• 02-05-2011 06:08 PM
    tbtadmin
    Histogen Update - Spencer Kobren Speaks With Dr. Craig L. Ziering
  • 02-06-2011 03:32 AM
    fontanajul
    What an excellent interview! Thank you so much for giving me some hope. I have a few questions that maybe someone could address? It might be a little early to ask these things, but I figured I'd ask anyway. So basically, I'm curious about...

    1. Has there been an estimated cost for HSC injections?
    2. Is there any way to see photo results from the first trial?

    Thanks in advance,
    Max
  • 02-06-2011 07:45 AM
    RichardDawkins
    Nice interview, i really expected the worst things but man, i got the strange feeling i know which Guys from the forum here are ment to be that little bit of pushy :-)
  • 02-06-2011 09:33 AM
    PayDay
    Great interview Spencer! Let me be the first to agree with Dr. Ziering that if it weren’t for you none of this information would be available to us. It’s because of these interviews and everything else you give us that everyone is talking about this stuff all over the internet an maybe some of the doctors are working even harder to solve this thing. You are the man! I'm stoked about this!
  • 02-06-2011 09:48 AM
    blowmeup
    Thanks for the interview Spencer, it was very informative. I’m a little disappointed to hear that Dr. Ziring does not seem sure about the timeline, but I’m very happy that everything appears to be moving in a positive direction. Will Dr. Ziering be answering questions on the forum? I wanted to know if having a hair transplant now will interfere with having Histogen injections in the future?
  • 02-06-2011 10:04 AM
    gmonasco
    I found the interview disappointingly vague. Lots of happy talk, but precious little detail about what, if anything, they've found that Histogen can actually do in the trials conducted so far.
  • 02-06-2011 10:31 AM
    blowmeup
    I’m pretty sure that was all covered in this interview.

    http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showthread.php?t=1560
  • 02-06-2011 10:40 AM
    RichardDawkins
    I have to agree...... Didnt you listen to the interview :confused:
  • 02-06-2011 08:28 PM
    reset
    Thanks for the interview Spencer. It`s great we`re able to hear directly from the guys in the field. I don`t know if any one at Histogen is taking taking questions now, but I`ve heard about `Pan-Asian` trials but aside from Singapore I haven`t heard of any other countries in Asia taking part in the trials. Which, if any, other countries are going to take part in the trials? Thanks.
  • 02-06-2011 11:30 PM
    gmonasco
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by RichardDawkins View Post
    Didnt you listen to the interview

    Yes, I did. Didn't you read my post? I could hardly have said I found it lacking in detail if I hadn't listened to it.

    As I said, there was lots of happy noise about what Histogen might do, but precious little solid info about what it has actually proved to do so far.
  • 02-07-2011 01:35 AM
    RichardDawkins
    But right now there isnt much else to say they did test if HSC could be dangerous, and it isnt.

    They saw hair still be there after two years and now they gonna for different approches after 6 weeks etc which is exactly according to plan.

    I dont think that it was all happy talk, it was a realistic observation from someone at the source.

    The most important thing is, its safe AND the hair stays, who knows what can be achieved with higher injections here and there. At least from the data it could hairtransplants make more sufficient with less grafts to plant.

    Also the idea about Histogen in the first round to stop hairloss and grow back special parts and then go for Acell orientated hair transplant is pretty damn good.
  • 02-07-2011 10:34 AM
    gmonasco
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by RichardDawkins View Post
    But right now there isnt much else to say

    My point exactly. No substantive information is not exactly something to be optimistic about.

    Quote:

    it was a realistic observation from someone at the source
    But someone who also has a vested interest in making things seem as positive as possible.

    Quote:

    The most important thing is, its safe AND the hair stays
    Neither of those factors has been established yet.

    First of all, early stage clinical trials seek to determine whether a particular treatment manifests any immediately obvious deleterious effects serious enough to warrant discontinuation of the trials. If if doesn't, then the trials can proceed, but that milestone is very far from demonstrating that a treatment is "safe" in an overall sense. Safety is something which can only be determined with much wider trials, a much larger user base, and the passage of time (as numerous recalls of previously approved drugs have demonstrated).

    Second, any trial of a treatment for regrowing hair would realistically have run at least two years (and possibly longer) just to determine whether the new hairs produced by the treatment survive an anagen/telogen cycle. Even then, you don't know for sure -- a newly produced hair might survive the first cycle, but that's no guarantee it won't, say, (akin to miniaturization) grow progressively weaker and fail to survive subsequent cycles. What the long term benefits or effects will be are something that can only be determined in the long term, and obviously none of us here is going to be able to wait a couple of lifetimes to verrify how things pan out.
  • 02-07-2011 02:16 PM
    CVAZBAR
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by gmonasco View Post
    My point exactly. No substantive information is not exactly something to be optimistic about.



    But someone who also has a vested interest in making things seem as positive as possible.



    Neither of those factors has been established yet.

    First of all, early stage clinical trials seek to determine whether a particular treatment manifests any immediately obvious deleterious effects serious enough to warrant discontinuation of the trials. If if doesn't, then the trials can proceed, but that milestone is very far from demonstrating that a treatment is "safe" in an overall sense. Safety is something which can only be determined with much wider trials, a much larger user base, and the passage of time (as numerous recalls of previously approved drugs have demonstrated).

    Second, any trial of a treatment for regrowing hair would realistically have run at least two years (and possibly longer) just to determine whether the new hairs produced by the treatment survive an anagen/telogen cycle. Even then, you don't know for sure -- a newly produced hair might survive the first cycle, but that's no guarantee it won't, say, (akin to miniaturization) grow progressively weaker and fail to survive subsequent cycles. What the long term benefits or effects will be are something that can only be determined in the long term, and obviously none of us here is going to be able to wait a couple of lifetimes to verrify how things pan out.

    Well if you already knew all the answers, why are you disappointed? I doubt you will have to wait a LIFETIME homie so don't worry about that ha. So what if the hair wont survive the cycle? If it grew it in the first place, then get another injection. I think its pretty obvious that we still don't know shit about it but i do know we wont have to wait a couple of lifetimes to find out. We will know soon enough.
  • 02-07-2011 02:44 PM
    CVAZBAR
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ZM4HAIR View Post
    Right now Singapore but possibly Korea as well.

    I know you spoke about the 2 year trials so far and how hairs were still present after that time. If histogen does not do much as far as growth for some, will it at least guarantee no further hair loss? Did you notice this in pre trials?
  • 02-07-2011 05:54 PM
    gmonasco
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by CVAZBAR View Post
    Well if you already knew all the answers, why are you disappointed? I doubt you will have to wait a LIFETIME homie so don't worry about that ha. So what if the hair wont survive the cycle? If it grew it in the first place, then get another injection. I think its pretty obvious that we still don't know shit about it but i do know we wont have to wait a couple of lifetimes to find out. We will know soon enough.

    You might find this system works best if you actually take the time to read and comprehend material prior to responding to it.
  • 02-08-2011 02:41 AM
    abb83
    everything sounds interesting but if 2013-2014 wasnt mentioned as potential dates this is very frustrating :s
  • 02-08-2011 04:29 AM
    fontanajul
    Thanks Dr. Ziering for posting replies to all our questions. That's pretty awesome of you. I'm really looking forward to hearing and seeing more from histogen!

    -Max
  • 02-08-2011 08:15 AM
    blowmeup
    Thanks for answering my question Dr. Ziering, this is by far the best and most informative hair forum on the internet!!! When I read some of the other ones it all posts based on speculation from people who really have no clue what’s going on.

    One more thing doctor if you don’t mind, do you think a person who’s approaching a Norwood 5 or 6 can be helped with Histogen?

    Thank you:)
  • 02-08-2011 01:46 PM
    Westonci
    Hello Dr. Ziering.

    I got an email from gail naugton last month saying "We are starting phase 1/2 in Singapore before the end of May and hope to have phase 3 pan-Asian data by Sept 2012 for an NDA submission and 2013 approval. (hopefull Q2 2013)."

    Is it possible that the NDA submissions could be shortened? Does it have to be 6-12 months long?

    Is it possible to lobby the Singapore Health Authority to shorten it?
  • 02-08-2011 02:12 PM
    Westonci
    Are the new hairs from the HSC injections colored hair, for a person with greying hair?

    For example if a person has white hair (ie anderson cooper) will the new grown hairs from HSC injections be white or black?
  • 02-08-2011 04:23 PM
    CVAZBAR
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by gmonasco View Post
    You might find this system works best if you actually take the time to read and comprehend material prior to responding to it.

    Trust me, Iv'e read the material. What you wrote has been said a thousand times. You don't need to repeat it over and over. You want all the answers but the studies are just starting. Relax
  • 02-08-2011 05:24 PM
    Westonci
    Thank you for your response Dr. Ziering.

    I have a theoretical question. Lets just say a random billionaire from the middle east donated $250 million to Histogen.

    Would the time line then still be 2013-2014 for pan asia approval?

    Or would the extra funds mean that Histogen could exponentially speed up clinical trails?
  • 02-08-2011 05:54 PM
    gmonasco
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by CVAZBAR View Post
    Trust me, Iv'e read the material.

    Once again, you've demonstrated that you haven't bothered actually reading what you're responding to.
  • 02-09-2011 10:12 AM
    Supernova
    Hurray for another scam! That guy's talking out his ass. Histogen is just another product that's going to cost a good amount of money, and that company is going to make so much money off of false hopes. So many people are going to want it, and the day it comes out people are going to be in line for it. The company will make bank, hair loss sufferers will have hope for a week and be down another $50-$100 each. Another successful scam. He made no coherent statements that Histogen actually gives you noticeable (take note of those words) hair growth. Does it grow the hair I'm paying them money for? I'll believe it when I see it. And I'm not talking about clinical trials or "before and after" pictures from the company, no, those are always fixed. I'm not opening my wallet for these guys to just steal money out of it.
  • 02-09-2011 10:33 AM
    Gubter_87
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Supernova View Post
    Hurray for another scam! That guy's talking out his ass. Histogen is just another product that's going to cost a good amount of money, and that company is going to make so much money off of false hopes. So many people are going to want it, and the day it comes out people are going to be in line for it. The company will make bank, hair loss sufferers will have hope for a week and be down another $50-$100 each. Another successful scam. He made no coherent statements that Histogen actually gives you noticeable (take note of those words) hair growth. Does it grow the hair I'm paying them money for? I'll believe it when I see it. And I'm not talking about clinical trials or "before and after" pictures from the company, no, those are always fixed. I'm not opening my wallet for these guys to just steal money out of it.

    You're forgetting that if this makes it through trials it will be the third treatment ever approved by the FDA for treatment of hair loss.
    The general "scam" product that you are talking about does not go through the rigorous testing for efficiacy and safety that is mandatory when seeking approval for a potential medical treatment.

    You can't compare this to the other scam products out there - if this makes it through the trials it will definately be beneficial!
  • 02-09-2011 11:49 AM
    Westonci
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Supernova View Post
    Hurray for another scam! That guy's talking out his ass. Histogen is just another product that's going to cost a good amount of money, and that company is going to make so much money off of false hopes. So many people are going to want it, and the day it comes out people are going to be in line for it. The company will make bank, hair loss sufferers will have hope for a week and be down another $50-$100 each. Another successful scam. He made no coherent statements that Histogen actually gives you noticeable (take note of those words) hair growth. Does it grow the hair I'm paying them money for? I'll believe it when I see it. And I'm not talking about clinical trials or "before and after" pictures from the company, no, those are always fixed. I'm not opening my wallet for these guys to just steal money out of it.

    Your paranoid SUPERNOVA, Histogen is funded by Venture investors, and these people want to see results before they give histogen millions of dollars. Im sure that histogen has shown these people more than enough proof that HSC works.
  • 02-09-2011 02:31 PM
    CVAZBAR
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by gmonasco View Post
    Once again, you've demonstrated that you haven't bothered actually reading what you're responding to.

    Ok let me ask you a question. Im guessing you've followed the past Histogen interviews and are aware that the phase 1 and 2 trials are just starting. Im sure you know they already reported results from the pre trials, in which you can see pictures they posted. Knowing all this, what made you so disappointed about this last interview? What were you expecting to hear?
  • 02-09-2011 02:57 PM
    UK_
    I remember when Intercytex came out claiming their DP cells induced "significant hair growth" in 4 out of 5 patients, but they totally fell on their Phase II trials. I am thus highly anticipating the results of Histogen's Phase II, the primary issue here is how their research affirms the findings made earlier this year regarding the inactive (but present) stem cells in bald scalps.

    Also, if you look at their findings, the increases in terms of percentage gain (e.g. terminal hairs) are similar according to the dose of HSC that was applied, this is also promising; showing that there is an element of 'order' to the procedure and results that arrive from it.
  • 02-09-2011 06:50 PM
    reset
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Dr. Craig Ziering View Post
    Right now Singapore but possibly Korea as well.

    Thanks for answering my question. Don`t mind the negative posts. A lot of anger/frustration over losing hair sometimes translates to negative posts. I hope you`ll be able to keep us apprised of new developments.

    On a side note, Singapore has transformed itself as the leading bio-tech hub in Asia and among the top hubs across the entire globe. Seems no coincidence Histogen chose Singapore as a place to conduct trials. Some links for anyone that`s interested.

    http://www.massdevice.com/blogs/nik-...o-science-hubs

    http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stori...106583/1/.html

    http://www.outsourcing-pharma.com/Cl...linical-trials
  • 02-09-2011 07:28 PM
    blowmeup
    Great post reset! We’re all bitter about losing our hair, but I could never understand why some guys try to take it out on these forums. It only detracts from the point and it’s obnoxious.:mad:
  • 02-09-2011 09:15 PM
    Supernova
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gubter_87 View Post
    You're forgetting that if this makes it through trials it will be the third treatment ever approved by the FDA for treatment of hair loss.
    The general "scam" product that you are talking about does not go through the rigorous testing for efficiacy and safety that is mandatory when seeking approval for a potential medical treatment.

    You can't compare this to the other scam products out there - if this makes it through the trials it will definately be beneficial!

    Oh yeah? Well then how about Rogaine? That's "FDA Approved" and it's a scam. Yes I know, there a claims and reports of people re-growing hair from the use of Rogaine, but are you getting the hair you're paying for? Seriously, people spend over $500 a year on something that only gives them little to no more hair? I've never seen a real miracle story with Rogaine. But as far as Histogen goes, I don't know.. I think they only treatment for Male Pattern Baldness that will do anyone any good will be the cure. Meaning, when scientists find a way to awaken the stem cells in the scalp to re-grow follicles into new hairs. Histogen sounds like it's just going to be another stimulation, like the equivalent to taking certain multi-vitamins to promote hair-growth.
  • 02-10-2011 03:21 AM
    UK_
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Supernova View Post
    Oh yeah? Well then how about Rogaine? That's "FDA Approved" and it's a scam. Yes I know, there a claims and reports of people re-growing hair from the use of Rogaine, but are you getting the hair you're paying for? Seriously, people spend over $500 a year on something that only gives them little to no more hair? I've never seen a real miracle story with Rogaine. But as far as Histogen goes, I don't know.. I think they only treatment for Male Pattern Baldness that will do anyone any good will be the cure. Meaning, when scientists find a way to awaken the stem cells in the scalp to re-grow follicles into new hairs. Histogen sounds like it's just going to be another stimulation, like the equivalent to taking certain multi-vitamins to promote hair-growth.

    Histogen has promising Phase I results and an exciting factor was when Dr Ziering stated that the hair maintained/continued to grow even after a 2 year follow-up. This was after one injection of a very small amount of the HSC; the theory stacks up - they mimic what occurs during embryogenesis, we know wnt proteins are instrumental in signalling stem cells to perform certain actions.

    A scam is a type of deception, how many times have you heard companies tell you that Rogaine (1) may not work for all people (2) you will lose whatever you gain/keep after stopping usage etc - just because the drug is not as effective does not make it a scam. I highly anticipate Phase II results, this year will be make or break, literally.
  • 02-10-2011 03:53 AM
    RichardDawkins
    Let me put it this way Supernova.

    If Histogen is a scam (i really doubt it because they also have a lot of other succesfull things in their portfolio), a scam which stops your hairloss and also gains regrow on every NW scale in a significant way, like they show it.

    Well then iam very glad to fall for this scam. I really think you mistake Minoxil with cell treatment here.

    HSC works in another way then Minox, i think that even if Histogen is not permanently and you have to get another injection every 5 years or so, with further injections will come more of your hairs back.

    As Dr Ziering stated here, when some user asked a really good question about White and grey hair turn back to normal. You can see that HSC will turn back the clock for hairloss. Just accumulate how long (in years) it took for some people to turn their hair from lets say black to grey.

    And i think as a rule of thumb you can say that one round of injection will buy you exactly this time again.

    But maybe iam wrong and HSC is permanent. You know you can turn it as you will, a combination of lets say Acell/Plucking or Acell/FUE multiplication and Histogen is

    way way way better then using Minox and Propecia. OK not only way better, its the future.

    And yes its no coincident that they do their trials in asia. In fact a lot of other biotech companys do this as well.

    And iam really glad that in asian countrys its not like in our western cultures, i mean right now people are discussing about stem cells and stuff, which is stupid.

    I believe that every possible benefit in science should be used. Its like in this one episode of family guy. Where Peter got a stroke and then he went to a lab which said something like " Stem Cell Research" and he comes out of it normal and says something like " Wow and they really abandon this"

    I know not every stem cell is a stem cell but the essence here should be clear.
  • 02-10-2011 09:10 AM
    matlondon
    time to start saving, i know others that would like to grow hair but refuse to do ht. btw when would we see a UK or pan european release.
  • 02-10-2011 09:58 AM
    RichardDawkins
    i agree time to start saving and do some workout stuff
  • 02-10-2011 11:11 AM
    UK_
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by matlondon View Post
    time to start saving, i know others that would like to grow hair but refuse to do ht. btw when would we see a UK or pan european release.

    My personal 'opinion' here is that the UK will lag behind the States, as has been the general trend for several decades now, I dont really mean to have a dig at British companies but lets be honest - if it wasn't for the likes of Aderans, Follica and Histogen - what else would we have? Intercytex? lol.

    Here are the guys who sent shares rocking to $100 each after proclaiming their DP cells induced significant growth in 4 out of 5 patients; and in second clinical trials totally blew it landing investors in deep...

    This is why I cannot place enough emphasis of the coming 12 months regarding Histogens Phase II, if they can pull off what they did in Phase I again - it will be literally revolutionary.
  • 02-10-2011 12:27 PM
    CVAZBAR
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by UK_ View Post
    My personal 'opinion' here is that the UK will lag behind the States, as has been the general trend for several decades now, I dont really mean to have a dig at British companies but lets be honest - if it wasn't for the likes of Aderans, Follica and Histogen - what else would we have? Intercytex? lol.

    Here are the guys who sent shares rocking to $100 each after proclaiming their DP cells induced significant growth in 4 out of 5 patients; and in second clinical trials totally blew it landing investors in deep...

    This is why I cannot place enough emphasis of the coming 12 months regarding Histogens Phase II, if they can pull off what they did in Phase I again - it will be literally revolutionary.

    Not disagreeing with you but isn't Aderans the same idea as Intercytex? My question is that if Intercytex failed, why is Aderans still trying the same? Hopefully it's for a positive reason.
  • 02-10-2011 12:39 PM
    CVAZBAR
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by RichardDawkins View Post
    Let me put it this way Supernova.

    If Histogen is a scam (i really doubt it because they also have a lot of other succesfull things in their portfolio), a scam which stops your hairloss and also gains regrow on every NW scale in a significant way, like they show it.

    Well then iam very glad to fall for this scam. I really think you mistake Minoxil with cell treatment here.

    HSC works in another way then Minox, i think that even if Histogen is not permanently and you have to get another injection every 5 years or so, with further injections will come more of your hairs back.

    As Dr Ziering stated here, when some user asked a really good question about White and grey hair turn back to normal. You can see that HSC will turn back the clock for hairloss. Just accumulate how long (in years) it took for some people to turn their hair from lets say black to grey.

    And i think as a rule of thumb you can say that one round of injection will buy you exactly this time again.

    But maybe iam wrong and HSC is permanent. You know you can turn it as you will, a combination of lets say Acell/Plucking or Acell/FUE multiplication and Histogen is

    way way way better then using Minox and Propecia. OK not only way better, its the future.

    And yes its no coincident that they do their trials in asia. In fact a lot of other biotech companys do this as well.

    And iam really glad that in asian countrys its not like in our western cultures, i mean right now people are discussing about stem cells and stuff, which is stupid.

    I believe that every possible benefit in science should be used. Its like in this one episode of family guy. Where Peter got a stroke and then he went to a lab which said something like " Stem Cell Research" and he comes out of it normal and says something like " Wow and they really abandon this"

    I know not every stem cell is a stem cell but the essence here should be clear.

    Rich dawg, you hit it straight on. I think that truly is the only hope to actually have great hair again. Histogen most likely wont do it on its own but a combination of things. If Histogen can regrow some hair or prevent further thinning, than you can get transplants and maybe future plucking/no scar unlimited donor transplants. And if Aderans comes through, then forget it. 40's are going to be the new 20's hahaha. Also, kets take note that Hitzig said he was working on the STEM CELL from him extraction/PRP enhanced treatment. He has the idea that maybe these injections will be the ones to turn the cells to progenitor cells. If this works, then we won't even have to wait for Histogen. He said he was going to learn how to do the procedure in a couple weeks and would try it. We will find out this year how that works as well.
  • 02-10-2011 01:12 PM
    clee984
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by RichardDawkins View Post


    I believe that every possible benefit in science should be used. Its like in this one episode of family guy. Where Peter got a stroke and then he went to a lab which said something like " Stem Cell Research" and he comes out of it normal and says something like " Wow and they really abandon this"

    .

    There's a book called 'Ending Aging' by Aubrey De Grey (who you probably hang around with knowing the circles you move in, Dawkins) in which he gets magnificently indignant about how the Bush administration used 9/11 as an excuse to railroad stem cell research because of their own religious convictions. And he even states (whether this is true or not I don't know, I'm just taking his word for it), that they fall down by their own definition of what constitutes "life". These clumps of cells could never and would never become "alive". They would be disposed of anyway, whether they were experimented with or not. Tbh, I didn't understand a lot of the science, but I like him, despite the man clearly being mentally ill. Interesting book.
  • 02-10-2011 01:40 PM
    Manwhore
    Is the interview with doc z able to be heard? If so, how do I get it to play? Thanks.

» IAHRS

hair transplant surgeons

» The Bald Truth

» Recent Threads

1800 graft repair case results by Dr. Lindsey
Yesterday 08:38 AM
Last Post By Dr. Lindsey
Yesterday 08:38 AM
Navigating the German Job Market as a Kenyan Citizen
11-04-2023 06:31 AM
Last Post By Keegan212
Yesterday 03:51 AM
DR HAKAN DOGANAY/ 4500 GRAFTS / Implanter Pen+FUE
03-26-2024 04:15 PM
Last Post By Hakan Doganay, MD
03-26-2024 04:15 PM
The Mane Event for Thursday, June 15th, 2023
06-15-2023 02:59 PM
Last Post By gisecit34
03-26-2024 08:05 AM