Progress of upcoming treatments

[born]

Can someone inform briefly where the current 4 companies are ?Do we have an pictures that those treatments are working? I'm new to this forum ,i've read some threads but i'm confused.Thanks in advance.

[krewel]

They're all in Phase I and II, at least Replicel is in Phase I. No (new) pictures yet, we will see them this year.

[born]

They're all in Phase I and II, at least Replicel is in Phase I. No (new) pictures yet, we will see them this year.

And what's so special about histogen?It's the most discussed treatment thus far.

[krewel]

Well their Phase I results have been pretty impressive, you can look at them here (you need to scroll down a bit) :
http://www.histogen.com/aboutus/news_events.htm
In simple words, it's an injection which makes your hair grow again.

But please consider that these are Phase I results. I have seen many people on this forum counting the amount of new hair on these pictures and saying things like "Oh this won't be enough etc..."
Phase I is just there to ensure safety.

[Kirby_]

I have seen many people on this forum counting the amount of new hair on these pictures and saying things like "Oh this won't be enough etc..."
Still better than nowt. :) Those pictures look very promising. No miracle cure of course, but noticeably better than the existing treatments as far as I know.

[ffar]

krewel do you have links where I can see thos results of histogen be patients?

[Kampung101]

They're all in Phase I and II

Follica apparently finished phase 2 in the summer. So they should be heading into phase 3 in the near future.

[born]

Follica apparently finished phase 2 in the summer. So they should be heading into phase 3 in the near future.

I didn't know follica was on human trials.I really don't expect anything from them.It's hard to find info for those treatments.

[ffar]

Yeah, follicia... can someone know what this treatmant will look like??

[Reece]

Anyone still holding out hope for some type of replicel data q1 2012?

[Sogeking]

Yeah, follicia... can someone know what this treatmant will look like??

In the intial trial they did at Harvard University, they only tested dermabrasion with no pharmaceutical intervention, and 2 out of 15 people grew hairs with that. In this trial they've added the lithium component, but for the next trial it may even be possible for them to add more drugs to the lithium. Remember, everything they are using is already FDA approved, they're just looking for another indication to get it approved for

Basically there will be some wounding coupled with some lithium.

In my own opinion Follica a marginal treatment at best. I don't expect much from them. But Cotsarelis is doing good research for later generations so that is a plus. Anyways I wouldn't hope too much for Follica but competition is always good.

[HairTalk]

And what's so special about histogen?It's the most discussed treatment thus far.

I agree that a lot of the hype around Histogen's H.S.C. is unfounded. Everything anyone can say is based on a single pilot study, which was conducted in January of 2009. People often cite "impressive numbers," but the one before–after photograph Histogen has (as of Jan., 2012) shared is anything but remarkable.

I believe, at the moment, Histogen, RepliCel, and Aderans are the three major companies exploring innovative hair-restoration techniques. Regaring which is farthest in the "race," I don't think any is ever so far ahead to let a person make a bold claim — and, as it is, the slightest stumble would quickly set the leader back a number of paces.

Besides these three companies, I'm interested to hear how Dr. Robert Bernstein's research has come along, assuming he did begin mid-2011. Earlier, I was curious to learn what Dr. Cooley discovers plucking and ACell, but I believe that's fallen through (as almost everything in this field tends to).

By ~April of 2012, I believe, if nothing else, we should have a sense from most, if not all, of the above four sources about their progress. Until then, as I said, I feel anyone making any strong claims about any is simply blowing hard.

[HairTalk]

Anyone still holding out hope for some type of replicel data q1 2012?

I see no reason why not. Enrolling subjects, then following through, are the most difficult parts of a study (unless you also count acquiring funding, etc.). RepliCel has successfully finished treating everyone it set out to; the only thing that could "go wrong," now, is subjects' not reporting for follow-up. If this happens, it'll be too bad, but the only real effect ought to be, RepliCel would publish results with a smaller-than-anticipated n; the data still ought to come in.

Now, this study of RepliCel comprised only 19 subjects (down from the initially-planned 20, to save time). So, of course, no result ought to be considered "conclusive"; but, if all 19 persons come out with full heads of hair and showing no adverse effects — a long-shot, but nice to think about— I think everyone will have earned the right to be extremely happy.

[born]

There was a guy name bald halftruth from hair site saying ....

Hi Shooter. As I reported earlier... I was moved to the New Hyde Park, Long Island location (only 3 miles from where I live). I experienced pretty good regrowth to the two "almost" bald areas ARI worked on. "Pretty good" meaning cosmetically significant, but not the density I have on the "healthy" sides of my head. I'd say I've tripled the amount of hairs in those two small patches (approx. 2.5 square cm) ARI tested on. Where there were about 9-10 hairs in one of the patches, there are about 26-30 now. Significant increase, but not the density of 70-75 hairs per similar area on the sides of my head. But I'm due for another round of injections. They say theoretically, it should improve the results. We'll see. The reason for the long delay in the second round of injections is because they wanted to see if the new hairs have proper growth cycles.

Aderans method seams to work.The guy is indeed participant of aderans clinical trialts.

[ffar]

Hi. I have question. Does Aderans and Replicel method make rest of your hair on top save from DHT??

[krewel]

Hi. I have question. Does Aderans and Replicel method make rest of your hair on top save from DHT??

Replicel yes but I'm not sure about Aderans. But I think so.

[Kampung101]

but the one before–after photograph Histogen has (as of Jan., 2012) shared is anything but remarkable.


Keep in mind that the area of injection that photographed was no larger than a dime. Obviously a tiny area with a zoomed in picture isn't going to look that impressive, but considering the hair count they got per cm squared on just the 1st trial, its pretty impressive.

[Kampung101]

There was a guy name bald halftruth from hair site saying ....

Hi Shooter. As I reported earlier... I was moved to the New Hyde Park, Long Island location (only 3 miles from where I live). I experienced pretty good regrowth to the two "almost" bald areas ARI worked on. "Pretty good" meaning cosmetically significant, but not the density I have on the "healthy" sides of my head. I'd say I've tripled the amount of hairs in those two small patches (approx. 2.5 square cm) ARI tested on. Where there were about 9-10 hairs in one of the patches, there are about 26-30 now. Significant increase, but not the density of 70-75 hairs per similar area on the sides of my head. But I'm due for another round of injections. They say theoretically, it should improve the results. We'll see. The reason for the long delay in the second round of injections is because they wanted to see if the new hairs have proper growth cycles.

Aderans method seams to work.The guy is indeed participant of aderans clinical trialts.

Interesting find. I have to admit, since this is from hairsite, I'm a little bit cautious, but if you trust this poster, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

If what he says is true, and these results are the general norm for those in the experimental group, then things seem to be going pretty positive for Aderans.

[Have Hope3]

Anyone still holding out hope for some type of replicel data q1 2012?

Hello Everyone.. After having a small email conversation with the director of communications from RepliCel it is apparant that they are still planning on posting their phase 1 results sometime in late March. They are also hoping to start their phase 2b dosing trail in the Fall of 2012.

[DepressedByHairLoss]

I really have hope in all of the treatments/cures: Replicel, Histogen, Aderans, Follica. They all instill hope in me for different reasons. I think Replicel really offers us the best chance to restore our full heads of hair; their technique seems to be very innovative, concrete, and well-researched. I love how their procedure is supposed to create new follicles as well as repair damaged ones. I really like that Histogen's procedure is non-invasive and does not create any permanent scarring whatsoever. I think that testing has determined that HSC Complex can already create as much hair in a bald spot as your average transplant. I was not as confident in Aderans's results but since they recently received a $100 million investment, this may kick their procedure into high gear and they may be onto something. With regards to Follica, I think that Cotsarelis seems to be too much of a knowledgeable hair loss researcher to think that only micro-abrasion and lithium can lead to meaningful hair regrowth. I believe that lithium is only a very weak WNT agonist. And I don't think that Follica would market something that barely exceeds the expectations of today's shitbag options like Rogaine, Propecia, and regular hair transplants. Therefore, I think that Cotsarelis is developing a much more intricate and effective procedure than lithium + derm-abrasion. But I'm not a big fan of Cotsarelis's negativity, saying that hair loss won't be cured anytime soon. Having a full head of hair is so important to all of us so I don't see what the point is of being so damn negative. I really like the optimism of Replicel's founders who really believe they have found the cure to hair loss. That really just gives me a reason for living because I absolutely refuse to live the life of a bald man.
What I really do not have confidence in are these applications that attempt to multiply hair using hair transplants. I know that Drs. Bernstein and Cooley are somehow attempting to transplant hair and then regrow the hair from where it was transplanted using Acell. As we know normal hair transplants don't even come close to achieving a full head of hair, and even if this Acell technique was effective, then Acell would regenerate plucked hair in the donor area, thereby creating hair for more and more hair transplants. So I guess this would then allow doctors to pluck hair, regenerate the plucked hair follicle using Acell which would then allow them to pluck the hair regenerated by Acell all over again. This just does not seem feasible in my eyes, would create massive scarring, and would not even come close to giving us the full head of hair that we all want. And even then, you'll still need to be on Rogaine and Propecia for life. I wish that these doctors would forget about these hair transplants already, since they are very limited, extremely invasive, and don't give us nearly the results that we want. But I don't think that they're going to do that, since these HT's are huge money making machines.

[born]

Interesting find. I have to admit, since this is from hairsite, I'm a little bit cautious, but if you trust this poster, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

If what he says is true, and these results are the general norm for those in the experimental group, then things seem to be going pretty positive for Aderans.

yeah people of hairsite doubted that he was telling the truth,but his real name was given and he proved that he was indeed in touch with aderans.He is in new york btw.

[krewel]

yeah people of hairsite doubted that he was telling the truth,but his real name was given and he proved that he was indeed in touch with aderans.He is in new york btw.

Aderans will probably be the first company bringing a solution to the market. Their last Phase 2 trial will end this year.

[Follicle Death Row]

Aderans will probably be the first company bringing a solution to the market. Their last Phase 2 trial will end this year.

Yeah I still think they can have something on the market by 2014. Replicel's treatment sounds more promising but I don't think they'll make it by 2015.

[born]

since follica completed phase 2 studies when are we going to know about the results?

[Pate]

Since Follica are a private, unlisted company... whenever they can be bothered telling us.

[bigentries]

Did the guy from hairsite return or what?

Because I remember him being disappointed at the results, and while he saw regrow, it wasn't cosmetically relevant.
I do remember reading him about getting more injections. But something tells me they found out he was posting on the internet

[born]

Did the guy from hairsite return or what?

Because I remember him being disappointed at the results, and while he saw regrow, it wasn't cosmetically relevant.
I do remember reading him about getting more injections. But something tells me they found out he was posting on the internet

at the beginning he was dissapointed but after more injections he got good results.Results that will get better with more injections.They found out about him so he can't post photos.

[ffar]

Born you talk about histogen?

[born]

Born you talk about histogen?

no i'm talking about aderans.I've copyed his post it's in the second page of this thread.

[WashedOut]

If what that guy was saying was true then it's pretty impressive. It didn't produce freakishly thick hair or anything but it is compoundable and a way better option than the stuff we have now. I don't think anyone here would mind getting average looking hair that maybe requires a thickener like toppik without having to go through ordeals like surgery and taking propecia or applying rogaine.

[RichardDawkins]

Compoundable means Step by Step almost full regeneration thats the boring end of the story

Btw i dont wanna sound rude but i gues every single one of those treatments is actually aimed for compoundable because this means a little more money :-)

As a math number, this guys said he had prior around 9 hairs and after the first thing around 30 hairs, which equals around 15 Grafts. He went from around 4 Grafts wih visible hair to 15 Grafts.

This actually means that those injections ar reversing your hairloss because if there would be around lets say 14 hairs or so, you could say its the Minoy or FIN thing.

But around 15 Grafts well this is significant. Also i think, if you got multiple injections, your first coming back hairs will also gro stronger and stronger.

Just asume that you could tripple or get at least 15 new grafts everywhere on a complete bald persons head. This would at least transform him from a NW7 to a good NW5 without a linear scar or something

And that the results are getting better and better with multiple injections, this should be clear to everyone for the following reasons.

Hair loss is in fact also baed on a depleted "reservoir" of specific cells which got burned rapidly.

And with multiple injections you fill this reservoir and you stop the hair loss because of the donor characteristics and the immunity to DHT etc.

My prediction is, that for an almost fully restored head you need around 4 to 5 injections every 9 months or so.

I hope the price tag is correct :(

As you see iam not a pessimistic one nor am i an enthusiastic. I only say what will go on, and believe me 4 to 5 shots on a NW7 guy, a NW6 guy.

4 shots on a NW5 guy

3 on a NW4 guy

And so on

And i also predict, that all the current research will actually succed in providing something to work against hair loss effectively.

And i can also predict, that people who had extensive hair transplants done will not fully profit from those treatments, even if they get 20 injections because if a follicle is dead and destroyed, ist GONE FOREVER, end of Story.

So in other words, if you cant wait till 2014/2015 you should start to do HST on your front until you got the desired result, starting this year. This gives you an edge of around 3 years with each 1700 Grafts per year, resulting in 5100 HST Grafts on your frontal hairline, this should fix the frontal hair line forever and for good, and then use the stem cell treatements and delete your hair loss board accounts, end of a long sad story of your individual hair loss

[born]

If what that guy was saying was true then it's pretty impressive. It didn't produce freakishly thick hair or anything but it is compoundable and a way better option than the stuff we have now. I don't think anyone here would mind getting average looking hair that maybe requires a thickener like toppik without having to go through ordeals like surgery and taking propecia or applying rogaine.

the guy is telling the truth and he is gonna get more injections so in theory he can get more density.Aderans is indeed working otherwise it wouldn't get 100m dollars and it wouldn't expand their research.We are waiting for the results of phase 2 when it's finished.Also histogen and replicel may do the trick.All those companies will get as a treatment in the next 5 years.Until cotsarelis comes with a real cure :D

[clandestine]

Minoy...gro...asume...tripple...baed...ist
Dawkins, your spelling trips me out sometimes mate.
And a quesion;

So in other words, if you cant wait till 2014/2015 you should start to do HST on your front until you got the desired result, starting this year. This gives you an edge of around 3 years with each 1700 Grafts per year, resulting in 5100 HST Grafts on your frontal hairline, this should fix the frontal hair line forever and for good,

As I am not very well versed in knowledge regarding HST, would having a procedure done to one's front hairline be a permanent fix? For clarification, are the transplanted hairs somehow DHT resistant, or not likely to fall out for other reasons?

[krewel]

are the transplanted hairs somehow DHT resistant, or not likely to fall out for other reasons?

Yes, they are.

[born]

is histogen really working?it's over hyped but i don't see any results.

[clandestine]

Yes, they are.
Right on, thanks for the reply.

Also, curious why Dawkins is advocating the HST procedure in hopes that it will not conflict with upcoming cell treatments, but claims that traditional hair transplants would, in fact, conflict?

Reasoning?

[DepressedByHairLoss]

the guy is telling the truth and he is gonna get more injections so in theory he can get more density.Aderans is indeed working otherwise it wouldn't get 100m dollars and it wouldn't expand their research.We are waiting for the results of phase 2 when it's finished.Also histogen and replicel may do the trick.All those companies will get as a treatment in the next 5 years.Until cotsarelis comes with a real cure :D

I'm a bit disappointed in Cotsarelis if all he is using to stimulate hair growth is lithium and micro-wounding/derm-abrasion. He seems to be so knowledgeable on the subject of hair regrowth so I was hopefully expecting more from him, and hopefully he is using more elements/chemicals that we don't know about. Cotsarelis was one of the scientists who found that WNT's led to increased hair growth, and lithium (I believe) is a very weak WNT agonist. I wish he would use something more potent, like actual WNT's themselves to regrow hair. That being said, I really have confidence in Histogen because they are actually using WNT proteins to regrow hair and have achieved the results of your average hair transplant on their first try (with compounding their treatment), and Replicel really seem to have a solution for this hair loss curse. Man, I just wish they'd hurry up; living a life with baldness seems like I'm not even living at all.

[BMT]

Compoundable means Step by Step almost full regeneration thats the boring end of the story

Btw i dont wanna sound rude but i gues every single one of those treatments is actually aimed for compoundable because this means a little more money :-)

As a math number, this guys said he had prior around 9 hairs and after the first thing around 30 hairs, which equals around 15 Grafts. He went from around 4 Grafts wih visible hair to 15 Grafts.

This actually means that those injections ar reversing your hairloss because if there would be around lets say 14 hairs or so, you could say its the Minoy or FIN thing.

But around 15 Grafts well this is significant. Also i think, if you got multiple injections, your first coming back hairs will also gro stronger and stronger.

Just asume that you could tripple or get at least 15 new grafts everywhere on a complete bald persons head. This would at least transform him from a NW7 to a good NW5 without a linear scar or something

And that the results are getting better and better with multiple injections, this should be clear to everyone for the following reasons.

Hair loss is in fact also baed on a depleted "reservoir" of specific cells which got burned rapidly.

And with multiple injections you fill this reservoir and you stop the hair loss because of the donor characteristics and the immunity to DHT etc.

My prediction is, that for an almost fully restored head you need around 4 to 5 injections every 9 months or so.

I hope the price tag is correct :(

As you see iam not a pessimistic one nor am i an enthusiastic. I only say what will go on, and believe me 4 to 5 shots on a NW7 guy, a NW6 guy.

4 shots on a NW5 guy

3 on a NW4 guy

And so on

And i also predict, that all the current research will actually succed in providing something to work against hair loss effectively.

And i can also predict, that people who had extensive hair transplants done will not fully profit from those treatments, even if they get 20 injections because if a follicle is dead and destroyed, ist GONE FOREVER, end of Story.

So in other words, if you cant wait till 2014/2015 you should start to do HST on your front until you got the desired result, starting this year. This gives you an edge of around 3 years with each 1700 Grafts per year, resulting in 5100 HST Grafts on your frontal hairline, this should fix the frontal hair line forever and for good, and then use the stem cell treatements and delete your hair loss board accounts, end of a long sad story of your individual hair loss

Firslty, theres nothing to say that some of the emerging Hair multiplication methods won't create new hairs where none existed, i'm sure thats what replicel are aiming for.

Secondly, say in march Replicel announce great results, but won't be out till 2016. Then you could have a HT by a great FUE surgion, potentially get a better result that you would with GHO - and top up with HM. It would be less of a reason to use GHO, because your not going to be in a position where you'll need those extra donor hairs.

[krewel]

Firslty, theres nothing to say that some of the emerging Hair multiplication methods won't create new hairs where none existed, i'm sure thats what replicel are aiming for.

Secondly, say in march Replicel announce great results, but won't be out till 2016. Then you could have a HT by a great FUE surgion, potentially get a better result that you would with GHO - and top up with HM. It would be less of a reason to use GHO, because your not going to be in a position where you'll need those extra donor hairs.

First of all, you are about so spend money for your own body, it's not a TV or something. Since Ghos technique is clearly the better one, it's one reason enough to go for him.

Secondly, still going for FUE is stupid. First because Gho's solution is the better one. Furthermore it's about to take some changes here and stop sticking to the past. Gho's procedure should become the standard. I think everyone should take some responsibility here. But that's just my personal view.

[BMT]

The technique may be superior - but there are surgions that give superior results using the standard FUE. For example - i've seen some excellent results of patients using 2500 - 3000 grafts FUE in the hands of a top surgion which may be enough for many years.

If HM comes in, it could well trump Gho, as its much less invastive and has the potential to give better results. The idea of going from a NW 6 - NW 2 with GHO would take a long time...

Personally, if HM works and we hear good news this year, i'll be going with a world glass FUE surgion for 3000 grafts -

Having said that i think its great that GHO is out there! Just there are lots of ways to skin this cat.

[bigentries]

Personally, if HM works and we hear good news this year, i'll be going with a world glass FUE surgion for 3000 grafts -

Count me in, if we see good news this year, I'll wait a few months and will start to search for good FUE doctors to fix my hairline. By the time the rest of my hair would need attention HM would already be there

I also don't see the reason why to choose Gho over a good FUE doctor. Gho might offer regrowth (and that is still unconfirmed), but it's way more expensive. And people overreact about FUE scarring, I never read anyone complain about it before Gho started to sound again

Concerning Aderans, even if they only bring half of the density, I'm in. I can buzz it for the rest of my life

[DotheDewNorwood2]

Is anyone else waiting for Replicel data from Phase I to be released. If so, does anyone know when? I feel like this could be the biggest game changer in the hair loss industry. And yes, if positive results are shown in HM in 2012, I will start saving for a hair transplant too.

[Pate]

Is anyone else waiting for Replicel data from Phase I to be released.

LOL. Only every single man and woman in Spencer's following!

Results should be available hopefully by the end of March 2012.

[RichardDawkins]

Well thats your opinion but if i have the chance, i will do it right from the start, because you simply dont know if you ever need donor hair again. And you can go to your FUE guy but i would sta with HST thats it.

I dont care if i had to go to Gho two times instead of one time (FUE surgery) as long as i have not wasted any donor, have a lesser downtime and no shotgun scars.

Also you dont know if you will ever shave your head just for fun or mabe illness or something. And then nice white shootgun holes in the back of your head will make you look disfigured as a linear scar would, and thats the end of the story

[Pate]

Also you dont know if you will ever shave your head just for fun or mabe illness or something. And then nice white shootgun holes in the back of your head will make you look disfigured as a linear scar would, and thats the end of the story

A guy who works in my building has obviously had FUE.... a lot of FUE. His doner zone is so depleted he has a big bald patch at the back of his head. I don't know what doctor did it but it looks pretty bad.

But for all that, I can't see a single scar on the back of his head, and I've looked pretty carefully when I've been behind him in the elevator. It's just really sparse.

I figure a doctor who is so eager to fleece money out of his patients he'd do that probably isn't the greatest surgeon in the world, but even so he's managed to do it without noticeable scarring. I guess some guys get the white shotgun scars and some just don't.

Incidentally he is what really put me off FUE and transplants in general. On top of the bald patch he has a really unnatural head of hair, too thin overall and noticeably thicker but still unnatural looking for about half an inch at the hairline. Judging on family history I'm almost certain to end up a full NW6 and this guy is proof that a NW6 just does not generally have enough donor hair to look natural.

I would have to be pretty damn certain Replicel or Aderans is going to work in the near future before I went under the knife.

[nrj]

A guy who works in my building has obviously had FUE.... a lot of FUE. His doner zone is so depleted he has a big bald patch at the back of his head. I don't know what doctor did it but it looks pretty bad.

But for all that, I can't see a single scar on the back of his head, and I've looked pretty carefully when I've been behind him in the elevator. It's just really sparse.

I figure a doctor who is so eager to fleece money out of his patients he'd do that probably isn't the greatest surgeon in the world, but even so he's managed to do it without noticeable scarring. I guess some guys get the white shotgun scars and some just don't.

Incidentally he is what really put me off FUE and transplants in general. On top of the bald patch he has a really unnatural head of hair, too thin overall and noticeably thicker but still unnatural looking for about half an inch at the hairline. Judging on family history I'm almost certain to end up a full NW6 and this guy is proof that a NW6 just does not generally have enough donor hair to look natural.

I would have to be pretty damn certain Replicel or Aderans is going to work in the near future before I went under the knife.

fair enough, but its 1 guy at 1 surgeon.

In theory enough procedures with Dr. Gho should give you a full head of hair with around 80-90% regeneration.

[Have Hope3]

Is anyone else waiting for Replicel data from Phase I to be released. If so, does anyone know when? I feel like this could be the biggest game changer in the hair loss industry. And yes, if positive results are shown in HM in 2012, I will start saving for a hair transplant too.

Hey DTD, I was told by their director of communications via email that the phase 1 results would be released in late March and they hope to start the phase 2 injections in the fall of 2012. She then said that 2015 was a realistic goal for RepliCel to be available to the public.

[nrj]

Hey DTD, I was told by their director of communications via email that the phase 1 results would be released in late March and they hope to start the phase 2 injections in the fall of 2012. She then said that 2015 was a realistic goal for RepliCel to be available to the public.

excellent !! lets hope we havent lost too much hair by then :D

[HairTalk]

Hey DTD, I was told by their director of communications via email that the phase 1 results would be released in late March and they hope to start the phase 2 injections in the fall of 2012. She then said that 2015 was a realistic goal for RepliCel to be available to the public.

Let's bear in mind, whether RepliCel ever proceeds to phase-II testing will depend on the results of phase-I: until those results come in, no one has any clue to whether this procedure will be successful.

I'm sorry if this sounds overtly negative, but I don't feel it's sensible to get one's hopes up very easily — especially not in the hair-restoration industry.

[DotheDewNorwood2]

Hope3, thanks for channeling the info. I really appreciate it. My fingers are crossed.

[Thinning@30]

I know how important hope is to us all, so I hate to sound pessimistic, but one thing that bothers me about everyting that Replicel has told us so far, is that they don't seem to have figured out their distribution plan yet. In other words, if all the trials prove successful, how we will all get a Replicel treatment? Will these be done at hair transplant clinics? Dermatology offices? Also, how will treatments be administered, and who will administer them? Will the providers of the Replicel treatment need some kind of training in the procedure?

I guess my point is that there are so many unkowns that even if Replicel's procedure clears trials on schedule,this does not mean that we will all get our hair back on January 1, 2015. A truly effective baldness treatment without terrible side effects would be immensely popular, and if the providers are not on top of things, I can see all kinds of problems with shortages and distribution cropping up.

[Thinning@30]

Count me in, if we see good news this year, I'll wait a few months and will start to search for good FUE doctors to fix my hairline. By the time the rest of my hair would need attention HM would already be there

I also don't see the reason why to choose Gho over a good FUE doctor. Gho might offer regrowth (and that is still unconfirmed), but it's way more expensive. And people overreact about FUE scarring, I never read anyone complain about it before Gho started to sound again

Concerning Aderans, even if they only bring half of the density, I'm in. I can buzz it for the rest of my life

I actually think that because the Aderans, Histogen, Replicel, etc, trials look promising, all hair loss sufferers should be especially wary of hair transplants at this stage in the game. The next generation of hair loss treatments look promising in early trials, but there is no reason to think that they would work on the scar tissue that is created by conventional hair transplants. I would bet that all the clinical trials for the new treatments were conducted on virgin scalps. The new treatments may or may not work on transplanted scalps, we just don't know yet. One reason I haven't had a transplant myself is because I am afraid that the next generation of treatments won't work or won't be as effective on patients with transplanted hair.

[HairTalk]

I actually think that because the Aderans, Histogen, Replicel, etc, trials look promising, all hair loss sufferers should be especially wary of hair transplants at this stage in the game. The next generation of hair loss treatments look promising in early trials, but there is no reason to think that they would work on the scar tissue that is created by conventional hair transplants. I would bet that all the clinical trials for the new treatments were conducted on virgin scalps. The new treatments may or may not work on transplanted scalps, we just don't know yet. One reason I haven't had a transplant myself is because I am afraid that the next generation of treatments won't work or won't be as effective on patients with transplanted hair.

I agree, but, Histogen's exclusion criteria (http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT01501617?term=histogen&rank=1) do leave me confused:

10. [...] Hair transplantation surgery during the last 6 months. [...]

12.Presence of hair transplants or scalp surgery.

So, does this or does this not mean persons who received hair-transplantation surgery more than six months prior to Histogen's study will be excluded?

[Sogeking]

I know how important hope is to us all, so I hate to sound pessimistic, but one thing that bothers me about everyting that Replicel has told us so far, is that they don't seem to have figured out their distribution plan yet. In other words, if all the trials prove successful, how we will all get a Replicel treatment? Will these be done at hair transplant clinics? Dermatology offices? Also, how will treatments be administered, and who will administer them? Will the providers of the Replicel treatment need some kind of training in the procedure?

I guess my point is that there are so many unkowns that even if Replicel's procedure clears trials on schedule,this does not mean that we will all get our hair back on January 1, 2015. A truly effective baldness treatment without terrible side effects would be immensely popular, and if the providers are not on top of things, I can see all kinds of problems with shortages and distribution cropping up.

Hey Thinning. I hate to be a negative chap. But CEO David Hall said that if phase I trials are good they would like to attract Big Pharma. I am honestly dreading the thought.

But let us not speculate, one thing at a time. First: phase I trials results. Ee can then discuss other stuff later....

[NeedHairASAP]

Hey Thinning. I hate to be a negative chap. But CEO David Hall said that if phase I trials are good they would like to attract Big Pharma. I am honestly dreading the thought.

But let us not speculate, one thing at a time. First: phase I trials results. Ee can then discuss other stuff later....

Big Pharma could be good. Economies of size are what allow prices to dip below introductory prices

[Kirby_]

I'm not naive enough to believe that Big Pharma has our best interests at heart (heck, see the lack of universal healthcare in the States). However I have a low tolerance for the conspiracy theory angle either, to be honest.

[sausage]

surely you could have your scalp removed and have the scalp and hair of a dead person sewn onto you head, that would solve hair loss?

or could the donor scalp not work on the recipient and end up dying and rotting away on your head.

Maybe not then.

[DepressedByHairLoss]

Hey Thinning. I hate to be a negative chap. But CEO David Hall said that if phase I trials are good they would like to attract Big Pharma. I am honestly dreading the thought.

But let us not speculate, one thing at a time. First: phase I trials results. Ee can then discuss other stuff later....

I too would absolutely dread it if they were to attract Big Pharma. As most of us know, big pharmaceutical companies just want constantly "treat" diseases instead of curing them, and they sure as hell don't give a damn about the good of the people. But I'm not sure that that's what Replicel is trying to do. After all, they say on their website that they're attempting to develop a permanent solution to hair loss, which I think means that they're shooting for a cure and not a treatment, since a treatment would not be permanent and would require multiple, periodic doses to retain and regrow hair. I hope Replicel is similar to Anthony Atala's lab in North Carolina, where they explicitly state that they're looking to "cure" diseases, not simply "treat" them. I think what Replicel is hoping to do is to get great Phase I results and then use these results to attract investors, which will help fund things like further clinical trials. I don't think they are looking to outsource their technology to some big pharmaceutical company, since that would take away millions from their forseeable profit margin. If their hair loss treatment is a permanent cure for hair loss (meaning that it regrows hair and prevents hair loss), then it would literally be a billion dollar treatment, even if it would cost a ton of money. Hell, hair transplants, Rogaine, and Propecia are multi-million dollar industries and I think less than 10% of hair loss sufferers even opt for these treatments, so one can only imagine how extremely profitable a permanent cure for hair loss would be.

[youngsufferer]

I too would absolutely dread it if they were to attract Big Pharma. As most of us know, big pharmaceutical companies just want constantly "treat" diseases instead of curing them, and they sure as hell don't give a damn about the good of the people. But I'm not sure that that's what Replicel is trying to do. After all, they say on their website that they're attempting to develop a permanent solution to hair loss, which I think means that they're shooting for a cure and not a treatment, since a treatment would not be permanent and would require multiple, periodic doses to retain and regrow hair. I hope Replicel is similar to Anthony Atala's lab in North Carolina, where they explicitly state that they're looking to "cure" diseases, not simply "treat" them. I think what Replicel is hoping to do is to get great Phase I results and then use these results to attract investors, which will help fund things like further clinical trials. I don't think they are looking to outsource their technology to some big pharmaceutical company, since that would take away millions from their forseeable profit margin. If their hair loss treatment is a permanent cure for hair loss (meaning that it regrows hair and prevents hair loss), then it would literally be a billion dollar treatment, even if it would cost a ton of money. Hell, hair transplants, Rogaine, and Propecia are multi-million dollar industries and I think less than 10% of hair loss sufferers even opt for these treatments, so one can only imagine how extremely profitable a permanent cure for hair loss would be.

I'm 20 years old and this is my first post so I'm sure you'll use that against me but I had to register to respond to this.

I've been lurking here for about a year now when I started receding and I'm now a norwood 3. The fact that Replicel WANTS to include big pharma in their treatment should be the first sign that we don't want anything to do with replicel. You've already said pharma wants to treat not cure, which is absolutely true. Why pay 20,000 dollars and cure somebody when you can milk them for 100,000 over a lifetime. That's the motivation right? These companies are racing for the treatment because there's a huge goldmine at the end, not because they actually want to help people.

Another thing is, do you really think replicel and other companies care about what Spencer has to say about them? People spend millions on rogaine/propecia/otherbullshit without even looking anything up. These companies know that people will buy no matter what and they're looking to milk it as much as they can, the only factor of who wins the race is who's treatment works the best. In the end, that's all it is, a TREATMENT. These companies know they can tell Spencer one thing and go the other direction, and they don't have to join the IAHRS because they'll make money regardless.
As a young business owner this is my opinion, that's all it is.


I respect Spencer and all he does for this community, but get used to being bald fellas.

[re22]

One step at a time. It's good to question these things, but you're getting into conspiracy theory territory right now.

[DepressedByHairLoss]

I'm 20 years old and this is my first post so I'm sure you'll use that against me but I had to register to respond to this.

I've been lurking here for about a year now when I started receding and I'm now a norwood 3. The fact that Replicel WANTS to include big pharma in their treatment should be the first sign that we don't want anything to do with replicel. You've already said pharma wants to treat not cure, which is absolutely true. Why pay 20,000 dollars and cure somebody when you can milk them for 100,000 over a lifetime. That's the motivation right? These companies are racing for the treatment because there's a huge goldmine at the end, not because they actually want to help people.

Another thing is, do you really think replicel and other companies care about what Spencer has to say about them? People spend millions on rogaine/propecia/otherbullshit without even looking anything up. These companies know that people will buy no matter what and they're looking to milk it as much as they can, the only factor of who wins the race is who's treatment works the best. In the end, that's all it is, a TREATMENT. These companies know they can tell Spencer one thing and go the other direction, and they don't have to join the IAHRS because they'll make money regardless.
As a young business owner this is my opinion, that's all it is.


I respect Spencer and all he does for this community, but get used to being bald fellas.

I disagree with a lot of this. I consider a cure for my hair loss as having a full head of hair again like I used to. Hell, I'd even be happy with full enough head of hair where I can post current photos of myself and barely anyone would notice any hair loss. Replicel's goal is for its patients to achieve a full head of hair once again, or as they say on their website, to develop a permanent solution to hair loss. So if their method restores me with a full head of hair or anything close to it, then I would consider that a cure. I really think that they're not looking to outsource their technology to some large pharmaceutical giant, they're just looking for investors so that they can gain more capital to fund such things as further clinical trials. And I'm glad that their company's mission totally deviates from the aims of these large pharmaceutical companies, as I said before.
I think Replicel absolutely cares what Spencer thinks and has to say about them. Otherwise, they wouldn't even conduct interviews with him in the first place. Spencer is one of the world's foremost hair loss advocates and is recognized as such by major television stations, magazines, and newspapers. His opinion really does hold major weight with regards to which company has the best method to restoring a full head of hair to people suffering from hair loss. He's already conducted a couple of interviews with a representative from Histogen and I'd bet he'll be setting up an interview with an Aderans representative very soon.
I do agree with you though when it comes to these big pharmaceutical companies. Their ulterior motives are totally disgusting and they're totally screwing around with our health when they aim to develop semi-effective (and oftentimes very ineffective) methods to "treat" diseases as opposed to curing them. They are all about making money for themselves rather than the health of the general public; they literally make me sick to my stomach.

[youngsufferer]

Before I go any further let me just say I hope you guys are right, and one day I'll be able to have a social life and enjoy my youth before it slips away. Also Spencer is great and he's a big reason why I haven't given up on life yet.

Anyway, companies like replicel know that's all you want, and you'll do ANYTHING for it back. Replicel, Aderans, and Histogen all state they want to bring a full head of hair back to their customers on their website. The disturbing thing is, looking at Bosley's website and seeing the same thing. I'm not sold on any of these companies because of how hesitant they are to show results and the lack of pictures. I get proof of concept, but how am I supposed to have faith when I haven't seen anything to change my mind? I don't know about you, but if I found a cure for cancer I'd have billboards, popups, commercials , AND people going door to door promoting my product.

Spencer's word holds weight with the people that are intelligent enough to seek help and research hairloss, most people are not. The majority of the population think rogaine works, I know this because all my family and friends tell me to use it. Point is, these companies know the average population will buy into anything that offers false hope and if they don't have a sure-fire cure, they're planning on exploiting this to get as much money as they can 100%. As far as I can see, they don't have a sure-fire anything.

Don't get me wrong, If I saw pictures of baldness reversed within months, I would need a new wardrobe after the amounts of pants I'd shit in. It hasn't happened yet, and we're only 2 years away from Aderans' time to shine.


Again, I would LOVE to change my mind about this I'm just waiting for something to happen.





I disagree with a lot of this. I consider a cure for my hair loss as having a full head of hair again like I used to. Hell, I'd even be happy with full enough head of hair where I can post current photos of myself and barely anyone would notice any hair loss. Replicel's goal is for its patients to achieve a full head of hair once again, or as they say on their website, to develop a permanent solution to hair loss. So if their method restores me with a full head of hair or anything close to it, then I would consider that a cure. I really think that they're not looking to outsource their technology to some large pharmaceutical giant, they're just looking for investors so that they can gain more capital to fund such things as further clinical trials. And I'm glad that their company's mission totally deviates from the aims of these large pharmaceutical companies, as I said before.
I think Replicel absolutely cares what Spencer thinks and has to say about them. Otherwise, they wouldn't even conduct interviews with him in the first place. Spencer is one of the world's foremost hair loss advocates and is recognized as such by major television stations, magazines, and newspapers. His opinion really does hold major weight with regards to which company has the best method to restoring a full head of hair to people suffering from hair loss. He's already conducted a couple of interviews with a representative from Histogen and I'd bet he'll be setting up an interview with an Aderans representative very soon.
I do agree with you though when it comes to these big pharmaceutical companies. Their ulterior motives are totally disgusting and they're totally screwing around with our health when they aim to develop semi-effective (and oftentimes very ineffective) methods to "treat" diseases as opposed to curing them. They are all about making money for themselves rather than the health of the general public; they literally make me sick to my stomach.

[DepressedByHairLoss]

You bring up some good points and I totally feel for you, man, being only 20 years old and suffering from hair loss. You're right about the majority of the population being clueless with regards to hair loss. There are so many examples. My old hairdresser told me to use Rogaine, thinking it is some sort of wonder treatment for hair loss. Hell, my dermatologist even tried to tell me what an ethical company Bosley is, despite their absolutely horrendous reputation. You're right, a lot of people really are naive and not well-informed at all when it comes to hair loss. I can't stand when I see those Bosley ads in the middle of football games, promising to restore a full head of hair to people suffering from hair loss. You and I know how full of shit they are, but unfortunately most of the population doesn't, and I'd bet lots of people will jump at the chance to make an appointment with Bosley based on those absolutely asinine commercials.
You're right about the lack of photographic evidence with regards to human hair growth when it comes to companies like Histogen, Replicel, and Aderans. I'm skeptical of Aderans (mainly because they're run by the extremely unethical Bosley corporation), but I do believe in the technology of Histogen and Replicel, mainly because the scientists and researchers that they employ have great reputations and the technology behind their proposed methods for hair regrowth are very well-researched and show great promise. For example, many scientists have determined that such things as WNT proteins, Nestin, and dermal fibroblasts can lead to increased hair growth in humans. These are some of the chemicals that Histogen is using to attempt to regrow hair. So at least the science behind their methods is solid. With regards to Bosley, they are just falsely advertising methods to supposedly achieve a full head of hair (like hair transplants or all-natural shampoos containing shit like plant extracts or natural supplements) which have no legitimate science behind them and are just utterly false. And the worst are some these advertisements that you see on the internet that advertise that some all-natural shampoo or cream will restore a full head of hair. Those are just so blatantly false that they don't even attempt to advertise that there is any scientific backing behind their claims anyway.
Also, I will admit that a small part of my optimism comes from the fact that I just cannot accept to live a life with baldness/hair loss. These supposed hair loss cures like Histogen or Replicel really do give me a reason to go on, knowing that I may not have to deal with this hair loss much longer.
And BTW, that comment about how you'd need a new wardrobe for all the pants you'd shit in was witty as hell and just downright classic!

[youngsufferer]

You bring up some good points and I totally feel for you, man, being only 20 years old and suffering from hair loss. You're right about the majority of the population being clueless with regards to hair loss. There are so many examples. My old hairdresser told me to use Rogaine, thinking it is some sort of wonder treatment for hair loss. Hell, my dermatologist even tried to tell me what an ethical company Bosley is, despite their absolutely horrendous reputation. You're right, a lot of people really are naive and not well-informed at all when it comes to hair loss. I can't stand when I see those Bosley ads in the middle of football games, promising to restore a full head of hair to people suffering from hair loss. You and I know how full of shit they are, but unfortunately most of the population doesn't, and I'd bet lots of people will jump at the chance to make an appointment with Bosley based on those absolutely asinine commercials.
You're right about the lack of photographic evidence with regards to human hair growth when it comes to companies like Histogen, Replicel, and Aderans. I'm skeptical of Aderans (mainly because they're run by the extremely unethical Bosley corporation), but I do believe in the technology of Histogen and Replicel, mainly because the scientists and researchers that they employ have great reputations and the technology behind their proposed methods for hair regrowth are very well-researched and show great promise. For example, many scientists have determined that such things as WNT proteins, Nestin, and dermal fibroblasts can lead to increased hair growth in humans. These are some of the chemicals that Histogen is using to attempt to regrow hair. So at least the science behind their methods is solid. With regards to Bosley, they are just falsely advertising methods to supposedly achieve a full head of hair (like hair transplants or all-natural shampoos containing shit like plant extracts or natural supplements) which have no legitimate science behind them and are just utterly false. And the worst are some these advertisements that you see on the internet that advertise that some all-natural shampoo or cream will restore a full head of hair. Those are just so blatantly false that they don't even attempt to advertise that there is any scientific backing behind their claims anyway.
Also, I will admit that a small part of my optimism comes from the fact that I just cannot accept to live a life with baldness/hair loss. These supposed hair loss cures like Histogen or Replicel really do give me a reason to go on, knowing that I may not have to deal with this hair loss much longer.
And BTW, that comment about how you'd need a new wardrobe for all the pants you'd shit in was witty as hell and just downright classic!


I completely agree about not being able to accept it. There is positivity in this whole thing to where I can focus on making money and furthering myself rather than getting hammered and being non-productive. Gotta find the positives in things.

Anyway I hope my negativity doesn't stir up arguments because I didn't mean to offend anyone. You can imagine my hostility towards life going from an active life and dropping out of college and completely changing my lifestyle because of this curse. Trying to get through it day by day but living in limbo is no fun!

[Penny Stock]

I'm 20 years old and this is my first post so I'm sure you'll use that against me but I had to register to respond to this.

I've been lurking here for about a year now when I started receding and I'm now a norwood 3. The fact that Replicel WANTS to include big pharma in their treatment should be the first sign that we don't want anything to do with replicel. You've already said pharma wants to treat not cure, which is absolutely true. Why pay 20,000 dollars and cure somebody when you can milk them for 100,000 over a lifetime. That's the motivation right? These companies are racing for the treatment because there's a huge goldmine at the end, not because they actually want to help people.

Another thing is, do you really think replicel and other companies care about what Spencer has to say about them? People spend millions on rogaine/propecia/otherbullshit without even looking anything up. These companies know that people will buy no matter what and they're looking to milk it as much as they can, the only factor of who wins the race is who's treatment works the best. In the end, that's all it is, a TREATMENT. These companies know they can tell Spencer one thing and go the other direction, and they don't have to join the IAHRS because they'll make money regardless.
As a young business owner this is my opinion, that's all it is.


I respect Spencer and all he does for this community, but get used to being bald fellas.

Hey Man,

I'm sorry to single you out, but you're the only one who used figures as an argument against "Big Pharma" being a negative thing for this whole process.

Time and time again I see this agreement, but yet little thought goes into it, and figures are pulled from the sky.

Are "Big Pharma" out to make the most money possible?
Yes.

But let's look at it objectively, Johnson and Johnson are Big Phama, they turn over 24 billion a year or there about right?

But what do they make from the average Rogain user $240 per year, let’s assume the average user uses the product for 20 years that’s $4,800.00.

Currently only 10 percent of balding men seek treatment.

Now let's assume you’re Big Pharma, I come to you with a product and say, how about instead of $4,800.00 over 20 years for your existing clients, I give you $20,000 for each of them today, and not only that, I will expand your client base by 300 percent.

Just something to think about.

[Kiwi]

Hey Man,

I'm sorry to single you out, but you're the only one who used figures as an argument against "Big Pharma" being a negative thing for this whole process.

Time and time again I see this agreement, but yet little thought goes into it, and figures are pulled from the sky.

Are "Big Pharma" out to make the most money possible?
Yes.

But let's look at it objectively, Johnson and Johnson are Big Phama, they turn over 24 billion a year or there about right?

But what do they make from the average Rogain user $240 per year, let’s assume the average user uses the product for 20 years that’s $4,800.00.

Currently only 10 percent of balding men seek treatment.

Now let's assume you’re Big Pharma, I come to you with a product and say, how about instead of $4,800.00 over 20 years for your existing clients, I give you $20,000 for each of them today, and not only that, I will expand your client base by 300 percent.

Just something to think about.

Finally some sense!! Thanks for your comment :)

[bigentries]

Hey Man,

I'm sorry to single you out, but you're the only one who used figures as an argument against "Big Pharma" being a negative thing for this whole process.

Time and time again I see this agreement, but yet little thought goes into it, and figures are pulled from the sky.

Are "Big Pharma" out to make the most money possible?
Yes.

But let's look at it objectively, Johnson and Johnson are Big Phama, they turn over 24 billion a year or there about right?

But what do they make from the average Rogain user $240 per year, let’s assume the average user uses the product for 20 years that’s $4,800.00.

Currently only 10 percent of balding men seek treatment.

Now let's assume you’re Big Pharma, I come to you with a product and say, how about instead of $4,800.00 over 20 years for your existing clients, I give you $20,000 for each of them today, and not only that, I will expand your client base by 300 percent.

Just something to think about.

Bingo!
This analysis should be compulsory read for anyone that believe a cure is being hidden

Are Big Pharma evil? yes. But people make it seem they are some sort of templarians conspiracy theory

[RichardDawkins]

Thats the point, also there is one market rule. Money today is much more valuable then tomorrow.

And dont forget not everyone will use Minox or Fin for the rest of his life and those companies know that.

Believe me a cure would be the holy grail for them, cause air loss is not life threatening and can therefor easily be used etc.

Just for one second assume you are this big company and you offer one sesion for lets say 3000 dollars, now assume this patient got his hair back and has bald friends and he tells them about it.

You got advertismenet WITHOUT paying a single dollar, no on the other hand YOU GET PAID

And you have an infinite amount of baldies every year until mankind dies, Do you really think any company would jeoparidze this money printing device for just water it down, while there are also competition on the market?

If so they should file for bancrupcy today.

And yes those companies are greedy but not stupid, they know hair loss willbe presenet forever cause its genetics but somethinglike AIDS is a desease which if once eradicated cannot generate money anymore.

Assume you would haveone single HIV posiitve person on anisland of 10 people. Now this HIV person vanishes, then you dont have HIV on this island anymore

But now assume baldies transfer their genes to the after generation, you will still have hair loss endofstory

[bigentries]

An HIV vaccine is also a cash cow

Considering the size of the epidemic right now, a vaccine is worthless without a global vaccination campaign.
We are talking about billions of people

Add the fact that many governments see HIV as a just punishment for homosexual behavior or adultery, it would take decades to completely eradicate it

[sausage]

its true, this minoxidil ball-crap is ripping so many people off, they must be laughing all the way to the bank.

In the past year or two in the UK they have advertised it on tv, people are being mugged. I wonder how many people have thought 'WOW a cure for my baldness' when they have seen this advert and rush out to buy it for it just to make their head sticky, eyes itch and even kill their cat (yes minoxidil can kill your pet cat).

We all need something solid that actually works, and not all this crap in a bottle.

I am seeing what look to be 'successful' hair transplants and they interest me but I am still totally skeptical about it, I don't have a clue what the real truth behind HT's is. I need to visit Rooney and see if I can pull his hair out.

[youngsufferer]

Thats the point, also there is one market rule. Money today is much more valuable then tomorrow.

And dont forget not everyone will use Minox or Fin for the rest of his life and those companies know that.

Believe me a cure would be the holy grail for them, cause air loss is not life threatening and can therefor easily be used etc.

Just for one second assume you are this big company and you offer one sesion for lets say 3000 dollars, now assume this patient got his hair back and has bald friends and he tells them about it.

You got advertismenet WITHOUT paying a single dollar, no on the other hand YOU GET PAID

And you have an infinite amount of baldies every year until mankind dies, Do you really think any company would jeoparidze this money printing device for just water it down, while there are also competition on the market?

If so they should file for bancrupcy today.

And yes those companies are greedy but not stupid, they know hair loss willbe presenet forever cause its genetics but somethinglike AIDS is a desease which if once eradicated cannot generate money anymore.

Assume you would haveone single HIV posiitve person on anisland of 10 people. Now this HIV person vanishes, then you dont have HIV on this island anymore

But now assume baldies transfer their genes to the after generation, you will still have hair loss endofstory

Very good points. My only concern is that Aderans(big pharm/bosley/thedevil) will be the first out the gate with an acceptable product, pulling funding away from replicel and histogen and eventually putting them out of business just because they were first. It sounds silly but when the general population hears "Cure for baldness" that's all they will care about, no future treatments just the now, like you said.

Either way you've definitely given me some hope so thank you for that.

[bigentries]

Very good points. My only concern is that Aderans(big pharm/bosley/thedevil) will be the first out the gate with an acceptable product, pulling funding away from replicel and histogen and eventually putting them out of business just because they were first. It sounds silly but when the general population hears "Cure for baldness" that's all they will care about, no future treatments just the now, like you said.

Either way you've definitely given me some hope so thank you for that.

That would only worry me if replicel and histogen were not being tested already. Considering all treatments are almost on par, I think there is nothing to worry about

If Aderans is indeed released first, the other treatments would be in the final phases of testing. A successful launching of the Aderans product only means good things for Histogen and Replicel, they wouldn't have problems commercializing their products if success is guaranteed

If we are able to see some sort of "War of baldness cures" we should consider ourselves a lucky generation of baldies

[Sogeking]

Well it is always good to be positive. But do you know what is interesting about "Big Pharma"?
I always like to put up acne as an example. If you frequent acne sufferers boards you will see that things like acne vaccines (against overproduction of sebum) and other new potential treatments have mysteriously vanished only few years after appearing. Why? Well even if they price those treatments for a considerable amount of money, it would be a one time thing.

Now just ask yourselves how much cosmetics women buy, there are like 5 or 6 different creams for different uses. The same thing and goal is for acne, too. Giving you 23 or 4 topical creams for you to fight your acne until you are an adult, and for some even later. Thats how Big Pharma works. Money, money, money.
A sad thing is that as a species we are trying to eradicate rasicm, misogyny, misandry, homophobia and all slew of other types of discrimination. Even those against hair loss sufferers. But we still discriminate according to money. And having a lot of money through immoral, but not illegal ways, is still applauded. Those with money have better service, resources and availability when it comes to basic human needs.


All that said in case of hair loss the case is different than in the case of acne sufferes. Reason is simple: Minoxidil and Finasteride don't give expectable results in long term for most, and for some even in short term. That is why this new treatments are coming through the pipeline.

Sure if some of them work they will make us pay a lot for it. But screw it all I won't get a new car but new hair. A sacrifice I am gladly willing to make.

[DepressedByHairLoss]

Sogeking, you really bring up a bunch of good points here. Your analogy with regards to acne treatments is absolutely correct and really illustrates that these big pharmaceutical companies are out to "treat", and not "cure", diseases and conditions because a lifetime treatment will make them a hell of a lot more money than a one-time cure. I haven't seen any pharmaceutical company cure a damn thing (even something simple like athlete's foot, for God's sake), but they ALWAYS offer treatments instead that always require that a person keeps taking them or else their effect will wear off. That's what really pisses me off (and why I make such a big deal about it), because they're supposed to be developing solutions to cure diseases, but they're a hell of a lot more concerned with their own profits instead. That's the absolute reverse of the way it should be. So I enjoyed reading your post Sogeking, you really seem like a sensible guy.
Penny Stock, I see your point of view, but Rogaine is really the exception to the rule, because in most cases a lifetime treatment will make a company a hell of a lot more money than a one-time cure. One reason that Rogaine is an exception to the rule is because it is such a crappy product that surprisingly generates a lot of money. I have yet to see some one truly achieve meaningful hair regrowth while on Rogaine by itself. Yet despite its inefficiency or the fact that less than 10% of people even use it, it still made Johnson & Johnson 42 million dollars a year in profits in 2007, which is truly mind-boggling, especially considering that Rogaine is such a shit treatment. It's true that if Johnson & Johnson (or any other pharmaceutical company) offered a one-time cure that cost around $20,000, they would make a lot of money and many more people would opt for this than Rogaine. The problem is that I haven't seen them (or any other big pharmaceutical company) even try to develop anything superior to Rogaine or Propecia. In fact, I only see 4 companies in all the world even trying to develop something superior to the crappy options that are available to us today. Only 4 companies! That to me is just glaringly suspicious.

[Kiwi]

Sogeking, you really bring up a bunch of good points here. Your analogy with regards to acne treatments is absolutely correct and really illustrates that these big pharmaceutical companies are out to "treat", and not "cure", diseases and conditions because a lifetime treatment will make them a hell of a lot more money than a one-time cure. I haven't seen any pharmaceutical company cure a damn thing (even something simple like athlete's foot, for God's sake), but they ALWAYS offer treatments instead that always require that a person keeps taking them or else their effect will wear off. That's what really pisses me off (and why I make such a big deal about it), because they're supposed to be developing solutions to cure diseases, but they're a hell of a lot more concerned with their own profits instead. That's the absolute reverse of the way it should be. So I enjoyed reading your post Sogeking, you really seem like a sensible guy.
Penny Stock, I see your point of view, but Rogaine is really the exception to the rule, because in most cases a lifetime treatment will make a company a hell of a lot more money than a one-time cure. One reason that Rogaine is an exception to the rule is because it is such a crappy product that surprisingly generates a lot of money. I have yet to see some one truly achieve meaningful hair regrowth while on Rogaine by itself. Yet despite its inefficiency or the fact that less than 10% of people even use it, it still made Johnson & Johnson 42 million dollars a year in profits in 2007, which is truly mind-boggling, especially considering that Rogaine is such a shit treatment. It's true that if Johnson & Johnson (or any other pharmaceutical company) offered a one-time cure that cost around $20,000, they would make a lot of money and many more people would opt for this than Rogaine. The problem is that I haven't seen them (or any other big pharmaceutical company) even try to develop anything superior to Rogaine or Propecia. In fact, I only see 4 companies in all the world even trying to develop something superior to the crappy options that are available to us today. Only 4 companies! That to me is just glaringly suspicious.

But you are forgetting that both the market and the science and the tech is all changing. A lot of the pharma companies have held patents that stop other companies from creating cures *gee thanks american patent laws - LAME* but this is changing with new technologies. For instance a lot of the pharam companies can't stop stem cell research because they didnt see it coming.

And now we're seeing companies like Histogen (who just won a court case), Aderans, and Replicel that are all doing things differently enough that they can actually create new products and take them to market without the stepping on any of the pharma companies toes. Even though it probably pisses them off. This is happening all the time now that scientists are having breakthroughs with nano tech and stem cell research.

Also if a pharma company holds the rights and the patent to a "treatment" that leaves the market only to companies that want to make a "cure" which might be what we're seeing now.

Also there are probably more then just 4 companies. I know there are other companies europe working on this stuff and god knows what else is happening in china or japan or any number of countries that want to make some money.

[Kiwi]

And yes those companies are greedy but not stupid, they know hair loss will be presenet forever cause its genetics but something like AIDS is a desease which if once eradicated cannot generate money anymore.

Assume you would haveone single HIV posiitve person on anisland of 10 people. Now this HIV person vanishes, then you dont have HIV on this island anymore


Your heart is in the right place but you're wrong - I have friends researching vacines for HIV right now. The only thing that is stopping this from happening is computing power - trust me if they had Quantum machines that could figure this out tomorrow then they would have an HIV vacine on the market :)

[RichardDawkins]

Fair enough, i just wanted to give a lets say very very easy to understand example :-)

Because every company knows, a cure forbaldnessis cheap and can generate profit and they could easily say "He baldies just incase get your head injected every five years"

Baldies would do it, even if it wouldnt be neccesaire

Thats the good thing about hair loss, you can pretty much manipulate it and turn it around

And i dont think that the current problem is to stop and reverse hair loss, i think the problem right now is to get those cultured cells to migrate in those "empty follicles"

Btw those injections also DONT vanish when injected on a NW7 person,they will only slower start to migrate.Also even if those follicles are not there anymore, the cells will form what they have to dobut you have to injectmultiple times

[DepressedByHairLoss]

But you are forgetting that both the market and the science and the tech is all changing. A lot of the pharma companies have held patents that stop other companies from creating cures *gee thanks american patent laws - LAME* but this is changing with new technologies. For instance a lot of the pharam companies can't stop stem cell research because they didnt see it coming.

And now we're seeing companies like Histogen (who just won a court case), Aderans, and Replicel that are all doing things differently enough that they can actually create new products and take them to market without the stepping on any of the pharma companies toes. Even though it probably pisses them off. This is happening all the time now that scientists are having breakthroughs with nano tech and stem cell research.

Also if a pharma company holds the rights and the patent to a "treatment" that leaves the market only to companies that want to make a "cure" which might be what we're seeing now.

Also there are probably more then just 4 companies. I know there are other companies europe working on this stuff and god knows what else is happening in china or japan or any number of countries that want to make some money.

Hey man, you do bring up some good points. With regards to the patents you mentioned in the first paragraph, I do agree with you. I brought up the example of thymosin B4 a few months ago. This was chemical that was initially developed by Regenerx that actually had solid potential for hair regrowth. Regenerx filed a patent to use thymosin B4 to regrow hair in 2002, but they haven't done a damn thing to conduct clinical trials or anything to bring this to human application. It's just languishing on the vine. However, in 2010, Actistem (from South Korea, I think) actually developed a product that contained thymosin B4 to regrow hair yet they stopped selling it only after a few months. Why? Because Regenerx threatened to sue the pants off of them. So that's an example of what you said about companies holding patents that prevent others from creating cures, and a perfect example of these pharmaceutical companies caring much more about profit than anyone else's well-being.
Kiwi, you're right that things are changing and thankfully so. I just wish things would've changed a lot sooner, then we might actually have some kind of cure or viable treatment for hair loss now. I really applaud what Replicel, Histogen, and Aderans are doing, but I still think that the big pharmaceutical companies will still try to get in their way, simply because if they're hair regrowth methods do actually work like they say they will, then they will not only cut into their profit margins, but make their shit products like Rogaine and Propecia obsolete. Also, it would make hair transplants obsolete, which is why I hear all of these HT doctors either denigrating these new methods or saying that they won't be released for like 15 years.
With regards to other companies trying to cure hair loss, I'd really love to know of some. I think I've heard about one other European (Italian?) company looking to develop some kind of topical anti-androgen; I think it was called something like CB 03 01. In terms of Asian efforts to cure hair loss, I've seen some sporadic articles about individuals looking to develop something, but I haven't seen any concerted efforts to cure or develop a treatment for hair loss.

[Pate]

Unfortunately CB-03-01 might struggle to be developed because of Replicel etc. It costs many millions of dollars to develop a drug through to marketing and pharmaceutical companies might be reluctant to invest in one if they think Replicel is going to come along and obliterate the market in five years.

Which is a real shame because CB sounds fantastic, with none of the sides of internal anti-androgens and apparently good results. Plus the POC study only used application once or twice a week.

It would be a great option to confine Propecia to the scrap heap. And as I see it the only way there will be no market for anti-androgens is if Replicel is 100% effective not only at regrowth but preventing further loss. And while I fervently hope that turns out to be the case I accept it might not work quite that well.

But hopefully the fact CB is useful for acne will carry it forward to the next phase trials.

[Kiwi]

Hey man, you do bring up some good points. With regards to the patents you mentioned in the first paragraph, I do agree with you. I brought up the example of thymosin B4 a few months ago. This was chemical that was initially developed by Regenerx that actually had solid potential for hair regrowth. Regenerx filed a patent to use thymosin B4 to regrow hair in 2002, but they haven't done a damn thing to conduct clinical trials or anything to bring this to human application. It's just languishing on the vine. However, in 2010, Actistem (from South Korea, I think) actually developed a product that contained thymosin B4 to regrow hair yet they stopped selling it only after a few months. Why? Because Regenerx threatened to sue the pants off of them. So that's an example of what you said about companies holding patents that prevent others from creating cures, and a perfect example of these pharmaceutical companies caring much more about profit than anyone else's well-being.
Kiwi, you're right that things are changing and thankfully so. I just wish things would've changed a lot sooner, then we might actually have some kind of cure or viable treatment for hair loss now. I really applaud what Replicel, Histogen, and Aderans are doing, but I still think that the big pharmaceutical companies will still try to get in their way, simply because if they're hair regrowth methods do actually work like they say they will, then they will not only cut into their profit margins, but make their shit products like Rogaine and Propecia obsolete. Also, it would make hair transplants obsolete, which is why I hear all of these HT doctors either denigrating these new methods or saying that they won't be released for like 15 years.
With regards to other companies trying to cure hair loss, I'd really love to know of some. I think I've heard about one other European (Italian?) company looking to develop some kind of topical anti-androgen; I think it was called something like CB 03 01. In terms of Asian efforts to cure hair loss, I've seen some sporadic articles about individuals looking to develop something, but I haven't seen any concerted efforts to cure or develop a treatment for hair loss.

Happy new year man.

I wonder if once they launch Propecia and Minox will up their game. If they have inside knowledge that these products are indeed about to launch that would be the time to disrupt the market.

That said people like me will always hate Propecia for its side effects so as soon as Histogen / Aderans and Replicel hit the streets I'm buying :)

[2020]

A lot of the pharma companies have held patents that stop other companies from creating cures *gee thanks american patent laws - LAME*

name one...

[Pate]

name one...

'Cures' is the wrong word but if you take it that Kiwi meant "treatments significantly superior to Propecia and Rogaine" then he's right, several companies have been sitting on patents for a decade or longer, not even trying to develop them despite as DBH said, the current treatments are crap.

RU and NEOSH-101 are two examples. An RU-NEOSH combination could be significantly better than the Propecia-Rogaine combination (although RU did have stability problems in solution I think).

NEOSH was an especially unlucky victim, since the company that was developing it also had a cancer drug development program, and they got bought out by a bigger cancer drug company. So the new owners were only interested in the cancer drugs, and now NEOSH is sitting quietly awaiting patent expiry (after which I guess nobody will bother trying to develop it since they can't recoup costs?). RU has been pulled from Prostrakan's website development pipeline too, so that's probably dead as well.

Our best hope now for open-market drugs seems to be a CB-03-01 and Latisse combo, and even if CB is developed it won't be til 2016 at the earliest (I just looked up their development pipeline in the latest presentation on the Cosmo website).

Which will be 20 years since Propecia, even though initial work on RU was done in the mid-90s if I recall correctly.

It's all rather frustrating, and the fact minox is still used by the gallon (including by me) even though its effects are marginal shows that the market is there for even a minor improvement in regrowth.

One final point, it's not US patent law that affected RU and NEOSH since both patents were held by European companies.

[Kiwi]

name one...

Do your own research douche bag... You think that pharma companies dont sue the little guys?

[bigentries]

Do your own research douche bag... You think that pharma companies dont sue the little guys?

I'm also interested, because people always bring up this sort of conspiracy theories and never really back them up

I've read many times about how "big pharma" has stopped other hair loss solutions in the past, but they never specify which, and if they do, it is always debatable as the people involved have never said a word about it.

Some even believe there was some sort of complot regarding Intercytex :rolleyes:

[Kiwi]

I'm also interested, because people always bring up this sort of conspiracy theories and never really back them up

I've read many times about how "big pharma" has stopped other hair loss solutions in the past, but they never specify which, and if they do, it is always debatable as the people involved have never said a word about it.

Some even believe there was some sort of complot regarding Intercytex :rolleyes:

Histogen for one. Just won a court case...

[bigentries]

Histogen for one. Just won a court case...

A Patent lawsuit is far from what I would consider a conspiracy. Companies sue each other all the time. And I've never read about Histogen considering it anything other than ordinary legal stuff.

[Kiwi]

A Patent lawsuit is far from what I would consider a conspiracy. Companies sue each other all the time. And I've never read about Histogen considering it anything other than ordinary legal stuff.

Its no conspiracy that law suits are slowing down solutions for us. Its just a fact.

Fact - US patent laws suck my ring hole

[bigentries]

Its no conspiracy that law suits are slowing down solutions for us. Its just a fact.

Fact - US patent laws suck my ring hole

What solutions besides Histogen? Was any big company involved in the lawsuit?

And come on, don't you think Histogen or Aderans would do the same if they had the opportunity? Because that's why I understand any time they use the word "patented" to describe their treatments

[Kiwi]

What solutions besides Histogen? Was any big company involved in the lawsuit?

And come on, don't you think Histogen or Aderans would do the same if they had the opportunity? Because that's why I understand any time they use the word "patented" to describe their treatments

Somebody else mentioned another one early. I loathe having to even read your comments, let alone argue the negative impact patents have had on the world, so I can't be assed looking for you.

That said ironically the solutions we're waiting for are also patented like you say.

So if they work then we're all going to be laughing even though I'm anti patent laws (as they are now - I believe more in a use it or loose it type approach). But if they don't work then their patents could fuck us all over by stopping another company refining those ideas...

For all you red neck patent loving fools listen to this:
http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/441/when-patents-attack

p.s. if you're not a patent loving red neck fool please don't be offended by that ;)

[bigentries]

But patents are the reason someone is investigating about MPB in the first place.

It is a cosmetical issue. The only reason they are pursing this is because it's a "disease" that mostly affects old males (probably rich and white). If this was a social problem, Cuba would had started to find a cure

Can you imagine the uproar if public money went to this?

[Kiwi]

But patents are the reason someone is investigating about MPB in the first place.

It is a cosmetical issue. The only reason they are pursing this is because it's a "disease" that mostly affects old males (probably rich and white). If this was a social problem, Cuba would had started to find a cure

Can you imagine the uproar if public money went to this?

I don't agree. Patents don't stop companies from making products. Patents stop more then one company making products.

Anyway its a complicated and furious debate - I work in the Open Source world and run a successful business and I have pure capitalist beliefs (i.e. not anything like what america is). Go figure.

The mission here is to push companies to help make solutions with MPB. Thats it.

Also I dont' see why public money would or should go into and I don't see what public money has to do with patents.

[gmonasco]

Also I dont' see why public money would or should go into and I don't see what public money has to do with patents.

His point is that the search for a MPB cure is driven by the profit motive (as fostered by the patent system). Otherwise a MPB cure would have be funded by public expenditures, which many people would object to as a frivolous waste of money on a cosmetic issue.

[DepressedByHairLoss]

Hey Kiwi, I totally agree with your "use it or lose it" approach that you advocated with regards to patents. Many of these companies do actually patent a chemical or a procedure that could regrow hair, yet then they sit on that patent for many years and do not do anything productive to bring a treatment using that patented chemical/procedure to fruition. Regenerx's patent for Thymosin B4 to regrow hair is a perfect example. Another is the patent for proteasome inhibitors to regrow hair, a patent which is currently held by Leo Pharmaceuticals, who bought right to that patent from Peplin. The use of proteasome inhibitors to regrow hair was initially developed by Neosil/Osteoscreen but they ran out of money to develop the treatment (also the head of this company passed away) and the company folded. Neosil/Osteoscreen really worked hard to bring their patented hair regrowth method to fruition yet when they had to sell their patent to Peplin (who subsequently then sold it to Leo Pharmaceuticals), the clinical trials were not reinstated and have not been for years now. This really frustrated the hell out of me because Neosil/Osteoscreen were almost at Phase III of clinical trials. So yeah, I totally agree with a "use it or lose it" mentality with regards to patents: a company should not be able to simply sit on a patent for many years and simply not do a damn thing to advance it to help the good of the people.
Haha, we spent all of December arguing with each other and now we finally agree on something!!! (---:
Also, on another note, I notice that you recently stopped Propecia due to side effects and I'm really tempted to do the same thing. I've noticed 2-3 bad side effects and if was so absolutely scared to death about going bald, then I would've quit that shit a long time ago. Merck claims that only like 3% of people suffer from side effects, but I really think that's absolute lie and they know it.

[ILLSHAVEIT]

Damn man I hate guys like that with no hope...depressing everybody even more, hope is the best thing we can have. Hope is life, life is about hope...

I just really HOPE replicel works guys, even if I don't have the money (which I fukin don't) at least knowing that it's treatable and I could get my hair back, it's something that will get me on.

If replicel doesnt show good results on march, we will be....at least I....in severe depression.

Damn medical science hasn't cured anything important...i have a chronic disease besides balding and guess what because it doesnt kill me nobody gives a RAT ASS about a cure....same with balding however THERE IS MUCH MUCH PROFIT in a cure of balding, INSTANT CASH FLOW ! no point in milking it too long....IMO. Just get your billions and move on ....dont milk trillions in 100 years ....

Anyways I think im talking out my arse.

[Kiwi]

Hey Kiwi, I totally agree with your "use it or lose it" approach that you advocated with regards to patents. Many of these companies do actually patent a chemical or a procedure that could regrow hair, yet then they sit on that patent for many years and do not do anything productive to bring a treatment using that patented chemical/procedure to fruition. Regenerx's patent for Thymosin B4 to regrow hair is a perfect example. Another is the patent for proteasome inhibitors to regrow hair, a patent which is currently held by Leo Pharmaceuticals, who bought right to that patent from Peplin. The use of proteasome inhibitors to regrow hair was initially developed by Neosil/Osteoscreen but they ran out of money to develop the treatment (also the head of this company passed away) and the company folded. Neosil/Osteoscreen really worked hard to bring their patented hair regrowth method to fruition yet when they had to sell their patent to Peplin (who subsequently then sold it to Leo Pharmaceuticals), the clinical trials were not reinstated and have not been for years now. This really frustrated the hell out of me because Neosil/Osteoscreen were almost at Phase III of clinical trials. So yeah, I totally agree with a "use it or lose it" mentality with regards to patents: a company should not be able to simply sit on a patent for many years and simply not do a damn thing to advance it to help the good of the people.
Haha, we spent all of December arguing with each other and now we finally agree on something!!! (---:
Also, on another note, I notice that you recently stopped Propecia due to side effects and I'm really tempted to do the same thing. I've noticed 2-3 bad side effects and if was so absolutely scared to death about going bald, then I would've quit that shit a long time ago. Merck claims that only like 3% of people suffer from side effects, but I really think that's absolute lie and they know it.

Sorry to hear about your side effects. I was not loosing my ability to maintain an erection but I lost my morning stiffy so I knew something was wrong. Also my libodo was actually going down hill too.

One morning I had a crazy heart pulpatation and thought 'fuck this, i've got 3700 average grafts so hopefully that'll see me through to either Histogen or Aderans hits the market'... So there you have it... Fingers crossed!!

[kanyon]

I have been on Finasteride for 1 year and I believe it has stopped or slowed down my hair loss. As I understand it (and correct me if I'm wrong), Finasteride commonly works for around 5 years. So if one of these new treatments arrives in the next 4 years, I should be able to survivie without shaving my head and being a complete baldy.

I'm 29 now and if I can have a decent head of hair by 33 I can resume living my life normally again. That would be awesome.

[young]

Hi Everyone. I have been lurking for a while, in hope of finding some hope for the future.

I am really hoping for some good news come April 2012.

Treating MPB effectively, MUST be possible in todays world. And there is financial incentive to do so.

I can not be the only one, who really does not give a flying donkey's how a full head of hair can be restored in a reasonable timeframe.

Whether the "cure" be distributed to small clinics, in pills, a liquid solution, a shake, injection, inserting a micro-chip into your testicles (I may be on to something there :D )... Whatever the method, whatever the cost, I will do it.

If I have to pay 5000 a year to have one tiny injection, or 50.000 for a one time thing... I don't care. I will sell my car, my flat screen, the lot.

And I truly believe most would. I know a lot of men that just don't really care, but if they had an actual option, I am sure they would.

If someone waved an actual solution in front of you (whoever it is), I will bet my bottom dollar that you would sell just about everything you own to obtain it. Well maybe not everyone, but most under a certain age would.

I am also one to believe that whoever comes up with it, will soon be lending money to the likes of Bill and Warren.

I am quite optimistic about how things are going. I am not worried about Big Pharma, or distribution concerns. Once the curing treatment gets out, we will witness the world's biggest rat race to get a piece of that pie.

There may be people getting screwed by the bigger guns, but the product will get out. It's simply too big to bury.

Now the question is... Will full heads of hair become boring when everyone has long flowing beautiful locks? I digress.


The cure is out there, and it will come. Don't you worry.

[Have Hope3]

Sorry to hear about your side effects. I was not loosing my ability to maintain an erection but I lost my morning stiffy so I knew something was wrong. Also my libodo was actually going down hill too.

One morning I had a crazy heart pulpatation and thought 'fuck this, i've got 3700 average grafts so hopefully that'll see me through to either Histogen or Aderans hits the market'... So there you have it... Fingers crossed!!

Kiwi and Depressed by Hairloss,

I am kinda in the same boat. I have been on Propecia for a long time now. Unfortunately I feel like the positive effects propecia has had on me are starting to wear off. My hair really seems to be thinning now and on top of that, I am starting to experience the awful side effects. This puts me in a tough situation. Do I stop taking Propecia and run the risk of losing all my hair or stay on it for a while to try to bridge the gap before these treatments hopefully arive? I am going to wait until April to atleast see what we hear from them. I really really hope just like the rest of you that Histogen, Aderans, Follica, or even RepliCel surprise us and come out with an effective product in the next 2-3 years. Time will tell!

[clandestine]

Now the question is... Will full heads of hair become boring when everyone has long flowing beautiful locks? I digress.


The cure is out there, and it will come. Don't you worry.

A nice thought :] Thanks for the optimism.

[Kiwi]

Kiwi and Depressed by Hairloss,

I am kinda in the same boat. I have been on Propecia for a long time now. Unfortunately I feel like the positive effects propecia has had on me are starting to wear off. My hair really seems to be thinning now and on top of that, I am starting to experience the awful side effects. This puts me in a tough situation. Do I stop taking Propecia and run the risk of losing all my hair or stay on it for a while to try to bridge the gap before these treatments hopefully arive? I am going to wait until April to atleast see what we hear from them. I really really hope just like the rest of you that Histogen, Aderans, Follica, or even RepliCel surprise us and come out with an effective product in the next 2-3 years. Time will tell!

I just wish I didnt have a HT. If I could go back I'd shave my head to a #1 and wait until a treatment comes. Then I'd have no scar and no effects of that scummy drug propecia :P

[born]

has histogen started their phase 1/2 trials in asia?

[sausage]

I just wish I didnt have a HT. If I could go back I'd shave my head to a #1 and wait until a treatment comes. Then I'd have no scar and no effects of that scummy drug propecia :P

Who knows when a treatment will come......no1's even close to a treatment.

Ignoring your scar and the scummy propecia drug are you happy with your transplanted hair, does it look good?

[Kirby_]

Who knows when a treatment will come......no1's even close to a treatment.

Ignoring your scar and the scummy propecia drug are you happy with your transplanted hair, does it look good?
Don't be so off-puttingly negative. Of course we (unfortunately) will have to wait on this, but better treatments will emerge in time. It's inevitable with scientific progress (and profit-seeking motives!).

[Kiwi]

Who knows when a treatment will come......no1's even close to a treatment.

Ignoring your scar and the scummy propecia drug are you happy with your transplanted hair, does it look good?

I don't believe half the grafts took. I'll probably get another 3000 grafts... not sure by whom though. I'm thinking about Shapiro or even Umar (who to me is like Gho but actually comes to the party with the rest of the hair loss community).

[Pate]

For the guys considering stopping Propecia, just keep in mind that Replicel, Histogen etc may not be fully effective on bald scalp. They may (and probably will) be more effective at regenerating damaged follicles that still have all the supporting anatomy there, than regrowing new ones in areas where the follicles are dead and the fat layer that supports them has wasted away.

So even though I don't like Propecia, I plan to keep taking it until CB-03-01 or something topical is available, because I want those follicles to be as healthy as possible by the time Replicel or Histogen is available.

I also use minox and Nizoral for the same reason. They may not be growing much hair back (except in the crown where I had good regrowth) but the way I see it, even slowing down the balding process is a positive result, keeping these hair follicles in the best condition possible.

Re the comment about hair becoming boring when there's a cure... I think that when there is a full cure for hairloss (by which I mean 100% regrowth NW1) and baldness is a choice, a lot of the social stigma over baldness will vanish.

[Maradona]

For the guys considering stopping Propecia, just keep in mind that Replicel, Histogen etc may not be fully effective on bald scalp. They may (and probably will) be more effective at regenerating damaged follicles that still have all the supporting anatomy there, than regrowing new ones in areas where the follicles are dead and the fat layer that supports them has wasted away.

So even though I don't like Propecia, I plan to keep taking it until CB-03-01 or something topical is available, because I want those follicles to be as healthy as possible by the time Replicel or Histogen is available.

I also use minox and Nizoral for the same reason. They may not be growing much hair back (except in the crown where I had good regrowth) but the way I see it, even slowing down the balding process is a positive result, keeping these hair follicles in the best condition possible.

Re the comment about hair becoming boring when there's a cure... I think that when there is a full cure for hairloss (by which I mean 100% regrowth NW1) and baldness is a choice, a lot of the social stigma over baldness will vanish.

good point bro, if replicel works it's not gonna hide anything though. replicel ain't like other companies you know...they will reveal everything on april.

And you pose a good question that joe from staten island might ask to replicel after their superawesome results.

[clandestine]

And you pose a good question that joe from staten island might ask to replicel after their superawesome results.

Personally I get weird vibes from 'Joe from Staten Island' when listening to him on the bald truth talk. Not to talk shit or pass judgement unnecessarily, but I feel at his age he's focusing a little more on his hair loss than he is his family /his kids. I listened to an episode where it was discussed how his (ten year old?) child had verbalized concerns regarding hair loss. Your focus becomes your reality, and one should be cautious when acting the position of a role model. As I've said previously, we should by no means let this condition dictate our lives, and /or become especially obsessive over it. Not healthy. Just an observation.

[Pate]

Let's wait and see what Replicel tell us straight up in April. Then we can evaluate it, discuss it, and decide what points we need to ask them, and then somebody can e-mail them.

As a publicly-listed company interested in growing their exposure I expect them to be a lot more forthcoming and open than Follica or Aderans.

They are pretty good at answering stuff on their facebook page too. Which is impressive given the amount of idiotic questions that get asked, they must get tired of it!

[DepressedByHairLoss]

For the guys considering stopping Propecia, just keep in mind that Replicel, Histogen etc may not be fully effective on bald scalp. They may (and probably will) be more effective at regenerating damaged follicles that still have all the supporting anatomy there, than regrowing new ones in areas where the follicles are dead and the fat layer that supports them has wasted away.

So even though I don't like Propecia, I plan to keep taking it until CB-03-01 or something topical is available, because I want those follicles to be as healthy as possible by the time Replicel or Histogen is available.

I also use minox and Nizoral for the same reason. They may not be growing much hair back (except in the crown where I had good regrowth) but the way I see it, even slowing down the balding process is a positive result, keeping these hair follicles in the best condition possible.

Re the comment about hair becoming boring when there's a cure... I think that when there is a full cure for hairloss (by which I mean 100% regrowth NW1) and baldness is a choice, a lot of the social stigma over baldness will vanish.

I disagree bro. I think Replicel's goal is to create new follicles and to repair damaged ones. So according to Replicel's goals, they're attempting to create a full head of hair no matter how bald a person is. And BTW, I cannot f'n stand the social stigma of baldness. I get so pissed off when I see that fuckin dick Larry David making fun of baldness. Imagine if some one made fun of some one's race or ethnicity like many people do about baldness. They'd be booted off the air so fast that their head would spin. Look at what happened to his compatriot Michael Richards. That's something that really pisses me off.

[Pate]

I disagree bro. I think Replicel's goal is to create new follicles and to repair damaged ones. So according to Replicel's goals, they're attempting to create a full head of hair no matter how bald a person is. And BTW, I cannot f'n stand the social stigma of baldness. I get so pissed off when I see that fuckin dick Larry David making fun of baldness. Imagine if some one made fun of some one's race or ethnicity like many people do about baldness. They'd be booted off the air so fast that their head would spin. Look at what happened to his compatriot Michael Richards. That's something that really pisses me off.

That's definitely Replicel's goal, yeah. And they can create SOME hair on the foot pads of mice so they can definitely create new follicles from scratch. But they can create a lot more hair on areas that already support hair ie mouse ears.

So it could be that the process works better on areas that aren't totally bald. We just don't know. I personally think it's unlikely that the first iteration of Replicel will grow back a full density NW1 on a NW7 scalp. I think the first iteration will likely grow a few new hairs and regenerate a lot of damaged ones.

But I hope I am wrong and you are right. In fact I will never be so happy to be wrong about something in my life. ;)

And yeah I hear you about making fun of baldness. I am 30 and a lot of younger guys in particular when I'm out at a bar think it's funny to try and put me down in front of women. You would never make fun of somebody's race in that situation, or even if they were overweight, you wouldn't make fun of them for that. But baldness is fair game?

It actually depresses me not so much because of the baldness (which I have come to accept) but because it makes me realise that a high percentage of people are just dicks.

[Sogeking]

That's definitely Replicel's goal, yeah. And they can create SOME hair on the foot pads of mice so they can definitely create new follicles from scratch. But they can create a lot more hair on areas that already support hair ie mouse ears.

So it could be that the process works better on areas that aren't totally bald. We just don't know. I personally think it's unlikely that the first iteration of Replicel will grow back a full density NW1 on a NW7 scalp. I think the first iteration will likely grow a few new hairs and regenerate a lot of damaged ones.

But I hope I am wrong and you are right. In fact I will never be so happy to be wrong about something in my life. ;)

And yeah I hear you about making fun of baldness. I am 30 and a lot of younger guys in particular when I'm out at a bar think it's funny to try and put me down in front of women. You would never make fun of somebody's race in that situation, or even if they were overweight, you wouldn't make fun of them for that. But baldness is fair game?

It actually depresses me not so much because of the baldness (which I have come to accept) but because it makes me realise that a high percentage of people are just dicks.
Thats because they want to make themselves feel better. And in the same time try to derogate you. Thus you chances are lower.

We are all lacking in something, and we all have flaws, our misfortune was that we got the flaw which is visible...

I too hope that Replicel can make grow new hair follicles, but I think Pate is right in his speculation. However that so far it is just speculation. I am just waiting for April. And hoping :).

[clandestine]

We are all lacking in something, and we all have flaws, our misfortune was that we got the flaw which is visible...

Truth. Agree.

[Seb89]

Really good thread in terms of debate.

In terms of the whole curing baldness thing, tbh I think someone out there will be looking at a one pill wonder cure to eradicate baldness totally. Just my utter fantasy of an opinion mind, but as someone pointed out only 10% of men actually try to do something about it.

That figure would probably be reversed and only about 10% wouldnt bother fixing it if an actual affordable cure came on the market.

The amount they could make if someone found this cure would be ridiculous, it would far dwarf what they make now.

People will always go bald, thats what histroy has taught us, so there will always be new clients to get. Even if its only a one time client, they will still always make cash.

[sausage]

Only 10% of people do anything about it....thats not a surprise.

I can see why people that start balding past 40 don't worry about it too much.
Although I have seen photos on here of a 72 year old's HT, I mean WTF, your a few years from death and you have a HT, madness!

There is nothing decent out there to stop hairloss so no wonder only 10% do something about it. Hair transplants are out of peoples budgets and generally have a bad name for themselves anyway....although with many celebrities having HT's which look good then that 10% figure will go up.

Also in the UK minoxidil sales are bound to have gone up in recent years because of the constant adverts for it on TV. Many people losing their hair will be conned in thinking this will get their hair back.

Not sure when that 10% figure arose (I expect a few years back) but its probably a bit higher these days.

For under 30's the figure would be a lot higher.

[StressedToTheBald]

Really good thread in terms of debate.

In terms of the whole curing baldness thing, tbh I think someone out there will be looking at a one pill wonder cure to eradicate baldness totally. Just my utter fantasy of an opinion mind, but as someone pointed out only 10% of men actually try to do something about it.

That figure would probably be reversed and only about 10% wouldnt bother fixing it if an actual affordable cure came on the market.

The amount they could make if someone found this cure would be ridiculous, it would far dwarf what they make now.

People will always go bald, thats what histroy has taught us, so there will always be new clients to get. Even if its only a one time client, they will still always make cash.

I wouldn't bet my remaining hair on that.
True - a one time cure would bring billions. But hair industry is already earning billions, propecia, rogaine, hair transplants.. Use common sense - if You were a manufacturer or a hair surgeon, earning a fortune each year - would You really be in a hurry to potentially end Your current and future guaranteed & extremely high cash flow ?

Consider that a one time real cure would overall be cheaper, You wouldn't have to buy it each month, each year and so on for the rest of Your life like with the current 'proven 3', nor would You have to pay thousands and thousands for hair transplant or other 'treatments & products'.

If a cure was developed, companies would get a small one time amount from each bald guy and thats it, only the new generations would bring additional profits.. This way, as things are today - profits are made for life ! For life and both from current and upcoming generations.

Its in our interest for the cure to be found. But is it really in theirs ? Use common sense, the answer is sadly NO !

[2020]

I wouldn't bet my remaining hair on that.
True - a one time cure would bring billions. But hair industry is already earning billions, propecia, rogaine, hair transplants.. Use common sense - if You were a manufacturer or a hair surgeon, earning a fortune each year - would You really be in a hurry to potentially end Your current and future guaranteed & extremely high cash flow ?

Consider that a one time real cure would overall be cheaper, You wouldn't have to buy it each month, each year and so on for the rest of Your life like with the current 'proven 3', nor would You have to pay thousands and thousands for hair transplant or other 'treatments & products'.

If a cure was developed, companies would get a small one time amount from each bald guy and thats it, only the new generations would bring additional profits.. This way, as things are today - profits are made for life ! For life and both from current and upcoming generations.

Its in our interest for the cure to be found. But is it really in theirs ? Use common sense, the answer is sadly NO !

you stupid idiot... read my previous post.

What do you mean by HAIR INDUSTRY!? Hair industry is just a term for a group of companies that specialize in hair. Those companies operate INDIVIDUALLY, they COMPETE!
A dollar earned by Propecia is in theory a dollar loss for Rogaine and every other company that's part of the "hair industry". It's in their BEST INTEREST to come up with something better than Propecia to steer all that money flow to them and the best way to do it is to COME UP WITH A BETTER PRODUCT.
What part of this stops some company for finding a cure? Whoever does that will effectively destroy every competitor so why the hell not??

there is no fucking conspiracy here. stop being so bitter.

[Morbo]

When you're 40 or older and you start balding it's just a natural process of life.
Most of us are however here because we're prematurely balding. We are in our 20's, early 30's or even teenage years. We're in a stage of our life where our looks and more importantly our confidence is just a very important factor in making decisions and how we develop ourselves. We want to be the best we can be when we look for our potential life-partner or dream-job. We want to look young at the age we're at still young and not be regarded as 10 years older already.

TBH when I'm eventually 40, (hopefully) married, have kids, the job I wan't and suddenly a cure for baldness comes on the market; not sure if I'd still care.
If it's affortable, sure always a bonus, but I won't keep my sleep for it by then.

[StressedToTheBald]

Most of us are however here because we're prematurely balding. We are in our 20's, early 30's or even teenage years. We're in a stage of our life where our looks and more importantly our confidence is just a very important factor in making decisions and how we develop ourselves. We want to be the best we can be when we look for our potential life-partner or dream-job. We want to look young at the age we're at still young and not be regarded as 10 years older already.


Well said. Nature has been cruel to us, its not right that teens or us in 20s or 30s have the hair like old men in their 80s. It is about selfconfidence. Although not a disease - it feels like one and it kills confidence for sure.

[clandestine]

you stupid idiot... read my previous post.[...]Whoever does that will effectively destroy every competitor so why the hell not??[...]there is no fucking conspiracy here. stop being so bitter.

Wow. Learn how to debate with respect for others, or get the fuck off these forums.

[2020]

Wow. Learn how to debate with respect for others, or get the fuck off these forums.

I'm just tired of the crap he's posting...

[Seb89]

you stupid idiot... read my previous post.

What do you mean by HAIR INDUSTRY!? Hair industry is just a term for a group of companies that specialize in hair. Those companies operate INDIVIDUALLY, they COMPETE!
A dollar earned by Propecia is in theory a dollar loss for Rogaine and every other company that's part of the "hair industry". It's in their BEST INTEREST to come up with something better than Propecia to steer all that money flow to them and the best way to do it is to COME UP WITH A BETTER PRODUCT.
What part of this stops some company for finding a cure? Whoever does that will effectively destroy every competitor so why the hell not??

there is no fucking conspiracy here. stop being so bitter.

I have to agree with this post and the logic.

Infairness, if one company comes up with the ultimate solution, the others are screwed, end of story, their all out of business. Where as the other one, will make more money than bill gates.

[gmonasco]

A dollar earned by Propecia is in theory a dollar loss for Rogaine and every other company that's part of the "hair industry".

Not really, because they aren't mutually exclusive treatments.

[Seb89]

When you're 40 or older and you start balding it's just a natural process of life.
Most of us are however here because we're prematurely balding. We are in our 20's, early 30's or even teenage years. We're in a stage of our life where our looks and more importantly our confidence is just a very important factor in making decisions and how we develop ourselves. We want to be the best we can be when we look for our potential life-partner or dream-job. We want to look young at the age we're at still young and not be regarded as 10 years older already.

TBH when I'm eventually 40, (hopefully) married, have kids, the job I wan't and suddenly a cure for baldness comes on the market; not sure if I'd still care.
If it's affortable, sure always a bonus, but I won't keep my sleep for it by then.

Completely and 100% with you on everything you just typed.

Now is the prime time to be going out with freinds meeting women and just enjoying oursleves, this bloody thing holds us all back in so many ways.

Try getting a hot 22 year old interested in a guy with a dodgy hairline. Like trying to remove blood from a stone.

People say its on the inside that counts. Utter rubbish. This is 2012 and looks are just as important as personality to pretty much everyone these days. Every magazine women buy focus on what people look like.

Fuck me, just depressed myself.

[gmonasco]

In fairness, if one company comes up with the ultimate solution, the others are screwed, end of story, their all out of business. Where as the other one, will make more money than bill gates.

I'd say it's rather unlikely one company is suddenly going to come out with an "ultimate" hair loss solution ahead of everyone else. It's more likely that over the course of years, a number of different companies will successively introduce incrementally better treatments than the previous "best" treatment.

[Seb89]

Obviously a very hypothetical scenario, but it could happen.

[Morbo]

I'd say it's rather unlikely one company is suddenly going to come out with an "ultimate" hair loss solution ahead of everyone else. It's more likely that over the course of years, a number of different companies will successively introduce incrementally better treatments than the previous "best" treatment.

Yeah that's what I believe as well.

[gmonasco]

Try getting a hot 22 year old interested in a guy with a dodgy hairline. Like trying to remove blood from a stone.

Maybe "hot 22-year-olds" shouldn't be your target group, then.

Every magazine women buy focus on what people look like.

Actually, women's magazines focus on what women look like -- in general, women have very different standards for judging attractiveness then men do. That's why, for example, fashion advertisers use photos of more muscular men in men’s magazines than they do in women’s magazines -- men tend to think women find bulkier men more attractive than they really do.

[gmonasco]

Obviously a very hypothetical scenario, but it could happen.

I think it's much less hypothetical than the notion that we're going to jump from having no real effective hair loss treatment at all to having the "ultimate solution."

[Seb89]

Maybe "hot 22-year-olds" shouldn't be your target group, then.
------------------------
When you have driven a ferrari you dont want to go back to a fiesta, or something along those lines.



Actually, women's magazines focus on what women look like -- in general, women have very different standards for judging attractiveness then men do. That's why, for example, fashion advertisers use photos of more muscular men in men’s magazines than they do in women’s magazines -- men tend to think women find bulkier men more attractive than they really do.
==============================
Not true, my Ex bought plenty of those magazines, men feature as heavily in them as women.

[Seb89]

I think it's much less hypothetical than the notion that we're going to jump from having no real effective hair loss treatment at all to having the "ultimate solution."

Who knows what could pop up in the next couple of years, were in 2012. Plenty of people trying to do something about it and making progress, albeit slow and steady. How about a bit of optimism.

[sausage]

you stupid idiot... read my previous post.

What do you mean by HAIR INDUSTRY!? Hair industry is just a term for a group of companies that specialize in hair. Those companies operate INDIVIDUALLY, they COMPETE!

Thats what he means by hair industry, its pretty obvious, what did you think he meant, and like he said they are making loads of money.

Its pretty simple.

[2020]

Thats what he means by hair industry, its pretty obvious, what did you think he meant, and like he said they are making loads of money.

Its pretty simple.

what do you mean?

[Morbo]

Anyone still holding out hope for some type of replicel data q1 2012?

They said April 2012 in one of their recent announcements, so the only thing can do is wait and see. Some consider it the moment of truth, since these results will confirm if they can actually grow any hair on a human's head, which we still don't know till this point.

Edit: sorry actually replied to an older post, didn't see I was still on the first page of this thread.

[WashedOut]

They said April 2012 in one of their recent announcements, so the only thing can do is wait and see. Some consider it the moment of truth, since these results will confirm if they can actually grow any hair on a human's head, which we still don't know till this point.

Edit: sorry actually replied to an older post, didn't see I was still on the first page of this thread.

Good sign so far that they are 2 months away from when they are supposed to release info and they are sticking to that date without any backtracking. Even if they grow a little bit of hair somewhere would still be good for me because it proves it's possible to grow hairs on a human and would serve as a proof of concept to try and enhance.

[sausage]

I just wish they could get on with it and inject 3x as much.

How long do you think it will take them to build a facility to create this cure in large doses, open many clinics around the globe, etc etc.

That alone would surely take a long time.

[Maradona]

I just wish they could get on with it and inject 3x as much.

How long do you think it will take them to build a facility to create this cure in large doses, open many clinics around the globe, etc etc.

That alone would surely take a long time.

Hopefully spencer can help us out and open up clinics in los angeles/new york.

[2020]

I just wish they could get on with it and inject 3x as much.

How long do you think it will take them to build a facility to create this cure in large doses, open many clinics around the globe, etc etc.

That alone would surely take a long time.

I'm pretty sure they have no real interest in building facilities, hiring people and such...
As soon as their treatment is perfected, Replicel will sell it to a highest bidder who hopefully already has clinics around the country

[StressedToTheBald]

I just wish they could get on with it and inject 3x as much.

How long do you think it will take them to build a facility to create this cure in large doses, open many clinics around the globe, etc etc.

That alone would surely take a long time.

If it works out, no need for special clinics.. why not mass produce the stuff and just ship to existing hair clinics and surgeons..

[Kiwi]

I'm pretty sure they have no real interest in building facilities, hiring people and such...
As soon as their treatment is perfected, Replicel will sell it to a highest bidder who hopefully already has clinics around the country

You are an idiot.

You do not know anything and you have no inside knowledge. You are speculating out of your ass.

[Kiwi]

You are an idiot.

You do not know anything and you have no inside knowledge. You are speculating out of your ass.

Hey Kiwi that was a bit mean!

What I meant to say was that if you had the cure for baldness (or even 1/100th of one) you'd probably not sell. Rather you'd become a multi billion dollar company and be the kind of company that buys companies... in the rather flippant "you don't know what the fuck you're talking about" fashion ;)

[Kiwi]

If it works out, no need for special clinics.. why not mass produce the stuff and just ship to existing hair clinics and surgeons..

Now there's a comment that makes sense.

I've spoken to a few HT docs who've already acknowledged that if and when this movement happens they will add it to the list of products that they already offer.

You need to be a skilled doctor to administer these new solutions. Somebody is sticking a needle into your head and injecting fairy dust into the place where your hair follicles live. They need to have steady fingers :P

[sausage]

If some cure does turn up that involves needing to go to a clinic of some sort then those phone booking lines are going to collapse, their website would get more traffic than Facebook and would probably collapse too, their will be bald men banging on the windows of the clinics demanding treatment, baldies will be so desperate for the treatment those that could not afford it will steal, borrow, barter to get this stuff.

[Losing_It]

The way I understand it, a device will be used to inject the replicated cells back into the scalp. This eliminates human error. According to David Hall it will take about 45 minutes to do the entire scalp, but this I think depends on the skill of the person doing the procedure. With regard to actual facilities it is more tricky. For the time being samples will probably be send to central facilities, the culture of cells is not something your dermatologist would be able to do in his office. This of course depends entirely whether the procedure actually works.

As I understand histogen is in a better place to mass produce their treatment and ship it to many places as possible, physicians, dermatologist. I imagine a device will also be used to deliver the treatment that sorts out depth of delivery etc.

Just my two cents of speculation

[jpm]

when are we expecting a Replicel update? what kind of things do you think they will update us about?

[25 going on 65]

when are we expecting a Replicel update? what kind of things do you think they will update us about?

My understanding is that they will report trial results by the end of next month. I believe the trial was focused on patient safety, but if the results also demonstrated effectiveness for hair loss, I see no reason why they wouldn't report that as well.

[Tacola]

Does anyone know if this treatment is anything to talk about? They say that they will have results by mid 2012.

http://www.inquisitr.com/141589/baldness-cure-being-tested-by-maker-of-botox/

[2020]

Does anyone know if this treatment is anything to talk about? They say that they will have results by mid 2012.

http://www.inquisitr.com/141589/baldness-cure-being-tested-by-maker-of-botox/

They're talking about Latisse which is supposed to be a much better rogaine... someone on another forum already tried Latisse and it didn't work for them.