Are there HT Doctors in the US that stand by their work

[Mr. 4000]

I know that in most cases everyone hopes for the best outcome for their patient, but are there any docs that 100% stand by their work? I see that H&W have a blurb on their site:

Best of all, our results are guaranteed!

THis way the patient goes in knowing that they are protected in some case even if it means getting a refund of some sort, if the doctor can't produce.

[Mr. 4000]

I didn't think so. SHow all these doctors are frauds. Can't stand behind their work.

Where are all the reps and docs spreading their propaganda now?

Come on stand behind your work docs.

[Weedwacker]

In my opinion, there should be a money back guarantee. The problem with this industry is results are subjective. It is hard to prove what a 'good' hair transplant actually is. The industry appears to lack adequate regulation.

[Mr. 4000]

In my opinion, there should be a money back guarantee. The problem with this industry is results are subjective. It is hard to prove what a 'good' hair transplant actually is. The industry appears to lack adequate regulation.

I disagree with this point, it is easy to tell what a good HT isn't. So how can it be so hard to deduct?

[blowmeup]

Saying the the “results are guaranteed” doesn’t really mean much. If the surgery goes wrong, how can and doctor guarantee that you won’t look worse? All they can guarantee is that you'll either get your money back or some free repair surgery. I think most doctors will do that anyway without offering a “guarantee”.

[Mr. 4000]

Saying the the “results are guaranteed” doesn’t really mean much. If the surgery goes wrong, how can and doctor guarantee that you won’t look worse? All they can guarantee is that you'll either get your money back or some free repair surgery. I think most doctors will do that anyway without offering a “guarantee”.

not true, my doctor was defensive and rude. He couldn't possibly been at fault for the awful result. It was my fault, I screwed up the surgery, right doc?

[KeepTheHair]

Hair transplants aren't an answer to hair loss.

[Mr. 4000]

Hair transplants aren't an answer to hair loss.

couldn't agree more, just one decision too late.

where are all the docs n this board? they don't want to join the discussion?

come on docs, we are all waiting for your input? :D

[t-bone]

We are lucky to have sites like this to keep th DR.s honest!
This industry needs to be accountable!

[DepressedByHairLoss]

I don't think they can guarantee results because hair transplants are such a shit procedure. So many things can go wrong, everything from permanent scarring, inability to generate any new hair, shock loss, transplanted hair falling out, and cobblestone marks. We really NEED some better options to treat hair loss!

[Mr. 4000]

I notice that docs haven't been posting as much lately.

Why? because they can't even stand behind their words let alone their work

and it can do is lead to lawsuits

isn't that right docs?

[DepressedByHairLoss]

Man, I really wish a doctor would come along and say: "Here's how we're gonna fix hair loss, and it's not gonna involve hair transplants".

[Tracy C]

Are there HT Doctors in the US that stand by their work

This is an unreasonable expectation. There are too many things that are outside of a doctor’s control. They are not making wigets. They are helping you treat and/or cover up an inherited physical trait that bothers you. They do the best they can with what your body gives them. Patient compliance plays a major role as well. Treating and/or covering up hair loss is neither a quick process nor an easy process.

[Mr. 4000]

This is an unreasonable expectation. There are too many things that are outside of a doctor’s control. They are not making wigets. They are helping you treat and/or cover up an inherited physical trait that bothers you. They do the best they can with what your body gives them. Patient compliance plays a major role as well. Treating and/or covering up hair loss is neither a quick process nor an easy process.

no it isn't, if they are honest

because if they can't do the job, all they need to do is say so....
doctors just need to be honest from the start, show their bad results not just the good results

give realistic expectations based on what they have been able to do on like minded characteristics of their past work.

It really isn't that hard. Don't waste the patients time and money.

[Jotronic]

All doctors and clinics should stand behind their work and not hide the fact like it's a state secret. When we say "results guaranteed" we are not guaranteeing that one will be completely satisfied. To say this outright would be wrong as it is impossible to predict if/when a patient will be happy.

As a consultant it is my job to utilize my experience and know-how to get into the patient's head (so to speak) as much as possible and try to determine whether or not we can deliver what he wants before he has his procedure. Great growth does not always equate to great results in the eyes of the patient as "great" is relative. If the patient is for some reason expecting a density or coverage that cannot be had with a given number of grafts, no matter how well it grows, then he won't be happy and somewhere along the line something in the process fell apart as the patient either failed to be properly educated or he failed to absorb the information properly. There are always two sides to a great result or a failed result and both are subject to interpretation.

[Tracy C]

This is an unreasonable expectation. There are too many things that are outside of a doctor’s control.

no it isn't, if they are honest.

Honesty on the doctor’s part is not enough. Honesty on the patient's part would also be needed. The patient also needs to be aware of and fully understand the possibilities and limitations. Judging from what I am reading in this forum, many neither understand enough or are aware enough of the possibilities or limitations.

There are always two sides to a great result or a failed result and both are subject to interpretation.

This is a very good reason why expecting a guarantee is an unreasonable expectation. Not the only reason but a very good reason.

[Mr. 4000]

Honesty on the doctor’s part is not enough. Honesty on the patient's part would also be needed. The patient also needs to be aware of and fully understand the possibilities and limitations. Judging from what I am reading in this forum, many neither understand enough or are aware enough of the possibilities or limitations.



This is a very good reason why expecting a guarantee is an unreasonable expectation. Not the only reason but a very good reason.

it is the law, the doctor or staff is responsible to educate the patient not the other way around.

[Tracy C]

it is the law, the doctor or staff is responsible to educate the patient not the other way around.

I do not know what made you think I suggested it was the other way around. Nothing I said suggested that.

The patient does have some responsibility here though. The patient is part of the team - and the patient needs to be an active member of that team. If the patient does not fully understand something the doctor or staff is telling them, the patient needs to speak up. It is not the doctor’s fault if the patient does not speak up when they do not fully understand. It is ultimately the patient’s decision to go through with the procedure. If a patient is not fully aware of and fully understand the possibilities and limitations, the patient should not go forward with the procedure.

If a doctor or their staff has intentionally miss-led a patient, that is a whole different story. But I don't think that is what we are talking about here. Or is it?

[DepressedByHairLoss]

As I've said before, there are several factors that go into this equation. For one, I just don't think that hair transplants are an effective solution at all for hair loss. A full head of hair consists of at least 100,000 follicles (maybe even more) and the most that I've seen a doctor transplant in one sitting is a bit over 4000 follicles. Transplantation simply does not yield nearly enough hair to achieve anything close to a full density of hair. That's why I hear a lot of doctors and others saying that a patient should go into a hair transplant "with reasonable expectations", which I translate to meaning 'don't expect anything close to original density'. Sure, I've seen some people with 10,000 or something total grafts that look pretty good, but those are few and far between. And that takes a whole world of commitment including a lifetime dedication to taking Propecia (so that the hair around the transplanted hair doesn't fall out) and permanent scarring that will never go away. Most doctors that I see on here transplant about 2000-something follicles in one sitting (a lot of them less), and those results look far from impressive and not worth getting my head permanently sliced and diced.

So with regards to this thread, I believe that a lot of doctors don't give you any type of guarantee because hair transplantation is far from a foolproof procedure. I've heard about stuff going wrong all the time (through posts on here), and IMO, the results are not at all worth the risk for a far from perfect result and permanent head scarring.

[RichardDawkins]

Not 100.000 follicles its 100.000 HAIRS thats the difference

[Tracy C]

I just don't think that hair transplants are an effective solution at all for hair loss.

It depends on the patient's current state of hair loss. It depends on how well the patient responds to treatments to arrest his or her hair loss. It depends on the patients expectations. Any patient who is expecting full density to be restored is going to be very disappointed. This is not yet possible. It probably won't be possible any time soon - if ever...

A patient with moderate hair loss who responds well to treatments to arrest hair loss can have excellent results from hair transplant surgery.

A patient with extensive hair loss who does not respond at all to treatments to arrest hair loss is not going to have results as good as the patient described above. Such a patient is more likely to be very dissatisfied with hair transplant surgery.




Transplantation simply does not yield nearly enough hair to achieve anything close to a full density of hair. That's why I hear a lot of doctors and others saying that a patient should go into a hair transplant "with reasonable expectations", which I translate to meaning 'don't expect anything close to original density'.

That is exactly what that means. There is no need to transplate it.

You and your doctor need to work together to do the best you can with what you've got. That is just the way it is. That's the way it is going to be for a while... Deal with it. Learn how to do the best you can with what you've got.

So, what stage are you? How long have you been at that stage? What are you doing about it?

[Mr. 4000]

Honesty on the doctor’s part is not enough. Honesty on the patient's part would also be needed.

this makes no sense at all Tracy C

I mean a patient is a patient. They want a cosmetic surgery and they want to look the best they can. That is universal in any procedure. Hair, nose, breasts, lipo, you name it.

So I think the strip patient is looking for a pencil thin scar with a ton of growth and the ability to cut short grow long and have a full head of hair. This is 100% of the time. FUE is looking for the same thing without the scar.

I don't know one patient that would love to come back for multiple surgeries and spend thousands of dollars and recovery time on a bunch of hacks.

So now that we have that out of the way, all that is left is the integrity of the doctors.

[Tracy C]

this makes no sense at all Tracy C.

After reading so many of your rantings I am not surprised that you don't get that.

[Mr. 4000]

After reading so many of your rantings I am not surprised that you don't get that.

let me hear your take on what the patients responsibility is Tracy?

Besides paying and hoping for the best result?

I would love to hear it....

[Tracy C]

You have already read some of it. But you are too unreasonable to comprehend what I said.

[DepressedByHairLoss]

Tracy C and Mr. 4000, I agree with elements of both of your points of view.

Tracy C: I'm not sure what Norwood stage I'm at, but I've been taking Propecia for a bit more than a year now. It may have slowed down my hair loss initially but recently I've been shedding like crazy. Plus, I've always been a big weightlifter and I think that Propecia is affecting my muscular structure and my lifting in the gym. I really don't think that a lot of these side effects from Propecia are unfounded as some people say. After all, Propecia drastically lowers a critical male hormone; a hormone that gives a man his masculine characteristics. That's actually one of the reasons why I could never do a hair transplant. I would almost have to make a lifelong commitment to Propecia to make sure that the native hair around the transplanted hair doesn't fall out. And since I'm very skeptical of Propecia's side effects, I definitely don't want to do that. But I'm still on Propecia nonetheless because I'm just petrified of becoming a bald man.

With regards to hair transplants, I just don't think that the results are worth the downsides most of the times. I've seen a lot of hair transplants on here, and IMO they don't look and don't even give an image of total coverage. Their aim is all about giving 'the illusion' of full coverage and that to me is not worth scarring my head for life or making a lifelong commitment to a hormone-altering drug.

In terms of new treatments, I really have no choice but to think positive. A life without hair is not worth living to me, so I really do have to think that one of these new companies, particularly Histogen and Replicel, will be able to put hair back on our heads. I can (and have) accepted a ton of shit in life, but hair loss is one thing that I cannot accept, and unfortunately today's treatments are very limited and mostly ineffective.


Mr. 4000 - You are totally right in that a patient should expect to achieve the best result possible. Unfortunately I've seen and heard of way too many people on here and elsewhere who have unfortunately had bad HT experiences. Now they would give anything to even just shave their heads, but they can't because of the linear scar. That's what I'm scared to death of man, permanently scarring my head for life. As I said before, I believe that doctors cannot give a 100% percent guarantee because the process of a hair transplant is far from foolproof and has way too many downsides. I see a lot of the hair transplant photos on here and for the most part, I am not impressed at all. And the few good results that I have seen are when people underwent multiple surgeries, and even then I'd need to make a lifelong commitment to Propecia, a drug that I am sure I am experiencing negatives side effects from.

I really feel for you with regards to your negative hair transplant experience, bro. I'm pretty sure that you are far from the only one who had such an experience. I was at a concert this summer and I saw a guy with a shaved head and a very visible linear scar. Before I experienced this hair loss curse, I wouldn't have known what the hell that was. But now, I knew exactly what it was and it scared me to death. Also, I wouldn't beat yourself up about getting an HT in the first place either. I've been experiencing this hair loss for about a year and a half now and it is absolutely making my life a living hell. So I don't blame you at all for trying to gain your hair back. The problem is that we are just so sick of this hair loss, yet there aren't any effective solutions available to us to regrow our hair. That's really what pisses me off more than anything.

[Tracy C]

...hair loss is one thing that I cannot accept, and unfortunately today's treatments are very limited and mostly ineffective.

It is an unfortunate reality that the current available treatments do not work for everyone. Be very glad you are not a woman... Thankfully the current available treatments have worked for me and I had great results from a very gifted hair restoration surgeon. No I do not have original density - but what I do have now does look good - and I do not need to wear wigs anymore if I don't want to. That, in and of itself, improved my “quality of life” dramatically...

[DepressedByHairLoss]

That's actually all I want, some kind of result that looks good so I can actually pose for photos and post photos on myspace/facebook like I used to.

[Tracy C]

That's actually all I want, some kind of result that looks good so I can...

Oh don't get me wrong, I do want more density - but what I have now still improves my quality of life dramtically from where I started. Imagine the thought of trying to go through life as a bald lady... This is a reality for some... :( It is no longer a reality for me... :cool:

[Mr. 4000]

If a doctor or their staff has intentionally miss-led a patient, that is a whole different story. But I don't think that is what we are talking about here. Or is it?

yes..........

[ejj]

if i could turn back the clock , i would have fue only , with an extremely reputable Dr who constantly produces good results and uses a manual punch no bigger than .8 mm in external diameter , i would take a go slow approach and only graft into the frontal forlock about an inch, possibly two, back from the frontal hairline . I think this is a safe way to weigh things up and with the progression of hairloss that is almost guaranteed ,you maintain the option to shave down later on in life if circumstances change

Thats what I wish i had done , hope it helps

Best
Ejj

[Mr. 4000]

ejj

that is a good post, some of these dreamers think strip is a valid option for most men and it isn't. It is high risk with a history of poor success.

Most doctors are turning to FUE because they know the facts, they see it in their office everyday.

With strip the results are temporary unless you are female or lucky

[Mr. 4000]

The patient does have some responsibility here though. The patient is part of the team - and the patient needs to be an active member of that team. If the patient does not fully understand something the doctor or staff is telling them, the patient needs to speak up. It is not the doctor’s fault if the patient does not speak up when they do not fully understand. It is ultimately the patient’s decision to go through with the procedure. If a patient is not fully aware of and fully understand the possibilities and limitations, the patient should not go forward with the procedure.


This statement is really disturbing, you are assuming the doctors are going to educate the patient on the thing that can go wrong, and show some patients that had poor result or even sued them for that matter.

They are selling a service and want big money, they want to profit, plain and simple. Especially in a tuff economy.

[DepressedByHairLoss]

This is why I'm so against these hair transplants; I hear so many people who regret even having them in the first place. And even if they do go right, you don't even get close to original density and you're scarred for life as well. It's so inexcusable, frustrating, and maddening that it is 2011 and we still don't have any kind of effective remedy for hair loss.

[Tracy C]

This statement is really disturbing, you are assuming the doctors are going to educate the patient on the thing that can go wrong, and show some patients that had poor result or even sued them for that matter.

There is nothing disturbing about that statement. You are reaching.

I am sorry you had such a bad experience. There is nothing I can do for you to make it better. However, for you to continue making the claim that your bad experience is typical is just plain unethical. If bad experiences such as yours were actually typical, hair transplant surgeons would have been put out of business a long time ago. The public would not tolerate it, plain and simple.



With strip the results are temporary unless you are female or lucky

This is a false statement.



that is a good post, some of these dreamers think strip is a valid option for most men and it isn't. It is high risk with a history of poor success.


This is another false statement. Though the risk with strip procedures is high, the success rate is actually very good. Mr. 4000's bad experience is NOT typical.

[Winston]

I think Tracy C is right-on with her statements. The problem here is that Mr. 4000 had what he considers to be a very bad outcome and has made it his life’s mission to trash hair transplants in general. We have never seen any of his before and after pictures so no one really knows how his hair transplant turned out. For all we know he could look great. He has posted inaccurate statements about hair transplant like Tracy C has pointed out including the ridiculous statement that “With strip the results are temporary unless you are female or lucky” and that “Most doctors are turning to FUE because they know the facts, they see it in their office everyday. (not even close to being true) And that FUT can “cause your hairline and sides to be pulled back exposing more temple area.” All completely inaccurate and false statements.

[ejj]

Unfortunatly the buisness of repairing poor hair transplants is still common .

I have had people contact me who are really upset with there results/donor scar , however for whatever reason , be it legal, or fear, do not share there results with the community , which is a shame , I wonder if the online community had a poll on how satisfied patients were what the results would be ?....

At the end of the day we can only hope for the best, and at best a 1 mm in width scar from ear to ear with guaranteed continual balding is unnaceptable to me as the more work you will definantly need in the future puts more pressure on the donor area increasing the risk of a poor scar with each procedure . I think as patients get more educated the demand for FUE is rising forcing Drs to offer it , hence the continual release of new ` fue auto ` tools ,scribes , robots etc `

I have seen good strip procedures but it does concern me seeing patients with there hairline lowered, or temples filled in with 2k grafts or norwood 3`s having lots of grafts , there locked in to further work later on in life

regards ejj

[gmonasco]

If bad experiences such as yours were actually typical, hair transplant surgeons would have been put out of business a long time ago. The public would not tolerate it, plain and simple.

Not necessarily. The public may not be aware such experiences might be typical, as HT surgeons obviously feature only their best results in their presentations to prospective patients. Publicizing bad results is up to the individual patients who have suffered them, and who often lack the motivation or desire to do so.

[Mr. 4000]

and are often PAID OFF to do so


Dr. Alexander tried to buy my silence

this is something I can prove, because I told him I would sign off

he mailed me the papers with a dollar amount and other terms

I keep the papers but never signed them

I also have him in a recorded phone conversation addressing the issue as well

[Mr. 4000]

I was wondering if we could see you photos Tracy C and Winston

I mean you seam to be very happy yet Tracy you even sited that you density isn't what it used to be and could be better.

Winston I think I recall you saying that you had HT's before but could you tell us about your experiences?

[Tracy C]

I mean you seam to be very happy yet Tracy you even sited that you density isn't what it used to be and could be better.

I am happy with what Dr. Haber was able to do for me. Yes I would like more density. However, I went into this very well aware that it is not yet possible to restore original density. Dr. Haber didn't lie to me. He was honest and truthful. He made sure to explain everything to me. I made sure I understood everything he told me. He was honest with me and I was honest with him. It was a team effort.

Mr. 4000, you are an extraordinarily unreasonable person. I am truly sorry for what happened to you. However I am now convinced that there was no way you were ever going to be happy no matter what the outcome of your surgery was.

[DepressedByHairLoss]

I dunno but personally I think Mr. 4000 is legit. After all, he invites Dr. Alexander to come on here to discuss his situation yet I don't see the doctor rebutting his claims at all. I see Dr. Alexander all over the place on here, yet he does not come on to refute Mr. 4000's claims. If some one was supposedly spreading lies about me on here, then I would be very quick to point out that those claims were false.
In terms of botched hair transplants, I believe that they are still as prevalent as ever. There are people all over the internet (and on this website) that are victims of botched transplants. After all, Bosley is generating millions of dollars with their transplants and people on here know what a piece-of-shit, unethical company that they are. I just don't think that a lot of people are aware of all the butchery that goes on in the hair transplant industry, especially with regards to chain facilities like Bosley and NHI. Hell even some dermatologists are clueless with regards to this. Case in point: I went to see my dermatologist about a month ago to get my Propecia prescription re-filled and I was talking to her about ways to treat hair loss. She suggested a hair transplant and stated that Bosley "has a great reputation and is a very ethical company". It's a shame when even dermatologists are unaware of the unethical nature of a good deal of the hair restoration industry.

[Tracy C]

I dunno but personally I think Mr. 4000 is legit.

For the record, I don't know if Mr. 4000 is legit or not. He hasn't provided any proof. However, he has demonstrated that he is an extraordinarily unreasonable person. That makes it very difficult to tell if he is legit or not - or if his story is an exaggeration or not... That does not change how sorry I feel about what happened to him though.

From a professional and legal stand point, Dr. Alexander is doing the right thing by staying quiet about it. It is in his best interest to speak only to people of authority concerning this matter. Every conflict has at least two sides to the story. The truth has a way of working its way to the surface eventually.

[DepressedByHairLoss]

Fair enough. I forgot to consider the legal ramifications of keeping quiet. But I think we can establish that at least Mr. 4000 did have a hair transplant from Dr. Alexander. If this wasn't the case, then I don't see what kind of negative legal ramifications it would have for Dr. Alexander to say "I've never met this guy, he never came into my office, I don't know who he is". But yeah, I totally sympathize with Mr. 4000's situation; bad hair transplants can cause a lifetime of permanent damage.