Histogen Update - Spencer Kobren Speaks With Dr. Craig L. Ziering

i just wish all these companies who are doing the same thing would join forces and get a move on this.. as competition may only speed things up to get there before each other maybe causing or missing some important factors when rushing.

Its like government why is there always many sides and one leader.. can they not just all work together and bloody use some team work?

At this point I believe that Aderans is the leader in this race. They keep their research fairly quiet unless they have something concrete to announce. They have significantly more revenue to invest in the research, and they are already in phase II trials.
Why Histogen talks about phase II trials which they continually postpone is beyond me. They say that they have gotten 10 million dollars in investments but if the product is so good I would think that venture capitalists would be falling over themselves to invest.
They did a pilot study with 25 subjects yet they have only shown one photo of hair growth in a real headshot (not those magnified pictures of small areas) and haven't bothered to explain it in detail on any forum.
I wish they would at least be open and honest to the millions of perspective customers who have waited years for a product like the one they supposedly have.
Just my two cents.

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Originally Posted by andycanon

Its like government why is there always many sides and one leader.. can they not just all work together and bloody use some team work?

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Because, unfortunately, the driving force in such research is a profit motive rather than the public good, and joining forces to work together is not conducive to maximizing profit.

It might be a good thing, though: if such research depended upon appeals to the public good for its funding, it might be an even much lower priority than it is now.

Sad to say, if pattern baldness affected little girls, there'd likely be yearly telethons raising millions and millions of research dollars to cure it.

I dont know who the eader is but all i can say is its not 5 to 10 years anymore. Also if you look from different angles here, well its obvious that something is cooking big time.

But one thing which really makes my piss boil is, that we could already had things fixed right now if the research would have gone in the right direction 10 or more years ago :-)

I bet if did would have started 10 years ago in the right direction, most of the younger hairloss sufferers would never experience hairloss in a dramatic way.

But as they always say better late then never, right. Also even if there are many negativ voices who say stuff like "he pulls hot air out of his ass" i can only respond " Well even in the biggest fart of hot air, there is always one single molecule which smells like roses".

It doesnt matter if someone keeps his informations close or someone presenting them to the public because guess what, the internet never forgets anything and i highly doubt that Dr Ziering, Histogen or whoever will come to the BaldTruth radio show only to get his reputation ass handed afterwards.

I think the fact that some doctors are trying new ways is, that the hairloss community gets more and more demanding and educated and also more and more repair cases come up :-( so its only natural to find something to please people and prepare yourself for the future.

In the short run (2years or so) my bet is on Acell plucking but the long run is on stuff like Histogen. The only thing i hope is that Histogens injection will really work more then just temporary PRP. A sure fire proof for the long run is the effect such an injection has on the donor area. If the hair got healthier etc then you have a winner.

Anyways i hope we get some infos in around 4 weeks. Btw guys till Histogen comes to market you should get your surgeons to establish Acell, because lets face it, the majority of hairloss sufferers will need a hair transplant even with fully working histogen or aderans on the market.

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Originally Posted by RichardDawkins

I dont know who the eader is but all i can say is its not 5 to 10 years anymore. Also if you look from different angles here, well its obvious that something is cooking big time.

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I'd say that the tools for attacking the problem may finally be at hand, but how long it will take to use them to fashion a workable solution is up in the air.

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i highly doubt that Dr Ziering, Histogen or whoever will come to the BaldTruth radio show only to get his reputation ass handed afterwards.

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Maybe, but you can say a lot without actually saying much of anything. Most of the "official" talk about HSC so far has been along the lines of: "We did a preliminary test on a small group of subjects, and the results bring up more questions than anything else."

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Originally Posted by RichardDawkins

the majority of hairloss sufferers will need a hair transplant even with fully working histogen or aderans on the market.

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Why is that?

Thats a simple thing nobody actually adresses, people will get addicted to hair at a certain point. Let me put it this way

If Histogen would be on the market and your hairloss stops or is resetted and there is a hairtransplantation technique which guarantees unlimited donor.

Would you or wouldnt you get as much hair as possible even if you would look like Eddie Munster? Just answer yourself the question honestly.

And as much as i see potential in Histogen i dont know if you could get back full density so a hair transplant is then your weapon of choice even if you only fill in your sides.

I can tell you today, many men will be addicted to hairtransplants in the really near future, all i can say about me is, i hope i wont get addicted but i cant guarantee it myself and also i hope it wont bring me to the point where i begin to getting insane about myself and only love me.

Right now some may find this stupid or unrealistic but believe me with super technologies at hand its an easy thing to get addicted to something.

Cause face it, if the plucking technique is getting better and better you actually got "infinite" possibilities to do anything with your hair.

Speaking about me, iam that stupid iam actually savong money right now to get it done in the near future when more and more results, positive nature, are in.

And thats from someone who started like this " Uhhh hair transplant that sounds cool they only cut out some back of the head and then my headisfull of hear sure deal" yep that was me thank Vishnu i found messages boards.

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Originally Posted by RichardDawkins

If Histogen would be on the market and your hairloss stops or is resetted and there is a hairtransplantation technique which guarantees unlimited donor. Would you or wouldnt you get as much hair as possible even if you would look like Eddie Munster? Just answer yourself the question honestly.

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I'd have my hair restored to the point that I was satisfied and comfortable with its look, and then I'd move on. But just as some people become addicted to other forms of cosmetic surgery, I'm sure some might become addicted to hair transplantation if the donor supply were unlimited.

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Originally Posted by LarryDavid

Why is [it that the majority of hairloss sufferers will need a hair transplant even with fully working histogen or aderans on the market]?

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Presumably because either might be able to increase the amount of hair on one's head, but not fully enough to create a desired cosmetic appearance (and thus would still need to be supplemented by hair transplants in some cases).

gmonasco you are right, this can be the case.

Also even if Histogen and Ari will work 120% i wouldnt rule out hair transplants. Its better to be safe then sorry.

Iam only realistic here, Histogen will have its unbattled and unreached high points when it comes to vertex restoration because i see the head as a two zone problem.

Zone 1 : Frontal area and the most important area can be restored with relatively less grafts

Zone 2 : Vertex area and the unbeaten source of everyones nightmare and also the Grafts grave.
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With working Histogen and working Acell Plucking i would do the following.

1) Create and fully restore my frontal area over the point of "Just an illusion" with Acell plucking

2) use Histogen for the rest

3) wait some years and then got the finishing touch if needed (at this point i hope hair transplant surgeons have figured out how to do FUE-multiplication :-)

4) Get addicted because i know myself ;-)

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Anyway i think its very good to get positive updates because it helps a lot of hairloss sufferers

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Oh and come to think of it. maybe some people think iam to overly optimistic. They may be right but let me put it this way

1) Even some docs have seen donor regrowth after FUE without Acell, thats a fact we all know.

So the simple question here is Why not go from a one time "accident" to a sure fire method? You get my drift here

With Acell the chances are getting to our favor, or are they not? Just do it, seat yourself for 5 minutes and think about this case, just think about it :-)

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Originally Posted by RichardDawkins

gmonasco you are right, this can be the case.

Also even if Histogen and Ari will work 120% i wouldnt rule out hair transplants. Its better to be safe then sorry.

Iam only realistic here, Histogen will have its unbattled and unreached high points when it comes to vertex restoration because i see the head as a two zone problem.

Zone 1 : Frontal area and the most important area can be restored with relatively less grafts

Zone 2 : Vertex area and the unbeaten source of everyones nightmare and also the Grafts grave.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

With working Histogen and working Acell Plucking i would do the following.

1) Create and fully restore my frontal area over the point of "Just an illusion" with Acell plucking

2) use Histogen for the rest

3) wait some years and then got the finishing touch if needed (at this point i hope hair transplant surgeons have figured out how to do FUE-multiplication :-)

4) Get addicted because i know myself ;-)

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Anyway i think its very good to get positive updates because it helps a lot of hairloss sufferers

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Oh and come to think of it. maybe some people think iam to overly optimistic. They may be right but let me put it this way

1) Even some docs have seen donor regrowth after FUE without Acell, thats a fact we all know.

So the simple question here is Why not go from a one time "accident" to a sure fire method? You get my drift here

With Acell the chances are getting to our favor, or are they not? Just do it, seat yourself for 5 minutes and think about this case, just think about it :-)

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HAHA I want to think like you but I cant. I need to see it to believe it. I wish i could go to the future just to get the answer and then come back relaxed haha. Unless I find out the cure wont come till 20 years from now. ****!! Hopefully its 5 years TOPS.

Sometimes you have to think out of the box ;-) i say lets the next 4 to 5 weeks (yes 5 weeks cause timelines are ment to be broken)

But seriously Grafts grow back sometimes, ask any ht doc who performs FUE.

I am very pleased to hear from Dr Ziering that Histogen have already commenced their initial exploratory studies (Phase I/II), I highly anticipate the results, as stated we have seen over the past few decades companies come and go with promise after promise, but in this respect I can atleast believe that the method Histogen adopts has shown to induce follicular neogenesis in animals - it just needed to be proven in humans aswel, which is where we are today.

I certainly agree that there could be a conflation of HSC and HT, rebuilding the frontal hairline may be better accomplished with a HT combined with Acell/plucking technique and HSC to complement the procedure to aid the growth in the extracted follicular units. I am sure the upcoming trials will aid in the answering of any further questions, one of which being whether the HSC could be applied in a topical format. Histogen has certainly battled through some tough times, and I truly wish them all the best of support in all of their research areas.

Agree, thats actually a good plan with the maximum effect you can have :)

And if you feel uncomfortable and your hairloss is on hold later on you could go for a FUE if its needed.

But i dont know why, but i think Histogen could get us back our original density i cant really say why i believe this but its a gutfeeling very strange

[QUOTE=Dr. Craig Ziering;22585]I must state that I dont run Histogen but I am an advisor for them.
My suggestion would be to administer HSC by independent hair restoration surgeons who are trained in its application and are experienced in the field so we can closely monitor treatment and response .

Doc Z[/QUO
TE]

Dr. Zering,
I'm not sure you can answer these questions perhaps Gail Naughton would have a better perspective on these, but since you seem to be the only representative of the Company speaking publicly right now I will pose them to you.
Don't you think there may be some trepidation for a lot of perspective patients from the west when having to travel to the far east to have the procedure done.
Or does Histogen believe that people would take a giant leap and go to a country where they are unfamiliar with the language, medical practices, and legal system to get their hair back.
Which brings to mind another question. Is this being promoted more heavily in the countries where the trials are being done.
These issues are the reason I asked in my earlier post if it would be performed under a clinic owned and sanction by Histogen.

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Originally Posted by mlao

Don't you think there may be some trepidation for a lot of perspective patients from the west when having to travel to the far east to have the procedure done.

Or does Histogen believe that people would take a giant leap and go to a country where they are unfamiliar with the language, medical practices, and legal system to get their hair back.

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I can't speak for Dr. Ziering, of course, but the point is that the length of the approval process in Asian countries is significantly shorter than in North America, and there's not much Histogen can do about that fact. So, even though some patients may have trepidation about traveling to Asia for such a procedure, it's a better option than having no choice at all. Would anyone be better served if Histogen refrained from making their product available anywhere in the world until it had secured U.S. regulatory approval?

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Originally Posted by gmonasco

I can't speak for Dr. Ziering, of course, but the point is that the length of the approval process in Asian countries is significantly shorter than in North America, and there's not much Histogen can do about that fact. So, even though some patients may have trepidation about traveling to Asia for such a procedure, it's a better option than having no choice at all. Would anyone be better served if Histogen refrained from making their product available anywhere in the world until it had secured U.S. regulatory approval?

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I am not suggesting that they wait until they receive U.S. approval.
I am saying that if a they had a Histogen owned and operated clinic that could deal with the intricacies of a large western cliental,
(language, travel, lodging, etc..) it would be to their benefit.
We all want to get our hair back but how many times have you read posts by people who impulsively got some treatment (PRP, Acell, transplant) from a practitioner who they feel did not fully inform them of the possible problems with the procedure.
Regardless of what most of us think about the Aderans/Bosley connection their network is a far better model to bring the therapy to a waiting public.

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Originally Posted by mlao

I am saying that if a they had a Histogen owned and operated clinic that could deal with the intricacies of a large western cliental (language, travel, lodging, etc..) it would be to their benefit.

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It might be more to their benefit (and ours) if they invested their time, money, and resources in continuing development of the product and securing approval for it in western countries rather than trying to set up and operate clinics on the other side of the globe.

Hey Doc Z, when I get back home to LA for the summer... I'd be MORE than happy to have you give me as many HSC treatments as you'd like. =)

-Max

PS- Seriously. haha

All the best hair transplant clinics in the world take the things I spoke about into account.
How can we be sure a doctor from a different culture no matter how well they are trained in western medicine and practices will hold themselves culpable to the patient.
Everyone on this site is jumping for joy over the pronouncements Histogen has been making, even with almost no photographic evidence to back it up.
I dare say that tomorrow if it was available in Chernobyl there would probably be plane loads of guys flying out to get the injections.
I really want this to work and make no mistake I could and would gladly fly to Asia to have it done. I just want to know that when it comes to market there is a health practitioner and company who will stand behind the product and know how to properly advise the patients.

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Originally Posted by Dr. Craig Ziering

Anyone administering the treatment would be trained and certified by the company . My suggestion to the company was to use only ISHRS surgeons as the initial pool of doctors to train.
Please note though that the plan would be to treat patients locally in the United States and Europe as well.

Doc Z

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Thanks Dr. Zering I think you see my point with this.
It would be great if some doctors in Asia were ISHRS certified but that's
up to Spencer not you. Thanks again for the response.

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Originally Posted by Dr. Craig Ziering

For clarification these are two different organizations....
ISHRS and IAHRS(Spencer's)

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I stand corrected.

Thanks for asking the questions Dr Z

Hello Dr. Ziering I have a question about the timeframe in the future.

Hopefully Histogen HSC comes to market in 2013-2014 however the exact date is anyones guess at this time.

However When do you think Histogen will set a diffinitve date? 6 months before release? 1 year before release?

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Originally Posted by Dr. Craig Ziering

It is my pleasure . I want the same things that most of you want as well.

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Dr Ziering I am not sure how much data you have on how the body receives, processes then extracts the wnt 7a, but I would be very greatful if you could help me answer the following questions:

Regarding the mechanism of the wnt 7a, I understand that it is a signalling protein, but how does it exactly work to keep the hair stimulated for so long? Does the wnt 7a stay within the hair follicle constantly signalling hair growth? Or does it stimulate ("wake up") the 'dormant' cells in the scalp and is then extracted/metabolised by the body? If the latter is true, then I guess the safety of the product is greatly enhanced right?

Thanks.

Would these injections grow hair in a donor scar after an FUT strip surgery?

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Originally Posted by Dr. Craig Ziering

For clarification these are two different organizations....
ISHRS and IAHRS(Spencer's)

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Too bad there are no IAHRS doctors in Asia. I would be a little nervous going to a doctor who is not endorsed by Kobren, but I guess this not surgery:) Dr. Ziering will these doctors be trained by you?

Is Histogen seeking participants for its H.S.C. study?

Thanks.

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Originally Posted by HelpROGER

Too bad there are no IAHRS doctors in Asia. I would be a little nervous going to a doctor who is not endorsed by Kobren, but I guess this not surgery:) Dr. Ziering will these doctors be trained by you?

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Regarding administration of the HSC... Perhaps they may develop a topical solution (I doubt it however), in the research released at the beginning of January by University of P the issue highlighted the issue as a problem of 'faulty stem cells'. We can be exposed to androgens for decades before we even start going bald; the issue is with the 'factory' that is the stem cells, we just need a compound to fire up the stem cells (easier said than done), and get the factory stem cells to start churning out DP/PROTG cells again producing healthy hair.

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Originally Posted by Dr. Craig Ziering

No not at this time .

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Is there any way by which to be notified when and if Histogen is seeking subjects for an upcoming clinical trial of H.S.C.?

Thank you.

I have a few questions for you Dr. Ziering. First off, do you believe with confidence that HSC has the capability of restoring a full head of hair to original or at least close to original density? Second, if the results of the original trails of HSC showing thicker hairs and a higher hair count were a result of restoring "dormant" follicles do you believe a transplant would impact the dormant follicles of the scalp and therefore hurt HSC's ability to work efficiently? Last, will there be a trail where you would consider including trailists who have taken propecia?

Thank you so much for taking an active stance on this forum, it means a lot to me and I would imagine to a lot of other users as well.

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Originally Posted by Dr. Craig Ziering

I can let Spencer know.

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Yes, please; thank you. If you need any information from me to forward, for this purpose, please just let me know.

Thanks again, Dr. Ziering.

Hello!!
I have a question for you Dr. Ziering.
Are you going to increas together dosage of HSC and number of injections, or just one thing from that.

Acell may be acting in a similar fashion to the components of the HSC that directly create angiogenesis, instead of using the VEGF etc could the component to promote the angiogenesis actually be Acell?

i.e. Acell+WNT7A+PRP

Wowo you go full frontal you wanna be Elvis or something :-)

Hell Dr Ziering.

First thank-you for spending so much time answering all of the questions you receive on here.

I have a question which I hope you can answer. Do you know what area was being measured in Histogens first trial? It had statistics of an increase of 84 hairs after 1 year on patients who got the hsc injections!

I am trying to find over what area/2 that data is about. 2 cm2 1 inch/2 ??? etc http://www.histogen.com/aboutus/news_events.htm (about 1/5 down the page is what I refer to)

also if you are allowed or feel confident. how many hairs per cm/2 Histogen may be able to produce when all is said and done?

I dont expect it to be able to recreate original density but do you think 50 new hairs/cm2 is in the ballpark??

Thank you Dr. Ziering

thank you for posting the area in which the data was regarding :P

im new, so does that mean histogen was able to produce roughly 56 NEW hairs per cm/2?

If so that is extraordinary and I cant wait to see what happens with the next set of trials results. Even if 56 new hairs/cm2 is the max number that this hsc formula is ever able to produce imo that is still such a breakthrough. If those numbers can be reproduced consistently over a larger area it would by far be the best treatment ever available :)

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Originally Posted by Dr. Craig Ziering

The area measured is 1.47 cm2

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This is why im so excited about HSC - nothing has ever, proven to produce so much hair in such a small area, just imagine if this compound is applied to say a larger sq area of the scalp.

Even right at this point they could easily put it on the market, thats really something.

My prediction or hopes are, if it can produce this yield right in this early tests, it should be possible to reverse the hair status to at least 90% or your original density.

But i dont know and i dont think it will work on extensive scar tissue. But if it works i say Respect

Dr. Ziering,
regarding trials for women, will the treatment be based on the same principles as for men?
Will you be waiting for men trials to end first or?
If trials for men finish with good results, why women couldn't take the same treatment (as is the case with Rogaine 5%)?
More and more women have problems with hair loss, not to mention children. It's even more devastating. So we'd also like the treatment the soonest possible.
Thank you