Propecia Side Effects - Fact Or Fiction

[tbtadmin]

Fear mongering anti-Propecia videos and websites are popping up all over the internet making the decision to effectively treat hair loss even more confusing. Should consumers be legitimately concerned by claims of permanent long term adverse side effects from the drug, or are these videos and websites simply agenda driven anti-Propecia propaganda?IAHRS accepted member [...]

More... (http://www.thebaldtruth.com/articles/propecia-side-effects-fact-or-fiction/)

[christinedwrds]

you know its really scary. my husband is only 42 but he's lost most of his hair, he had to get his head shaved so it won't be too obvious. He's actually suffering a depression because of this. I checked online and found out about propecia. I know that it is really effective but I also saw its side effects. Now I'm not really sure if these are true or just rumors. I hope someone who's tried propecia before can tell us more about this product.

[screwthat4u]

I'm a 25 year old guy, I dont smoke, rarely drink, and I workout regularly. I started noticing that my hair was falling out a couple of months ago. I was stressed out for a period of time and when taking showers I noticed hairs falling out from the root on a daily basis. This continued for a couple weeks and then they stopped falling out. My hair is much thinner now, I'm not bald, but my hair per square inch is dramatically lower from my mid scalp to the front of my head. I cant comb my hair like I used to anymore and you can see my scalp through my hair most of the time. (sun hits it too, so it's red most of the time)

I got a prescription for propecia after about three months of the hair not coming back and filled it at walmart after ruling out other things with a standard blood tests. $75 got me 30 day supply of 30 pills. (cvs wanted ~$90) They are expensive, which is a real concern for me, it's like eating $2 every day, but I felt that once I loose my hair it is gone and if I did nothing I would regret it.

Now let me tell you, I am one horny bastard, I can jizz three times a day and still be ready to go. Now that I'm taking propecia, I rarely get morning wood / random boners. So my pron watching habits have dropped significantly. (not sure if this is a good or bad thing)

The other day my balls started aching, like you know when you jerk it one time too many and your balls hurt? It hurt like that, I didnt take propecia that day and later on I started feeling normal again. The next day I continued taking the pills and so far so good. -- My balls only ached once so far, but I feel its worth mentioning.

I didnt think the side effects would be this noticable, but they are. I'm still taking my pills and I will probably refill, but I am concerned about possible long term effects.

Some people will recommend getting a prescription for proscar and cutting the pill in fourths to save money. (proscar at cvs was $45 I think) This will get you a 1.25mg dosage of finasteride, which I think is probably too much. (Studies out there say that you can get away with a 0.5mg dosage, but merck hasnt lowered the dosage. And I dont think you can divide a propecia pill as it is already pretty small to begin with.) -- But I'm no doctor.

Hope that helps.

[panthers89]

Wow that is quite a graphic response. I am a 21 year old male and have been on propecia now for 3 months. I have had absolutely no side effects at all. I workout regularly, booze pretty hard on the weekends, and have a pretty good diet. I'm still losing hair right now but I know that it is not as bad had I not been on propecia.

[SunnyDeLite]

You should ask to see a urologist if it continues. The side effects are meant to wear off eventually but 6 weeks is a long time. It might also be that the erectile dysfunction is caused by your stress. It's not uncommon for that to happen.

[skipstah70]

The side effects are %100 real. I took this stuff for 11 years, it works, but there is a price... and that is your sex life. I don't care what anyone says.. this crap will get your dick in the end. First you will start to lose sensitivity in your penis, and ability to get natural erections will be spotty. Then you will definitely have trouble getting erections and having normal feeling down there. Your discharge from your penis will be WAY less... and much more watery too. Your balls and nipples could begin to ache (my nipples hurt like a bitch for years!). All this could start to play tricks on your mind. You could slide into a moderate depression (I did!), about your new sexual limitations but your hair will always look great!!! I'm a pretty good looking guy, and at bars women/girls would always think I was in my late 20s (just turned 40), though I looked OK.. I had one problem. I could take them home because my dick would not work when asked anymore. This got SO bad in the last 3 years that I though I'd get smart and start experimenting with Cialis.. which solved the erection problems.. but could not solve the "I still can't feel my dick" problem. Word to the wise... this stuff will save your hair for a certain period of time no doubt... but I'm confident you will end up paying in "other" departments.

[trsisko]

The problem is that the people with out the side effects arent in forums complaining about the drug and i'm sure they are the vast majority of people.

I'm serouisly considering the drug my self now as i feel the loss of my hair will probably send me into a depression and its worth the risk.

[Speegs]

I've never had a side effect to my knowledge and i take half a proscar daily, and I am as testosterone driven as any man on this earth, definitely has not dampened my libido and if it has, good grief I must be a wilderbeast without it.

[Bakez]

Maybe side effects are more likely the younger you are? Generally I really dont think someone under 25 should be on this drug (maybe even push that to 30), you are still developing.

[Speegs]

Maybe side effects are more likely the younger you are? Generally I really dont think someone under 25 should be on this drug (maybe even push that to 30), you are still developing.I'm 27 and have been on the drug since 22, no side effects of an adverse nature to my knowledge.

[morbby]

The problem is that the people with out the side effects arent in forums complaining about the drug and i'm sure they are the vast majority of people.

I'm serouisly considering the drug my self now as i feel the loss of my hair will probably send me into a depression and its worth the risk.


I thought I sign in here. I have never been bald bald, I just have very fine hair and a bit of a reseeding hairliine. When I was about 25 years old (37 now) I expressed my concerns about how fine my hair has become and I was recommended Propecia. I have been using it since then, pretty much every single day for 12 years.. sure i missed handful of days over the year but we will say I take the pill 28 times out of 30 days in a month on average

I have kept my hair for the most part, it is still fine, but it will always be fine and i have noticed it thinning out more this year so I started to take 2 pills a day now after I listened to a recent Bald Truth episode on how the drug could start to wear off after a number of years and to up the dosage. Started that about a month ago.

So in my personal 12 years I have had no side effect at all, not one. I have never had any problems and as far as sex drive goes that so many people are worried about I have a huge sex drive(not bragging here) and have never had an issue on that end. Though I do try to stay healthy and go to the gym on a regular basis as well...

So I am one of those propecia people that have never had one side effect except perhaps the drug starting to lose its power after 12 years, pretty good run and I hope it continues.

I tried Minoxidel or however you spell it on a very minor basis at the time I hated the liquid cause it makes my already fine hair looks like a wet rat when I applied it.. hated it.. Considering trying the foam ... but right now just focusing on the extra dose of propecia, b100 vitamins, good shampoo and healthy living before i go out and try new goo in my hair. Hope that helps some people.. not saying side effects wont happen to you, but for me never ever had an issue except the drag of having to pay for it:)

[CVAZBAR]

I know many people talk about side effects from propecia or whatever medical therapy that you are taking but some are not so bad are they?? Im taking propecia and it has not done anything noticeably for me yet. It's almost 6 months and i might be considering avodart. As far as side affects, i do have a bit of everything like less volume of semen and maaaaaybe lowered libido but that is hard to tell for me because i don't feel that different. The problem that i noticed is that my erections are not as hard and its a bit harder for me to maintain it but why can't you use Viagra?? This can work for everyone. You don't have to take it daily and im guessing you can manage it to where you can use it when you think you might need it? I read that its perfectly safe to use both but i don't know how much of a problem it might be for some people. What you guys think??

[Speegs]

I know many people talk about side effects from propecia or whatever medical therapy that you are taking but some are not so bad are they?? Im taking propecia and it has not done anything noticeably for me yet. It's almost 6 months and i might be considering avodart. As far as side affects, i do have a bit of everything like less volume of semen and maaaaaybe lowered libido but that is hard to tell for me because i don't feel that different. The problem that i noticed is that my erections are not as hard and its a bit harder for me to maintain it but why can't you use Viagra?? This can work for everyone. You don't have to take it daily and im guessing you can manage it to where you can use it when you think you might need it? I read that its perfectly safe to use both but i don't know how much of a problem it might be for some people. What you guys think??To my knowledge finasteride is only potentially problematic to middle aged men and older who have sexual dysfunction in their history and can see it effected or at least given placebo effect by the use of finasteride.

It reduces your DHT levels so if you have hormonal imbalances in theory maybe it could contribute but it never is going to be the lone source of sexual dysfunction, more of a scapegoat in my opinion.

Unless you have problems don't worry about it, nothing related to the drug is permanent, if you have hair loss you can slow it down or halt it in portions of your scalp and if you think it's causing sexual dysfunction then discontinue it and your DHT will return to normal in a matter of weeks but you'll lose all the hair you preserved in a two or three months time.

[CVAZBAR]

To my knowledge finasteride is only potentially problematic to middle aged men and older who have sexual dysfunction in their history and can see it effected or at least given placebo effect by the use of finasteride.

It reduces your DHT levels so if you have hormonal imbalances in theory maybe it could contribute but it never is going to be the lone source of sexual dysfunction, more of a scapegoat in my opinion.

Unless you have problems don't worry about it, nothing related to the drug is permanent, if you have hair loss you can slow it down or halt it in portions of your scalp and if you think it's causing sexual dysfunction then discontinue it and your DHT will return to normal in a matter of weeks but you'll lose all the hair you preserved in a two or three months time.

Thanks bro but my comment was mostly directed towards people who are complaining about the side effects. I think i have some side effects but it don't bother me as much because i feel you can do something about it. I just want something that will stop my hair loss. I been taking propecia for about 6 months and my hair still falls off so i was thinking about Avodart since they say it works better and it's stronger. I just don't know if the side effects are that much worse. I'm thinking of getting some hair restoration because my hair is really thin now, even though i still have the same pattern i've always had. I just feel that i need to halt this hair loss to get the best long term results, instead of always trying to catch up. Than hopefully new advances come up to make it easier.

[skipstah70]

I know many people talk about side effects from propecia or whatever medical therapy that you are taking but some are not so bad are they?? Im taking propecia and it has not done anything noticeably for me yet. It's almost 6 months and i might be considering avodart. As far as side affects, i do have a bit of everything like less volume of semen and maaaaaybe lowered libido but that is hard to tell for me because i don't feel that different. The problem that i noticed is that my erections are not as hard and its a bit harder for me to maintain it but why can't you use Viagra?? This can work for everyone. You don't have to take it daily and im guessing you can manage it to where you can use it when you think you might need it? I read that its perfectly safe to use both but i don't know how much of a problem it might be for some people. What you guys think??

Uh, duh.. gee... I dunno? Doesn't sound like you are experiencing any of the side effects that every one else is talking about?? Um, I dunno.. those side effects don't sound too bad eh? Just messing with your sex life and reproductive capabilities... but nothing THAT serious.

Yeah, you can always solve by taking another drug to solve for the other drug that you are taking. Remember that all these drugs have to be metabolized in your liver, and you only have one of those, and by the sounds of it.. you plan on taking this/these drugs for a long while or indefinitely. Propecia may be relatively easy on your liver, but Cialis or Viagra not the case. I think you are playing with fire pal. Word to the wise, remember that there was really nothing physically wrong with you in the first place before you choose to take any of this stuff!

[skipstah70]

It reduces your DHT levels so if you have hormonal imbalances in theory maybe it could contribute but it never is going to be the lone source of sexual dysfunction, more of a scapegoat in my opinion.

Complete fucking bullshit mate. As someone who experienced the side effects first hand I'm a little offended. It is and was the lone source of my ED problems. Let's stop with the bullshit in this forum people.

[CVAZBAR]

Uh, duh.. gee... I dunno? Doesn't sound like you are experiencing any of the side effects that every one else is talking about?? Um, I dunno.. those side effects don't sound too bad eh? Just messing with your sex life and reproductive capabilities... but nothing THAT serious.

Yeah, you can always solve by taking another drug to solve for the other drug that you are taking. Remember that all these drugs have to be metabolized in your liver, and you only have one of those, and by the sounds of it.. you plan on taking this/these drugs for a long while or indefinitely. Propecia may be relatively easy on your liver, but Cialis or Viagra not the case. I think you are playing with fire pal. Word to the wise, remember that there was really nothing physically wrong with you in the first place before you choose to take any of this stuff!

Yeah i think your taking all this the wrong way. I never sex life and reproductive capabilities were not a problem. I said that you can do something about it. No shit all this can take a toll on your liver but I'm not thinking about 30 years from now. Its about the present for me and we don't know what advances might happen in the future. Shit, i might not even care when I'm 40, i just don't know. All I'm saying is that i understand the people that are going through this bullshit and at least we can say that we can do something about other problems. It's really up to each individual and how much they care. I'm guessing your not taking anything because it seems your anti-medical therapy. Even if i took Viagra, i would not take it every day. I'm just trying to look at the positives while dealing with this shit. You don't have too many choices and i know you can regret things in the future but at this moment, i feel better going that route. I know it can be dangerous but playing with fire?? I'm not addicted to heroin, tobacco or alcohol. If you want to use that as playing with fire, than we can sit here aaall day talking about people playing with "fire" in so many ways.

[skipstah70]

Yeah i think your taking all this the wrong way. I never sex life and reproductive capabilities were not a problem. I said that you can do something about it. No shit all this can take a toll on your liver but I'm not thinking about 30 years from now. Its about the present for me and we don't know what advances might happen in the future. Shit, i might not even care when I'm 40, i just don't know. All I'm saying is that i understand the people that are going through this bullshit and at least we can say that we can do something about other problems. It's really up to each individual and how much they care. I'm guessing your not taking anything because it seems your anti-medical therapy. Even if i took Viagra, i would not take it every day. I'm just trying to look at the positives while dealing with this shit. You don't have too many choices and i know you can regret things in the future but at this moment, i feel better going that route. I know it can be dangerous but playing with fire?? I'm not addicted to heroin, tobacco or alcohol. If you want to use that as playing with fire, than we can sit here aaall day talking about people playing with "fire" in so many ways.
I think if you take propecia long enough, you will find that you eill not only have ED issues with it, but you will also start to have some sensitivity issues with your penis. Viagra or Cialis will temporarily fix the ED issue, but not the sensitivity one.. and I have to say it is the strangest of sensations having a rock hard dick and virtually no feeling in it. I know all this becuase I took propecia for more than 11 years, and experienced the symptoms. I also came up with the same brilliant solution as you (take Cialis or Viagra to compensate for the ED). Let me save you some time and say you are walking down a path of pain that will start to affect more than your body. People always think taking propecia is just some simple solution that only affects their hairline. Don't forget it is fucking with a hormone that affect your whole body system, and doing things that may not be 100% understood elsewhere.

[ryan555]

I think if you take propecia long enough, you will find that you eill not only have ED issues with it, but you will also start to have some sensitivity issues with your penis. Viagra or Cialis will temporarily fix the ED issue, but not the sensitivity one.. and I have to say it is the strangest of sensations having a rock hard dick and virtually no feeling in it. I know all this becuase I took propecia for more than 11 years, and experienced the symptoms. I also came up with the same brilliant solution as you (take Cialis or Viagra to compensate for the ED). Let me save you some time and say you are walking down a path of pain that will start to affect more than your body. People always think taking propecia is just some simple solution that only affects their hairline. Don't forget it is fucking with a hormone that affect your whole body system, and doing things that may not be 100% understood elsewhere.

No disrespect intended, but what is your agenda? You spend a lot of time posting about how terrible Propecia is based on your isolated experience, but you're just using a bunch of hyperbole and exaggerated statements to scare people. Why not have a productive conversation if you're actually interested in helping men who are trying to cope with hair loss? Each person has to decide if the drug works for them and whether or not they can tolerate the side effects, if any occur. You personally had side effects that were intolerable so you stopped the drug. Why not let it end there? Why discourage other guys who might suffer unnecessarily because they are too freaked out by all the irrational hysteria on the Internet. It seems like a lot of guys who have side effects from the drug want to discourage other men from taking it because they are a little bitter about their own experience. I guess misery loves company.

[CVAZBAR]

I think if you take propecia long enough, you will find that you eill not only have ED issues with it, but you will also start to have some sensitivity issues with your penis. Viagra or Cialis will temporarily fix the ED issue, but not the sensitivity one.. and I have to say it is the strangest of sensations having a rock hard dick and virtually no feeling in it. I know all this becuase I took propecia for more than 11 years, and experienced the symptoms. I also came up with the same brilliant solution as you (take Cialis or Viagra to compensate for the ED). Let me save you some time and say you are walking down a path of pain that will start to affect more than your body. People always think taking propecia is just some simple solution that only affects their hairline. Don't forget it is fucking with a hormone that affect your whole body system, and doing things that may not be 100% understood elsewhere.

I appreciate you information mate but it seems to me as if you have some type of anger towards the medication. I mean i know that you did have some trouble with it and took it for 11 years but it's as if you are claiming that everyone is going to go through what you went through. What do you think about the people who have been taking it for longer and have no problem? How old are you? Maybe your negativity might also be playing a part? As for the sensation on your penis, i don't even know if i ever did have any feeling haha. My sensation comes from orgasm not touching my penis but i understand what you mean. Maybe you are right and this can happen to many people but if you have that problem than why don't you stop taking it???

[CVAZBAR]

No disrespect intended, but what is your agenda? You spend a lot of time posting about how terrible Propecia is based on your isolated experience, but you're just using a bunch of hyperbole and exaggerated statements to scare people. Why not have a productive conversation if you're actually interested in helping men who are trying to cope with hair loss? Each person has to decide if the drug works for them and whether or not they can tolerate the side effects, if any occur. You personally had side effects that were intolerable so you stopped the drug. Why not let it end there? Why discourage other guys who might suffer unnecessarily because they are too freaked out by all the irrational hysteria on the Internet. It seems like a lot of guys who have side effects from the drug want to discourage other men from taking it because they are a little bitter about their own experience. I guess misery loves company.

HAHA, that's exactly what i was thinking. I mean i was not understanding why this guy was being so negative but acting as if he want's to help. He might be right about many things but it don't mean that it will apply to everyone. The human body is much stronger than what he makes it to be. Saying that I'm playing with fire is truly ridiculous. How many people you know take loads of medications for decades with serious illnesses like Diabetes or HIV and people who drink all their lives or smoke and still live long. I mean i know that every case is different and other factors play a part as well but I'm taking this step by step and not really thinking about what will happen after i take Propecia for 40 years. You know what i mean? It's really more about maintaining and hoping bigger and better things come about.

[Zao]

I have a feeling that this person’s agenda goes much deeper then just warning people about his bad experience. I might be wrong about that but we all know that sexual issues can be caused by a whole host of things, including fear of not being able to perform. I actually suffered from this in high school before I ever took Propecia. I was all revved up and ready to go, but when it was time to actually do the deed, I went limp. it screwed me up for months and every time I tried to have intercourse, I would lose my erection. It was mortifying, especially in high school. I began to worry about it so much that I was not even having strong morning erections and if I did wake up with one, it would go down as soon as I noticed it. I also began to feel a little numb down there. But my girlfriend was very understanding and once I was able to get past it, it worked like a charm every time. When I started Propecia I really did not think about the side effects so since I had no fear I have never had a problem.
This person says he has been on the drug for 11 years but blames his waning sex drive and lack of erection on a drug that he has been using for over a decade. Something does not sound right here. Since this person says he is 40 years old, isn't possible that something else is happening here? I’m mean come on!

[JOE-91]

BBC have done a report on permanent sides:

http://www.************.com/forums/messageview.cfm?catid=10&threadid=92678&enterthread=y

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/12040303

[gmonasco]

BBC have done a report on permanent sides

Yeah, a thorough, hard-hitting article based on a non-random sample of one. That's some pretty impressive scientific reporting, all right.

[JOE-91]

Yeah, a thorough, hard-hitting article based on a non-random sample of one. That's some pretty impressive scientific reporting, all right.

Nobody said that it was "scientific"..

The fact is the BBC are running it through there radio station, and it's on the homepage of newsbeat right alongside some very serious issues which many know about at the moment.

[gmonasco]

Nobody said that it was "scientific".

The subject matter of the article makes it scientific:

"scientific" = "of or pertaining to science or the sciences"

Note that mainstream popular news outlets are generally woefully bad about reporting scientific topics accurately and instead tend to present simplistic, sensationalized versions.

The fact is the BBC are running it through there radio station, and it's on the homepage of newsbeat right alongside some very serious issues which many know about at the moment.

Well heck, if it's in on a news site it must be true. Nothing in the news could ever be false, inaccurate, or exaggerated.

[B's_Fan]

Spencer...Love the forum. You really have built a sense of community here...I have been on other forums (mainly Harleydavidson) and one of the options is to create a survey...Is there a way of doing this?
There is a lot of talk about hair loss prevention drugs (Propecia, etc) It would be great to do a survey to see others have taken and if they had side effects and what they are.
I think it would give folks a place to get good information and cut through all the misconceptions about these drugs...
B's_Fan

[B's_Fan]

Spencer...Love the forum. You really have built a sense of community here...I have been on other forums (mainly Harleydavidson) and one of the options is to create a survey...Is there a way of doing this?
There is a lot of talk about hair loss prevention drugs (Propecia, etc) It would be great to do a survey to see others have taken and if they had side effects and what they are.
I think it would give folks a place to get good information and cut through all the misconceptions about these drugs...
B's_Fan

[skipstah70]

No disrespect intended, but what is your agenda? You spend a lot of time posting about how terrible Propecia is based on your isolated experience, but you're just using a bunch of hyperbole and exaggerated statements to scare people. Why not have a productive conversation if you're actually interested in helping men who are trying to cope with hair loss? Each person has to decide if the drug works for them and whether or not they can tolerate the side effects, if any occur. You personally had side effects that were intolerable so you stopped the drug. Why not let it end there? Why discourage other guys who might suffer unnecessarily because they are too freaked out by all the irrational hysteria on the Internet. It seems like a lot of guys who have side effects from the drug want to discourage other men from taking it because they are a little bitter about their own experience. I guess misery loves company.

My agenda is to tell people about my experience taking the drug. Personally, I find it laughable that you can't deal with some objective negative comments about the drug. If you don't like the comments, then skip over what I say. I'm saying what I'm saying, because I don't believe that people talk enough about the negative side effects of the drug, and I believe that it happens much more frequently than in the 2% of users Merck claims. If you get a little freaked out by what I say, that's really not really my problem. I think people who voice concerns about side effects of a drug are doing more of a service than people who naysay or are cavalier about taking prescription medication. Again.. if you disagree.. then disregard what I say here. Ultimately though, I'm 100% certain that long exposure, over years taking the drug will affect your sex life negatively.

[skipstah70]

I have a feeling that this person’s agenda goes much deeper then just warning people about his bad experience. I might be wrong about that but we all know that sexual issues can be caused by a whole host of things, including fear of not being able to perform. I actually suffered from this in high school before I ever took Propecia. I was all revved up and ready to go, but when it was time to actually do the deed, I went limp. it screwed me up for months and every time I tried to have intercourse, I would lose my erection. It was mortifying, especially in high school. I began to worry about it so much that I was not even having strong morning erections and if I did wake up with one, it would go down as soon as I noticed it. I also began to feel a little numb down there. But my girlfriend was very understanding and once I was able to get past it, it worked like a charm every time. When I started Propecia I really did not think about the side effects so since I had no fear I have never had a problem.
This person says he has been on the drug for 11 years but blames his waning sex drive and lack of erection on a drug that he has been using for over a decade. Something does not sound right here. Since this person says he is 40 years old, isn't possible that something else is happening here? I’m mean come on!

You sound like you are about 20 or 25. You aren't my age, so don't pretend that you can understand how our bodies are different. When you get into your 30s, you will start to understand. Your body produces much less testosterone as you age. At 40, my testosterone production is much less than when I was 25. This coupled with taking Propecia has an inevitable result, and it will affect your dick. To all you guys out there who think this drug is the panacea for hairloss.. and you will be able to take it for the rest of your life without negative results, dream on.

[mecagoen10s]

Dr own stock in Propecia and always recomend it. It works in the back small part only and it works for less than 25% of WHITE males. PLEASE stop using it!!! that way they will come up with something that works a bit better.

[Scorpian]

I had the same results using Propecia. I am 28 and two years ago I started experiencing loss of sensitivity and inability to maintain an erection. The only thing that solves this problem is reducing my intake of Propecia per week. Even then, the erections aren't robust. I definitely noticed a major drop in my erections after taking the pill, and this isn't all in my head. When I read what was written about loss of sensitivity and erection, I can clearly relate. There is something with this drug that does this. Does anyone know if these issues are reversible over time?

[HairyHair]

There's just a lot of mixed comments about Propecia and its side effects, some good some bad but personally, I haven't had any serious negative effect from it.

[Scorpian]

That's great. I guess you're one of the lucky ones. I started using Propecia 7 years ago when I was 21, and at the time, it did great jobs stabilizing my hair loss. Unfortunately, for the first time, I also was unable to maintain an erection about a year after taking the pill. I immediately knew it was related to the drug since it happened out of nowhere and my sex drive was extremely high, so I dropped my intake to 6x a week instead of 7. That somewhat solved the problem, until I started also losing sensitivity and wouldn't wake up with my usual morning wood. Now, the problem is somewhat addressed by taking it 4-5x a week, but even then, I definitely don't have the same erections as I used to. Sensitivity issues also exist. I don't get how the drug company claims to only have sexual side effects in 2% of men when so many guys complain of them. They claim these side effects are reversible if stopped, but it's like a catch 20/20. Do you want to stop the drug and lose more hair, or do you want to take the drug and lose your sex life (at least in cases like mine)?

[Notbaldyet]

http://banpropecia.blogspot.com/

[mtbaldy]

I recently switched from Propecia 1 mg to Finasteride 5 mg which i cut into 5 pieces i took Propecia for about 7 to 8 yrs with no ED problems but since the switch i have major problems with erections & especially volume of sperm which was never a problem before .Any one else ever switch & have problems ,i realize the dosage is 1.25 mg a day so i'm gonna cut it down to 3 or 4 times a week & see what happens.

[Scorpian]

"Men who have taken a popular pill for baldness say they've experienced persistent sexual dysfunction for months, or even years, after stopping the drug.

The new study, published in the Journal of Sexual Medicine, found that men who take finasteride, sold under the brand names Propecia and Proscar, may develop an ongoing loss of libido and orgasm, even after they go off the medication.

In some cases, they could have other lasting sexual side effects, including premature ejaculation and erectile dysfunction, according to lead researcher Dr. Michael Irwig of George Washington University's medical school.

"It's obviously having some effect on the brain," Irwig told AOL Health. "It's messing up different hormonal pathways. Some of these pathways are important for things like libido and sexual function."

Finasteride, the most common hair-loss pill, has previously been linked to "reversible" sexual impairment, as noted on the drug's label, said Irwig. But "this is the first series to find that symptoms persisted for at least three months despite stopping finasteride," he added.

"Three months was the minimum, but some of these guys had sexual symptoms for years, some ... for five to 10 years after," he told AOL Health. "These were young guys with no medical problems, no psychiatric problems, who happened to develop these side effects."

Irwig and his team interviewed 71 men aged 21 to 46 who had taken Propecia or Proscar and reported new sexual side effects after they started the drugs. None of the participants had a history of sexual dysfunction or other conditions that might have contributed, Irwig said -- and some had only been on finasteride for a few days.

Ninety-four percent said they'd experienced low sexual desire, 92 percent reported a dip in sexual arousal and 69 percent had trouble with orgasm, according to the findings. Another 92 percent said they developed erectile dysfunction after taking finasteride.

On average, participants had been on the baldness drug for 28 months and had chronic sexual problems for an average of 40 months, the research showed.

But 10 percent of those studied had used finasteride for less than a month, Irwig told AOL Health.

"It's scary," he said. "For the lack of orgasm and libido, there is no treatment."

Other reported adverse side effects of finasteride are depression, suicidal thoughts and anxiety. Merck is currently fighting a number of lawsuits involving the drug, including one in Canada and another in Connecticut.

The company does not warn of possible psychological or persistent sexual problems in information about finasteride on its website, nor does it mention those symptoms on its U.S. labeling. Irwig said the drug does carry warning labels in the U.K. and Sweden about ongoing sexual impairment.

"Be aware that this is a potential sexual side effect," he cautioned. "If somebody chooses to take this medicine, there is that risk. They have to make the decision that it's a risk they're willing to take."


http://www.aolhealth.com/2011/03/18/men-report-sexual-impairment-after-using-common-hair-loss-drug/?icid=main%7Chtmlws-main-w%7Cdl6%7Csec3_lnk2%7C206549

[vendi7]

It considerably reduced my libido and to add insult Propecia didnt even work for me. Not worth it.

[hollywoodkid]

Im 23 going on 24, been on the peesh for almost 1 year. No sides to report what so ever. I do think that there is something to say about people only reporting the negatives.

[skipstah70]

Im 23 going on 24, been on the peesh for almost 1 year. No sides to report what so ever. I do think that there is something to say about people only reporting the negatives.
I'd love to hear you share your thoughts in 10 years when your body starts changing.. I think you may eat those words my friend. Stay on it long enough, and I absolutely guarantee you will notice a negative change in your sex life.

[skipstah70]

http://banpropecia.blogspot.com/
Holy shit, now THAT is a scary article.

[hollywoodkid]

Wont be on it that long, I'm really only taking it cuz balding at 23, I am put at a huge disadvantage in the job market. I can rock the bald look for sure, more people can than they might think. Until my career is underway though, I need to look normal. Im off it at 27.

[Matthew]

Ive been taking over 10 years
no side effects, I'm still oversexed everyday
I'm 32

[skipstah70]

Wont be on it that long, I'm really only taking it cuz balding at 23, I am put at a huge disadvantage in the job market. I can rock the bald look for sure, more people can than they might think. Until my career is underway though, I need to look normal. Im off it at 27.
I that's your attitude, I'd save yourself the trouble and not even bother with taking it.

[lifesaver]

I am 44 years old and have been on propecia for over 8 years. I always felt off less sex drive, rare morning erections, weak erection, low energy, low sperm and just a little off. But I though that this was age and never contributed to propecia. Because after al they said the side effect were so rare. I have not really been on the board for about five years since my last transplant. Then I suddnely stumpled on some propecia information and that lead to me reading more threads like this. Suddenly, I realized that a lot of what I was feeling was the same as people taking propecia felt, mind you no doctor told me it was related to propecia.

So I decided to get 1/2 my dosage, then i decided to completly stop it and see. I have been off of it for about two weeks...all I can say is that i forgot what morning errections feel like and mine have been so strong they wake me up. My sex drive seems to be creeping back up a bit but nothing major. My energy level has increased. What I did is replaced the propecia with Mixodil with azelic acid which is supposed to be a topical DHT blocker and added Revivogen. Now maybe when I reach the 3 months mark and see less hair I might change my mind. But for now I dont feel that for me the risk or feelings of propecia is woth it.

I dont appreciate guys here knocking other guys down that talk about the side effect. If it was not for these guys standing up and saying how they feel I would just think what I was feeling was age and not a side effect. It though knowledge that we have power and each person is free to make teir own decisions as to what they can live with.

I appreciate all the stories and keep them commming.

[Hurts]

Reading Propeciahelp scares the shit out of me. I haven't ordered my finasteride yet and im thinking whether i should at all now.

[hollywoodkid]

I that's your attitude, I'd save yourself the trouble and not even bother with taking it.

I live in and work in the single most superficial place in the world. If vanity wasn't an issue, I wouldn't take it, and this entire website would not exist.
4 years and I'm off it, whether something better has been developed or not. Besides, no sides to report yet, if something shakes up (or can't shake up, for that matter) I'll quit sooner.

[mudge127]

I can speak firsthand, I took a full dose of propecia for 6 months straight. The results, my hair was amazing! My sex life was down the tubes! I had the exact same problem many others had, I could not get an erection to save my life, I could care less about sex!

I stopped using propecia and after 14 days all of my problems immediately went away (it felt great to wake up with wood in the morning!) The down side is after many months my hair went to shit again :(

Now I am taking a half a dose a day for the last 3 months. No sexual side effects yet, waiting to see if the hair becomes great again (I am hopeful). Perhaps if I had stayed at a full dose the sides would have abated (I have heard this), but I had the sides for 6 weeks straight and could not take it anymore.

[anon030303]

I had the same side effects as the poster I've quoted below in addition to breast tenderness and nipple pains. Went off the drug. The sexual stuff is fine now, but gynecomastia remains. Looking to fix it surgically. Regarding the depression, I think it's also possible that the depression is a side effect of the drug for some people (myself included) and not a reaction to the sexual side effects. I posted the side effects once as a comment to an article on TBT that said the drug has little or no side effects.

Please everyone note, there is no confusion about whether propecia does or does not have these side effects. It does for a certain amount of people. The company's website itself states:

"In general use, the following side effects have been reported: allergic reactions including rash, itching, hives, and swelling of the lips and face; problems with ejaculation; breast tenderness and enlargement; and testicular pain. You should promptly report to your doctor any changes in your breasts such as lumps, pain, or nipple discharge. Tell your doctor about these or any other unusual side effects.

A small number of men had sexual side effects, with each occurring in less than 2% of men. These include less desire for sex, difficulty in achieving an erection, and a decrease in the amount of semen. These side effects went away in men who stopped taking PROPECIA because of them. In addition, these side effects decreased to 0.3% of men or less by the fifth year of treatment. " - http://www.propecia.com/finasteride/propecia/consumer/about-propecia-finasteride/possible_side_effects.jsp?WT.svl=2

The question is whether or not they are permanent. Article states - no clinical studies show permanent side effects. However, are there clinical studies that show there are no permanent side effects? The statement is a confusing one, and the fact may be that there is simply no long term clinical study on permanent side effects, therefore it's an unkown. Observational data is still relevant.

I believe it is worth testing out for anyone interested, just quit if you develop certain side effects soon or maybe work with a doctor to monitor things. It might not be for everyone but it might be for you. I tried lowering doses later on and got the side effects again, I may try once more later on after having blood tests and things like that done. After reading the article, it seems if you've had the side effects once and you try it again later on you'll experience the same side effects again.


The side effects are %100 real. I took this stuff for 11 years, it works, but there is a price... and that is your sex life. I don't care what anyone says.. this crap will get your dick in the end. First you will start to lose sensitivity in your penis, and ability to get natural erections will be spotty. Then you will definitely have trouble getting erections and having normal feeling down there. Your discharge from your penis will be WAY less... and much more watery too. Your balls and nipples could begin to ache (my nipples hurt like a bitch for years!). All this could start to play tricks on your mind. You could slide into a moderate depression (I did!), about your new sexual limitations but your hair will always look great!!! I'm a pretty good looking guy, and at bars women/girls would always think I was in my late 20s (just turned 40), though I looked OK.. I had one problem. I could take them home because my dick would not work when asked anymore. This got SO bad in the last 3 years that I though I'd get smart and start experimenting with Cialis.. which solved the erection problems.. but could not solve the "I still can't feel my dick" problem. Word to the wise... this stuff will save your hair for a certain period of time no doubt... but I'm confident you will end up paying in "other" departments.

[Mens Rea]

Fact.

The people in denial or delusion or corrupt.

I have PFS (bad sexual issues)....finasteride has caused my estrogen to go through the roof. Pre-fin I was 100% healthy - not even a hint of sexual problem. Now im dealing with these issues a YEAR after cessation. It completely messed up my endoctrine system.

There is a few new members on propeciahelp each day, all with the same problems from finasteride. Many of whom only took it for short periods of time before experiencing crashes and such like.


The pecentages are debatable. The side effects are not.

[seattle30]

I have heard Spencer discredit the study by Dr Irwig numerous times. I wonder why he does not discredit the incidences of adverese sexual side effects in the studies that got Propecia improved. The following is taken from the FDA hearing on Propecia, this statement is from Keith Kauffman the Senior Director of clinical research in clinical research and endocrinology and metabolism at Merck.

"3.8 percent of finasteride patients versus 2.1 percent of placebo patients reported any sexually-related adverse experience, and this achieved statistical significance. In approximately one-third of these patients, these adverse events resulted in discontinuation from the study.

We attempted to obtain followup on all patients reporting sexually-related adverse experiences. Of the 36 patients on finasteride reporting these adverse experiences, 21 reported resolution of the adverse event while continuing finasteride therapy. Seven reported resolution following discontinuation from the study, and seven had persistence of the adverse event while continuing in the study on finasteride therapy. The pattern for patients on placebo was essentially similar, with most patients resolving either on or off drug, four patients reported persistence of the adverse event while remaining on placebo therapy.

To further explore the impact of this low incidence of sexually-related adverse experiences, all patients completed a validated sexual function questionnaire. This consisted of four domains: sexual interest, erections, ejaculation and perception of problems and a global question regarding the patient's overall satisfaction with their sex life, as shown on the left side of this graph. The results for all patients at month 12 are shown on the left and for those reporting sexually-related adverse events in the trials, the changes are shown on the right-hand panel."

Because the sexual adverse side effects were just reported and followed up with a questionare why should we believe these individuals? This seems to be the rational behind what Spencer is saying for the study conducted by Dr. Irwig, yet why doesn't he question the individuals reporting adverse sexual side effects in the Merck studies?

[seattle30]

Sorry, should say that got propecia approved at the top, not improved.

[PropeciaVictim]

You make a good point in that Spencer applies a different standard of proof to arguments he inherently does not want to be true.

Additionally, the text on the clinical trials is very misleading. The amount of people reporting adverse effects on Propecia (36) is much less than one could calculate from the percentages. (3.8% of total amount of patients)

At least one person who discontinued Propecia treatment did not have a reversal in their side effects but this is entirely overlooked in Keith Kaufman's sales pitch. 7 patients also stayed on Propecia despite having side effects and they did not show a resolution while they were on the drug. We do not know if they ever resolved or would have resolved had they decided to discontinue treatment.

[Zao]

I’ve heard Kobren say at least four times that he believes these side effects are happening in a very small group of people, but there are no scientific facts to back this up. He might not think it’s as prevalent as you guys do, but he is only speaking from experience and he says that all the time. I speak from experience too just like you guys do.

And the big difference between the two studies was that Merck’s was a double blind placebo study. All of the patients, those on the drug and those on the placebo who experienced sexual side effects were asked the questions. How can you not see the difference here? Even the guys on the sugar pill reported impotence and unresolved side effects while in the study. THEY NEVER EVEN TOOK THE DRUG.

[PropeciaVictim]

Zao - I have also heard Spencer deny the validity of these claims several times. There have been contradictions as I have previously pointed out. Again, I have never stated that I think the side effects are very prevalent, but I think it is extremely important to be public about even the slightest risk.

It doesn't matter whether the questionnaire was given to a double-blinded study or a retroactive study. The point is that people dismiss the Irwig study because he relied on self-reporting from subjects but this is the same method they used in the clinical trials. It really is one of the best methods available, for better or worse.

We all know that men experienced persisting side effects after taking the placebo. This is to be expected, however, as they developed problems from extraneous causes that would not be removed upon discontinuation. Its necessary to compare the frequency of side effects on the drug versus off, which is made difficult because Keith Kaufman intentionally obfuscates his findings. We would need to gain access to the hard data before drawing any further conclusions since the actual numbers are unclear.

[Zao]

PropeciaVictim, to claim that Kobren denied the validly of these claims is preposterous. He's probably the most open minded person I’ve listened to on the radio. In every interview that I’ve listened to that is posted here he clearly says that this is happening to people. He might say that he thinks that a lot of the guys complaining of these sides could be dealing with psychological loss of sex drive or impotence, but he always throws in that it is possible that something physical is happening that we just don’t fully understand yet. I’ve never heard him just fluff this topic off and say, it’s all in their heads. NEVER!

I also don’t think that anyone is dismissing Irwigs study. They are just pointing out the flaws in it. I do think you make some good points PropeciaVictim and like I said I am glad that Merck has added the reported sided effects of persistent problems, but you sound like a conspiracy therapist when you constantly attack Kobren, his motives and people like me who have has nothing but a good experience with Propecia.

What I see is that Spencer gives us all a place to discuss these issues. A very public place, not to mention that he talks about it and tells people to go to the forum to learn about it on his radio show. You should be happy about this, he reaches thousands and thousands of people. Maybe if you tried to appeal to him privately, before you started to hijack this forum with your Propeciahelp friends you could have gotten more information out earlier? This thug mentality is why most rational people look and you guys and think you’re crazy. You probably should have considered a different approach.

[PropeciaVictim]

You are delusional if you think he did not try to initially discredit Irwig's study. I've posted direct quotations where Spencer dismissed Irwig's "study" yet you completely ignore them. If you listen to his interview with William Reed, he calls the claims "insane". Then he continues to say "finasteride is one of the safest drugs in the PDR". I have hormone profiles that I can post that show I still have significantly decreased DHT levels 1 year after cessation and a full head of hair as well.

You also are assuming that I did not attempt to contact Spencer privately before posting on this blog when you are unaware of my previous actions. You think we should have taken a different approach but we are finally starting to get recognition as Merck has included these risks on its labeling information and many more doctors are aware of the condition and willing to attempt to treat it as a physiological condition.

[Zao]

OK PropeciaVictim, once again whatever you need to believe. You just can not stop arguing your point. You win! I wish you a speedy recovery, but please leave this forum, you have nothing more to add here and your nasty, abusive posts are not welcomed.

[PropeciaVictim]

LOL, you are calling me abusive yet you are the one trying to bully me out of the forums. I guess I wouldn't expect anything reasonably intelligent coming from an NYU grad.

[Hurts]

OK PropeciaVictim, once again whatever you need to believe. You just can not stop arguing your point. You win! I wish you a speedy recovery, but please leave this forum, you have nothing more to add here and your nasty, abusive posts are not welcomed.

Thats not very fair. All he's doing is trying to help.

[the_charger]

I guess I wouldn't expect anything reasonably intelligent coming from an NYU grad.

Not cool, propeciavictim.

I agree with Zao. ever since Dr. crisler invited himself over here, things have been going to hell! I used to enjoy reading this forum, and it was my favorite source of information on hair loss. But john invited all his own forum members to come here, post the same crap i've been wading through at other forums, and worst of all: you keep bashing Spencer. nobody here wants to hear any more of that.

seriously, if you just want to keep bashing Spencer, you should just go back to john's forum and do it there.

ive been on propecia for over 2 weeks and i've had no problems. For the first time in like a year, i'm feeling great about myself and glad I took a good step towards treating my hair loss. You guys keep saying people like me are just trying to justify it to ourselves that we want to take propecia, and burying our head in the sand to ignore the danger, but ive really just decided to listen to the truth, and listening to Spencers broadcasts helped me out so much.

none of you guys (especially not dr.crisler) helped anyone here.. I think it was a really bad decision for him to have decided to post here, because hundreds if not thousands of people saw that all play out, and you all lost so much credibility because of him.

[PropeciaVictim]

I have no connection to Dr. Crisler, other than the fact he has taken an interest in studying and treating patients my medical problem. I have never posted on his website, solicited his health care, or even spoke so much as a word to him. I came here because I was appalled by Spencer's interview with Sara Wasserbauer.

There is nothing wrong with being glad that you decided to take Propecia, but it may be premature since you will not get any hair regrowth for a few months, assuming it will even work for you. However, there is something wrong with convincing yourself you are taking a 100% safe drug because there is considerable evidence to the contrary.

[seattle30]

I would say that Spencer's view on Post Fianasteride Syndrome seem to waiver. Regardless of what he thinks I hope he keeps on doing great interviews with more people in the scientific community on the topic. The interview with Dr. Irwig was great. Hopefully he can interview Dr. Abdulmaged M. Traish of Boston University who helped prepare this study http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21176115. As well as Dr Steven King from Baylor University who wrote this paper in the Journal of Andrology on Neurosteroids and Sexual Function http://www.andrologyjournal.org/cgi/content/full/29/5/524. We know that propecia can inhibit neuroactive steroids, and it would be interesting to hear what Dr King would have to say on PFS.

I understand where people are coming from who have had no side effects from the drug to question us. But they shouldn't be quick to dismiss anyone suffering from PFS as not telling the truth, or that there sexual problems are psychosomatic. I am suffering from PFS and realize that we are a small subset, but our problems caused by this medication are very real. I took this medication at 24 and years later am still experiencing the side effects from taking the drug.

[Zao]

I would say that Spencer's view on Post Fianasteride Syndrome seem to waiver. Regardless of what he thinks I hope he keeps on doing great interviews with more people in the scientific community on the topic. The interview with Dr. Irwig was great. Hopefully he can interview Dr. Abdulmaged M. Traish of Boston University who helped prepare this study http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21176115. As well as Dr Steven King from Baylor University who wrote this paper in the Journal of Andrology on Neurosteroids and Sexual Function http://www.andrologyjournal.org/cgi/content/full/29/5/524. We know that propecia can inhibit neuroactive steroids, and it would be interesting to hear what Dr King would have to say on PFS.

I understand where people are coming from who have had no side effects from the drug to question us. But they shouldn't be quick to dismiss anyone suffering from PFS as not telling the truth, or that there sexual problems are psychosomatic. I am suffering from PFS and realize that we are a small subset, but our problems caused by this medication are very real. I took this medication at 24 and years later am still experiencing the side effects from taking the drug.

Seatlle30, I’m sure Spencer will continue to get this information for all of us as he always does. Your comments are fair and I appreciate your reasonable tone much more then PropeciaVictim’s thuggish attacks and hijacking of this forum. I bet if other guys like you came out before the likes of PV and Crisler, these threads would have turned out much differently. It’s no all black and white, we all have different experiences, and this includes Kobren, but to accuse people of being corrupt or dishonest, especially someone like Kobren who helps all of us just gets under my skin. PropciaVictim has been nothing but nasty and now he’s being an elitist by somehow making it out the NYU is not a one of the top university's in the country. This clearly shows the type of person he is. I’m sick of bitter, angry, nasty people like him trying to destroy these forums. I do not agree that he’s just trying to help, his agenda goes far deeper then that. It’s more about him trying to prove his point no matter who it damages including this great forum.

[mstymoon]

WoW! i've been on propecia for 2 months. No issues yet, but now im getting worried :(

[the_charger]

I have been on Propecia for over a month and I feel the exact same way I did before I started it. I think actually my hair loss has been less, and I dont notice as much hair in the shower drain as I used to, but it might just be in my head.

Im surprised but I actually feel like I have more energy now. I can work out for longer at the gym and I just feel more energized throughout the day. I’m also sleeping better and everything too. Maybe it’s because im not so worried about my hair loss now, and I can just focus on school and my social life and having fun again.

I actually think I was more scared and anxious before I even started on it. I really want to genuinely thank Spencer and Dr. Wasserbauer for putting my fears to rest with the interview they had a while back. It really cleared up all my fears about taking propecia! I am really happy now and hopeful for the future, because instead of worrying about being completely bald by the time I turn 25, I think I might be able to keep most of my hair well into my 20s 30s and beyond!

[Mens Rea]

I have been on Propecia for over a month and I feel the exact same way I did before I started it. I think actually my hair loss has been less, and I dont notice as much hair in the shower drain as I used to, but it might just be in my head.

Im surprised but I actually feel like I have more energy now. I can work out for longer at the gym and I just feel more energized throughout the day. I’m also sleeping better and everything too. Maybe it’s because im not so worried about my hair loss now, and I can just focus on school and my social life and having fun again.

I actually think I was more scared and anxious before I even started on it. I really want to genuinely thank Spencer and Dr. Wasserbauer for putting my fears to rest with the interview they had a while back. It really cleared up all my fears about taking propecia! I am really happy now and hopeful for the future, because instead of worrying about being completely bald by the time I turn 25, I think I might be able to keep most of my hair well into my 20s 30s and beyond!

The charger

I hope that continues that way for you man. I'm glad you're having a good experience thus far.

As for your positive effects, they migth be attributable to the additional testosterone levels that propecia has been confirmed to produce (15% ish).

I have to say though its a litte premature to make any conclusions. Many guys took it for much longer than one month without sides. Obviously this is the last thign on your mind and rightfully so, all i ask is to retain an open mind if you do see minor changes over the next few months (inital increase in testosterone can give diminish over time whilst estrogen rises in some cases).


Good luck, keep us informed.

[the_charger]

Thanks for your good advice Mens Rea!

I take it as a good sign that i havent had any problms at all, not even the blue balls ache that so many guys say happen.

But yes I know even from your story, you were fine up until a year. Im going to keep an eye on myself and if I notice anything off ill be sure to nip it in the bud before it goes too far and leads to bigger problems.

I hope that you have been able to make some progress towards becoming well again? I havent been looking much lately, but last time I looked it sounded like there are some new treatment options coming out for you guys. Im hoping that means that its closer than ever for a real effective treatment.. Also with all the medias attention its just a matter of time before this is all figured out.

[Mens Rea]

Thanks for your good advice Mens Rea!

I take it as a good sign that i havent had any problms at all, not even the blue balls ache that so many guys say happen.

But yes I know even from your story, you were fine up until a year. Im going to keep an eye on myself and if I notice anything off ill be sure to nip it in the bud before it goes too far and leads to bigger problems.

I hope that you have been able to make some progress towards becoming well again? I havent been looking much lately, but last time I looked it sounded like there are some new treatment options coming out for you guys. Im hoping that means that its closer than ever for a real effective treatment.. Also with all the medias attention its just a matter of time before this is all figured out.


Great :)

As for my progress, no real luck so far. I fluctuate. THe last 2 days i've been dead below the waist basically, for example, with severe shrinkage.

That said, i've got alot of things planned the next few months. I'll not bore anyone with the details but i'm attacking it from all angles. It's so complicated, man. Anyway, Thanks for the good words. Hopefully i can report some postives back in due course myself!!

[the_charger]

im sorry to hear that, it must be beyond frustrating to have to deal with all that. I guess if anything positive is to be said, its that you fluctuate and hopefully at times are able to feel somewhat normal and have regular functioning for a time.

No offense intended to some of the others, but I find many people with PFS just complain and become bitter and hateful and depressed. You seem to show you arent giving up, and are really quite hopeful and positive. Thats an awesome attitude, and im sure its going to lead to your recovery! Even though there isnt exactly a proven treatment, there are always things you can do to improve your health and encourage your body to heal.

Good luck friend, I wouldnt be happier if I could see you and others were recovered in a couple months when I check this forum!

[Mens Rea]

im sorry to hear that, it must be beyond frustrating to have to deal with all that. I guess if anything positive is to be said, its that you fluctuate and hopefully at times are able to feel somewhat normal and have regular functioning for a time.

No offense intended to some of the others, but I find many people with PFS just complain and become bitter and hateful and depressed. You seem to show you arent giving up, and are really quite hopeful and positive. Thats an awesome attitude, and im sure its going to lead to your recovery! Even though there isnt exactly a proven treatment, there are always things you can do to improve your health and encourage your body to heal.

Good luck friend, I wouldnt be happier if I could see you and others were recovered in a couple months when I check this forum!

Thanks bro. Yeah as you say the fluctuations encourage me too. :)

I agree. Many guys have got depressed about it and it's ruined their lives. They chase a golden "cure" and try look for theories that can explain the whole riddle. I've quickly learned that that's not possible right now and i just need to find a way to aid my own body into a natural recovery. I've pulilng out all the stops, i can't let this affect my life man ive got too much to lose. Yeah, i will take immense pleasure in posting about any recovery too, let's hope it's sooner rather than later.

Meet back here in a few months :cool:

[seattle30]

YxrSdGj0sAg

[UK_]

Obviously people will still say "oh only 2% get sides" - but I wont be touching this rubbish, Mrck can shove it up their ass and fuck off - money grubbing bastards.

[UK_]

..Merck**..

[skipstah70]

YxrSdGj0sAg It's about time these reorts gets some serious air play! Fu%k you too Merck, it would be better to admit you have some serious problems with this drug than try to keep telling us the same old shit.

[Jcm800]

I'm still puzzled as to why Boots the chemist here in the UK have been happily prescribing these pills on their 'hair retention programme',for four years approx?, surely they'd have seen many men complaining of sides and stopped the service by now?
I mean, Boots-the family chemist, doshing out poison to men for all these years?

[Hurts]

I'm still puzzled as to why Boots the chemist here in the UK have been happily prescribing these pills on their 'hair retention programme',for four years approx?, surely they'd have seen many men complaining of sides and stopped the service by now?
I mean, Boots-the family chemist, doshing out poison to men for all these years?

I$n't it obv£ou$ alr€ady?

[Jcm800]

I$n't it obv£ou$ alr€ady?

Of course it's all about the bucks, just surprised that they continue to prescribe Propecia given the negative press it's getting of late.

[thebigboss]

I have been on Propecia for over a month and I feel the exact same way I did before I started it. I think actually my hair loss has been less, and I dont notice as much hair in the shower drain as I used to, but it might just be in my head.

Im surprised but I actually feel like I have more energy now. I can work out for longer at the gym and I just feel more energized throughout the day. I’m also sleeping better and everything too. Maybe it’s because im not so worried about my hair loss now, and I can just focus on school and my social life and having fun again.

I actually think I was more scared and anxious before I even started on it. I really want to genuinely thank Spencer and Dr. Wasserbauer for putting my fears to rest with the interview they had a while back. It really cleared up all my fears about taking propecia! I am really happy now and hopeful for the future, because instead of worrying about being completely bald by the time I turn 25, I think I might be able to keep most of my hair well into my 20s 30s and beyond!

I am new at this site and joining from Denmark, i have read many many things about propecia around the web, some of the things ive read were horrifying, and the same goes even here! There are some positive and negative comments about this pill as, but stories like yours encouraged me to give it a shot. I just ordered Propecia and Minoxidil 5% today as ive heard the results are better when these two are combined..

I just only turned 22 and have been losing my hair for few years now.. I think im a decent looking fella but the receding/thinning hairline at the front takes so much away from me, it makes me look weird and destroys my confidence completely :(

The price on these products are quite expensive and especially for a student like me, but maybe thats because belgraviacentre charges a little extra for their services (apoligies if im not allowed to state the brand im dealing with)

Anyway, now im just waiting for the products to arrive, i am actually scared to death after reading all the negative comments, and i am close to call the whole deal off, but on the other hand my hair is very important to me, the little i have left..

I just hope to god that i dont belong to that small percentage of men who experience these unfortunate side effects.. BTW sorry for the language, english is not my native language.

[thebigboss]

It's about time these reorts gets some serious air play! Fu%k you too Merck, it would be better to admit you have some serious problems with this drug than try to keep telling us the same old shit.

This video didnt exactly help my motivation:(:( Do you know how common this is? Or is it only this one guy?

[ryan555]

I was on the drug for 12 years and stopped it over a year ago due to an unrelated medical issue. I had no noticeable side effects while I was on the drug and it regrew all the hair I had lost plus halted further loss. As a result, I got to spend my 20's enjoying my life instead of obsessing about hair loss on Internet forums, so I am thankful for the medication.

Having said that, I have realized over the past year that I was experiencing a few minor side effects while on the drug but did not realize it until they went away. Namely, my erections have become a bit stronger off the medication and I have better urinary flow. I guess these just crept up on me since i was on it for so lomg. Anyway, This was a small price to pay for keeping my hair.

I do believe that some guys do get really bad side effects and I feel for them. But i think the reality is that the vast majority of men have only minor side effects and adjust easily. Of the men who do have bad side effects, the vast majority of those men go back to normal soon after stopping the drug.

I have the utmost sympathy for the guys who have had such horrible experiences on the drug but I think the hysteria on the Internet about it is simply in line with the frantic, misinformed, and downright hostile environment that exists around the topic of hair loss on these internet forums.

[thebigboss]

Sounds like a dream come true! Except for the minor side effects.. The medications (propecia + minox 5%) are on its way to me, i just hope i get the same positive results as you did!

[F67]

It's about time these reorts gets some serious air play! Fu%k you too Merck, it would be better to admit you have some serious problems with this drug than try to keep telling us the same old shit.


Hi Skipstah70,

I remember you posting that you stopped taking Propecia in late 2010...and you got your erections back... has the hair fallen out since being off Propecia for well over 6 months now?

I've been taking Propecia for about 12 years, since i was 31...i've had erection problems since taking it but too scared to get off it since i don't want to lose the hair...

so, let us know if the hair has fallen out since being off Propecia...are the erections still good since being off Propeica?

Thanks.

[UK_]

Fear mongering?

Lol! As if to say there hasn't been a general wealth of individuals experiencing horrible sexual sides with this drug.

I would never try this drug, a friend of mine tried it for 4 days and experienced this horrible, AWFUL metallic taste for the period he was on it, and this was prescribed to him by a doc.

....He also experienced a sudden drop in libido and all the sperm issues that usually come reported with the drug.

[UK_]

Fear mongering?

Lol! As if to say there hasn't been a general wealth of individuals experiencing horrible sexual sides with this drug.

I would never try this drug, a friend of mine tried it for 4 days and experienced this horrible, AWFUL metallic taste for the period he was on it, and this was prescribed to him by a doc.

He asked the doctor and the doctor stated this can occur in some individuals when there is a rapid change in hormone levels, he stated specifically a spike in 'estrogen'... and we all know what that road leads to!

....He also experienced a sudden drop in libido and all the sperm issues that usually come reported with the drug.

[VictimOfDHT]

The problem is that the people with out the side effects arent in forums complaining about the drug and i'm sure they are the vast majority of people.

I'm serouisly considering the drug my self now as i feel the loss of my hair will probably send me into a depression and its worth the risk.

That's the simple fact that people don't see. People who use Fin without having any side effects -who are the majority despite what some nut cases would like us to believe- don't come here or go to the so-called propeciahelp forum to tell the world that they're not experiencing any side effects. Naturally, only people who have/claim/think they have side effects come here or elsewhere to talk about it, which will give the impression that a lot of people are having these side effects when in fact that's NOT the case. It's like going to a clinic that's full of sick people and saying wow there are a lot of sick people. Yeah, the clinic might be full of sick people but there are a million other people out side who are healthy.

I've been using Fin since '98 or '99. Never experienced any side effects. I was on Dut for about 1 1/2 years also without any side effects.

I'm sick and tired of people who make their negative experiences on the drug as facts that apply to all, and who will attack you for just saying that the drug didn't affect you negatively. I'd say some of these bastards have agendas. Many, have other reasons for their side effects but they automatically think Fin is to blame. Others, their side effects are just imaginary. And I can say this, if you are too concerned with your hair loss that alone can FUCK up your sex life. When you feel like shit about yourself it basically kills your sexual desire, and just about everything else.

[VictimOfDHT]

The problem is that the people with out the side effects arent in forums complaining about the drug and i'm sure they are the vast majority of people.

I'm serouisly considering the drug my self now as i feel the loss of my hair will probably send me into a depression and its worth the risk.

That's the simple fact that people don't see. People who use Fin without having any side effects -who are the majority despite what some nut cases would like us to believe- don't come here or go to the so-called propeciahelp forum to tell the world that they're not experiencing any side effects. Naturally, only people who have/claim/think they have side effects come here or elsewhere to talk about it, which will give the impression that a lot of people are having these side effects when in fact that's NOT the case. It's like going to a clinic that's full of sick people and saying wow there are a lot of sick people. Yeah, the clinic might be full of sick people but there are a million other people out side who are healthy.

I've been using Fin since '98 or '99. Never experienced any side effects. I was on Dut for about 1 1/2 years also without any side effects.

I'm sick and tired of people who make their negative experiences on the drug as facts that apply to all, and who will attack you for just saying that the drug didn't affect you negatively. I'd say some of these bastards have agendas. Many, have other reasons for their side effects but they automatically think Fin is to blame. Others, their side effects are just imaginary. And I can say this, if you are too concerned with your hair loss that alone can FUCK up your sex life. When you feel like shit about yourself it basically kills your sexual desire, and just about everything else.

So, if you're using Fin and you have sides, too bad. Just don't come here and tell all of us that we're screwing ourselves up. Don't come here and say BS like "it's a choice between our hair and our sex life". Also, ALL drugs can have side effects. If we were to judge a drug based on its possible side effect on a small minority of people all drugs would be banned.

[Notbaldyet]

if you're not sure what the truth is about propecia, take a trip to your local urologist BEFORE you start it. ask him if he would ever take the drug or give it to his son.

[PropeciaVictim]

if you're not sure what the truth is about propecia, take a trip to your local urologist BEFORE you start it. ask him if he would ever take the drug or give it to his son.

Your local urologist could very easily be wrong. My doctor admitted to being incorrect after I developed long-term side effects and the studies were published.

[VictimOfDHT]

screw the doctor. The doctor might be allergic to peanuts and he might die if he eats some but that doesn't mean I'll die too because HE is allergic to it. Like they say, you know yourself better than any one else including doctors, and I know Fin hasn't caused me any side effects sexual or otherwise. Case closed.

[VictimOfDHT]

And BTW, you people keep forgetting that Fin/Dut are prescibed for prostate problems all the time.

[Cristian]

screw the doctor. The doctor might be allergic to peanuts and he might die if he eats some but that doesn't mean I'll die too because HE is allergic to it. Like they say, you know yourself better than any one else including doctors, and I know Fin hasn't caused me any side effects sexual or otherwise. Case closed.


Finally someone with brains. I'm also taking finasteride for 5 months now, no side effects, and believe it or not, my sexual desire has stayed the same or has even enhanced. My girlfriend is just lucky that I'm not seeing her everyday :D

I really hate those pessimistic people with a negative vision on the drug.
the problem is:
1 person gets an extreme side-effect in the worst scenario. But people tend to forget that it's 1 person only. What happens, everybody who's afraid of the drug is spreading the rumour and story of this person. So this story is repeated a thousand times. And what I have learned in my experience with forums, just because a story is repeated 1000000000000.. or endless times, doesn't make it more true and doesn't mean that EVERY person will get the worst case scenario.

Just like VictimofDHT said: if someone is allergic to peanuts and dies, won't mean that others will die to. Every person reacts differently to propecia/finasteride. So if you're afraid of the side effects, then don't take it and accept your hair loss. And stop frightening the people who actually consider and WANT to fight their hair loss.

[PropeciaVictim]

Just like VictimofDHT said: if someone is allergic to peanuts and dies, won't mean that others will die to. Every person reacts differently to propecia/finasteride. So if you're afraid of the side effects, then don't take it and accept your hair loss. And stop frightening the people who actually consider and WANT to fight their hair loss.

This is idiotic and I imagine most quasi-intelligent people will disregard this statement. Nobody is saying everybody will get side effects, but are rather pushing for informed consent. When you visit a doctor, and they tell you there is 0% chance of developing side effects that is dangerous and borders on malpractice. If the patient is informed that the possibility of developing side effects are VERY REAL and not isolated to a single case, then it is their prerogative to determine whether or not they want the drug. If you are aware of the possible consequences of your actions and decide to go forward with taking the drug, then sadly the consequences are your problem alone.

[VictimOfDHT]

Cristian, ever seen an animal stampede ? One animal -in a herd- is scared of something and runs and the next minute a million other animals are spooked and they too start running. Well, it's the same thing with Fin. A SMALL number of users -YES, IT IS A SMALL NUMBER WHETHER THE FEAR MONGERERS LIKE IT OR NOT- experience some side effects -JUST LIKE WITH ANY OTHER GOD DAMN DRUG OUT THERE- and they start freaking out and they spook the rest of the "sheeple" who in turn spook even more sheeple. You'd be surprised how easy it is to do that. Yell the word "fire" in the middle of a crowd and watch how they start running in all directions even if they don't see any fire. Well, now the word "Finasteride" evoke the same reaction from people. Of course, Fin isn't a dangerous drug as we know but the fact that its side effects -IF they occur- might hit the area where most people are way too crazy about makes those side effect a trillion times worse -in the minds of people.That's the only reason why Fin gets all the bad rap. See, if its side effects were 100 worse or more dangerous than many drugs out there but they affected a different part of the body, you wouldn't hear all this shit about it and people would be more than happy to take it.




Propeciavictim, Look dude, you used the drug and you got side effects, or so you say. What are you trying to prove here ? I don't care if a million other people come and tell me they've had side effects.That still won't change my opinion BECAUSE IT DIDN'T HAPPEN TO ME AND THAT'S ALL THAT MATTERS. Of course it didn't happen to many many othes either.

[PropeciaVictim]

Propeciavictim, Look dude, you used the drug and you got side effects, or so you say. What are you trying to prove here ? I don't care if a million other people come and tell me they've had side effects.That still won't change my opinion BECAUSE IT DIDN'T HAPPEN TO ME AND THAT'S ALL THAT MATTERS.

If you look at the title of this thread, it will be clear how much you are missing the point. This thread is not about you and you are certainly not the only person in the universe. I just ask that you be a bit more thoughtful in your responses rather than going on off-point, unrelated rants that are not even correct.

[VictimOfDHT]

By the same measure you too ARE missing the point. This isn't about you either. For every one suffering "side effects" there are 10 who aren't. Fuck, even if the ratio is 50/50 that still doesn't prove your point. HARDLY ANY WOMAN WHO IS TAKING BIRTH CONTROL PILLS ISN'T AFFECTED ONE WAY OR ANOTHER BY SOME BAD AND EVEN DANGEROUS SIDE EFFECTS, yet you don't hear people bitching and complaining about it. The same goes for every single drug out there but again, no complaints. If Fin was bad for you, it wasn't for me, and for some it did good. Why should I not be allowed to use it because you say it was bad for you ? Does that really make sense ? Second, even if it were bad for me, isn't it my fucking choice ? Why don't you wanna understand this shit ? Men who use Viagra risk death or blindness yet not one mother fucker complains. Hmmmm!!! Again, you people are choosy about what you perceive as dangerous....That's all.

[PropeciaVictim]

By the same measure you too ARE missing the point. This isn't about you either.

Just out of curiosity, are you not a native English speaker? The title of the thread is Propecia Side Effects - Fact or Fiction? My personal example, where all signs point to Propecia causing irreversible side effects, sheds some serious insight into the topic of the thread. It seems very likely that the Propecia side effects exist. Your case, sheds no insight as you are representative of the norm. This is a discussion of the existence of side effects and not whether or not the drug is worth taking, as that is an entirely personal choice. Please go take an IQ test to make sure you are not severely damaged.

[t-bone]

We will only know in the future! I took it for years and did not like the side effects.Erectile dysfunction,mood swings & weight gain...NO THANKS!
There are natural remedies!People need to do more homework!

[VictimOfDHT]

Just out of curiosity, are you not a native English speaker? The title of the thread is Propecia Side Effects - Fact or Fiction? My personal example, where all signs point to Propecia causing irreversible side effects, sheds some serious insight into the topic of the thread. It seems very likely that the Propecia side effects exist. Your case, sheds no insight as you are representative of the norm. This is a discussion of the existence of side effects and not whether or not the drug is worth taking, as that is an entirely personal choice. Please go take an IQ test to make sure you are not severely damaged.

Blah blah blah blah. Go kill yourself then.

[VictimOfDHT]

Oh yeah, one more thing, out of curiosity, are you not a native English speaker ? This site isn't about Fin/Propecia or its side effects or people who claim to be affected by them. Maybe you've mistaken this for propeciahelp site. Go there and preach all you want.

[t-bone]

Dude,learn some manners!! I will send you some good energy!

You might want to get some sage and get rid of some of your negative energy.....

God Bless!

[gruaige]

We will only know in the future! I took it for years and did not like the side effects.Erectile dysfunction,mood swings & weight gain...NO THANKS!
There are natural remedies!People need to do more homework!

what natural remedies do you know of that work then?

[VictimOfDHT]

Dude,learn some manners!! I will send you some good energy!

You might want to get some sage and get rid of some of your negative energy.....

God Bless!

Are you talking to me ?

I have manners but if someone is rude to me then I'll be rude to them. This guy has nothing to say on here except propecia fucks you up...propecia kills your sex life, propecia makes you shorter, propecia causes cancer.....blah blah blah.

There are like a thousand threads on this. We don't need the same thing over and over again.

[UK_]

Dude,learn some manners!! I will send you some good energy!

You might want to get some sage and get rid of some of your negative energy.....

God Bless!

May the force be with us all.

[BackwardsBalding]

I can speak firsthand, I took a full dose of propecia for 6 months straight. The results, my hair was amazing! My sex life was down the tubes! I had the exact same problem many others had, I could not get an erection to save my life, I could care less about sex!

I stopped using propecia and after 14 days all of my problems immediately went away (it felt great to wake up with wood in the morning!) The down side is after many months my hair went to shit again :(

Now I am taking a half a dose a day for the last 3 months. No sexual side effects yet, waiting to see if the hair becomes great again (I am hopeful). Perhaps if I had stayed at a full dose the sides would have abated (I have heard this), but I had the sides for 6 weeks straight and could not take it anymore.

I think you might try just not ejaculating a while and see if it was just the side affect of not ejaculating that was allowing your hair to grow back. I have talked about this before and allthough nobody on this site believes me there are thousands of people elsewhere that have made this connection.

[Notbaldyet]

i put a couple of posts up about how merck has published data that has come up later to be not true. i just wanted to put this up so that people can see this for real

Fertility:

Merck related article from 1999:

J Urol. 1999 Oct;162(4):1295-300.
Chronic treatment with finasteride daily does not affect spermatogenesis or semen production in young men.
Overstreet JW, Fuh VL, Gould J, Howards SS, Lieber MM, Hellstrom W, Shapiro S, Carroll P, Corfman RS, Petrou S, Lewis R, Toth P, Shown T, Roy J, Jarow JP, Bonilla J, Jacobsen CA, Wang DZ, Kaufman KD.


Then, another article from 2007 which shows the reverse, that in fact chronic treatment DOES affect this, for at least up to six months later, and perhaps even a year later (although the numbers appear to reverse, but are still not back to completely normal):

J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2007 May;92(5):1659-65. Epub 2007 Feb 13.
The effect of 5alpha-reductase inhibition with dutasteride and finasteride on semen parameters and serum hormones in healthy men.
Amory JK, Wang C, Swerdloff RS, Anawalt BD, Matsumoto AM, Bremner WJ, Walker SE, Haberer LJ, Clark RV.
Source

Department of Medicine, Veterans Affairs-Puget Sound Health Care System, University of Washington, Seattle, WA 98195, USA.

So, here we are, with basically somehow Merck's original data being magically wonderful and independent research not corresponding to this.

Erectile dysfunction:

J Am Acad Dermatol. 1998 Oct;39(4 Pt 1):578-89.
Finasteride in the treatment of men with androgenetic alopecia. Finasteride Male Pattern Hair Loss Study Group.
Kaufman KD, Olsen EA, Whiting D, Savin R, DeVillez R, Bergfeld W, Price VH, Van Neste D, Roberts JL, Hordinsky M, Shapiro J, Binkowitz B, Gormley GJ.

Rate of side effects in this study: "side effects were minimal".


Then, here comes another article by another group:

Andrologia. 1998 Feb-Mar;30(1):5-10.
Erectile dysfunction following treatments of benign prostatic hyperplasia: a prospective study.
Uygur MC, Gür E, Arik AI, Altuğ U, Erol D.

Rate of side effects in this study? "At 3 months follow-up, finasteride caused loss of erectile functions in 8 of 36 potent patients (22%)" (gee, what happened to that 2% number?)


OK? This is the clear pattern -- one set of data by Merck, and another set of data by other researchers. conclusion? Merck's data somehow is not correct, and probably because they had motive to fudge it. period. finasteride is an anti androgen and it causes anti androgen related problems. these are not 'side effects', they are 'effects'. for any of the lawyers who are suing Merck currently, please feel free to use this as evidence.

[the_charger]

Your post makes no sense.. your quoting a very small study with no placebo control group? Because 8 patients of 36 had sexual problems, you conclude that all other propecia/finasteride studies were false and Merck was fudging the numbers? even if all 36 had sexual problems, it still wouldn't mean anything because the sample in this study is so small. Plus, they are studying older men who are taking the 5mg version, all of which have prostate problems (BPH). This is much different than a healthy guy in his 20's taking 1mg for MPB.

Its not possible for merck to fudge numbers, for the FDA trials especially. Also, there are dozens of other independent studies that Merck had no part in. almost all these studies show more or less 2% of people had sexual side effects!

You can always go through and cherry pick these tiny studies that show results that you want to see (see propeciahelp for MUCH more of this), but it doesnt change anything. All of the studies that were done properly conclude that side effect rates are very low. If a lawyer submitted what you posted as evidence, he would be laughed out of the court room.



Just as an example, I typed “finasteride sexual side effects” into google scholar and found this study on the first page:

http://archderm.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/140/7/857


This study was done in 2004, which is much more recent than yours. they conclude:

Our results support the clinical impression that sexual side effects are actually much less common than reported in clinical trials. The sexual function of all patients remained stable during treatment with 1 mg of finasteride.



This was done on young guys (average age of 23) with the 1mg version of propecia for MPB we all take, instead of the 5mg version in your study done on older guys with BPH. The study I show is still sort of weak, since there is no placebo control and it's only 186 patients. But its MUCH more powerful and relevant than the one you posted.

this is just the first study I clicked on. Type "finasteride" into google scholar and by all means read the studies. its all public! Pick the 10 largest studies you can find, crunch the numbers yourself and I bet you will see side effects in line with what Merck found during trials.

[Notbaldyet]

A systematic review reviews all previous trials and boils them down to find the best evidence. it is regarded as the highest for of evidence in medical literature:


Efficacy and safety of finasteride therapy for androgenetic alopecia: a systematic review.
Mella JM, Perret MC, Manzotti M, Catalano HN, Guyatt G.
Source
Department of Internal Medicine, Hospital Alemán, Avenue Pueyrredón 1640, CP 1118, CABA, Buenos Aires, Argentina. josemmella@hotmail.com
Abstract
CONTEXT:
Androgenetic alopecia is the most common form of alopecia in men.

OBJECTIVE:
To determine the efficacy and safety of finasteride therapy for patients with androgenetic alopecia.

DATA SOURCES:
MEDLINE, EMBASE, CINAHL, Cochrane Registers, and LILACS were searched for randomized controlled trials reported in any language that evaluated the efficacy and safety of finasteride therapy in comparison to treatment with placebo in adults with androgenetic alopecia.

STUDY SELECTION AND DATA EXTRACTION:
Two reviewers independently evaluated eligibility and collected the data, including assessment of methodological quality (Jadad score). Outcome measures included patient self-assessment, hair count, investigator clinical assessment, global photographic assessment, and adverse effects at short term (≤12 months) and long term (≥24 months). Heterogeneity was explored by testing a priori hypotheses.

DATA SYNTHESIS:
Twelve studies fulfilled the eligibility criteria (3927 male patients), 10 of which demonstrated a Jadad score of 3 or more. The proportion of patients reporting an improvement in scalp hair was greater with finasteride therapy than with placebo treatment in the short term (relative risk [RR], 1.81 [95% confidence interval (CI), 1.42-2.32]; I², 64%) and in the long term (RR, 1.71 [95% CI, 1.15-2.53]; I², 16%); both results were considered to have moderate-quality evidence. The number needed to treat for 1 patient to perceive himself as improved was 5.6 (95% CI, 4.6-7.0) in the short term and 3.4 (95% CI, 2.6-5.1) in the long term. Moderate-quality evidence suggested that finasteride therapy increased the mean hair count from baseline in comparison to placebo treatment, expressed as a percentage of the initial count in each individual, at short term (mean difference [MD], 9.42% [95% CI, 7.95%-10.90%]; I², 50%) and at long term (MD, 24.3% [95% CI, 17.92%-30.60%]; I², 0%). Also, the proportion of patients reported as improved by investigator assessment was greater in the short term (RR, 1.80 [95% CI, 1.43-2.26]; number needed to treat, 3.7 [95% CI, 3.2-4.3]; I², 82%) (moderate-quality evidence). Moderate-quality evidence suggested an increase in erectile dysfunction (RR, 2.22 [95% CI, 1.03-4.78]; I², 1%; number needed to harm, 82.1 [95% CI, 56-231]) and a possible increase in the risk of any sexual disturbances (RR, 1.39 [95% CI, 0.99-1.95]; I², 0%). The risk of discontinuing treatment because of sexual adverse effects was similar to that of placebo (RR, 0.88 [95% CI, 0.51-1.49]; I², 5%) (moderate-quality evidence).

CONCLUSION:
Moderate-quality evidence suggests that daily use of oral finasteride increases hair count and improves patient and investigator assessment of hair appearance, while increasing the risk of sexual dysfunction

[the_charger]

I'm still sort of confused what your point is though? Not trying to be mean at all, i'm just trying to find out where you are coming from.

If i'm reading that right, it says:

Erectile Dysfunction: 1.03-4.78%
Other sexual disturbances: 0.99-1.95%

Correct me if i'm wrong, since the results aren't very clear to me.

That is more or less in line with what Mercks studies found. If anything this just validates that the original FDA trials! Also ill have to say there isnt any mention that side effects didn't go away in people that discontinued treatment. This is from 2010 also, so it's fairly recent.

[Notbaldyet]

those are not percentages, they are odds ratios.

http://www.childrensmercy.org/stats/definitions/or.htm

[Ailouda]

Hi guys,
I want to go for Propecia. But the price for brand name Propecia is so expensive. When I checked the internet I saw something like generic propecia
http://www.4rx.com/online-pharmacy/categories/skin-hair/generic-propecia.html?affId=106750
for example. Do you guys use that Propecia? Is there any difference between those? Where to buy cheap Propecia?

[PropeciaVictim]

Its not possible for merck to fudge numbers, for the FDA trials especially.

This is not true. Merck can and did game their numbers for the FDA trials. This can take many shapes and forms such as altering research design, creating misleading or tweaked questionnaires for side effects, selecting a narrow non-random set of human guinea pigs for the trials, highlighting favorable outcomes and ignoring and not reported unfavorable outcomes. Lastly, they may simply lie but adjusting small figures that would be very difficult to notice unless one was looking for such behavior. For the last category, Merck took some patients who experienced prolonged side effects and hid them in the category for patients with side effects that did not come off the drug to make it appear as though the continuation of side effects were being caused by continued use of Propecia.

All of these biases are present in Propecia's clinical trials that are reported to patients by Merck. Merck is not the only pharmaceutical company that engages in such behavior, by a long shot, but I am not aware of too many other pharmaceutical companies that were willing to go the length of concealing fatal side effects (as was the case for Vioxx).




To be fair, Not Bald Yet, it is not very clear what you would like us to get out of the latter study you posted.

[MrRyan]

The thought of propecia is a very tempting one, but it just scares the hell out of me because i want to have kids soon hopefully, and there is no way i'd risk it even with the tiniest amount of risk it could do harm to my children, plus DHT is there for a reason and i don't want to mess with that, it is ridiculous this is our only option really.

Plus the people who are on propecia can't really say it doesn't affect them, because how would they know what there bodys would be like off propecia, i'm glad my doctor took me away from the idea now, but i do understand why people go on it, hair loss is a horrible thing to happen.

[JOE-91]

MrRyan, please stay away from Propecia. I would give anything to be normal again. I bic my head and i have never been happier with my appearance; have no trouble making lots of friends at university every week and attracting girls when i go out. I can't take advantage of that though because propecia has ruined my sex life.

You can find my older posts on here. I got hit with side effects every time i went on propecia (i went on and off about 5 times within a few months because i kept getting watery semen and no morning wood). I was actually encouraged into taking it on this website. It was the very last time i tried it for a few days that made me crash i believe. I stopped it because i was getting watery semen and a doctor warned me to not go anywhere near anti androgens.

[Zao]

MrRyan, please stay away from Propecia. I would give anything to be normal again. I bic my head and i have never been happier with my appearance; have no trouble making lots of friends at university every week and attracting girls when i go out. I can't take advantage of that though because propecia has ruined my sex life.

You can find my older posts on here. I got hit with side effects every time i went on propecia (i went on and off about 5 times within a few months because i kept getting watery semen and no morning wood). I was actually encouraged into taking it on this website. It was the very last time i tried it for a few days that made me crash i believe. I stopped it because i was getting watery semen and a doctor warned me to not go anywhere near anti androgens.

Joe-91, I was reading your posts from the beginning and you are a true example of how those propecia fear sites get into people’s heads. You basically willed yourself to get sides and as soon as you thought you were getting them you ran over to that site and now you are psychologically screwed. It’s self fulfilling prophecy that happens more often then people care to admit. I also remember most people here telling you to just keep your head shaved because you looked good that way.

[JOE-91]

I have been off that drug for 16 months. Are you saying that my brain could cause my penis to shrink? to stop nocturnal and morning erections? completely kill my libido?

I was completely sketching out about my side effects on the drug but it was nothing like this. I still had a sex drive and did no suffer from erectile dysfunction. I was also depressed about hair loss; and everything in the sexual department was fine apart from watery semen and loss of morning erections.

I suffered the 'post finasteride crash' that is well documented on that website. I don't need people like you to believe me. Doctors are now verifying that the condition is real.

[JOE-91]

I was worried about side effects because i was getting them on the drug. I had every right to be worried - but they were side effects which a lot of propecia users report: watery semen, ball ache, loss of morning wood. When you crash coming off the drug it is a whole different ball game.

[JOE-91]

I actually did not 'run over to that site' i never posted on that website when i was getting side effects ON the drug. I started posting on that site when the very serious issues began after quitting the drug.

Seriously, i really hope that you suffer the same one day.

[JOE-91]

It's annoying that you can't edit posts. Trust me, i know i was worrying a lot over my hair and the side effects on finasteride. I went on and off finasteride about 4 or 5 times because i had watery semen and testicle ache and everything returned to normal each and every time. It was the last time i tried it because hair loss was getting me down that cost me.

[Jcm800]

Fuck that, I'm tempted daily to try Fin, it's posts like you're that make me see sense.

[Jcm800]

Fuck that, I'm tempted daily to try Fin, it's posts like you're that make me see sense.

*yours, damn I see what you mean, I couldn't edit my post either just then.

[Zao]

Joe-91, I never said that you were not suffering and I don’t think it’s very nice to wish someone else to suffer. What I said was that after following your story, you were a prime candidate for the sides. Yes, I do believe that your mind can cause everything that you are describing. If it’s embedded into your subconscious your body will react. Kind of like a phobia or anxiety disorder. With phobias, even if you know intellectually that you should not be afraid or anxious about something, your body will react. Sexual performance anxiety and pre mature ejaculation are prime examples of this.

[JOE-91]

Joe-91, I never said that you were not suffering and I don’t think it’s very nice to wish someone else to suffer. What I said was that after following your story, you were a prime candidate for the sides. Yes, I do believe that your mind can cause everything that you are describing. If it’s embedded into your subconscious your body will react. Kind of like a phobia or anxiety disorder. With phobias, even if you know intellectually that you should not be afraid or anxious about something, your body will react. Sexual performance anxiety and pre mature ejaculation are prime examples of this.

Performance anxiety and premature ejaculation cannot be compared to this. I am well aware of how powerful the mind is when it comes to sex, and maybe if i were suffering from erectile dysfunction alone i would acknowledge suggestions that this could be in my head. However, i know for a fact that my mind does not have the capability to reduce the amount of ejaculate i produce and how watery it is; my mind cannot make me near infertile as confirmed by doctors. Before i touched finasteride and even when i was using finasteride, i would often have sex 5-8 times in one day with my girlfriend. Since i came off the drug i have to force myself to have sex with her when i would previously make advances anytime we were alone. When i am done i produce barely any ejaculate and it is completely clear. I am sorry about the detail - i am just trying to emphasize what the mind can and CANNOT do. It also cannot numb your penis.

If it makes you happy i will admit that my experience with finasteride and it's side effects have a silver lining. It has taught me a very hard lesson about vanity and even though i am/was rapidly balding at 20 i don't care anymore at all.

I know that most people on the hair loss forums probably think that the propeciahelp community is just a bunch of losers. I thought that when I saw Mew and other members popping up and warning everyone about the potential persistent side effects. This couldn't be further from the truth; i speak to a few guys from the UK and they are all very normal and actually surprisingly successful young men that have had a greatly important element of there life taken away.

[JOE-91]

Fuck that, I'm tempted daily to try Fin, it's posts like you're that make me see sense.

Sorry? are you saying that my posts are encouraging you to try finasteride?

To be fair, the chances of getting persistant side effects are probably very low. So if you want to try it, i doubt you have that much to worry about. Believe me, i cannot get my head around how this happens to anyone let alone myself. That little pill that i took from the internet when i was paranoid about my hair has completely changed my life.

The side effects ON the drug were perfectly tolerable; watery semen, minor ball ache, less morning erections - no big deal. But if you actually think about it, yeah there tolerable but seriously? i was cool with taking a drug that was altering my semen and making my balls ache? if you told most people that they would think you are fucking crazy. The hair loss forums messed with my mind and made me think that sort of shit was OK. I was desperate. I am not putting the blame on anyone else but myself but i was badly influenced.

I don't know what changed with my body for me to crash the very last time i took fin. As i previously mentioned, i went on and off the drug with no issues at all before. After 3 days off the drug i would feel some anxiety/ depression lift, my semen would become thick and white again, and my libido morning erections and fantasies would be raging. It must have been 3-4 weeks off the last run on fin when all hell broke loose. After i crashed were the scariest few weeks of my entire life.

Do you feel emabrassed or ashamed of your premature hair loss? try being bald and impotent at 20 years old.

[JOE-91]

I was quite depressed about hair loss when it first began; i started to lose motivation in my studies, i questioned whether i would get the type of job i wanted, the women i wanted, the lifestyle i wanted and so on. I am sure many of you have been there. These thoughts passed as time went on, i never had trouble attracting girls with a shaved head even with little confidence, the real issue was accepting balding and my new appearance myself - it was always going to take some time to accept and embrace.

How do you think it feels when i look back on that now? i am still studying, making friends often, meeting girls and from the outside seem perfectly normal and happy. But in truth, everyday i battle with suicidal thoughts and the only things that keep me going are the emotional pain i would inflict on my family if i were to take my own life and constantly reminding myself that there are people in far worse positions in life.

Seriously, someone should come up with a way to give balding men the sexual side effects of finasteride for 6-12 months. It has proven to be incredibly therapy in overcoming hair loss and vanity. It would be second from stem cell therapy in the quest for a cure.

[PropeciaVictim]

J You basically willed yourself to get sides and as soon as you thought you were getting them you ran over to that site and now you are psychologically screwed. It’s self fulfilling prophecy that happens more often then people care to admit.

You are unbelievable. Did you even take physiology 100 during your supposed education at NYU?

Psychological stress simply cannot cause physiological changes in the quality of semen that is stored in the epididymis and eliminate morning erections that are not tied to conscious situational anxieties you are describing.

You may have an argument if Joe was sporadically suffering from episodes of ED and had full fledged morning erections but lack of nocturnal and morning tumescence is the most basic indication that rules of psychogenic causes.

Stop repeating the same nonsense over and OVER and OVER again and address exactly how anxieties can alter the viscosity of your semen before you say anything else.

[Jcm800]

@JOE - no, your posts do not make me want to take Fin, it's too damn risky - more hair I lose the more I'm tempted tho. Posts like yours keep me off it, and open my eyes to the dangers.

[Hurts]

I was quite depressed about hair loss when it first began; i started to lose motivation in my studies, i questioned whether i would get the type of job i wanted, the women i wanted, the lifestyle i wanted and so on. I am sure many of you have been there. These thoughts passed as time went on, i never had trouble attracting girls with a shaved head even with little confidence, the real issue was accepting balding and my new appearance myself - it was always going to take some time to accept and embrace.

How do you think it feels when i look back on that now? i am still studying, making friends often, meeting girls and from the outside seem perfectly normal and happy. But in truth, everyday i battle with suicidal thoughts and the only things that keep me going are the emotional pain i would inflict on my family if i were to take my own life and constantly reminding myself that there are people in far worse positions in life.

Seriously, someone should come up with a way to give balding men the sexual side effects of finasteride for 6-12 months. It has proven to be incredibly therapy in overcoming hair loss and vanity. It would be second from stem cell therapy in the quest for a cure.


How BAD is your post-fin disorder? From your earlier posts you said your libido is well low along with some other things but it doesnt seem so bad that one should contemplate taking their life over it, at least thats the impression I got from the few posts of yours I read...

Did you "crash" 4 weeks after you stopped taking the drug?

[JOE-91]

I crashed weeks after taking the drug for a few days, yes. Although maybe things were going wrong from my stints on it in previous months. Lowered libido and erectile dysfunction are just the start of it. I assume i don't need to go into much detail but it really has done a number on my overall health. I am a fool for taking it in the first place. It was only after the damage was done that i found out eunuch's use it to chemically castrate themselves. That Merck have already been shown to be corrupt (vioxx case). It's also ironic that the last use of it made me crash which was when a doctor warned me against the use of anti androgens. I don't expect this to sink in with any of you on the drug, i know that when i was taking it and i suffered from apparently 'standard side effects' like watery semen and ball ache i didn't believe that permanent side effects were possible.

By the way, not all affected men are screaming about it on the internet, the few guys i speak to barely even post on propeciahelp. Many of us just want the lives that we knew back. I am not interested in any lawsuits; i purchased it off the internet anyway. If somebody told me that i would lose every hair on my head but i would get even 40% of my sexual functioning back, i would take it in a second.

[the_charger]

Seriously, i really hope that you suffer the same one day.

Wow, what a terrible thing to say. Just because he has a different opinion than you do? You're a pretty horrible person, and you lost all your credibility.

[PropeciaVictim]

Wow, what a terrible thing to say. Just because he has a different opinion than you do? You're a pretty horrible person, and you lost all your credibility.

I disagree, you seem very quick to attempt to delegitimize people if you have been offended by what they say.

Zao, currently and in the past, has conducted himself very poorly and abrasively and basically told Joe that the side effects are psychological, aka stemming from his own personality weakness, when in reality they exist and are not something he can control at this point.

If you can put yourself in Joe's shoes, he is very frustrated with a very debilitating problem that is compounded when people disregard his struggles as non-existent. It was not right for him to wish the same fate on Zao, but at the same time I don't think his outburst causes him to 'lose all credibility'.

Personally I do not wish these side effects on anybody, but I can sympathize with the act of getting very frustrated when others ignorantly discount their existence.

[UK_]

I disagree, you seem very quick to attempt to delegitimize people if you have been offended by what they say.

Zao, currently and in the past, has conducted himself very poorly and abrasively and basically told Joe that the side effects are psychological, aka stemming from his own personality weakness, when in reality they exist and are not something he can control at this point.

If you can put yourself in Joe's shoes, he is very frustrated with a very debilitating problem that is compounded when people disregard his struggles as non-existent. It was not right for him to wish the same fate on Zao, but at the same time I don't think his outburst causes him to 'lose all credibility'.

Personally I do not wish these side effects on anybody, but I can sympathize with the act of getting very frustrated when others ignorantly discount their existence.

You mentioned in a previous post about loss of sensitivity - is there anything that the doctors can do/have offered to do to help your situation?

[PropeciaVictim]

You mentioned in a previous post about loss of sensitivity - is there anything that the doctors can do/have offered to do to help your situation?

I have been frankly told by more than one doctor that there is nothing that can be done for me at this stage. The only hope is if some drug gets put on the market that can help regrow nerves but this type of drug is not even on the distant horizon. Sadly I have begun to accept this as a lifelong condition as it does not seem it will spontaneously recover on its own especially with no improvements after more than a year has elapsed.

[Hurts]

I have been frankly told by more than one doctor that there is nothing that can be done for me at this stage. The only hope is if some drug gets put on the market that can help regrow nerves but this type of drug is not even on the distant horizon. Sadly I have begun to accept this as a lifelong condition as it does not seem it will spontaneously recover on its own especially with no improvements after more than a year has elapsed.

How did your problem occur? Was it gradual or did it just happen out of the blue?

[UK_]

I have been frankly told by more than one doctor that there is nothing that can be done for me at this stage. The only hope is if some drug gets put on the market that can help regrow nerves but this type of drug is not even on the distant horizon. Sadly I have begun to accept this as a lifelong condition as it does not seem it will spontaneously recover on its own especially with no improvements after more than a year has elapsed.

The thing is nerves take long to heal, very long, I think the effects might take longer than a year to recover from - have you seen ANY improvement at all in your condition?

I think there must be something that fin does in shutting off DHT receptors in the penis when they have not been used for so long, but then again that "shut-off" can happen at any time on fin, 3 days or 10 years of use, its a crap shoot.

[UK_]

Something has obviously happened to the communication between the spine and the pudendal nerve, how DHT inhibition affects this is beyond my understanding, thinking of the nerve it would be near impossible to regenerate it without some sophisticated method that utilises the cells of your own penis, requiring something as revolutionary as the cure for baldness itself. I think they have successfully regenerated fully functioning penises in rabbits but not humans.

I have never taken Propecia but have always suffered from lack of sensitivity down there since an early age, you're not alone in this.

[PropeciaVictim]

How did your problem occur? Was it gradual or did it just happen out of the blue?

The problems basically occurred immediately. For the preceding week or two I believe I was beginning to wake up with the absence of morning erections but one day I literally was not able to not get an erection whatsoever. I did not freak out and decided to give it some time to see if my body would recover in coming weeks but after about 3 months I had to accept that this was an issue that was not going to reverse on its own.

[PropeciaVictim]

Something has obviously happened to the communication between the spine and the pudendal nerve, how DHT inhibition affects this is beyond my understanding, thinking of the nerve it would be near impossible to regenerate it without some sophisticated method that utilises the cells of your own penis, requiring something as revolutionary as the cure for baldness itself. I think they have successfully regenerated fully functioning penises in rabbits but not humans.

I have never taken Propecia but have always suffered from lack of sensitivity down there since an early age, you're not alone in this.

Unfortunately, I am afraid you may be right. I have not seen any general improvement over time. Occasionally, I will have a day where I function better than others, but this is the exception and I have not seen a general trend towards improvement.

Do you have any idea what may have caused your lack of sensitivity? Of course, multiple daily ejaculations can decrease sensation (which should regenerate after a day or two of inactivity) but the condition that PFS sufferers may face is possibly unique. Personally, I am insensitive to the touch, not just sexually. You can test this by using a tooth pick to gently prick your skin and ideally your penis should be more sensitive than the rest of your body not less. Additionally, there is some kind of orgasm dysfunction that I face. It is difficult to explain but the orgasm seems to start and stop a couple of times in the process. Kind of as though an engine tries to start up but never really succeeds.

[UK_]

Those symptoms are similar to mine, I found this article which shows responses to increased sensitivity from the use of Sildenafil Citrate:

http://www.ejhs.org/volume4/Moser/body.htm

My lack of sensation has always been around, I cant think of any possible cause however, no injury or anything.

[PropeciaVictim]

Those symptoms are similar to mine, I found this article which shows responses to increased sensitivity from the use of Sildenafil Citrate:

http://www.ejhs.org/volume4/Moser/body.htm

My lack of sensation has always been around, I cant think of any possible cause however, no injury or anything.

UK, I truly appreciate your sympathies and hearing about your experiences but I feel that the situation of PFS sufferers is quite different. For me, sildenafil helps me to achieve an erection but doesn't affect the lack of arousal, sensitivity, or libido issues in any way. This is consistent with other PFS suffers to my knowledge and in some cases the are not helped at all by viagra. How old are you out of curiosity?

What truly breaks my heart is that these doctors and Merck executives were very well aware of the risks they were imposing on their consumers but chose to disregard them to further their own careers, salaries, and prestige, all of which are entirely unnecessary luxuries.

For example, please take a look at Dr. Rassman's blog entry for today where he reported on Edwin Epstein's presentation from the recent ISHRS conference. Edwin Epstein was previously (possibly currently) on the Merck payroll as an advisor on some hair loss committee and the conference itself received platinum level sponsorship from Merck. According to Rassman's account of the presentation, it seems that Epstein blatantly lied when he said that "there are no case reports of sexual dysfunction that remained after finasteride was stopped in those patients who reported sexual side effects". Clearly, he is aware of and ignoring the Irwig study which presents a case series of 70 patients with irreversible sexual dysfunction and this is after excluding cases that are even slightly ambiguous. Moreover, there is a randomized Merck study for Proscar which showed some men had irreversible sexual dysfunction. This man appears to me to be profiting handsomely off the emasculation of innocent patients all the while making cruel jokes at our expense.

http://www.baldingblog.com/2011/09/26/2011-ishrs-meeting-review-part-5-finasteride/

[UK_]

Taking how complex an issue ED is, our issues are going to be different, I am 26 years of age.

There really is nothing out there that can restore sensitivity/arousal, I have searched and searched since an early age.

I read about Atala and his success with growing 'sensitive' penile tissue in rabbits that had a fully functioning nervous framework:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,573579,00.html

I know this procedure creates literally new born nervous connections within the glands and can repair/heighten sensation within the penis; I also know they are planning on offering this firstly to patients with "non-erect" forms of ED i.e. post-prostate cancer patients etc and then to a general public that wish to merely enhance what they have regardless of damage.

People call MPB a 'life affecting condition' - it is literally nothing compare to ED.

[Smega]

http://www.ted.com/talks/ben_goldacre_battling_bad_science.html

Insight into scientific conclusions within the media, as well as the manner in which clinical trials are conducted. Not specific to Mercek, but something to think about.

Personal story
- Bought proscar, never used it after reading about it online. Shaved my head instead. Will wait for replicel, histogen, or acell & the like. Propeciahelp, and ask patient are places I've looked into as references. I also heard about Mercek's past drug history - Vioxx. Google it. I'm not saying anything good or bad, but it's there to read.


I don't have anything too constructive to add to this conversation but I would like to warn those thinking about trying the drug.

Irrespective of the perceived percentages of those experiencing side effects, one must look into the premise behind finastride.

Those who sell it have a conflict of interest in omitting potentially relevant information. Self-report of many people on here are a great way to read about personal scenarios about the effects of fin. In my opinion, seeing more than one person who was more than healthy and sexually active turn into crashing with PFS, is quite alarming.


An analogy I'd like to use is drinking alchohol.

Purpose - to get drunk, lower social inhibitions, have a good time
Cost - not free
Regulation - Permitted, on and off throughout the years. Effects - not noted on labels.
Conclusion - Having a hangover is an effect of alchohol, despite people not wanting to have them. Some may call them side effects, but they're actually a direct effect of the contents of alchohol and its interaction with our systems.


Finastride
Purpose - In this context, to halt or prevent future hair loss
Cost - not free
Regulation - Permitted, with a warning of potential side effects. The derivation of such side effects may have been omitted in order to favour approvability.
Conclusion - Without studying the drug, reading about people's change in sex drive and libido, as well as any other symptom appear to be effects of the drug. Call it as you may, it's an effect.
The duration of such, or damage therein, is yet to be disclosed, but it should not be ignored. I hope this post will sweigh some into not using it if their only desire is to grow back hair in any way they can, hoping they may not have side effects. The drug has effects. Same like cocaine, or mdma. Government policy has long been on a spectrum, and just because your life is nice and dandy now doesn't mean you're not being taken advantage of in any facet of your life by those implementing policy. Ask yourself what would you do if you did end up with side effects that were troublesome to get rid of. Would you enjoy your life? Then go for it. Would it bother you? Then hold off. No money in the world will save you in that case. Make money by doing what you love. Put your heart and mind into something productive and the hair situation will eventually resolve itself. Wait for new technologies, or derive something yourself.
Make smart choices.



Afterthought

I don't know much about our bodies, but I can say that taking something for the rest of your life that's unnatural is probably not a good idea. I'd be happy to add more to this if anyone has any questions or arguments against it.


At the end of the day, I'll leave you with this. What's my agenda? Be healthy. Live life to the fullest, and be happy. Be in love, enjoy your youth, etc. Implicit in that is not be sick, unwell, whether its psychological, emotional, or physical.


What's the agenda of a drug company? Sell drugs. The cost of doing so in terms of harming other people is relatively unregulated. Maybe it's time to look up this company's corporate social responsibility and mission statement plans before deciding what to believe. Trust yourself, do your research. Many doctors do what they're told, and are as bad as any other person when it comes to conveying something. Who makes a better informed decision? A doctor reading a medical journal on finastride or speaking to 200 patients for 5 minutes, or a person researching everything about the drug for 2 hours a day for six months? Do you know what doctors would say if it turned out that finastride was dangerous? They'd say sorry, now we know. Or, we don't specialize in that field, we could not have known. For someone who knows so little, we sure do place a lot of weight in their statements of "taking the drug".

The internet is a wonderful thing. Be glad you have the chance to speak with others about anything you wish. When asking every person (doctor, pharmacist) about whether I can hold them accountable for their advice to take the drug, they said "whoa, no way. Do your own research."

If they're not accountable for you taking the drug, why should you be accoutable for listening to people who may not know enough about what they're talking about? Be accountable for your decisions by making informed choices. Think critically. You can be pretty powerful, research till you're content you have an idea about what it may or may not do. And when you make a decision, either way, stand by it.

[Smega]

I'd just like to add some insight into research tips.

Look at dutastride on wikipedia

Clinical trial results

Month 0-6 ( n = 2,167 ) [5]

Impotence: 4.7%
Decreased libido: 3%
Ejaculation disorders: 1.4%
Breast disorders: 0.5%

Month 7-12 ( n = 1,901 ) [5]

Impotence: 1.4%
Decreased libido: 0.3%
Ejaculation disorders: 0.5%
Breast disorders: 1.1%

Month 13-18 ( n = 1,725 ) [5]

Impotence: 1%
Decreased libido: 0.1%
Ejaculation disorders: 0.4%
Breast disorders: 0.8%

Month 19-24 ( n = 1,605 ) [5]

Impotence: 0.8%
Decreased libido: 0.3%
Ejaculation disorders: 0.1%
Breast disorders: 0.6%


I think n represents the number of patients in the study. As time goes on, less people have side effects. How can we interpret this? What other variable is changing? N is lowering. What is that? Probably the amount of participants in the study. What could this mean? The participants with persistant adverse effects could have withdrawn fom the study. That's about 700 people in two years, out of 2100. 30% of people stopped taking the drug during the study. That's something to think about. Again, I could be reading everything wrong, but it's something to think about.


Did you know that when I asked a pharmacist about finastride, he showed me his internal drug database that described impotence as occurring in (0.8-22.8 %) of people?

1/5? That's huge.
My hair transplant doctor said it's only 1 percent. But that sounds a but shady. One percent sounds good, but it could have been made that way on purpose.

That is all.

[PropeciaVictim]

Smega - Great post. I really wish I had access to your insight before I started taking Propecia but the controversies of the pharmaceutical industry were only something I read up on after facing damages from Finasteride.


UK - Thanks for the post. While the mouse experiments are a far cry from being able to cure PFS - my only true hope remains in the advent of some truly revolutionary treatment at this point in time.

[Smega]

Thanks. I was going back and fourth the past six months, and came up
with these viewpoints after thinking about what I really want in life,
and what the people I interact with want. I wouldn't have thought of
them without others posting about themselves, and without speaking to those selling the product.

Here are some vids that may help this kind of condition in the future:

5KdOPY1Iqiw

http://www.ted.com/talks/richard_res...evolution.html

[UK_]

UK - Thanks for the post. While the mouse experiments are a far cry from being able to cure PFS - my only true hope remains in the advent of some truly revolutionary treatment at this point in time.

PropeciaVictim, are loss of sensitivity/libido your only symptoms? Do you have any other symptoms? e.g. muscle loss, low body temp etc?

[PropeciaVictim]

PropeciaVictim, are loss of sensitivity/libido your only symptoms? Do you have any other symptoms? e.g. muscle loss, low body temp etc?

I have had some tissue changes in my penis and dysfunctional orgasm sensation in addition to very watery and liquid semen (kind of like that of a pre-teen).

The drug can also have an effect on cognition/judgment/moods which severely impacted me for several months after taking the drug. I had panic attacks for months after taking the drug and it wasn't until it had subsided and I read other case reports of similar stories that I realized Propecia caused those side effects. There are possibly some other subtle effects the drug has had on me to this point but the persistent effects have mainly been sexual dysfunction that runs the whole spectrum.

Honestly, if the mental side effects persisted indefinitely it would have been nearly impossible function in society. I didn't feel remotely like myself during this period and I was becoming more and more isolated on a daily basis.

[seattle30]

Dr Irwin Goldstein the Editor-in-Chief of the Journal of Sexual Medicine wrote in the Journal in July, "I think of the frequent phone calls I receive from distressed men with varying degrees of hair loss who have used 5 alpha reductase inhibitors and now have newly manifested sexual and cognitive complaints that often persist despite discontinuation of the 5 alpha reductase inhibitor. Often such 5 alpha reductase inhibitor users have sought help only to be belittled, betrayed, misdirected, and sometimes misinformed. In general, these patients feel deceived becuase of the lack of information warning them of the potential side effects."

[PayDay]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21980923

J Dermatol. 2011 Oct 10. doi: 10.1111/j.1346-8138.2011.01378.x. [Epub ahead of print]
Evaluation of efficacy and safety of finasteride 1 mg in 3177 Japanese men with androgenetic alopecia.
Sato A, Takeda A.
Source
Tokyo Memorial Clinic Hirayama Department of Plastic and Aesthetic Surgery, School of Medicine, Kitasato University, Tokyo, Japan.
Abstract
Before now, there has been no study of finasteride use exceeding 1 year in Japanese men with androgenetic alopecia (AGA) except the study subsequently conducted from the development phase. Since the launch of finasteride, no study in a larger population had been reported. Ethnic variation of the onset age, progressive nature and degree of hair loss of androgenetic alopecia are known. The therapeutic effect of oral finasteride (Propecia) was examined on androgenetic alopecia of Japanese men. The efficacy and safety of finasteride (1 mg tablet) was evaluated in Japanese men with AGA in the long term. The study enrolled 3177 men given finasteride 1 mg/day from January 2006 to June 2009 at our clinic. Efficacy was evaluated in 2561 men by the modified global photographic assessment; the photographs were assessed using the standardized 7-point rating scale. Safety data were assessed by interviews and laboratory tests in all men enrolled in the study. The overall effect of hair growth was seen in 2230 of 2561 men (87.1%), in whom hair greatly (11.1%), moderately (36.5%) and slightly (39.5%) increased. The response rate improved with increasing duration of treatment. Adverse reactions occurred in 0.7% (23/3177) of men; seven men discontinued treatment based on risk-benefit considerations. No specific safety problems associated with long-term use were observed. This study represents data collected at a single institution. Many patients did not receive follow-up examination. In Japanese men with AGA, oral finasteride used in the long-term study maintained progressive hair regrowth without recognized side-effect.

© 2011 Japanese Dermatological Association.

[SBTRKT]

Finasteride has been shown to block or drastically reduce levels of allopregnanolone in numerous studies:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0006899302022904

http://joe.endocrinology-journals.org/content/208/3/301.abstract

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21914008

Well, guess what genetic abnormality has just been found in MS patients?

"Multiple sclerosis patients enrolled in a study were found to have a genetic abnormality that leads to reduce brain levels of a specific neurosteroid called allopregnanolone, according to an international research team."

"Previous studies have shown that neurosteroids play a key role in some brain functions as well as repair."

I assume that everyone know MS is a truly horrible illness and that sufferers often have erectile dysfunction and low sex drive.

The evidence that has mounted up against finasteride this year is mind blowing!

[SBTRKT]

Here is the link *SORRY*

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/health/new-health/paul-taylor/genetic-abnormality-found-in-ms-patients/article2176500/

[UK_]

To the previous poster:

"Finasteride also hinders various neuro steroids such as Allopregnanolone which plays a role in the human brain, Allopregnolone is a part of the body's natural defense against cognitive deficits. There is still a lot we have to learn about Finasterides effects on the human body and brain, Finasteride is a relatively young drug. See attached photos and literature".

Thanks for that.

[UK_]

"Finasteride also hinders various neuro steroids such as Allopregnanolone which plays a role in the human brain, Allopregnolone is a part of the body's natural defense against cognitive deficits. There is still a lot we have to learn about Finasterides effects on the human body and brain, Finasteride is a relatively young drug. See attached photos and literature".

They're developing a new drug based on the findings outlined in the article you posted - I think there may be a link between the protective effect of allopregnanolone and other neuro steroids and nerve cells at the spinal cord [numbness occurs at penis AND scrotum]. Somehow a lack in these particular steroids causes nerve cells to become damaged and unable to be repaired due to a lack of those such hormones.

Thanks for that.

[UK_]

To the previous post:

"Finasteride also hinders various neuro steroids such as Allopregnanolone which plays a role in the human brain, Allopregnolone is a part of the body's natural defense against cognitive deficits. There is still a lot we have to learn about Finasterides effects on the human body and brain, Finasteride is a relatively young drug. See attached photos and literature".

...

They're developing a new drug based on the findings outlined in the article you posted - I think there may be a link between the protective effect of allopregnanolone and other neuro steroids and nerve cells at the spinal cord [numbness occurs at penis AND scrotum]. Somehow a lack in these particular steroids causes nerve cells to become damaged and unable to be repaired due to a lack of those such hormones.

Thanks for that.

[UK_]

To the previous post:

"Finasteride also hinders various neuro steroids such as Allopregnanolone which plays a role in the human brain, Allopregnolone is a part of the body's natural defense against cognitive deficits. There is still a lot we have to learn about Finasterides effects on the human body and brain, Finasteride is a relatively young drug. See attached photos and literature".

...

They're developing a new drug based on the findings outlined in the article you posted - I think there may be a link between the protective effect of allopregnanolone and other neuro steroids and nerve cells at the spinal cord [numbness occurs at penis AND scrotum]. Somehow a lack in these particular steroids causes nerve cells to become damaged and unable to be repaired.

Thanks for that.

[SBTRKT]

I hope that new drug is out soon. I can't feel my penis, scrotum and sometimes even my arse so it would be worth a try for me.

[UK_]

Also found this:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3106171/

Apparently they had success of restoring nerve function in the penis through the use of muscle-derived stem cells - if nerve function AND libido can be restored I guess that takes care of the 'sexual side' aspect of PFS.

I have no problems in achieving erection I just can't feel the skin or glans - it's always been like this and I have never touched finasteride, no problems with libido also, it's just hell having high libido yet not the pleasure to [I]truly satisfy the hunger.

[UK_]

Smega - Great post. I really wish I had access to your insight before I started taking Propecia but the controversies of the pharmaceutical industry were only something I read up on after facing damages from Finasteride.


UK - Thanks for the post. While the mouse experiments are a far cry from being able to cure PFS - my only true hope remains in the advent of some truly revolutionary treatment at this point in time.

There is also this, but it is for spinal cord injuries -

http://www.raelpress.org/news.php?item.136.1

If you could give me some more info on this and your opinion that'd be highly appreciated.

[UK_]

I cant seem to find any more information on the part about restoring penile sensitivity - whether or not it's bull**** I dont know.

[seattle30]

Good article on persistent propecia side effects in the December issue of Men's Health with Ashton Kutcher on the cover. Below is an excerpt from the article.

"The percentage of affected men may be small," acknowledges Traish, a researcher in the biochemistry and urology departments at Boston University's school of medicine, "but our research definitely concludes that PFS is for real."

[the_charger]

"The percentage of affected men may be small," acknowledges Traish, a researcher in the biochemistry and urology departments at Boston University's school of medicine, "but our research definitely concludes that PFS is for real."

if ive learned anything from being weary of statements made in magazines and by media, its that sources should always be checked closely. Magazines espectially really tend to pull things out of context. I recall that Dr. Traish was part of a study lead by Dr. Irwig, which was discussed by spencer quite a few months back. This study was done on around 100 guys that came forward themselves to recant their stories about their conditions. These men came to them saying they had PFS, but they werent found as a result of any controlled testing environment.

basically all they had were 100 guys that had these symptoms and took propecia for however long. I dont think their blood was even tested, and they were simply interviewed. I dont know how Dr. Traish determined without a doubt that PFS is real, and these side effects resulted from these guys using Propecia. It was just his hypothesis, and their studies were all done to try to conclude this hypothesis. Extremely biased, and extremely bad science.

[seattle30]

I believe that is wrong with regard to Dr. Traish being part of a study led by Dr Irwig Charger. Dr Traish and several other doctors authored a seperate paper in the Journal Sexual Medicine titled Adverse Side Effects of 5a-Reductase Therapy: Persistent Diminished Libido and Erectile Dysfunction and Depression in a subset of Patients.

I don't think the author of the Mens Health article took Dr. Traish out of context, he was quoted in a WebMD article saying something very similar, "We don’t really understand why, but the symptoms remain persistent or irreversible and even if they get off the drug,” says study researcher Abdulmaged M. Traish, PhD, a professor of biochemistry at the Boston University School of Medicine. “They no longer regain what they had before. Biologically, something gets shut off and gets shut off once and for all.”

If you purchase the paper in the Journal of Sexual Medicine on Wiley at the end it talks about how the adverse effects of 5a-Reductase inhibitors are persistent in some patients. You can also listen to him talk about this briefly here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZqDkI37CcU.

[PropeciaVictim]

I recall that Dr. Traish was part of a study lead by Dr. Irwig, which was discussed by spencer quite a few months back. This study was done on around 100 guys that came forward themselves to recant their stories about their conditions.
I dont know how Dr. Traish determined without a doubt that PFS is real, and these side effects resulted from these guys using Propecia. It was just his hypothesis, and their studies were all done to try to conclude this hypothesis. Extremely biased, and extremely bad science.

You are entirely wrong. Dr. Traish was not part of the study lead by Dr. Irwig. Dr. Irwig conducted the study entirely alone but had a fellow help prepare the data and present the numbers in writing. As an aside, you also used the word recant incorrectly which means something close to the opposite of what you were trying to say.

Dr. Traish concluded that PFS was real by personally seeing patients that have visited him at BU. The Irwig paper was not a controlled clinical experiment that had the intention of testing whether or not the condition existed but was rather to describe and publish an article summarizing the effects that certain sufferers had presented. It is wrong to call the publication 'biased and bad science' as it is an initial stage in researching a medical condition.

More studies are forthcoming which will definitively prove your beliefs to be incorrect.

[skinontop]

You are entirely wrong. Dr. Traish was not part of the study lead by Dr. Irwig. Dr. Irwig conducted the study entirely alone but had a fellow help prepare the data and present the numbers in writing. As an aside, you also used the word recant incorrectly which means something close to the opposite of what you were trying to say.

Dr. Traish concluded that PFS was real by personally seeing patients that have visited him at BU. The Irwig paper was not a controlled clinical experiment that had the intention of testing whether or not the condition existed but was rather to describe and publish an article summarizing the effects that certain sufferers had presented. It is wrong to call the publication 'biased and bad science' as it is an initial stage in researching a medical condition.

More studies are forthcoming which will definitively prove your beliefs to be incorrect.
sorry for my English ,,but i have to agree with y coz many doctors in my country they told me about many bad story from clients taking the fin ( it does change your body ..fizic and psihic, what is so sad many of them they dont like it to see the truth and they just accept the fapt they wake up every morning without any erection and keep few hair for just another day...
hope y are ok now...wish y good luck!!

[the_charger]

You are entirely wrong. Dr. Traish was not part of the study lead by Dr. Irwig. Dr. Irwig conducted the study entirely alone but had a fellow help prepare the data and present the numbers in writing. As an aside, you also used the word recant incorrectly which means something close to the opposite of what you were trying to say.

Dr. Traish concluded that PFS was real by personally seeing patients that have visited him at BU. The Irwig paper was not a controlled clinical experiment that had the intention of testing whether or not the condition existed but was rather to describe and publish an article summarizing the effects that certain sufferers had presented. It is wrong to call the publication 'biased and bad science' as it is an initial stage in researching a medical condition.

More studies are forthcoming which will definitively prove your beliefs to be incorrect.

Hi Propeciavictim. You say Dr. Traish concluded that PFS was real by seeing patients that showed the symptoms? So if a man walked in there with sexual dysfunction and he had taken Propecia at some time in his life, Dr. Traish would conclude he has PFS? What type of criteria did he use to determine that these men had problems that were CAUSED by Propecia? All im saying is that its just a hypothesis that Propecia caused the problems.

I have heard people say this for a long, long time, that new studies are coming to prove us all wrong. I wont believe it until I see it. I read over a year ago when I started losing my hair, a guy on a message board was saying there were big studies just around the corner. its been a year, and still nothing. If you have some insider information about some groundbreaking discoveries that have been made, I would love to be proven wrong......

Also so you know, english is not my first language, dont always assume everyone has the same level of education that you do. I would appreciate you not nitpicking grammar.

[J_B_Davis]

You can't believe much of what you read in magazines like mens health or even on the news. Articles are written to sell magazines and sometimes the truth is not as important as the "story".

[seattle30]

If you read the paper Adverse Side Effects of 5a-Reductase Therapy: Persistent Diminished Libido and Erectile Dysfuntion and Depression in a Subset of Patients in the Journal of Sexual Medicine, Dr Traish and collegues offer some possible underlying biological mechanisms of why pfs may be occuring. It does say at the end of the paper that in some patients the side effects of 5a-Reductase Inhibitor therapy are persistent. I assume he came to the conclusion through the extensive research he has done on the drug.

I'm not aware of any big study just around the corner, but within the paper mentioned above(and the Men's Health article) the study led by Dr. Hunter Wessells which was published in the Journal of Urology is mentioned. Within this study only 50% of patients experienced resolution of their sexual adverse side effects 6 months(this duration of time was only reported in Men's Health, and it does not mention time duration in the Traish paper) after stopping fin.

[UK_]

http://stemcellrevolution.com/treatment-programs/urology/erectile-dysfunction/

Anyone any info?

[kramer]

So, do the older men who have never taken propecia/finesteride never lose their sex drives or ability to get erections?