Gho HST regrowth pics!

[splitting hairs]

Check this out, scroll down and it shows hairs regrowing from the donor extractions:

www.baldnessbattlers.com/JBInterviewGho.htm

[NeedHairASAP]

Check this out, scroll down and it shows hairs regrowing from the donor extractions:

www.baldnessbattlers.com/JBInterviewGho.htm



old news


nobody will believe this anyway. Gho doesn't have enough "evidence"

[damielmillo]

Jeje, there are 2 cases in haarweb forum that i am following.
One guy had 1403 grafts and his donor looks great.
http://www.haarweb.nl/forum/showthread.php?t=29712&page=3

Another guy has 1825 grafts http://www.haarweb.nl/forum/showthread.php?t=29775
and also the donor looks Ok...

So we must to wait some time but it looks promising.

[Winston]

Sadly, Gho has been selling empty promises for years. Don't you think that it would be in a hair transplant surgeon’s best interest to offer this technique if it really worked? They would have unlimited business.

[NeedHairASAP]

Sadly, Gho has been selling empty promises for years. Don't you think that it would be in a hair transplant surgeon’s best interest to offer this technique if it really worked? They would have unlimited business.

I've explained this before. look at the history of RCA, radio, and television...

RCA had a TV in the 1930s, but they were still selling shitloads of radios. They kept the TV under wraps until the mid 1940s.


If you have invested a ton in your HT business and business is fine, why would you bother making the expensive transfer? only to pay Gho franchise fees/ take time off to pay 50k for classes?



if surgeons always tried to offer the best techniques, we'd have seen FUE take hold faster than it did. They called FUE bullshit for many many years.

[NeedHairASAP]

Jeje, there are 2 cases in haarweb forum that i am following.
One guy had 1403 grafts and his donor looks great.
http://www.haarweb.nl/forum/showthread.php?t=29712&page=3

Another guy has 1825 grafts http://www.haarweb.nl/forum/showthread.php?t=29775
and also the donor looks Ok...

So we must to wait some time but it looks promising.



what day is the donor picture from the 1403 guy?

[damielmillo]

Pls translate.
He had the procedure at January 2 and the donor pictures and receipt are on January 16 so there is 2 weeks.
What do you think about the pictures?

[NeedHairASAP]

Pls translate.
He had the procedure at January 2 and the donor pictures and receipt are on January 16 so there is 2 weeks.
What do you think about the pictures?

i looked a the wrong picture. The one bveroti posted, you can see depleted donor

[mattj]

The donor area after FUE can look very pristine after 2 weeks even without any extra technology to help. Especially with low numbers of grafts.

I don't want to be negative as I'd love for HT surgery results to be improved by any new technological breakthrough, but I'm yet to see a true breakthrough. If one of these new treatments really did deliver results then believe me, surgeons would be very keen to incorporate it into their surgery. This technology isn't exclusive to any one doctor and other surgeons don't need to pay a large fee to make use of it. If it's truly worthwhile then they will quickly learn to utilize it for themselves. Trust me, top HT surgeons do have their eyes on the cutting edge of technology, but it's not always worthwhile to jump on the bandwagon when something new comes along.

[NeedHairASAP]

The donor area after FUE can look very pristine after 2 weeks even without any extra technology to help. Especially with low numbers of grafts.

I don't want to be negative as I'd love for HT surgery results to be improved by any new technological breakthrough, but I'm yet to see a true breakthrough. If one of these new treatments really did deliver results then believe me, surgeons would be very keen to incorporate it into their surgery. This technology isn't exclusive to any one doctor and other surgeons don't need to pay a large fee to make use of it. If it's truly worthwhile then they will quickly learn to utilize it for themselves. Trust me, top HT surgeons do have their eyes on the cutting edge of technology, but it's not always worthwhile to jump on the bandwagon when something new comes along.


You're saying:

Gho doesn't work, thusly surgeons aren't using it


how do you explain regrowth shown by forum users, and in peer reviewed journals?


I think Gho is using smaller needles than anyone else, and that he is consistently getting regrowth. Is he not? and if he is, then wouldn't that be what you call "truly worthwhile"? and if its truly worthwhile, then why haven't we seen one doctor "quickly learn to utilize it for themselves"? Nothing you say adds up.

Either Gho is lieing, or you are.... and you don't have peer reviewed journals or forum posters pictures backing up your claims. Gho does.





the FUE donor can look good after two weeks, but can you see hairs sprouting from the donor scars? NOPE.

FUE donor can also (and more often than not does) look bad after two weeks-- see bveroti's post in the first link to the dutch forum... its moth eaten....

[Follicle Death Row]

I've still seen no photos that prove that the donor is regenerating.

[NeedHairASAP]

I've still seen no photos that prove that the donor is regenerating.

have you looked at the journals? they have multiple photos of Donor scars with hairs sprouting. So, unless you believe they were photoshopped.....



Also, GC has a close up photo where you can easily see hairs sprouting from the red donor scars. Perhaps he can repost that photo? I will try to find which thread, and which forum it was on, but do not know off the top of my head.

However, I am not making it up, GC at one point posted a photo that clearly showed hairs sprouting from donor scars--- which immediately led to people saying, "okay, something is sprouting", but they then started to push the "he's just splitting hairs theory".... either way..... its undoubtable that something is regenerating in the scars--- GC's photos prove that Gho's photos were not photoshopped

[NeedHairASAP]

I've still seen no photos that prove that the donor is regenerating.



http://www.hasci.com/uploads/downloads/dad01225-0ceb-4a30-90c4-771ed900f25aHSI%20-%20Artikel_Gho%20Neumann.pdf

see above link-- top of page 8


and


http://www.hasci.com/uploads/downloads/a2d32e22-c363-4e17-b345-69625dbfcc3dNTVG.Androgenetische%20Alopecia.27feb1 1.pdf

see above link--- bottom of page 4


OK, so we see that Gho has some photos of donor scar holes with hairs growing out. But what if he photoshopped?


well, we have an independent forum user who, with amateur photography, seem to capture this same phenomena of hair growing out of donor scars


http://www.fileden.com/files/2011/9/20/3198745//week1donor%20010.jpg

see above link, zoom in to the top (semi-right side) corner





Seeing that Gho has multiple journal articles with macro photography showing hairs sprouting from donor scars AND gc seems to be showing the same thing...


I'd say its safe to say that something is growing out of these scars--- which in every other operation has NOTHING growing out of them...




PS- the guy Gho worked with on the journal articles is a highly regarded researcher in Europe...


basically guys, all signs point to Gho not lying, or splitting hairs.
Instead, it points to people and doctors like Mattj being dishonest about how markets work.

[Follicle Death Row]

I've seen all those photos before and I want to believe it works but I'm still not convinced. Sure I've seen singles growing out of extraction marks but what if you take 2 hairs from a follicular unit and leave 1. Man I hope he's not splitting hairs but I guess I'll be convinced if I see some great results.

[clandestine]

Question: Consider Gho is splitting hairs, rather than duplicating.
Would this be more or less favourable than a typical FUE?

If the effect remains that one hair becomes two and there is no way of discerning either way (cosmetically speaking), whether being 'split' or 'duplicated', what's the big deal?

Perhaps I'm not understanding correctly, sorry if my question ended up a little confusing. I'm not very well versed in the science behind all this.

[Follicle Death Row]

Question: Consider Gho is splitting hairs, rather than duplicating.
Would this be more or less favourable than a typical FUE?

If the effect remains that one hair becomes two and there is no way of discerning either way (cosmetically speaking), whether being 'split' or 'duplicated', what's the big deal?

Perhaps I'm not understanding correctly, sorry if my question ended up a little confusing. I'm not very well versed in the science behind all this.

You missed the important point here; that of multiplication. The problem is most of us do not have as much donor as we would like. If Gho is multiplying, he can for example take let's say 1000 3 haired follicular units and transplant them to the top of the head while they grow back in the donor. That would mean you have 1000 new grafts on top of your head or 3000 new hairs with all 1000 grafts and 3000 hairs growing back in the donor or close to, say 90%. That's something out of nothing effectively and sounds amazing.

The real concern here (one pointed out even by HT surgeons) is that Gho may be merely transecting or splitting hair follicles. Let's say you use small needles and split 1000 separate 3 haired follicular units and take 500 1s and 500 2s and transplant them. You've effectively moved 1000 grafts and or 1500 hairs. In the donor 500 2 hair FUs or left and 500 1 haired FUs. Therefore it is just follicle splitting and no new hair is created and the donor is depleted yet looking at the donor there is no visible scarring or bare spots as there is still hair there just thinned out. The unsuspecting patient could never say hey you split a 3 haired FU here and put 2 hairs up on the top of my head and left one here.

If he really is regenerating great. If not, your donor will be depleted and you will have a finite amount of donor still. Food for thought.

I bet you will never see a greater than 10,000 HST case. Dr. Feriduni has done 10,000+ FUE as has Dr. Jose Lorenzo so some people have that much donor available. Of course if Gho comes out with a 15,000 HST case then you can assume it's for real.

[Conpecia]

You missed the important point here; that of multiplication. The problem is most of us do not have as much donor as we would like. If Gho is multiplying, he can for example take let's say 1000 3 haired follicular units and transplant them to the top of the head while they grow back in the donor. That would mean you have 1000 new grafts on top of your head or 3000 new hairs with all 1000 grafts and 3000 hairs growing back in the donor or close to, say 90%. That's something out of nothing effectively and sounds amazing.

The real concern here (one pointed out even by HT surgeons) is that Gho may be merely transecting or splitting hair follicles. Let's say you use small needles and split 1000 separate 3 haired follicular units and take 500 1s and 500 2s and transplant them. You've effectively moved 1000 grafts and or 1500 hairs. In the donor 500 2 hair FUs or left and 500 1 haired FUs. Therefore it is just follicle splitting and no new hair is created and the donor is depleted yet looking at the donor there is no visible scarring or bare spots as there is still hair there just thinned out. The unsuspecting patient could never say hey you split a 3 haired FU here and put 2 hairs up on the top of my head and left one here.

If he really is regenerating great. If not, your donor will be depleted and you will have a finite amount of donor still. Food for thought.

I bet you will never see a greater than 10,000 HST case. Dr. Feriduni has done 10,000+ FUE as has Dr. Jose Lorenzo so some people have that much donor available. Of course if Gho comes out with a 15,000 HST case then you can assume it's for real.

This is a little tangential, but what makes a good donor region? Is it simply thickness of hair? Or is it the type of hair as well? I have insanely thick hair in the back of my head, to the distress of every barber I've ever had, but it's essentially straight hair, a little wave when it gets longer but not curly or coarse. What's the optimal hair type? Do height and head size come into play?

[Follicle Death Row]

This is a little tangential, but what makes a good donor region? Is it simply thickness of hair? Or is it the type of hair as well? I have insanely thick hair in the back of my head, to the distress of every barber I've ever had, but it's essentially straight hair, a little wave when it gets longer but not curly or coarse. What's the optimal hair type? Do height and head size come into play?

High donor density for starters; as in greater than say 85 or 90 FU/cm2. Secondy no family history of norwood 7 would be good as would a high proportion of 2 hair and 3 hair follicular units. Even for advanced stages of baldness the universal donor zone maybe 7.5cm in height.

Straight hair is ideal for FUE extraction. As far as I believe black/dark brown straight hair tends to be the easiest to extract safely. Furthermore thicker hair shaft diameter is better for creating volume and the appearance of density so that must also contribute to good donor.

Also the dimensions of the head come into play somewhat. Large heads tend to yield more donor but then people tend to have to cover a bigger area of scalp when they bald also. However some people have great height in their donor zone due to the shape of the back of their head. See a guy called Sean who got 3000+ FUE with Dr. Rahal.

Disregarding cost, for some people with such a head of hair, it's not an exaggeration to say that even heading towards norwood 6 they may have a donor density of 95FU/cm2 and an area of 8cm x 32cm (256cm2). This would give a total of 24320 follicles in the donor zone. It may be possible over multiple procedures to extract 35% and this would therefore allow 8512 FU to be transplanted! Then consider again that some people may have more than the average 2.2 hairs per follicular unit at around 2.5 and you're looking at a big number of hairs.

However it make get better still for many that have favourable characteristics for FUE (not that I'm championing FUE as FUT yiled tends to be a little better in general) as the first 3000 grafts can be cherry picked for the best multiple haired FUs. Therefore they could be looking a (3000x3)+(5500x2.5) total of 22750 hairs transplanted.

Of course the worry with FUE may be that in trying to extract such great numbers the doctor may stray north of the safe zone where the crown can dip low. If a doctor is going aggressive in this regard and the patient is fully informed, I could only condone this hair going into the very centre of the crown so that if it did succumb to DHT down the line it would fall out from the whirl and just leave a small bald spot.

Hope that helps somewhat. Bear in mind that (imo at least) there's probably less than 10 FUE docs that are up to the task.

[Conpecia]

High donor density for starters; as in greater than say 85 or 90 FU/cm2. Secondy no family history of norwood 7 would be good as would a high proportion of 2 hair and 3 hair follicular units. Even for advanced stages of baldness the universal donor zone maybe 7.5cm in height.

Straight hair is ideal for FUE extraction. As far as I believe black/dark brown straight hair tends to be the easiest to extract safely. Furthermore thicker hair shaft diameter is better for creating volume and the appearance of density so that must also contribute to good donor.

Also the dimensions of the head come into play somewhat. Large heads tend to yield more donor but then people tend to have to cover a bigger area of scalp when they bald also. However some people have great height in their donor zone due to the shape of the back of their head. See a guy called Sean who got 3000+ FUE with Dr. Rahal.

Disregarding cost, for some people with such a head of hair, it's not an exaggeration to say that even heading towards norwood 6 they may have a donor density of 95FU/cm2 and an area of 8cm x 32cm (256cm2). This would give a total of 24320 follicles in the donor zone. It may be possible over multiple procedures to extract 35% and this would therefore allow 8512 FU to be transplanted! Then consider again that some people may have more than the average 2.2 hairs per follicular unit at around 2.5 and you're looking at a big number of hairs.

However it make get better still for many that have favourable characteristics for FUE (not that I'm championing FUE as FUT yiled tends to be a little better in general) as the first 3000 grafts can be cherry picked for the best multiple haired FUs. Therefore they could be looking a (3000x3)+(5500x2.5) total of 22750 hairs transplanted.

Of course the worry with FUE may be that in trying to extract such great numbers the doctor may stray north of the safe zone where the crown can dip low. If a doctor is going aggressive in this regard and the patient is fully informed, I could only condone this hair going into the very centre of the crown so that if it did succumb to DHT down the line it would fall out from the whirl and just leave a small bald spot.

Hope that helps somewhat. Bear in mind that (imo at least) there's probably less than 10 FUE docs that are up to the task.

Wow, thanks man. Lots of good info here. It seems off the cuff that I may be a solid candidate for FUE, which is a good thing I suppose, though I'm right in that age group and balding "speed" where one has to consider simply waiting until 2015 or 16 to see what the new treatments bring to the table, if anything. Your last sentence perks my curiosity: is it a matter of technique or a matter of ethics?

[matlondon]

cant seem to open page 2 of this thread.

[Follicle Death Row]

Wow, thanks man. Lots of good info here. It seems off the cuff that I may be a solid candidate for FUE, which is a good thing I suppose, though I'm right in that age group and balding "speed" where one has to consider simply waiting until 2015 or 16 to see what the new treatments bring to the table, if anything. Your last sentence perks my curiosity: is it a matter of technique or a matter of ethics?

Both really. There once was a doc that was great with strip then when FUE came along he saw the potential $$$ and he charged like 3 times as much per graft and lashed in 80FU/cm2 hairlines and 3000+ megasessions into 50cm2 of scalp of young 20 something year olds. Results were hit and miss. When it worked he hit one out of the park and the result looked amazing but the patients would have to be eating propecia by the bucket load and hoping hairloss didn't progress too far as the donor reserves had depleted. When it didn't work, the results were awful.

Then there was a company that used an implanter pen to do massive FUE sessions in one day. Results were awful. I've only seen one doc who mastered the Choi implanter pen.

I don't want to go mentioning names but a quick search will unearth these guys.

[Follicle Death Row]

Also, no harm in waiting it out at least until the end of phase 2 for the likes of Aderans and Replicel to see where they're at. They should be wrapping those up next year (well maybe 2014 for Replicel).

[NeedHairASAP]

when you pluck a hair, it grows back. This is because the cells around the bottom and sides stay in the skin. These are the cells that Gho targets some of.


Personally, I think it would be MUCH harder to consistently "split hairs" over and over and over and over. This seems much less likely the situation, than Gho using the above scientific truth: that a plucked hair regrows.


It's completely scientifically plausible that if somebody could do what Gho says he is doing, then he would be multiplying hairs. No doctor will argue that if you could leave some of the cells around the bottom behind, then you would have regrowth.

[Follicle Death Row]

when you pluck a hair, it grows back. This is because the cells around the bottom and sides stay in the skin. These are the cells that Gho targets some of.


Personally, I think it would be MUCH harder to consistently "split hairs" over and over and over and over. This seems much less likely the situation, than Gho using the above scientific truth: that a plucked hair regrows.


It's completely scientifically plausible that if somebody could do what Gho says he is doing, then he would be multiplying hairs. No doctor will argue that if you could leave some of the cells around the bottom behind, then you would have regrowth.

Not splitting hairs but follicles and Gho is doing that but he claims they're growing back.

[NeedHairASAP]

Not splitting hairs but follicles and Gho is doing that but he claims they're growing back.

I meant splitting follicles.... splitting follicles precisely and consistently, to me, seems less likely and harder to do than what Gho claims he is doing (regenerating)

I feel like people are accusing him of something thats even less plausible than what he is claiming and to me that is funny

[Seb89]

Apparently gho did sneijders hair. Which does to be fair look amazing to what it was.

http://www.baldingcelebrities.com/2011/05/wesley-sneijder.html

[Follicle Death Row]

I meant splitting follicles.... splitting follicles precisely and consistently, to me, seems less likely and harder to do than what Gho claims he is doing (regenerating)

I feel like people are accusing him of something thats even less plausible than what he is claiming and to me that is funny

He definitely is splitting or transecting follicles. It's detailed in his papers. He's just claiming that if he splits a 3 haired follicle and plants 2 hairs in the recipient not only will they grow but the 2 extracted will also grow back in the donor meaning a net gain of 2 new hairs. Sounds great but I'm not yet completely convinced that's what consistently happens.

[gc83uk]

He definitely is splitting or transecting follicles. It's detailed in his papers. He's just claiming that if he splits a 3 haired follicle and plants 2 hairs in the recipient not only will they grow but the 2 extracted will also grow back in the donor meaning a net gain of 2 new hairs. Sounds great but I'm not yet completely convinced that's what consistently happens.

Sounds great is an understatement, it sounds fantastic.

[damielmillo]

Hi gc83uk, do you have any picture of update??
Are you happy with the results?

[2020]

this is so dumb....
Gho does not have access to hair cloning.
He cannot increase the number of hairs on your head.
He is simply moving hair from the back of your head to the front. This is just a regular hair transplant.

[gc83uk]

Who said he was cloning?

Do you understand the procedure at all? Are you also calling everyone who has had the procedure or going to have the procedure dumb too?

How do you know for sure "he cannot increase the number of hairs on your head"? What have I missed?

[gc83uk]

Hi gc83uk, do you have any picture of update??
Are you happy with the results?

Hey Damiel, yes I'm really happy with the results, i'll put up another picture this weekend, it's been about 5 months since I had it done, with a 2nd procedure booked in about 5 weeks time.

All the best

[Kirby_]

Great to hear about the positive results gc83uk, and hope the upcoming procedure goes well. :)

[2020]

Who said he was cloning?

because that's the only way to increase the number of ACTIVE follicles without taking drugs...
He can't create NEW hair. Best he can do is to move them around.

[gc83uk]

because that's the only way to increase the number of ACTIVE follicles without taking drugs...
He can't create NEW hair. Best he can do is to move them around.

"He is simply moving hair from the back of your head to the front. This is just a regular hair transplant."

So what is all this regrowth in the donor I'm having then? Imaginary?

[2020]

So what is all this regrowth in the donor I'm having then? Imaginary?

yes, because what you're describing is virtually impossible...

have you posted pictures yet?

[gc83uk]

Of course I have.

If you haven't seen the pictures I really don't know where you've been on this, it's all over the forum(s).

[damielmillo]

Hey gc83uk you must not waste your time showing again your pictures to all people. You had showed in the forum a lot of times your donor regrowth...
If he doesn´t want to believe is his problem...
we will go for the best hair treatment disponible now...time will show the truth
Good Luck!!

[gc83uk]

Hey gc83uk you must not waste your time showing again your pictures to all people. You had showed in the forum a lot of times your donor regrowth...
If he doesn´t want to believe is his problem...
we will go for the best hair treatment disponible now...time will show the truth
Good Luck!!

Cheers mate, I don't know why I bother really, I guess I just want to share the success so other people can benefit. Makes no difference to me. Still a long road ahead though, but I think I'm on the right one!

[NeedHairASAP]

yes, because what you're describing is virtually impossible...

have you posted pictures yet?

2020, do more research. Stop waisting people's time and making them repeat everything.

From your statement, it's obvious that you don't understand the procedure, or the difference between cloning hair and in situ regrowth

you clone hair in a pitri dish. you in situ hair when, for example, you pluck a hair, and it then grows back.

it grows back because of the cells at the bottom of the hair. If you can split those cells in half, then each half may regnerate the lost cells, which if one half was left in donor and one half implanted in the recipient would lead to a net increase in hair.

Nobody denies that when you pluck a hair out of your head with your finger, it often grows back. The science is proven. The question is: can gho extract half of the cells normally left behind during a "pluck"... and the answer is.... yes he probably can. It's really case closed unless you believe he is able to split follicular units with amazing precision.


I just don't get why you guys think he would spend 10 years researching and writing papers that show his thought process leading up to the "cell splitting" technique all just to split follicular units... I mean why not- ten years ago- write one fake paper and start splitting follicles then? why do all this reserach and write all these papers and make all these claims and put 10 years into creating a "fake technique"? I doubt Gho is playing the long, long, very long con

this isn't voodoo guys, its universally accepted science- you pluck a hair and it grows back because of the cells at the bottom.

[gc83uk]

2020, do more research. Stop waisting people's time and making them repeat everything.

From your statement, it's obvious that you don't understand the procedure, or the difference between cloning hair and in situ regrowth

you clone hair in a pitri dish. you in situ hair when, for example, you pluck a hair, and it then grows back.

it grows back because of the cells at the bottom of the hair. If you can split those cells in half, then each half may regnerate the lost cells, which if one half was left in donor and one half implanted in the recipient would lead to a net increase in hair.

Nobody denies that when you pluck a hair out of your head with your finger, it often grows back. The science is proven. The question is: can gho extract half of the cells normally left behind during a "pluck"... and the answer is.... yes he probably can. It's really case closed unless you believe he is able to split follicular units with amazing precision.

Well said Needhairasap

Precision so amazing that he doesn't even use goggles.

[Follicle Death Row]

I just don't get why you guys think he would spend 10 years researching and writing papers that show his thought process leading up to the "cell splitting" technique all just to split follicular units... I mean why not- ten years ago- write one fake paper and start splitting follicles then? why do all this reserach and write all these papers and make all these claims and put 10 years into creating a "fake technique"? I doubt Gho is playing the long, long, very long con

this isn't voodoo guys, its universally accepted science- you pluck a hair and it grows back because of the cells at the bottom.

He is splitting follicles. That's how he apparently takes enough of the dermal papillae to transplant hair yet leaves enough for it to regrow in the donor.

http://www.hasci.com/uploads/downloads/dad01225-0ceb-4a30-90c4-771ed900f25aHSI%20-%20Artikel_Gho%20Neumann.pdf

[gc83uk]

He is splitting follicles. That's how he apparently takes enough of the dermal papillae to transplant hair yet leaves enough for it to regrow in the donor.

http://www.hasci.com/uploads/downloads/dad01225-0ceb-4a30-90c4-771ed900f25aHSI%20-%20Artikel_Gho%20Neumann.pdf

From my understanding of it, this is technically correct. I'd go one further and say he isn't splitting the follicle in half for anyone thinking that, he is just taking a small part of it, so it can regrow in the donor.