thread often because it's discouraging. The reality for someone with aggressive hair loss is frustrating because I will lose everything before this product comes to the market. Based off of what posters are saying, those who will benefit most are those who still have some hair left. I currently do, but that will not be the case by 2014. I've been battling this for 3.5 years and will be at a point where I can't hide it anymore before this year is over.

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If you still have hair, I doubt you will lose everything by 2014. You will
Be fine. We might lose some but not all.

So why are you guys so about it? Fact is, there was significant sustaining hair growth even after a critical two years mark.

Even if it would just give people back around 40% of their original density, those people could easily use something like Gho for a transplant or so and we all won

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Originally Posted by RichardDawkins

So why are you guys so about it? Fact is, there was significant sustaining hair growth even after a critical two years mark.

Even if it would just give people back around 40% of their original density, those people could easily use something like Gho for a transplant or so and we all won

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So what Dr Gho has done is legit? Is it official? Spencer can't get a hold of him.

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Originally Posted by RichardDawkins

So why are you guys so about it? Fact is, there was significant sustaining hair growth even after a critical two years mark.

Even if it would just give people back around 40% of their original density, those people could easily use something like Gho for a transplant or so and we all won

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I'd like Dr. Gho to be interviewed by Spencer, and perhaps to post on this Web site his progress with his work.

Also, 40% is nothing to to happy with, if nor no other reason than things cost money. Let's say H.S.C. treatment costs $15,000 and supplemental transplantation costs another $15,000 (just vague figures) — I'd wager most of us would rather avoid eternal bankruptcy in the quest for hair, if we can.

i already send an email to Spencer and aksed him if he could interview Gho. Till today i didnt get a response but who knows

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Originally Posted by HairTalk

I'd like Dr. Gho to be interviewed by Spencer, and perhaps to post on this Web site his progress with his work.

Also, 40% is nothing to to happy with, if nor no other reason than things cost money. Let's say H.S.C. treatment costs $15,000 and supplemental transplantation costs another $15,000 (just vague figures) — I'd wager most of us would rather avoid eternal bankruptcy in the quest for hair, if we can.

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I'd pay 30,000 USD for a full head of hair - if that's what it costs to have a full head of hair i'd be more than happy.

I'll pay that as well. If it's a full head of hair that will last till I die, of course I will.

I have no idea how you all have swallowed the whole notion that you dont even start to notice hair loss until 50%!! That is such a crock.

If you actually believe you can take like 50 thousand hairs off a human head and you would not be able to see a large difference you are crazy. I know its hard to wrap your heads around, mine included, but we need somewhere more around 75% of each individuals density.

If histogen could get us 50% I would still be very happy as it would help so many other guys on here and allow those who have not had hts(scar issue) to shave thir heads short and just keep that hairstyle pretty undetectable of hair loss issues.

lets hope HSC can get through trials successfully and get something to market in Asia in 2015/2016. that 2013 was never a realistic timeline imo.

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Originally Posted by CAlex

I have no idea how you all have swallowed the whole notion that you dont even start to notice hair loss until 50%!! That is such a crock.

If you actually believe you can take like 50 thousand hairs off a human head and you would not be able to see a large difference you are crazy. I know its hard to wrap your heads around, mine included, but we need somewhere more around 75% of each individuals density.

If histogen could get us 50% I would still be very happy as it would help so many other guys on here and allow those who have not had hts(scar issue) to shave thir heads short and just keep that hairstyle pretty undetectable of hair loss issues.

lets hope HSC can get through trials successfully and get something to market in Asia in 2015/2016. that 2013 was never a realistic timeline imo.

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I rekon even with 85 hairs per cm2 you'd pull off a nice full head of hair if you conflate it with a hair transplant... but more information is needed on how the mechanism is working, scalp biopsies have shown it is safe, i'd love to know exactly what is going on down there, what are those wnt proteins are doing when they get inside the scalp.

Forget just paying for the treatment, if they bring something successful to the market by 2013 that can provide an effective treatment that beats the current FDA approved meds on the market id donate all my savings to the company and then pay for the treatment with a loan.

People keep saying that this treatment is proven to be safe already and that could not be more untrue. Dr. Craig Ziering has mentioned that so far they have not seen any complications, which is a good sign. But far from any final proof of this treatment as safe.

The main objective of phase 1 studies is to check for safety issues, whilst the objective of phase 2 studies is to check for effectivness.

Histogen are yet to even START phase one studies. So we all just need to realize that so far this is promising, but histogen still have a long way to go before they are even close to being able to release anything to the market.

WNT-proteins and the WNT-signalling pathway are very often overexpressed in various types of cancers, because it is essentially necessary for unregulated cellproliferation.
I am not saying this to be discouraging, but I believe it is important that we can keep these types of discussions on a reasonable level and saying that injecting WNT-proteins into the scalp is clinically proven to be a safe treatment for hair loss is far from reasonable. There is not point in getting our hopes up too high too soon.

SORRY guys in advance, but I found this article "update" about HM quite interesting, I know it's nothing to do with Histogen so I am very sorry in advance.

Looks like bad news - they're not agreeing to the "in the next 5 years" lol...

They claim that they can achieve 1 or 2 hairs from one, but want to get up to the level of 1000 hairs from one! :d Christ! Forget that lets just go with the 1 or 2 hairs from one that'll do me!!

Bullshit really - he plays down whether it will be released in 5 years or not... there you have it... wer still decades off.

http://www.smh.com.au/technology/sci...430-1e235.html

Cheers!

Are you sure that's a current article? I'm pretty sure I read that exact article last summer, and it was dated 2006. Maybe someone just reposted it with a current date. As far as hair loss research goes, it seems pretty out-of-date. Everyone in the field knows that they are actually WELL INTO human clinical trials at this point, not looking at potential trials two years from now. I mean, it actually mentions Intercytex as being an active player in this game, when we all know they're done, right?

Dr. Ziering, your answers are much appreciated. I have another question: are there any plans CURRENTLY in the works for female trials? Do you have any kind of timeframe or estimated start date?

Women with hair loss suffer a great deal as well, particularly the women who have to experience it at young ages. Trichoscience is including both men and women in their study, why can't Histogen do the same?

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Originally Posted by Nilli57211

Are you sure that's a current article? I'm pretty sure I read that exact article last summer, and it was dated 2006. Maybe someone just reposted it with a current date. As far as hair loss research goes, it seems pretty out-of-date. Everyone in the field knows that they are actually WELL INTO human clinical trials at this point, not looking at potential trials two years from now. I mean, it actually mentions Intercytex as being an active player in this game, when we all know they're done, right?

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I doubt that very much, Intercytex were back up early last year, these guys are not even 5 years away they are saying.... i cant believe this, its like a dagger in ur soul i wish they would for Gods sake shut up with all this "here in 5 years" and then come out 3 years later and laugh about asking if its still 2 - 5 years away.

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Originally Posted by UK_

SORRY guys in advance, but I found this article "update" about HM quite interesting, I know it's nothing to do with Histogen so I am very sorry in advance.

Looks like bad news - they're not agreeing to the "in the next 5 years" lol...

They claim that they can achieve 1 or 2 hairs from one, but want to get up to the level of 1000 hairs from one! :d Christ! Forget that lets just go with the 1 or 2 hairs from one that'll do me!!

Bullshit really - he plays down whether it will be released in 5 years or not... there you have it... wer still decades off.

http://www.smh.com.au/technology/sci...430-1e235.html

Cheers!

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Ah he mentions the german guys, they have said that trials are on their way. And of course they wanna create 1000 and more from one because this means more money and less working (Money vultures) For 10000 grafts you have to ectract 5000 but with creating 1000 from one its just like extracting 10. The cloning or multiplication process itself is an automatic one.

I am looking into my glass bowl and i see : They will use different things like ECM and growth factors to achieve this.

But did i read it right they implanted those artificial follicles into the sole of mice? This is ****ing crude, its like transplanting hairs on our tings or so. Ok its good to hear that this works but man i dont know, instead they should use guinea pigs from those forums here :-) and maybe fill in their strip scars at first to test it

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Originally Posted by RichardDawkins

Ah he mentions the german guys, they have said that trials are on their way. And of course they wanna create 1000 and more from one because this means more money and less working (Money vultures) For 10000 grafts you have to ectract 5000 but with creating 1000 from one its just like extracting 10. The cloning or multiplication process itself is an automatic one.

I am looking into my glass bowl and i see : They will use different things like ECM and growth factors to achieve this.

But did i read it right they implanted those artificial follicles into the sole of mice? This is ****ing crude, its like transplanting hairs on our tings or so. Ok its good to hear that this works but man i dont know, instead they should use guinea pigs from those forums here :-) and maybe fill in their strip scars at first to test it

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It does work, look at Aderans' results, they have seen an increase of 60 -70% hairs by extracting and injecting stem cells into bald scalps, stem cells that for one work and are resistant to androgens, its just the 5 year bullshit that pisses me off, i mean whats the big hold up? TEN YEARS!!!! Aderans are already in phase II human trials I dont see why these guys are still at "mouse stage" in all fairness, they should have done this a decade ago!

I dont wanna flame and crush you, but its really all about money, literally to get more money with less working done :( i am dead serious. That those things works should be clear but hey if they think they can lower the working time or make it easier to get more money, they will abso ****ing lutely do it and thats were you have your average "5 years bla bla stuff"

Hey i absolutely agree with you on the "They should have done this a decade ago" but the same thing goes for all surgeons, they should have pursued the Gho way earlier.

Nice we finally agree on something :-)

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Originally Posted by RichardDawkins

I dont wanna flame and crush you, but its really all about money, literally to get more money with less working done :( i am dead serious. That those things works should be clear but hey if they think they can lower the working time or make it easier to get more money, they will abso ****ing lutely do it and thats were you have your average "5 years bla bla stuff"

Hey i absolutely agree with you on the "They should have done this a decade ago" but the same thing goes for all surgeons, they should have pursued the Gho way earlier.

Nice we finally agree on something :-)

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you seen this?

http://www.bioregenerativesciences.c...for-women.html

Hair STEMulating Complex - utter Histogen knock off - i'd love to hear Dr Zierings thoughts on this product lol.

A number of questions instantly arise... was this put through clinical trial? What are the active ingredients (I will literally shoot myself if it contains Saw Palmetto) How effective is it? Where is the proof??

Yop i saw this especialle the STEM instead of STIMulating thing

All i know is, it wont be 10 years before we got a solution but science and researchers should not be so OVERLY Careful. THey should grab some forum users here and go for it :-)

I would volunteer and take one for the team ^^

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Originally Posted by RichardDawkins

Yop i saw this especialle the STEM instead of STIMulating thing

All i know is, it wont be 10 years before we got a solution but science and researchers should not be so OVERLY Careful. THey should grab some forum users here and go for it :-)

I would volunteer and take one for the team ^^

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What do u think? Are you gonna order some?

It looks so convincing, I cant believe (if they are scammers) how they pull off being so legit... they play with your wishes... I wish this was it... but I know deep down it cant be.

Naaa i wont order this because imho i wait for one of the big players or go to Gho thats it. But if this stuff is valid well i may reevaluate my thinking.

But right now i would more consider something like Gho because those are consitent and solid results but what do i know

http://www.stophairlossnow.co.uk/New...es-101380.html

Well here they state they went though the same type of clinical trials as Histogen, ive also just sent them an email asking several questions about this trial, first of all, can I see the results from it? lol... I hope this is the one... I hope and pray this is at least SOMETHING.

Whether this is a scam or not, I believe this will be the model of what will form as THE HOLY GRAIL - a topical application that works at just triggering those dormant stem cells into growth... I DO see hope on the HM side, but this type of technology fits so well with the research that found the remaining inactive stem cells in bald scalps.

Histogen shall wear the crown (no pun intended) if they can prove their product safe and effective at 50%+ yield.

Well to be honest, i think the standard of regrowth will be 70 to 80% tops. Yes stem cells will be THE solution in terms of transplantation or HM.

Looks very bad on the FUT side though, you agree. I mean i was really shocked to hear that in germany some scientist created artificial follicles, cause i never would have imgained that this is actually be doing right now

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Originally Posted by RichardDawkins

Well to be honest, i think the standard of regrowth will be 70 to 80% tops. Yes stem cells will be THE solution in terms of transplantation or HM.

Looks very bad on the FUT side though, you agree. I mean i was really shocked to hear that in germany some scientist created artificial follicles, cause i never would have imgained that this is actually be doing right now

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And if you think about it... they started off in 1997 - a decade before Histogen, I mean read this from their "company" section, you cannot help but make the comparisons to the approach Histogen use:

"The efficacy of BioRegenerative Sciences' stem cell products and therapeutics largely result from the release of a full complement of molecules from the stem cells, including growth factors, cytokines, interleukins, and other protein molecules. BioRegenerative Sciences utilizes our proprietary SRM technology (stem cell released molecules technology) to deliver all of the active molecules released by stem cells."

I mean this is just like what Histogen are doing with their dermal fibroblasts, they're (from hypoxic conditions) extracting certain proteins and growth factors that facilitate hair growth - their key ingredient is WNT7A... I wonder what BioRegenerative Sciences' key ingredient is.

In the future this stem cell treatments will be combined with HT used with HM for best density and results, but for now we all have to wait years for this to become a reality.
Its really frustrating, but still if or when it comes out and the results are good, a lot of sufferers will go on immediate high. :). I remain a skeptic until then.
Still seems to me that their info is very similar to that of Histogen.

I'd certainly have a punt on this as and when the men's version becomes available, sound's interesting.

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Originally Posted by Jcm800

I'd certainly have a punt on this as and when the men's version becomes available, sound's interesting.

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I hope they distribute in the UK - I hate paying our import taxes.

Agreed! But if it does the job..

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Originally Posted by Jcm800

Agreed! But if it does the job..

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if it does the job ill swim across the pond to get me some.

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Originally Posted by UK_

I doubt that very much, Intercytex were back up early last year, these guys are not even 5 years away they are saying.... i cant believe this, its like a dagger in ur soul i wish they would for Gods sake shut up with all this "here in 5 years" and then come out 3 years later and laugh about asking if its still 2 - 5 years away.

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This has to be an old article, or one that was complied with very little research, yes Intercytex has re-launched, however they are no longer looking at HM/cloning, they sold all of their research/patents to Aderans when they went into administration.

I don't think its an old article rehashed, but we must always take article like this in newspapers with a grain of salt as they can be grossly underinformed and only represent one side of the story. The fact that they even neglected to mention Histogen in place Intercytex should be the first sign that the journalist only did very basic research, considering Intercytex's current involvement in the HM field.

And while i'm hopeful that these treatments will pull through in the short term (as a diffuse thinner I feel they would have fantastic results for me), we have to be realistic in saying that all the companies in the game have an equal chance of succeeding, as well as an equal chance of failing and pinning our every hope to either outcome, for whatever reason, can only create more stress in our already unfortunately stressed lives. I mean Histogen have only ever presented a few graphs and photos showing promising but also dubious results, and the other companies have also been shrouded in secrecy. I'm not a sceptic, I want these treatments to work, and I want them to be on the market as soon as possible, but we really need to be a bit realistic about the prospects right now.

Just sayin'

Also, my views on Histogen could be significantly altered in less than a months time when they present at the World Congress of Dermatology in Korea. That will be the next big indicator of where they are at with their programs. If the results are good it could also spur Follica on to release some more information on the current state of their very guarded trials. We'll just have to wait and see

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Originally Posted by UK_

if it does the job ill swim across the pond to get me some.

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I'm buying some trunks. Anyway let us know if they get back to you, fingers crossed it's not a scam, have a feeling it may be a worthy gamble tho :)