Tocotrienol (vitamin E) may reverse male pattern baldness

[clandestine]

Edit: Accidentally posted this to 'Cutting Edge / Future Treatments' forum when it should probably be in the 'Hair Loss Treatments' forum. Perhaps a moderator can move it? Couldn't figure out how to delete and repost. Thanks!

Found this claim in a wikipedia article;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baldness

"An eight month study performed at the School of Pharmaceutical Sciences at the University of Science Malaysia showed daily supplements of a patented tocotrienol (vitamin E) complex may increase hair growth in people with male pattern baldness by 42 percent.[56]"

Here is information regarding the study conducted;

http://www.tocotrienol.org/images/stories/pdf_upload/Magazines/tsuprabio%20hair%20loss%20prevention%20and%20beyon d.pdf

"An 8-month study was performed at the School of Pharmaceutical Sciences, University of Science Malaysia with 28 volunteers aged 18 to 59 years with mild to moderately severe hair loss.

Volunteers supplemented with Tocomin SupraBio showed statistically significant higher hair counts postsupplementation (p<0.01). An average of 41.8% increase in the number of hair was observed after 8 months whereby

• 8 volunteers (40.0%) showed >50%
hair growth
• 1 volunteer (5.0%) showed 25-50%
hair growth
• 9 volunteers (45.0%) showed
10-25% hair growth
• 1 volunteer (5.0%) showed <10%
hair growth"

Article regarding the study results;

http://www.nutraingredients-usa.com/Research/Vitamin-E-may-reverse-male-pattern-baldness-Study

"Daily supplements of a patented tocotrienol (vitamin E) complex may increase hair growth in people with male pattern baldness by 42 per cent.

Hair coverage, measured by counting the number of hairs in a pre-selected 2x2 cm area, was significantly increased by an average of 41.8 per cent in the tocotrienol group, with eight volunteers experiencing greater than 50 per cent growth."

Additional source;

http://www.naturalnews.com/028050_vitamin_E_hair.html

"Vitamin E helps with the growth of capillaries. When there are more capillaries, the circulation improves and it is thought that the improved circulation to the scalp is the trigger for preventing hair loss."

Thoughts?

[Thinning@30]

This is intriguing. But before anyone runs out to the drugstore to buy a whole shopping cart full of vitamin E pills, notice that the study claims that the participants were given a patented vitamin E complex. I'm curious to know what was in the complex other than vitamin E. Who funded the study? I'm also unsure of what to make of the fact that the study was performed at a university in Malaysia. How is that institution regarded within the global academic community? Also, did measurements count only terminal hairs? A 41.0 percent increase in terminal hairs seems like it should be enough to be cosmetically significant. Are there photographs? I think more information and independent verification are needed.

[HairTalk]

The number (average re-growth>40%) sounds impressive, but the single before–after image published would be lucky to underwhelm a person — it's likely just lighting and angle, but I think the subject actually may be showing less hair in the "after" shot...

[Thinning@30]

The number (average re-growth>40%) sounds impressive, but the single before–after image published would be lucky to underwhelm a person — it's likely just lighting and angle, but I think the subject actually may be showing less hair in the "after" shot...

I saw the single photograph too. I don't think the picture (figures 2 and 3) is referenced in the article, so I don't what it is trying show, but there appears to be no growth at all. The only difference I see is that the hair looks wet in the before picture--a well known tactic of people selling snake oil hair loss cures.

[mrmanns]

Couldn't help but registering and commenting on this thread

I've been a lurker

Well it does grow hair, literally

If you shave your beard, it'll grow back 5x as faster and thicker (This is how you will actually see first hand it can grow hair)

Us bodybuilders use it

Here are the two top toco products

Jarrow Formulas, Inc.
Toco-Sorb

and

TOCO-8 - Primordial Performance

It also has awesome fat burning attributes to it, boost metabolism.

I've been on toco for about a year now

[HairTalk]

Couldn't help but registering and commenting on this thread

I've been a lurker

Well it does grow hair, literally

If you shave your beard, it'll grow back 5x as faster and thicker (This is how you will actually see first hand it can grow hair)

Us bodybuilders use it

Here are the two top toco products

Jarrow Formulas, Inc.
Toco-Sorb

and

TOCO-8 - Primordial Performance

It also has awesome fat burning attributes to it, boost metabolism.

I've been on toco for about a year now

Sounds more as if you may have registered to promote products.

[mrmanns]

Sounds more as if you may have registered to promote products.

uh no, if I wanted to promote I would of gave you a link

Plus those two companies compete with each other

[clandestine]

mrmanns; you make some interesting claims, if veritable. perhaps you could provide us with some photographic evidence? it does a world of difference, compared to claims made by written word.

[mrmanns]

mrmanns; you make some interesting claims, if veritable. perhaps you could provide us with some photographic evidence? it does a world of difference, compared to claims made by written word.

You can do a simple google search, people who take Steroids use Toco-8 it's stronger than tocosorb. So Imagine how strong it is, they take it because they're taking high levels of DHT


EDISON, NJ***8212;Results of a human clinical trial evaluating the effect of a tocotrienol-tocopherol complex (as Tocomin®SupraBio***8482;, from Carotech) on hair-loss prevention has been published in the journal Tropical Life Sciences Research (Dec. 2010; 21(2):91-99). The randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial was conducted at the School of Pharmaceutical Sciences, University of Science Malaysia.

The study involved 38 male and female volunteers who suffered hair loss; they were given either mixed tocotrienol softgel capsules containing 50mg Tocomin®SupraBio***8482; (n=21) or a placebo (n=17) twice a day for eight months. At baseline, four months (16th week) of supplementation and eight months (32nd week), researchers measured hair count and hair weight over a designated scalp area of 2x2 cm, and recorded obvious hair thinning.

After statistically analyzing the collected data, researchers found 95 percent of volunteers in the tocotrienol group (19 of 20 who actually finished the trial) experienced hair growth. Of these, 40 percent (8 volunteers) had more than 50 percent hair growth, 5 percent (1 volunteer) had 25 to 50 percent hair growth, 45 percent (9 volunteers) had 10 to 25 percent hair growth, and 5 percent had less than 10 percent hair growth. Only one volunteer in this group had a slight decrease in the number of hairs. In the placebo group, only one volunteer experienced more than 20 percent hair growth, seven volunteers (46.7 percent) had negligible increases, while the remaining 7 volunteers (46.7 percent) had a decrease in the number of hairs. Overall, the results indicated supplementation with 100 mg/d Tocomin SupraBio for eight months increased hair growth by 34.5 percent and resulted in a significant increase in the number of hairs, compared to the placebo group. There was no significant difference between he groups in the area of hair weight.

The researchers concluded tocotrienol***8217;s effect on hair loss could be due to its potent antioxidant activity on lipid peroxidation and oxidative stress in the scalp, which can contribute to hair loss.

***8220;The million dollar hair growth product market is currently being dominated by pharmaceutical companies that require stringent compliance on usage yet not without undesirable side effects,***8221; said WH Leong, vice president, Carotech Inc., who noted Tocomin®SupraBio***8482; is naturally extracted from virgin crude palm oil and FDA-approved GRAS. ***8220;The bioenhanced Tocomin®SupraBio***8482; natural full spectrum palm tocotrienol complex ensures an average of 250-precent increase in tocotrienol oral absorption which greatly assisted in delivering a consistent supply of tocotrienols to different tissues.***8221; Leong also noted the US Patent and Trademark Office has granted a patent (Patent No. 7,211,274 ) for Tocomin®SupraBio***8482; as a novel hair growth formulation due to its proven efficacy.

[clandestine]

mrmanns; are you yourself suffering from hair loss in any way, shape, or form?

[mrmanns]

mrmanns; are you yourself suffering from hair loss in any way, shape, or form?


I can tell you I stopped it DEAD in it's tracks for a good year now. Taking Saw Palmetto and Toco. Sometimes Toco 8 or Tocosorb depending on how much I can afford at the time

Toco is really one of the best natural supplements you can take in my opinion try it, you can really tell it works by how your beard grows back. It has something that just makes hair grow like grass. Well atleast the hair you still have, but it does indeed grow new hairs.

I'm surprised none of these snake oil salesmen had made something into liquid form yet for the scalp

[sanook]

First time poster here... those % figures sound impressive. Almost too good to be true?

I wouldn't mind trying this out, but I'm not exactly sure what to purchase or how much to take on a daily basis? If I go to a pharmacy do i just ask for some vitamin E tablets that are the tocotrienol type?

[sanook]

I can tell you I stopped it DEAD in it's tracks for a good year now. Taking Saw Palmetto and Toco. Sometimes Toco 8 or Tocosorb depending on how much I can afford at the time

Toco is really one of the best natural supplements you can take in my opinion try it, you can really tell it works by how your beard grows back. It has something that just makes hair grow like grass. Well atleast the hair you still have, but it does indeed grow new hairs.

I'm surprised none of these snake oil salesmen had made something into liquid form yet for the scalp

Do you take anything else for your hair loss, such as propecia/finisteride/minoxidil etc?

[mrmanns]

Do you take anything else for your hair loss, such as propecia/finisteride/minoxidil etc?

I notice that it works better without minoxidil, all I've noticed from minoxidil and all those other products is that it clogs your pores. Sure you will gain but, from me testing things out before I found toco. All those other things what it does is, makes you shed faster from all the touching you do to it.

Also I've notice that hairlosss has to do with hormonal changes and something going on inside your body.

Ive never had serious baldness but I stopped it dead in its tracks and I can tell you it stopped shedding 100%

Dealt with it and maintained for 2 years before I got on toco and it was by mistake too

I body build and found the product while buying workout supplements

I don't take steroids but, it's a very popular product they use to combat DHT levels

Toco is just a really great great thing you can take for yourself in general

I can tell you things like Resveratrol have nothing on Toco

You can actually see the affects Toco is making on your hair growth in just one week and also how it burns fat and lowers cholesterol

I'm telling you, time how long it takes for your beard to grow in one week

And once on toco time it again, your beard will grow 5x as faster

Thats how you can tell how it's affecting hair growth

[mrmanns]

First time poster here... those % figures sound impressive. Almost too good to be true?

I wouldn't mind trying this out, but I'm not exactly sure what to purchase or how much to take on a daily basis? If I go to a pharmacy do i just ask for some vitamin E tablets that are the tocotrienol type?

This is what most toco makers put in their product

Supplement Facts
Serving Size: 1 serving scoop = 630mg
Servings per container: 60


Amount Per Serving
%DV*

Mixed Tocotrienols/Tocopherols (Tocomin®)
130mg**


d-alpha-tocotrienol
30mg**


d-beta-tocotrienol
4mg**


d-gamma-tocotrienol
52mg**


d-delta-tocotrienol
14mg**


d-alpha-tocopherols
30mg†


d-beta-tocopherols
500mcg**


d-gamma-tocopherols
315mcg**


d-delta-tocopherols
31mcg**


Naturally Occurring Phyto-nutrients
30mg**


Plant Squalene
22mg**


Mixed Plant Sterols



(beta-sitosterol campesterol stigmasterol)
8mg**


Mixed Carotenoids



(A-carotene B-carotene Y-carotene)
200mcg**


Co-Enzyme Q10
10mcg**

[mrmanns]

I just want to give some of you people some good news, my bald spot was about maybe half an inch wide where it was serious and maybe 1.5 inches wide where I could see fading

I just cut my hair short today and the bald spot is about 85% GONE

This is the first time where I cut my hair short to about 1 inch long in 3 years

If anything natural can atleast help you regrow hair this is it

This is what I take on a daily basis

A Multivitamin
1 Saw Palmetto Tablet
and 2 Tocosorbs or 1 Toco 8

And I also use a natural shampoo with thickening agents

DO NOT use the shower head to clean your hair

I've notice showering does more harm to the area where you're trying to regrow

What you need to do is, fill up your bathtub and lean your head back under water. If you don't have a bathtub, then try to come up with something where you can do what I said.

What you want to achieve is having your hair combed back naturally by the water so you can easily apply shampoo to your hair. Do the same thing again to rinse your hair

Also use a blowdryer to dry your hair

Do not in any form touch your hair when wet

These tips are only usefull if your hair is longer then 1 inch long

These are the methods I used to regrow

[BoSox]

Where can I get tocotrienol? Websites state that this is no normal vitamin E supplement.

[mrmanns]

Where can I get tocotrienol? Websites state that this is no normal vitamin E supplement.

You're just going to have to do a search on tocosorb or toco-8 before people think I'm promoting which I'm not.

And you're right, it's no normal vitamin E. It's a hair growing machine

[BoSox]

From the reviews toco8 is def a supplement I can benefit from. Just ordered some, I will give it a few months and see what happens.

[mrmanns]

From the reviews toco8 is def a supplement I can benefit from. Just ordered some, I will give it a few months and see what happens.

Toco 8 is definitely potent, watch how fast a shaven beard grows back. You'll see it the first week you're on it

I'll say give it about 3 months for you see real hair growth on your scalp, before then you'll see little fuzz hairs growing

[PacWantsHair]

Toco 8 is definitely potent, watch how fast a shaven beard grows back. You'll see it the first week you're on it

I'll say give it about 3 months for you see real hair growth on your scalp, before then you'll see little fuzz hairs growing

Can I try this Toco-8 while I'm taking Propecia? This stuff sounds pretty interesting. I've been on Propecia for about a year now and I don't want to get off of it - can I still take this Toco-8 stuff?

Thanks..

[nrj]

I just want to give some of you people some good news, my bald spot was about maybe half an inch wide where it was serious and maybe 1.5 inches wide where I could see fading

I just cut my hair short today and the bald spot is about 85% GONE

This is the first time where I cut my hair short to about 1 inch long in 3 years

If anything natural can atleast help you regrow hair this is it

This is what I take on a daily basis

A Multivitamin
1 Saw Palmetto Tablet
and 2 Tocosorbs or 1 Toco 8

And I also use a natural shampoo with thickening agents

DO NOT use the shower head to clean your hair

I've notice showering does more harm to the area where you're trying to regrow

What you need to do is, fill up your bathtub and lean your head back under water. If you don't have a bathtub, then try to come up with something where you can do what I said.

What you want to achieve is having your hair combed back naturally by the water so you can easily apply shampoo to your hair. Do the same thing again to rinse your hair

Also use a blowdryer to dry your hair

Do not in any form touch your hair when wet

These tips are only usefull if your hair is longer then 1 inch long

These are the methods I used to regrow

Dont touch your hair? how will you clean and unclog your scalp of dirt and different particles?

i also wanna see some pics if you have mrmanns.

thanks.

there arent many people who sign onto a forum just to say a product has worked for them.

[mrmanns]

Dont touch your hair? how will you clean and unclog your scalp of dirt and different particles?

i also wanna see some pics if you have mrmanns.

thanks.

there arent many people who sign onto a forum just to say a product has worked for them.

Well I'm just posting what worked for me, getting your scalp moist and wet is enough to clean it

You don't want to put pressure on your scalp, you just want to minimize hair falling out of your scalp to begin with. And that goes the same for combing, try to not put too much pressure

And if I post pictures all you'll see if a full set of hair. I was never that bald to begin with, but like I told everybody I was fortunate enough to stop it in it's tracks before it got serious

I say my baldspot was a nickel wide and 2 nickels wide where it was fading. And I always use to grow my hair long so it was unnoticeable. It was at the crown of my head

[mrmanns]

Can I try this Toco-8 while I'm taking Propecia? This stuff sounds pretty interesting. I've been on Propecia for about a year now and I don't want to get off of it - can I still take this Toco-8 stuff?

Thanks..

It's natural so I'll say go right ahead

And like I keep telling peopl here I'm not bsing, shave your beard if you have one. And while on a toco product watch for yourself how thick and quick your beard grows back

That's how I myself kept taking toco, I noticed it was a hair growing machine

[mrmanns]

It also stops ingrown hairs on your face since it grows hair so fast that the skin doesn't even have time to heal over some after you shave

You shall see for yourselves, post your results in here

[eqvist]

Why is this thread so dead? Dosn´t people think this could work?
http://www.hairloss-research.org/UpdateTrocotrienols4-08.html

There must be more people that have something to say about this!

[BoSox]

I just thought what if the pills I got are just sugar tablets? Is there a specific site i should be ordering these vitamins from?

[Thinning@30]

Why is this thread so dead? Dosn´t people think this could work?
http://www.hairloss-research.org/Upd...enols4-08.html

There must be more people that have something to say about this!

The problem is that there are no three phase clinical studies showing effectiveness. There seems to be only one study conducted at a university in Malaysia (not sure what to make of that). The only photograph shows no growth and uses a well-known tactic of snake oil sellers (hair is wet in one photo, dry in the other). Even if it promotes hair growth generally, there is insufficient evidence to suggest that it can prevent or reverse alopecia. This is not to say that the product is of no benefit to hair loss sufferers, but without more evidence, this just feels like TRX2 all over again.

[2020]

uhm are you all really into this? :rolleyes:


all of the posts from other hair loss forums says that this is garbage and it will have ZERO effect on your MPB...

what is going on? is this just marketing from toco people?

[clandestine]

perhaps you could link to the other forums denouncing the validity of this treatment (toco-8 specifically)? some sources would help.

[2020]

https://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&safe=off&rlz=1C1CHKZ_enUS440US440&q=site%3A************.com%2Finteract%2F+%22toco-8%22+OR+%22Tocotrienol+%22&oq=site%3A************.com%2Finteract%2F+%22toco-8%22+OR+%22Tocotrienol+%22&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=138539l139443l0l139516l7l7l0l6l0l0l197l197l 0.1l1l0 (https://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&safe=off&rlz=1C1CHKZ_enUS440US440&q=site%3A************.com%2Finteract%2F+%22toco-8%22+OR+%22Tocotrienol+%22&oq=site%3A************.com%2Finteract%2F+%22toco-8%22+OR+%22Tocotrienol+%22&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=138539l139443l0l139516l7l7l0l6l0l0l197l197l 0.1l1l0)

no one so far reported anything positive(hair-wise) from taking this toco-8...

also: the study where they supposedly got good results was conducted with ONLY 11 PEOPLE. no further studies were conducted since..

the patent was obtained years ago so i'm sure we would have known by now if it did anything positive to our hair

[BoSox]

I'm always willing to try, besides it's just a vitamin. Regardless of how effective this is, I'm desperate. Won't hurt to try.

[clandestine]

I'm always willing to try, besides it's just a vitamin. Regardless of how effective this is, I'm desperate. Won't hurt to try.

True. Keep us updated if you decide to follow through.

[goldbondmafia]

mrmanns,

Im only 20, noticed my hair thinning partially over the top and crown when I started lifting weights more intensely..had some bloodwork done which showed I have high levels of DHT ..im assuming the heavy diet of protein/carbs and heavy lifting has something to do with the DHT levels..anyways here are a few pics (taken under ceiling window with light coming through)..

Ive currently been using emu oil on my scalp in the morning and night, saw palmetto 2x daily, orange triad multi vitamins, biotin, nizoral and good regular shampoo & conditioner.

Few questions:

1) Does the toco cause shedding or any weird changes to your hair as you said it makes hair "fuzzy" or "grassy" at first?

2) Any side effects

3) Which is better: Toco 8 or Toco-Sorb? On BB.com they sell Toco Sorb, im assuming this is the one you use? Cant find Toco 8 online anywhere..

http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/jarrow/tocosorb.html

4) Anything else bodybuilders use that are natural DHT blockers other than this and saw palmetto?

Hopefully you can answer these questions it would be greatly appreciated thanks boss

[mrmanns]

mrmanns,

Im only 20, noticed my hair thinning partially over the top and crown when I started lifting weights more intensely..had some bloodwork done which showed I have high levels of DHT ..im assuming the heavy diet of protein/carbs and heavy lifting has something to do with the DHT levels..anyways here are a few pics (taken under ceiling window with light coming through)..

Ive currently been using emu oil on my scalp in the morning and night, saw palmetto 2x daily, orange triad multi vitamins, biotin, nizoral and good regular shampoo & conditioner.

Few questions:

1) Does the toco cause shedding or any weird changes to your hair as you said it makes hair "fuzzy" or "grassy" at first?

2) Any side effects

3) Which is better: Toco 8 or Toco-Sorb? On BB.com they sell Toco Sorb, im assuming this is the one you use? Cant find Toco 8 online anywhere..

http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/jarrow/tocosorb.html

4) Anything else bodybuilders use that are natural DHT blockers other than this and saw palmetto?

Hopefully you can answer these questions it would be greatly appreciated thanks boss

I noticed TocoSorb works better, that's the one I'm currently on. It says it has 3x greater absorption since it's in pill Form. Toco 8 is in powder form

I think something in pill form works better since it isn't being digested instantly by your body

And Yeah I workout just like you, just follow my steps. You are in your 20s like me, you will stop it dead in it's tracks

I stopped it and I just take Saw Palmetto for DHT and a Shampoo that has it in it aswell

It's all hormones in your body that causes hairloss, Toco controls whatever it is that makes you lose hair

[mrmanns]

https://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&safe=off&rlz=1C1CHKZ_enUS440US440&q=site%3A************.com%2Finteract%2F+%22toco-8%22+OR+%22Tocotrienol+%22&oq=site%3A************.com%2Finteract%2F+%22toco-8%22+OR+%22Tocotrienol+%22&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=138539l139443l0l139516l7l7l0l6l0l0l197l197l 0.1l1l0

no one so far reported anything positive(hair-wise) from taking this toco-8...

also: the study where they supposedly got good results was conducted with ONLY 11 PEOPLE. no further studies were conducted since..

the patent was obtained years ago so i'm sure we would have known by now if it did anything positive to our hair

You are a shill

[goldbondmafia]

I noticed TocoSorb works better, that's the one I'm currently on. It says it has 3x greater absorption since it's in pill Form. Toco 8 is in powder form

I think something in pill form works better since it isn't being digested instantly by your body

And Yeah I workout just like you, just follow my steps. You are in your 20s like me, you will stop it dead in it's tracks

I stopped it and I just take Saw Palmetto for DHT and a Shampoo that has it in it aswell

It's all hormones in your body that causes hairloss, Toco controls whatever it is that makes you lose hair

Awesome so the link I posted would be the one to buy then from bb.com? BTW which brand of Saw Palmetto do you use, ive been using Organika but I feel like there could be much better brands.

Was your hair loss/thinning similar to mine, better or worse?

thanks for the response.

[mrmanns]

Awesome so the link I posted would be the one to buy then from bb.com? BTW which brand of Saw Palmetto do you use, ive been using Organika but I feel like there could be much better brands.

Was your hair loss/thinning similar to mine, better or worse?

thanks for the response.

Yeah it was kinda like that but at the crown of my head

And I take Swanson Vitamins Saw Palmetto

I use to take 2 Palmettos a day but I cut back to one and I take 2 tocosorbs

1 after breakfast and another after lunch

I also add a multivitamin once a day

[goldbondmafia]

Yeah it was kinda like that but at the crown of my head

And I take Swanson Vitamins Saw Palmetto

I use to take 2 Palmettos a day but I cut back to one and I take 2 tocosorbs

1 after breakfast and another after lunch

I also add a multivitamin once a day

Makes sense, I generally take the saw palmetto once in morning and one before bed so it stays in my system equally.

ill try the toco-sorb for sure, gonna see if they have it at supplement store here if not ill order it on BB.com thanks boss

[goldbondmafia]

btw did u notice any actual growth of thin hairs or improvement in the thickness of your crown or did the toco just stabilize? How long did this take for you?

[Conpecia]

Just bought some, the Vitacost Tocomin Suprabio, 120 softgels. For 22 bucks I figured what the hell. I'm currently a NW2.5 (what I am euphemistically dubbing the "elven" hairline), with a slowly thinning crown that has been stabilized pretty well over the last 5 years with Propecia. Also using Nizoral 2x/wk. No minox as of yet. I'll report back once the supply ends, or if I see noticeable improvement before then. Not very optimistic (just seems a little too easy), but the cost/benefit analysis leans heavily in favor of giving it a shot. Maybe this can hold me over until Gho's technique spreads or Replicel/Histogen/Aderans/Follica hits the market. At my current rate of loss I have about two good years left, maybe three.

[mrmanns]

btw did u notice any actual growth of thin hairs or improvement in the thickness of your crown or did the toco just stabilize? How long did this take for you?

Heck yeah, makes it thicker and grows hairs

I've been on it since Late 2010 early 2011

I didn't realize how much it grew my hair until I cut it short just a week ago messing with this thread

But I can tell you I noticed it getting thicker in just 3 months in

[mrmanns]

Just bought some, the Vitacost Tocomin Suprabio, 120 softgels. For 22 bucks I figured what the hell. I'm currently a NW2.5 (what I am euphemistically dubbing the "elven" hairline), with a slowly thinning crown that has been stabilized pretty well over the last 5 years with Propecia. Also using Nizoral 2x/wk. No minox as of yet. I'll report back once the supply ends, or if I see noticeable improvement before then. Not very optimistic (just seems a little too easy), but the cost/benefit analysis leans heavily in favor of giving it a shot. Maybe this can hold me over until Gho's technique spreads or Replicel/Histogen/Aderans/Follica hits the market. At my current rate of loss I have about two good years left, maybe three.

This is how you're gonna know it has something that just grows hair like a machine

Check out how when you shave your beard, how fast it grows back. Also how thick, your hairs are gonna come out like they had something to eat. Hairs will comeout like its 2 hairs in 1

[mrmanns]

I took out one of the thick hairs from my beard to show you how while on toco, it grows hairs so thick that. Some of my beard hairs grow like they're double

[BoSox]

That's good for your beard, but what does it do for the hairs that are important.. you know, the ones on your head? :/

[mrmanns]

That's good for your beard, but what does it do for the hairs that are important.. you know, the ones on your head? :/

I'm just showing people an example of how it grows hair

It will do the same for your head

[clandestine]

Just wanted to say we appreciate your input and participation in this thread, mrmanns.

[mrmanns]

Just wanted to say we appreciate your input and participation in this thread, mrmanns.

No problem, thanks for posting this. I thought I was in the minority about the potential of Toco. Glad you posted it

[UK_]

I have one important truth to offer this entire thread:

LOL.

[Conpecia]

Manns, I'm not sure all hair is equal. How's it gonna work against hair on the head that can't fight DHT is my real question. And most people around here are asking whether it will add new hair in bald spots on the head. The beard growth analogy can't answer those questions because not only is beard hair a different type of hair than head hair, it's also almost universally DHT resistant. But even if it can only make my existing head hairs thicker for a while, that'll justify the purchase. I'm really intrigued by the study more than anything else. Really good results.

[Conpecia]

I have one important truth to offer this entire thread:

LOL.

Elaborate, if you will, for the Americans.

[PatientlyWaiting]

I was in to using vitamins for hair regrowth last year but I gave up on that because all it did was make my existing hair grow faster, not give me more hair or thicken my existing hair.

[cstella]

I took out one of the thick hairs from my beard to show you how while on toco, it grows hairs so thick that. Some of my beard hairs grow like they're double

that thing looks like a chocolate jimmie

[mrmanns]

A lot of shills on this thread with agendas

Toco is proven to grow hair and stops hairloss in it's tracks

If you want to BS people about it and feel good then go right ahead

I don't lose anything, but others you con saying Toco and Vitamins don't work do

Toco is the real deal and when taken with a multivitamin and saw palmetto works even better

There's alot of money to be LOST by shills who obviously have an agenda with almost 1,000 post on this site

Anybody who has a high amount of post like that are obviously shilling

You would think they found the "cure" by being on this forum so long

Just try Toco for yourselves people, you will see for your self

It's very beneficial for you

Also some people need to research how The GOV is trying to restrict Vitamins and take them off the market completely

They do it because it's beneficial for you in many ways

So shills on this thread with agendas don't phase me, I know it's all about money and Toco doesn't even cost much. Thats a threat to whatever treatments they're tryna sell

Grows hair like grass makes it thicker, stops ingrown hairs, good for your eyes, lowers cholesterol, burns fat, builds muscle etc

It's not "The One" but it's one of the best things you can put in your body

[mrmanns]

I have one important truth to offer this entire thread:

LOL.

So come on big shot

[mrmanns]

that thing looks like a chocolate jimmie

It does lol, some hairs grow out like that. Really thick, it's like 2 hairs in one

[mrmanns]

Amazing I've found pictures from 3 years ago in my email when I was considering quick work done on my crown. They told me to send them shots for an evaluation, I'll do a before and after shot today and will show you

[clandestine]

Awesome, can't wait.

[greatjob!]

A lot of shills on this thread with agendas

Toco is proven to grow hair and stops hairloss in it's tracks

If you want to BS people about it and feel good then go right ahead

I don't lose anything, but others you con saying Toco and Vitamins don't work do

Toco is the real deal and when taken with a multivitamin and saw palmetto works even better

There's alot of money to be LOST by shills who obviously have an agenda with almost 1,000 post on this site

Anybody who has a high amount of post like that are obviously shilling

You would think they found the "cure" by being on this forum so long

Just try Toco for yourselves people, you will see for your self

It's very beneficial for you

Also some people need to research how The GOV is trying to restrict Vitamins and take them off the market completely

They do it because it's beneficial for you in many ways

So shills on this thread with agendas don't phase me, I know it's all about money and Toco doesn't even cost much. Thats a threat to whatever treatments they're tryna sell

Grows hair like grass makes it thicker, stops ingrown hairs, good for your eyes, lowers cholesterol, burns fat, builds muscle etc

It's not "The One" but it's one of the best things you can put in your body

Dude seriously relax!! Do you even know what the word shill means? Cuz if by shill you are referring to a swindler who acts as an enthusiastic customer to entice or encourage others to purchase a product, you are the only person in this thread who qualifies as a shill. All your posts sound like a damn infomercial for toco, but you haven't showed any proof.

With that being said, I hope you do post before and after pics. I really hope toco is a miracle vitamin, but I won't hold my breath.

P.s.- before you start calling me a shill bla, bla, bla. I hope you will notice I have never promoted any product or service, and therefore do not qualify as a "shill"

[mrmanns]

P.s.- before you start calling me a shill bla, bla, bla. I hope you will notice I have never promoted any product or service, and therefore do not qualify as a "shill"

I'm not talking about you being a shill, I'm talking about guys that have 1,000 post hanging around a forum like this

Like that one guy saying he was going to post something true in here laughing like an immature kid

When I myself know for a fact this stuff works and I've got guys coming in here with an agenda tryna say other wise

[mrmanns]

Awesome, can't wait.

I'll have the shot comparisons at 7pm Eastern time

All data will be in raw form so you can see the dates on it and I'll use the same location I used for the original shot

[2020]

am I the only one who imagines MRMANNS as that guy:

http://dorkshelf.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/drnick.gif

[mrmanns]

Before (2009) After (Now)

Both about the same length

As you can see, I wet my hair in the after picture. Like that you can really see improvement. Nearly 100% patched when dry, cropped pictures in program (obviously)

Remember I started taking toco Late 2010 early 2011

Before that I experimented with topical solutions

I am going to continue to improve, I say 85% of it is back

Hope I'm giving some of you guys some hope

[mrmanns]

am I the only one who imagines MRMANNS as that guy:

http://dorkshelf.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/drnick.gif

Yeah keep exposing yourself as a shill I don't care, I'm not here posting links. I know of 5 companies that are producing toco

I'm just here putting in work and info for people that can actaully appreciate it

You're obviously immature and must have an agenda to troll this thread

[sanook]

Before (2009) After (Now)

Both about the same length

As you can see, I wet my hair in the after picture. Like that you can really see improvement. Nearly 100% patched when dry, cropped pictures in program (obviously)

Remember I started taking toco Late 2010 early 2011

Before that I experimented with topical solutions

I am going to continue to improve, I say 85% of it is back

Hope I'm giving some of you guys some hope

I appreciate your effort.

But you're not doing your reputation on here any favours when you post inconsistent images. They simply aren't good enough to convince me.


The lighting is different.
The angle is different.
The hair is wet in second photo.

[mrmanns]

I appreciate your effort.

But you're not doing your reputation on here any favours when you post inconsistent images. They simply aren't good enough to convince me.


The lighting is different.
The angle is different.
The hair is wet in second photo.


keep the shilling coming, first picture is from 2009. Second picture is from today. I take you not believing thats my results as a complement

First picture was taken from my lg touch, second picture was from my droid. Ever heard about upgrading phones

Want my verizon receipts too shill ?

And I don't care for my reputation, you can believe me or not. At this point I give two shits about unappreciative people like yourself

Go trick people into spending money on useless garbage, go post your lame blogspot urls and other urls on your fake stock accounts

Time will tell people like yourself were full of shit, I get the last laugh though because toco actually worked on me and will work on others

You're just gonna make me not help other people that want to learn more about toco, I've already achieved my goals

[mrmanns]

My secret weapon is the scar on my forehead, keep pushing me and I'll post one of my hair dry tomorrow showing the same exact scar on my forehead more close up

That should shut you shills up

But it won't because obviously the point of shilling is to try to discredit something

I am going to post it, so I can expose how shills have agendas. Especially when it comes to hairloss

Mad because I'm giving this info out for free? Mad because Toco is natural?

[2020]

Yeah keep exposing yourself as a shill I don't care, I'm not here posting links. I know of 5 companies that are producing toco

I'm just here putting in work and info for people that can actaully appreciate it

You're obviously immature and must have an agenda to troll this thread

lol I joined this forum way before you... how could I've had an agenda to "troll" you if your thread didn't even exist yet....


shills have agendas?? huh?? paranoid much? what's wrong?

[mrmanns]

Also I guess I own a farm that produces Toco LMAO

Since I'm telling everybody to get whatever Toco from whatever companies that make it

I can CARELESS what company you decide to buy from

I guess I'm The Toco shill since toco worked for me

After I post more pictures I'm only going to post in this thread for a couple of more days

I don't have time to get mad over people trying to call me a liar, anybody would be upset too if they were volunteering their time to answer questions

REMEMBER THIS THOUGH, anything that is NATURAL is ALWAYS attacked

In anyline of business, NATURAL supplements is what they fear

Article on toco even preventing heart disease and heart attack

Study Found Vitamin E Tocotrienols Lowered Damage to Heart Muscle by 75%

http://www.naturalnews.com/033922_vitamin_E_metabolic_syndrome.html

Big Pharma, Hairloss industry = The samething and you better believe they have paid shills attacking natural vitamins

See you guys tomorrow

[2020]

btw, your pictures mean nothing. How do we know FOR SURE that you only took toco and not something else?

So far there is no proof (before after pics) of someone who regrew their hair. You are the only one and you have 5 posts... what are we supposed to think?

[mrmanns]

lol I joined this forum way before you... how could I've had an agenda to "troll" you if your thread didn't even exist yet....


shills have agendas?? huh?? paranoid much? what's wrong?

My thread? I didn't even post it, that's how much you've been paying attention

And any admin on here can confirm I've been a lurker here for a while from my ip

Goodluck on your hairloss, if you even have any. Maybe you're a shill for those transplant companies

But I'm not going to assume anymore, like I told you. Real people will believe the power of toco

[greatjob!]

I really don't believe mrmanns has the slightest clue what the definition of a "shill" is. It is however becoming entertaining. BTW your pictures show absolutely zero evidence of anything, sorry....

[mrmanns]

btw, your pictures mean nothing. How do we know FOR SURE that you only took toco and not something else?

So far there is no proof (before after pics) of someone who regrew their hair. You are the only one and you have 5 posts... what are we supposed to think?

I can 100% not care if you believe me or not

I told you and everybody else I stumbled upon toco on accident since I bodybuild

Bodybuilders take it to combat hairloss while training

Like I said too I guess I'm the toco farmer since I'm not promoting any companies, I must own a farm... smh

[mrmanns]

I really don't believe mrmanns has the slightest clue what the definition of a "shill" is. It is however becoming entertaining. BTW your pictures show absolutely zero evidence of anything, sorry....

and I can absolutely give a shit what you think

amazing I try to help people and this is how I'm treated

[mrmanns]

If any of you smartasses would actually right click and save my images you will see when they were taken in properties

I guess for 3 years I'm the first person that just stopped balding for no reason . . .

You would think by now it woulda been worse, but no toco stopped it

And you're taking my word for it when theres a shitload of articles saying toco regrows hairs smh

THE TOCO FARMER has spoken smh

Shoutout to all the people who are going to regrow hair on it though, the ones who actually have a brain still

[2020]

fine whatever.

until someone posts good results or some new research confirms that toco does indeed regrow hair, most of us will remain skeptical.

thousands of things have been suggested to help with hair loss.. so far only two of them work

[goldbondmafia]

Wet hair generally makes all hair look thinner which is why im assuming greatjob! doesnt believe your pictures prove anything..

Try and take another pic from today with dry hair or even post pics from 2009 that u have from facebook compared to new photos from today ...?

appreciate the pics tho i think toco would be a good supplement to take regardless for weightlifters so i bought some to try it out.

[mrmanns]

fine whatever.

until someone posts good results or some new research confirms that toco does indeed regrow hair, most of us will remain skeptical.

thousands of things have been suggested to help with hair loss.. so far only two of them work

look take it for yourself, it isn't even that expensive

Come here in 3 months. Or even the first 2 weeks and tell me if your beard doesn't grow like a chiapet

I keep mentioning the beard since it's the part of your body guys shave everyday

Do this experiment, let your hair grow for 5 days and see how long your beard grows

Save it off while on toco on the second week regrow your beard again and WATCH how fast it grows back

It is giving your body whatever it needs to maintain healthy hair

It will do the same for your head

The only reason why I kept taking it is because I saw the affect it was doing on my face, how it would just grow hair like crazy

And it proved to be right for my head

[mrmanns]

Wet hair generally makes all hair look thinner which is why im assuming greatjob! doesnt believe your pictures prove anything..

Try and take another pic from today with dry hair or even post pics from 2009 that u have from facebook compared to new photos from today ...?

appreciate the pics tho i think toco would be a good supplement to take regardless for weightlifters so i bought some to try it out.

thanks

I will post tomorrow with my hair dry and you will see the same scar you see on the picture from 2009

[2020]

look take it for yourself, it isn't even that expensive



actually it is... I can't find one reputable dealer.

[2020]

it seems that Toco-8 increases testosterone... if that's the case, that would make your hair situation even worse.

[mrmanns]

it seems that Toco-8 increases testosterone... if that's the case, that would make your hair situation even worse.

I know but I don't know why it regrows hair. I just know it does

[mrmanns]

Here's a picture I took for you people before I knockout

Those two companies compete with each other but I buy whatever I can afford at the time

Toco 8 is more expensive

But whats next? I collect these because they're pretty? lol

Goodnight

[2020]

Here's a picture I took for you people before I knockout

Those two companies compete with each other but I buy whatever I can afford at the time

Toco 8 is more expensive

But whats next? I collect these because they're pretty? lol

Goodnight

i could only find TOCO-SORB on amazon.. is there any difference between those two?


I also found that best selling hair-vitamin on amazon includes toco as well, so apparently someone though that it was worthwhile to include it... hmm

[PatientlyWaiting]

This is TRX all over again.

[clandestine]

Not enough people have tried it yet to verify efficacy (or lack thereof) for this to be TRX2 all over again.

[gutted]

Not enough people have tried it yet to verify efficacy (or lack thereof) for this to be TRX2 all over again.

And how many people have supposedely "tried" TRX2 to verify efficacy??? 2/3?
Half, if not all of those people were on various other treatments along with trx2 which in my opinion is the wrong thing to be doing to see whether or not it has indeed affected thier hair, in a good or bad way.
Most of those people gave up after 3-6 months on it. No patience?
Most of them were norwood 2-3(or pretty old in age) - More damage = takes more time to heal.
And most of them expected miracle growth to occur!

Their clinical study results prove efficacy, not some useless thread, possibly full of shills/and people frustrated they arent seeing miracle results in 18 days rather than 18 months.

I took Tocotrienols from Life Extention prior to trx2, Put it this way TRX2 works MUCH better than Tocotrienols (in my experience)!

[sanook]

keep the shilling coming, first picture is from 2009. Second picture is from today. I take you not believing thats my results as a complement

First picture was taken from my lg touch, second picture was from my droid. Ever heard about upgrading phones

Want my verizon receipts too shill ?

And I don't care for my reputation, you can believe me or not. At this point I give two shits about unappreciative people like yourself

Go trick people into spending money on useless garbage, go post your lame blogspot urls and other urls on your fake stock accounts

Time will tell people like yourself were full of shit, I get the last laugh though because toco actually worked on me and will work on others

You're just gonna make me not help other people that want to learn more about toco, I've already achieved my goals

:confused:

All I said was your photos aren't up to scratch, which they aren't.

If it's as good as you say it is then take another photo under the same conditions (lighting/angle etc.).

Really no need to act like a lunatic with unfounded personal attacks. People on here just want CLEAR proof before they believe anything.

Like I already said, I appreciate your effort. So try not to be so sensitive.

[VictimOfDHT]

Ok, this stupid thread NEEDS to be -and SHOULD- be taken down. I'm sick and tired of people popping up every now and then with some new crazy claim. Lasers, Mico, TRX, and now this Toco .... and what's even worse is that a lot of people actually believe these lunatics and their absurd claims. No wonder the snake oil industry can make billions of dollars on the backs of the gullible. It's so easy to fool people. It's easier than taking candy from a baby.

So basically there's a cure for baldness (this Toco crap) but it's a secret that apparently only a few know about. Wow! I didn't know it was so easy to cure baldness. God damn it! And we've been suffering all this time and going through shit and spending thousands of dollars on HTs and drugs....and it was as simple as taking some stupid vitamin or whatever that shit (Toco) is. Huh! Sometimes a lie is too big or stupid to believe.

[clandestine]

Most of those people gave up after 3-6 months on it. No patience?
Most of them were norwood 2-3(or pretty old in age) - More damage = takes more time to heal.
And most of them expected miracle growth to occur!

We have members who tried TRX2 for around 9 months, some longer. Maybe I'm just hungover mate, but I can't see what you're getting at.

[clandestine]

Ok, this stupid thread NEEDS to be -and SHOULD- be taken down. I'm sick and tired of people popping up every now and then with some new crazy claim. Lasers, Mico, TRX, and now this Toco .... and what's even worse is that a lot of people actually believe these lunatics and their absurd claims. No wonder the snake oil industry can make billions of dollars on the backs of the gullible. It's so easy to fool people. It's easier than taking candy from a baby.

So basically there's a cure for baldness (this Toco crap) but it's a secret that apparently only a few know about. Wow! I didn't know it was so easy to cure baldness. God damn it! And we've been suffering all this time and going through shit and spending thousands of dollars on HTs and drugs....and it was as simple as taking some stupid vitamin or whatever that shit (Toco) is. Huh! Sometimes a lie is too big or stupid to believe.

Wonderful post, Victim. Good contribution.

Just an aside, have you tried toco personally? Are you then able to make accurate statements regarding efficacy of said treatment? Or what you're saying merely conjecture?

[klsee1]

Personally I think TOCO / TocoSorb works for improving hair thinning / regrowth as long as the follicle cells are active... and it takes time for TOCO / TocoSorb to rescue / improve these cells and hairs...

Here is a personal experience after using TOCO / TocoSorb... http://www.michaelmooney.net/hair.html....

[gutted]

We have members who tried TRX2 for around 9 months, some longer. Maybe I'm just hungover mate, but I can't see what you're getting at.

How long do merck say to take propecia for? 12-18 months before results are fully visible, possibly earlier due to the stage of hair loss your at. Its the same timeframe you should give ANY treatment your on to see if it has benifited you or not.

As stated earlier some of those members (a group of 3/4?) were not soley using trx2, which brings in variables, so thier word is hardly reliable.

[VictimOfDHT]

Wonderful post, Victim. Good contribution.

Just an aside, have you tried toco personally? Are you then able to make accurate statements regarding efficacy of said treatment? Or what you're saying merely conjecture?

Thanks, clandestine.

No. I've never tried toco myself. But claims like "it grows hair like crazy" is more than enough for me to know it's not legit or credible. Something that works that good (to thicken/grow hair) won't be a secret. If it sounds too good to be true then most likely it is.

[Conpecia]

Again, I am going to give it a shot for 2012 because of the study mentioned several times in this thread, the relatively cheap cost of a 3 month supply of the same pill used in the study, and sheer curiosity. Am I under the impression that taking this pill will cure my hair loss once and for all and bring me to a thick NW1 or 0? Of course not. But it may help keep what I have left before more advanced treatments are available, so it's worth a shot. I will post results should I see any improvements. We should be more scientific about things in this forum instead of bickering all the time.

[Conpecia]

Personally I think TOCO / TocoSorb works for improving hair thinning / regrowth as long as the follicle cells are active... and it takes time for TOCO / TocoSorb to rescue / improve these cells and hairs...

Here is a personal experience after using TOCO / TocoSorb... http://www.michaelmooney.net/hair.html....

Excellent site.

[doesitwork]

First, tocotrienols are not vitamin E, from a scientific standpoint. Only d-alpha tocopherol is vitamin E.

Next, the way that tocotrienols might work is by their antioxidant action reducing super oxide, or other reactive oxygen species, which are destructive oxidative molecules that damage hair follicles.

If improvements in microcirculation are involved, well, that might give an additive effect.

"Vitamin E helps with the growth of capillaries. When there are more capillaries, the circulation improves and it is thought that the improved circulation to the scalp is the trigger for preventing hair loss."

Thoughts?[/QUOTE]

[doesitwork]

Again, I am going to give it a shot for 2012 because of the study mentioned several times in this thread, the relatively cheap cost of a 3 month supply of the same pill used in the study, and sheer curiosity. Am I under the impression that taking this pill will cure my hair loss once and for all and bring me to a thick NW1 or 0? Of course not. But it may help keep what I have left before more advanced treatments are available, so it's worth a shot. I will post results should I see any improvements. We should be more scientific about things in this forum instead of bickering all the time.

Sounds smart. Just remember, it takes at least five months, and maybe more like eight months before any real solution is going to have an effect.

I've tried Toco-Sorb along with a doctor friend and we both saw a significant improvement in our hair count, which friends and family NOTICED. It's not a maybe. I had a friend who I hadn't seen in two years who said the difference in my hair was quite clear.

I had one friend who I hadn't seen in several months say first thing, "Your hair is thicker. You look younger. What are you doing?"

[doesitwork]

Thanks, clandestine.

No. I've never tried toco myself. But claims like "it grows hair like crazy" is more than enough for me to know it's not legit or credible. Something that works that good (to thicken/grow hair) won't be a secret. If it sounds too good to be true then most likely it is.

Like crazy is crazy, but it worked for me - enough that friends and family ALL said they noticed a change in my hair thickness, meaning the number of hairs on my hair, especially up front, where I had lost the most. His barber noticed it along with everyone he works with.

But it does take at five to eight months. Five for me and six for my doctor friend. And the study was an eight month study. I assume because they wanted to capture the most effect with the most of their subjects.

[doesitwork]

Thanks, clandestine.

No. I've never tried toco myself. But claims like "it grows hair like crazy" is more than enough for me to know it's not legit or credible. Something that works that good (to thicken/grow hair) won't be a secret. If it sounds too good to be true then most likely it is.

Like crazy is crazy, but it worked for me - enough that friends and family ALL said they noticed a change in my hair thickness, meaning the number of hairs on my hair, especially up front, where I had lost the most. And my friend, who is a doctor had the same effect. And his barber noticed it along with everyone he works with.

But it does take at five to eight months. Five for me and six for my doctor friend. And the study was an eight month study. I assume because they wanted to capture the most effect with the most of their subjects.

[doesitwork]

Toco 8 is definitely potent, watch how fast a shaven beard grows back. You'll see it the first week you're on it

I'll say give it about 3 months for you see real hair growth on your scalp, before then you'll see little fuzz hairs growing

I noticed it in five months. I'd say don't give up the ship in three months. At five not only me but friends noticed it, too.

[2020]

how come so many newly registered users report good results, when everyone else says that it's useless :confused:

[Morbo]

Take a wild guess. :D

[KeepHoping]

How much of the Toco-sorb do you guys take a day?

[2020]

How much of the Toco-sorb do you guys take a day?

toco-sorb and toco-8 are very different...

[KeepHoping]

Let me rephrase that, anyone that takes toco-sorb, can you please tell me how much you take a day. Thank you.

[VictimOfDHT]

how come so many newly registered users report good results, when everyone else says that it's useless :confused:

Hmmm...why. Maybe because the "so many newly registered users" are the same person. Come on. Does it really need to be answered. You see, every now and then we get a crook who tries to make a quick buck by promoting some snake oil. He comes to this forum and similar others and makes like 20 different screen names and makes up some fake bull shit testimonies...... well, you get the idea.

[clandestine]

Personally I would withhold judgement before efficacy of said treatment can be verified or debunked. We should refrain from making assumptions based on personal opinion when considering possible treatments.

That said, I find 'doesitwork's posts to be hilarious. Troll perhaps.

[doesitwork]

Since I always look for medical journal studies before I "try" something, my Dad calls me a "Walking Enclyclopedia with a Sense of Humor," so thanks.

The tocotrienols DO have a published placebo-controlled trial and that's why I feel like it's worth talking about.

The same is true of Nizoral shampoo, and iron deficiency being associated with hair loss, as well with some weaker data on taking biotin.

The fatal question is "Does it have published data that supports it?"
Which of course means, "Does it work?"

[doesitwork]

How much of the Toco-sorb do you guys take a day?

I started with two a day, but it's known to be quite safe and actually has what we might call "anti-aging' effects, such as lowers cholesterol, protects the prostate from cancer, etc...

So I upped it to three a day, because my hair grew thicker. And whoever said it makes a beard grow faster is right. Damn, I hate having to shave more...
Then four a day, because after reading on the www.michaelmooney.net/hair.html that his hair got darker - I figured why not take a bit more.

Looking at the science, tocotrienols are far more potent in some portions of metabolism than vitamin E, as far as protecting tissue from damage, so I see them as helping keep me younger.

[doesitwork]

how come so many newly registered users report good results, when everyone else says that it's useless :confused:

There's a bodybuilding site that has dozens of posts on tocotrienols and I'd say about half of them say they grew more hair. One of the guys there told me to check this site for more good information.

And I see people have looked at some of the same things I have, including Nizoral shampoo, which it seems has an effect, although weaker than tocotrienols. Nizoral, like tocotrienols, has published studies, and has a known potential mode of action, so it's not some mystery sauce dreamed up by marketers.

[2020]

There's a bodybuilding site that has dozens of posts on tocotrienols and I'd say about half of them say they grew more hair. One of the guys there told me to check this site for more good information.

And I see people have looked at some of the same things I have, including Nizoral shampoo, which it seems has an effect, although weaker than tocotrienols. Nizoral, like tocotrienols, has published studies, and has a known potential mode of action, so it's not some mystery sauce dreamed up by marketers.

ok, but I'm pretty sure that most of those people on that forum weren't suffering from MPB but instead from some temporary hair loss caused by steroids or whatever...

how could toco make hair grow if a hair follicle is dead?

[doesitwork]

ok, but I'm pretty sure that most of those people on that forum weren't suffering from MPB but instead from some temporary hair loss caused by steroids or whatever...

Yessir - roid-related-alopecia. lol.

how could toco make hair grow if a hair follicle is dead?

It can't. But if a follicle is just experiencing oxidative damage caused by reactive oxygen species (ROS), which has been pointed at in a published study [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10965354], and the antioxidant properties of specific tocotrienols neutralized the ROS, the follicle might become healthy, and thus it starts going through its normal growth phases.

[StressedToTheBald]

how could toco make hair grow if a hair follicle is dead?

As the latest researches say, folicles don't die - even those in final balding stages, with shiny bald heads haven't exactly lost their hairs in scientific sense of the word. Roots and hair folicles are still there but have minatured to an extreme degree, due to DHT, that they are not visible.

[goldbondmafia]

As the latest researches say, folicles don't die - even those in final balding stages, with shiny bald heads haven't exactly lost their hairs in scientific sense of the word. Roots and hair folicles are still there but have minatured to an extreme degree, due to DHT, that they are not visible.

That is BIG news if true

[StressedToTheBald]

That is BIG news if true

It is true, but its not really helping much. The problem always was and still is how to activate these hair folicles to grow and behave like the rest of the healthy hair. The difference between us who are going bald and those who aren't is in genes. We inherited hairs that react poorly to DHT while the other people with full set of hair - all their hairs are resistant to DHT, thats why they never go bald. Life ain't fair, some people are simply born with better or worse set of genes, changing the genes would be a scientific miracle & BIG news if You ask me.

[born]

It is true, but its not really helping much. The problem always was and still is how to activate these hair folicles to grow and behave like the rest of the healthy hair. The difference between us who are going bald and those who aren't is in genes. We inherited hairs that react poorly to DHT while the other people with full set of hair - all their hairs are resistant to DHT, thats why they never go bald. Life ain't fair, some people are simply born with better or worse set of genes, changing the genes would be a scientific miracle & BIG news if You ask me.

that's what cotsarelis is working on. It would be the best treatment if a magical cream came out that could wake all the follicles.No need for transplants injections etc

[2020]

As the latest researches say, folicles don't die - even those in final balding stages, with shiny bald heads haven't exactly lost their hairs in scientific sense of the word. Roots and hair folicles are still there but have minatured to an extreme degree, due to DHT, that they are not visible.

yes but those follicles shrunk due to DAMAGE. PERMANENT DAMAGE. No natural treatment will reverse it...

[StressedToTheBald]

I believe that if cure is ever developed - it will work from inside, nothing topical. The problem itself is inside, what happens to our hair, outside, is just a consequence.

Folicles are not permanently damaged. They don't die !
Please read the following:

January 4, 2011
"Dr. George Cotsarelis, chairman of the dermatology department at the University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine...
"...The follicles that make hair don't go away completely, but they become miniaturized, to the point where the hair they normally make to replace hair when it naturally falls out becomes microscopic and therefore invisible," Cotsarelis said.
There are still just as many stem cells in the bald scalp that can make hair as there are in the normal haired scalp, and that was an important and surprising finding, Cotsarelis said.
...However, those hoping for a treatment anytime soon will have to wait. "Taking something from the lab to the clinic often takes decades, so there's no treatment around the corner," Cotsarelis cautioned. "It's really going to take quite a while to figure this out.""

[doesitwork]

It is true, but its not really helping much. The problem always was and still is how to activate these hair folicles to grow and behave like the rest of the healthy hair. The difference between us who are going bald and those who aren't is in genes. We inherited hairs that react poorly to DHT while the other people with full set of hair - all their hairs are resistant to DHT, thats why they never go bald. Life ain't fair, some people are simply born with better or worse set of genes, changing the genes would be a scientific miracle & BIG news if You ask me.

Well, apparently there may be a way to thrwart genetics.

If DHT exerts its destructive behavior by enlisting super oxide, which damages follicles, Search "superoxide" in http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2956962/ - this is where tocotrienols might come in, as these potent antioxidants can neutralize superoxide.

[StressedToTheBald]

Well, apparently there may be a way to thrwart genetics.

If DHT exerts its destructive behavior by enlisting super oxide, which damages follicles, Search "superoxide" in http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2956962/ - this is where tocotrienols might come in, as these potent antioxidants can neutralize superoxide.

Many thanks for that link doesitwork, I'll have a good look into this study.

I recall reading somewhere btw. that vitamin E can help? in sense of providing more? oxigen to hair folicles - question is if this works topical or orally ? I doubt any topical form would do the trick as oxigen is delivered via bloodstream. Also vitamin E comes in at least 4 types..

This reminded me of something that might be related. Amino acid called Arginine is said to play vital role in nitric oxide which may also be crucial for fighting hair loss. Via protein supplement I am currently taking 3,000mg+ of L-Arginine daily and plan to increase - but this is my first month so I can't say if it does any good just yet, along with other stuff that I also use daily.

I already found sth about nitric oxide from the link You provided - seems that nitric oxide is a good one !

"Nitric oxide (NO) initiates and maintains hair growth while superoxide inhibits hair growth. Use of arginine can enhance NO and promote angiogenesis for new hair growth.[15]"

[VictimOfDHT]

That is BIG news if true

That's not "big news". It's a fact that completely bald heads have hair on them but the hairs are so tiny that you can barely see them. Which means the follicles are there but for some god damn reason they're producing "invisible" hairs.

[KeepHoping]

Does anyone know if there is a source to get toco-8 for cheap, because you need at least a bottle a month if you take two scoops.

[clandestine]

Does anyone know if there is a source to get toco-8 for cheap, because you need at least a bottle a month if you take two scoops.

Seconded. Where'd mrmanns run off to?

[KeepHoping]

Also is their really much difference between toco-sorb and something like this that is cheaper: http://www.swansonvitamins.com/HRG004/ItemDetail?SourceCode=INTL405&CAWELAID=956279346

thanks.

[2020]

Also is their really much difference between toco-sorb and something like this that is cheaper: http://www.swansonvitamins.com/HRG004/ItemDetail?SourceCode=INTL405&CAWELAID=956279346

thanks.

toco-sorb IS NOT THE SAME as toco-8....

[clandestine]

What's the difference?

[2020]

What's the difference?

not the same ingredients.

http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/primordial-performance/toco-8-38-g.html


... there is a reason why toco-sorb is cheaper

[StressedToTheBald]

On first sight that toco 8 seems to offer higher concentration in the mix.. but also its much more expensive, so better calculate if You plan to purchase one or another..

[2020]

but it doesn't have the same ingredients... only the toco-8 mix was patented. Others are just imitations

[doesitwork]

but it doesn't have the same ingredients... only the toco-8 mix was patented. Others are just imitations

There are three real Tocomin SupraBio products.

1. Jarrow Formulas makes Toco-Sorb.
2. Toco-8 by Primordial Performance uses the same raw material - Tocomin SupraBio
3. And Life Extension Foundation makes Super Absorbable Tocotrienols, which also uses the Tocomin SupraBio licensed raw material.

[doesitwork]

On first sight that toco 8 seems to offer higher concentration in the mix.. but also its much more expensive, so better calculate if You plan to purchase one or another..

The best price for the real tocotrienols is to buy Jarrow Toco-Sorb from swansonvitamins.com.

It's about half price of the toco-8 best price.

[doesitwork]

Many thanks for that link doesitwork, I'll have a good look into this study.

I recall reading somewhere btw. that vitamin E can help? in sense of providing more? oxigen to hair folicles - question is if this works topical or orally ? I doubt any topical form would do the trick as oxigen is delivered via bloodstream. Also vitamin E comes in at least 4 types..

[/B][15]"[/U]
Well, tocotrienols have as much as 60 times more activity than the d-alpha tocopherol form of vitamin E used orally. So if oxygenation is part of the mode of action, then tocotrienols would trump the popular d-alpha tocopherol.

[clandestine]

The best price for the real tocotrienols is to buy Jarrow Toco-Sorb from swansonvitamins.com.

It's about half price of the toco-8 best price.

doesitwork; Another user stated Toco-sorb contains different ingredients than Toco-8. From your experience, is it just as effective? Worth paying more for Toco-8? Curious to hear your opinion.

[doesitwork]

doesitwork; Another user stated Toco-sorb contains different ingredients than Toco-8. From your experience, is it just as effective? Worth paying more for Toco-8? Curious to hear your opinion.

All three "toco" products use the same Carotech Tocomin SupraBio ingredients. The tocotrienol balance is the same. Toco-8 added some bells and whistles, that don't make more hair grow.

The bottom line is if you add them all up, Swansons sells the important tocotrienols for about half what the best price I found for Toco-8's equilibrant.

If you know supplements, you've gotta love Swansonvitamins.com.

[StressedToTheBald]

It's about half price of the toco-8 best price.

But the mix concentration per tablet is less than half comparing to toco-8. Thats why I said - calculate to find what the real best price is. For example - its not the same if one tablet of one product contains 120 mg of something and the other single tablet of another product goes with 50mg of the same something - then, if number of tabs are the same both products, even if the price of the first product is 2 times more expensive than the second, it still is overall cheaper - due to higher concentration.


Well, tocotrienols have as much as 60 times more activity than the d-alpha tocopherol form of vitamin E used orally. So if oxygenation is part of the mode of action, then tocotrienols would trump the popular d-alpha tocopherol.

Sounds interesting. It surely can't hurt, the only question is how much it can help in reality, will it boost regrowth in any way and make visible difference.. B vitamins for example are been often described as crucial and a must for hair loss, yet even when I used some crazy high amounts - 200mg of full B complex, it had no visible effect whatsoever. On and off I also used Biotin, the H Vitamin, Hair Vitamin, I was going like 10,000 units daily - and no, no results what that either..

I now give advantage to other ingredients over vitamins and minerals. Sterols in beta sitosterol and ganodermic acid from ganoderma lucidum will be my bet in the time ahead, as they are shown by studies to be natural inhibitors of DHT - DHT is the killer of our hair. That doesn't mean I'm not using vitamins and minerals, I use them all right and each day, its just I don't I don't currently mark them as main warriors in my quest against baldness.

[KeepHoping]

doesitwork: If one decides to take toco-sorb, how many pills would you take a day?

[NeedHairASAP]

pictures? or.....?

[doesitwork]

[QUOTE=StressedToTheBald;48826]But the mix concentration per tablet is less than half comparing to toco-8. Thats why I said - calculate to find what the real best price is. For example - its not the same if one tablet of one product contains 120 mg of something and the other single tablet of another product goes with 50mg of the same something - then, if number of tabs are the same both products, even if the price of the first product is 2 times more expensive than the second, it still is overall cheaper - due to higher concentration.

Actually, I did add it up wrong. Swanson's charges 51% of the cost of Toco-8 from ProSource.net for Toco-Sorb, which gives us 57% as much tocotrienols. So it's a slightly better (6%) deal to buy Toco-Sorb from Swanson. Shipping cost at Swanson is $4.99, which beats just about everyone. I don't what ProSource charges for shipping, but I bet it's more than $4.99.

So there's my two cents.

[Conpecia]

There are three real Tocomin SupraBio products.

1. Jarrow Formulas makes Toco-Sorb.
2. Toco-8 by Primordial Performance uses the same raw material - Tocomin SupraBio
3. And Life Extension Foundation makes Super Absorbable Tocotrienols, which also uses the Tocomin SupraBio licensed raw material.

I purchased Tocomin SupraBio from Nutraceutical Sciences Institute. 120 softgels with 60 mg of the complex per pill. It also contains 26 IU's of d-alpha tocopherol.

A fellow at another baldness site who goes by the name "polaris" apparently contacted the VP of Carotech, the company that manufactures Tocomin SupraBio, and the VP recommended the NCI product to him. Here is a copy of that post:

The manufacturer of Tocomin SupraBio is Carotech (http://www.carotech.net).
There are a number of stories about tocotrienols on this website and on one of the pdfs, they actually showed a before & after picture of their hair growth study subject. You can download this story on their homepage, its title "TocominSupraBio: Hair Loss prevention and beyond".

My notes on this Tocomin SupraBio Hair growth formulation patent:
- it contains mixture of tocotrienols and some tocopherol - good antioxidants
- could it be due to the improved absorption of the tocotrienol? "SupraBio" is actually the name given to the delivery system that has another patent.
- dosage - 100mg/day for 8 months, consistently.
- Most effective - increase hair count
- Side effects - nil

I wrote to their VP months ago and here are his recommendations on where to get the Tocomin SupraBio softgels. I believe these are companies in the US :
Quote:
Tocomin SupraBio soft gel capsules can be purchased from the following :-
i) VITACOST's TOCOMIN SUPRABIO - http://www.vitacost.com/NSI-Tocomin-Sup ... ol-Complex. You can purchase this product from the website (Tel : 1 800 381 0759).

ii) TOCO-SORB by Jarrow Formulas - http://www.jarrow.com/product/274/Toco_ ... _Toco_Life. This product can be puchased from your local health food stores. Or you can call them at this no : (310) 204-6936

iiii) CAROTEC's Tocomin SupraBio - http://www.carotec.com/product/56/108. You can call this company at 1-800-522-4279

The above are only three examples of a number of companies that carry Tocomin SupraBio. There are other products in the markert with a combination of tocotrienol (Tocomin) with other ingredients / phytonutrients. What is most important is that when you purchase the product - ensure that it carries the logo and tradename - Tocomin or Tocomin Suprabio on the product label.

This would ensure that you are getting the right product with ingredients that are with proven science.


I have read elsewhere that tocopherol will only get in tocotrienol's way when it is present in ratio greater than 30%, and in the effect of reducing cholesterol, not sure if it may affect hair regrowth since the mechanisms are different. But this Tocomin SupraBio has tocopherol at ratio below 30%.

- cheers!




So, one issue we need to figure out is whether the tocopherol really does inhibit the functionality of the tocotrienol complex in percentages higher than 30%. And another issue is whether this NCI product is legitimate or not. I'm not sure why it wouldn't be, particularly when the people at Carotech specifically recommend it. Any thoughts?

[NeedHairASAP]

I purchased Tocomin SupraBio from Nutraceutical Sciences Institute. 120 softgels with 60 mg of the complex per pill. It also contains 26 IU's of d-alpha tocopherol.

A fellow at another baldness site who goes by the name "polaris" apparently contacted the VP of Carotech, the company that manufactures Tocomin SupraBio, and the VP recommended the NCI product to him. Here is a copy of that post:

The manufacturer of Tocomin SupraBio is Carotech (http://www.carotech.net).
There are a number of stories about tocotrienols on this website and on one of the pdfs, they actually showed a before & after picture of their hair growth study subject. You can download this story on their homepage, its title "TocominSupraBio: Hair Loss prevention and beyond".

My notes on this Tocomin SupraBio Hair growth formulation patent:
- it contains mixture of tocotrienols and some tocopherol - good antioxidants
- could it be due to the improved absorption of the tocotrienol? "SupraBio" is actually the name given to the delivery system that has another patent.
- dosage - 100mg/day for 8 months, consistently.
- Most effective - increase hair count
- Side effects - nil

I wrote to their VP months ago and here are his recommendations on where to get the Tocomin SupraBio softgels. I believe these are companies in the US :
Quote:
Tocomin SupraBio soft gel capsules can be purchased from the following :-
i) VITACOST's TOCOMIN SUPRABIO - http://www.vitacost.com/NSI-Tocomin-Sup ... ol-Complex. You can purchase this product from the website (Tel : 1 800 381 0759).

ii) TOCO-SORB by Jarrow Formulas - http://www.jarrow.com/product/274/Toco_ ... _Toco_Life. This product can be puchased from your local health food stores. Or you can call them at this no : (310) 204-6936

iiii) CAROTEC's Tocomin SupraBio - http://www.carotec.com/product/56/108. You can call this company at 1-800-522-4279

The above are only three examples of a number of companies that carry Tocomin SupraBio. There are other products in the markert with a combination of tocotrienol (Tocomin) with other ingredients / phytonutrients. What is most important is that when you purchase the product - ensure that it carries the logo and tradename - Tocomin or Tocomin Suprabio on the product label.

This would ensure that you are getting the right product with ingredients that are with proven science.


I have read elsewhere that tocopherol will only get in tocotrienol's way when it is present in ratio greater than 30%, and in the effect of reducing cholesterol, not sure if it may affect hair regrowth since the mechanisms are different. But this Tocomin SupraBio has tocopherol at ratio below 30%.

- cheers!




So, one issue we need to figure out is whether the tocopherol really does inhibit the functionality of the tocotrienol complex in percentages higher than 30%. And another issue is whether this NCI product is legitimate or not. I'm not sure why it wouldn't be, particularly when the people at Carotech specifically recommend it. Any thoughts?





EDIT: I see where all the fuss is coming from


after Renokin.... I realized even "studies" with shit loads of grafts and supposed trial participants can't be trusted....

[2020]

am I the only one who sees this as an obvious marketing ploy? :(

[doesitwork]

But the mix concentration per tablet is less than half comparing to toco-8. Thats why I said - calculate to find what the real best price is. For example - its not the same if one tablet of one product contains 120 mg of something and the other single tablet of another product goes with 50mg of the same something - then, if number of tabs are the same both products, even if the price of the first product is 2 times more expensive than the second, it still is overall cheaper - due to higher concentration.



Sounds interesting. It surely can't hurt, the only question is how much it can help in reality, will it boost regrowth in any way and make visible difference.. B vitamins for example are been often described as crucial and a must for hair loss, yet even when I used some crazy high amounts - 200mg of full B complex, it had no visible effect whatsoever. On and off I also used Biotin, the H Vitamin, Hair Vitamin, I was going like 10,000 units daily - and no, no results what that either..

I now give advantage to other ingredients over vitamins and minerals. Sterols in beta sitosterol and ganodermic acid from ganoderma lucidum will be my bet in the time ahead, as they are shown by studies to be natural inhibitors of DHT - DHT is the killer of our hair. That doesn't mean I'm not using vitamins and minerals, I use them all right and each day, its just I don't I don't currently mark them as main warriors in my quest against baldness.

I purchased Tocomin SupraBio from Nutraceutical Sciences Institute. 120 softgels with 60 mg of the complex per pill. It also contains 26 IU's of d-alpha tocopherol.

A fellow at another baldness site who goes by the name "polaris" apparently contacted the VP of Carotech, the company that manufactures Tocomin SupraBio, and the VP recommended the NCI product to him. Here is a copy of that post:

The manufacturer of Tocomin SupraBio is Carotech (http://www.carotech.net).
There are a number of stories about tocotrienols on this website and on one of the pdfs, they actually showed a before & after picture of their hair growth study subject. You can download this story on their homepage, its title "TocominSupraBio: Hair Loss prevention and beyond".

My notes on this Tocomin SupraBio Hair growth formulation patent:
- it contains mixture of tocotrienols and some tocopherol - good antioxidants
- could it be due to the improved absorption of the tocotrienol? "SupraBio" is actually the name given to the delivery system that has another patent.
- dosage - 100mg/day for 8 months, consistently.
- Most effective - increase hair count
- Side effects - nil

I wrote to their VP months ago and here are his recommendations on where to get the Tocomin SupraBio softgels. I believe these are companies in the US :
Quote:
Tocomin SupraBio soft gel capsules can be purchased from the following :-
i) VITACOST's TOCOMIN SUPRABIO - http://www.vitacost.com/NSI-Tocomin-Sup ... ol-Complex. You can purchase this product from the website (Tel : 1 800 381 0759).

ii) TOCO-SORB by Jarrow Formulas - http://www.jarrow.com/product/274/Toco_ ... _Toco_Life. This product can be puchased from your local health food stores. Or you can call them at this no : (310) 204-6936

iiii) CAROTEC's Tocomin SupraBio - http://www.carotec.com/product/56/108. You can call this company at 1-800-522-4279

The above are only three examples of a number of companies that carry Tocomin SupraBio. There are other products in the markert with a combination of tocotrienol (Tocomin) with other ingredients / phytonutrients. What is most important is that when you purchase the product - ensure that it carries the logo and tradename - Tocomin or Tocomin Suprabio on the product label.

This would ensure that you are getting the right product with ingredients that are with proven science.


I have read elsewhere that tocopherol will only get in tocotrienol's way when it is present in ratio greater than 30%, and in the effect of reducing cholesterol, not sure if it may affect hair regrowth since the mechanisms are different. But this Tocomin SupraBio has tocopherol at ratio below 30%.

- cheers!




So, one issue we need to figure out is whether the tocopherol really does inhibit the functionality of the tocotrienol complex in percentages higher than 30%. And another issue is whether this NCI product is legitimate or not. I'm not sure why it wouldn't be, particularly when the people at Carotech specifically recommend it. Any thoughts?

It's published that vitamin E when there's more than 30% inhibits the absorption of tocotrienols. I read that study. I could find it if pressed.

That's why I take tocotrienols first thing in the morning with a few other supplements but NOT with vitamin E. The tocotrienols naturally are accompanied by a little vitamin E in the palm oil source, but not enough E to impede absorption of the tocotrienols.

So there are several companies that have licensed the Tocomin SupraBio. So just look for Tocomin SupraBio if you want to be sure what you're getting. I also had detailed communication with the Carotech people. He presented data to me that showed that they had enhanced their product's absorption so that their product was about three times better utilized than some other tocotrienol products, such as DeltaGold.

[Conpecia]

Sounds good, doesitwork.

2020, do you think a company like carotech that has the capacity to engineer a vitamin complex would at the same time pay actual, physical money to someone like mrmanns to come here and talk about beard hair? Clandestine found a study, posted it, and people are weighing in. Some, like me, see it as worth 10 dollars a month to try out. If it doesn't work, I'll be the first one to say so. I'm all for a good conspiracy theory but man, you gotta pick your battles.

[clandestine]

Conpecia; Which product do you think you'll end up going with? Sorry if you've already mentioned previously.

[Conpecia]

Conpecia; Which product do you think you'll end up going with? Sorry if you've already mentioned previously.


http://www.vitacost.com/Vitacost-Tocomin-SupraBio-Palm-Tocotrienol-Complex-60-mg-120-Softgels

This is what I'm rolling with; been taking it since Monday night. Nothing to report so far, but it's been 5 days, and we're talking about an 8 month experiment.

Also on Propecia and Nizoral. Propecia has worked wonders for me. I've been taking it since I was about 21 and just turned 27. My crown, which was thinning rapidly (terrifying to take a shower back then) has stabilized and remained the same in those six years, and I've had no side effects (apparently the sides are a big deal around here, guess I was one of the lucky ones).

My hairline is a different story... slowly going, but enough remains to make an effort with stuff like this, which might thwart the necessity of a transplant and allow me to ride the wave to 2015/16 and the new treatments.

Just started Nizoral about two months ago. Went through a small shed, nothing major, and am giving this about 6 months before I post any kind of result.

I think the big key is to go with something that has Tocomin Suprabio specifically. The NSI stuff was pretty cheap, and seemed to reflect the same complex used in this study everyone is throwing around, so I figured I'll bite the bullet and give it a shot. If nothing else, I get plenty of vitamin E :cool:

[Conpecia]

EDIT:

For clarity, the "NSI stuff" is the vitacost brand. It's produced by Nutraceutical Sciences Institute. Sorry for any confusion.

[67mph]

...in response to this thread and it's posts...i'm none the wiser!

Hope no one, and none of you take offence with my response but there it is.

Hairloss and the research involved is one huge mine field and this thread is a prime example, i just don't know where to go with the informative and uninformative information!?

That said, good luck guys, 57mph

[2020]

EDIT:

For clarity, the "NSI stuff" is the vitacost brand. It's produced by Nutraceutical Sciences Institute. Sorry for any confusion.

why didn't you edit your previous post instead of making a new post...

[Conpecia]

Because I was on my cell phone and it's quicker that way.

[Conpecia]

...in response to this thread and it's posts...i'm none the wiser!

Hope no one, and none of you take offence with my response but there it is.

Hairloss and the research involved is one huge mine field and this thread is a prime example, i just don't know where to go with the informative and uninformative information!?

That said, good luck guys, 57mph


That's all good; can't say I blame you. Hopefully later this year I can post some results, for better or for worse, and at least give another impression. It does seem to have both supporters and critics.

[NeedHairASAP]

why didn't you edit your previous post instead of making a new post...

why'd you bother asking such a stupid question?

[2020]

because I'm sure he's just trying to boost his post count to appear more reputable...

[Conpecia]

because I'm sure he's just trying to boost his post count to appear more reputable...

You're starting to piss me off. You look like an absolute idiot coming in here and saying stuff like that. What a stupid way to "boost my post count." Seriously. That makes no sense, whatsoever.

Not to mention you've been here less than half the time I have and you've got over twice as many posts. Who's trying to look credible? Maybe you work at a competing company and are trying to take sales away from carotech?

(Read that last sentence again. See how ridiculous that sounds? That is you in this thread.)

I have no problem with you being skeptical of the treatment in question, but I do have a problem with you implying I have dubious motives, when I'm the one biting the bullet and spending my money on something that might not work at all. I'm also willing to take the time to come back and report whatever I find, for better or for worse, to the rest of the community. So which one of us is helping find possible treatments for MPB?

Channel your avatar and Let It Be, George. Go look for UFO's or something...

[Conpecia]

Update:

It's been a week since I started with two 60mg softgels/day of the tocomin suprabio.

Yesterday I was looking in the mirror and I noticed some small bumps below my neck, near the collar of my shirt. I pulled down my shirt and noticed several more, then took my shirt off and saw they were all over my chest. I freaked out for about ten seconds, then realized what they are: hairs coming in. I've got I guess about an average amount of hair on my chest as it is, and the bumps are limited to the areas where I have chest hair. Nothing to report on yet as far as head hair goes, but at least some hair is growing, though I may risk looking like a gorilla in 8 months...

Looks like Mrmanns was right about facial hair too... mine's growing back faster, darker, and higher up on my cheeks than normal. Hopefully this is translating to my head in some form...

I'll keep you guys posted if there are any changes. Did anyone else who has taken tocomin have increased body hair?

[gutted]

Update:

It's been a week since I started with two 60mg softgels/day of the tocomin suprabio.

Yesterday I was looking in the mirror and I noticed some small bumps below my neck, near the collar of my shirt. I pulled down my shirt and noticed several more, then took my shirt off and saw they were all over my chest. I freaked out for about ten seconds, then realized what they are: hairs coming in. I've got I guess about an average amount of hair on my chest as it is, and the bumps are limited to the areas where I have chest hair. Nothing to report on yet as far as head hair goes, but at least some hair is growing, though I may risk looking like a gorilla in 8 months...

Looks like Mrmanns was right about facial hair too... mine's growing back faster, darker, and higher up on my cheeks than normal. Hopefully this is translating to my head in some form...

I'll keep you guys posted if there are any changes. Did anyone else who has taken tocomin have increased body hair?

when i was on it, i THINK i did notice some sexual sides, although i really cannot say it was the toco as i was also on inneov which contains beta sis, which is a known dht blocker.

But one of the reasons why i dropped it was because of this percieved sexual side - low libido, weak erections etc.
Could you keep an eye out on that and report about this too. i hope you've not been on dht blockers before too.

[StressedToTheBald]

Update:

It's been a week since I started with two 60mg softgels/day of the tocomin suprabio.

Yesterday I was looking in the mirror and I noticed some small bumps below my neck, near the collar of my shirt. I pulled down my shirt and noticed several more, then took my shirt off and saw they were all over my chest. I freaked out for about ten seconds, then realized what they are: hairs coming in. I've got I guess about an average amount of hair on my chest as it is, and the bumps are limited to the areas where I have chest hair. Nothing to report on yet as far as head hair goes, but at least some hair is growing, though I may risk looking like a gorilla in 8 months...

Looks like Mrmanns was right about facial hair too... mine's growing back faster, darker, and higher up on my cheeks than normal. Hopefully this is translating to my head in some form...

I'll keep you guys posted if there are any changes. Did anyone else who has taken tocomin have increased body hair?

Please keep us updated. Surprising first results, I'd freak out too, don't need any more hair on the body, only head. This reminded me.. I've read that unwanted body and facial hair can be side effect of minoxidil (rogaine) - do You use minoxidil in any form as well ?

[clandestine]

when i was on it, i THINK i did notice some sexual sides, although i really cannot say it was the toco as i was also on inneov which contains beta sis, which is a known dht blocker.

But one of the reasons why i dropped it was because of this percieved sexual side - low libido, weak erections etc.
Could you keep an eye out on that and report about this too. i hope you've not been on dht blockers before too.

Potential sexual sides were not mentioned anywhere as a product of using tocotrienols.

"Palm tocotrienol complex is a natural food supplement with no known side effects at the plasma concentration achieved via oral supplementation."

Please elaborate, if there is literally no mention sides in relation to use of tocotrienols, why would you then make the assumption?

Thanks in advance for clarification.

[gutted]

Potential sexual sides were not mentioned anywhere as a product of using tocotrienols.

"Palm tocotrienol complex is a natural food supplement with no known side effects at the plasma concentration achieved via oral supplementation."

Please elaborate, if there is literally no mention sides in relation to use of tocotrienols, why would you then make the assumption?

Thanks in advance for clarification.

its just something anecdotal and In my experience, i noticed low libido, but at the time i was taking other stuff too which had the potential to cause that side effect, hence why im asking for this to be monitored.

[clandestine]

its just something anecdotal and In my experience, i noticed low libido, but at the time i was taking other stuff too which had the potential to cause that side effect, hence why im asking for this to be monitored.

Alright, no worries. I was just curious as to your reasoning.

[Conpecia]

Gutted: no change in libido so far. I'm also on Propecia which is supposed to have pretty heavy effects on libido, but I haven't had any changes in the many years I've been on it. Probably not the best candidate to track tocomin's effect on libido since I am taking other stuff.

Stressedtothebald: no minox, which makes the increase all the more curious. Hopefully it calms down; I want to keep my hair but not at the expense of reverting to a primate...

At the same time, the only sides that would really deter me are cognitive or sexual sides. More or less hair is the variable we're concerned with, so I'll keep forging ahead until the 8 months is over, unless the body and facial hair gets so ridiculous as to warrant more negative attention than baldness, lol. The irony.

[StressedToTheBald]

Gutted: no change in libido so far. I'm also on Propecia which is supposed to have pretty heavy effects on libido, but I haven't had any changes in the many years I've been on it. Probably not the best candidate to track tocomin's effect on libido since I am taking other stuff.

Stressedtothebald: no minox, which makes the increase all the more curious. Hopefully it calms down; I want to keep my hair but not at the expense of reverting to a primate...

At the same time, the only sides that would really deter me are cognitive or sexual sides. More or less hair is the variable we're concerned with, so I'll keep forging ahead until the 8 months is over, unless the body and facial hair gets so ridiculous as to warrant more negative attention than baldness, lol. The irony.

Interesting. Well I don't know know if increased facial and body hairs is listed as propecia side effect, I don't recall seeing it anywhere. While now on beta sitosterol, I now tend to notice plenty of tiny blonde hairs even beyond the area of hair - not sure if I failed to notice them before nor if they are the result of beta sitosterol... maybe I'm just seeing what was there all the time and while I don't mind them in the area of where my hair should be.. I absolutely don't want them elsewhere, hopefuly its nothing and if they grow and turn colour it will only happen in the hair area.

[Conpecia]

Guys, can this stuff cause gynecomastia?

All of a sudden I have a lot more "breast" tissue than I remember having. I'm a big guy, but I exercise regularly and have actually been losing weight, which is why I'm confused that my chest feels softer and looks less defined than it did a couple weeks ago. It could be that I'm losing muscle, and I'm also on finasteride which is known to cause gynecomastia in some people.

If so, no dice. I value keeping my hair, but not at that price. Again, it could be that I'm just losing muscle mass. I don't really see how tocomin could cause man boobs, but a lot of you people are more versed in the science of these products than I am. I guess I'll start dieting and doing a lot of pushups and chest exercises and see what happens. But there is a noticeable difference. No tenderness or pain, just more fat or something. Jesus, what does it take to keep a head of hair...

[2020]

Guys, can this stuff cause gynecomastia?

are you crazy?? this is just vitamin E.... 10000% that your new boobs are not from taking this vitamin

[StressedToTheBald]

Supposedly some doctors actually prescribe high doses of vitamin E to treat gynecomastia. Read the example here:
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/bodybuilding-supplements/vitamin-e-gyno-204242.html

So, I highly doubt that Your problem can be caused by vitamin E.
You should check the other stuff, something else You're using might be causing it.

[StressedToTheBald]

I might have found a link between high doses of vitamin E working as a blocker of androgen receptors in our hairs, I've posted here and would appreciate Your thoughts regarding the theory..
http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showthread.php?t=7432

[2020]

I might have found a link between high doses of vitamin E working as a blocker of androgen receptors in our hairs, I've posted here and would appreciate Your thoughts regarding the theory..
http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showthread.php?t=7432

I'd like to believe that, but you're quoting this forum as your source...:)

[Conpecia]

Supposedly some doctors actually prescribe high doses of vitamin E to treat gynecomastia. Read the example here:
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/bodybuilding-supplements/vitamin-e-gyno-204242.html

So, I highly doubt that Your problem can be caused by vitamin E.
You should check the other stuff, something else You're using might be causing it.

Yeah I read that last night after I posted, so I doubt it could come from tocomin.

I'm most likely overreacting. Again it's not like these pictures on google of guys walking around that should give Kramer and Frank Costanza a large investment, it's just a little more tissue than I remember having three months ago, even though I've lost weight. Most likely muscle mass lost. When you take stuff you become hypersensitive to any change in your body.

I also was under the impression that propecia would cause man boobs right off the bat, not 6 years down the line.

[clandestine]

Conpecia; how goes it mate? Anything to report?

[Conpecia]

Unfortunately I've had some health issues the past couple weeks and have had to discontinue all treatments, including the tocomin, though it's very unlikely that the tocomin was causing anything. As soon as I'm feeling better I'll restart the 8 month experiment. Sorry to all who were waiting on results, but I've got to figure out what's going on with my health first. I'll update again once I'm cleared of all symptoms.

[2020]

conpecia, which toco vitamins were you using? If it's toco-sorb or anything that is NOT REAL PATENTED TOCO-8, you are wasting time...

[Conpecia]

I was using a different brand and yes there was that issue of it not being toco-8 but in the week or two I took it I definitely grew new hair on my chest and seemed to be getting bumps on my temples indicating that something was going on. I think the key factor is that the product should be tocomin suprabio and nothing else but again I may be wrong. One of the things I was testing for was to see if that was the case or if you actually needed toco 8 but alas I have to wait until I get healed up to have a definitive answer for you guys.

[StressedToTheBald]

Unfortunately I've had some health issues the past couple weeks and have had to discontinue all treatments, including the tocomin, though it's very unlikely that the tocomin was causing anything. As soon as I'm feeling better I'll restart the 8 month experiment. Sorry to all who were waiting on results, but I've got to figure out what's going on with my health first. I'll update again once I'm cleared of all symptoms.

What else was included in Your treatment besides tocomin ?

[Conpecia]

Propecia, Nizoral shampoo. Been on the Propecia for about 5 years. Nizoral about 4 months. Waiting for lab results from the doc.

[StressedToTheBald]

Propecia, Nizoral shampoo. Been on the Propecia for about 5 years. Nizoral about 4 months. Waiting for lab results from the doc.

Please update us once the results are out, my bet would be on propecia..

[StressedToTheBald]

Variety of possible Propecia side effects:

"Side effects of finasteride include impotence (1.1% to 18.5%), abnormal ejaculation (7.2%), decreased ejaculatory volume (0.9% to 2.8%), abnormal sexual function (2.5%), gynecomastia (2.2%), erectile dysfunction (1.3%), ejaculation disorder (1.2%) and testicular pain... The PPI also states that patients have reported persisting erectile dysfunction despite discontinuing the drug. In December 2010, Merck added depression as a side effect of finasteride.[6]"

[Maradona]

definitely the propecia dude i got almost all the side effects stressedtobebald mentioned, he missed brain fog though but i recuperated well.

lay off the propecia and see where that takes ya.

[2020]

Variety of possible Propecia side effects:

"Side effects of finasteride include impotence (1.1% to 18.5%), abnormal ejaculation (7.2%), decreased ejaculatory volume (0.9% to 2.8%), abnormal sexual function (2.5%), gynecomastia (2.2%), erectile dysfunction (1.3%), ejaculation disorder (1.2%) and testicular pain... The PPI also states that patients have reported persisting erectile dysfunction despite discontinuing the drug. In December 2010, Merck added depression as a side effect of finasteride.[6]"

why do you go around scaring people about taking propecia....I already explained to you the reason some people get "persisting" effects.

Propecia is a safe drug. Can you name another PRESCRIPTION drug with less side effects?

[AgainstThis]

Yeah, it's safe, that's why they took propecia.com down and are losing lawsuits left and right.

Get with the program Harrisson. Propecia was cool back when it was launched as the MIRACLE PILL but the cat was out of the bag soon enough.

It makes no sense that people in 2012 are still on that man-poison.

[clandestine]

Yeah, it's safe, that's why they took propecia.com down and are losing lawsuits left and right.

Get with the program Harrisson. Propecia was cool back when it was launched as the MIRACLE PILL but the cat was out of the bag soon enough.

It makes no sense that people in 2012 are still on that man-poison.

Propecia is rather helpful for those who don't have incidence of sides actually.

But let's keep the discussion oriented towards tocotrienols. I've ordered some in hopes of testing efficacy. I will start taking daily as soon as they arrive.

[StressedToTheBald]

Yeah, it's safe, that's why they took propecia.com down and are losing lawsuits left and right.

Get with the program Harrisson. Propecia was cool back when it was launched as the MIRACLE PILL but the cat was out of the bag soon enough.

It makes no sense that people in 2012 are still on that man-poison.

Exactly. Well said.

[Conpecia]

Propecia is rather helpful for those who don't have incidence of sides actually.

But let's keep the discussion oriented towards tocotrienols. I've ordered some in hopes of testing efficacy. I will start taking daily as soon as they arrive.

Way to carry on my friend. I'll be interested in seeing how things work. I myself will hopefully be good to go in two or three weeks and will restart the 8 month trial.

[clandestine]

Way to carry on my friend. I'll be interested in seeing how things work. I myself will hopefully be good to go in two or three weeks and will restart the 8 month trial.

No worries. Problem with me is I really need to find a retailer that carries them in Canada if I hope to be in this for the long term. For the first batch I've had to ship from the US, as you can imagine this is extremely costly.

[NotBelievingIt]

But let's keep the discussion oriented towards tocotrienols. I've ordered some in hopes of testing efficacy. I will start taking daily as soon as they arrive.

What else are you doing? Testing the efficacy claims of hair growth from this while taking anything else seems iffy, unless you've been just using fin and not seeing any loss or growth.

Now me...I'm considering this after discovering it here. Right now I am...adverse...to screwing with my hormones chemically. If doing something natural screws with my hormones fine. Not chemically.

[clandestine]

What else are you doing? Testing the efficacy claims of hair growth from this while taking anything else seems iffy, unless you've been just using fin and not seeing any loss or growth.

Now me...I'm considering this after discovering it here. Right now I am...adverse...to screwing with my hormones chemically. If doing something natural screws with my hormones fine. Not chemically.

Not taking anything else currently.

As I've mentioned though, I'll only be able to continue any sort of trial if I can eventually find a retailer somewhere in Canada.

[EXprettyboy]

I've been on toco 8 for 3 weeks now. Beard growth has indeed accelerated. Temples stubbling with miniature bristles. promising.

I must admit I have resumed my regimen with renewed vigor and added several new agents so I can't report on toco 8 under controlled experiment conditions. My logic is simple; they all probably work modestly in their own right by different mechanisms... BUT I don't have time to test each individually and be repeatedly disappointed; My ONLY chance at cosmetically significant improvements is to blitz everything.

I never touched propecia.

Survive this next stretch of 1 or 2 years and a real solution will hopefully redeem us entirely.

[clandestine]

I've been on toco 8 for 3 weeks now. Beard growth has indeed accelerated. Temples stubbling with miniature bristles. promising.

I must admit I have resumed my regimen with renewed vigor and added several new agents so I can't report on toco 8 under controlled experiment conditions. My logic is simple; they all probably work modestly in their own right by different mechanisms... BUT I don't have time to test each individually and be repeatedly disappointed; My ONLY chance at cosmetically significant improvements is to blitz everything.

I never touched propecia.

Survive this next stretch of 1 or 2 years and a real solution will hopefully redeem us entirely.

Don't be afraid to disclose your current regimen mate. I for one am curious, as I'm sure others may be.

[Jcm800]

Yeah even tho I felt ripped off with TRX2 lol I'm willing to take a punt on this stuff, seems cheap n cheerful.

So what's the 'best' brand that can be ordered from the UK anyone?

[Maradona]

I've been on toco 8 for 3 weeks now. Beard growth has indeed accelerated. Temples stubbling with miniature bristles. promising.

I must admit I have resumed my regimen with renewed vigor and added several new agents so I can't report on toco 8 under controlled experiment conditions. My logic is simple; they all probably work modestly in their own right by different mechanisms... BUT I don't have time to test each individually and be repeatedly disappointed; My ONLY chance at cosmetically significant improvements is to blitz everything.

I never touched propecia.

Survive this next stretch of 1 or 2 years and a real solution will hopefully redeem us entirely.

man i thought this was snake oil in pill form but i wanna buy it now.
Share your regimen with your bald brothers man.

[2020]

To all those people who reported thicker beard growth: that is a bad sign!

Apparently tocotrienols INCREASE testosterone production:
http://www.hairloss-research.org/UpdateTrocotrienols4-08.html

that's why your hair elsewhere gets thicker while the hair on your scalp gets thinner... the cause of that is extra testosterone

[StressedToTheBald]

Now me...I'm considering this after discovering it here. Right now I am...adverse...to screwing with my hormones chemically. If doing something natural screws with my hormones fine. Not chemically.

I'm 'screwing' my hormones naturally via beta sitosterol, saw palmetto, also soon will include ganoderma lucidum.. they all are proven DHT combatants. Still roughly in my 1st month here..

[EXprettyboy]

Nothing will reverse a bald scalp right now.... I know this.

But if your on the threshold, you can halt the progress and rejuvenate what you've got to some degree. So a troubled young man, receding and thinning, should be able to buy them-self some time and peace with an intensive regimen.

1. Rogaine extra strength.
(I use too much of this and it has given me hair where I don't want it. I don't care cause I can get that removed).

2. [Resveratrol maximum strength] + [curcumin]
the combination is patented in Italy for hair loss. Expensive combo but definitely helped me somewhat. Resveratrol has a powerful antioxidant affect. Raises testosterone, burns fat, activates sirt 1 gene that supposedly improves health and slows cellular aging.

3. Lasers
I used a hairmax laser comb for a long time and saw nothing. After further research I realized that the studies showing laser light to be beneficial delivered 7 joules of energy per 2cm squared. 5 diode combs deliver about 0.5 of a joule in a 20 minute session which is useless. I'm just finishing my homemade 170 diode helmet which I have high hopes for. theres a site that shows how to make one thats easy to find. a single diode costs about $3. A tricky expensive project.

4. Toco 8
Apart from what we've heard here it increases testosterone, Is another powerful antioxidant, supposedly lengthens telomeres of DNA (slows aging).

5. GROH hair and nails
Expensive. Marketed for women to improve hair health. looks like a total gimick. Recently pateted for hairloss though. big antioxidant. unique form of vitamin d. just started taking it last week.

6. Acai berry
Big antioxidant in my antioxidant flood.

7. Fish oils omega 3 6 9
No direct hairloss benefit, but apparently improves the skin and hairs quality, amongst a host of other benefits most notably sharpening the mind.

8. Drop free radical vices ie smoking or any other obviously unhealthy habits.


good luck

[2020]

I'm 'screwing' my hormones naturally via beta sitosterol, saw palmetto, also soon will include ganoderma lucidum.. they all are proven DHT combatants. Still roughly in my 1st month here..


.... Some men taking saw palmetto as an alternative treatment for an enlarged prostate and other health conditions have experienced sexual side effects, such as erectile dysfunction, discomfort in and around the testicles and changes in sexual desire, according to the National Institutes of Health.....

... Beta-sitosterol has also been linked to reports of erectile dysfunction (ED) and loss of interest in sex....

[Kirby_]

.... Some men taking saw palmetto as an alternative treatment for an enlarged prostate and other health conditions have experienced sexual side effects, such as erectile dysfunction, discomfort in and around the testicles and changes in sexual desire, according to the National Institutes of Health.....

... Beta-sitosterol has also been linked to reports of erectile dysfunction (ED) and loss of interest in sex....

I had massively worse problems dabbling with Saw Palmetto than I've ever had with fin, side effects just like the ones you mention 2020, including nipple pains. Wish I'd never tried that awful stuff.

[StressedToTheBald]

Studies have been done showing that neither saw palmetto nor beta sitosterol induce serious or permanent effects as does propecia.

I have used saw palmetto in tea form, now I'm using it in tablet form, and I'm perfectly fine. Same goes for beta sitosterol, no problems whatsoever !

[2020]

Studies have been done showing that neither saw palmetto nor beta sitosterol induce serious or permanent effects as does propecia.


same was done with propecia... in all of those studies, NO ONE got PERSISTENT side effects...


I have used saw palmetto in tea form, now I'm using it in tablet form, and I'm perfectly fine. Same goes for beta sitosterol, no problems whatsoever !

yes, and I've been using fin for quite some time and have zero problems as well...

[gutted]

same was done with propecia... in all of those studies, NO ONE got PERSISTENT side effects...



yes, and I've been using fin for quite some time and have zero problems as well...

side effects from both beta sis and propecia are ONLY noticed when discontinued after years of usage. The latter, propecia, more prononouced side effects occur.

Most people on propecia will "ride out" the sides and in the majority, the sides do go away due to hyperandrogeneicity taking place, testosterone is increased (libido is enhaced etc) and thus, they presume they are side effect free. But once they stop propecia they will notice these said side effects.

[StressedToTheBald]

side effects from both beta sis and propecia are ONLY noticed when discontinued after years of usage. The latter, propecia, more prononouced side effects occur.

Most people on propecia will "ride out" the sides and in the majority, the sides do go away due to hyperandrogeneicity taking place, testosterone is increased (libido is enhaced etc) and thus, they presume they are side effect free. But once they stop propecia they will notice these said side effects.

Yeah, and all people who eat plenty of avocados end up impotent after they stop... Do not compare beta sitosterol and propecia in a way thats utterly inappropriate...

Beta sitosterol is safe.
Propecia is a hazardous drug that will soon be banned.

[2020]

Propecia is a hazardous drug that will soon be banned.

There has been at least THREE LONG TERM studies with THOUSANDS OF SUBJECTS and only a tiny minority of them got side effects which went away after dropping fin....
If propecia was a hazardous drug, more people would have got PERMANENT side effects but so far no one did.
THOSE ARE THE FACTS.

fucks sake, i'm either arguing with a troll or a retarded person

[Winston]

Yeah, and all people who eat plenty of avocados end up impotent after they stop... Do not compare beta sitosterol and propecia in a way thats utterly inappropriate...

Beta sitosterol is safe.
Propecia is a hazardous drug that will soon be banned.

It has long been established that Beta-sitosteral can cause loss of libido and impotence in some men who use the compound. Please get your facts straight and stop spreading misinformation on this forum!

Just like Propecia, Beta-sitosterol is LIKELY SAFE for most people when taken by mouth, however some men can not tolerate it.

Since these dietary supplements are not regulated by the FDA it is possible that they are far more dangerous to experiment with than a regulated product.

http://prostate.emedtv.com/beta-sitosterol/beta-sitosterol-side-effects.html

Can you please keep your uneducated opinions to a single thread on this forum? You are spamming every thread and it's unfair to people trying find accurate information.

[gutted]

Yeah, and all people who eat plenty of avocados end up impotent after they stop... Do not compare beta sitosterol and propecia in a way thats utterly inappropriate...

Beta sitosterol is safe.
Propecia is a hazardous drug that will soon be banned.

what i meant to say was that beta sis/saw pal does affect the body in the same way propecia does, hence why in high, consistent doeses of beta sis this can have the same affect as propecia does. Im talking from personal experience.
i agree with you, propecia is much much more potent, to replicate the potency of propecia would require quite a considerable amount of beta sis.
A small amount, here and there, WILL NOT affect you. But CONSISTENT high amounts WILL affect you.

The fact remians though, everyone is different, they have different tolerance levels to the amount that will affect them.

I do believe ALOT of people take propecia thinking they're not being affected in anyway, (at the early stages of propecia use, in some people it causes an INCREASE in SEX DRIVE, Stronger erections, hence why they believe there not being affected in that department etc) but once they stop after years of use, when the body tries to return to normal, in some people, it wont be able to.

Theres some info that i read, about fin/propecia being used to treat prostate cancer, and in some of the cancer cases, the drug stops working for some individuals and the cancer progresses.

[NotBelievingIt]

Propecia is a hazardous drug that will soon be banned.

Gonna have to disagree with you on that.

While the side effects may be permanent in some, for reasons we do not know, that does not mean it will be banned.

Chemotherapy is deadly to some people also, but its still used.

[2020]

Gonna have to disagree with you on that.

While the side effects may be permanent in some, for reasons we do not know, that does not mean it will be banned.

Chemotherapy is deadly to some people also, but its still used.

seriously.... do you know how many PRESCRIPTION ONLY drugs have caused deaths and yet they're still on the market??
Propecia will never be banned, you are wasting your time.

[NotBelievingIt]

seriously.... do you know how many PRESCRIPTION ONLY drugs have caused deaths and yet they're still on the market??
Propecia will never be banned, you are wasting your time.

Focus your quoting on the person who said it would be banned. I agree with you, it won't be banned. But that doesn't mean it won't come with much more serious side effect labeling.

[bananana]

OMG guys.
I just had to register to tell you - STICK TO THE SUBJECT!
Jesus, you're arguing on propecia on tocotrienol topic!

This is a rare great topic on a product that is potentially beneficial,
and pretty unknown - please dont screw it up with some small talk,
you have propecia subject - go argue there.

This is a TOCO ONLY subject and we come here to seek relevant info,
and progress updates from users.
NOT to browse through 21 page of your giberish, dissing each other etc.

PLEASE - KEEP THIS TOPIC CLEAN!

[AgainstThis]

I'm getting started on Tocotrienols next month and I promise I'll keep you fully updated. I'm taking the exact same compound they were giving the people in the study someone mentioned before and no it doesn't *ABSOLUTELY* have to be Toco-8 :D

[clandestine]

OMG guys.
I just had to register to tell you - STICK TO THE SUBJECT!
Jesus, you're arguing on propecia on tocotrienol topic!

This is a rare great topic on a product that is potentially beneficial,
and pretty unknown - please dont screw it up with some small talk,
you have propecia subject - go argue there.

This is a TOCO ONLY subject and we come here to seek relevant info,
and progress updates from users.
NOT to browse through 21 page of your giberish, dissing each other etc.

PLEASE - KEEP THIS TOPIC CLEAN!

Thanks brah. People often seem to delve into some propecia related discussion any time it's mentioned around here.

[Winston]

OMG guys.
I just had to register to tell you - STICK TO THE SUBJECT!
Jesus, you're arguing on propecia on tocotrienol topic!

This is a rare great topic on a product that is potentially beneficial,
and pretty unknown - please dont screw it up with some small talk,
you have propecia subject - go argue there.

This is a TOCO ONLY subject and we come here to seek relevant info,
and progress updates from users.
NOT to browse through 21 page of your giberish, dissing each other etc.

PLEASE - KEEP THIS TOPIC CLEAN!

The problem is that stressedtobebald is derailing every thread on this forum with his rhetoric. I wish he would just keep it to a single thread! It’s so disruptive to the entire forum.

[bananana]

I appreciate this guys.

But I know the deal - I read the whole 21 pages. Lets just try to stick to the subject, dont add more fuel to pointless flaming and trolling on thread-unrelated stuff.

I've been on various forums since 2001; and I know what it can turn to if admins
dont keep order.

Anyways, I'm looking forward to reading more experiences on tocotrienol and any related info.

Also I'm looking for the best "bang for the buck" supplier that delivers to southeastern europe. I'm thinking about ordering from US, but the shipping is kinda high (~$30).

Thanks to everyone and lets keep this forum a good source of quality info. ;)

[2020]

I'm getting started on Tocotrienols next month and I promise I'll keep you fully updated. I'm taking the exact same compound they were giving the people in the study someone mentioned before and no it doesn't *ABSOLUTELY* have to be Toco-8 :D

It ABSOLUTELY has to be Toco-8.... that's what I'm been trying to tell you all this time.
Compare the ingredients and you will see that toco-sorb and all those other toco variations differ from toco-8.

[2020]

What does everyone think about the fact that toco-8 actually RAISES testosterone? That cannot be good for hair...

[2020]

Thanks for sharing! I think your teachings could help a lot of people around the world.
Spiritual Teachers

why!??!?!?

[EXprettyboy]

What does everyone think about the fact that toco-8 actually RAISES testosterone? That cannot be good for hair...

Testosterone and the notorious potent form DHT are wonderful androgens with one only to well known drawback.....

Eh .."certain", treatments have sought the elimination of these great hormones to eradicate their 1 drawback (balding), with devastating consequences for some unfortunate males.

IF only their was some treatments out there that interfered with DHT's interaction at the site of hairloss, yet did not reduce it. Imagine treatments that had testosterone boosting side affects.... but wait > Toco....

I personally embrace any treatment that boosts testosterone yet ironically reverses hair loss. And then I hit the gym with abandon, fearless of androgen sensitivity knowing that's no longer an issue due to the interventions of my new medicines. :D

[UK_]

During foetal development every male starts to develop androgen-resistant hairs, how on earth medical science can reverse-engineer this natural process and actually mimic it in the lab is beyond me. Trying to recreate a hair follicle in the lab with every intricate function working like clockwork is like looking for a small piece of hay in a very large pile of needles whilst wearing boxing gloves.

Evan Lausters lab-generated hair did not contain EVERY aspect of the follicle that the human body can just create with such seeming ease. We'll be needing the help of the bodies own physiological functions to 'cure' hair loss; "a dose of what works well there, here".

[StressedToTheBald]

During embrionic development is the only stage in life where DHT seems to play a positive role. Beyond that, in adult males.. its either responsible for baldness or prostate cancer.. either way it does no one no good !

[NotBelievingIt]

What does everyone think about the fact that toco-8 actually RAISES testosterone? That cannot be good for hair...

Its not exactly Toco8 that does it, its Vitamin E.

It helps boost T because it helps the body metabolize to it better.

[StressedToTheBald]

Vitamin E might also play a role in boosting nitric oxide as well as blocking androgen receptors. What dosage would be suitable for that.. most likely very high !

[EXprettyboy]

During embrionic development is the only stage in life where DHT seems to play a positive role. Beyond that, in adult males.. its either responsible for baldness or prostate cancer.. either way it does no one no good !

......If that were true... it's depletion would be of no consequence.

Lets not fear what the male body naturally produces. DHT is not the problem, our evolutionary scalp sensitivity to it is. It's a vestigial trait that is no longer of benefit.

http://www.mikemahler.com/online-library/articles/hormone-optimization/dihydrotestosterone-king-of-male-androgens.html

tocotrienols are a treatment option for those who despise the notion of reducing our androgens, and it is apparent that we are plentiful. So at worst people at least have a choice in their regimen recruiting, whereas before the only choice people had was basically anti-androgens or nothing!

[clandestine]

Also I'm looking for the best "bang for the buck" supplier that delivers to southeastern europe. I'm thinking about ordering from US, but the shipping is kinda high (~$30).

Uhg, same issue. I feel your international shipping prices pain.

[NotBelievingIt]

Toco8

I noticed amazon.com is out now and I frankly don't want to sign up anywhere else just to order that one product....

Wondering how much more potent Toco8 is compared to another Complete Vitamin E complex.

Tocotreinols are Tocotreinols

[AgainstThis]

This is where I'm ordering from for Europe : http://www.lefeurope.com/product_info.php/language/en//products_id/116802

It's the same compound that was used in that promising study. Fingers crossed :)

[2020]

"....Vitamin E can improve hair follicle micro circulation, ensure sufficient nutrition supply hair follicle, make the hair regeneration. Simple alopecia areata is caused by small angiogenesis contraction, and it can be cured by apply natural vitamin E and eating food contain rich vitamin E....."

interesting...

[Jcm800]

Tks for the heads up Against - i've just ordered some from here http://www.victoriahealth.com/product/Super-Absorbable-Tocotrienols/7917/0/

Fck it - might be gnats piss in a capsule but i'll give it a try.

[2020]

VitaCost is having a sale:

http://www.vitacost.com/Jarrow-Formulas-Toco-Sorb

$13.96 for 60 pills (46% off).

^ If you take 2 of those a day then it may amount to the same amount that toco-8 has...

[Conpecia]

VitaCost is having a sale:

http://www.vitacost.com/Jarrow-Formulas-Toco-Sorb

$13.96 for 60 pills (46% off).

^ If you take 2 of those a day then it may amount to the same amount that toco-8 has...

Welly welly well, my droogs. Look who decided to use his malenky gulliver for once and peet tocos like the rest of his brothers...

[bananana]

Conpecia - please dont start again.

Guys, I've found it somewhat cheaper at swanson:
http://www.swansonvitamins.com/mobile/itemdetail/JR097.html (this is a mobile link - I'm on iphone)
Shipping to my part of the world is ~$28,
I'm thinking about ordering 6 packs right away, so I'm good for at least 6 monts.

Other sources you mentioned (except vitacost) are way too expensive.
~$50 for 1 month supply + shipping is off my chart.

I really hope cheaper version works as good as the other one does.

[2020]

http://www.mikemahler.com/online-library/articles/hormone-optimization/dihydrotestosterone-king-of-male-androgens.html


...If you are prone to baldness, tocotrienols are a must. Tocotreienols are a special form of Vitamin E that help with hair growth and slowing down hair loss. Men that are prone to baldness will accelerate hair loss with ramped up DHT levels. If you are not prone to baldness then it will not likely be an issue....

can't be.. :confused:

[NotBelievingIt]

Can't be what?

He's simply saying as part of the whole context that increased androgen receptor uptake with increased testosterone and thus DHT will accelerate hair loss, thats all - and why he recommends tocotreinol supplementation.

[2020]

Can't be what?

He's simply saying as part of the whole context that increased androgen receptor uptake with increased testosterone and thus DHT will accelerate hair loss, thats all - and why he recommends tocotreinol supplementation.

right, but how could it possibly slow down balding??
We know that it doesn't block DHT (probably increases it), so how would it work for your hair? Does it make your follicles more resistant to DHT or what?

This goes against everything we know... :confused:

[NotBelievingIt]

Vitamin E helps promote circulation in the scalp and Vitamin E in general is good for healthy growth of hair.

So by virtue of improving the health of existing hair, it will slow the process down since the DHT strangulation that goes on will take longer.

It might even have the potential to strengthen resistance against DHT and therefore "bring back to life" (at least somewhat) hairs that have miniturized greatly. Likely they would never return to their full size, but even the smaller hairs becoming fuller and thicker would help diminish the appearance of loss.

Since there has been no controlled study its tough to say, plus it appears these full complex Vitamin E supplements with high tocotreinol uptake have only been around a few years now and more popular in the body building world. It will take time to shift out of that since that world is full of supplement this, supplement that.

Shampoos that improve volume only have Vitamin E tocopherols in them since they are far more easier to find in nature, so we might start seeing hair products with the -treinols in them one of these days.

[StressedToTheBald]

Shampoos that improve volume only have Vitamin E tocopherols in them since they are far more easier to find in nature, so we might start seeing hair products with the -treinols in them one of these days.

I think I might have mixed E vitamins in my MSM balm.

[Jcm800]

My caps arrived just now. Talk about fast delivery!

Anyway I'll start popping them and see if anything occurs.

[Maradona]

My caps arrived just now. Talk about fast delivery!

Anyway I'll start popping them and see if anything occurs.

Let us know broseph.

[Jcm800]

Let us know broseph.

Just popped two today and sprouted an affro ;)

Sure I'll keep updates coming dude.

[Zed]

i'm in uk and thinking of ordering toco 8 or toco sorb. which one is known to be more effective and can you buy at any shops in uk? like body building shops even?

[NotBelievingIt]

i'm in uk and thinking of ordering toco 8 or toco sorb. which one is known to be more effective and can you buy at any shops in uk? like body building shops even?

AFAIK the only difference between the two is the dosage. It uses the same underlying source (Carotech).

60 servings of Toco 8 has a roughly double the -pherol and -trienol counts that Toco Sorb does at 60 servings as well.

But Toco Sorb costs half as much, so if you match the dose, the cost is basically the same.

But like any other non-medicine there have been no studies that indicate whether Toco Sorb has the same effect as Toco 8 at their standard dosing. Plus the additional benefit of the -trienols apparently have only been known now for 2-3 years and only gained attention for benefits of hair growth promotion within maybe the last 1-2 years.

[2020]

AFAIK the only difference between the two is the dosage. It uses the same underlying source (Carotech).

60 servings of Toco 8 has a roughly double the -pherol and -trienol counts that Toco Sorb does at 60 servings as well.

But Toco Sorb costs half as much, so if you match the dose, the cost is basically the same.

But like any other non-medicine there have been no studies that indicate whether Toco Sorb has the same effect as Toco 8 at their standard dosing. Plus the additional benefit of the -trienols apparently have only been known now for 2-3 years and only gained attention for benefits of hair growth promotion within maybe the last 1-2 years.

Toco-8 comes in a powder so it absorbs much MUCH better than those plastic pills from toco-sorb.......

[yeahyeahyeah]

Toco-8 comes in a powder so it absorbs much MUCH better than those plastic pills from toco-sorb.......

I have ordered the powder, checked out a lot of body building forums. Seems like everybody is saying good things about this. Not read any bad reviews.

http://www.google.co.uk/products/catalog?hl=en&q=toco+8&gs_sm=3&gs_upl=153l1182l0l1353l6l6l0l0l0l0l409l1783l3-4.1l5l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&biw=1366&bih=667&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=501504837806558656&sa=X&ei=hmlCT6L3EYSs0QXXh7yPDw&ved=0CD4Q8wIwAQ

I have very mild hairloss (mature hairline), and as I am looking to start working out-hard at the gym, I am using this for preventative measures if anything.

Will keep you guys updated.

[bananana]

Toco-8 comes in a powder so it absorbs much MUCH better than those plastic pills from toco-sorb.......

Is that a fact or a presumption?
Source of that information?

Until I get home and order (probably) toco sorb, I bought a small can of vitamin E (d-alpha tocopherol - 400 IU - 1333%,
d-beta tocopherol, d-gamma and d-delta tocopherol - 67 mg)

What do you think - do tocopherols have similar effect as tocotrienols (probably not) and could I take these vitamins (until depleted) together with toco when it arrives? Or would it be too much of vitamin E - since this is already at 1333% daily value (keep in mind probably only 20-30% of that gets to blood stream)

[2020]

Is that a fact or a presumption?

That's a fact. Read about it on BodyBuilding forums.

I have ordered the powder, checked out a lot of body building forums. Seems like everybody is saying good things about this. Not read any bad reviews.


Apparently it also reversed grey hair for some people so yeah it's probably a fantastic vitamin, but I don't think it does much against MPB...
It's also quite expensive - $30/month.....

[yeahyeahyeah]

That's a fact. Read about it on BodyBuilding forums.



Apparently it also reversed grey hair for some people so yeah it's probably a fantastic vitamin, but I don't think it does much against MPB...
It's also quite expensive - $30/month.....

checked the ingredients it has beta-Sitosterol in there, a DHT blocker - is this harmful.

[Zoidberg]

I'm seriously considering adding Toco 8 to my already excessively long regimen, I'm not so interested in the capsules (toco sorb/ilfe extension) but it is expensive in the UK.
This is the cheapest I can find it, but does this site look dodgy to anybody else :confused:
http://www.blackbullnutrition.com/toco-8-38g-220-p.asp
Has anybody bought from this place?

[Zoidberg]

checked the ingredients it has beta-Sitosterol in there, a DHT blocker - is this harmful.

yeahyeahyeah, I take a saw palmetto complex that has beta-sis in it and have had no sides from it (other than a month of shedding in my first month of taking it). Like any DHT inhibitor I'm sure some people can be sensitive to it and get sides, however from what I have read it seems the levels of beta-sis are very low in any Toco product and so are unlikely to cause any side effects.

[2020]

checked the ingredients it has beta-Sitosterol in there, a DHT blocker - is this harmful.

only 8 mg though.... that's not nearly enough to make any impact on your DHT levels and your hair...

[NotBelievingIt]

That's a fact. Read about it on BodyBuilding forums.



Apparently it also reversed grey hair for some people so yeah it's probably a fantastic vitamin, but I don't think it does much against MPB...
It's also quite expensive - $30/month.....

I agree, that it likely doesn't combat the root (har har) of MPB, but if it promotes hair growth in other ways to "slow it down" thats at least one more bullet in the barrel.

[StressedToTheBald]

checked the ingredients it has beta-Sitosterol in there, a DHT blocker - is this harmful.

I use 510mg of beta sitosterol daily. Its safe.

[StressedToTheBald]

yeahyeahyeah, I take a saw palmetto complex that has beta-sis in it and have had no sides from it (other than a month of shedding in my first month of taking it). Like any DHT inhibitor I'm sure some people can be sensitive to it and get sides, however from what I have read it seems the levels of beta-sis are very low in any Toco product and so are unlikely to cause any side effects.

Same here. Both saw palmetto and beta sitosterol are safe. No significant nor permanent risks like with propecia.

[2020]

I use 510mg of beta sitosterol daily. Its safe.



It can cause some side effects, such as nausea, indigestion, gas, diarrhea, or constipation. Beta-sitosterol has also been linked to reports of erectile dysfunction (ED) and loss of interest in sex.

http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-supplements/ingredientmono-939-BETA-SITOSTEROL.aspx?activeIngredientId=939&activeIngredientName=BETA-SITOSTEROL

[willy]

I bought this stuff... kinda expensive. 40 dollars. Is this the right stuff?

[2020]

I bought this stuff... kinda expensive. 40 dollars. Is this the right stuff?


geez idk, compare the ingredients:

toco-3
http://astronutrition.com/aor-toco-3-nol-max-60-softgels.html

toco-8:
http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/primordial-performance/toco-8-38-g.html

don't look the same to me... why didn't you buy the original toco-8 especially when it's even cheaper than the one you bought? :confused: